I am a student of physics (67 yrs old) and the way you presented this video was in realm of great instructors such as Julius Sumner Miller and Neil DeGrass Tysonthe. You made learning interesting and unforgettable. May I say MALS again mate!
100% agree!! Was towing my 23” 1/2’ 2.8t van with a Hemi powered Jeep. Plenty of power and comfort it mostly towed with ease. One scary moment descending the snowy mountains at 20- 30kmh and I realised what I really already knew. Also found out what I should have known. It is not a car you can trust to get there. Most unreliable car and terrible after sales. I now have an old F250 that was an off roader’s dream. I’ve had it brought back to a standard lift, got rid of the ridiculous 317 s and sold the Bull bar. Not a great environmental choice and I’ll pay a penalty on fuel and parking I know, but at least the tail won’t wag the dog so much ( I hope 🤞). Keep up the great info and I hope it sinks in a bit. Cheers Mark Mark
Perhaps. But don't discount the complimentary value of real world experience that you've gained since in assisting with the comprehension of the theory.
Wow John that was certainly a different feeling to your normal videos. It was a lot more refined without so much of the piss taking and very well explained. I would like to just make a couple of points. You said that when the airbags go off you won’t remember it and that a crash at over 60km/h is hit and miss as to whether or not you survive. You are so right on both accounts as in April 2020 my wife and I were hit head on by a car with a drug affected driver that crossed onto our side of the road. We were in a 2010 VE ute and he and his mate were in a 1998 Kia Rio , we were travelling at 80km/h and him probably more. I didn’t have time to even get my foot to the brake pedal and he didn’t bother. I remember absolutely nothing of the airbags deploying and yes it was fatal as the two in the Kia were both killed. The two things that saved our lives were physics, our car was bigger than his, and the safety devices built into the car. Looking at photos months later I could see how the safety cell was still in shape even though inside the cabin looked like a bomb had gone off. The impact even creased both rear quarters above the wheel arches. Yes we were smashed up pretty bad and still have a long recovery road ahead but we survived with mainly lots of broken bones. We replaced the VE with a brand new Sahara to improve the odds and chose the Sahara it was the only Cruiser to offer all the safety gear. Most of my friends were surprised when I said no I won’t be getting a bull bar. Like you I don’t like them. I don’t like the look of them and I would hate to hit a pedestrian with one of those on the front. I can’t figure out how they’re still legal when car manufacturers have to design their cars to mitigate pedestrian injuries. I’ve had other Land Cruises over a period of thirty years all fitted with a bull bar and traveled to a lot of remote places yet I’ve never hit anything. Luck has played a part but so has the advice you gave. I tried to always off the road by mid afternoon and never drove at night and I like my sleep to much to be up and away early. Of course I got the same question “what if you hit a kangaroo” and my answer is “that’s what insurance is for”. Lastly one thing caravan owners, me included, can do to reduce the risk of your van getting a dose of the wobbles and throwing you of the road and landing upside down in a ditch is to fit stability control to the van. Most new vans either come with it or it’s optional and there are several brands offering kits that can be retro fitted to older vans. Thanks for an excellent presentation. Cheers Stuart.
in saying this being stuck in the middle of nowhere with a vehicle that was disabled only because you didnt have a bullbar to keep your living ass trucking until you can get somewhere it can get repaired is nice, especially offroad. i lost windscreen wipers when i really needed them in a remote place without mobile coverage once only because i lacked a bullbar. a bullbar would have made getting home a whole lot safer
I was once towing a car trailer with a barred out speedway car on it, when it started to fishtail rather violently while going down an incline.. Instinct said accelerate, but self preservation said brake heavily so that when it rolls over , it will be at reduced speed. I chose brake heavily and eventually the wild fishtailing stopped. Lesson learnt..slow down to a sensible speed when towing.
Just got home from a 17k km trip towing our 2019 Jayco Silverline with our Ford Everest. The is our second caravan, and we have learn to downsize, not take gear that you never use. We no longer take a generator, only basis tools. The full loaded rig was put over a weight bridge before we left. The vehicle has been left standard, but for a brake controller. We had a great trip, avoiding the winter months in Perth. John's comments about tyres are so true, you end up with a nice ride with lower road noise.
Would be educational to give people an idea of weights and forces of trucks. This could help people drive accordingly around heavy vehicles. A lot of people don't know that a loaded B Double weighs in at around 63 Tonne . I have had people ask questions about trucks at Servo's and when you tell them that it's 6o odd Tonne they're blown away , they have no idea. Good video mate.
So I’m watching the video thinking to myself: “What’s all of this bleeding from the ears, stuff? This doesn’t seem so hard to understand.” And then it hits me: it’s not that this is so simple to understand. It’s the way you manage to put it in terms that a dum-dum like me can understand (at least at the most shallow of levels). Thank you, John. I must say, beer garden physics is hands down my favorite content from this channel :)
I had a classic, well disturbing situation unfold in front of me today in Maryborough, rural Victoria. Whilst travelling through said town, no lockdown for us rurally, I was behind a small single cab tray ute. The old guy was towing a box trailer with a industrial cube water container holding I’m guessing up to a 1,000L/1000kg. From the outset it was bloody obvious the weight he was towing was too heavy for his vehicle. As he continued in front of me at 60kph, I thought this could turn nasty. As he came to a corner to turn off, I could see he was not only going too fast but also braked too late. As he turned the corner, the laden trailer just unhitched complete from his small tray ute & shot up the road in front of me at speed! Eventually gravity on the trailer steered it to off the sealed road, the chassis submerged into the gravel & launched the water storage container into the air! The trailer bucked a few times before flipping onto its top. The whole time which was maybe 5-10 seconds, the old guy continued down the side street not even realising he’d lost his bloody trailer. I pulled over to assess the situation, & he was nowhere to be seen. Another driver pulled over, & said he’d call the police. Thankfully the trailer & said load were completely off the road.
The lockdown in the Knee of Syd isn't all bad news, especially if it means that John is making more deep-dive beer garden physics content. Yessssssssssssss!
37:00 Bullbars - the eternal compromise between "animal impact" and "head-on with another vehicle, or a tree". We spent a long time deciding on this one, and I freely admit that I'd prefer the "no bar" option, as most of the time our 4x4 is on-road, in traffic and motorway driving. But recently a skippy lost the argument with the bull-bar, "out bush", and without the bar the damage would have been considerable (disabled the vehicle). As it was, nothing more than some cracked plastic (inspected by installer to be certain of no frame damage).and the number plate took yet another hit. If you never "go bush" then a bullbar is just a wank.
Thanks for that. This has been a debate for me for a while too. As it is, my current tug has a nudge bar, so not sure if this is a good compromise between BB and no BB. Its a standard fitment from the manufacturer and looks like its beefy enough, including the mounting points on the chassis, but like you, I guess time will tell. I figure I can always bend a fender that's been crushed onto the wheel to get me out of a pickle.
Last sentence is gospel. Toorak tractor stuff. When I first met the Child Bride, her ride was an XB Chooktin Wagon, and a bloody big made in and for use around Cunnamulla Alloy Bullbar. Designed to allow you to complete your trip after a roo strike. And no Skippy ever got up again to go back to the Ranger Station to tell Sonny all about the experience. My point is, that bar was a menace, actually annoying in town. But at 120+, out there, needed. BTW, the XB was the last good Ford. Prove me wrong.
If you think about it, a kangaroo is just a funny-shaped crash test dummy. It's still a big fleshy animal hitting the front of the vehicle, which engineers have already designed for hitting big fleshy homosapiens.
Skippy was a stinking New South Wales Kangeroo anyway, cause Matt Hammonds’ XW wagon had a Thanks Warra, Tar on the doors. I had the hots for Clancy but.
That’s one of the must see informative video for everyone who sat or contemplate sitting behind a wheel including D shaped ones to drive a vehicle whether he will ever intend to make the sojourn to Dingo Piss creek or won’t. I haven’t finished viewing the entire video yet but sampling the first few minutes tell you about the whole video.
Bloody good video John more subdued than normal 😂. This should be compulsory viewing for all who are thinking of getting into towing and get fed bullshit from multiple sources. 👍
Hi John, Love your videos and educated technical explanation and analysis. I tow a 3200kg caravan behind a 105 series Landcruiser (yes I know) and have long grappled with blue knuckle syndrome due to the inherent instability of the system. I have towed around Australia a couple of time and have come up with a theory as to why my knuckles turn blue. I have an electronic engineering background (not mechanical) so I may be dilutional (for one reason or another). The problem which I have encountered is a fundamental instability in the tow "system" (tow vehicle with attached caravan), primarily at highway speed. I agree that all the elements you have highlighted play a part in this instability, however I suggest the "primary" issue for the instability is that a positive feedback loop exist between the caravan and tow vehicle. The positive feedback exists because the hitch point of the caravan is located behind the rear axle of the tow vehicle. A random yaw moment in the caravan causes a yaw moment in the tow vehicle with an opposite angle of rotation. As the tow vehicle corrects itself (naturally or from driver input), with a yaw moment in the opposite direction, this rotation is transferred back to the caravan with an direction of rotation opposite to the initial yaw moment. Hence producing a positive feedback loop with a potential runaway characteristic. This is why you see these videos of a caravan or boat oscillating a couple of times and then swaying so violently that they end up rolling over. If the hitch point was to be located in front of the rear axle the feedback loop would be negative and hence any yaw moment induced into the tow vehicle would produce a self damping affect. I suggest this is also why semi-trailers the "fifth wheeler" configurations are stable. All right I can handle it, dish it out, I am ready for it..... OR If I am right then you must be ..... well ..... ? Regards Eddy
I find installing a 5th wheel on double cabs to be quite difficult because as John puts it, the rear axle is practically in the passenger area or very close to it. So getting the vertical loading precisely on the drive axle is not gonna be easy, considering that you must also include the “interference” aspect where the trailer tracks the tow vehicle.
Dear John, applause - even standing ovations to your explanaitions. I studied geology/paläontoöogy with the focus on climatology/claciology. That includes physics, mathamatics an so on. Yet, being more passionized for driving on ice and snow than analizing it I do work as commercial driver. If it comes to of "fanboy-arguments" around the detail "overhang" in tow-discussions in campers', boaters' or even truckers' beergardens, I did notice this: the less knowledge of physics and the less skills in driving somebode actually has, the more the idea of "overhang" is supported with rage and blood. And the reason for that is this: if you put your gear in reverse with a trailer hooked to the towball, then it's going to go more easy to taxi around the longer the "overhang" is and the more fanboy of an as long as possible "overhang" the driver is under all circunstances thinkable while driving. Dunning-Krüger at its best.
Whenever you have "physics" in the title I'm watching the video. I love this stuff. I kept pausing the video to read your T-shirt .. so many memories! I like some of the electrical symbols .. maybe a parody of us "sparky" types? P.S. I drove the big 18 wheelers in "murica" and I know they dont compare to some of the multi-trailer trucks in Oz, but I had harder times backing boat trailers than the big rigs. They were so "squirrely" compared the big stable tractor-trailer rigs, so take your comments about stability to heart. Well done explanation of the physics .. you should teach if your journalism carrier dries up :)
Thank you for this excellent video and for explaining a complex topic in a way I could understand. This should be mandatory viewing for anyone towing a trailer that is heavy enough to require trailer brakes.
Very informative video many people towing large vans are in denial with regard to weights , recently weighing our LC 200 & van on the Sunshine Coast the guy operating the scales mentioned the towies are directed to bring the car and van to the scales for weighing after a major accident .result over loaded =no insurance. I am more than happy my van weight is 2480 kg fully loaded LC was 3.100 kg.cheers Ian.
When I draw the engineering theory of towing I draw the actual thing when it goes wrong. A plate of spaghetti shows the directions one goes in once losing control
Love my MQ Triton. Shortest wheelbase of all the dual cabs (I suspect), great turning circle. Also has a distance between rear axle and tow ball that I, myself (and any Archimedes out there) realise is so long as to create Serious Handling Issues Towing (S.H.I.T.), anything over about two thirds of the Recommended Overall Load Limit Of Vehicle Engineered Requirements (R.O.L.L.O.V.E.R.). Misunderstanding these considerations could well result in discovering that Dingo Piss Creek can sometimes be found in ones underwear!
Overhang past the rear axle to the tow hitch is the second most important thing for towing safety. The shorter the better. E.g, tandom axle trucks with turntable, 5th wheelers, SUVs.
I have the 2l Ranger and have not experienced any problem with hunting through the gears when towing either. My toy hauler weighs about 2100 kg the Ranger does a much better job of following it than the MUX before it. If I leave it to is own devices when towing it will rarely go into 9th of 10th, so I usually lock those 2 out and it happily sits in 8th, only changing down when the hill gets a bit steep. I think our guy with the 3 tonne Ranger and 3 tonne trailer combo is probably over loading the tow vehicle though as the trailer should impose around 300kgs of is weight on the tow vehicle putting it at about 3.3 tonne. GVM for the Ranger is 3.2 tonne
Ok, don’t laugh! I’m a retired shop owner in the US, I ran across John’s channel about 5 years ago and I really enjoy his entertaining presentations. I’ve noticed something in the past and this video really put it in perspective. By all his descriptions of vehicles used for towing can I assume Australia does not import any 4 door long bed 3/4 and 1 ton pickup trucks? If that is the case is it because of size, price economy (or lack thereof) or a combination. Great vid, I’m forwarding this to several old customers who really need some help with this subject!
@@flipperdick1796 I hadn’t thought of that, you’re probably right. I’ve seen a few Fords with RHD but they were older but never a GM or Chrysler product. That’s probably good for you folks Chrysler product have been a pain in one way or another since the 1960’s. Thanks!
I find the US truck type Utes to be too large for our relatively narrow road lanes (and car parks). They truly are a wide vehicle compared to something like a Hilux; even the Dodge RAM (if you must buy a Fiat Chrysler product) is wider. As others have indicated, cost and lack of factory RHD versions appear to be a contributing factor.
@@elaineandlindsaymchock6718 Thank you for your input, I’m getting a quick education on driving conditions in your country. You are so right about Chrysler products, their current reputation goes back to the 1960’s and 1970’s with most of the people I know. Most allDiesel mechanics will tell you the Cummins is by far the best diesel, it’s only issue I our domestic truck market is it’s surrounded by a Chrysler product. Thanks again.
Great episode John. Your example of explaining inertia was brilliant. Just an inclusion of uniform density with the comment on dimensions would make it more complete.
John, that was one if the best videos you’ve done. Ive sent it to my caravanning friends I HATE THEM). Too many years of bring stuck behind them between QLD and VIC. Love your content. Michael Caton.
I’m sure your saving people money on their next car, but with content like this you are saving people’s lives! This should be compulsory viewing for anyone buying a towbar…! One point of argument, as a frequent visitor or dingo piss creek, yes mud tyres and all, I have never seen any of these oversized spam vans up there, they are all down at the park comparing the sizes of their ‘vans’ whilst strutting around like overfed flamingos 🦩. The hardest decision is which souvenir stubby cooler to use on the tinnie tonight! Love your work, you should really get a gig with the department of education, this should be in the syllabus!
I'm here at the end, sitting on my arse, thinking "I'm never going to tow anything heavier than a pair of kayaks on a cut down 6 X 4 trailer behind my BT-50", but I still really enjoyed the engineering lesson. Cheers.
Just be cheap like me and opt not to get the tow bar fitted. "Pfft, I don't even own a trailer I don't need that." The amount of times I could have really used a tow bar.... But hey, at least I don't have to worry about all this shit.
John: Great information. Keep hammering on this subject. Here in the US I see so many pickups (Utes) with 30+ foot trailers and 5th wheelers driving at 70 mph. I will hate to see when one of these is in pieces all over the highway. My experience for safety towing 5500# is to not travel over 55 mph, the speed limit in many US states for three plus axels. Keep up the good work.
Amen brother. I’ve towed everything from a travel trailer to a tandem semi and these crashes are when the ratio of the driver idiocy quotient exceeds the mass of the vehicle to be towed.😊
I can't believe this kind of content is free! John has been teaching me the kind of physics I love for the past three years and I get it served with a great portion of humour and smiling! What more can a man ask for? (Ming moles not considered...)
I tow cars all all the time with my 04 F250 and car trailer all the time. Always engine at the front of the trailer, learnt that the hard way. Even it gets wobbly at times, the suspension on the car being towed moves the trailer around a lot.
Hi John, Rear axle overhang is important from the perspective of stability, less important than trailer loading for sure, but important enough to warrant consideration given the cost of improvement can be really quite low. In resisting the forces applied to the tow vehicle by the trailer, including in pitch and yaw, the trailer acts through that drawbar. That drawbar is a lever. Making it excessively long just gives a longer lever to the trailer to act upon. The downward force required to unload the front axle by a given amount is reduced by 1/3rd by going from 1m of overhang to 1.5m. It's a simple moment arm. Force times distance. Same story with every other force, for example the force applied laterally by the yaw intertia of the van upon the hitch is carried substantially by the grip the rear tyres have on the ground. Make the lever longer and less force will be required to overcome the friction between the tyres and road surface. The relative length of that lever changes depending on what you're actually considering, yaw intertia will act about the centre of mass of the vehicle, downward pitch about the centre of rotation of the rear axle, upward the front axle etc, but in all cases, the shorter the better. As you point out its not going to substantially affect the point about which the vehicle rotates, but it does have a not insubstantial affect on how much force is required to cause it to come unstuck in the first place. It's exactly the same deal as where you want to place loads in the tray. Get them as close to between the axles as possible. The trailer is just another point load placed in nearly the worst possible position. Whatever you can reasonably do to fix that, such as not using an extended drawbar tongue, should be done. Yes, if that change is the difference between stable or not stable, you've already properly fucked up, but it's a simple change that does have a positive effect and it's not something that costs much. Cost v benefit, definitely on the win side of the argument. Edit: I must also say, you've done a bloody good job of describing what can be a rather complicated thing to wrap your head around. Bravo Zulu.
After 7 decades done, a lot of this I've learned along the way through other means...BUT I wish someone like you had been my physics teacher. How many of us who have watched this video to the end, have endured physics (and other shit) instruction that was designed to kill the will to learn by way of formulas. Teaching isn't formulas...it's motivating to learn...and formulas do not create interest. You have the gift...and most likely endured the drones along the way. Thank you for this very informative video.
There are so many people in tbere new utes with the big caravan . Bullbar . Wheels . 2 wheels bolted on the back of the caravan .not to mention the roofrack on the ute that loaded to the hilt. And the back of the ute loaded too .Its a joke. I wish more people towing could watch the your videos. You have a way with words thats unique. Love you show. Thankyou.. i only drive a small pajero i0 no bullbar . No big tyres. Love it tks again. Regards Andy
Great information once again John. One aspect missing from your 'deep dive' was the significance of twin axel versus single axel on a caravan. Clearly there will be some influence from a larger road footprint and increased relative weight - but is it significant? Your views would be appreciated.
Would you ever advise someone to look at a light truck (Iveco, Isuzu, Hino, Fuso) if you actually wanted to tow 3.5t? A brand new car license derated 4x4 Fuso Canter Dual Cab cab chassis is cheaper than an MUX. - You just couldn't pick up the grandkids from school as easily.
Moments of Inertia, Radius of Gyration etc etc. I had 50yrs of it and thought I'd do the "auto dump" when I retired, but it's still there, lol. My example - 4x4 wagon, 3T tow, no bull bar - 1800kg ATM single axle van. When I load the 4by for a trip, it weighs around 40kg shy of GVM, the van with its 60lt water tank full, 25 kg shy of ATM. The 4by GCM is 5700kg, my total weight is 4555kg, which is 1145kg below the limit. Goes to show how close some criteria can get when only towing 60% of maximum. P.S. After weighing I did some serious pruning of what I carry. :) Thanks for the memories.
I don't know about doing "The Lap" but getting a Ute and a van and travelling around and taking time to smell the roses is appealing. I have always believed in safety buffers . A lot of the physical s I understand and so my thought is to buy a Triton and buy a van with a tare weight or around 2.1 tonnes Don't carry weight if you don't need to so even 200 litres of water can be filled when you get to where you want to go. Fill the back seat of the Ute and any other stuff over the rear wheels. Finally just because the speed limit says 100Kph it's not a target so travel 10 or so under and be considerate of other motorists so pull over and let them pass.
Not sure what camp fire's you've been going to, but the integrity of every structural component is critical when determining a vehicles towing capacity or engine size. People a lot smarter than me determine those factors through vigorous testing, firstly from the manufacturers themselves and other independent national standard bodies. A vehicle's towing capacity is the single most important factor when towing in the event of an accident, for insurance purposes etc
Truly enjoy this topic John. Funny enough I mentioned my liking of your UA-cam platform, whilst with a 1st class Truck driving educator, Michael, and he to emphasises, more people need to know the importance of towing with heavy loads.
The safest vicheals to tow with are the ones that have the shortest measurement between the center of the rear axle or the axels to the tow hitch. E.g 5th wheelers or tandom rear axle trucks with a turn table hitch above the axels centers, or a SUV with a short hitch to rear axle measurement. Because of this the utes suck for towing.
Lots of rigid European trucks with two or three axles pull a drawbar trailer, because the truck has a big rear overhang (to keep the front axle weight down to legal limits) the hitch is tucked right under very close to the rear axle, and the trailer has a great long drawbar, then two or three close coupled axles under the mass centre of the trailer. Often these trucks will have two 20' boxes and run at 44t all up, so a substantial trailer, but more manageable on twisty roads and at small depot sites.
Nice physics. I just want to say overhang does matter. Shortened the goose neck by 50 mm and removed some pitching. Improved horizontal looks of the car. ie less ball weight on the rear axle due to less leverage.
Back in the old days, when your license was issued from the copshop. (Maybe just the farm boy neighbourhood) my instructor/tester, told me to tow safely, vehicle should be around 20% heavier than the trailer load, only because he caught me towing while on my learners, a car trailer loaded with a tractor behind a combi van. He also taught me how to distribute weight over a trailer. They were the year’s before over regulation.
Hi John. Check out TJM on UA-cam as they have some videos on their bullbars and how they work with airbags. No I’m not disagreeing with you on your stance on bullbars but the research they have done on their design does impress me.
Thanks for that. Really informative, I actually understood all of that. But I am not thinking of towing but I have an 8 ton box body truck that I am loading up with all my stuff as a house truck. That angular velocity really talked me out of putting the really heavy batteries right at the back.
Thanks John, very informative and lots of food for thought, however experience has taught me to stay right away from these types of conversations, I just don’t care for the grief they so often cause. Thanks again.
Johnny, I don't agree with you explanation about the "overhang" subject. You forgot to account the rear wheels' friction as opposing reaction to the yawning imposed by the trailer. To explain it plain and simple, assume your vehicle as a beam (as this is how all engineers analyses the forces acting on a subject, in this case tow vehicle), you will have 3 forces acting on the beam, Fv, 2 x Wheel Reaction. Then analyse if it is stable or not using moment of torque formula analysis.
The magnitude of the lateral force imposed by the trailer is the most significant and also most highly variable factor, because rear-wheel grip (approx 0.9-1.0G on dry bitumen) and overhang on all vehicles is so similar. Therefore, there's no tremendous vehicle-centric variation across the range of dual-cabs. The biggest variation is lateral force times distance to the yaw centre.
@@AutoExpertJC that is true for new utes but there are many people watching these videos that either own or can only afford an older tow vehicle with dimensions that vary greatly from the current standard. You also have the situation of someone like me with a 25 year old 4×4 (only has seatbelts for safety features) that due to the way the rear door opens and spare wheel mounting some people choose to run extremely long towball mounts. This simple equation would guide people into better choices when they can't buy new.
The longer the distance from centre of yaw to the towball increases the force (torque) during the yaw. The 4 wheels provide an opposing force until it can’t. The opposing force of the wheels depend on the mass of the vehicle. The shorter the distance from towball to centre of yaw and heavier the vehicle the more stable the setup. Lc200 GCM is 6850kg. Less 3500kg = 3350 which is the GVM of the LC200 meaning it can be fully loaded and tow 3500kg. The Hilux have max towing at 3500 and GVM 3050 but GCM is 5650 therefore if the trailer is 3500kg the vehicle can only be 2150kg. But the Hilux tare is 2200kg
Another reason that rear wheel "overhang" is important, is that it increases the so called "Lever Effect", thereby increasing the actual weight applied on the rear axle. Example, an LC 200 with 350Kg on the towball, shows an addition 450Kg weight on the rear wheels on the scales. So the shorter the overhang, the shorter the "lever" and less increase in Tow BAll Weight at the axle.
The track width should be a non-issue, as it is almost standardized as you want to fit down all trails. The new US + sized have that issue. A lot of people do not understand the distance...
Great episode, John. I have the engineering background to understand all of this, and your explanation was brilliant. It’s a shame that tow capacity seems more in the hands of marketing than it should be. I wish tow ratings were subjected to a manufacturer’s test where a quick lane change is required, and see if the combination retains its composure or not.
Great video John, as a professional truck driver of 30 years, and with an aviation background……. I’m still amazed that some sort of “basics” towing school is not mandatory as part of any car licence extension , for any muppet who wants to tow stuff to dingo piss creek ect. I’ve seen some really dumb shit on the roads over the years…….. but just when you think you have seen it all….. the humans raise the bar even more. Gotta love those tank slappers that end in tears during the family grizwald vacation. Cheers🍻
A friend who does a lot of caravanning says that his caravan has a computerised stability system plus the brakes as well. Does this actually work in hairy situations or is it more of a marketing gimmick?
It extends the safety envelope, but it’s not infallible. Provided he doesn’t drive harder or try to “push the envelope”, it’s definitely worthwhile. The Trailer Stability system on my BT50 is one example, if it detects a sway building up, and it applies the brakes on one or two wheels if the vehicle (something I can’t do) to counteract the sway. Add the Vans ESC which applies the Vans brakes, again independently of my input, and it makes for a much safer rig. One problem is though, “I” never know if either system ever activates, thus it could be tempting to think it’s all more stable than it actually is and push that safety envelope in blissful ignorance; thus negating the advantages. Personally, I don’t tow the van over 90km/h.
Been towing car trailers for years to race tracks. mostly with FWD vehicles. To this day the amount of people I see towing cars that must have 3-400kg of tow ball down weight by having the tow'd car so far forward on the trailer out right baffles me. We always balance the tow'd vehicle over the trailer axle so that wee have ~50-80kg of down weight, so that the draw-bar is horizontal. The tow vehicle always feels balanced, never had the shakes or the tail wagging the dog. Cruise along at 110km/h no issues at al (aside from a significant reduction in fuel economy.) With any vehicle; (especially FWD) It's important to not overload the toe bar as has the effect of unloading the front wheels.
Wish all the physics teachers were as clear as your presentation! 👏👍👍 For the physics-challenged individual, *please* just walk around your rig and make if it looks like a monkey about to get f@&ked by an elephant, the load is TOO BIG for the towing vehicle. I saw an old 35’ trailer on a ball hitch being towed by 1/4 ton pickup in TX, with a LOT of tongue weight, which fit this definition and he would be lucky to get to his destination alive. (Hint: He was *driving too fast * and damn near went into a jackknife every time he got a bit out of control swaying, which was every time he hit a gust of wind.) I saw him pulled over so I stopped my rig and asked him WHY he was doing such a crazy thing. He said he thought it would be OK for a short run of 25 miles. I gave him the above advice and recommended that he NOT exceed 30 mph or call a friend with *at least* a ¾ ton truck that could handle both the tongue weight and the weight of the following load. I asked if he had brakes on the trailer, to which he replied “Yes,” but weren’t hooked up; I recommended that he get them to work SOMEHOW. If not, call his life insurance agent and make sure that his policy was paid up. PS The trailer had two, full 7-gallon propane tanks in the front. Those getting crushed in an accident would have been the icing on the cake!
It's great to hear it explained in "proper" terms. For years I've been arguing around the camp fire at DPC (where I visit on a regular basis in my 5 tonne Silverado and 3.5 tonne Bushtracker shitwah)... The basis of my argument was that a box trailer loaded with 3.5t of bricks will handle TOTALLY differently to a theoretical trailer consisting of a 60 foot "I" beam, also weighing 3.5t, despite both of them being well balanced and having a 10% download upon the ball of the tow vehicle. Dumb-arse dudes I was discussing this with refused to understand. So, eventually I just retreated to the shitwah and had my wicked way with my very own ming-mole! hahaha
Bull bars actually cause more damage,all bullbars a mounted low,an impact will fold the whole bar backwards pivoting on the mounts at the bottom,bull bar strength is only as good as it's mounts they fold first. After an impact you have a rigid structure slamming into all the front of your vertical high on the bonnet where there is no structure pushing the radiator back to be chewed up by the fan and other moving parts. This will happen no matter where the bar is hit. If you hit something with no bar the softer parts in the front fold back pushing the roo off to one side or down under the vehicle,vertically bouncing off. You see car or 4x4 that have hit something with a bar fitted and the owner says thank god I had that bar fitted,he hit it in front of the left headlight,now though he had 2 smashed headlights,the bonnet grill radiator all damaged ,without the bar, it have been just a front guard light,with the roo being deflected to one side. My advice would be to slow down,dip your lights once you see an animal,a animal that can't see because you have blinded him with your lights is a loose cannon,a roo will be more predictable if it can see. I have hit a couple of roos both came from nowhere,bounced onto road in one bound. I drove the vehical home both times.
It’s amazing now I have a 4WD how many times I get glazed look when I ask other people with utes that have every possible steel thing fitted to them “how’s your GVM”? It doesn’t seem to matter to them in the quest for steel surrounding “safety” apparently and I’m told frequently it doesn’t matter. I’m limiting my Triton to 2.5t towing as an absolute maximum. There are plenty of lightweight options under this for comfortable trailers and caravans. There’s no need, IMHO, to carry half a suburban house with you when getting away from it all.
This video could have been 2 minutes had John answered 1 question first. "what's the best tow vehicle taking into account the tow ball overhang past the rear axle"
Hi John, I occasionally tow a race car or associated wrecked cars for parts and or project cars etc. I tow with a Toyota Fortuner with a maximum trailer weight of 2200KG but usually it's much closer to 2000KG. I'm usually a pretty conservative driver when towing and try to tow between 90-100km/h. I am aware of the ESC stability control on caravans but don't fully understand it. Can you shed more light on this. Furthermore, it does sound like this technology could be applied to a car/implement trailer or horse float yet I cannot see anyone who has done this. Has it been done? Can it be done? If so why is it not more popular?
i think its alko that make an aftermarket trailer stability control. afaik it requires electric trailer braking. there is also ABS for trailers available. its not popular because it costs and most people don't give a crap about what they tow.
@@tweake7175 Alko refer to it being a caravan specific thing. Personally I think you're mad (not you personally) if you don't use or at least prefer electric brakes as they are so much nicer to tow with. I really don't know but I'd fit it in a heartbeat to a car trailer.
@@tweake7175 A high percentage of all larger vans sold these days, incluse Electronic Stability Control as standard. Jayco for example include it on all of their large vans. There are a number of manufacturers now.
@@tweake7175 Yeah overrides suck but they do the job, towing with electric brakes is much better but are you referring to override disc or the hydro electric disc? Or electric or override drums?
i wish i watched this video before towing a trailer full (!) of firewood on the german freeway this monday. whether it was the abs/esp/asr or that trailer stability thing they advertised, it did save my arse, overtaking a 40ton lorry when that silly tail waved my dog 0.o. out of ideas what to do i stepped on the breaks and after a second or two of rattling and blocking wheels the tail decided to follow the dog again. needless to say that i drove the rest of that journey behind the lorries. when i am done moving i'll give that borrowed 3 ton trailer back to my friend and use my little 2 ton without thinking i need a bigger one anymore.
The most important thing for stability in trailer stuff is speed. Second most important thing is where is mass in trailer. First if all you gotta have 5-10% load on towing vehicle otherwise when trailer start left right "dance".. you are screwed, because it never stops. Than we can talk about mass, overhang, power, 2x4, 4x4... Endless little things. When you increase speed from 80 to 100 km/h all shit is double. All side forces in corners, stoping distance, collision force in accident... All shit is double in just a bit more speed. You can even overload trailer and to towing vehicle but you gotta drive slow and nothing bad is gonna happen (most of the time 🤣😂).
Totally agree on speed as I discovered myself around 1992 rashly volunteering to move a VERY heavy steam boiler for a museum, towing a rented trailer with my 110 Defender. The probably 5 ton and grossly overweight albeit neutrally positioned load soon had me starting to sway. Fortunately I eased off the power very gently and recovered, adopted a 25mph limit and had no more scary moments. Apart that is from return of the trailer, hoping they didn't see the repaired broken welds where we'd had to repair it as had sagged badly.
Planning We are approaching retirement. Planning for local travel commenced several years ago with the following objectives and constraints: • Decision: Select conservatively matched vehicle and trailer. • Function: o Flexibility to stay in parks or “off grid” for 7 to 14 days as confidence develops. o Travel inland and coastal sealed and unsealed roads. o No toy cartage. No rock climbing / mud / water crossings. o Maintain and hold for ~15 years. • Trailer storage at home height restricted to ~1.8m. Research Sources used are probably typical and included: manufacturer specifications; commercial media; independent/enthusiast publishers; privately sourced fleet operator reliability estimates for vehicles; caravan and camping shows; dealerships. We don’t have engineering or trades backgrounds (my 20+ years experience in Vectra / Golf towing ~500kg ATM does not compare with this decision). Research efforts were made on: • Vehicles (dimensions, masses, engine and transmission operating characteristics, maintenance requirements). • Candidate vehicle frequent failure complaints, how they might be avoided or made less probable, how to minimise the cost and time to recover from them. • Wheels (size) and tyre (type, construction, aspect, profile, weight) suited to intended applications. • Components and machinery incorporated in trailer fit out (operating characteristics, maintenance requirements). Excluded from consideration were: • American style utes (cost, dimensions, flexibility, reliability). • Small European or Japanese trucks (cost, dimensions, flexibility). • Dual clutch or CVT transmissions (towing). • Tent (comfort, effort cf health). • Caravan (cost, risk v reward, reliability, storage). The discovery of information sources that exposed principles and facts related to applications, technologies and products have been invaluable. Examples included: www.autoexpert.com.au (generous in explaining technical subjects, humorous, and a little naughty) www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au (tyres, stability “An experimental investigation of car-trailer high-speed stability” Department of Mechanical Engineering at Bath University in the UK) www.4wdingaustralia.com www.outbackjoe.com ua-cam.com/users/DashCamOwnersAustralia (a regularly updated survey of mistakes made on our roads) www.engineeringtoolbox.com Our initial direction Was the purchase of a medium sized utility, canopy and trailer. No concensus emerged there. Vehicle variations were discarded (cost, comfort, flexibility, dimensions). Accommodation ideas persisted (pod camper and camper trailer). Our final direction Has been a 4wd wagon and trailer. Preferred vehicles included the Mitsubishi Pajero Sport and the ISUZU MU-X. Pod camper and camping trailer options were reduced to a single option each.
Decision The MU-X LS-U was selected (mass, low rpm torque, load space, contemporary safety package). The pod camper alternative was discarded after we had the opportunity to inspect one at a caravan show (size). We visited the camper trailer mfr at their Slacks Creek workshop and observed examples of the Trackabout Explora in stages of construction. Shortly afterward we had the opportunity to see a finished example at a caravan show in Melbourne. We were then comfortable enough to order a trailer. The decision will deliver workload within the performance envelope of the combination with margins of safety: Tyres Wheels Axles GVM/ATM GCM Towball/Hitch Limit Vehicle F 1250 1250 1450 2800 5900 350 R 1250 1250 1650 Trailer 1250 1250 2000 2000 3500 Actual Vehicle F 587 587 1173 2493(1) 3822 82 R 660 660 1319 Trailer 585 585 1411 1411(2) 82 (1) Vehicle payload 338kg includes fitout, driver, passenger, vehicle and personal items, towball mass. (2) Trailer payload 411kg includes 185L water. Negotiation Vehicle and trailer were ordered in 2022 (market conditions less than ideal). Vehicle discussions focussed on price. “All in” pricing (including $4k of options/accessories) varied by ~10% from least to most expensive, delivery lead time was 13 months. Trailer delivery lead time was 8 months. Adaptations • Replaced OEM vehicle wheels (R18) and tyres with accessory wheels (R17) and AT tyres (D697 LT). The wheel and tyre size were chosen for comfort, puncture resistance, sidewall tolerance for inflation variation, alignment with OEM profile and aspect. • Other vehicle adaptations included: brake controller; fused cable to Anderson plug; 12V compressor; load rated cargo net for wagon; wheel clamp; OBD II reader. • Trailer adaptations included: wheels and tyres matched to vehicle; battery charging incorporating 12V / 240V / solar; diesel heater. • Towing course for my wife and I. Closing Remarks John, AutoExpert has helped us consider many aspects of the research and decision making differently and more thoroughly than we might have done on our own. Our selection has been more systematic and exhaustive for your input. We are grateful for the time and effort you have put into explaining such a wide range of topics in a comprehensible manner in your reports.
I love the physics T shirt. Makes me think of Los Alamos and Eniwetok, where the worlds finest physicists were surprised to find that their exact calcs were out by a factor of 10. Still that is close enough for a physicist. Bloody fantastic explosions though.
Hiya John, I enjoy watching your videos on all vehicle related products, whether they be good or rubbish, but as I'm from the UK, we only have certain pickup trucks (UTES) here, but somehow, you talk a lot about the mid range UTE, for pulling upto 3.5 ton. But what I would like to know is you never mention the FORD F150, or ASV RAM 1500, or 2500, and whether ASV will be having the ECO DIESEL in the RAM 1500, I have a KIA Sportive, and never had a problem since purchased in 2017, and we don't get certain KIA vehicles like you do in AUSTRALIA, so you keep up the good work, entertaining your public. Karl Amos
“There’s no coming back from it being a hinge”- gotta love it!
Love the timing of the "save thousands on a new car" card
I am a student of physics (67 yrs old) and the way you presented this video was in realm of great instructors such as Julius Sumner Miller and Neil DeGrass Tysonthe.
You made learning interesting and unforgettable. May I say MALS again mate!
100% agree!! Was towing my 23” 1/2’ 2.8t van with a Hemi powered Jeep. Plenty of power and comfort it mostly towed with ease. One scary moment descending the snowy mountains at 20- 30kmh and I realised what I really already knew. Also found out what I should have known. It is not a car you can trust to get there. Most unreliable car and terrible after sales.
I now have an old F250 that was an off roader’s dream. I’ve had it brought back to a standard lift, got rid of the ridiculous 317 s and sold the Bull bar. Not a great environmental choice and I’ll pay a penalty on fuel and parking I know, but at least the tail won’t wag the dog so much ( I hope 🤞).
Keep up the great info and I hope it sinks in a bit.
Cheers
Mark
Mark
I would have done so much better at school if shit was explained to me like this
Perhaps. But don't discount the complimentary value of real world experience that you've gained since in assisting with the comprehension of the theory.
Wow John that was certainly a different feeling to your normal videos. It was a lot more refined without so much of the piss taking and very well explained. I would like to just make a couple of points. You said that when the airbags go off you won’t remember it and that a crash at over 60km/h is hit and miss as to whether or not you survive. You are so right on both accounts as in April 2020 my wife and I were hit head on by a car with a drug affected driver that crossed onto our side of the road. We were in a 2010 VE ute and he and his mate were in a 1998 Kia Rio , we were travelling at 80km/h and him probably more. I didn’t have time to even get my foot to the brake pedal and he didn’t bother.
I remember absolutely nothing of the airbags deploying and yes it was fatal as the two in the Kia were both killed. The two things that saved our lives were physics, our car was bigger than his, and the safety devices built into the car. Looking at photos months later I could see how the safety cell was still in shape even though inside the cabin looked like a bomb had gone off. The impact even creased both rear quarters above the wheel arches. Yes we were smashed up pretty bad and still have a long recovery road ahead but we survived with mainly lots of broken bones.
We replaced the VE with a brand new Sahara to improve the odds and chose the Sahara it was the only Cruiser to offer all the safety gear.
Most of my friends were surprised when I said no I won’t be getting a bull bar. Like you I don’t like them. I don’t like the look of them and I would hate to hit a pedestrian with one of those on the front. I can’t figure out how they’re still legal when car manufacturers have to design their cars to mitigate pedestrian injuries. I’ve had other Land Cruises over a period of thirty years all fitted with a bull bar and traveled to a lot of remote places yet I’ve never hit anything. Luck has played a part but so has the advice you gave. I tried to always off the road by mid afternoon and never drove at night and I like my sleep to much to be up and away early. Of course I got the same question “what if you hit a kangaroo” and my answer is “that’s what insurance is for”. Lastly one thing caravan owners, me included, can do to reduce the risk of your van getting a dose of the wobbles and throwing you of the road and landing upside down in a ditch is to fit stability control to the van. Most new vans either come with it or it’s optional and there are several brands offering kits that can be retro fitted to older vans. Thanks for an excellent presentation. Cheers Stuart.
in saying this being stuck in the middle of nowhere with a vehicle that was disabled only because you didnt have a bullbar to keep your living ass trucking until you can get somewhere it can get repaired is nice, especially offroad. i lost windscreen wipers when i really needed them in a remote place without mobile coverage once only because i lacked a bullbar. a bullbar would have made getting home a whole lot safer
I was once towing a car trailer with a barred out speedway car on it, when it started to fishtail rather violently while going down an incline.. Instinct said accelerate, but self preservation said brake heavily so that when it rolls over , it will be at reduced speed. I chose brake heavily and eventually the wild fishtailing stopped. Lesson learnt..slow down to a sensible speed when towing.
Get an electric trailer brake controller! Just grab the manual override and it'll stop sway ;)
Just got home from a 17k km trip towing our 2019 Jayco Silverline with our Ford Everest. The is our second caravan, and we have learn to downsize, not take gear that you never use. We no longer take a generator, only basis tools. The full loaded rig was put over a weight bridge before we left. The vehicle has been left standard, but for a brake controller. We had a great trip, avoiding the winter months in Perth. John's comments about tyres are so true, you end up with a nice ride with lower road noise.
Smart man! Your survivors won’t have to try to get your life insurance payment!
Would be educational to give people an idea of weights and forces of trucks. This could help people drive accordingly around heavy vehicles. A lot of people don't know that a loaded B Double weighs in at around 63 Tonne . I have had people ask questions about trucks at Servo's and when you tell them that it's 6o odd Tonne they're blown away , they have no idea. Good video mate.
But now we know! Thanks Ken, I knew the buggers were heavy, but no numbers to go by.
So I’m watching the video thinking to myself: “What’s all of this bleeding from the ears, stuff? This doesn’t seem so hard to understand.” And then it hits me: it’s not that this is so simple to understand. It’s the way you manage to put it in terms that a dum-dum like me can understand (at least at the most shallow of levels). Thank you, John. I must say, beer garden physics is hands down my favorite content from this channel :)
I had a classic, well disturbing situation unfold in front of me today in Maryborough, rural Victoria. Whilst travelling through said town, no lockdown for us rurally, I was behind a small single cab tray ute. The old guy was towing a box trailer with a industrial cube water container holding I’m guessing up to a 1,000L/1000kg. From the outset it was bloody obvious the weight he was towing was too heavy for his vehicle. As he continued in front of me at 60kph, I thought this could turn nasty. As he came to a corner to turn off, I could see he was not only going too fast but also braked too late. As he turned the corner, the laden trailer just unhitched complete from his small tray ute & shot up the road in front of me at speed! Eventually gravity on the trailer steered it to off the sealed road, the chassis submerged into the gravel & launched the water storage container into the air! The trailer bucked a few times before flipping onto its top. The whole time which was maybe 5-10 seconds, the old guy continued down the side street not even realising he’d lost his bloody trailer. I pulled over to assess the situation, & he was nowhere to be seen. Another driver pulled over, & said he’d call the police. Thankfully the trailer & said load were completely off the road.
The lockdown in the Knee of Syd isn't all bad news, especially if it means that John is making more deep-dive beer garden physics content. Yessssssssssssss!
I think cccxccouuugghhhh wwhhheeeeze I agree
With lockdown now in sheepshagastan, Im thankful for John's channel. Now back to online shopping, just wish there was JC merch.
37:00 Bullbars - the eternal compromise between "animal impact" and "head-on with another vehicle, or a tree". We spent a long time deciding on this one, and I freely admit that I'd prefer the "no bar" option, as most of the time our 4x4 is on-road, in traffic and motorway driving. But recently a skippy lost the argument with the bull-bar, "out bush", and without the bar the damage would have been considerable (disabled the vehicle). As it was, nothing more than some cracked plastic (inspected by installer to be certain of no frame damage).and the number plate took yet another hit. If you never "go bush" then a bullbar is just a wank.
Thanks for that. This has been a debate for me for a while too. As it is, my current tug has a nudge bar, so not sure if this is a good compromise between BB and no BB. Its a standard fitment from the manufacturer and looks like its beefy enough, including the mounting points on the chassis, but like you, I guess time will tell. I figure I can always bend a fender that's been crushed onto the wheel to get me out of a pickle.
Last sentence is gospel.
Toorak tractor stuff.
When I first met the Child Bride, her ride was an XB Chooktin Wagon, and a bloody big made in and for use around Cunnamulla Alloy Bullbar.
Designed to allow you to complete your trip after a roo strike.
And no Skippy ever got up again to go back to the Ranger Station to tell Sonny all about the experience.
My point is, that bar was a menace, actually annoying in town. But at 120+, out there, needed.
BTW, the XB was the last good Ford. Prove me wrong.
If you think about it, a kangaroo is just a funny-shaped crash test dummy. It's still a big fleshy animal hitting the front of the vehicle, which engineers have already designed for hitting big fleshy homosapiens.
Skippy was a stinking New South Wales Kangeroo anyway, cause Matt Hammonds’ XW wagon had a Thanks Warra, Tar on the doors.
I had the hots for Clancy but.
@@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars like a cyclist only more rational and more lovable, right?
That’s one of the must see informative video for everyone who sat or contemplate sitting behind a wheel including D shaped ones to drive a vehicle whether he will ever intend to make the sojourn to Dingo Piss creek or won’t. I haven’t finished viewing the entire video yet but sampling the first few minutes tell you about the whole video.
Bloody good video John more subdued than normal 😂. This should be compulsory viewing for all who are thinking of getting into towing and get fed bullshit from multiple sources. 👍
Hi John, Love your videos and educated technical explanation and analysis.
I tow a 3200kg caravan behind a 105 series Landcruiser (yes I know) and have long grappled with blue knuckle syndrome due to the inherent instability of the system.
I have towed around Australia a couple of time and have come up with a theory as to why my knuckles turn blue. I have an electronic engineering background (not mechanical) so I may be dilutional (for one reason or another). The problem which I have encountered is a fundamental instability in the tow "system" (tow vehicle with attached caravan), primarily at highway speed.
I agree that all the elements you have highlighted play a part in this instability, however I suggest the "primary" issue for the instability is that a positive feedback loop exist between the caravan and tow vehicle.
The positive feedback exists because the hitch point of the caravan is located behind the rear axle of the tow vehicle. A random yaw moment in the caravan causes a yaw moment in the tow vehicle with an opposite angle of rotation. As the tow vehicle corrects itself (naturally or from driver input), with a yaw moment in the opposite direction, this rotation is transferred back to the caravan with an direction of rotation opposite to the initial yaw moment. Hence producing a positive feedback loop with a potential runaway characteristic.
This is why you see these videos of a caravan or boat oscillating a couple of times and then swaying so violently that they end up rolling over.
If the hitch point was to be located in front of the rear axle the feedback loop would be negative and hence any yaw moment induced into the tow vehicle would produce a self damping affect.
I suggest this is also why semi-trailers the "fifth wheeler" configurations are stable.
All right I can handle it, dish it out, I am ready for it..... OR If I am right then you must be ..... well ..... ?
Regards
Eddy
I find installing a 5th wheel on double cabs to be quite difficult because as John puts it, the rear axle is practically in the passenger area or very close to it. So getting the vertical loading precisely on the drive axle is not gonna be easy, considering that you must also include the “interference” aspect where the trailer tracks the tow vehicle.
Semi trailer's have the axle at the back which eliminates sway.
Dear John,
applause - even standing ovations to your explanaitions.
I studied geology/paläontoöogy with the focus on climatology/claciology. That includes physics, mathamatics an so on.
Yet, being more passionized for driving on ice and snow than analizing it I do work as commercial driver.
If it comes to of "fanboy-arguments" around the detail "overhang" in tow-discussions in campers', boaters' or even truckers' beergardens, I did notice this: the less knowledge of physics and the less skills in driving somebode actually has, the more the idea of "overhang" is supported with rage and blood.
And the reason for that is this: if you put your gear in reverse with a trailer hooked to the towball, then it's going to go more easy to taxi around the longer the "overhang" is and the more fanboy of an as long as possible "overhang" the driver is under all circunstances thinkable while driving.
Dunning-Krüger at its best.
Whenever you have "physics" in the title I'm watching the video. I love this stuff. I kept pausing the video to read your T-shirt .. so many memories! I like some of the electrical symbols .. maybe a parody of us "sparky" types?
P.S. I drove the big 18 wheelers in "murica" and I know they dont compare to some of the multi-trailer trucks in Oz, but I had harder times backing boat trailers than the big rigs. They were so "squirrely" compared the big stable tractor-trailer rigs, so take your comments about stability to heart. Well done explanation of the physics .. you should teach if your journalism carrier dries up :)
Seeing John explaining a very informative and important topic and not mocking around or saying things that make us laugh, Im not used to it.😁👍
Thank you for this excellent video and for explaining a complex topic in a way I could understand. This should be mandatory viewing for anyone towing a trailer that is heavy enough to require trailer brakes.
Best towing vehicle for a car licence: Hino 616 Long Wheelbase 4.5T. You can always throw on a Dual Cab or 2T of gravel, for good measure.
Very informative video many people towing large vans are in denial with regard to weights , recently weighing our LC 200 & van on the Sunshine Coast the guy operating the scales mentioned the towies are directed to bring the car and van to the scales for weighing after a major accident .result over loaded =no insurance. I am more than happy my van weight is 2480 kg fully loaded LC was 3.100 kg.cheers Ian.
When I draw the engineering theory of towing I draw the actual thing when it goes wrong. A plate of spaghetti shows the directions one goes in once losing control
Finally! An episode about towing! 😃
Love my MQ Triton. Shortest wheelbase of all the dual cabs (I suspect), great turning circle. Also has a distance between rear axle and tow ball that I, myself (and any Archimedes out there) realise is so long as to create Serious Handling Issues Towing (S.H.I.T.), anything over about two thirds of the Recommended Overall Load Limit Of Vehicle Engineered Requirements (R.O.L.L.O.V.E.R.). Misunderstanding these considerations could well result in discovering that Dingo Piss Creek can sometimes be found in ones underwear!
Overhang is the most underrated factor. L.Cruiser single cab utes for example
Overhang past the rear axle to the tow hitch is the second most important thing for towing safety. The shorter the better. E.g, tandom axle trucks with turntable, 5th wheelers, SUVs.
I have the 2l Ranger and have not experienced any problem with hunting through the gears when towing either. My toy hauler weighs about 2100 kg the Ranger does a much better job of following it than the MUX before it. If I leave it to is own devices when towing it will rarely go into 9th of 10th, so I usually lock those 2 out and it happily sits in 8th, only changing down when the hill gets a bit steep. I think our guy with the 3 tonne Ranger and 3 tonne trailer combo is probably over loading the tow vehicle though as the trailer should impose around 300kgs of is weight on the tow vehicle putting it at about 3.3 tonne. GVM for the Ranger is 3.2 tonne
Extra trans oil cooler on the Ranger? They are a good idea
Ok, don’t laugh! I’m a retired shop owner in the US, I ran across John’s channel about 5 years ago and I really enjoy his entertaining presentations. I’ve noticed something in the past and this video really put it in perspective. By all his descriptions of vehicles used for towing can I assume Australia does not import any 4 door long bed 3/4 and 1 ton pickup trucks? If that is the case is it because of size, price economy (or lack thereof) or a combination. Great vid, I’m forwarding this to several old customers who really need some help with this subject!
Only just started importing them in big numbers in the last 12 months
Probably cause they don't make them in RHD.
@@flipperdick1796 I hadn’t thought of that, you’re probably right. I’ve seen a few Fords with RHD but they were older but never a GM or Chrysler product. That’s probably good for you folks Chrysler product have been a pain in one way or another since the 1960’s. Thanks!
I find the US truck type Utes to be too large for our relatively narrow road lanes (and car parks). They truly are a wide vehicle compared to something like a Hilux; even the Dodge RAM (if you must buy a Fiat Chrysler product) is wider. As others have indicated, cost and lack of factory RHD versions appear to be a contributing factor.
@@elaineandlindsaymchock6718 Thank you for your input, I’m getting a quick education on driving conditions in your country. You are so right about Chrysler products, their current reputation goes back to the 1960’s and 1970’s with most of the people I know. Most allDiesel mechanics will tell you the Cummins is by far the best diesel, it’s only issue I our domestic truck market is it’s surrounded by a Chrysler product. Thanks again.
Great episode John. Your example of explaining inertia was brilliant. Just an inclusion of uniform density with the comment on dimensions would make it more complete.
John, that was one if the best videos you’ve done. Ive sent it to my caravanning friends I HATE THEM). Too many years of bring stuck behind them between QLD and VIC. Love your content. Michael Caton.
Knows his stuff and even better is a competent communicator. Intelligence on display. Thanks!
Great video John, thank you for laying it out in a way so that i can make sure our setup is as safe as is possible.
I’m sure your saving people money on their next car, but with content like this you are saving people’s lives!
This should be compulsory viewing for anyone buying a towbar…!
One point of argument, as a frequent visitor or dingo piss creek, yes mud tyres and all, I have never seen any of these oversized spam vans up there, they are all down at the park comparing the sizes of their ‘vans’ whilst strutting around like overfed flamingos 🦩. The hardest decision is which souvenir stubby cooler to use on the tinnie tonight!
Love your work, you should really get a gig with the department of education, this should be in the syllabus!
Johnny! What a coincidence! I was just about to check if I have a YT physics/maths notification...
I'm here at the end, sitting on my arse, thinking "I'm never going to tow anything heavier than a pair of kayaks on a cut down 6 X 4 trailer behind my BT-50", but I still really enjoyed the engineering lesson.
Cheers.
You never know, those kayaks may some day be made of gold.
@@BenMitro Sweet!
@@govshill4557 That would be a good problem to have..."how can I tow these 2.5 t kayaks on my 6x4?"!
Just be cheap like me and opt not to get the tow bar fitted. "Pfft, I don't even own a trailer I don't need that." The amount of times I could have really used a tow bar....
But hey, at least I don't have to worry about all this shit.
There is an allowable limit on draw bar down force, so when anyone is weighing the grey nomad combo, please remember to check that too!
Remember the days when you could go towing? Or driving? Travelling.
I once towed a Kingswood with a Jeep Cherokee. Ask me how it went.
I hope the kingswood is ok!
@@kennyknackers6084 There's a reason JC says, 'Don't buy a demonstrator'. (It was a press vehicle.)
John: Great information. Keep hammering on this subject. Here in the US I see so many pickups (Utes) with 30+ foot trailers and 5th wheelers driving at 70 mph. I will hate to see when one of these is in pieces all over the highway. My experience for safety towing 5500# is to not travel over 55 mph, the speed limit in many US states for three plus axels. Keep up the good work.
Amen brother. I’ve towed everything from a travel trailer to a tandem semi and these crashes are when the ratio of the driver idiocy quotient exceeds the mass of the vehicle to be towed.😊
I can't believe this kind of content is free! John has been teaching me the kind of physics I love for the past three years and I get it served with a great portion of humour and smiling!
What more can a man ask for?
(Ming moles not considered...)
I tow cars all all the time with my 04 F250 and car trailer all the time. Always engine at the front of the trailer, learnt that the hard way. Even it gets wobbly at times, the suspension on the car being towed moves the trailer around a lot.
There speaks the voice of *hard* experience!
Hi John,
Rear axle overhang is important from the perspective of stability, less important than trailer loading for sure, but important enough to warrant consideration given the cost of improvement can be really quite low.
In resisting the forces applied to the tow vehicle by the trailer, including in pitch and yaw, the trailer acts through that drawbar. That drawbar is a lever.
Making it excessively long just gives a longer lever to the trailer to act upon. The downward force required to unload the front axle by a given amount is reduced by 1/3rd by going from 1m of overhang to 1.5m. It's a simple moment arm. Force times distance.
Same story with every other force, for example the force applied laterally by the yaw intertia of the van upon the hitch is carried substantially by the grip the rear tyres have on the ground. Make the lever longer and less force will be required to overcome the friction between the tyres and road surface.
The relative length of that lever changes depending on what you're actually considering, yaw intertia will act about the centre of mass of the vehicle, downward pitch about the centre of rotation of the rear axle, upward the front axle etc, but in all cases, the shorter the better.
As you point out its not going to substantially affect the point about which the vehicle rotates, but it does have a not insubstantial affect on how much force is required to cause it to come unstuck in the first place.
It's exactly the same deal as where you want to place loads in the tray. Get them as close to between the axles as possible. The trailer is just another point load placed in nearly the worst possible position. Whatever you can reasonably do to fix that, such as not using an extended drawbar tongue, should be done.
Yes, if that change is the difference between stable or not stable, you've already properly fucked up, but it's a simple change that does have a positive effect and it's not something that costs much. Cost v benefit, definitely on the win side of the argument.
Edit:
I must also say, you've done a bloody good job of describing what can be a rather complicated thing to wrap your head around.
Bravo Zulu.
if you ever decide youve had enough of cars, please become a physics professor, the students from that class would be next level aweseome for sure!!
After 7 decades done, a lot of this I've learned along the way through other means...BUT I wish someone like you had been my physics teacher.
How many of us who have watched this video to the end, have endured physics (and other shit) instruction that was designed to kill the will to learn by way of formulas.
Teaching isn't formulas...it's motivating to learn...and formulas do not create interest.
You have the gift...and most likely endured the drones along the way.
Thank you for this very informative video.
I hated physics in school. Turns out I actually really like physics, I just hated doing nothing but memorising formulas.
Your education service John, is exceptional and a community service bar none. Thanks.
There are so many people in tbere new utes with the big caravan . Bullbar . Wheels . 2 wheels bolted on the back of the caravan .not to mention the roofrack on the ute that loaded to the hilt. And the back of the ute loaded too .Its a joke. I wish more people towing could watch the your videos. You have a way with words thats unique. Love you show. Thankyou.. i only drive a small pajero i0 no bullbar . No big tyres. Love it tks again. Regards Andy
Great information once again John. One aspect missing from your 'deep dive' was the significance of twin axel versus single axel on a caravan. Clearly there will be some influence from a larger road footprint and increased relative weight - but is it significant? Your views would be appreciated.
Would you ever advise someone to look at a light truck (Iveco, Isuzu, Hino, Fuso) if you actually wanted to tow 3.5t?
A brand new car license derated 4x4 Fuso Canter Dual Cab cab chassis is cheaper than an MUX. - You just couldn't pick up the grandkids from school as easily.
yes, he has recomended a iveco daily 4x4 before...
Moments of Inertia, Radius of Gyration etc etc. I had 50yrs of it and thought I'd do the "auto dump" when I retired, but it's still there, lol. My example - 4x4 wagon, 3T tow, no bull bar - 1800kg ATM single axle van. When I load the 4by for a trip, it weighs around 40kg shy of GVM, the van with its 60lt water tank full, 25 kg shy of ATM. The 4by GCM is 5700kg, my total weight is 4555kg, which is 1145kg below the limit. Goes to show how close some criteria can get when only towing 60% of maximum. P.S. After weighing I did some serious pruning of what I carry. :) Thanks for the memories.
I don't know about doing "The Lap" but getting a Ute and a van and travelling around and taking time to smell the roses is appealing.
I have always believed in safety buffers .
A lot of the physical s I understand and so my thought is to buy a Triton and buy a van with a tare weight or around 2.1 tonnes
Don't carry weight if you don't need to so even 200 litres of water can be filled when you get to where you want to go.
Fill the back seat of the Ute and any other stuff over the rear wheels.
Finally just because the speed limit says 100Kph it's not a target so travel 10 or so under and be considerate of other motorists so pull over and let them pass.
Good work. This will see me through till 11 when Gladys covid bingo starts. Yessssssss! 🤣
Not sure what camp fire's you've been going to, but the integrity of every structural component is critical when determining a vehicles towing capacity or engine size. People a lot smarter than me determine those factors through vigorous testing, firstly from the manufacturers themselves and other independent national standard bodies.
A vehicle's towing capacity is the single most important factor when towing in the event of an accident, for insurance purposes etc
I love the nitty gritty. Cheers!
Truly enjoy this topic John. Funny enough I mentioned my liking of your UA-cam platform, whilst with a 1st class Truck driving educator, Michael, and he to emphasises, more people need to know the importance of towing with heavy loads.
The safest vicheals to tow with are the ones that have the shortest measurement between the center of the rear axle or the axels to the tow hitch. E.g 5th wheelers or tandom rear axle trucks with a turn table hitch above the axels centers, or a SUV with a short hitch to rear axle measurement. Because of this the utes suck for towing.
Technically, the safest is tracked platform. A light 20 ton tank for example is excellent towing platform.
Lots of rigid European trucks with two or three axles pull a drawbar trailer, because the truck has a big rear overhang (to keep the front axle weight down to legal limits) the hitch is tucked right under very close to the rear axle, and the trailer has a great long drawbar, then two or three close coupled axles under the mass centre of the trailer. Often these trucks will have two 20' boxes and run at 44t all up, so a substantial trailer, but more manageable on twisty roads and at small depot sites.
@@hectorkidds9840 flat bed trucks have the advantage of an extra long wheel base which also eliminates swing.
@@GuitarsRockForever my D4c was exelent for towing but could only do about 10 k/h. So no hairy scary stuff anyway.
Nice physics. I just want to say overhang does matter. Shortened the goose neck by 50 mm and removed some pitching. Improved horizontal looks of the car. ie less ball weight on the rear axle due to less leverage.
Back in the old days, when your license was issued from the copshop. (Maybe just the farm boy neighbourhood) my instructor/tester, told me to tow safely, vehicle should be around 20% heavier than the trailer load, only because he caught me towing while on my learners, a car trailer loaded with a tractor behind a combi van. He also taught me how to distribute weight over a trailer. They were the year’s before over regulation.
Thanks John, bloody interesting.
Public education broadcasting at its finest. You also have a gift for teaching, brilliant video, thank you!
If you are over weight on your combined vehicle mass, then insurance would also be an issue when the rubber leaves the road, I’d suggest.
Appreciate the tech talk as an engineer.
As a Physics teacher, I'm just enjoying watching someone who is really good at my job.
Thank you, S D. Occupational hazard...
Amen brother! Good info!
I have a tray slider in my ute, makes loading so much easier
Good pun , the weight distribution is "Pivotal"
I'll now be using this video to justify ordering a new RAM 2500
Hi John. Check out TJM on UA-cam as they have some videos on their bullbars and how they work with airbags. No I’m not disagreeing with you on your stance on bullbars but the research they have done on their design does impress me.
I get to watch most of your Utube clips understood most of this stuff (non tec) but this clip is really done well
Thanks for that. Really informative, I actually understood all of that. But I am not thinking of towing but I have an 8 ton box body truck that I am loading up with all my stuff as a house truck. That angular velocity really talked me out of putting the really heavy batteries right at the back.
Thanks John, very informative and lots of food for thought, however experience has taught me to stay right away from these types of conversations, I just don’t care for the grief they so often cause. Thanks again.
Johnny, I don't agree with you explanation about the "overhang" subject. You forgot to account the rear wheels' friction as opposing reaction to the yawning imposed by the trailer. To explain it plain and simple, assume your vehicle as a beam (as this is how all engineers analyses the forces acting on a subject, in this case tow vehicle), you will have 3 forces acting on the beam, Fv, 2 x Wheel Reaction. Then analyse if it is stable or not using moment of torque formula analysis.
The magnitude of the lateral force imposed by the trailer is the most significant and also most highly variable factor, because rear-wheel grip (approx 0.9-1.0G on dry bitumen) and overhang on all vehicles is so similar. Therefore, there's no tremendous vehicle-centric variation across the range of dual-cabs. The biggest variation is lateral force times distance to the yaw centre.
@@AutoExpertJC that is true for new utes but there are many people watching these videos that either own or can only afford an older tow vehicle with dimensions that vary greatly from the current standard. You also have the situation of someone like me with a 25 year old 4×4 (only has seatbelts for safety features) that due to the way the rear door opens and spare wheel mounting some people choose to run extremely long towball mounts. This simple equation would guide people into better choices when they can't buy new.
The longer the distance from centre of yaw to the towball increases the force (torque) during the yaw. The 4 wheels provide an opposing force until it can’t. The opposing force of the wheels depend on the mass of the vehicle. The shorter the distance from towball to centre of yaw and heavier the vehicle the more stable the setup. Lc200 GCM is 6850kg. Less 3500kg = 3350 which is the GVM of the LC200 meaning it can be fully loaded and tow 3500kg. The Hilux have max towing at 3500 and GVM 3050 but GCM is 5650 therefore if the trailer is 3500kg the vehicle can only be 2150kg. But the Hilux tare is 2200kg
Another reason that rear wheel "overhang" is important, is that it increases the so called "Lever Effect", thereby increasing the actual weight applied on the rear axle.
Example, an LC 200 with 350Kg on the towball, shows an addition 450Kg weight on the rear wheels on the scales. So the shorter the overhang, the shorter the "lever" and less increase in Tow BAll Weight at the axle.
The track width should be a non-issue, as it is almost standardized as you want to fit down all trails. The new US + sized have that issue.
A lot of people do not understand the distance...
Great episode, John. I have the engineering background to understand all of this, and your explanation was brilliant. It’s a shame that tow capacity seems more in the hands of marketing than it should be. I wish tow ratings were subjected to a manufacturer’s test where a quick lane change is required, and see if the combination retains its composure or not.
Great video John, as a professional truck driver of 30 years, and with an aviation background……. I’m still amazed that some sort of “basics” towing school is not mandatory as part of any car licence extension , for any muppet who wants to tow stuff to dingo piss creek ect.
I’ve seen some really dumb shit on the roads over the years…….. but just when you think you have seen it all….. the humans raise the bar even more.
Gotta love those tank slappers that end in tears during the family grizwald vacation. Cheers🍻
Thank you for bringing reality to the table
A friend who does a lot of caravanning says that his caravan has a computerised stability system plus the brakes as well. Does this actually work in hairy situations or is it more of a marketing gimmick?
It extends the safety envelope, but it’s not infallible. Provided he doesn’t drive harder or try to “push the envelope”, it’s definitely worthwhile. The Trailer Stability system on my BT50 is one example, if it detects a sway building up, and it applies the brakes on one or two wheels if the vehicle (something I can’t do) to counteract the sway. Add the Vans ESC which applies the Vans brakes, again independently of my input, and it makes for a much safer rig. One problem is though, “I” never know if either system ever activates, thus it could be tempting to think it’s all more stable than it actually is and push that safety envelope in blissful ignorance; thus negating the advantages. Personally, I don’t tow the van over 90km/h.
You just keep getting better with these videos.
Been towing car trailers for years to race tracks. mostly with FWD vehicles. To this day the amount of people I see towing cars that must have 3-400kg of tow ball down weight by having the tow'd car so far forward on the trailer out right baffles me.
We always balance the tow'd vehicle over the trailer axle so that wee have ~50-80kg of down weight, so that the draw-bar is horizontal. The tow vehicle always feels balanced, never had the shakes or the tail wagging the dog. Cruise along at 110km/h no issues at al (aside from a significant reduction in fuel economy.) With any vehicle; (especially FWD) It's important to not overload the toe bar as has the effect of unloading the front wheels.
Wish all the physics teachers were as clear as your presentation! 👏👍👍
For the physics-challenged individual, *please* just walk around your rig and make if it looks like a monkey about to get f@&ked by an elephant, the load is TOO BIG for the towing vehicle.
I saw an old 35’ trailer on a ball hitch being towed by 1/4 ton pickup in TX, with a LOT of tongue weight, which fit this definition and he would be lucky to get to his destination alive. (Hint: He was *driving too fast * and damn near went into a jackknife every time he got a bit out of control swaying, which was every time he hit a gust of wind.)
I saw him pulled over so I stopped my rig and asked him WHY he was doing such a crazy thing. He said he thought it would be OK for a short run of 25 miles. I gave him the above advice and recommended that he NOT exceed 30 mph or call a friend with *at least* a ¾ ton truck that could handle both the tongue weight and the weight of the following load. I asked if he had brakes on the trailer, to which he replied “Yes,” but weren’t hooked up; I recommended that he get them to work SOMEHOW. If not, call his life insurance agent and make sure that his policy was paid up.
PS The trailer had two, full 7-gallon propane tanks in the front. Those getting crushed in an accident would have been the icing on the cake!
bloody gr8 show bro if u can maybe some more on towing 4 safety reasons please
It's great to hear it explained in "proper" terms. For years I've been arguing around the camp fire at DPC (where I visit on a regular basis in my 5 tonne Silverado and 3.5 tonne Bushtracker shitwah)...
The basis of my argument was that a box trailer loaded with 3.5t of bricks will handle TOTALLY differently to a theoretical trailer consisting of a 60 foot "I" beam, also weighing 3.5t, despite both of them being well balanced and having a 10% download upon the ball of the tow vehicle.
Dumb-arse dudes I was discussing this with refused to understand. So, eventually I just retreated to the shitwah and had my wicked way with my very own ming-mole! hahaha
John thanks for your efforts, could you do a show on single axle Dolly car trailer/Gypsy trailers behind RVs. Bob.
Bull bars actually cause more damage,all bullbars a mounted low,an impact will fold the whole bar backwards pivoting on the mounts at the bottom,bull bar strength is only as good as it's mounts they fold first.
After an impact you have a rigid structure slamming into all the front of your vertical high on the bonnet where there is no structure pushing the radiator back to be chewed up by the fan and other moving parts.
This will happen no matter where the bar is hit.
If you hit something with no bar the softer parts in the front fold back pushing the roo off to one side or down under the vehicle,vertically bouncing off.
You see car or 4x4 that have hit something with a bar fitted and the owner says thank god I had that bar fitted,he hit it in front of the left headlight,now though he had 2 smashed headlights,the bonnet grill radiator all damaged ,without the bar, it have been just a front guard light,with the roo being deflected to one side.
My advice would be to slow down,dip your lights once you see an animal,a animal that can't see because you have blinded him with your lights is a loose cannon,a roo will be more predictable if it can see.
I have hit a couple of roos both came from nowhere,bounced onto road in one bound.
I drove the vehical home both times.
It’s amazing now I have a 4WD how many times I get glazed look when I ask other people with utes that have every possible steel thing fitted to them “how’s your GVM”? It doesn’t seem to matter to them in the quest for steel surrounding “safety” apparently and I’m told frequently it doesn’t matter.
I’m limiting my Triton to 2.5t towing as an absolute maximum. There are plenty of lightweight options under this for comfortable trailers and caravans. There’s no need, IMHO, to carry half a suburban house with you when getting away from it all.
One of the best videos from you John made a lot of sense thanks again.
This video could have been 2 minutes had John answered 1 question first. "what's the best tow vehicle taking into account the tow ball overhang past the rear axle"
You went real deep with this one John.
Hi John, I occasionally tow a race car or associated wrecked cars for parts and or project cars etc. I tow with a Toyota Fortuner with a maximum trailer weight of 2200KG but usually it's much closer to 2000KG. I'm usually a pretty conservative driver when towing and try to tow between 90-100km/h.
I am aware of the ESC stability control on caravans but don't fully understand it. Can you shed more light on this. Furthermore, it does sound like this technology could be applied to a car/implement trailer or horse float yet I cannot see anyone who has done this. Has it been done? Can it be done? If so why is it not more popular?
i think its alko that make an aftermarket trailer stability control. afaik it requires electric trailer braking.
there is also ABS for trailers available.
its not popular because it costs and most people don't give a crap about what they tow.
@@tweake7175 Alko refer to it being a caravan specific thing. Personally I think you're mad (not you personally) if you don't use or at least prefer electric brakes as they are so much nicer to tow with. I really don't know but I'd fit it in a heartbeat to a car trailer.
@@TheSouthern75 we use overrides as many utes use the trailers. Plus discs because they work better. But we load trailers better than most caravans.
@@tweake7175 A high percentage of all larger vans sold these days, incluse Electronic Stability Control as standard. Jayco for example include it on all of their large vans. There are a number of manufacturers now.
@@tweake7175 Yeah overrides suck but they do the job, towing with electric brakes is much better but are you referring to override disc or the hydro electric disc? Or electric or override drums?
i wish i watched this video before towing a trailer full (!) of firewood on the german freeway this monday. whether it was the abs/esp/asr or that trailer stability thing they advertised, it did save my arse, overtaking a 40ton lorry when that silly tail waved my dog 0.o. out of ideas what to do i stepped on the breaks and after a second or two of rattling and blocking wheels the tail decided to follow the dog again. needless to say that i drove the rest of that journey behind the lorries. when i am done moving i'll give that borrowed 3 ton trailer back to my friend and use my little 2 ton without thinking i need a bigger one anymore.
finally someone speaks publicly about the airbag deployment and bull bar.
Thanks John, was very worthwhile viewing
This stuff is brilliant John! Thanks so much
Bringing facts and physics into the towing discussion will only serve to awaken all the internet experts that think physics doesn't matter.
The most important thing for stability in trailer stuff is speed. Second most important thing is where is mass in trailer. First if all you gotta have 5-10% load on towing vehicle otherwise when trailer start left right "dance".. you are screwed, because it never stops. Than we can talk about mass, overhang, power, 2x4, 4x4... Endless little things.
When you increase speed from 80 to 100 km/h all shit is double. All side forces in corners, stoping distance, collision force in accident... All shit is double in just a bit more speed. You can even overload trailer and to towing vehicle but you gotta drive slow and nothing bad is gonna happen (most of the time 🤣😂).
Totally agree on speed as I discovered myself around 1992 rashly volunteering to move a VERY heavy steam boiler for a museum, towing a rented trailer with my 110 Defender. The probably 5 ton and grossly overweight albeit neutrally positioned load soon had me starting to sway. Fortunately I eased off the power very gently and recovered, adopted a 25mph limit and had no more scary moments. Apart that is from return of the trailer, hoping they didn't see the repaired broken welds where we'd had to repair it as had sagged badly.
Click the card that is FINALLY up there now….dude
Planning
We are approaching retirement. Planning for local travel commenced several years ago with the following objectives and constraints:
• Decision: Select conservatively matched vehicle and trailer.
• Function:
o Flexibility to stay in parks or “off grid” for 7 to 14 days as confidence develops.
o Travel inland and coastal sealed and unsealed roads.
o No toy cartage. No rock climbing / mud / water crossings.
o Maintain and hold for ~15 years.
• Trailer storage at home height restricted to ~1.8m.
Research
Sources used are probably typical and included: manufacturer specifications; commercial media; independent/enthusiast publishers; privately sourced fleet operator reliability estimates for vehicles; caravan and camping shows; dealerships.
We don’t have engineering or trades backgrounds (my 20+ years experience in Vectra / Golf towing ~500kg ATM does not compare with this decision). Research efforts were made on:
• Vehicles (dimensions, masses, engine and transmission operating characteristics, maintenance requirements).
• Candidate vehicle frequent failure complaints, how they might be avoided or made less probable, how to minimise the cost and time to recover from them.
• Wheels (size) and tyre (type, construction, aspect, profile, weight) suited to intended applications.
• Components and machinery incorporated in trailer fit out (operating characteristics, maintenance requirements).
Excluded from consideration were:
• American style utes (cost, dimensions, flexibility, reliability).
• Small European or Japanese trucks (cost, dimensions, flexibility).
• Dual clutch or CVT transmissions (towing).
• Tent (comfort, effort cf health).
• Caravan (cost, risk v reward, reliability, storage).
The discovery of information sources that exposed principles and facts related to applications, technologies and products have been invaluable. Examples included:
www.autoexpert.com.au (generous in explaining technical subjects, humorous, and a little naughty)
www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au (tyres, stability “An experimental investigation of car-trailer high-speed stability” Department of Mechanical Engineering at Bath University in the UK)
www.4wdingaustralia.com
www.outbackjoe.com
ua-cam.com/users/DashCamOwnersAustralia (a regularly updated survey of mistakes made on our roads)
www.engineeringtoolbox.com
Our initial direction
Was the purchase of a medium sized utility, canopy and trailer. No concensus emerged there. Vehicle variations were discarded (cost, comfort, flexibility, dimensions). Accommodation ideas persisted (pod camper and camper trailer).
Our final direction
Has been a 4wd wagon and trailer. Preferred vehicles included the Mitsubishi Pajero Sport and the ISUZU MU-X.
Pod camper and camping trailer options were reduced to a single option each.
Decision
The MU-X LS-U was selected (mass, low rpm torque, load space, contemporary safety package).
The pod camper alternative was discarded after we had the opportunity to inspect one at a caravan show (size). We visited the camper trailer mfr at their Slacks Creek workshop and observed examples of the Trackabout Explora in stages of construction. Shortly afterward we had the opportunity to see a finished example at a caravan show in Melbourne. We were then comfortable enough to order a trailer.
The decision will deliver workload within the performance envelope of the combination with margins of safety:
Tyres Wheels Axles GVM/ATM GCM Towball/Hitch
Limit Vehicle F 1250 1250 1450 2800 5900 350
R 1250 1250 1650
Trailer 1250 1250 2000 2000 3500
Actual Vehicle F 587 587 1173 2493(1) 3822 82
R 660 660 1319
Trailer 585 585 1411 1411(2) 82
(1) Vehicle payload 338kg includes fitout, driver, passenger, vehicle and personal items, towball mass.
(2) Trailer payload 411kg includes 185L water.
Negotiation
Vehicle and trailer were ordered in 2022 (market conditions less than ideal).
Vehicle discussions focussed on price. “All in” pricing (including $4k of options/accessories) varied by ~10% from least to most expensive, delivery lead time was 13 months. Trailer delivery lead time was 8 months.
Adaptations
• Replaced OEM vehicle wheels (R18) and tyres with accessory wheels (R17) and AT tyres (D697 LT). The wheel and tyre size were chosen for comfort, puncture resistance, sidewall tolerance for inflation variation, alignment with OEM profile and aspect.
• Other vehicle adaptations included: brake controller; fused cable to Anderson plug; 12V compressor; load rated cargo net for wagon; wheel clamp; OBD II reader.
• Trailer adaptations included: wheels and tyres matched to vehicle; battery charging incorporating 12V / 240V / solar; diesel heater.
• Towing course for my wife and I.
Closing Remarks
John, AutoExpert has helped us consider many aspects of the research and decision making differently and more thoroughly than we might have done on our own. Our selection has been more systematic and exhaustive for your input. We are grateful for the time and effort you have put into explaining such a wide range of topics in a comprehensible manner in your reports.
Just a thought. You say that the load should be between the rear wheels. Would a goose neck fitting help?
I love the physics T shirt. Makes me think of Los Alamos and Eniwetok, where the worlds finest physicists were surprised to find that their exact calcs were out by a factor of 10. Still that is close enough for a physicist. Bloody fantastic explosions though.
Hiya John, I enjoy watching your videos on all vehicle related products, whether they be good or rubbish, but as I'm from the UK, we only have certain pickup trucks (UTES) here, but somehow, you talk a lot about the mid range UTE, for pulling upto 3.5 ton.
But what I would like to know is you never mention the FORD F150, or ASV RAM 1500, or 2500, and whether ASV will be having the ECO DIESEL in the RAM 1500, I have a KIA Sportive, and never had a problem since purchased in 2017, and we don't get certain KIA vehicles like you do in AUSTRALIA, so you keep up the good work, entertaining your public.
Karl Amos
Beating in the head of a zombie that gatecrashes dinner with "the flogger of truth". And you build it into Newton II seamlessly. Kudos
I find when im holding 8 inches of wood, I have full control of it, although when i use oil, I find it slipping in my hand. Thanks Physics.
I actually made it through this video 😲 Great job mate!