I thought I was hot stuff when I created some .277 Wolverine cases 😂. This is really interesting stuff. I’m glad there are people like you two out there innovating and driving the industry forward.
Great video. While I will likely never wildcat, I do appreciate the education and it gave me some insights on the AMP annealer that I didn't know. What I really appreciate is the fact that the AMP annealer process is backed up by actual metallurgical testing as opposed to the guessing game of visual appearance or temperature/time relationships. I also appreciate your outstanding customer service even responding to an email question on a weekend and after hours. Wonderful people, company, and product.
That "wildcat" has a bullet diameter less than half the inside diameter of the "parent case". Meaning the powder burning pushes "out" on the case and neck walls more than on the base of the bullet. Meaning its a "diminishing returns" situation particularly with the much higher cost of "proprietary" .50 BMG primers. In the U.S. they run $.50 apiece minimum and the only "supplier" is CCI. About the same cost as once-fired "mil surp" Lake City brass and "pulldown" .50 BMG 650-grain FMJ bullets. "Pulldown" Winchester 872 powder from 20mm Vulcan cartridges is as cheap as $10 per pound delivered. With proper annealing and sensible load levels brass will last 15-20 cycles. Using components I "hoarded" 10 years ago I can reload .50 for well under $1.50 per round after the brass is "paid for". It's absolutely fucking ridiculous to waste .50 brass and primers and 3/4 of a .50 powder charge to fire .375 caliber bullets with far less "efficiency" and "cost effectiveness" and way more "investment" than is required for any of several .375 "super magnum" cartridges available "commercially" in the U.S. As for .416 Barrett it's simply a .50 BMG "wildcat" using necked down .50 BMG cases and was the "loophole" Barrett came up with when California banned .50 BMG rifles. It has no "ballistic" advantages whatsoever and is not more "cost effective" to load because mil-surp FMJ bullets and "match" bullets are not available "over the counter". The smaller base diameter and steeper shoulder angle also make it less efficient at turning case pressure into muzzle energy. And you end up with a heavier rifle overall using a .50 BMG barrel "blank" only drilled for a .416 bullet so less barrel steel is "lost". .50 BMG 650-grain FMJ bullets also have a "perfect" 1.000 BC since the BC "math" was developed using that bullet as the "perfect" projectile "ballistically". Hornady .50 BMG 750-grain A-Max bullets are "better than perfect" with a 1.020 BC because they are not handicapped by being FMJ and steel-cored to be Hague Conventions compliant. This "wildcat" is roughly equivalent to a .22-caliber .30-06-based "wildcat" with the case actually necked down to .224 instead of the sabot "Accelerator" .308-caliber "conversions". And just as idiotic. Actually moreso since there is no price difference between small rifle primers and large rifle primers and .224-caliber bullets are enough cheaper than .308s to more than offset powder cost increase. Which isn't HUGE to begin with since .22 "magnum" centerfire cartridges like .22-250 Remington and .220 Swift use nearly as much powder as .30-06 Springfield. Guaranteed Remington .375 Ultra Mag will "outperform" that ridiculous "Hammer" any way you slice it "all else being equal".
All great points and as interesting as the video itself. I did enjoy the video and observing the process and thought; "DANG, that's way more trouble than it's worth." Your comment shows WHY my thought was valid. Just because one CAN do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Awesome - just awesome. But one Question. The thickness of the shoulder ist much thicker as the neck. Is it not to hard if you want to reset the brass after fire forming? Is the 4077 a resault of AZTEC?
I've been wanting to size a smaller cartridge up to a larger size. Specifically a 7.62x39 Russian to hold a 10mm Auto bullet. I was thinking of trimming off the crimp portion at øH1, reaming the case and resizing the mouth to hold the 10mm auto (.400 inch or 10.17mm) bullet. It would retain some of the taper of the original while shortening the case to about 33mm in length but still keeping enough case capacity to have good power. Effectively creating an autoloading 10mm Carbine Magnum that could be fired from a rebarreled SKS, AK pattern rifle or any number of bolt guns or even a lever gun if you used flat nosed bullets. Is that even doable? Can you go up that much? There is good quality brass available from Hornady.
To answer your question...yes you can. Look at the 45 raptor for example its a standard 308win necked up to 45cal. Think 300 blackout on meth and steroids lol Also look at the 9.3x39. You can find factory ammo for it
@@kirkmartin2223 .300 Blackout doesn't have a bit more "power" than 5.56x45 and .45 Raptor not a bit more than .308 Winchester and the ballistics of each for "hunting" are fucking horrible. There also isn't a much stupider "hunting rifle" than an AR in a molasses slow whacked off and necked up .223 case with a large rifle bullet and small rifle primer in it for a BLAZING 2100 fps max AND that weighs every bit of 8 lbs once you get a decent hunting "optic" on it and has the WORST TRIGGER EVER DESIGNED FOR "ACCURACY" AND ONE YOU CANNOT MAKE "GOOD" BUT ONLY A LITTLE "LESS BAD" UNLESS AND UNTIL YOU TOSS THE FACTORY AR "FIRE CONTROL SYSTEM" AND DROP IN A $100-$250 TRIGGER ASSEMBLY THAT BETTER BE THE $250 OPTION AND A TIMNEY 3-LB COMP IF YOU WANT TRIGGER "PULL" ANYWHERE NEAR WHAT EVERY REAL AMERICAN "DEER RIFLE" MADE SINCE THE AR WAS "DEVELOPED" HAS FROM THE FACTORY WHETHER IT'S A $250 RIFLE OR A $2500 RIFLE. EXCEPT MAYBE A "BIG-BLOCK" AR LIKE AN LR308, AR10, SR10 OR PSA10 IN A WHACKED OFF .308 BLOWN OUT TO .452 CARTRIDGE LOADED WITH FLAT-BASE HANDGUN OR STRAIGHT-WALL RIFLE CASE BULLETS THAT REQUIRE AN "EXTRA STEP" OF CASE MOUTH EXPANSION TO SEAT THE BULLETS AND THEN ANOTHER "EXTRA STEP" TO CRIMP THEM IF THE CRIMPER ISN'T INTEGRATED INTO THE SEATING DIE. ALL THAT BULLSHIT TO GET A 5-ROUND .45-CALIBER SEMI-AUTO "HUNTING RIFLE" THAT'S GONNA WEIGH 12 POUNDS IF IT WEIGHS AN OUNCE SINCE MY LR308 ORACLE 16" "CARBINE" WITH A FREE-FLOAT TUBE, TIMNEY TRIGGER, NO "TACTICAL" BULLSHIT OF ANY KIND, A NIKON AR223 ONE-PIECE SCOPE MOUNT ON THE "FLAT TOP" UPPER WITH INTEGRAL "RAIL" AND A PRETTY "LIGHT" LEUPOLD MARK AR 4-14X40 SCOPE AND 5 ROUNDS OF 308 IN A MAGPUL MAG IS 12 POUNDS ALL FUCKING DAY. KICK-ASS RIFLE - .75 MOA WITH CHEAP 150 FMJ AMMO AND I PUT 50 ROUNDS "DOWNRANGE" ON AFTERNOON AT A LEGIT LASERED 450 YARDS PER MY "SPOTTER" WHILE TRYING TO GET A PRAIRIE DOG AT "400 PLUS" LIKE EVERY "PRAIRIE DOG HUNTER" I'VE EVER KNOWN OR HEARD BUT NEVER SAW SHOOT CLAIMS HE DID/DOES "ALL THE TIME" SO I COULD BE ONE OF THE "COOL KIDS" TOO AND DAMNED IF I DIDN'T GET "ON" THEM AND STAY "ON" THEM THE WHOLE TIME KICKING DUST AND GRAVEL UP ALL AROUND THEM AND WITHIN INCHES 90% OF THE TIME BUT I JUST COULDN'T "CONNECT". AND ONCE DPMS AND I GOT A LITTLE SHORT-STROKING ISSUE WORKED OUT IT RAN LIKE A SEWING MACHINE AND HIT LIKE A HAMMER AND FELT LIKE AN "AR" AND A REAL RIFLE AT THE SAME TIME. IT'S JUST THE FACT THAT IT'S EVERY BIT AS HEAVY AND NOWHERE NEAR AS HANDY AND TOUGH AND "BULLETPROOF" AS MY "FRANKENGUN" NORINCO M1A I REBARRELED WITH A REAL-DEAL MIL-SURP M14 NATIONAL MATCH BARREL AND PUT A MIL-SURP GAS SYSTEM, FRONT SIGHT, G.I. FIBERGLASS STOCK WITH N.O.S. "STEEL" ON IT AND A N.O.S. G.I. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY BOLT IN WITH A STEEL 20-ROUND BOX FULL OF 150 FMJ AND WAS A $1700 "BUILD" WHILE I TRADED A GUN BUDDY AND FELLOW AR "BUILDER" A COUPLE HUNDRED BUCKS IN "UNOBTAINIUM" AR PARTS DURING THE OBAMA GUN/AMMO "SHORTAGE" ACT II FOR THE M1A THAT PROVES HOW STUPID ANYONE HAS TO BE TO WANT A "BIG-BLOCK AR" THAT'S NO MORE "POWERFUL" AND HAS NO MORE "FIREPOWER" AND IS GONNA BE 3 TIMES THE MONEY AND CLOSE.TO DOUBLE THE WEIGHT OF ANY LEVER GUN IN .30-30 OR .35 REMINGTON OR .45-70 GOVT IF YOU WANT A "BIG-BORE" FOR "HUNTING".
Great stuff, I habe the mark II and am planing to make a 7mm WSM out of either a 270wsm or a 300 wsm. Do i need special codes or just generate an aztec code before and after? Would you recommend to neck up from 270wsm or down from the 300wsm? Thanks!!
@@tobiastorsi Either way should be ok. We have not tested that specific case ourselves and this video was our first experience with forming wild cats so you may have to experiment.
Thanks for the video, im just getting into wildcat rounds and the amp machine makes it look so easy. I will definitely be buying one of your machines when i finish school. What brand are the forming dies?
Hi Trevor, The dies are actually custom made by a gunsmith who works for our Australian distributor BRT Shooter Supplies. You might want to contact them for more information. You can see their website on our "Buy Now" tab of our website under Distributors.
Could you not just trim to like 3.1" before you ever turn on the machine or are bushings at whatever diameter that is unavailable? I don't see the point in heating brass that you are going to trim off later.
I thought I was hot stuff when I created some .277 Wolverine cases 😂. This is really interesting stuff. I’m glad there are people like you two out there innovating and driving the industry forward.
Great video. While I will likely never wildcat, I do appreciate the education and it gave me some insights on the AMP annealer that I didn't know. What I really appreciate is the fact that the AMP annealer process is backed up by actual metallurgical testing as opposed to the guessing game of visual appearance or temperature/time relationships. I also appreciate your outstanding customer service even responding to an email question on a weekend and after hours. Wonderful people, company, and product.
That "wildcat" has a bullet diameter less than half the inside diameter of the "parent case". Meaning the powder burning pushes "out" on the case and neck walls more than on the base of the bullet. Meaning its a "diminishing returns" situation particularly with the much higher cost of "proprietary" .50 BMG primers. In the U.S. they run $.50 apiece minimum and the only "supplier" is CCI. About the same cost as once-fired "mil surp" Lake City brass and "pulldown" .50 BMG 650-grain FMJ bullets. "Pulldown" Winchester 872 powder from 20mm Vulcan cartridges is as cheap as $10 per pound delivered. With proper annealing and sensible load levels brass will last 15-20 cycles. Using components I "hoarded" 10 years ago I can reload .50 for well under $1.50 per round after the brass is "paid for".
It's absolutely fucking ridiculous to waste .50 brass and primers and 3/4 of a .50 powder charge to fire .375 caliber bullets with far less "efficiency" and "cost effectiveness" and way more "investment" than is required for any of several .375 "super magnum" cartridges available "commercially" in the U.S.
As for .416 Barrett it's simply a .50 BMG "wildcat" using necked down .50 BMG cases and was the "loophole" Barrett came up with when California banned .50 BMG rifles.
It has no "ballistic" advantages whatsoever and is not more "cost effective" to load because mil-surp FMJ bullets and "match" bullets are not available "over the counter". The smaller base diameter and steeper shoulder angle also make it less efficient at turning case pressure into muzzle energy.
And you end up with a heavier rifle overall using a .50 BMG barrel "blank" only drilled for a .416 bullet so less barrel steel is "lost". .50 BMG 650-grain FMJ bullets also have a "perfect" 1.000 BC since the BC "math" was developed using that bullet as the "perfect" projectile "ballistically".
Hornady .50 BMG 750-grain A-Max bullets are "better than perfect" with a 1.020 BC because they are not handicapped by being FMJ and steel-cored to be Hague Conventions compliant.
This "wildcat" is roughly equivalent to a .22-caliber .30-06-based "wildcat" with the case actually necked down to .224 instead of the sabot "Accelerator" .308-caliber "conversions".
And just as idiotic. Actually moreso since there is no price difference between small rifle primers and large rifle primers and .224-caliber bullets are enough cheaper than .308s to more than offset powder cost increase. Which isn't HUGE to begin with since .22 "magnum" centerfire cartridges like .22-250 Remington and .220 Swift use nearly as much powder as .30-06 Springfield.
Guaranteed Remington .375 Ultra Mag will "outperform" that ridiculous "Hammer" any way you slice it "all else being equal".
All great points and as interesting as the video itself. I did enjoy the video and observing the process and thought; "DANG, that's way more trouble than it's worth." Your comment shows WHY my thought was valid. Just because one CAN do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Excellent video! Very informative!
how does the machine understand how much it needs to anneal? is there an infrared sensor, or is the induction field being measured?
Wow. What patience and attention to process.
How do you arrive at the "additional" power numbers? What do those number mean? Is it a time in seconds, or is it power+time, or what? Just curious.
Awesome - just awesome. But one Question. The thickness of the shoulder ist much thicker as the neck. Is it not to hard if you want to reset the brass after fire forming? Is the 4077 a resault of AZTEC?
Why does that cartrage exist?
Excellent video !!!
Great video! The lathe that you have in the background.... Who makes it?
Thanking you!
Here is a link to it. www.stuermer-machines.com/brands/optimum/category/product/optimum-lathes-conventional/optiturn-tu-2304-3420320/
I've been wanting to size a smaller cartridge up to a larger size. Specifically a 7.62x39 Russian to hold a 10mm Auto bullet. I was thinking of trimming off the crimp portion at øH1, reaming the case and resizing the mouth to hold the 10mm auto (.400 inch or 10.17mm) bullet. It would retain some of the taper of the original while shortening the case to about 33mm in length but still keeping enough case capacity to have good power.
Effectively creating an autoloading 10mm Carbine Magnum that could be fired from a rebarreled SKS, AK pattern rifle or any number of bolt guns or even a lever gun if you used flat nosed bullets.
Is that even doable? Can you go up that much? There is good quality brass available from Hornady.
To answer your question...yes you can. Look at the 45 raptor for example its a standard 308win necked up to 45cal. Think 300 blackout on meth and steroids lol
Also look at the 9.3x39. You can find factory ammo for it
@@kirkmartin2223 .300 Blackout doesn't have a bit more "power" than 5.56x45 and .45 Raptor not a bit more than .308 Winchester and the ballistics of each for "hunting" are fucking horrible. There also isn't a much stupider "hunting rifle" than an AR in a molasses slow whacked off and necked up .223 case with a large rifle bullet and small rifle primer in it for a BLAZING 2100 fps max AND that weighs every bit of 8 lbs once you get a decent hunting "optic" on it and has the WORST TRIGGER EVER DESIGNED FOR "ACCURACY" AND ONE YOU CANNOT MAKE "GOOD" BUT ONLY A LITTLE "LESS BAD" UNLESS AND UNTIL YOU TOSS THE FACTORY AR "FIRE CONTROL SYSTEM" AND DROP IN A $100-$250 TRIGGER ASSEMBLY THAT BETTER BE THE $250 OPTION AND A TIMNEY 3-LB COMP IF YOU WANT TRIGGER "PULL" ANYWHERE NEAR WHAT EVERY REAL AMERICAN "DEER RIFLE" MADE SINCE THE AR WAS "DEVELOPED" HAS FROM THE FACTORY WHETHER IT'S A $250 RIFLE OR A $2500 RIFLE.
EXCEPT MAYBE A "BIG-BLOCK" AR LIKE AN LR308, AR10, SR10 OR PSA10 IN A WHACKED OFF .308 BLOWN OUT TO .452 CARTRIDGE LOADED WITH FLAT-BASE HANDGUN OR STRAIGHT-WALL RIFLE CASE BULLETS THAT REQUIRE AN "EXTRA STEP" OF CASE MOUTH EXPANSION TO SEAT THE BULLETS AND THEN ANOTHER "EXTRA STEP" TO CRIMP THEM IF THE CRIMPER ISN'T INTEGRATED INTO THE SEATING DIE. ALL THAT BULLSHIT TO GET A 5-ROUND .45-CALIBER SEMI-AUTO "HUNTING RIFLE" THAT'S GONNA WEIGH 12 POUNDS IF IT WEIGHS AN OUNCE SINCE MY LR308 ORACLE 16" "CARBINE" WITH A FREE-FLOAT TUBE, TIMNEY TRIGGER, NO "TACTICAL" BULLSHIT OF ANY KIND, A NIKON AR223 ONE-PIECE SCOPE MOUNT ON THE "FLAT TOP" UPPER WITH INTEGRAL "RAIL" AND A PRETTY "LIGHT" LEUPOLD MARK AR 4-14X40 SCOPE AND 5 ROUNDS OF 308 IN A MAGPUL MAG IS 12 POUNDS ALL FUCKING DAY.
KICK-ASS RIFLE - .75 MOA WITH CHEAP 150 FMJ AMMO AND I PUT 50 ROUNDS "DOWNRANGE" ON AFTERNOON AT A LEGIT LASERED 450 YARDS PER MY "SPOTTER" WHILE TRYING TO GET A PRAIRIE DOG AT "400 PLUS" LIKE EVERY "PRAIRIE DOG HUNTER" I'VE EVER KNOWN OR HEARD BUT NEVER SAW SHOOT CLAIMS HE DID/DOES "ALL THE TIME" SO I COULD BE ONE OF THE "COOL KIDS" TOO AND DAMNED IF I DIDN'T GET "ON" THEM AND STAY "ON" THEM THE WHOLE TIME KICKING DUST AND GRAVEL UP ALL AROUND THEM AND WITHIN INCHES 90% OF THE TIME BUT I JUST COULDN'T "CONNECT". AND ONCE DPMS AND I GOT A LITTLE SHORT-STROKING ISSUE WORKED OUT IT RAN LIKE A SEWING MACHINE AND HIT LIKE A HAMMER AND FELT LIKE AN "AR" AND A REAL RIFLE AT THE SAME TIME.
IT'S JUST THE FACT THAT IT'S EVERY BIT AS HEAVY AND NOWHERE NEAR AS HANDY AND TOUGH AND "BULLETPROOF" AS MY "FRANKENGUN" NORINCO M1A I REBARRELED WITH A REAL-DEAL MIL-SURP M14 NATIONAL MATCH BARREL AND PUT A MIL-SURP GAS SYSTEM, FRONT SIGHT, G.I. FIBERGLASS STOCK WITH N.O.S. "STEEL" ON IT AND A N.O.S. G.I. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY BOLT IN WITH A STEEL 20-ROUND BOX FULL OF 150 FMJ AND WAS A $1700 "BUILD" WHILE I TRADED A GUN BUDDY AND FELLOW AR "BUILDER" A COUPLE HUNDRED BUCKS IN "UNOBTAINIUM" AR PARTS DURING THE OBAMA GUN/AMMO "SHORTAGE" ACT II FOR THE M1A THAT PROVES HOW STUPID ANYONE HAS TO BE TO WANT A "BIG-BLOCK AR" THAT'S NO MORE "POWERFUL" AND HAS NO MORE "FIREPOWER" AND IS GONNA BE 3 TIMES THE MONEY AND CLOSE.TO DOUBLE THE WEIGHT OF ANY LEVER GUN IN .30-30 OR .35 REMINGTON OR .45-70 GOVT IF YOU WANT A "BIG-BORE" FOR "HUNTING".
Winchester has the 400 legend coming out any time now .
Never thought .375 could look small
Great stuff,
I habe the mark II and am planing to make a 7mm WSM out of either a 270wsm or a 300 wsm. Do i need special codes or just generate an aztec code before and after? Would you recommend to neck up from 270wsm or down from the 300wsm?
Thanks!!
Alex says you should be good to just analyse it with AZTEC as normal, then anneal it, then put it through the die to neck it up then fire form it.
Annealing Made Perfect so rather 270 to 7mm than 300 to 7mm?
@@tobiastorsi Either way should be ok. We have not tested that specific case ourselves and this video was our first experience with forming wild cats so you may have to experiment.
from which company is the forming die ?
Thanks for the video, im just getting into wildcat rounds and the amp machine makes it look so easy. I will definitely be buying one of your machines when i finish school. What brand are the forming dies?
Hi Trevor, The dies are actually custom made by a gunsmith who works for our Australian distributor BRT Shooter Supplies. You might want to contact them for more information. You can see their website on our "Buy Now" tab of our website under Distributors.
Thank you for the information
Could you not just trim to like 3.1" before you ever turn on the machine or are bushings at whatever diameter that is unavailable? I don't see the point in heating brass that you are going to trim off later.
It would probably be cheaper and more efficient to set up a custom cup and draw process...
Ima take this deer hunting