Artist FALSELY Accuses VGEN of FRAUD...
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- What are your thoughts about this scenario? Do you think Vgen is in the wrong? Or is the artist? :o
Again, please don't send hate to anyone!
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i also commissioned them and they NEVER told me anything about it I was just wondering why my comm still is on que and "payment pending" despite me paying lmao
I will never understand how people make these posts and then don't delete the misinformation afterwards. It's not even this instance, it's all over Twitter now.
It'll look worse if you delete it and someone has a screenshot, since it'll look like you're trying to cover it up, and had malicious intent. If you keep it up you can always blame it on a misunderstanding.
the least they could do is update everyone and let them know the outcome, if not community notes will clear this mess up at some point hopefully
I do think Vgen needs to stop using stripe if possible due to how unreliable it is
The blame of stripe issues will always lie partly on Vgen for using it in the first place. Their platform has an obligation to their users to provide reliable transaction methods.
I heard stripe is such a pain to use (especially since I think some countries don't use stripe). For unverified users they can use PayPal. Idk why this isn't a standard option compared to stripe (tho, Im not familiar with the pro and cons of working with both since I don't ever use stripe)
@@SmolBeanMyth I believe PayPal has higher fees
@@SmolBeanMyth PayPal isn't perfect either. As someone buying goods/services, it's great. But I've heard horror stories of being a seller of goods/services using PayPal, such as buyers just filing for a refund/chargeback after getting what they want, or PayPal just randomly closing an account and sealing off the money.
@@willbe3043it does unfortunately
I have been using VGen and invited as part of the beta 4. I hated the amount of misinformation that artist caused...thank you for making the video for larger audience to see ❤
Honestly the issue could’ve been a lot less messy if they didn’t keep taking commissions that they weren’t receiving payment for. It’s really risky and to take money without actually receiving it.
OMG!!@@CirsqnI love you art ❤️❤️❤️
@@moribat TYSM
support small artists
WHAT CIRS U HERE SOAHHH UR ART SO COOL I AANT TO SELL ART LIKE YOU SOME DAY
Even before the ending update, it sounded like she was passing blame lol
On VGen you can turn off Stripe payments and only accept paypal, so the fact that she didn't bother to do that and kept taking stripe payments is WILD to me. The whole thing sounded like, on top of the Stripe issue, she took on too many commissions and wanted to get ahead of it by blaming VGen and oh woe is me I'm working for free to get sympathy rather than criticism for not communicating with her clients and being so behind on work.
The artist is mostly at fault for not communicating, blocking and not figuring out things with Stripe. They should've stopped taking comms after the first week or so the problem came up and immediately refund whoever they needed to until the problem got sorted. They're like 19 or so, so perhaps they got confused on what VGEN was directing them towards, Stripe, and they felt like they were being passed around companies which got worse when VGEN then restricted the access on the artists account. Leading the artist to start going after VGEN even though they weren't the main problem.
yeah i still don't understand why she took on so many unpaid commissions. she could've updated her clients when this first went down and it was relatively minor, so much so that she's now having to go after so many people to sort this issue out. blocking somebody who asked for a refund is also a major red flag, as said in the video.
i do think she's inexperienced, which is not her fault, but taking on unpaid work (clarifying, work she knew would be unpaid! i don't blame her at all for the instances where she wasn't yet aware of the issues obviously) is something i think not even an unexperienced person would do. this situation's a big mess.
As an artist I get really concerned about cases like this, because our field is like a minefield. On one side there's AI, on other side there's art theft and on another side there's other artists ruining the job for everyone who's trying to do this seriously. Big F for artists who are doing everything right at this moment.
Maurei should have contacted the people who have paid for a commission and mentioned it would be delayed or give them the alternative to give them a refund.
You should always keep in touch with the people who has ordered something and communicate with them.
I came across this art drama thread in my for you tab on twitter and found out the artist is only 19.....😅 That explains their behavior quite a bit. Hope they learn some accountability from this situation.
This may be a bit harsh. But if you take commissions and have other people pay you money for a product, then you have to be able to take responsibility and deal with things professionally.
If you can't do that your clients will be affected, and that won't change based on the artist's age. The clients will be just as negatively impacted if you're 16 or 36. So if you can't handle the entire process of taking commissions, then you should either ask someone for help (perhaps have your parents take a look at it if you're a minor), or not do commissions until you can.
Eh 19 is a grown ass adult, when I was 19, I knew better.
The only way I could understand that, is if they happened to be extremely sheltered while they were growing up.
Even the whole "your not mature until 25" bs,is a pop culture fallacy.
This is starting points for research if anyone is interested 😅
I often see people quote the fact that we still have our frontal lobe developing until 25 years old, but it is much more complicated than that and we cannot use brain development as the sole marker of maturity.
What's actually happening between 18 and 25, is our brain is starting to prune neurons, and our brain is essentially getting rid of connections in favor of ones that we actually use, so that we can strengthen the ones we use. That's why for instance it's harder to learn certain skills like a language, or an instrument;later in life.
You can also look at the fact to, that by the time when we are toddlers (1,000 days old), 85% of the brain has been developed, and obviously a toddler is not 85% done with development.
As well as our brains developed for our entire life, as we are always going through neurogenesis. (It's actually part of the reason that they think that Alzheimer's starts now, I recently read an article that came up with this theory. That they think when neurogenesis stops happening, that that is what can cause Alzheimer's)
It's actually quite interesting, and if anybody happens to be interested in things these are some starting points like I said, or you could just Google "pop culture fallacy are we not mature until 25" and the articles and studies should pop up ☺️
@@HyattHyatt3179 I definitely agree with you, not to mention the whole fact that by the time we are 19, unless you have some sort of condition which can cause development delay.
(and even then it depends on the condition, since for example I have ADHD,which is a developmental condition, but I was a grown-ass adult by 19.)
It's not even just anecdotally speaking either, there is scientific evidence, which shows that are around 18-19 ,is when we should be considered adults.
Tbh part of me wonders, mybe this person was extremely sheltered? As that can impact somebody's development severely.
I'm 19 and work as an artist... If I ever have a problem with funds being held I'm gonna tell all my clients, especially those that are in my waitlist and haven't paid, to not send money until I get the issue solved or to go directly through my PayPal for exemple. I'm also not gonna call out the wrong company online.
Commissions are hard to manage ngl. It's not the easiest job because you're a one person company, VGen honestly makes it very much easier and I'm grateful the platform exists rn.
The artist said it's their first year opening commissions, so my guess is it's also their first time working with payment methods, banking issues and so on. Which explains them not knowing who's holding the money and where the issue is- I'm also guessing not getting the money stressed the artist out and made them act without thinking as in blocking clients just to lessen the pressure on themselves. I just hope this will be a learning experience for them so they'll react better and study the logistics of commissions and payments more.
this whole event can be summarized as: Vgen needs a better pr team and artist need to do better when working as business
The artist in question is 19 so she still has room to grow and mature hopefully the money can get sorted out but if not it'll be a learning moment and to other artist
Srs!! Vgen is still a middleman. They signed up to help facilitate comms and are responsible for protecting both buyers and artists. The number of customers that got screwed over in this somehow being.. just the artists fault?
The artist is a person - having them be good businessmen or act like a company isn't a guarantee, and the point of vgen was to make it less of a gamble if you lose your money when an artist acts like this
Vgen exists because of bad artists, they should know how to handle this better
I originally found your videos exposing AI and art scams on my feed. Wanted to say I’m a fan of your content. ❤
I used to work for a big company that often acted as a mediator when it came to money and dear GOD the whole mindset of "I can't sort this out with company X, so now it's company Y's issue, even though they have nothing to do with it" is suuuuuuuuch a pain in the butt. Especially since 99% of the time the issue was not with us, nor were we even authorized to talk to those people.
I get the feeling that they were passed around from one company to the next quite a bit, but latching on to the one you can slander more easily and hoping that they pay out is a really dick move, especially with all the info that came in the update....
Honestly my take is that if you had an issue getting the payment from the first few clients I wouldn’t take anymore commission until the issue is resolved. Taking a huge amount of commissions without receiving payment is already risky and kinda digging your own grave if that makes sense.
I do think it may have mostly been a lack of knowledge on where the money is held. But as soon as there was an issue shown with stripe, it should have been pursued more initially first. If there's ever anything wrong with thing connected to bank accounts, follow through with those first.
I was literally waiting for you to cover this. 😂 I followed the thread since the beginning and it was frustrating because a lot of people only saw the first 1-2 post and started blaming Vgen. It was a mess. OP even went from 300ish followers to around 500 now? She gained exposure from it and didn’t even put the final clarification under the original thread. 🤦🏻
I suspect she kept up work because work = practice and training. Whenever I finish a comm I have often learned something: new lighting techniques, a streamline for my process, a simple hack, a new way to do something, some organization skills, anatomy skills, clothing experience, etc.
Commissions are experience and I would want to continue to work to keep up my process. I also find if I take a hiatus from drawing and return my skills are significantly diminished and return after plenty of practice, meaning there is a buffer between returning and doing fanart/practice raffle art and being able to accept commissions at my usual skill level again.
Legally, Vgen does NOT have your bank information. They have 0 tos that says they withhold your information. Which means they only have said data in a specific database which for legal reasons, should not be accessed by vgen staff, only by proxy to Stripe.
It sounds like they (Marurei) really take Stripe's word at face value (if Stripe is the one blaming VGen and throwing grease on their own brand of dumpster fire). If anyone is being fradulent here, it's probably Stripe by making it so hard to just put main accounts on it. I feel like Stripe is lying when they ask for a different account.
I take the payment platform's word with the whole shaker of salt when they start asking for more than the basic amount of banking and personal info (main bank account you want to have the money go into and the basic methods of personal ID) and claiming something went wrong with linking the primary account so they need another account and more ID. (I mean demanding a different account against anyone using the platform's wishes when they originally signed up claiming that the original account connected to it has something wrong)
yeah artist totally in the wrong, my wife did business with them almost 6 months ago with nothing to show for it.
Oh gods. I am so sorry. Has your wife still not received a refund?
12:23 In Australia our banking network is set up so anyone can put money into your account
The same thing fucking happened to me but PayPal stole all $200+
Yeah I've heard more stories of it happening to paypal then with stripe
09:30 I think it ain't fully her fault but she also ain't a victim. she should at least have told the pending clients that? that's her only fault I sew for noa
seems like a weird idea to take on free commissions for 6 months
After the whole video, the artist is 100% at fault for me
Thank you for making the video!
Honestly for vgen to said not to post anything about active support ticket just right, look at how everything now end up after the post. Vgen only have 11 staff member and they're countless artist on the platform it took so much time to process everything also misunderstanding and passing the blame, it's stripe fault indeed it's suck I know but vgen doesn't have access to your artist wallet and even after everyone explaining to them the artist refuse to acknowledge it, it's so frustating!!
I'm from beta invited and I'm so grateful for vgen it gave me protection as artist also for client too.
Nahh blocking someone who commissions u and wants a refund?? Thats just straight up trying to run away from the situation. Like yeah she understood stuff wrong and I lowkey feel bad for the artist still but shes still in the wrong and shouldn’t act like this ://
Oh my goodness Kat, I hope you got proper rest last night.
As far as Ushie's block goes, the reason they were blocked was because they made a vent/callout thread on Maru for not getting them the refund. In that thread Ushie used some inflammatory language that while I don't agree with I find somewhat understandable because of the frustrations. Ushie filed for a refund but it was cancelled by Paypal I'm guessing because Maru's accounts were either flagged or they were already so in debt from processing refunds that Paypal couldn't take anymore. I understand Maru blocking Ushie, but I felt that doing so before the refund could be approved and transferred only ads fuel to the already burning blaze.
After Maru's fix update I let Ushie know that Maru had access to funds again so that they could again attempt for a refund, and lately I haven't heard back on if Ushie got their money back. It looks like it may be the case though because on Maru's latest refund screenshot there is an amount that is very close to what Ushie paid. I could still be wrong though and I'll comment here if there is an update to that situation.
people keep forgetting vgen isn't a corpo. they're like 11 people...
We love you kat, we all say in unison
Its sad to see more and more artists with horrible business practices. You'd think not taking on way more commissions than you can handle in a reasonable amount of time, keeping clients in the loop when you have their money, staying open while this issue was already happening, or going beyond your deadline dates period- would be common sense. In a world of AI and fake artists. We REALLY dont need other artists letting us down even further. PLEASE, be better.
I can't stop watching your video 😭😭 it's literally 2:30 am right now and the entertainment is just addictive
awesome artist lady that even helps with art during artist drama???
WHILE STILL BEING AWESOME REGARDLESS
i might be glazing but I'm pretty happy to have found this channel
i need simple help with my art💀
heavily
this is why i would never accept more than one payment/commission at a time... especially if you already have multiple people already waiting for a response from you.
this is such a stupid situation that could've been dealt with completely in private, instead she disses the middle man when she's the one at fault.
This is a really great channel when I scour for art, especially with your very insightful commentary!
Ok so here I commed this artist before and they ghosted me and promised a february delivery and after missing it I waited until the end of April and they still didnt deliver. I asked for a refund and with no sketch whatsoever I was partially refunded. Worst experience I ever had with an artist. Never again.
I am so sorry Momo. Like I said with Ushie, you all should not have been treated in this manner. Artists should always make sure that their clients feel some sort of safety and security when commissioning and make sure that the trust is well kept. I hope that if you do commission again, that your next experience will be significantly more positive.
@@pepperfyves I love commissioning artists but that was truly the worst experience I ever had. I am making sure I know who I work with from now on and that will not stop me from working with more artists and show their amazing art.
omg im so sorry momo that htis happened to u ;-;
I've only bought one comm on vgen and I'm glad it was fine cause if I'd seen this first I would have been STRESSED even though it's another artist lol 😂
Tho I'm not surprised so many people have been scammed, art comm scams/ghosting feels like it's on the rise. In the past year I've been ghosted/scammed by four different artists on different platforms so we all just suffering 😂😂
Tbh interesting how theyre blaming this all on the stripe/vgen stuff but also dropped and neglected their paypal stuff despite having those payments lol
i think vgen holds some responsibility if they're choosing to use stripe with it's reputation. is there really no alternative to use? I understand companies work really hard to make that the reality but damn, vgen should be siding with their users and pushing stripe to do the right thing and helping her however they can. it always sucks when companies give you the run around. you talk to one company, they tell you to talk to another, then that company tells you is the other companie's fault and to talk to them. either way, it should not be taking weeks or months to sort this shit out.
Thank you for doing a video about it, I saw the thread in my TL and was like "there's no way I'm reading all this"
8 minutes ago wooo!! I love your commentary:3
So why was it necessary for the artist to refund the money instead of the getting a chargeback to their cards?
Hall Timothy Jackson Paul Lee Timothy
50 seconds ago is crazy! :D Love your videos!!
But didnt vGen itself said that there were gonna hold payments. and slowly release by milestones within the commission itself, like the sketch is done a bit of money is released, etc.
I use VGen and what happens is that when someone pays me, I receive the payments in full up front. You can set it up to where you are paid in partial payments at milestones, but VGen doesn't place any holds on money. Instead what they do is they prevent anyone from being able to commission you if they detect fraud or if fraud is reported.
Really loving these vids~
Unfortunately the reason why Shu rose was ghosted to be speculated, was because they went by a different name "Riedal". theres a huge thread about them on vtuber blacklist. And Marurei probably saw that and didn't want to interact with them due their past. I hope they got their money back either way.
It was a red flag for me for the artist when they kept taking commission knowing that after about 5 times they were getting any type of money. They did say they did it 50 times. For me after 3 to 5 times im making a statement that im either pausing commissions or moving commissions to an entirely different platform so i can still pay bills. Very weird
Heey, love your videos, im hollow_mimikyu! The comment wasnt towards ushi. It was to them specifically because there was an issue with them ghosting clients from the start! I think maybe like you said, towward the end, they didn't understand they had to verify things, but regardless, as artists its always important to let your clients know whats going on. Stop taking coms when you are overwhelmed or stuff is going wrong. ALWAYS HAVE GOOD COMMUNICATION WITH CLIENTS! Very important lol
As an artist myself i take pride in my good communication so anyone who just ghosts or ignores people need to learn some good work ethics in this area for sure. 😅
Honestly I’ve been feeling very disconnected from art. With art theft, the sheer amount of AI art gaining popularity, and the downfall of every social media, I’m just so discouraged by everything. I haven’t been feeling joy when drawing and sometimes I can’t even draw. I can’t tell if it’s making me depressed or if me being depressed affected my ability to draw🥲
Well I don’t know what the future will hold her me and I don’t know if I’ll be able to reignite my passion for art.
I see way more behind this. Why can’t Vgen not just provide her with the information of payout. They have proof that they paid out. If they paid out she could confront stripe. In my Restaurant I used Stripe for card payments and luckily had never a problem
She provided also proof. Only because of 2 people it is all wrong what she did?
To the uploader: there are many people in the world that only see the good in the people and then get fricked xD
Alright lets go through my issue with the people complaining the 1st by the date was june 12th meaning it was in the middle of all the stripe drama and honestly could have been cancelled by stripe if thats where all her money is supposed to be going through as somepeople prefer not to have money floating in several places so the first might be a victim of the whole stripe/vgen stuff and we also dont see any pictures of conversation which could have been why they were blocked instead of the refund issue, the second also falls within the timeframe of it though moreso on the earlier end in may if she was as swamped as she was people can miss a dm or whatever then the 2nd time they ask for a refund is also in the middle of maruei's trying to fix stuff with stripe and vgen so again could be another victim of it, and tge fact vgen could have a wallet, similar to patreon or most kindof subscriber based things or even twitch, if they take bank/card info they kinda have to especially if they can withhold or restrict payouts, usually its either their company or a contracted company that holds it and they give the switch to let it free Essentially so honestly without much more info id still sayits a vgen / stripe issue just because of the timeline and everything
I dont think this person knows that vgen literally can't move their money on another platofrm
If Vgen offered Stripe payments and Stripe starts acting up, then Vgen deserves some of the blame.
That's not how stuff works lol
@@mywingsareyours They acted as a middleman, people wouldn't have used Stripe if Vgen didn't vouch for them. They don't deserve the bulk of the blame, but their hands aren't clean in this.
This drama is a learning experience for me even though commissions sound to scary to try
i really love the neutral and constructive way you approach the drama in the art community
50 commissions is where i start calling bullshit
9:29
Girllll your channel is popping OFF let’s gooooo 🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
late night editing Kat is surprising to see
Another day of drama
14:00 MAOOOO
how long does it have to be so that we can call it ghosted?
it genuinely depends on the situation honestly
but my usual stance is like this: if there's been no updates for a month, or the deadline for my comm has passed, they get 2 weeks max to reply to my update inquiry before getting a refund request/chargeback
Messy messy
13:07 escrow
Who employs Stripe? Vgen! Vgen can’t just blame Stripe when they are the company who said “hey stripe! We think you’re great and would love to manage our artists funds!” Still your fault Vgen. Most businessman/woman would agree
Spider-Man point the finger meme x100
Crazy to think a 19 yr old budding artists needs to also be fully educated on business tactics. Maybe just have a business clear enough that it’s easy for young artists to follow? Or not allow 19 year olds then?
19 should be old enough to understand, or at least be able to learn how it works. If you're legally an adult at 18, then you should be able to take commissions. Or at the very least know your limits enough to step away from commissions if you don't understand the process.
19 is an adult. 🤦🏻♀️
@@xdani_thethinkingnekolegally. 19 yr olds r still kids lol
Ok now both of you think back to all the dumb mistakes you made at 18, 19, 20 etc. it shouldn’t be an entire gymnastics routine to sell a few self made goods
@@AliMeetsWorld Yeah, I did. I wouldn't have had an issue closing my commissions if I couldn't do more. Honestly I'd probably underestimate myself and only have very few commissions a month to make sure that I could really do all of them.
It's really not that difficult to understand that you shouldn't take on more work than you can do.
It'd be one thing if she was pressured into taking them, but she wasn't.
Sure 18-19 yo aren't the smartest people on the planet, but at 20 you should be able to function like an adult. Sure making mistakes is one thing, but people are going to do that no matter how old they are.
ltrly been binge watching ur yt chnl lmao
Really had good experiences on Vgen!
yooo