Can a 4WD bullbar cause a $20k engine failure? | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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So the moral of the story is if you have massive engine failure, take the bullbar off before presenting it to the dealer
Or sue the vendor/fitter and manufacturer of the bull bar? Damn, JC just said that....
or just don't have an Isuzu Dmax on your future shopping list
@@bonza167 Not everyone is forewarned
@@bonza167
Total shit boxes
@@Swaggerlot Good luck with that one.
These vehicles are known to have faults with the turbo and solenoid that controls the turbos boost pressure. The solenoids are prone to faults where it will not provide the correct boost pressure for the motor. Underboost conditions can cause high combustion temperates due to a rich fuel mixture. The most likely case is Isuzu using the bullbar as an excuse to get out of warranty work. Sadly this is quite common with Isuzu Ute Australia.
Stoichiometry?
Ya, where was the warning temp light if any?
It just went all in its own out of no where.
I worked at a business that had D Max. What you describe happened to every single D Max sooner or later. These utes were not only around town clowns. They all towed, high speeds. The km failure varied at from 140,000 to 500, 000. I'm well inclined to go with your explanation but that doesn't help that poor punter.
Rich diesel mix sould reduce temps not raise them.. Cracked piston is sign of overheat for sure. Turbo control fail could overboost at full fuel delivery mode and cook the engine. However, there would be other evidence of said overheat. Lost coolant, discolored paint on head, heat stress on rubber hoses and plastic crap adorning the engine. I would call bullshit on Isuzu blaming the bullbar. Scream blue murder and hope they choose to fix the engine as a PR exercise.
@@partymanau The moment the owner takes the vehicle "out of spec" (modifications, chip-tuning, adding accessories), the dealers and manufacturers start to cheer, because they know they can sell the BS that the warranty is now void because of that. They only have to argue that it's the modification that is responsible for the failure and it's up to the complainant to prove that argument is BS. That means the complainant would have to hire a (very) expensive independent expert to do a full investigation into the failure and hope that expert can give a definitive answer on the point of failure. Anything but a very definitive conclusion (the modification can't have had any influence on the failure) will mean the complainant loses the case. Cases have been lost because the complainant had one, one!, non-dealer oil change done and the manufacturer argued that obviously that one oil change caused the damage that started the failure. Because then again an expensive expert has to prove that the manufacturer is BS-ing.
I worked as a diesel technician in a diesel shop in South Africa, and saw many an Isuzu suffer the same fate due to injector fault. Spraying on one spot, and subsequently burning a hole in the piston. Bye bye, engine. The independent shop I worked for absolutely loved this. Especially if the customer went with a rebuild...😂😂😂
@labourlawact7826 this is the kind of info Bill needs
Isuzu, you say bullbar, I say fuel injector - see evidence here, here and here.
Wouldn’t it be nice if this guy could ask Isuzu for the testing data they speak of and the service note to the dealers telling them to inform any clients with bull bars that they are voiding their warranties and they may overheat their engines.
They do they warn all buyers that modifying the vehicle without their approval will void warranty. If its an mfr approved accessory the warranty is not affected.
@@zorbakaput8537seems a bit of a catch all weasel clause, so broad as to be meaningless.
Would a aftermarket 3rd party spark plug fit that description?
Are vehicles like this used by any fleet arrangement - police/fire/ambulance/military etc and do they use bull bars? Are they aftermarket or provided by manufacturer?
Really does seem a massive stretch to link bull bar to this massive failure.
Looks more like piston failure caused by piston cooling jet rather than restricted intercooler air flow. If that was the case, wouldn't the radiator air flow be affected too and Engine Water Temp would go up unnoticed??? ?Was this a one off or reoccurrance to others out there.
@@sewkung4708 If the cooling jet failed, no, it wouldn't raise the oil temperature. The oil temp would go down because heat is no longer flowing into the oil.
Isuzu sell bull bars as a option on their website
Hi John,
I live in the Wollongong area, very close to the port where the majority of cars imported to the east coast of Australia arrive. A stone's throw from the port access road itself are both an ARB and a TJM 4WD accessory fitting outlets. These obviously cater to walk in trade, but have been so conveniently located as to also serve the dealer upgrade packages offered, where they can be fitted out before being trucked wherever. There are always a carpark full of 'yet to be delivered' vehicles (Hilux, Landcruiser, Ranger etc.), complete with plastic wheel covers, window stickers and cling film around the doors. My point is, in a lot of cases, these vehicles are being sold by the dealer with these 'aftermarket' accessories already fitted.
Funny enough, here in Ireland Isuzu pickup trucks actually have a considerable reputation for failing in exactly this way, to the extent that they have a very low resale value compared to the alternatives. I don't know if they have the same engines here or not, but it's interesting
John, you could have shortened this video down to 'Isuzu UTE Australia doesn't "do" warranty'.
They tell all their customers to go their own way!
The company has a bad reputation for not supporting owners on legitimate claims.
As for the vehicle not having an air temp sensor, I'd expect it should have, as the ECU would need to correct for air density at the intake manifold post turbo, to get the correct mixture.
I was seriously looking at buying an Isuzu but after a few of your videos always seem to be issues with either the car or the dealers
I think I will cross them off the list
Yes, same here. Was looking at new or near new D-max.
Toyota only
@@wristcandy5451they are worse
Been very happy with a GWM cannon. People get really mad when I reccomend it but go in eyes open.
I own my own automotive business and use and recommend isuzu exclusively. Toyota are plagued with issues as are other manufacturers
my brother brought a brand new Isuzu years ago with a Factory BullBar, later that same year some sensor on the suspension went haywire so he went to get it fixed under warranty and Isuzu tried to weasel out of it by saying that he voided his factory warranty by fitting a factory part that he ordered when he designed and brought his Dmax NEW from the factory!
What was the end result? Did Isuzu cough up and fix it at their expense?
@@stediasse yea they did after my brother threatened to report them to fair trading
What could the bullbar have to do with that?
Toyota recommends that you use genuine bullbars only. They state that if you use other brands other than a genuine bar, it may void your warranty if the bar is found to be the cause of the engine overheating or complete failure .
That was straight from the service manager .
ARB manufacturers Toyota genuine bullbar in AUS ,
Almost all bars are the same to meet some shady ADR requirements
Except all the big alloy cow catchers you see out west of the east coast. Apparently they don’t have warranty problems
The problem is, Toyota bull bars are shit. They are a bumper lying about being a bull bar🤣
@@Mike-ry4ti really ? I can’t tell the difference between a ARB bar or YOTA bars structure.
ARB bar will have hi lift jack pockets and same extra crap you don’t need but essentially the same as the flag ship offering
@@dgs0011factory bar doesn't have winch cradle, come on mate.
@@AdmissionGaming crap you don’t need covers that doesn’t it ?
My 5 year old Hilux ute has had a bullbar fitted since new , with spotlights and a winch control unit positioned in front of the radiator. Never had a temperature problem. (Dual Scanguages keep an eye on everything) Have hit 3 roo’s in western Qld over this 5 year period and have not sustained any damage to the ute only marks on the bullbar. Have not found any negatives with bullbars and will continue to fit them. Regards Mick T.
I've reved the piss out of my hilux for 45 minutes straight to get out of a bog temp gauge never even moved the hiluxs just cant get hot unless something fails
As a diesel mechanic I couldn’t agree more mate by the way I enjoyed your pod cast with Andrew st white 👍
Thank you very much, Paul.
4JJ1 has an inlet air temperature sensor and a manifold pressure. The engine ECM SHOULD account for fuel delivery based on; MAP and IAT. Cracked pistons are either from rubbish quality pistons or maybe, just maybe the excessive fuel delivery the ECM is programmed to deliver.
@@R31IceManI think this is the kind of tree Bill needs to bark up.
If he really wants to go legal, is he able to extract Isuzu internal documents/reports via "disclosure" (UK law, not sure what Aussies call it). Known as discovery in USA law.
As a diesel mechanic, you should firstly suspect the injector, and have that tested independently from the dealership!
@@R31IceMan and thank to that it didn't grenaded the engine on the first trip... there is no room for conspiracy here, just ask some car engeneers to asses the damadge and the modification, also ask the bull bar maker to proof it can't cause damage and it's not related to their modification... the owner will found itself going against isuszu and the bullbar maker just because he decided to modify a vehicle at their own risk (or is it any legal engennering inspection? you won't pass MOT, ITV, TÜV without the warranty and engenner signed project in many countries....). How is goig to be other than you the responsible and liable of the damage caused by your eelction, money and full ownership... jnukyard, put stock pieces and ask a car engineer what modifications are neede for towing and maxing out the power/torque in a daily basis...
I am so pleased I came across this story - as the ISUZU was One of three 4X4 duel cabs I was looking at purchasing, and now that list has shortened to two, as a company that comes out with so much bullshit - to get out of a claim, means it unreliable, and cannot be trusted, - so ISUZU is off my list, and I will be sharing this story - to warn others.
Its surprising it was on your list originally if you did your research,
to duel is to battle. to dual is hold two
Maybe the cab and the rest of the car are fighting? You dont know :)@@nomercyinc6783
So Isuzu want us to believe that the ECU has no engine protection for high air temperatures? And this vehicle can tow at max GCM at any temperature reasonably expected in Australia with no issues and no electronic engine protection?
Yeah I was wondering the same. 👍
I just posted something similar. If they consider it such a potential problem that they've already 'conduct an extensive investigation' you'd think they would have added a inlet air temperature sensor with a compensation strategy kicking in under such unfavourable operating conditions.
They’re tested to certain thermal parameters as per the Isuzu specification. The odd vehicle blows up, and that’s covered financially as an outlier because 99.9% do not blow up in their lifetime. I used to do the thermal laboratory testing for Toyota, Ford, Mitsubishi and Holden
The Isuzu engine is fitted to the Dmax is also fitter to Isuzu N series light trucks that are all cab overs and some sold with Isuzu Bullbars fitted so has any of these truck engines had the same failure?
@@paulpedofsky5461pretty sure N series trucks intake point is behind the cab. No obstructions
I worked for Isuzu Stralia dealer network for some time, there was/is an issue with overheating on the model mentioned not just with vehicles fitted with a bullbar. Isuzu Stralia and their two engineers were aware of this condition at the time when I left the network they still had NFI what was causing the it.
We were only a small dealer but we’re repairing at least 3 a month at one stage they were declining warranty due to the coolant being used even though coolants used met spec and Isuzu Stralia didn’t actually offer a genuine coolant.
The vehicle is marketed for accessories including bullbars you can fully option your Ute with genuine gear, we had a number of customers with dangerous body cracks that Isuzu Stralia attempted to and in some cases did decline warranty even though it was happening to vehicles without bullbars even with genuine bars fitted.
Good video John (not that you will read this) all valid points that educate those with no idea and items for consideration. Personally I haven’t fitted any bar work on mine as it isn’t needed and I have seen some poorly designed bars create overheating.
On a final note remember kids when you buy an Isuzu from Isuzu Stralia you get to “go your own way”. Don’t believe the hype they are no more reliable than the next manufacturer.
I doubt that the aftermarket bullbar would block any more airflow than the factory accessory bullbar, except for that crazy number plate placement.
Like, what the heck was he thinking? 😂
Present the letter from Isuzu to the bull bar manufacturer. They may well be able to prove (if it is the case) that their product does not in fact impede airflow, throwing the ball back to Isuzu. Otherwise, the bull bar could be deemed not fit for purpose.
My idea as well, the bullbar manufacturer is to blame.
Never hurts to asks, but don't expect miracles.
Look at the photo. What is blocking more air? The bullbar or the number plate. I am not on anyone's side but the bullbar manufacturer is also not dumb (not really dumb anyway). They would not knowingly manufacture a bullbar that leaves them easily open to lawsuit claims re so much reduction in airflow, because of their design, that helps create engine problems - like the one here. That number plate, that large number plate, would be No 1 reason the bullbar manufacturer could say, it's not our fault. In a court of law, the owner would have a real hard time proving otherwise. As John has stated, the three apertures in the front of the vehicle were carefully designed to meet the needs of the engine and ancillaries, and then tested under all sorts of conditions. What others are implying is that I know more than everyone at the manufacturer and can site whatever I want to in front and "she'll be apples mate". In 50 years or so of part time fabrication, I have only made about five tubular bullbars in Land Down Under. Also about a dozen trailers, but none for off road.
I'm not buying it, suddenly after 100's of hours of driving and 5 years of use the bull bar caused high intake air temps, biggest load of BS to ever be written on paper. When your intake air temp rises you loose HP your exhaust temps rise exponetualy, you would actualy see the exhaust and turbo glowing under the bonnet with as little as 10degC intake air temp rise, at 10deg C you could look through the manifold and see the exhaust valves working. It is not hard to prove one way or the other, put an equevalant vehicle on a dyno and measure the intake air temp after the intercooler. I would also contact the bull bar manufacturer, they would likely have some data from the design phase.
I should add, that it is exhaust manifold temp that increases not cylinder temp because the lack of air results in incompete combustion so the unburnt fuel continues to burn on its way out of the cylinder. Peak cylinder pressure decreases causing the power loss.
Good friends of ours took their 2022 MUX back to Isuzu with a issue in the transmission. It was determined there is a communication issue with the computer. Isuzu denied the warranty claim because our friend had fitted an oil vapour catch can.
I pulled on the highway behind a brand new looking Isuzu Ute on a hot day not too long ago and saw mist flying out from under it, then I smelt the diesel, thing was visibly pouring diesel out from engine bay somewhere whenever he accelerated, must’ve just started as I saw it cause it went from bad to coating an entire lane in a 100m.
Old bloke looked like he had no clue and no intention of stopping so I had to do the Good Samaritan gig of crossing the diesel coated middle lane, catch up on his right side and convince him to pull over.
I can steer pretty good so for me it was a fun power skid through his diesel soaked lane, lucky the highway wasn’t packed could’ve been a bad accident for a Karen in an outlander or three.
But brand new off the lot by the looks and it’s dumping huge amounts of diesel onto the road is not an indication of high build quality.
Enjoyed the video John... lots of laughs. Nobody crumbles paper and throws it like you.
a solution to the airflow through the inter-cooler is to add a thermoelectric fan to it to improve that airflow and thus the cooling. or change it to a liquid cooled inter-cooler rather than the air to air system.
and this is why although genuine accessories cost more they can be worth it in situations like this, as the car company has approved them for use on the vehicle and because the dealer does the install it has warranty coverage.
My neighbours, who are excellent people, have recently purchased a new MUX. The front two tyres are badly scrubbing out after 15,000km. The dealership has seen the problem, it started happening well before 15,000km. The dealer is being difficult, as is Isuzu Australia. They've found quite a few examples of this scrubbing in forums.
I did try to warn them prior to the purchase that Isuzu aren't exactly fantastic on warranty support.
Oh, no mods at all. Just the factory 19" alloy wheels.
Suggest they talk to Fulcrum Suspension. They have an aftermarket front suspension upright that alleviates the tyre wear problem by correcting the bump steer reaction. Basically just incorrect geometry at the Isuzu design stage.
I am at 45K with factory tyres on my MUX, no wear issues, had wheel alignment at 1500KM as I always do with a new vehicle. Tyre place recommended 36-38PSI not the placard 29psi, has been fine ever since.
@@tungstentwohundredandtwent7007 you'd think Isuzu could design a car where this doesn't happen.
My local tyre guy told me that alignment issues are a common problem with many new vehicles. Fortunately, I noticed the problem on my MUX after about 3000km.
I suppose initially Bill's only hope is to find other Isuzu Ute owners who have suffered a similar issue and try to determine a common cause not involving Bull/Roo Bars. As far as the reply from Isuzu Aus, I'm sure we are all familiar with the old saying "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit" Thank you WC Fields.
What really needs to happen is a review of consumer laws to stop manufacturers from weaselling out of their responsibilities by using the slightest most vague excuse they can dig out of their nether regions.
not expert but does this car SUV, thing have big FAN that cut in when thing get to hot, I could under stand if the chap, with SUV, thing was complaning that fan was always on, or something,
Class action maybe
@@dh2032
Intake air temp is absolutely measured (often integrated into the MAF) and on a lot of vehicles the intake air temp post turbo as well. Even barometric pressure is measured and some modern stuff even humidity!
Yeah - but it's not indicated to the user or alarmed.
Depends if that temp sensor is before or after the turbo. Maf's are often before the turbo.
@@deezelfairy a MAF is always before the turbo, only a boost pressure sensor or MAP sensor is after a turbo.
@@AutoExpertJC perhaps. but it is absolutely indicated to the PCM which will automatically adjust the map to compensate for intake air temp and air flow density. This is absolutely de rigeur on virtually every modern engine and will absolutely automatically protect the engine from this kind of failure root cause by de-rating the map until IAT's drop. This is clearly just a carmaker making an excuse. Regardless of your personal bent on automotive accessories, the sheer number of cars with "airflow obstructing bullbars" simply does not correlate with a corresponding sheer number of pistons detonating across a range of makes and models. Bullshit abounds
Good point. A stiff tailwind can raise the IAT and a well designed PCU should have simply reduced boost
i drive an older vehicle. around where i live deer are VERY common. moose every now and then. grill guards are common around here as well. my truck has a 3/6 1/2" walled grill guard that wraps around my head lights. its got mesh in the middle, the steel bars lining up with the bumper and hood. the grill guard weighs 540Lbs with the truck weighing 10,200Lbs curb weight. ive hit a few deer over the years, never had any damage what so ever.
Probably costed a few "bucks"
@@JTA1961 I think I spent $250 on it. Picked up the steel at the local yard and welded it
Nailed a big bouncer on way to work at 0300 hours the other morning. Aftermarket steel bullbar saved the vehicle from being a write off. Not everyone lives in a mass population centre. Skippy Zero me happy
why the need to write 0300 hours and not 3am?
So you'd rather a repaired vehicle, than a tidy replacement?
@@Quadrajettison removes confusion except for you
@@TonyRule what world do you live in, and can I buy a ticket
Goon
Will be cancelling my order with ISUZU on Monday, Thanks for the story.
I'm airflow paranoid. When I mounted my spotlights on my non-bull-barred ute, I made new mounts so they wouldn't block the factory airflow paths. Yeah, I'm one of those weird pricks who chooses function over form.
Hello from the Scottish Highlands. I have a Hilux (2014) which has had an ARB winch bumper and bar fitted for years and 30,000+ miles. Toyota service it and are still upholding the 10 year/100k warranty. So credit to Toyota UK for that support and confidence in the product.
Its also paid for itself already in deflecting a deer without much damage.
How about this angle , He's had 130,000 miles worth of main dealer services and it has never been mentioned that during the plug in tests that they noticed a higher temp in the engine bay ?
Engine bay temperatures aren't measured, and that isn't being claimed to be the issue either. Intake air temperature is, as part of the MAF, as is coolant temperature.
What the dealer hasn't said is ,"sorry Sir but that bullbar is restricting airflow and your warranty may be Void because of it ,any alert service manager should pick this out of the crowd when the vehicle enters their workshops
We are two sides same coin . Run your car down the motorway for a bit stop and open the bonnet the "area " in which the engine sits would be hot . I don't care about the temp inside a rubber tube that you can yank off . Renault 5's before the cooling fan would be a hot area .If in doubt unbolt it as it ain't welded on@@TonyRule
Don't you think the number plate is fitted wrong ,unless its got a frame holding it up I'd say flat against it would be the way @@thatdave86
That T-shirt.
Best one I have seen John wear to date.
I need to know where to acquire this so can continue to age disgracefully 😂
I agree with your comment about bull bars.
I live in Kalgoorlie, the biggest threat here is more likely to be an Emu or Cow.
I've got a nudge bar on the front of my Dmax so I could mount a lightbar for night driving.
they will use the light bar as a reason for denying a claim if given the chance
Try telling someone who lives in Heathcote in central Victoria that a bullbar is unnecessary. People have died down there after hitting 6 foot tall eastern greys and losing control.
@@indeepeterhopwood8106 I call BS, unless you can link to a formal report.
In a 20 year period in the state of South Australia. There were 3 motor vehicle death caused by Kangaroo collisions, and it was not the Kangaroo that caused the death but rather the tree or truck they collided with after the Roo.
This is solid advice. (There's a reason I'm happily subscribed to this channel.)
A few years back, I leased a semi-sporty car and oh man, did I want to put a set of lowering springs on that girl. Not crazy-low, in fact one of the people I spoke with said the visual difference would be so slight that the dealer probably wouldn't even notice weather or not I swapped them back out before returning the car. In the end, I decided not to (again, happy subscriber; I took John's advice). I never had an issue with that car, but if I had, I have no difficulty imagining someone claiming the engine failed because I lowered the car by a few centimeters.
I recently fitted a roo bar to my Hilux. I noticed the reduced air flow potential, but no big deal. However, I noticed last week that my airconditioning was not as cold as it was a month ago... might need to give this some attention!
Is this month's average air temperature higher than last month's?
That can also affect the performance of the a/c......
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk thanks mate. It's only mid-20s outside, and the AC is pretty poor. There's a blank cover over the winch port I can remove, & I can move the number plate to get more air to the condenser (& intercooler) then I'll put the thermometer in the vent & go for a spin!
@@tomparker5000
Testing: That's the only way.
Some Americans fit a hitch receiver to the front of the vehicle and use that as a demountable winch point to compliment the hitch in the rear.
Just takes a bit of welding cable run to get the electrickery to both locations...
The winch then lives in the cargo area...until it is needed.
. I'm American (central VA) and there are bolt on front mount hitch kits available for most SUV/trucks going back to the square body Chevys. I considering one for my F350, but it bolted to the frame using the holes the OE foglights mount to.
@@tomparker5000 You prolly just need to clean/replace your cabin aircon filter. Once they dust up a bit, they'll reduce the airflow and make your aircon seem really weak.
Well done!
Reasonable statements about unreasonable actions and consequences.
I have an ARB bull bar on my 2018 D-Max, it was fitted by the dealer prior to delivery, I din't specify an ARB bull bar when I ordered the car, I just ordered a car with a bull bar. If my engine goes poopie I'll be sure to CC you in on all the details, could be the makings of an entertaining video.
This is why I made sure my Prado came from the dealer with a bullbar and all the barwork done. Glad my thinking about warranty was correct.
Sadly, the wallaby I struck last night had a broken leg, wasn't insured and had to be euthanased. Luckily my ARB bullbar weighing almost 1/10th of a ton meant the Pajero Sport was unscratched.
I've got an ARB steel bar on mine.
Haven't had to use it against the wildlife yet but given the amount of Kangaroos I've seen in various places on recent trips and the amount of flattened ones on the roads it may just be a matter of time.
Goon
1/10th of a ton? Did you forget we have a unit known as a "kilogram"?
@@WTCHMEbut that's not as fun is it?
One thing to check is if the car has a charge pipe temperature sensor, and if it has a limit condition on that sensor as some cars do. If it does and there isn't a code history for it, the dealers idea of what happened is not what happened. Modern cars often have a lot of sensors that can help in this scenario.
I did do that. I modified my 2020 F150. I sure did. I dropped the license plate under the height of the enter cooler and put in a nice-looking rock guard grill on.
Common sense uncommonly delivered. Well done.
Im going to have to agree with you John. My wife and I own a 2021 Dmax and have been towing a caravan around Australia the past 22 months driving 50000kms. We are doing a lap and a half.
I chose to depart from my previous car and not install a bull bar for reasons you mention.
If I have an accident I want the car’s safety design mechanisms to kick in and save our lives.
We don’t ever travel at Dawn, dusk or at night. Yes I have hit a small kangaroo driving home once unfortunately at dusk and I paid the price. There was no damage to the car thankfully as I front wheel just mowed it down.
The Dmax has performed flawlessly and we are very happy with the car.
I’m glad to have left the bull bar off and have no desire to fit one.
All bull bars/lights restrict air I got an Smart Bar / lights on my ranger I went back to the dealer to check as I’m towing a caravan they said fit a scan guage first & check the temps & if they look higher than normal they suggested fitting there towing cooling kit & that’s what I ended up doing 😎
That podcast with three nads was entertaining. Clearly he's got you at the top of all pedestals. Btw, I just emptied my virtual wallet in exchange for 500 odd worth in torches.
Testing is done with a factory standard front end/intake. Rightly or wrongly it gives them an out. I remember the conversation in trade school that warned us against modifications etc because that would void waranty's.
I'm thinking this is not an intake air temp issue directly, but an air density issue as a result of the raised temp. Diesel fuel burns around 650 degrees C, if I remember correctly, so the intake air temp will have little effect. However, the MAF is early in the intake system, pre-turbo. The turbo pressurises the air, which heats it, lowering its density. The air then passes through then intercooler, lowering its temp, and increasing density. The amount of fuel injected is based on the expected air density, so this engine will be overfuelling. The overfuelling is the cause of the piston failure. The hideous bull bar does appear to have a slot in it, but the reg plate has masked half of it. The reg plate is the cause. This failure is a result of long-term overfuelling.
Isuzu are correct that it is not their fault, but not for the right reasons. Arguing the case on the basis their denial is flawed, might not go well though. Big question, who decided to locate the plate across the air intake? The owner, the fitter, or the bull bar manufacturer. The answer to that question will direct liability.
There is a direct correlation between intake air temperature and exhaust gas temperature, so high intake air temperatures will lead to high exhaust temperatures and engine failure as a result.
I don't know if Isuzu has an air temp sensor after the intercooler but that's where the larger diesel engines I am familiar with locate it.
Even if it was overfueling or running "Rich"
The O2 sensors would see this and correct the problem, bringing the fuel ratio back to expected values.
Plus petrol engines these days have a MAP sensors, would assume a diesel would too.
@@IIGrayfoxIIgood assumption, but you don't understand diesels. They have a nox sensor not o2
Nigelcox, you are completely wrong. When combustion occurs, it delivers the heat of combustion - always the same amount of heat for the same amount of fuel burnt - to the fixed mass of air+fuel in the combustion chamber. This raises the temperature by a fixed amount that adds to the temperature of the air taken in. So the temperature seen by the piston is directly affected by the temperature of the intake air, which was raised above ambient by the turbo.
@@IIGrayfoxII : Diesels don't run anywhere near rich. There is no throttling of the air, thus they always run super-lean. At any given RPM, power output is directly proportional to the amount of fuel injected. It makes no sense to adjust the amount of fuel to optimize mixture - it would just be the same as varying the amount your foot pushes the accelerator pedal.
There are only 2 reasons for a diesel engine management system to cut back the amount of fuel injected: 1) to reduce power output at high RPM ie to stay within cooling capacity and/or make the engine abuse tolerant, & 2) to keep nitrogen oxide emissions within specification.
What a difference. Have a Mazda CX-5 2018 in Thailand. Occasionally loosing power. 140,000km and out of warranty. Took to the showroom. Said engine might need replacing following a fault code Turns out it did but done free of charge. Pick you next week.
Great vid sir. Would one of those vehicles have an intake air temp sensor? My old AU XR8 has one. If so would it not log a fault code or check engine light if the temp was too high? Curious.
I must disagree with Isuzu. Long term high intake temps would show damage in all cylinders not just one. A failed injector would absolutely destroy a individual cylinder. Doesn’t help old mate but that’s my thoughts
On the money, Mate. 🍺
He said no 1 and 3 cylinders were cracked.
My 2021 d max the rear diff just failed, luckily i think isuzu is going to warranty but been waiting 2 months so far kind of frustrating.
My experience is with larger diesel engines and have carried cooling system validation on both road going vehicles as well as heavy machinary. Bull bars, spotlights and number plates all make a difference. Modern diesel engines produce the power they do with turbocharging and aftercooling, otherwise you would have 80kw 3.0 litre engines and not 150kw. Compressing air elevates the air temp exponentially so keeping it cool is imperative.
Restricting air flow and recirculation of hot air elevates IMTs which in turn elevates cylinder temps and exhaust temps. In saying this, nothing pulls down cylinder temps quite like engine speed. You can have the best CAC system however you put on larger tyres, you decrease your rpm v engine load speed which means your engine is producing the same power at a lower rpm reducing the amount of clean air cycles per minute. Combine this with aftermarket calibrations , a deleted egr that replaces a portion of inert gas with oxygen and add in towing, well you have a hand grenade.
If we had a failure on a larger diesel, the ecm would log faults, derate and also provide an audit trail in the ecm logging counts of the fault and durations. I guess the light duty market is not like this. I would of thought it would need to be for emission reasons..
I wonder if arb validate their bars with cooling validation testing.
A bull bar, chain link license place holders, and gaudy custom grills on the front of a vehicle is equivalent to having a mullet for a haircut.
If the air charge temperature was so critical to the engine's operating life, there should have been an intake air temperature sensor somewhere to keep tabs on it and trigger an overheat warning somewhere. Reduced intercooler efficiency sounds like something that should not result in anything worse than losing some power due to less dense air getting shoved into cylinders. Sounds to me like Isuzu is trying to conjure up any excuse it can think of, including pointing out what appears to be a design flaw in their engine, to deny warranty.
Great lessons to be learnt from this video.
Hi John Good report however one of the things I would have probably asked , bearing in mind that the car has been serviced ahead of the requirements, is did the dealer at any time say to Bill that the " modification" is not a good thing to do because this could cause problems? or did Bill just say " it will be ok"?
Some OEM’s (Landrover) supply Roo/Bull bar accessory kits which include re-designed crush cans to maintain crash sensing integrity, without affecting cooling performance.
I once spend hours looking for a led light bar that was an 1/2 inch smaller then the rest just so it would fix under the rad fan instead of in its path on a bike that already gets hot
I would like to know if there are bull/roo bars in the Izuzu accessories catalog.
Its lovely that the customer has to prove the bullbar didn't cause the failure and yet the car manufacturer does not have to prove it did. I am slightly surprised there is no inlet air temperature sensor. If there were, it would be all to easy to work out if high inlet air temperature was the cause of the problem.
Not sure if you’ve covered it but I’d be interested to hear what you have to say about the ARB Smart Bars. Would they be less dangerous than a steel bar? Not that I’ll be installing either but still it might be interesting to talk about.
Their (Isuzu) extensive investigation should be provided to the punter. It could be a case of correlation does not equal causation. The engines are known to have boost control problems, and I would hazard a gamble that most Isuzu 4WD’s have a bull bar fitted (or a high percentage at the least). How many of these failures have occurred on the same engine without a bull bar, as part of their “extensive research” and if it is a measurable percentage, bingo, there’s your solicitor’s green light.
My experience has been with IUA, is that the default in regards to warranty claims is.....ahhh no. You also need the dealer to push hard..
Im due to replace my 2018 everest soon and was looking at the new isuzu mux as a posible candidate. I have read far too many stories of Isuzu not honouring warranty so they are off the list. I dont need more drama after having to fight ford to get the rusty doors, bonnet and tailgate replaced on the everest.
This reminds me, in the context of manufacturer bullfuckery, of an experience a friend had with her Holden Craptiva. She bought a ten-year-old model second-hand, which is fine. However, some months after purchasing, it started going into limp mode. She took it to her mechanic, who consulted with the Holden dealer mechanics across the road. Apparently, that model was the first one where they moved a particular sensor from the firewall and integrated it into the turbo assembly. The problem was, after a while, the sensor would cook from the heat of the turbo.
The Holden guy told her mechanic that it was a known issue, and due to my friend's ability to charm the hardest soul, they contacted Holden to see if they would do a goodwill supply of parts to replace the damaged system. Holden responded with blurb about the vehicle being ten years old and therefore, they won't provide any assistance. Fair enough, other than the fact that it was a known design issue with that vehicle. She ended up paying for the repairs and traded it in for a ... Prado...
I wonder if aftermarket floor mats voids your warranty.
Only if you own an Izuzu
When Bill finally caves in, and they repair the damage done to the motor, I bet they'll replace the injectors "to be sure" . A blanket repair at someone else's expense. Also, its a large list of warranty dodging manufacturers who try to get out of repairing vehicles in a fair and just manner.... manufacturers like Ford, GM, Jeep, land rover, Mercedes benz, etc. Some of these companies have been around for well over a century now, but if I buy a car made in Korea, I'm better looked after, with longer warranty periods? I think I'll continue with pot luck buying second hand cars, thanks very much, Mick...
Being raised in the country around having bull bars , You are 100% correct about bull bars on modern cars with safety stuff and that,s what insurance is for.
I'd like to see some wind tunnel comparisons between the main brands of aftermarket bullbars and the genuine bullbar a log of these brands provide and subsequent comparisons of the effect on airflow if any.
Perhaps something for some of the bullbar manufacturers to consider as part of their testing.
No doubt they do investigate that, but then did you fit a winch, did you fit driving lights, etc
Virtually all carmakers either offer a genuine set of driving lights or the dealers will fit driving lights pre sale. If they're going to argue that affects the air intake and cooling performance of the vehicle perhaps that shouldn't be happening.
Increasingly often factory bars are winch compatible. If they're genuinely going to argue the winch causes issues perhaps they should have a duty to outline that a winch can cause harm to the vehicle and isn't to be installed. They'd never do that though, they love playing both sides of the fence here, using the image of their vehicle fully kitted out to sell but then using said kit to deny warranty claims.
some bullbars are really bad, normally just overheat the radiator and reduce power as the intercooler heats up
@@itsbigal92 when you say factory bar, to what do you refer? I don't believe such a thing exists.
@@xpusostomos The bullbar the carmaker sells as an accessory. Yes I know they're not physically installed at the factory but that's what people call them to distinguish from aftermarket bars.
Great vid
Also would like to know if the pistons have oil jet cooling and does it have a large enough oil cooler.
Great advice re bull bars, esp the last minute or so 👍
These ute should have a viscous clutch fan. In general don't install spotlights in front of the radiator/engine cooler intake vents
The Isuzu ute has a Viscous clutch fan
Does everyone know about DPF regeneration on these 4jj1’s. I know they use injection on the exhaust stroke cycle. However do they use all injectors or do they alternate?
What would you recommend to protect your front end from driving through brush and branches?
How do you feel about “factory” optional bull bars? Surely manufacturers would need to uphold warranty and such when said items are fitted, also what about claims like Triton’s option which says that it keeps the 5 star safety rating? Legit or bogus?
ANCAP say that "ANCAP does not test vehicles with bullbars fitted." East Coast Bulbars claim, "Aftermarket modifications can neither reduce nor increase an ANCAP safety rating.
@@tjarlzquoll9835 fair enough, Mitsubishi’s build page for the Triton has this information for the bullbar option.
The Genuine Black Powder Coated Front Protection Bar with fog lamps has been designed and engineered to meet Mitsubishi Motors' stringent safety standards. It's fully airbag compatible, and retains Triton's 5 star ANCAP rating when fitted. Tested to ensure sufficient ventilation for engine cooling.
Note 1: Includes provision to mount genuine accessory LED light bar, which is available separately.
Note 2: Depending on colour of model selected and if selected model has front park assist sensors, additional cost maybe required to change outer park sensors to match front protection bar to black. Please check with your local Mitsubishi Dealer for additional cost.
Note 3: Not compatible with fender flares.
So really I’m curious if Mitsubishi would try to knock back a warranty claim, on the basis that one of their bullbar was fitted, surely they should still uphold the warranty and such?
Just a point. The "knobs" fitting the number plates are fitting them in the location provided by the bull bar manufacturer. The reason for that location is because the lower orifice is for the winch which, though not fitted in this case, doesn't have provision for number plate fitment. Since you are not supposed to modify the bar by drilling holes, most fitters place the number plate in the position the manufacturer of the bar has provided for mounting the plate. The kit often includes the captive nut clips to fit in that location for that purpose. Agreed on the fitment of bullbars and impact on safety. I have said it many times but always cop flack.
Ive bought a few second hand utes with steel bullbars, they all had cracks in the front cross member and around the steering box and idler arm. ARB. I ll stick to my alloy tjm which has a proper mounting bracket.
I sat watching this and realised my Landcruiser, which is fitted with a genuine Toyota bull bar has the number plate covering a section of the opening. I immediately repositioned it and exposed another 270cm2 of space for air flow. As you say John what nob does that?
A guy in a highlux with a full ARB bull bar decided not to notice the rest of us were stopping in the harbour tunnel Sydney a few years back, and smacked into the rear of my old territory- his ARB dissagreed with my factory Hayman Reece towbar. He would have been doing about 60 kph to my 20. We drove on and exited the tunnel as a courtesy to peak hour drivers that morning, and pulled into an emergency lane.
He could not open his driver's door to get out as the door jamb was pushed back, both guards were pushed back, the bonnet was pushed back and crumpled at the front, the bull bar had pierced both of his front tyres and was bent on both sides into both tyres.
His car was done. I was amazed at how much damage his own bull bar had done to his black high lux. He had to climb out the passenger door. He was unable to drive it to work. I had seen him wearing *edit weaving in and out of traffic previously, so he must have been late. He said he was an excavator driver, I felt sorry for him, as his car was probably screwed. I don't know what those bullbars are designed for other than to hold a winch and spot lights, but ive seen that a high lux is not a great candidate for wearing one.
Jake
The bull bar manufacturer could claim that they had the design in a way so it lets enough air through for the intercooler. But someone blocked the air slot with a number plate. Bull bar manufacturer could say that if number plate was above or below the air slot it would have been fine.
What sort of temperature drop does a stock intercooler in one of these drop the air temperature? Given its based on ambient air temp, it seems to me that you don't want to run an Isuzu in mildly hot weather... Ie, basically all of Australia in the summer time...
Since this is ultimately an economic decision, one might be tempted to ask how much it would cost to run an ad in a few magazines about how a "legendary truck" can to ruined by a bullbar. Guaranteed the sales side of the company would have a massive hissy-fit. Truth is an absolute defense against slander.
Libel rather than slander if in print. Proving the 'truth' can be the expensive bit.
It would be interesting to know just how many of these engines had piston failures in vehicles that were NOT fitted with Bull bars. I am sure Isuzu Utes Australia would be more than pleased to share this information [not!]
injector issues have nothing to do with airflow to the front of the car
Thanks
There’s a reason the part number for the grille for a Ford Escape is 8200, which as an “8000”number is part of the cooling system, not, say, 16000 like a fender.
The same people that design the radiator design the grille work.
Buying a D-Max voids your warranty
Isuzu does have air inlet temperature sensor, well my 2021 MUX does. Visible on OBD2 app I use to monitor DPF regen.
Yeah, but it doesn't inform the drivet (no display or warning light). And if you use a phone app like that while driving, it's illegal.
Over the past two decades I have looked at some of the Bullbar designs and thought that’s restricted the flow to the cooling system.
But in the picture, I cannot see the flow restricted that much compared to the standard one .
I feel a problem with the vehicle, but it’s quite a few years old and we have to look forward to enjoy life when you can so maybe just needs to bite the bullet replace the engine and then replace the vehicle with something better suited like a small truck.
Keep up your great work, enjoy your podcast with Andrew also, and looking forward to the next one.
What small truck would you replace this Ute with?
@@jhmorleyservices2556
So a Isuzu N series like a NNR
Fuse Canter, Hino, or one of the incredibly capable Iveco Daily for starters.
My old Nissan Terrano has roo bars and only an electric radiator fan which comes on sometimes while towing. Mostly just road speed air and the radiator is pretty old. 250,000 plus Ks and engine yet not blown.
@@howardsimpson489 but was your Nissan engine pushed to the max horsepower from a small engine?
Was it towing an oversized toilet?
the cooling system uses fans to pull air over the radiator. cars dont require simple airflow to stay cool. bullbars dont hinder engine performance and they never could. the radiator doesnt only act as a water to air cooler. fans do the majority of the cooling work required. not airflow
Love the t-shirt!
Have your customer let the injectors be tested by an independent shop. The spray pattern. Are the injector on the piston with the hole and crack in, atomizing the fuel correctly? I've seen it over and over that the injectors are faulty on the spray tips. I'll bet my very life on it😺
I think if you are buying new you are best to buy the brand/model that has the accessory options from the manufacturer you desire and can be fitted at time of delivery. Not sure why people buy a car and then try to turn it into something different.
What is a BullBar? Here in Texas we call them Brush Guards.
Pretty much the same thing mate a over sized metal bumper bar
The Isuzu response is actually correct, the charge air temps can cause this type of failure however, there should be calibrated engine protection. After 10 yrs as a diesel engine calibrator we had strict air inlet temp limits along with boost pressure limits etc… most intake manifold boost sensors also have temp sensors and as such start to de-rate the engine calibration to protect the engine. So either Isuzu have an awful calibration team and don’t have an adequate engine protection strategy or Inexperienced calibrators who just don’t have robust calibration methods and sign off procedures. There are derates for engine and transmission based on air temp, coolant temp, oil temp as well.
This is why we used to laugh at “tuning shops” who then make more aggressive boost maps and injection & rail pressure maps…. Warranty instantly invalidated….
Intake air temp is sent to the ecu for optimal fuel supply, so if air flow was an issue causing air intake temp to rise, then the ecu would control fuel in that issue.
I have had a few pickups with bull bars fitted after market and taken them off straight away and sold them on.
I have a 96 Mitsi Delica with factory fitted bars and a 98 Isuzu TF factory fitted bars.
Neither obscure the air intake at the front
Always off road around cattle, trees, tractors and other idiots in the Ute.
Currently driving the Delica on Dartmoor with errant livestock towing a caravan.
No Roos in the UK so no problems there.
Only things i get into contact with is dickheads in Range Rover Vouges, side swiped by one and he managed to slightly bend the Delica bars while smashing the rear quarter on his 'Car'.
For me the best upgrades are a good set of dashcams and a fire extinguisher. Cheers
ramen is a 50 years old's version of a 20 year old's 2 minute noodles.
Interesting concept when manufacturers offer their own aftermarket accessories and I believe that you can even have various bits and pieces fitted by the aftermarket boys before picking your thing up from the dealer.
I wonder if one of those Scan Gauge things would have helped by being able to monitor temps if the vehicle had the required technology available to do it.
Would have given them less wriggle room if you could point out that the temps were within spec. whilst driving.
I keep trying to convince myself to get one as they would be handy when having to push off road or in the heat to check transmission temps etc.
If its done by the dealer you should be covered, as long as said aftermarket accessories are approved by Isuzu corporate.
If not approved by the manufactuer but installed by the dealer you'd still have legal recourse - but you'd have to get lawyers involved.
@@deezelfairy Yeah maybe.
Mate of mine, many years ago, had an LPG system fitted to a new petrol 4wd at the dealer.
Did all of the due diligence and was assured by both the dealer and the system supplier/fitter that he had a factory warranty blah blah.
It ended up burning a valve and both parties washed their hands of it and blamed each other.
I would ask them if intake air temperature is such a serious issue, what safeguards are there to prevent this occurence. I mean, they could easily monitor the intake air temperature and reduce boost if needed. Also, what is the maximum sustained intake temperature they claim to have already determined. Then I'd fit a temperature sender after the intercooler and test and record the temperatures with and without the bullbar under load.
@@TonyRule I'm definitely no mechanic or engineer but I did watch a video where a guy fitted a larger intercooler to an engine that was known to be a bit of a hand grenade in the early days.
He monitored it before and after with a Scan Gauge and it made a big difference to the EGT's so you that could only help engine longevity I would have thought.
Given where they're mounted and the fact that 4wd's can go off road maybe in crappy conditions blocking an intercooler with mud or whatever would cause the same issues I would have thought.
@@oldbloke204Correct. It could easily get blinded off road in a muddy bog, and then be subject to high loads climbing a hill afterwards.
Would the reasoning that izuzu provided for declining warranty repairs not pass as proffmtoma bullbar manufacturer or would they want more definitive proof that their product was a cause of failure? Either way for the average car owner sounds like its just cheaper and less hassle to suck it up and pay for a replacment/repair
When traveling long distances around Australia, I never drive at night - unless after setting up camp we decide to head to the local for a counter meal. This eliminates the need for a "roo bar" by about 90%. Of the remaining 10%, since there's no rush, take it easy, have regular breaks, get to point B before you are tired. Your car (and mobile shitoire) will also appreciate the more leisurely pace.
I have often wondered how the ANCAP safety rating is revised once you add a bullbar to the front of your vehicle or do they not crash test Bullbars fitted to vehicles?
The bullbar manufactures test that the airbag sensors still work. Apart from that, a bullbar on the front is just like evening out the crash across the surface of the front. So imagine the bullbar is stationary and you run into it with an unmodified car... that's the same as you running into whatever with a bulbar. It's an arbitrary flat something between you and the other thing.
BHP Mining company did their own testing and found bullbars reduced safety. They instructed all vehicles globally to remove them.
John did a video on it a while ago.
@xpusostomos except the bull bar is attached to the vehicle which changes many things. I'd say there's quite a difference between having a bull bar fitted and having an empty coke can in it's place. The coke can won't affect much but the bull bar will.
@@dinosshed ok you explain to me the difference between running into a bullbar, and having a bullbar and running into something else. Because I can't see any difference. It a piece of sheet metal between you and the thing you ran into. The worst it can do is actually good which is distribute the force instead of concentrate it in one point.
To my knowledge (ie educated guess!) none of the national testing labs, like ANCAP, run two sets of tests: one with a bull-bar and one without. If you think about it, you can see why this would be so:
1) there are loads of different makes of bull-bar out there: testing them all would be insanely expensive.
2) no manufacturer wants to run the risk of their car fitted with a bull-bar turn in a worse performance (eg airbag deployment delayed - crash test dummies all rated as dead)