The Waco Massacre - Forgotten History
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Most people around the world had never heard of the “Branch Davidians” led by the controversial self-proclaimed prophet David Koresh until the beginning of a 51 day siege at their 77-acre Mount Carmel compound where 130 members had resided. Hosted by Colin D. Heaton. Forgotten History is a 10th Legion Pictures Production.
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SOURCES
www.history.com
People Magazine
Spin Magazine
The Los Angeles Times
The New York Times
The Washington Times
The New York Post
Time Magazine
Waco Tribune-Herald
Documentary “Inside Waco”
Documentary Waco: The Rules of Engagement
Anthony, D. and T. Robbins. "Religious totalism, exemplary dualism and the Waco tragedy." In Robbins and Palmer 1997.
Thibodeau, David and Leon Whiteson. A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story (New York: PublicAffairs, 1999).
Kopel, David B. and Paul H. Blackman. No More Wacos: What's Wrong With Federal Law Enforcement and How to Fix It (Amherst, New York: Prometheus Books, 1997).
Wright, Stuart A. (ed.). Armageddon in Waco: Critical Perspectives on the Branch Davidian Conflict (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1995).
Moore, Carol. The Davidian Massacre: Disturbing Questions About Waco That Must Be Answered (Virginia: Gun Owners Foundation, 1995).
Watching a documentary one of the federal agents interviewed was very eager for a fight. He didn't seem to know he was supposed to be a cop and not a soldier in a declared war. Disturbing.
Honed to kill😔
This is what they are doing to the IRS. Get ready buddy! Government dogs are gonna get lose.
Thanks for watching
Hi speed, low drag ATF operator.
He's well learnt now.
I remember CNN and other media outlets comparing Koresh to all manner of historical villains. The event was heavily laden by government PR. Many accusations proved false. This was ultimately a tragedy of human and civil rights.
Another Reno/Clinton fuck up.
This event was the moment I lost all trust and respect for the US Government. The realization that our government was not benevolent masters I had been taught they where was a harsh one.
They could have picked up Koresh during the months of surveillance they conducted. He did visit Waco a number of times before word of the raid got to him. Without their leader, there was a very good chance that the remaining members would be ruderless and would have surrendered. I remember watching this as it unfolded. The government was recording it. I just think some have this romantic penchant for a "guns blazing" takeover and cooler heads do not prevail. Once the government felt that it was under attack, it unleashed its machine.
"benevolent masters" never even enters the same state of thought when it comes to government lol. Glad you came around
Yes that was not the good ole days as some might think.
Katrina response who are those who wanted to keep firearms to stay in their homes had them confiscated by the National Guard and the New Orleans PD. also the January 6th situation which is so convoluted and could have been prevented if they just listen to what President Trump pass for the day before by asking for National Guard protection which was refused which makes me believe was a setup.
Haven't seen the whole video yet. Will comment again when I do.
What SHOOK ME TO THE CORE, was when I started "connecting dots", and the picture started to become clear; and frankly, horrifying.
"Back in the day", CBS' '60mins' did a story about what was referred to as the "Good-Ole-Boy Roundup", which was a white-only event, held on private property, with a DISTINCTIVELY KKK/Aryan flavor; x,x,x,&x were NOT allowed [fill-in the x's]. The unmentioned, and ugliest truth, were that the attendees were all FEDERAL LEOs [+ families]. Everything one might expect to see at a Klan Rally; "effigy-hangings", cross-burnings, racist Wallace-esque speeches; you get it. Most, if not ALL the alphabet agencies were "repped", some more, some less, but ALL "Fed". This was a 'yearly' event, held in the backwoods of AR/TN/MO somewhere; Ozarks area. I give these details in case anyone doubts me, and wants to verify it, they can. I couldn't MAKE this up; not in my most TWISTED nightmare; not if my LIFE depended on it....
When the Waco raid happened, ATF Director Stephen Higgins was being hauled before Congress to give an account of his agency. This was due to a JOINT lawsuit AGAINST the ATF listing 10 of the most EGGREGIOUS INSTANCES of BLATANT VIOLATIONS of people's Constitutional Rights; one of whom I knew PERSONALLY, and another involving an Ohio Policeman as the VICTIM. The two joint-parties were the NRA, and of ALL GROUPS, the ACLU!!
The initial raid of 28Feb93 was code-named "Operation SHOWTIME", and was orchestrated to coincide with Higgins' "appearance", so as to give Dir Higgins a "bone" to demonstrate his "leadership acumen" of the ATF.
Unfortunately, it DIDN'T work out to their liking, and turned into a REAL GOATSCREW, that was on "TV" every night, for 51 DAYS, at $1M/DAY!!!
If those people had been allowed to come out, and the physical evidence was documented [numerous bullet-holes in the gym-roof; the main doors, etc], with the COMPLETE video showing the first 20-30 seconds of the ATF SHOOTING the dogs, and into the structure FIRST...ATF, as a Federal Agency...was DONE; OVER; DISSOLVED! And NOBODY in any OTHER agency wanted them, as they were COWBOYS, and would get the OTHER agencies HORRIBLY sued, down to their skivvies and T-shirts! Uh-UH! There were NO TAKERS for that; NONE! ESPECIALLY after 4 officers were KILLED on the day of the initial raid, and 3-4 Branch Davidians died [a guess from memory...]. So SOMEBODY, at the HIGHEST LEVEL OF GOV'T [to quote Oliver North re: the Iran-Contra mess], made a DECISION to SAVE a rogue, out of control agency; even if it meant killing Americans WITHOUT any 'due-process' WHATSOEVER!!
Anybody remember being taught about what happened at My-Lai? This wasn't "them", or "those people", or on the other side of the world in a war-zone. This was HERE; in the CONUS [Continental US]! With OUR OWN LE Personnel, used against AMERICAN CITIZENS; many of whom...were CHILDREN!!!
My God in Heaven...!
Then 2-years later, EXACTLY TO THE DAY OF THE Waco Fire [19Apr93], OKC happens; at a time when domestic "anti-terrorism legislation stalled in Congress; and it was immediately RE-INTRODUCED post OKC, and "sailed through" Congress; why...imagine THAT! FASCINATING how that happens, huh?
And then, 8 years later when there was something called the PNAC [Plan for a New American Century] that was a collection of "position-papers" charting "America's Future"...9/11 happens, and we get the Patriot/Homeland Security Act, TSA, DHS, and America becomes a blatant "National Security" state, justifying a "never-ending "War on Terror"; as we're being constantly reminded about DOMESTIC terrorism, as this gov't leaves our borders WIDE-OPEN, and INVITING unvetted MASSES of UNCOUNTABLE #s, as this Admin LIES TO OUR FACE, about how our borders are "secure"!!!
What ABJECT BS!!!
Is there REALLY a WoT, or NOT? If so, WHY doesn't our DOMESTIC policy, match our FOREIGN policy? It's called "consistency"; and clearly, this gov't IS NOT, nor HAS it been; EXCEPT during Trump's time in office.
NOW do you see WHY the Deep State [Ds &Rs] are SO terrified of 45 returning to the WH?
NOW do you see WHY this gov't is so HELL-BENT on disarming Americans, when it left our enemies $Bs in LETHAL HARDWARE???!!!
Folks...are you finally SEEING/SMELLING the BS??? It should be OBVIOUS by now...
I’ve read multiple accounts on the Waco siege and most accounts claim that the ATF had multiple chances to grab Karesh prior to any of the events of the siege happened. That in mind, the ATF could’ve have prevented such events and saved the lives of dozens of people. The fact the ATF held off only proves to me that they wanted blood and wanted to make a show of things to help set an example for anyone else who’d dare to oppose them.
All the people who escaped the fire where in the front of the building where the cameras 2 miles away could see. Everyone fleeing the back of the building was shot, my military personal from special forces, on "special" assignment...
Koresh went jogging, alone, every morning.. if the feds had consulted the local sheriff, he could have been arrested at any time without incident.. but they're feds...
Edit, I'm glad this was addressed in the video.
The sheriff had told the feds,that koresh was always in town,on a certain day. What happened could have been avoided. Today we see how weaponized federal agencies are,towards our republic.
You are correct, but it's worse than that. The ATF had the compound under 24/7 surveillance from the rented singlge family home almost directly across the street from the compounds entrance. It was reported that Koresh knew the ATF was there yet continued to jog past it every morning. Almost like he wanted them to arrest him away from the compound.
Question: Did the government overreact? Given the jogging information then yes, they could have arrested Koresh without incident
As a former civilian and military LEO, "de-escalation" is primary and key to police work. Koresh was guilty of many crimes it seems, but the federal government is very obviously guilty of murdering the children and all non belligerents inside the compound. The massacre never had to happen.
When tyranny comes knocking, it comes in a uniform.
Yup and those dudes in uniform’s think they are the good guys
@@tomyoung8563 that's the worst part of all,.... they actually believe they are the good guys
@@ShannonDove-sy7ye they ain’t no hero’s they are existing modern day red coat who job is it to infringe on our rights. Their motto is guns for me not for thee
You mean a cult leader’s uniform? Also, if you’re referring to the American government why don’t you take a look at the state of Russia and China? How about North Korea? The corruption of the US government pales in comparison. It’s not even close. It’s disgusting how many people like you take what you have for granted. You would be begging to be governed by the United States if you lived in one of the countries I mentioned. Leave our country if you hate it so much 🤡
@@ShannonDove-sy7yeand even worse than that- people like you believe they are the bad guys. When they literally protect and save your life every single day without you knowing it. If you truly believed what you’re spewing out of your mouth, you wouldn’t ever call 911 for any situation. Oh your mother is having a heart attack? You wouldn’t call the bad guys would you? Of course you would. Because you’re a hypocrite. You cry and scream that our government oppresses you, yet you rely on them in every aspect of your life. Extremely Pathetic 🤡
Colin, i love your videos. Your research and fair presentation of the facts is refreshing. Im always better educated and entertained. Keep up the great work!
“Koresh asked to speak to ATF Agent Gutierrez. Gutierrez refused to speak to him.” That says it all.
I was in my late twenties when this happened. The Branch Davidians did not have .50 caliber machine guns, but had Barrett semi-automatic rifles chambered for the .50 caliber Browning Machine gun round, as shown in the pictures in your video. There is some confusion on this, likely spread by the ATF to help justify their actions
Possibly. No M2 types were ever reported as being recovered
Please do one about the Oklahoma City Bombing,and the CIA's connection to it !@@FORGOTTENHISTORYCHANNEL
If they knew his routine for jogging they should have grabbed him
Exactly,
but that is not how tyrannical governments show the world their power. They do it by killing women and children. Kinda like Hamas.
Thank you for presenting The Waco tragedy in a light that is not seen in other videos. Well done in a different perspective as you did with Ruby Ridge.❤
Wacco like the Civil War should always be remembered
Every time I heard the phrase, "The government said", I was doubtful of what followed.
I had two friends at Waco from different agencies. After things started escalating, one of them informed her supervisor that she either gets resigned out of there or accepted her resignation, retroactively.
Our constitution says to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government.
"...vs enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC."
I 100% blame the government for this entire debacle. The agents have the nerve to feel bad that some of their own guys were killed/wounded when none of this should have happened. The government was thoughtless and reckless. They could have had Koresh arrested with not one casualty.
How tragic this whole episode is. The Government were very heavy handed and could have dealt with David on his own. Well put together as always Colin. Very interesting but incredibly sad.
I believe NOTHING the US government says....ask Randy Weaver.
This one of very few channels that I immediately hit like.
I was hoping you would follow up Ruby Ridge with the Waco massacre... Great video Colin. thanks...
As always, thanks for keeping these kinds of stories alive
Such a terrible tragedy. The ATF should be abolished and replaced with nothing. Government failing once again
In the end, it was a fatal confrontation between "a man who believed that he was the son of God, and a government that believed that it was [is] God."
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."
~Tacitus
As far as who shot first is clear. The ATF lost all their footage with the video cameras they used that day. Also lost the front door showing all the bullet holes going in instead of out. They called it a compound instead of a church. To sway public opinion. All they had to do was wait them out. Instead on the windiest day. Started punching holes all threw the church with a tank. Filling the place with CS gas. Knowing children are inside. Do you know CS gas turns to cyanide when burned? Do you why they strap down and bagthe prisoner head in the death chamber? It's not to keep from escaping. Cyanide will cause muscles to contract to the point of breaking bones. The head can actually twist around backwards. The children in the bunker of the church bodies were contorted and some of their were backwards...
They also shot people who tried to escape the fire, the few survivors there was only lived because they came out in the side the long range news cameras could see, all the others were shot down, there is thermal footage from a plane overhead that shows the atf murdering anyone who got outside of the fire.
"Shall Not Be Infringed"
I heard a story. That the sheriff of the county had said if they wanted cares all he had to do was call him and he would come in to his office.
I remember that. He said that at the time all this was going on.
Visited the compound site and it is heavy with sadness
Great content Colin! And great fly collars! (Still wanna buy one from ya).
I'm commenting a bunch to juice the algorithm.
My very close family member was on site when Levoy Finnicum was killed (ambushed). I think that event would make for a good episode.
The Govt. is guilty but they'll never find themselves responsible for any wrong doing...as usual
We have been disposable for many years but either closed our eyes or unaware........Now we know for sure!!!
I believe that the Feds had already determined that they were going to make an example of the BD sect from the very beginning. One could argue that the eight to ten people that did get out during the lengthy siege may indicate otherwise but the fact that the feds did not even try to pick up Koresh when he went jogging outside the compound just seems fishy to me. Also, when DK spoke to them on the phone and asked to have the chief agent call him and said agent refused to do so makes me highly suspicious. David Koresh was definitely an emotionally/mentally disturbed man but he and his followers seem to have not caused trouble for the locals. There were sure a lot of locals leaving flowers at the site following this tragic event. When one looks at the leadership of our country both then and now, it is difficult to know which is the more disturbed. The cultists or the Feds.
With all due respect greetings and a millon thanks for your great work SIR sincerely José Silva from San Diego CA.
While I’ve the deepest sympathies for the children lost, I’ve absolutely none for Koresh. He was a manipulator, an abuser, a con man, a pedophile and child rapist. The government agreed to play his delusions, and it was DAVID who walked back on his word because “God” spoke to him. What a crock.
I struggle to have much sympathy for the adults, either…..who were very much adults, but so extremely gullible that they actually believed this scumbag was holy. Some even allowing their own children to be violated by this vermin Koresh. When you end up dying from sheer stupidity and allow your children to be harmed and killed, my sympathies are hard pressed.
RIP to the innocents lost, but good riddance to Koresh. The world is a better place without him.
On a lighter note, I hear Janet Reno now "identfies" as Jason Reno🤣🤣🤣
I thought that she identifies as "Dead"....
Remember this, Timothy McVeigh was there when the siege happened.
This is a great example of why government (violent authoritarianism) is never the right answer. Yes, Koresh was nuts... and so were most of his followers, but even though Koresh deserved what came to him, most of the people who died in the siege were innocent... especially the children. As the reporter said, they could have simply arrested Koresh while he was jogging, there was no need to raid the compound like they did. Killing innocent children doesn't help those children.
My new caveat to almost all statements: “according to the FBI”
Whether you believe them or not, must cite the reports.
Yeah, I remember Waco-- where people died because an arrogant Bill Clinton told an arrogant Janet Reno to finish it no matter what.
There is no such thing as an illegal gun. All gun laws are repugnant and unconstitutional and operate under the color of law.
You can disagree with their beliefs and lifestyle but the quantity of weapons or their manner of fire are not illegal as per the second amendment.
Once upon a time, private citizens used to rent out their warships to the US government.
Excellent, as usual! One thing, early in this episode, you used the term "assault weapon." Please don't use that term, as it's meaningless and used by anti-2A people to try to scare people. All weapons used against a person could technically be considered to be an "assault weapon." As for the tragic events at the compound, I don't think a gunfight would have been avoided if David had been arrested outside of the compound. Their mindset was not to give in to the government. It would have been easy to apprehend David, as he was in town often, ran daily on the same route. My friend lived in the area at the time and saw him in town often.
We used the term used by the government, but I agree
I can count on no hands how many people have forgotten Waco. The feds love the smell of fresh roasted citizens in the mornings.
Hey @FORGOTTEN HISTORY. You should do a video on the Battle of Athens, TN (1946). It’s the only successful armed rebellion since the Revolution. 😊
Possibly, there is a movie about that.
Janet reno should have stood trial for this...
THE HEART NEVER FORGETS REMEMBER THAT FACT !...
They murdered those people and called it a success
I lost it when I heard “mr retardo” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
did you ever notice that stuff is Always highly suspicious when any of alphabet agencies are involved. Every time I read about something and it mentions one of them, I automatically think they're lying. Their track records definitely don't help them...
If we could believe the ATF and FBI about the modified guns? FFL LICENSE, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN LEGAL!
I agree with the reporter. He could have been arrested on his morning jog peacefully
"When you bloody the bullies' nose, he won't come back for more."
Extreme? Who’s deciding what/who is extreme? You, fbi, atf, IRS…???
All gun/firearm laws are unconstitutional. We ALL have the right to bear arms. That being said, both sides were looking for a fight and there are very few innocent people in that fight.
The Federal law enforcement have always maintained tha the Branch Davidians had fully automatic machine guns. Whenever I listened to the tapes of the siege on the compound I never hear any automatic fire coming from the branch Davidians. The gunfire sounds like pop corn popping, suggesting it was semi-automatic fire only. The NRA ask to see the machine guns that were seized after the raid. The FBI brought out several AR -15 rifles which they said were altered to fire fully automatic. When the NRA representatives asked if they could x-ray the guns with their portable x-ray equioment they had brought with them to verify how the guns were altered, the FBI said no and promptly packed the guns back up and put them away and never let a third party examine them. If the Branch Davidians had full automatics, why didn't they use them? Anyone with any experience knows the difference between the regular cadence of full auto fire and the random cadence of multiple people firing semi-automatic fire. Even against the backdrop of multiple people firing, the regular cadence of full auto fire is unmistakable.
This was an abysmal tragedy. I was 8 years old when I witnessed the horrific conclusion of this event on cable news and I'll never forget how much it scared me. The sight of armored vehicles driving into a structure with children inside it is sickening.
I was ten, watched it live and I have not trusted the government since then.
I was 20 and fully trusted the government. They had every right to try and arrest anyone involved in the crimes. That said it was a major failure. The beginning was a mess, the ending was 100x worse. The government was looking bad and they got aggressive at the end. It's most likely the davidians set the house on fire, but they likely did so assuming the end was coming.
All that said and seeing the actions of the FBI recently, I don't trust the government, while also believing in law enforcement at the lower levels. I feel like if things don't change and quick, they will be coming for all of us that simply don't want to comply.
Again I believe this place was filled with criminals, I don't believe the response was good in any way. I think I'm many ways Ruby ridge was worse. I don't think weaver was trying to build some larger community to thwart the law. He just wanted to be left alone and posed no real threat to greater society. If we can't have that as an option for our lives then America is not free.
They went there with the best of intentions of saving children. Then saved them by setting them on fire
The worst pic is the one where they’re posing next to the charred bodies of women and children
THERE WAS A VIDEO MANY YEARS AGO BY A CIA INVESTIGATOR AND IT WAS CALLED HILLIARY CLINTON IS 100 PERCENT INVOLVED IN THIS AND IT SHOWED SO MUCH FOOTAGE AND THEIR LIES AND EVEN CHUCK SCHUMER WHO HAS BEEN CONGRESS FOREVER COVERING FOR THE CLINTONS NOW AND EVEN WAY BACK THEN THEIR LAP DOG. THE COURT CLERK THAT HAS BEEN CONSTANTLY PASSING NOTESBACK AND FORTH WITH THE JUDGE THAT IS VIOLATING HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND ACTING VERY BIZARRELY ABOUT THIS COURT REPORTER ALSO. THAT COURT REPORTER IS CHUCK SCHUMERS GIRLFRIEND WHO HATES TRUMP. WELL THIS VIDEO I TELL YOU ABOUT WACO ANYWAY SHOWED HOW THEY BLOCKED THE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE ALL EXITS WITH TANKS AND SHOT TEAR GAS INTO THE HOUSE AND SHEN SHOT BULLETS FROM REAL ASSAULT RIFLES RIGHT AFTER AND MILITARY GRADE TEAR GAS IN FLAMIBLE THEY SET THE HOUSE A BLAZE AND KILLED 57 ADULTS AND 16 OR 17 CHILDREN AND INFANTS IN A 3000 DEGREE FIRE BUT THEY DONT TELL ANYONE THIS IN THESE VIDCEOS. IN THAT DOCUMENTARY YOU CAN SEE THE ARIEL MILITARY INFRARED FOOTAGE SHOWING HOW THEY TRAPPED THE DIVIDIANS INSIDE ALL EXITS WITH TANKS THEY THEN SHOT FLAMABLE TEAR GAS INTO THE HOUSE FROM ALL DIRECTIONS AND SHOT BULLETS IN AFTER WHICH SET THE HOUSE A BLAZE.. AND THE PHOTOS WERE ON THEIR SHOWING THE INCINDIARIES THEY DENIED USING. THESE WERE PRESIDENT BILL CLINTONS SPECIAL FORCES THAT ONLY HE COULD DIRECT. THE DAY AFTER VINCE FOSTER SUPPOEDLY COMMITTED SUICIDE ANOTHER CLINTON BODY COUNT DEAD. HILLIARY CLINTON DEMANDED THAT THEY GET THE EVIDENCE BOXES OUT OF HIS OFFICE ABOUT WACO TEXAS. THIS VIDEO HAS BEEN TAKEN DOWN I AM NOW HAVING TROUBLE FINDING IT. EVEN ON THE SECRET SITE I USE TO BE ABLE TO WATCH IT. THEY ARE COVERING THINGS UP AGAIN AS SHE IS OUT THERE SPEAKING AGAIN. MAYBE SHE THINKS SHE HAS A CHANCE IN HELL AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP BUT SOMEONE HAS BEEN BUSY HIDING THIS FILM. BUT I WILL KEEP LOOKING. I SHOULD HAVE FILMED IT WITH MY CAMERA. FROM NOW ON I AM GOING TO BECAUSE THIS CRAP IS HAPPENING WAY TOO MUCH. THERES ANOTHER YOU SHOULD WATCH CALLED BILL AND HILLIARY CLINTON AS DIXIE MAFIA. THERE ARE OTHERS TOO. WATCH HILLIARYS AMERICA. THAT ONE WAS IN THEATERS BRIEFLY. I WENT TO THE ONLY SHOWING IN OUR AREA.
I was 19 when this happened. Between this and Ruby Ridge, I finished learning to never blindly trust the government. In both instances, no one needed to die. However, the suits in DC thought they knew best. That almost always ends in disaster for the average citizen. Nothing much has changed, really. Especially if you're paying attention to the type of people the Feds are going after today. The Constitution seems to be a hindrance instead of guidance for them.
In both cases, the suits in DC intentionally made matters worse because they felt they needed to "show the American people who's boss" by making an example out of these people. America isn't free. We just live under the illusion of freedom.
The FBI started the fire and the FBI was firing into the compound ( per infrared video) as it burned, preventing people from escaping. Either Bill Clinton or Janet Reno should have stopped the murder of American citizens in the compound but chose not to. Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden were in charge of the congressional investigation of Waco, but no one was charged or went to jail for murder.
This was Janet Renos biggest fail.
And rarely is there any kind of justice in DC (unless they want it, against political opponents) because it's DC judges, DC juries, etc.
I briefly spoke to an FBI agent about this (including Ruby Ridge) several years ago and he said they blew it and blamed it on the good old boy network in WDC.
I was a police officer in the Dallas area when this happened. The initial reaction to the breaking news was that a bunch of armed religious fanatics had killed federal officers attempting to lawfully execute a search warrant, but as the tragic story unwound, we all could see that this was a horrific power play by the Clinton administration (which was notoriously anti-gun) intended to show the might and anti-2A sentiment of the federal government. While there is no question that Koresh was a perverted, evil person who committed multiple felonies, he could have been peacefully arrested at any time. None of the rest of it was necessary.
well said
The fact that they could have peacefully (or at least far less violently) arrested Koresh should be a frightening thing to all Americans. Like you, I've always found Koresh to be a nut, but the use of force was completely unnecessary. I have issues with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge too, but no one should have died in either instance.
@@DaveMustang74
At the bottom of these events was an attempt to use the same tactics that the IRS used to keep people honest about paying their taxes. They would pick a person in each neighborhood to be audited and that supposedly kept the majority of the people honest. Here they used excessive force and the US Attorney General to keep people afraid.
I like how you have Dave condemned as a bad guy. Convienient
I remember listening to him on the radio for several hours and thinking about how much of a nut job he was, and then after many of the facts started to come out, I drew the same conclusion as you. No one deserves to be treated like that…not even that pedophile lunatic.
I remember the television coverage, and constantly explaining to people at work that those "tanks" were Combat Engineer Vehicles, and they do NOT have outside firefighting equipment. Floored a few people that the gun tube has a 6 1/2" bore diameter, and you can fire teargas from inside the turret through the main gun bore, while being safe from return fire.
The Ferret tear gas rounds , when fired into a burning building, produce a toxic cyanide gas as a byproduct of the smoke being catalysed by the fire.
One way or another, Janet Reno was going to make an example of those people. The whole Clinton administration was anti-gun, Reno was worse then, than Merrick Garland is today, and they were pushing back on a lot of Constitutional rights.
The FBI,ATF, and CIA are dangerous organizations and generally supervised by people that scorn the constitution l
Did you know that Jackboot Janet's Bachelor's degree was in Chemistry? She knew full well what would happen when tear gas meets fire.
Your insight and the information you shared is appreciated. Thanks.
All it would take was a spark of electricity mixed with tear gas that they obviously fired to cause a fire. Not to mention the combustion created by a firearm being shot. The government started the fire, the government killed everybody in that building whether they pulled the trigger or not.
Reno was worse than Merrick Garland? I was only 10 when this occurred, but that’s a hell of a claim. I’m not disagreeing with you, but Garland is a hack and utter garbage. Was Reno really worse?
I worked in Waco a few years after the event. Several locals all told me that Koresh was in town on weekends playing music in bars and selling baked goods on the sidewalk. The local police knew him and could have picked him up without a fuss! Totally unnecessary to kill all those innocent people. Big brother at its best!
It was all theatrical play by the USG that went badly off script. Vernon actually looked more in control of himself than the USG agents. An abomination what they did to the innocent and children. The nation has never recovered, and the USG has gotten much worse.
This is just another example of our government preferring strong arm tactics and displays of force over safe and effective smart alternatives. David Koresh, as reported, regularly left the compound and went jogging. He could have been easily arrested without incident. Then with their leader gone, there would have been a much better chance of avoiding violence. In fact, they could have probably made a deal with Koresh in exchange for his cooperation including calling on his followers to cooperate. By needlessly putting innocent children and others in danger, they demonstrated how little they care about protecting the innocent. All they care about is protecting their power. This attack was nothing more than a demonstration of force intended to intimidate the general public.
And justify their existence and budget.
Everyone involved in the Rudy Ridge tragedy should have been fired and escorted out of FBI offices by security at the very least. Horiuchi should have NEVER been allowed in the field again after Ruby Ridge. His service rifle was found to have been re-barreled immediately after the Waco siege.
Did you know that in return for his “service” at Ruby Ridge & for what I can only surmise as being a show of gratitude for it, by the FBI, in the year since Ruby Ridge leading up to Waco, he was promoted to “Head Sniper” for the FBI. And was also rumored to have had his prints on te murdering of a returning compound member who was unarmed & found riddled with bullet holes & lying dead, near a ditch from where he was attempting to sneak into the compound to join his people.
@@Detraf-ohw The biggest asset an officer of these branches of Justice is to carry out orders without question and with 100% efficiency. He did what he was told and he was rewarded for it.
@@elonever.2.071
And so did the SS prison guards at Auschwitz at the gas chambers!
One of the few moments in our nations history that will forever be cemented in my mind
Good.
Never drop your guard.
Absolutely.
From what I remember, the ATF was about to lose funding and it needed an incident to show the Federal Government that it was a worthwhile agency.
I heard the same thing.
Federal LE can kill people without justification and get away with it.
All they needed to do was to wait until Koresh went into town on an errend, or play his guitar, and arrest him then.
But they had to try to prove something...
Very interesting, I had no idea, and had never ever heard this reason cited before, as far as legitimizing & necessitating the raid. Thanks for the info/input
That was also the inspiration behind the Ruby Ridge incident and the same teams participated in both events
Yup
The AG had investigated the atf and found the agency and it's members in violation of most every law they enforce.
1000's of weapons,greandes, explosive devices, silencer's and every manor of conficated items Missing and or found in agents personal collections.
They were being disbanded.
The raid Showtime was to show how necessary they were.
Hello to the Clinton family
Forgetting History is one thing, never learning from it is another.
The gov, doing what the gov does best
At the time, I was in the police academy in Bell County , Texas. At the time I was totally gung ho and on the side of law enforcement in my beliefs. Also, I was freshly discharged from the military. But, now at 53 and out of law enforcement, after learning the facts and settling myself down. I believe it should have been handled a lot different. I believe they could have made an arrest and let him have his day in court without the risk of getting others killed. I believe the ATF wanted a big show to brag about and it was badly planned from the leadership of the federal government. It is a blight on the reputation of fair and decent lawmen forever.
I WAS EX STATE AND FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, THERE IS NO DECENT LAWMAN, JUST CORRUPT ONES AND THE ONES THAT GO ALONG WITH IT.
Me too. I was a rookie Houston police officer, all kinds of gung ho, retired now. Realized as the years passed I was helping to create a society I did not want to live in after I retired and was no longer one of "us", but was now one of "them".
Thank you for service & reckoning & speaking out against Undue tyranny.
@@robertshirley1192I bet you don’t live in the Houston city limits eh
I remember seeing the agents blasting the Nancy Sinatra song,” these boots are made for walkin” on tv. Not really a tactic for deescalating the situation. Kind of the opposite actually. I was a psych major at the time. Shouldnt take a psych degree to know that. Not antigovernment. Definitely against the politicians running it though ever since that moment
Wierd how many of the people in power then are still in power today. But democracy though right?
Exactly
Actually, no. Not democracy, but a Constitutional Republic in which one of the two main political parties and half of the other reject the Constitution and elect politicians who have no intention of abiding by their oaths of office.
@@dougearnest7590bu bu but, “democracy‼️”. Politicians and people talk about it like politicians are giving people more choice. “Democracy” to me means the same thing as “woke”. Leftist bull 💩
I have no experience of the US government, however it has been my experience that officials of the British government will freely lie with little or no provocation, with reasons like , bigotry, not wanting to resolve an issue, absence of proper training or a desire to express control. Each of these has been in my experience as a voter and taxpayer.
I love my country, but the older I get the more I realize that they have done some really messed up things just to stay in control. Sadly, at the very minimum, I think @umhvu just described every government on the planet lately. Especially the comments about the "absence of proper training or a desire to express control". BTW - Great video and probably the most objective description of what happened I have ever seen. Please keep up the good work.
They could have call David koresh alone and arrested him it's the government's way of showing we the people what they will do to us if we get out of line.
I don’t think Korean was “targeted”??? He was a pedophile!!! More likely they were trying to make the ATF and DOJ look good after Ruby Ridge.
They wanted an image of ATF rescuing children from a pedophilic evil machine gun manufacturer… The Dravidian’s wanted an apocalypse (or at least Koresh did). The Dravidian’s themselves did very little possibly nothing illegal. However Koresh deserved to go down.
The travesty is the overreach. Koresh would have ended up dead one way or another on his own!!!
The way the ATF operated and justified was the problem…the FBI response was the criticality.
Honestly I blame UPS for everything as everyone should!!!
Keep this in mind, arresting Caresh away from the compound risked evidence important to their case being destroyed by those at the compound. But I agree the feds over reacted big time.
By the people. For the people. Nope. Hasn't been for a long time.
@@trob1173Edward Bernays. “Torches of freedom “ is a great example of how easy it is to manipulate public opinion. Edward Bernays was the nephew of Sigmund Freud. He was the American version of goebbels, before goebbels. Politicians have been manipulating public opinion for over a century
He opened the front door for them, and they submachinegunned him. Everything the feds used to do this was a lie.
A very close friend of mine in San Antonio, who was a class 3 firearms dealer (machine guns, silencers, etc.), was retained by one of the Branch Davidians' lawyers to examine the firearms seized in the raid and offer his opinion regarding whether or not any of them had been illegally converted to full automatic. He told me the remains of the AR15 receivers he was shown were in such a state that he could not make a determination one way or the other. However, very shortly after his visit the ATF descended on his home and began an unannounced inspection of his records by multiple ATF personnel. They spent the next three days conducting a detailed examination of his bookkeeping and his inventory, but could find nothing out of order and reluctantly left. However, the message they had sent was clear, so Ken called the Davidian attorney who had hired him and told him he could not continue helping them with their case research. He was a nervous wreck for quite some time following this incident and remained fearful he was now on ATF's radar (I think he was, but that's another story). Anyway, I agree this entire tragedy was grossly mishandled, resulting in an outcome that was far worse than Ruby Ridge. As one gun editor so eloquently and succinctly wrote after the affair died down, "Ultimately, it was a contest between a man who thought he was the son of God and a government that thought it was God."
Wow...I knew somebody who knew somebody that talked to someone who was there too
@@JMAC479 Why do you find it necessary to mock and lie?
@@Paladin1873How do we know youre not lying?
@@LND209 What reason would I have to lie? I don't prosper from doing so, the story is not about me, and it doesn't put anyone in a particularly favorable light. I only recounted it because it is a small part of the history of this awful event and may serve as a warning to others of what they can expect if they ever run afoul of our government. You can choose not to believe it is true, but I suggest you heed its warning.
@@Paladin1873 I could say the same to you when you said the other dude was lying. How do you know he was lying?
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
Mr. Reagan
I was at several of those gun shows. The trigger assemblies later claimed to have been on the Branch Davidians' weapons were bought legally and the assembly packages had the official stamp of the BATF&E.
#FACTS Not to mention they legally sold firearms at gun shows to make money. So of course they had stock. Which turned out to be shit... Oh BUT All photos of the firearms BUT 1 AK with a folder...
BULLSHIT
I was 22 and watched the entire thing, I've read a fair bit on the siege since. Not sure which was more revolting, the incompetence or lack of regard for lives and safety.
I was also 22 at the time. Last quarter of nursing school when a classmate ran-in relaying the building was burning. We all felt dread knowing women and children were burning alive. Our government murdered those innocent individuals w/ impunity.
You told this story in a very objective way. You didn't sugar coat the misdeeds on either side. It was a tragedy, to be sure. And I lived in the Waco area (Bruceville/Eddy) and used to see the Branch Dividian women in the supermarket as late as the early 2000s from time to time...
It’s amazing that the entire compound and all the people in it, including those in the concrete bunker, were burned to ashes but the ATF and FBI were able to recover all those weapons in almost pristine condition. Many military style weapons are fitted with plastic stocks and furniture but the fire seemed to have no effect on them…………….AMAZING!
As a Texan I watched this event in real time and never understood why after losing element of surprise that ATF continued with plan. Lives would have been saved if they had stopped after that fact. Did they not know? David was a nut. It never would of had a good outcome. Great video thank you.
I bet that was strange. How much truth was coming out at that time, I wonder. Be well🍻🇺🇲
@AxeRedrum It was not confirmed at the time that they had been tipped off. But watching on that roof it appeared very clear they knew they were coming.
If they wanted to arrest David they had countless opportunities when he went to town.
@@rebelscumspeedshopExactly. He was unarmed. My dad saw him in town almost every day.
@@AxeRedrum Very little of the truth came out at the time. In fact, at that point in time, there was more evidence to support the theory that Kurt Cobain was killed than there was truth about Waco coming out
Colin, please cover some civil asset forfeiture stories. There are thousands upon thousands to choose from. Particularly cash siezures where there was no conviction or even charges filed.
Yes, we are aware. Thanks.
"seizures" aka outright theft after the massacre...
Janet Reno needed to swing for this and Ruby Ridge
Janet Reno was not the Attorney General at the time of the Ruby Ridge incident. Her handling of the Waco incident was shameful though. If indicted, I suspect she would have claimed she was mislead by federal law enforcement
I recall seeing her on TV back then. Bet with confidence that she was definitely a swinger.
I remember watching the event unfold on TV. It was horrible and infuriating. Frankly, I don't care what or how many weapons one has, it matters what one does with them. There are legal gun owners with hundreds of military-grade weapons who never hurt anyone. IF our government would respect the Second Amendment; IF they had just left them alone; IF they had bothered to research them; IF they had picked up Koresh on a jog or in town, this massacre wouldn't have happened. But it did, and has fueled distrust of our government ever since.
Our government has a penchant for harassing law-abiding citizens, yet never pursues murderers, robbers, thieves, etc.
You forgot the part where merick garlen, today's ag covered it up...😉
Can you please give me some information to go on ? I tried a basic keyword search but it just takes me to Oklahoma city stuff. You know how hidden some information can be online. Sorry for not being more tech savvy.
Thanks Colin. Along w/Ruby Ridge and other events by 3 letter agencies, there is unaccountability and unanswered questions.
My husband and I (we had just started dating when the fire happened) sat watching this, talking on the phone with each other. Aftermath, his ex, who worked for Texas DPS crime lab, was one of the people who had to do the site marking. She said it was horrific.
Thank you for this very informative talk.
I remember whe this was in the news. I didn't understand why the feds had to be so brutal and where was the governor of Texas in this sad chapter. What was the federal government so afraid of?
The Governor at that time, was Gorge W Bush Jr., and the Bush resident’s, known as the Crawford Ranch was further down that same road.
The Governor’s office was silent on the matter, to the best of my knowledge? However, I find it interesting, that the one thing that the Bush family and the Clinton’s have in common is that they are all New World Order, Globalist.
And guess who the next President would become?
That’s right, Gorge W Bush Jr!
Sometimes it’s a good idea to remain silent if you don’t want the public to remember that you lived just down the road from the Waco debacle when you were in charge of the State.
As it mayhap look as though you had them removed (the Branch Davidian’s).
I believe that we haven’t had a President that hasn’t been a Globalist Sense John F Kennedy? And they assassinated him. That said, that’s only my opinion? And opinions like armpits? Each of us have them,
And they usually stink😶🌫️
Just saying 🫠
Remember this was the ATF's attempt to make themselves look good.
Also they posed for pictures with the skulls of the citizens/children afterwords.
How Marxist of them.
Very strange about our media, they will take pics of you and me, Bible believing Christians, veterans , conservatives, and Republicans with skulls and children's bodies, but not when their own little hit squads do it. That's why absolutely no one at all respects the ATF or FBI, because they are corrupt boot lickers of the dems
It worries me 70% of "Americans" still either don't care about government tyrannical in actions or don't believe it happens. I see thing's getting worse every year.
@@mikewright8033I have no problem with most in these agency's. Unfortunately the hand full of bad actor's hold power for some unexplainable reasons.
@@Trump2024asw Remember the German occupation of Jersey Island? The English Bobbys colaborated with them, so to not risk their pensions.
That the governor of Texas didn't put a stop to it is telling.
The Governor at the time was Ann Richards, a Democrat Clinton ally, so probably not a coincidence.
It was Ann Richards, she marched in lockstep with Bill Clinton, Janet Reno and the rest of the globalists.
I’m from here. ‘Ol Weapons of Mass Destruction Bush was Governor. Boy oh boy did he screw up our gas prices a decade later.
This was all over the television and kept a nation glued. And I believe we all cried watching the buildings burn knowing it could have been different. Rest in peace to all the victims and this reminds us that when you step out of line you will be made an example.
"this reminds us that when you step out of line you will be made an example" - Not true. None of the Feds were prosecuted.
Thank you. We must never forget what Bill Clinton and Janet Reno did to this nation.
With what we know about the GOVERMENT today. Who knows what really went down. But I believe massacre is a good word to describe the situation.
Not much has changed with the FBI and ATF .I was an officer in Waco at the time. And FBI agent was being driven around the complex shot 37mm gas grenades into the windows and even parts of the walls. The modified gas tank was ramming the front. The fire was started by the gas grenades no doubt. They burned them up . Sickening. Vernon was not a great guy but the other woman and children were innocent. ☹️
Ah yes, the time America used ersatz flamethrower tanks on children.
Thanks for watching.
David Koresh and his leadership clique regularly frequented a buffet lunch every Tuesday at a nearby shopping center.
Same day, same time.
They all could have been taken into custody at a place and time that law enforcement authorities chose and not had the tactical advantage of cover and concealment and numbers.
Would you consider exploring the 1946 Battle of Pulaski, Tennessee?
We could do Pulaski, there is a good movie about it.
@@FORGOTTENHISTORYCHANNEL Yeah, those young WWII vets were not about to put up with any silliness.
A segment on the mass graves found in the Katyn Forest would be fascinating.
@@FORGOTTENHISTORYCHANNEL "An American Story" (1992), starring Brad Johnson, Hallmark television movie. It's worth watching and available for free on UA-cam. Some great dialogue.
“Why does it always have to come down to a war?”
“Because some people can’t be reasoned with.”
@@bele2.041are you talking about the battle of athens?
Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC, and there will be more.
I've never been much of a conspiracy theorist.
The ole extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all.
That and despise cult leaders taking advantage of troubled people and their weaknesses.
However, I watched the final siege in real time.
Til this day, I'm absolutely convinced that the government burned them all out to "teach us lesson" for what happens if you stand up that strongly to the government.
As a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment, I firmly believe it encompasses the right to own fully automatic arms, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, 50BMG arms and 40mm grenade launchers. These firearms are vital for self-defense, personal safety, and preserving individual freedoms.
Second amendment specifically uses the word “arms” not rifles, and not guns, because they intended for civilians to be able to obtain military grade arms that could check the power of the state
The entire constitution is setup as a series of checks and balances and the final check on power was the 2nd amendment which allowed citizens to do what they did in the revolution
This video is all the proof you need.
You forgot tanks
I whole heartedly agree.
And to prevent tyranny.
Plenty of blame to go around. They could have picked up him and any of the leaders and so-called bad guys at the hardware stores and on the streets around town. Why it was necessary to exercise and display the testosterone in the agency is beyond me.
Gun control
This was one of the most watched yet tragic moments in American history.
Would they do it now if they were Islamic...I doubt it.
On the other hand, if they were 'chosenites' they'd even get financial support
Abolish the ATF!!
Govt corruption is a consistent trait, no matter which party is in power. It just manifests differently depending on who is in power.