How I Almost Made Wasteland 2
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2023
- I tell the story of how, after leaving Interplay in early 1998, I was offered a job at Electronic Arts to make Wasteland 2.
p.s. this video is too short for me to control the ads in it. I am only offered that control if the video is longer than 8 or 9 minutes. - Ігри
![ЛЕБЕДЕВ у ДУДЯ: муху не обманешь 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E74h5fvVrqs/mqdefault.jpg)
Sounds like EA was being EA.
EA, EA never changes.
Hello Tim! You may not know what we do, but nevertheless, I want to say thank you. Thanks to your work on Fallout 1, I found my path as a game developer, and it eventually allowed me to create my dream game. Please don't stop, I want more games from you, and I really hope to shake your hand someday at a gaming expo. Dmytro.
Oh, I’ve played Atom RPG, and I liked it. You keep doing what you’re doing! I’m slowing down and can’t run this race, so you and others need to grab the baton and keep running!
@@CainOnGames Thank you so much for your response! I honestly didn't think I'd hear back from you. You're amazing and you've made my day.
I know I'm late to the party, but ATOM RPG rocks! I own it and Trudograd on multiple platforms. Can't get enough of it. Love your work and wish you nothing but amazing success and fulfillment in your endeavors. Bless you for keeping the flame burning strong!
Hi, Tim. There is a lot of cool stuff on your background: fallout related items, statues, books. I've been wondering, could you do a "room-tour" video and show them? Also i guess that there are some interesting stories related to those items that you could share with us! Thank you
His background is his background
Firstly let me say how lucky we are that you decided to stick with Troika and make Arcanum!
Secondly, I am so impressed by the comradery between you, Leonard, and Jason during that time. It seems such alignment of values is incredibly rare, especially in creative endeavors.
Thank you for the story Tim!
The most upstanding EA conduct:
Alternate title : How I dodged the biggest bullet of my career
"You're a hard person to find, Mr Kane."
Sounds like the start of a table top RPG session.
It scares me that the 6 year gap between Wasteland 1 and Fallout seemed like forever for GenX me. Now, 6 years ago seems like yesterday.
I know what you mean. I’m GenX too, and starting Fallout in 1994 felt a million years away from Wasteland’s shipping in 1988. And now…I recently replayed Skyrim from 2011, a 12-year-old game!
Time is weird.
Part is age i think so i agree with you there. But part is also back then creativity wasnt corrupt or bankrupt. So if you waited for fallout 3 then there was real hope that it would be amazing (sure there were flops but there was also a lot of greatness). Today it is rivers of trash. So the wait is not really a wait. I mean sure f5 might be good but what are the odds? Since both movies and games are more or less creatively bankrupt the chance we see another IP like Arcanum or Fallout is very low. Even a new fallout game (76 is horrible) like f5 will probably be made in an enviroment where microtransactions will the highest priority and even if not then will it be made by hugely passionate and free workers? Lol unlikely indeed.
Or baldurs gate 3? The two first were amazing. The third is meh.
Or look at the movies. It is all remakes of old IPs. Maybe it is the systems. Maybe it is the people. But it isnt working anymore.
The madmax movie furyroad was great. I seriously doubt a new one would be worth a watch. The new terminator films are horrible. The new starwars films as well. Something is just gone.
So yeah we play skyrim from 12 years ago. Or Arcanum from 22 years ago.
The lengthening of production and 10x multiplying the number of hands feels like a recipe for like, 20x+ the number of meetings where interesting developments are lost. Politics, and all the time taken to carry it out.
@@lilwerner1518 honesty is good.
@@ikeduno7973 the budget is tenfold. The number of workers tenfold. The result is wanting.
You mean EA made a dick move? No way...
You made the right choice Tim. That EA exec was a waking red flag.
Wasteland 2 probably would've 'failed to meet expectations' and EA would've let you go in 2002-2003. Or they would've forced you into making something you didn't want to do. EA killed a lot of good companies around then. Maybe Arcanum would've came out after you got let go by 2006-07. But being a small indie studio then would've been tough. You making your own studio when you did was the prime time to do it.
You didn't talk about it on this video but as a gamer I had the exact same thought you had on the DeathClaw in Fallout 4 being totally out place being in the first area. By killing the apex predator in the first moment in the wasteland it made the wasteland feel safe. It was so bizarre. I get why Bethesda did it, to get the action going quick and shock you, but it was the wrong choice. I wasn't thinking of it in terms of game design, just as a gamer I was thinking "huh, that was weird."
Bethesda cared more about making the E3 presentation look cool and making F4 more like an action movie than following the tone set by the previous games. Still love Fallout 4, but it’s a far cry from the atmosphere we got from the previous installments. Hopefully they learned their lesson and next time listen to what the long time fans want out of the series, but judging by sales, who knows? Corporations like Zenimax care more about mass appeal than making a piece of art that resonates with the long time fans
"The deathclaw was done *dirty* by Fallout 4." ~ MATN :D
Bethesda seems to take the interchangable approach even to iconic entities like the Deathclaw. The E3 presentation was obviously staged and yet remained in the game, but it has a lot to do with Bethesda's level scaling as well. Locations are populated with...whatever, anything will do. Low level players get ghouls; higher level players get deathclaws. That kind of thing. I'm not sure they're really thinking about how that interchangability doctrine robs iconic entities, e.g. super mutants and deathclaws, of their uniqueness and identity.
@@lrinfi they should do a mixture of scaling from both Fallout 4 and Morrowind. Like Fallout 4, have certain parts of the map have enemies of a certain level, but also have dungeons within those areas that are high level like in Morrowind. That way you get to explore the map with a sense of progression, but also you can go back to those lower level areas as a high level character and still have new places to see. That way it’s not like Fallout 4 where you do everything in an area at once and then have no reason to ever come back.
@@Hoppelite Tim is probably wincing at us conversing so much about what Bethesda is doing on his personal, storytelling channel. :) But - hey - if Bethesda is watching, maybe they'll stumble across something beneficial to the future of the company. You never know.
"In recycling these elements, they've chosen not to be creative in the new setting." ~ Noah Caldwell-Gervais, How Does Fallout 76 Compare to Previous Fallouts (He was speaking specifically of the intensity of the effort to try and explain the presence of the BOS in W. Va., but I think it applies in more ways and circumstances than one.)
I'd have to agree with that. When I traveled to the Mire region in 76, I was taken aback to see unique creatures, originally designed for Far Harbor, there. Erm, those belong in Far Harbor, not W. Va. So much for the unique setting and atmosphere of Far Harbor?
Like I said, I'm not sure they're really thinking about things like that in the industry's mad rush simply to get games out the door.
Calling every Tim Cain in the phonebook lol. Love your stories.
That secretary is an unsung hero! 😆 Can only imagine being given the task of going through a Southern California phone book and cold calling every T. Cain. HAHA!
An unsung hero that thought it was hilarious to have a bunch of game devs being fed false hopes and working for something that'll never happen.
EDIT: The secretary didn't take that decision, I'm saying she also thought it was funny. Laughing at people wasting their time because of a lie is still dickish.
EDIT 2: I actually confused the secretary who just made contact and the later guy who did find it funny, that's my bad!
@@gargamellenoir8460 Last I checked, a secretary doesn't have any power in a company when it comes to decision making/product licensing. Maybe I'm wrong and it's up to them instead of CEOs and whatnot.
@@TonNyOs I wondered if I had to specify that I didn't accuse her of being responsible for it, just of finding it funny, but thought it was pretty clear in my formulation. I guess not.
@@gargamellenoir8460 You seem to have mixed up the secretary and the "W" guy Tim was talking to. She only made the initial contact, then passed Tim over to "W". There's zero indication in this video that she found EA's treatment of Interplay funny, or that she even knew about it (she most likely didn't).
@@RaddSchmetterling Oh crap you're right about that, that's my mistake, thanks!
Loved Wasteland 2. It had that Fallout vibe that is actually missing in Wasteland 3.
Same, and the story was mysterious and intriguing. I really like Wasteland 3, but I prefered Wasteland 2.
It had a vibe, that was missing in any fallout after fallout 2. Wasteland 3 is just an xcom joke 😪
oof, in regard to that EA shit. "When someone tells you who they are, listen"
I really like Tim Cain's scruples. As we saw EA devouring other companies and not really caring about the devs and franchises they gained, this was likely a job best avoided.
I love to start my day from Timothy's "Today I wanna tall about..." it really makes me happy:)
I think we're all glad you didn't do it. You are such a good person with real integrity.
Sidenote- I had to restart my Arcanum playthrough because Virgil decided to get lost in the forest outside T'sen-Ang. So, now I'm playing a Gnome summoner.
Cool story Tim. Thanks for all the great insight in to your career and such. A lot of people really appreciate and enjoy it.
Thank you for Fallout . Admire your work. Like these "behind the scenes" vids . Keep em coming. Best wishes on all future endeavors.
your thumbnails are really good Tim
I absolutely love that you decided to do this channel, this is wonderful stuff!
Really enjoying the content Tim. These stories offer a very neat inside look to how these things come together, complete aside that globe in the back is sick
Looking forward to this video every morning, I will work on my game now :D
Loving the longer videos, the podcast style suits a lot, I hope you have more of those planned, I make the most of those.
That's right where my head was, mid-story, like, I can absolutely put myself in that guy's shoes feeling jerked around by Interplay at the time and being petty in return and loosening his corpofilter w a guy like Timothy on the other end of the line... but to air that dirty laundry over a phone?! As a way to entice a new hire?! Sheesh.
we had an 0x86! no hard drive, just 2 5.25" floppy drives that required having a disk in to boot up!
Leading Edge from 1985-1986
didn't get another computer until 1994, a 486x66 - WOW! it was so fast!
public domain games from the 70s-80s were a thing of the past
and now I miss them!
I love that your friends saw the situation with EA the same way and had your back. I think you made the right call for the reasons you stated. Plus, we don't know what would've happened after, whether you would be too tangled up to make The Outer Worlds or not. I'm glad you chose the path you did, glad you have time to do work and tell us these stories. Thanks for sharing, Tim! :D
I can sure understand how you passed on that opportunity.
On the other hand, I’d have enjoyed another turn based game from you. Such is life!
I really like InXile's games, but it seems like a lot of people think Brian Fargo is an ass.
It's kind of funny to me that Brian Fargo ended up making Wasteland 2 with Inexile entertainment. Lol
Thanks for the story, Tim.
Do you happen to know how Brian Fargo managed to buy the Wasteland IP from EA?
Thanks.
Hey Tim, love your videos, they're all super insightful and watching is part of my morning! Good on you for following your gut about EA, they don't sound like the most considerate employers. Also, I know you said you couldn't answer many Outer Worlds questions, but would you happen to have any idea if the Iconoclasts and Philosophism were influenced at all by the irl Discordianism? OW is one of my favorite games, and it's due in no small part to the "philosophistic" content.
Some misticism for you: Troyka made only three games, but they became undying classics. And you undoubtedly know that in Russian "troyka" means "three horses pulling one carriage or one sleigh". And in Russian folklore, "three" is a very popular number in choices, wishes, roads to go, and so on.
Surely, all of this is a coincidence, but a funny one.
I always found the fact that Troika only made three games fitting.
Jung might have called it synchronicity, which has more to do with time and timing. The "power of three" shows up time and again in human myth and folklore. Gebser would probably attribute that to what he called "the magical consciousness structure." If studios are looking for compelling, original ideas for video game storytelling, ntm breaking out of the thesis-antithesis-synthesis form of storytelling, they could hardly go wrong reading the work of someone like Jean Gebser.
"Hey it's EA, we screwed with your company. Wanna work for us now?"
That definitely seems like an incredibly shitty thing to do to Brian Fargo. He clearly feels pretty strongly about Wasteland. Even if the guy was an asshole, trying to weaponize a falling out like that against him just seems exceptionally slimey.
But then again, this is EA and nothing really is beyond the pale for them.
No Bloodlines? You definitely made the right decision!!
That sounds like something they'd do. Good for you!!
Definitely some what if alternate history there. Can you talk about the character editor in fallout? Listening to your videos, I think I know why there was a print option, but I'd like to hear more about it. It's a unique feature I haven't really seen elsewhere.
Principles over paycheck. That's a rare thing!
Yup. Sounds like EA all right. Did you warn Interplay that they were being played?
1990 played wasteland on the apple II at age 10 and "encountering" the three legged doxy was a defining life event. The intro cut scene was very 'duck and cover' and 1980's red scare. The Church of the Mushroom Cloud was a neat choice that must have informed later nuka based religions and I thought at the time was a cool (RAD! i.e. totally rad) idea.
Well, we need Arcanum 2 too, btw. That game deserves a remaster at least.
"Is this the Timothy Cain who made Fallout? Oh, thank goodness!"
Another lesson in integrity. Chaotic evil: fun in games, bad in life.
I like your vids.
Question: How did Fallout differ before the removal of GURPS? Was the game markedly different?
I can understand this william (especially now)
and I think you can still call back....
Did you play or enjoy the actual Wasteland 2 when it came out, Tim?
good instincts :) and twice as important, the ability to act on them.
Well, I wonder if you've ever been offered to take part in W2 development when it actually happened (after Kickstarter. etc)
Random question but are you aware of the Fallout Vault 13 mod for FO4? It's shaping up to be quite the project from everything I've seen so far. A real love letter to FO1. A demo should be coming later this year.
Okey that 3:31 gave me a chuckle. But nevertheless it was a very interesting.
A question, if i may ? If someone would give you to make new Fallout today, do you know exactly what setting would it be , tone , story etc?
Yes. I’ve had a Fallout game designed for years. I release no details of it so that way I know any game like it is just a coincidence.
@@CainOnGames Thank you.
I don't know if you talked about this topic before but, how is your relation with Brian Fargo nowadays?
Hope I don't come out as inappropriate with that question.
It was not hard to play Wasteland! I beat it when i was 11 years old. Still my favorite GOAT.
im really glad we got the undiluted goods from troika instead of the ea and sequel baggage of a wasteland 2 we can get apocalyptic rpgs anywhere where else can we get an apocalyptic industrial fantasy rpg or a buffy immersive sim
Congratulations, you have experienced corporate policy.
I sometimes wonder why people cry about "no politics" when everything we do is embedded in politics.
Sarah Connor?
Hi Tim, if radiation is responsible for Ghouls, then why didn't the world discover about them after Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
In the long scope, EA are super-jerks, so I don't take much of what they say about perspective with much seriousness.
Hey tim it is me fredrik. Never cared for wasteland. I ofc played fallout before i saw wasteland and compared to Fallout wasteland is bland. Good you made Arcanum instead! Just stopped playing Arcanum foe the day. Arrived at black mountain mines. Handcannon human, healing jacket, and charged rings with Virgil, Magnus and dog. With UAP and my balance mod. Great fun!
Made imply late stage of development
it would have gotten stuck in development hell due to overreaching figures in EA, you would have been blamed for it and replaced, it wouldn't ship until 2010 and be a completely different game
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Turning down EA games was probably one of the best decisions you made in your entire career, lol...
I think this is one of the most inspiring of all stories so far.
Hi Tim, I was just wondering if you've heard of an event called Wasteland Weekend? It's a giant Burning Man-ish festival that takes place out near California City, and some of the attendees definitely celebrate fallout with their costumes. If you ever check it out or are curious, I'd hope to hear that from you. My group makes fake Jet and act like Chem runners... lots of fallout fans among us!
Tim, do you have an email for inquiries?
Sounds like EA all right. I seem to recall, and my memory may be fuzzy, that The Guardian from Ultima VII was inspired by EA and their way of doing business (looking at the timelines, Trip was still running the show during Ultima VII's development). The Guardian, of course, liked to invade worlds, absorb the resources and destroy them. And EA certainly liked buying companies, absorbing and killing the IP and leaving wreckage in it's wake (which included Origin, Bullfrog and too many others). I'm amazed Fargo was able to somehow wrest control of Wasteland from the Guardian. Of course what EA did with the "System Shock" name is a tale in it's own right, showing just how much EA "cares" about the titles it absorbed. You did well by avoiding working with them, especially in 1998.
Edited to add: Ah, see my memory isn't so fuzzy: casualaggro.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/ultima-vii-is-one-giant-reference-to-how-terrible-electronic-arts-is/