Jeep already builds a $25,000 Jeep, its called the Wrangler. Look, when you continue to use the same parts, same engineering, year after year those costs go down. The Wrangler with a simple gas engine should be available for sale at $25,000. The suspension is the same, the axles are the same, the body panels are the same, and you don't need to incorporate loads of technology. Basic seating surfaces and a soft top that only costs them $500 to make. Mismanagement is the reason the Wrangler costs $70K.
In Australia, Jeep sells Wranglers with a starting price above $90,000. I haven't seen a new Wrangler on the road in years. New Mercedes and BMW SUVs are cheaper.
Not even close. The dana 44 axless in a rubicon are massive with lockers front and rear that cost like 14 grand alone... thats just the axles. Most people want 35 inch tires now a days...so $300 or more per tire. Add in a transfer case, electronic sway bar disconnects ect...most vehichles these days are unibody suvs with no real transfer case or 4x4 system and weak independent suspension. If you want a body on frame true 4x4 with skid plates and the beefy axles and drive shafts, steel bumpers that are winch capable, lockers, high clearlence fenders, off road pages, off road cameras, and an engine and transmission with enough torque and gearing to move a vehichle like that...they dont cost 30 or 40 grand. Its not just the wrangler. The bronco, the coloado zr2, the tacoma, all these vehichles are in the same price range. What universe are people living in that they think this shit would cost 30 grand??? LMFAO
Yeah make a basement budget 2 door manual wrangler. AC being the only option. Call it the American Value Package. Remember the Grand Caravan AVP. Stock it on the lot and it’ll sell.
The concept of throwing sh!t on the wall hasn't worked for Stelantis in the US. Over-pricing Wranglers and Grand Cherokees to make up the difference is no longer working in their favor, they need a solid base to bring buyers in.
Problem is if they put out something new for $25k and there's any sort of demand, dealerships will jack the price up so it's no longer a value to most.
Axed the beloved Hemi, Challenger, Charger, and TRX. Raised prices on everything. Didn't release a new Dakota or mini trucklette to fight the Maverick. Didn't put the 392 or Hurricane engine in the Gladiator but DID take away its diesel option. Let the Bronco beat the Wrangler on value. Spent MILLIONS on developing/promoting the RAM REV Concept only to have 90% of its features axed on the production model. Amazingly these things didn't improve sales 🤔
Seems like they killed all of their success/potential for success. I can’t think of any company cancelling a product that is relatively successful (TRX) and then turn around and wonder why they are having financial problems. On top of this, the lack of Maverick competitor from both Ram and GM is baffling to me given how successful Ford has made it. And I think your comment about the Bronco is one of the most significant issues. They saw the bronco come out with the newest off roading technology coupled with a well built interior and then tried to sell wranglers as similarly high end vehicles while having the same infotainment and interior quality of a crappy Chrysler minivan, all while decreasing the quality of the actual vehicle components. Then they come out with the stuff discussed in the video, which is all glorified fiat rebadges
Stellantis is in trouble, not just Jeep. They have 14 different brands.....too many to maintain. Stellantis MSRP's in the US are running $10K higher than the industry average. My prediction is that Jeep and Ram will end up with new owners after Stellantis fails. Tavares is just not cutting it.
I purchased both kids Renegade Trailhawks for $24k out the door. Jeep already had a $25,000 vehicle...but those Stellantis idiots got greedy and did this to themselves. (For the haters...the Renegades are 4 & 5 years old without a single issue.) I still contend that the Renegade & Cherokee should have stayed and the Compass should have been axed.
2019 trailhawk for my son no issues and even was able to use it to recover my wrangler after a misadventure in snow. Getting rid of them or changing them in this way will be a huge mistake.
Without the Cherokee there is a huge gap in the Jeep product offering. Of course that market segment is also very competitive. Jeep’s fault if they could not make money with the Cherokee. Jeep’s fault if discontinuing the Renegade and Cherokee hurts their business.
@@maxschwartz2419 The Cherokee is about to be replaced with a ICE Version of the Wagoneer S !! Compass is slated to be a all new model as well. Then the Recon is coming shortly as well Jeep should have some newer iron shortly.
Too many years making trash vehicles for quality vehicles prices. Most people have learn and move on to another brands. They only want to sell vehicle to rich people but rich people buys real rich people vehicles.
Maybe - if it has decent quality, dealers don’t overprice it and kill customer sentiment, have reasonable production numbers, and provide packages people actually want vs. stuffing Stickers and putting only the most profitable top models on the dealer lots …… so realistically no chance
Dealerships don't see a 25,000 jeep. A base model Wrangler should be around 25-27 max. The pentastar is long in the tooth. The prices for lower trims don't really equate to anything breathtaking in terms of improvement. It shouldn't it's a base model Wrangler that has got away from it's core buyer.
Every wrangler I've seen, the consumer seems to add another 5-10k with aftermarket parts. When you get it from the dealership, you're paying almost the equivalent of what you put in yourself.
@@luchaDor I have a 2012 wrangler sport JK 4 door, that has basic locks, actual key, auto transmission, AC. It cost me $22k military discounts in November of 2012.
IMHO Jeep died when Stellantis took over. The Jeep name was synonymous with something tough that will climb a mountain like a goat. They got you where you wanted to go. Yeah you might have to work on it every now and then, but parts were cheap enough so you didn't mind so much. They took the Renegade name and stuck it on a little soyboy grocery getter. Stellantis knows nothing about American culture.
@@fishtwo1 I was thinking of selling my TJ Rubicon because I seldom off-road anymore and it only gets driven 1500 miles per year, but maybe I should hand onto it.
Because companies make money hand over fist with SUVs. A "dumbass" would be the guy who says "hey let's make a new sedan". All Americans want are SUVs and trucks.
I think you meant "let's build a car for the most competitive segment in the country". The mecan is Porsches best selling model ever, it keeps their lights on AND gives them more money to blow on low production gt3rs's. Toyota sells carollas and Rav 4s faster than they can make them. That gave them money to make silly loss leaders like the gr Corolla and 86. Stilantes haven't made a half decent regular car for regular people since the 80s k cars. Maybe someone could argue since the Neon, but that still paled compared to the civic or carolla. They love making nonsense like the 17 flavors of demons, 392 wranglers, and TRXs. But they don't have anything to compete for the general public's attention.
I drove a 4x4 Fiat Panda in Italy. It was buzzy, small, manual windows, 6 speed manual transmission, and frankly a lot of fun to drive. It had a smaller turning radius than my wife’s Prius, and soaked up cobblestone roads like they were glass smooth. But that kind of thing won’t sell anywhere outside of Quebec in North America.
You highlighted one of the underlying problems and may not even realize it. The dealership pricing model is just gross and vague at best. They are filled with salespersons who are trained more on sales tactics than the actual vehicle they're selling. One reason I prefer Tesla and Rivian is the transparent buying process. The traditional dealership model is a hot mess. I feel anxious, on guard, and defensive everytime I walk into a dealership. Doesn't matter the brand.
like i said before i love my 2023 trailhawk renegade,i did put the 1.3 turbo through hell a few days ago.i went from home in nv to slc utah, round trip 430 miles,outside temp 101 degrees going back and forth across salt flats at sustained speed of 80mph.engine rpms were 2600 at 80mph stll had pretty good power left,average mpg 27.4 so im happy with that and the fact it didnt blow up.i did have the breakin oil changed the next day 3270 miles,it was 1/2 qt low,mechanic said was to be expected with the temps we are having,but i think for longitivity i will be changing oil every 3=3500 miles which for me is twice a year.all in all very happy with stubby
I have a 2004 Jeep Liberty I bought $1,000. It was my mother's Jeep. She could not drive anymore. She and sis took piss poor care, and I needed to put in $2k of work in it to bring it up to speed. It has a very powerful 3.7l V-6 with only 149,000 miles. Still runs great. Very powerful engine, I can drive 80 mph all day, but don't. I generally like to go no faster than 70mph on California freeways. Why would I consider getting a toy Jeep with a 1.2l or 1.3l engine?????? If I have to buy a new car, it will be Honda or Toyota. Not Chrysler. They were good at one time but not now.
Jeep is slowly becoming an unrecognizable brand to me. I look at the Wagoneer and Wagoneer S and i ask where the "Jeep" is. To me Jeep has always been Rugged Utility, not posh American Luxery. Keep Jeep starting prices below 50,000. Keep them as simple as possible with utalitarian styling. Swap the grill of the Wagoneer and Wagoneer S and rebadge them as Chrysler products. Make Chrysler the American Luxery brand and Jeep as the affordable rugged SUV brand. If they want, they can make a new Wagoneer based on the current one, but stripped down with function in mind, rugged plastics instead of posh soft touch materials, make sure the cargo area is designed to be used for messes. Obviously moving upmarket with Jeep, in particular the Wrangler, has worked out poorly with that cliff of a sales drop off. There Stellantis, I fixed your self inflicted issues and revived your minivan life support brand as well.
The Compass was supposed to be a cheap vehicle, then it sold more than expected and price went up. Make a Compass with a V6 and a transfer case for 25K and they wouldn't be able to make enough.
Remember these Jeeps are badge engineered so Hybrids and electric power is already availabl;e across the stellantis brands. Peugeot 2008 and 3008 are the donor vehicles for Jeep... Opel... Vauxhall and Citroen.
Well 50g for a basic jeep is going to be its downfall. Learning a lesson from the success of the maverick and making an affordable jeep again is a great idea.
If they made something like the old Suzuki samurai with body on frame with a small 4. Cylinder and 6 speed manual as well offer 5-speed auto transmission they would sell !!! just offer 2 models but keep it simple no extreme bells and whistles .. just Air conditioning Am FM stereo, simple cloth seats no electric crap and manual windows but of course they would have to keep safety airbags and such but I think something like it would sell!!!
Has to have some level of tech by law at this point. Backup cameras are mandatory, so you have to have a screen; In addition to the screen, it's cheaper to just use the parts-bin uConnect system from all other Stellantis products, which gives you bluetooth and android auto/apple carplay. Beginning in 2026 all vehicles will have to have Automatic Emergency Braking as standard (iirc), so you'll have to have a front camera or radar system.
So no electric crap? No starter motor, alternator, spark plugs, plug packs or distributor? No 12 volt starter battery? No windshield wipers or heat and A/C fan or electric switches? No horn? No headlights, interior lights or tail lights? No fuel injection which has been around since the 1960's, and back to a carburetor? No radio or speakers? No ABS? No trailer hitch wiring or brake controllers? No more computers? No electric sensors or pollution controls? Sure, that'll work.😂
If this ever makes it into production, just remember, it's under the mismanagement of Stellantis. It will be a low quality POS that will sell for $40-60K. And there WILL be recalls on it year after year. Stellantis doesn't know WTF it's doing.
Have you seen what happened to the Ford Maverick? It was "supposed to turn Ford around." Instead, the stealerships have priced them so high that customers are walking out. And they are crap quality. I've seen a few in my city on stealership lots marked up a whopping $4-5K and they don't even have leather seats, CD players or aluminum wheels. $24K?! Really, Ford?! I've seen barely 10 Mavericks on the roads of my city this year. That's all I need to know. A compact pickup won't mean anything if nobody can afford it.
What they should do is just make it a PHEV-only option, but do it like the new Ram Charger (just scaled way down). That solves every issue. Even if they have to price it higher, it would qualify for EV incentives, so that wouldn't even matter. It would have tons of power, because we know pound-for-pound motors have more torque than engines. They could keep margins higher by focusing on economies of scale by limiting the power-train options to just one. It would get plenty of range do the gas generator. It would be a killer off-roader with a dual-motor setup. And it would help them flesh out this technology more, which no one else is doing.
The wrangler used to be affordable. Now it’s crazy expensive but the parts are basically still the same with a cheap interior so idk what they’re thinking lol
Wonder if they could do a hybrid with the "Toyota AWD" style axle motor that works off the batteries. Not a real AWD but good enough to use domestically like an axle lock option to get people out of a tight spot in say winter.
I currently have 2 Jeep Renegades: a 2021 Trailhawk for my wife and a 2022 (I think its an unlimited) for my son. I LOVE the 1.3L turbo engine (so far.) Its got plenty of power for this vehicle and it gets roughly 30 MPG going 70 miles an hour down the freeways (on a 45-ish mph road going straight it creeps up near 40mpg.) There is plenty of room inside (I am a pretty big guy) and its easy to get into and out of (as I get older, this becomes a BIG DEAL.) Overall, I like them, but do have some worries and some dislikes. First is the assembly quality on my wife's car. It had issues the very day we took it home that the dealer blamed on loose cable connectors (he mumbled something about "that little computer on wheels.") We also have continuing issues with the panoramic sunroof (I think its been in the shop at least 3 times and maybe 4 for issues and it was delayed getting shipped to us from the factory/body shop after we ordered it for weeks.) So far, the 2022 has had no QC issues. Next is the CRAZY BAD decision on where to put the fuse for the power adapter/lighter socket (it might make an interesting show to have you guys try to replace this fuse...it is REALLY hard to reach.) Lastly is the big question: "Will this tiny turbo engine be reliable long-term?" Both vehicles have low mileage (46K for the 2021 and 26K for the 2022), so time will tell. I hope they do, but got the extended warranty on one and will get it for the other too, just to be safe. I also am VERY careful about oil change intervals and feed them only high octane gasoline.
Tavares needs to start paying more attention to the American brands if he wants to see positive results, can't get more profits if he is not investing in new models for Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge and RAM
Pretty simple. Make a FWD 2.0T Wrangler, with All season tires, none of the offroad stuff. Either uni-body or body on frame (depending on engineering for having a soft top). Keep it below $30k for the person who never goes off road but would love to be able to drop the top and get the ‘Jeep Vibe’. Good stereo, god headlights, make it your city/beach/suburban Jeep that doesnt cost what the Sahara costs. 😎😎😎😎
Pricing and reputation. I don't know what the truth really is, but it's conventional wisdom that Stellantis vehicles are significantly lower in quality and longevity than others in their segments. The Wrangler had no real competition for a long time, but that falls apart with the Bronco and the Wrangler luxury pricing. In theory, you can get a basic soft top Wrangler for 32 grand. It's not like they CAN'T offer real Jeep features at a price under $75k.
A few points to consider - in the past 8 years, I’ve purchased two Jeep models often described as junk. Patriot (4cyl, 6 sp auto) and the Cherokee (4 cylinder, 9 sp). They’ve been decent every day cars that I purchased with specific trim options. The Cherokee is underpowered, but now at 96K miles, it has been reliable so far. The key was the pricing, both purchased as good discounts and well under $25K. The only comparable current model is the Compass - which is smaller and more costly. The last version of the Cherokee on sale was bloated with options that cause the reliability problems and priced 40 - 50% higher. I considered a Wrangler in 2021 - same model now is at least 25% higher and still has 1980 lighting technology. My next car will not likely be a Jeep - Unreliable car manufacturers (Ford, GM) have more exciting vehicles and Toyota / Honda have better reliability and solid offerings at the same price points.
Hey guys... quick comment from myself... I really enjoy your show by the way. The Renegade was a great stepping stone into higher-priced Jeep products. I am a Wrangler -Grand Cherokee guy, I have two of each in my life and use them the way they were intended. Us seasoned Jeep guys knew the Renegade was a little turd... BUT... like my five children have said..." we are just getting by and saving money for a four-door Wrangler for our family"! Keep a cheapy out there Carlos!! Geeez
This is simple economics. They mark up the models people want to stupid prices then wonder why no one buys them. There is no reason for a rubicon to cost $60k. There is no reason for a wrangler sport to cost $44k. They are using build techniques that are old and cheap. People want wranglers so they mark them up. If you want to sell them just mark them down. You don’t need max profit on each car if you’re selling 10x as many of them for much lower prices.
Hard disagree on Renegade. My father had a '22 for 1 year. It was decently roomy and the cabin wasn't too noisy, everything else was not impressive. The ultimate kick in the groin was that it got terrible fuel economy for what it was, and unlike the 2.4 Cherokee, the Renegade ran on *premium* fuel. Paying $0.80 more per gallon rendered that car a terrible choice. Fuelling up once a week, that alone was costing him an extra $40 a month. As far as an EV saving a company, that's a bit of a moonshot. Never say never, but even Hyundai who has been advertising their EV lineup heavily managed just 12k sales Q1 of this year, and they have 3 different models on offer. Considering Toyota is still selling absolutely every hybrid they can build, I guess I'm a little confused why everyone else is still going so hard on EVs. Seems like building a few hybrid models might be better at keeping the lights on.
The only thing that will save Jeep is for Carlos and the parent company to quit sabotaging them. Coercing/forcing dealers to take $80k vehicles into inventory when they already have a surplus of overly priced vehicles. It's mind-numbingly stupid.
When we bought our 2018 Renegade, I did look into the reliability issues and I noticed something it wasn't the vehicles fault it came down to people who tend not to maintain their vehicles which can and will cause reliability issues. Our 2.4l only burns about a 1/4 quart over 5000 intervals, We currently have over 50,000 miles and the only issue we have had is all self induced by a tire puncture from running over a ladder on the interstate,hitting a owl in the middle of the night which we had to replace the headlamp assembly, and most recently we had to replace the rear window on the hatch because I kicked up some debris while mowing our lawn, besides those issues all we have really done is basic maintenance, oil changes, replaced air filters cabin and engine every 20000 miles, and tires which I replaced not because they needed it but because I didn't like the factory Kumho tires they were noisy, set of Yokohama Avid Ascend GT noise issues are almost nonexistent. When Jeep showed the world the Avenger my wife and I were excited at the possibility of having a nice vehicle that she could use to commute to her work which is only 3 miles round trip or make a occasional jaunt into the town for groceries as we live approximately 25 miles away from the nearest city. We would keep the Renegade for the longer trips as it fits our needs perfectly and even only being FWD I have never once had a problem with inclement weather, It does amazingly well in snow, but back to the Avenger they should've brought it too the states along with the Renegades updated front end that the Brazilian Model received and gave it the 2.0l T and 8 speed That the newer Compass received.
The drivetrain was always the only reason I hated the Renegade. The size was perfect for all kinds of uses but an unreliable engine with an even worse transmission is a deal killer.
Ask me if I feel bad… 😂 They did this to themselves. I’ve said this before but merge Dodge and Ram, stop trying to make Jeep/Wagoner a luxury brand. Fiat can be killed in N America. Chrysler is the only one I’m not sure. I could see them making it a high end trim level but if they want to make it a separate brand they have to invest. Or Kill Maserati and Alfa and rebrand some of those models as Chryslers.
I feel like Chrysler really has to turn around to have a chance. They are incredibly unreliable. With that being said, the rental car companies love their bulk pricing, so maybe they’ll stick around
Build a Wrangler without 30k of electronics. I don't need $500 worth of nitrogen in my tires. No one on the Rubicon needs to be told that they are driving out of their lane.
The 1.3 turbo in the 2023 US model is a solid engine offering quick response and great performance. It is not the problem some "experts" claim it is. It puts out 178 HP and 210 lb-ft of torque from 80 cubic inches - impressive. It will do about 90% of what a wrangler can do in a small and nimble package. Discontinuing it in 24 was a mistake. Stellantis got greedy and priced it wrong in a blatant money grab, killing sales.
The 1.3T was fine in the Renegade the issue was is that STL refreshes some of their American line less than the Japanese do. When the 1.3T was introduced a decent refresh should have been done. The Renegade was left to die on the vine.
Remember, when the Renegade first came out in 2015, the big draw was, as Roman said then, "The MPG is going to start with a 3, and the price is going to start with a 1." THAT was the best thing. I think it was $18,995 for the base spec 2WD Sport. You could get into a compact, relatively efficient, relatively capable Jeep for $20K. But company decided that just wasn't expensive enough.
I own an 18 GC, and a 2020 Wrangler Sahara (wife’s car) I like them both, but I’m always on edge about a large repair bill. (I have mopar extended warranties on both)
I agree with what others have said. If Stellantis offered a stripped down, 2-door, basic Jeep Wrangler for $25,000, they would probably sell them faster than they could get them off the assembly line. But as long as people are willing to keep paying higher and higher prices for them, why wouldn't Jeep keep raising the prices?
I drive a 2017 Renegade Trailhawk that I bought new. 62K miles later, it's been reliable, economical and has better off road capability than you'd probably imagine, and I also have a Wrangler. Sure, the engine is a little buzzy, but it's a subcompact SUV, not a Challenger. Jeep made a mistake in pulling it off the US market. But then, Stellantis has been causing self-inflicted damage for several years now.
Jeep! Make the Penstar v6 Great again! They literally can stick that V6 in any version of the Jeep. May a NA, Turbo, And Twin Turbo for the various trims. They use the crap engines and people get turned away!.
Nope. The new avenger is a lot smaller than the hornet. Its smaller than the renegade too i believe. Its based on the same platform as the fiat 600, alfa romeo junior and some other small PSA models
When the Renegade Trailhawk was first announced, I was very excited! Then I drove one - my excitement disappeared! At the time I had 2 kids & a dog + stuff and it was just too small for all of us. However, it was the lack of power - I had to say 'No'. I bought a V-6 Dodge Durango instead (which I love)! I had high hopes for the 'baby Jeep' - it just wasn't going to work for us.
The issue is for that price of 25k pounds it equals 32k dollars. You're right, they need to make it more powerful and more cost effective. Great video.
I bought a used 17 Renegade Trailhawk and it's been great (2.4L Tigershark and 9-speed auto). It did need new tires when I got it so I put on 225/65/17 Wildpeak A/T Trails. It has become our go to vehicle for family road trips and has a bonus of being able to check out cool trails wherever we decide to go. Ours has the mysky roof panels so you can get a nice open air wheeling experience and they take 2 minutes to remove or put back. They should have kept the Renegade (even if only the Trailhawk) but the mysky roof should have been standard on every one. It makes it like a mini Wrangler but better on road and worse off road (but still capable!!). Colorado Mallcrawlers has a few videos with Trailhawks offroad and on Dirt Every Day they did Black Bear Pass in one.
Tommy, why didn’t you talk about the Avenger 4xe they released a few months ago that adds AWD and has the cool Trailhawk styling? They introduced the concept over a year ago and just introduced the production version overseas. I’m confused as to why you didn’t include any of that information here. I’ve been trolling all the Stellantis posts about bringing the Avenger here because it’s exactly what I would buy and feel is missing in the U.S., especially with the Recon probably going to be over $50K and the Wagoneer S Trailhawk well over $70K. This would be ideal and perfect timing for those of us who want a smaller, affordable off-road-oriented EV and are anxiously awaiting the Rivian R2 we have reserved!
The biggest problem Stellantis has is, with a few exceptions within some lines, a reputation for offering unreliable vehicles. They need to up their game if they want to stay in business.
I couldn’t imagine paying $60k-$100k for a Wrangler when it really should be around $30k at its highest or $40k for the off-road variants. Inflation and markups are ridiculous now and cars are just gonna gather dust.
Even if the Wrangler's weren't overpriced, Stellantis would still be seeing major headwinds with increased competition into the segment. Buyers now have more options with the Bronco and the cadre of offerings coming out from Toyota.
At the risk of showing my age, I remember when I joined the military 30 years ago there were a lot of E-1 through E-5s that drove Wranglers. Granted not all of them were new but you could get a used Wrangler in the earl 90's for a really good price and when you are a lower enlisted service member you are making VERY little money. However even the used Wrangler market is out of control. If I had to guess this new Jeep is in direct response to cheaper vehicles like the Trax and Trailblazer doing so well for Chevy.
This Jeep needs a Dodge and Chrysler sibling models. Make the Dodge Hornet off of this instead of the expensive Tonale. And make a small luxury Chrysler CUV out of this model too. Jeep is only rugged. Mass market performance variant should go to Dodge and luxury variant should be made for Chrysler.
Jeep Avenger in the EU in petrol version is FWD only and that is why Dacia is killing it over here. The Duster is unbeatable and with the new version Jeep just doesn't stand a chance for people who want to do some light off-roading. Jeep should just copy Dacia if they want to have any success or copy it and make it better by giving us low range on it. That would be killer.
Agree with many here: Jeep needs to drop the current featured wranglers to the $25k -$40k range (including the Rubicon!). Then add the EV option under $30k and sales will go back up. 4-low & lockers required on all of them. Stop blurring the models & replacing good models like the Cherokee with ev’s.
$25k fully electric Jeep? Yep. Stellantis really does want to defenestrate itself. Jeeps are supposed to be the vehicle you throw a bunch of gear into and go off on adventures in the back country. They aren't commuter golf carts and nobody would trust taking a $25k electric Stellantis product out into the hinterlands. Whatever Stellantis is brewing, it ain't gonna sell.
Well it actually works in Europe. That's why Avenger sells well here, people don't thingk about Jeep as some working man car, it's a status symbol. You wanna look like you like going to outdoors, that's all
Everything on an ICE vehicle runs on electricity. Without electricity, ICE vehicles are a brick. It takes electricity to refine oil into gasoline. It takes electricity to run car factories, dealerships and gas stations and to pump and pay for fuel.
TFL never really understood the Renegade Trailhawk and I don't think their current ownership of one is going to change things all that much on that score. Until TFL bought one, every time they had Renegade Trailhawk (RTH) content, they had to b**** about the "lack of proper low range gearing they alleged the vehicle to have. That allegation isn't true. A '73 Bronco with 302 V8, C-4 automatic transmission, and 3.50:1 ring and pinion gears on 30" to 31" tires can handle the majority of open, legal routes on BLM and Forest Service land. I know, because I had one. It had a mechanical gear reduction in low range and first gear of 20.4974:1. That is augmented by the 2:1 torque multiplication of the torque converter for an effective potential torque multiplication of 40.9948:1 Now, most of the time, in running trails, I'd be running in law range of 2.42:1, but not in 1st gear. I spent more time in the 1.48:1 second gear, where my mechanical gear reduction was 12.5356:1 but the effective torque multiplication potential was down to 25.0712:1 When I still had my Bronco, two of my uncles when back to flat-fender Jeeps, buying WWII relics. I enjoyed running trails on them in spite of often trying to grab a lower gear that wasn't there. The MB and GPW have 25:1 torque multiplication in compound low. That's why they felt like running my Bronco in low range and second gear. The ZF 9 HP transmission in my RTH is geared thus: R 3.805:1 1st: 4.7 2nd: 2,842:1 3rd: 1.909:1 4th: 1.382:1 5th: 1:1 6th 0.808:1 7th: 0.699:1 8th: 0.58:1 9th: 0.48:1 The total span of ratios is 9.808:1 and the average ratio step is 1.330:1 Let's see if TFL's constant claim that the RTH isn't geared low enough for off-pavement use has any foundation in fact: 4.33:1 Final Drive Ratio X 4.7:1 First Gear = 20.351:1 mechanical redution x 2:1 torque multiplication potential from Torque Converter = effective torque multiplication of 40.702:1 in first gear. 4.33:1 FDR X 2.842:1 Second Gear = 12.30586:1 X 2:1 Torque Converter multiplication = 24.61172:1 My RTH in first and second gear is close enough to my Bronco in first and second gear and low range so that if I would be in second gear and low range in my Bronco, I'll be in second gear in my RTH and if I'd be in first in the Bronco, I'll be in first in the RTH. TFL used to say that the RTH wasn't geared low enough for off-pavement use because it didn't have a true low range. Math, which doesn't like, says they were wrong. And TFL is still spreading fiction in this video. Young master Mica seems to have the idea that the ZF 9 HP ia a fragile thing. TFL doesn't mention that the unit has a torque input rating in excess of 350 ft/pounds and they never mention that Honda, Nissan, and Land Rover have used the same transmission in their vehicles. Jeep customers certainly did complain about the transmission shifting too slow, too fast, and hunting for gears. They're really complaining about a software problem and not the hardware. The samme transmission was used in Aura models and some of their owners had the same complaints Jeep cusomers did, for the same kind of reasons related to algorithms and not the hardware. TFL says "if you want to go off road, get a Wrangler." Been there, done that, in a TJ.. I don't miss it. At all. Young Mica complains about the buzzy 2.4 Tigershark but it's a smooth-running thing compared to a pushrod OHV Jeep 2.5. My RTH will get to 60 from a stop in 9 seconds or less. My TJ took about 15. My Bronco took 12.5. Right off the showroom floor, my RTH did Slaughterhouse Gulch without much fuss or drama. I picked that trail as the maiden voyage because it's about as tough as any I run in Arizona and New Mexico where I do most of my trail running nowadays. I think the RTH was pretty close to being the perfect tool for people like me who run trails as a means to an end. I run trails that go someplace I want to go in order to do something besides getting my kidneys bounced on a trail. I wanted something that could get up to 30 mpg on the long highway slogs I have to drive in order to get to the trails that take me where I want to go and be capable of handling the majority of trails in stock form with no mods beyond swapping tires. A Renegade Trailhawk might suck at rock crawling, but as what you younger people call an "overlander," I think the thing is pretty fantastic. The only thing stopping it from being perfect are algorithms that conspite to cut engine output under specific circumtances in order to keep me from breaking the drivetrain. Eruo spec versions owned by Italian friends in Italy don't seem to have that problem.
I commute 124 miles round-trip per day. If there was the option of an electric AWD Jeep that was rated for 300 miles per day for $28,000, I would order one right away and just charge it at home every night. I would keep the old Ford F-150 for towing and hauling though.
Just saw the Avenger on the road in Italy. Great looking vehicle, but a little small for the states. It reminded me of a lifted hatchback compared to the slightly larger Renegade
Jeep already builds a $25,000 Jeep, its called the Wrangler. Look, when you continue to use the same parts, same engineering, year after year those costs go down. The Wrangler with a simple gas engine should be available for sale at $25,000. The suspension is the same, the axles are the same, the body panels are the same, and you don't need to incorporate loads of technology. Basic seating surfaces and a soft top that only costs them $500 to make. Mismanagement is the reason the Wrangler costs $70K.
Seriously, if I could get a new 2 door Wrangler for $25,000 I would buy one in a heart beat. I would prefer that over a $25,000 compact crossover.
In Australia, Jeep sells Wranglers with a starting price above $90,000. I haven't seen a new Wrangler on the road in years. New Mercedes and BMW SUVs are cheaper.
I need a weenie warmer
I have a 2021 wrangler. I couldn't afford a 2024. The prices in Germany exploded
I own a 98 sport 5 speed bought for 19k brand new.
Would not change it for the world, in fact I plan to beef it up. I drive it every day and love it1
The wrangler should be the $25k Jeep that saves the day.
They cost more than that to build. Would drive them into bankruptcy in months!! 😂😂😂
Wranglers are hilariously overpriced. They should be in the 30k range not 40k+ starting. Joke of a company
Not even close. The dana 44 axless in a rubicon are massive with lockers front and rear that cost like 14 grand alone... thats just the axles. Most people want 35 inch tires now a days...so $300 or more per tire. Add in a transfer case, electronic sway bar disconnects ect...most vehichles these days are unibody suvs with no real transfer case or 4x4 system and weak independent suspension. If you want a body on frame true 4x4 with skid plates and the beefy axles and drive shafts, steel bumpers that are winch capable, lockers, high clearlence fenders, off road pages, off road cameras, and an engine and transmission with enough torque and gearing to move a vehichle like that...they dont cost 30 or 40 grand. Its not just the wrangler. The bronco, the coloado zr2, the tacoma, all these vehichles are in the same price range. What universe are people living in that they think this shit would cost 30 grand??? LMFAO
Live axle, body on frame, Fiat I4 engine tech from the 1930s for 100k .
Yeah make a basement budget 2 door manual wrangler. AC being the only option. Call it the American Value Package. Remember the Grand Caravan AVP. Stock it on the lot and it’ll sell.
What will help Jeep is putting out a quality product at an affordable price.
💯 agree
They aren't doing that at a high price.
Chrysler products have never been know for quality.
@@benchmark3332 still true
The concept of throwing sh!t on the wall hasn't worked for Stelantis in the US. Over-pricing Wranglers and Grand Cherokees to make up the difference is no longer working in their favor, they need a solid base to bring buyers in.
Problem is if they put out something new for $25k and there's any sort of demand, dealerships will jack the price up so it's no longer a value to most.
This is an underrated comment
Axed the beloved Hemi, Challenger, Charger, and TRX. Raised prices on everything. Didn't release a new Dakota or mini trucklette to fight the Maverick. Didn't put the 392 or Hurricane engine in the Gladiator but DID take away its diesel option. Let the Bronco beat the Wrangler on value. Spent MILLIONS on developing/promoting the RAM REV Concept only to have 90% of its features axed on the production model. Amazingly these things didn't improve sales 🤔
Seems like they killed all of their success/potential for success. I can’t think of any company cancelling a product that is relatively successful (TRX) and then turn around and wonder why they are having financial problems. On top of this, the lack of Maverick competitor from both Ram and GM is baffling to me given how successful Ford has made it. And I think your comment about the Bronco is one of the most significant issues. They saw the bronco come out with the newest off roading technology coupled with a well built interior and then tried to sell wranglers as similarly high end vehicles while having the same infotainment and interior quality of a crappy Chrysler minivan, all while decreasing the quality of the actual vehicle components. Then they come out with the stuff discussed in the video, which is all glorified fiat rebadges
Stellantis is in trouble, not just Jeep. They have 14 different brands.....too many to maintain.
Stellantis MSRP's in the US are running $10K higher than the industry average. My prediction is that Jeep and Ram will end up with new owners after Stellantis fails. Tavares is just not cutting it.
Jeeps are to expensive and that's why the Jeep is having issues
I purchased both kids Renegade Trailhawks for $24k out the door. Jeep already had a $25,000 vehicle...but those Stellantis idiots got greedy and did this to themselves. (For the haters...the Renegades are 4 & 5 years old without a single issue.) I still contend that the Renegade & Cherokee should have stayed and the Compass should have been axed.
2019 trailhawk for my son no issues and even was able to use it to recover my wrangler after a misadventure in snow. Getting rid of them or changing them in this way will be a huge mistake.
Ours is a 2018 FWD Latitude and not a single issue in 50,000 miles and 6 years of ownership. We paid just under $18k for ours
Never driven a Renegade but the Compass is barely tolerable even as a rental.
Without the Cherokee there is a huge gap in the Jeep product offering. Of course that market segment is also very competitive. Jeep’s fault if they could not make money with the Cherokee. Jeep’s fault if discontinuing the Renegade and Cherokee hurts their business.
@@maxschwartz2419 The Cherokee is about to be replaced with a ICE Version of the Wagoneer S !! Compass is slated to be a all new model as well. Then the Recon is coming shortly as well Jeep should have some newer iron shortly.
They should have kept the Renegade and worked on powertrain performance, efficiency and quality.
I seriously doubt this will help Jeep in any way.
Too many years making trash vehicles for quality vehicles prices. Most people have learn and move on to another brands. They only want to sell vehicle to rich people but rich people buys real rich people vehicles.
Race to the bottom is never a recipe for profitability.
Maybe - if it has decent quality, dealers don’t overprice it and kill customer sentiment, have reasonable production numbers, and provide packages people actually want vs. stuffing Stickers and putting only the most profitable top models on the dealer lots …… so realistically no chance
It could if it ends up not being hot garbage but given they have be proven to push garbage at any price point that’s not likely to happen.
@@paull3373 If pigs could fly bacon might be healthy.
What they are trying to charge for a Jeep is completely insane..haven’t seen any discounts in the north
All new car makers are convincing me that I really don't need--or want--a new car. I far prefer my used ones!
Cars seem to be like refrigerators right now- if your old one works just fine think twice about replacing it.
Dealerships don't see a 25,000 jeep. A base model Wrangler should be around 25-27 max. The pentastar is long in the tooth. The prices for lower trims don't really equate to anything breathtaking in terms of improvement. It shouldn't it's a base model Wrangler that has got away from it's core buyer.
They would crush it with a $25k Wrangler Sport. Manual trans, windows & locks...but it'd need to have AC which still isn't a basic included feature.
Every wrangler I've seen, the consumer seems to add another 5-10k with aftermarket parts. When you get it from the dealership, you're paying almost the equivalent of what you put in yourself.
@@luchaDor I have a 2012 wrangler sport JK 4 door, that has basic locks, actual key, auto transmission, AC. It cost me $22k military discounts in November of 2012.
Don’t they already have such compact SUV like Compass and Renegade??? Which they jack up the price way above 30k which no one buy? 😅
They pulled the Renegade from North America in 2023. Which makes no sense b/c it was Jeep's competitor to the Crosstrek.
As others have said, they need a cheap base Wrangler. Not this thing...
Those aren't Jeeps they are a rebadged Fiat
IMHO Jeep died when Stellantis took over. The Jeep name was synonymous with something tough that will climb a mountain like a goat. They got you where you wanted to go. Yeah you might have to work on it every now and then, but parts were cheap enough so you didn't mind so much. They took the Renegade name and stuck it on a little soyboy grocery getter. Stellantis knows nothing about American culture.
Their momma calls em jeeps.
It’s worse. It’s a rebadged Peugeot e2008
Exactly
@@fishtwo1 I was thinking of selling my TJ Rubicon because I seldom off-road anymore and it only gets driven 1500 miles per year, but maybe I should hand onto it.
“Let’s build another crossover!” “Brilliant!” - Some dumbasses in a board room
Because companies make money hand over fist with SUVs. A "dumbass" would be the guy who says "hey let's make a new sedan". All Americans want are SUVs and trucks.
I think you meant "let's build a car for the most competitive segment in the country".
The mecan is Porsches best selling model ever, it keeps their lights on AND gives them more money to blow on low production gt3rs's.
Toyota sells carollas and Rav 4s faster than they can make them. That gave them money to make silly loss leaders like the gr Corolla and 86.
Stilantes haven't made a half decent regular car for regular people since the 80s k cars. Maybe someone could argue since the Neon, but that still paled compared to the civic or carolla. They love making nonsense like the 17 flavors of demons, 392 wranglers, and TRXs. But they don't have anything to compete for the general public's attention.
I drove a 4x4 Fiat Panda in Italy. It was buzzy, small, manual windows, 6 speed manual transmission, and frankly a lot of fun to drive. It had a smaller turning radius than my wife’s Prius, and soaked up cobblestone roads like they were glass smooth. But that kind of thing won’t sell anywhere outside of Quebec in North America.
You highlighted one of the underlying problems and may not even realize it. The dealership pricing model is just gross and vague at best. They are filled with salespersons who are trained more on sales tactics than the actual vehicle they're selling. One reason I prefer Tesla and Rivian is the transparent buying process. The traditional dealership model is a hot mess. I feel anxious, on guard, and defensive everytime I walk into a dealership. Doesn't matter the brand.
If you’re looking at a salesperson to be educated on a product that is the first problem.
The only way to turn them around is quality control. Their parts are junk and they know it.
like i said before i love my 2023 trailhawk renegade,i did put the 1.3 turbo through hell a few days ago.i went from home in nv to slc utah, round trip 430 miles,outside temp 101 degrees going back and forth across salt flats at sustained speed of 80mph.engine rpms were 2600 at 80mph stll had pretty good power left,average mpg 27.4 so im happy with that and the fact it didnt blow up.i did have the breakin oil changed the next day 3270 miles,it was 1/2 qt low,mechanic said was to be expected with the temps we are having,but i think for longitivity i will be changing oil every 3=3500 miles which for me is twice a year.all in all very happy with stubby
I have a 2004 Jeep Liberty I bought $1,000. It was my mother's Jeep. She could not drive anymore. She and sis took piss poor care, and I needed to put in $2k of work in it to bring it up to speed. It has a very powerful 3.7l V-6 with only 149,000 miles. Still runs great. Very powerful engine, I can drive 80 mph all day, but don't. I generally like to go no faster than 70mph on California freeways. Why would I consider getting a toy Jeep with a 1.2l or 1.3l engine?????? If I have to buy a new car, it will be Honda or Toyota. Not Chrysler. They were good at one time but not now.
They can't build a reliable $100k Jeep and they think they can build a $25k one?
Jeep is slowly becoming an unrecognizable brand to me. I look at the Wagoneer and Wagoneer S and i ask where the "Jeep" is. To me Jeep has always been Rugged Utility, not posh American Luxery.
Keep Jeep starting prices below 50,000. Keep them as simple as possible with utalitarian styling. Swap the grill of the Wagoneer and Wagoneer S and rebadge them as Chrysler products. Make Chrysler the American Luxery brand and Jeep as the affordable rugged SUV brand. If they want, they can make a new Wagoneer based on the current one, but stripped down with function in mind, rugged plastics instead of posh soft touch materials, make sure the cargo area is designed to be used for messes. Obviously moving upmarket with Jeep, in particular the Wrangler, has worked out poorly with that cliff of a sales drop off.
There Stellantis, I fixed your self inflicted issues and revived your minivan life support brand as well.
👍
You guys just tested that electric UTV with 100 miles of range that cost $37,000...i doubt dodge can build an EV and sell it for 25k.
Ditch the luxury crap and all the tech and go back to the basics, the jeep we used to know and love.
The Compass was supposed to be a cheap vehicle, then it sold more than expected and price went up. Make a Compass with a V6 and a transfer case for 25K and they wouldn't be able to make enough.
The wrangler no A/C, no radio, no safety features, just a plain Jane 4x4 should be 25,000. 27,000 with AC
Remember these Jeeps are badge engineered so Hybrids and electric power is already availabl;e across the stellantis brands. Peugeot 2008 and 3008 are the donor vehicles for Jeep... Opel... Vauxhall and Citroen.
14 car brands that are wonderfully reliable for downhill travel.
Well 50g for a basic jeep is going to be its downfall.
Learning a lesson from the success of the maverick and making an affordable jeep again is a great idea.
Give us a de-contented Wrangler at a low price. No screens, roll up windows, manual transmissions
If they made something like the old Suzuki samurai with body on frame with a small 4. Cylinder and 6 speed manual as well offer 5-speed auto transmission they would sell !!! just offer 2 models but keep it simple no extreme bells and whistles .. just Air conditioning Am FM stereo, simple cloth seats no electric crap and manual windows but of course they would have to keep safety airbags and such but I think something like it would sell!!!
Has to have some level of tech by law at this point. Backup cameras are mandatory, so you have to have a screen; In addition to the screen, it's cheaper to just use the parts-bin uConnect system from all other Stellantis products, which gives you bluetooth and android auto/apple carplay. Beginning in 2026 all vehicles will have to have Automatic Emergency Braking as standard (iirc), so you'll have to have a front camera or radar system.
So no electric crap?
No starter motor, alternator, spark plugs, plug packs or distributor? No 12 volt starter battery?
No windshield wipers or heat and A/C fan or electric switches? No horn? No headlights, interior lights or tail lights? No fuel injection which has been around since the 1960's, and back to a carburetor?
No radio or speakers? No ABS? No trailer hitch wiring or brake controllers?
No more computers? No electric sensors or pollution controls?
Sure, that'll work.😂
Uhh that's a jimny..very basic. But good an not sold in USA.
Interest rates are up. Jeep prices are in the stratosphere. People simply can’t afford the asking price anymore!
If this ever makes it into production, just remember, it's under the mismanagement of Stellantis. It will be a low quality POS that will sell for $40-60K. And there WILL be recalls on it year after year. Stellantis doesn't know WTF it's doing.
Definitely need to get out a compact pickup truck
Have you seen what happened to the Ford Maverick? It was "supposed to turn Ford around." Instead, the stealerships have priced them so high that customers are walking out. And they are crap quality. I've seen a few in my city on stealership lots marked up a whopping $4-5K and they don't even have leather seats, CD players or aluminum wheels. $24K?! Really, Ford?! I've seen barely 10 Mavericks on the roads of my city this year. That's all I need to know. A compact pickup won't mean anything if nobody can afford it.
All jeep has to do is make a usdm suzuki jimny copy the formula to a tee and I’d seriously consider getting one
Reliability is Jeeps problem.
What they should do is just make it a PHEV-only option, but do it like the new Ram Charger (just scaled way down). That solves every issue. Even if they have to price it higher, it would qualify for EV incentives, so that wouldn't even matter. It would have tons of power, because we know pound-for-pound motors have more torque than engines. They could keep margins higher by focusing on economies of scale by limiting the power-train options to just one. It would get plenty of range do the gas generator. It would be a killer off-roader with a dual-motor setup. And it would help them flesh out this technology more, which no one else is doing.
The wrangler used to be affordable. Now it’s crazy expensive but the parts are basically still the same with a cheap interior so idk what they’re thinking lol
8:00 gotcha everybody halfway through the video 😂
Wonder if they could do a hybrid with the "Toyota AWD" style axle motor that works off the batteries. Not a real AWD but good enough to use domestically like an axle lock option to get people out of a tight spot in say winter.
Stellantis is running all the American brands into the ground
If they quit trying to compete with G wagons, they’d probably sell trucks! Jeeps are not luxury cars, they’re middle class toys
I currently have 2 Jeep Renegades: a 2021 Trailhawk for my wife and a 2022 (I think its an unlimited) for my son. I LOVE the 1.3L turbo engine (so far.) Its got plenty of power for this vehicle and it gets roughly 30 MPG going 70 miles an hour down the freeways (on a 45-ish mph road going straight it creeps up near 40mpg.) There is plenty of room inside (I am a pretty big guy) and its easy to get into and out of (as I get older, this becomes a BIG DEAL.)
Overall, I like them, but do have some worries and some dislikes. First is the assembly quality on my wife's car. It had issues the very day we took it home that the dealer blamed on loose cable connectors (he mumbled something about "that little computer on wheels.") We also have continuing issues with the panoramic sunroof (I think its been in the shop at least 3 times and maybe 4 for issues and it was delayed getting shipped to us from the factory/body shop after we ordered it for weeks.) So far, the 2022 has had no QC issues. Next is the CRAZY BAD decision on where to put the fuse for the power adapter/lighter socket (it might make an interesting show to have you guys try to replace this fuse...it is REALLY hard to reach.) Lastly is the big question: "Will this tiny turbo engine be reliable long-term?" Both vehicles have low mileage (46K for the 2021 and 26K for the 2022), so time will tell. I hope they do, but got the extended warranty on one and will get it for the other too, just to be safe. I also am VERY careful about oil change intervals and feed them only high octane gasoline.
Tavares needs to start paying more attention to the American brands if he wants to see positive results, can't get more profits if he is not investing in new models for Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge and RAM
Pretty simple. Make a FWD 2.0T Wrangler, with All season tires, none of the offroad stuff. Either uni-body or body on frame (depending on engineering for having a soft top).
Keep it below $30k for the person who never goes off road but would love to be able to drop the top and get the ‘Jeep Vibe’. Good stereo, god headlights, make it your city/beach/suburban Jeep that doesnt cost what the Sahara costs. 😎😎😎😎
Jeep is in a tough spot bc interest rates suck and they haven’t dropped their pricing. Stellantis is possibly the worst ownership company in history.
The issue is not the Renegade. The problem is Stellantis pricing across the board. Idk why you are making the whole argument about the Renegade.
Pricing and reputation. I don't know what the truth really is, but it's conventional wisdom that Stellantis vehicles are significantly lower in quality and longevity than others in their segments.
The Wrangler had no real competition for a long time, but that falls apart with the Bronco and the Wrangler luxury pricing.
In theory, you can get a basic soft top Wrangler for 32 grand. It's not like they CAN'T offer real Jeep features at a price under $75k.
A few points to consider - in the past 8 years, I’ve purchased two Jeep models often described as junk. Patriot (4cyl, 6 sp auto) and the Cherokee (4 cylinder, 9 sp). They’ve been decent every day cars that I purchased with specific trim options. The Cherokee is underpowered, but now at 96K miles, it has been reliable so far. The key was the pricing, both purchased as good discounts and well under $25K. The only comparable current model is the Compass - which is smaller and more costly. The last version of the Cherokee on sale was bloated with options that cause the reliability problems and priced 40 - 50% higher. I considered a Wrangler in 2021 - same model now is at least 25% higher and still has 1980 lighting technology.
My next car will not likely be a Jeep - Unreliable car manufacturers (Ford, GM) have more exciting vehicles and Toyota / Honda have better reliability and solid offerings at the same price points.
I drove a Renegade as a rental and I loved it. Yes it was the power train that kept me away from buying one.
Hey guys... quick comment from myself... I really enjoy your show by the way. The Renegade was a great stepping stone into higher-priced Jeep products. I am a Wrangler -Grand Cherokee guy, I have two of each in my life and use them the way they were intended. Us seasoned Jeep guys knew the Renegade was a little turd... BUT... like my five children have said..." we are just getting by and saving money for a four-door Wrangler for our family"! Keep a cheapy out there Carlos!! Geeez
This is simple economics. They mark up the models people want to stupid prices then wonder why no one buys them. There is no reason for a rubicon to cost $60k. There is no reason for a wrangler sport to cost $44k. They are using build techniques that are old and cheap. People want wranglers so they mark them up. If you want to sell them just mark them down. You don’t need max profit on each car if you’re selling 10x as many of them for much lower prices.
A $25,000 Jeep Avenger gasoline or e-hybrid? That would be fantastic! Even if low horsepower and front wheel drive. Absolutely fantastic!
I agree on the Renegade but every time I priced one they were eye wateringly expensive, that's what killed it.
Hard disagree on Renegade. My father had a '22 for 1 year. It was decently roomy and the cabin wasn't too noisy, everything else was not impressive.
The ultimate kick in the groin was that it got terrible fuel economy for what it was, and unlike the 2.4 Cherokee, the Renegade ran on *premium* fuel. Paying $0.80 more per gallon rendered that car a terrible choice. Fuelling up once a week, that alone was costing him an extra $40 a month.
As far as an EV saving a company, that's a bit of a moonshot. Never say never, but even Hyundai who has been advertising their EV lineup heavily managed just 12k sales Q1 of this year, and they have 3 different models on offer.
Considering Toyota is still selling absolutely every hybrid they can build, I guess I'm a little confused why everyone else is still going so hard on EVs. Seems like building a few hybrid models might be better at keeping the lights on.
The only thing that will save Jeep is for Carlos and the parent company to quit sabotaging them. Coercing/forcing dealers to take $80k vehicles into inventory when they already have a surplus of overly priced vehicles. It's mind-numbingly stupid.
When we bought our 2018 Renegade, I did look into the reliability issues and I noticed something it wasn't the vehicles fault it came down to people who tend not to maintain their vehicles which can and will cause reliability issues. Our 2.4l only burns about a 1/4 quart over 5000 intervals, We currently have over 50,000 miles and the only issue we have had is all self induced by a tire puncture from running over a ladder on the interstate,hitting a owl in the middle of the night which we had to replace the headlamp assembly, and most recently we had to replace the rear window on the hatch because I kicked up some debris while mowing our lawn, besides those issues all we have really done is basic maintenance, oil changes, replaced air filters cabin and engine every 20000 miles, and tires which I replaced not because they needed it but because I didn't like the factory Kumho tires they were noisy, set of Yokohama Avid Ascend GT noise issues are almost nonexistent. When Jeep showed the world the Avenger my wife and I were excited at the possibility of having a nice vehicle that she could use to commute to her work which is only 3 miles round trip or make a occasional jaunt into the town for groceries as we live approximately 25 miles away from the nearest city. We would keep the Renegade for the longer trips as it fits our needs perfectly and even only being FWD I have never once had a problem with inclement weather, It does amazingly well in snow, but back to the Avenger they should've brought it too the states along with the Renegades updated front end that the Brazilian Model received and gave it the 2.0l T and 8 speed That the newer Compass received.
The drivetrain was always the only reason I hated the Renegade. The size was perfect for all kinds of uses but an unreliable engine with an even worse transmission is a deal killer.
Stellantis is the reason that chrysler products have been in a decline for years they don't make quality and reliability a priority
Ask me if I feel bad… 😂
They did this to themselves. I’ve said this before but merge Dodge and Ram, stop trying to make Jeep/Wagoner a luxury brand. Fiat can be killed in N America. Chrysler is the only one I’m not sure. I could see them making it a high end trim level but if they want to make it a separate brand they have to invest. Or Kill Maserati and Alfa and rebrand some of those models as Chryslers.
I feel like Chrysler really has to turn around to have a chance. They are incredibly unreliable. With that being said, the rental car companies love their bulk pricing, so maybe they’ll stick around
Build a Wrangler without 30k of electronics. I don't need $500 worth of nitrogen in my tires. No one on the Rubicon needs to be told that they are driving out of their lane.
The 1.3 turbo in the 2023 US model is a solid engine offering quick response and great performance. It is not the problem some "experts" claim it is. It puts out 178 HP and 210 lb-ft of torque from 80 cubic inches - impressive. It will do about 90% of what a wrangler can do in a small and nimble package. Discontinuing it in 24 was a mistake. Stellantis got greedy and priced it wrong in a blatant money grab, killing sales.
No way Jeep can made a cheap version without falling apart in two years
The 1.3T was fine in the Renegade the issue was is that STL refreshes some of their American line less than the Japanese do. When the 1.3T was introduced a decent refresh should have been done. The Renegade was left to die on the vine.
Remember, when the Renegade first came out in 2015, the big draw was, as Roman said then, "The MPG is going to start with a 3, and the price is going to start with a 1." THAT was the best thing. I think it was $18,995 for the base spec 2WD Sport. You could get into a compact, relatively efficient, relatively capable Jeep for $20K. But company decided that just wasn't expensive enough.
The problem is Jeep hasn't been in the ditch for years. Jeep was moved to a luxury brand abandoning its affordable off-road market
Had a 2020 Wrangler, now have a 2023 Gladiator. Love them both, they are both very fun to drive. I'm all for cheaper Jeeps to keep the brand going.
Jeep isn’t going away anytime soon. The brand would unquestionably be sold rather than discontinued. A different owner might not be a bad thing…
I own an 18 GC, and a 2020 Wrangler Sahara (wife’s car) I like them both, but I’m always on edge about a large repair bill. (I have mopar extended warranties on both)
The Europeans have never, and will never, understand Jeeps or the American consumer.
Crazy thing the Renegade Trailhawk had stock more off roading protection than the new $70k Toyota LandCruiser.
I agree with what others have said. If Stellantis offered a stripped down, 2-door, basic Jeep Wrangler for $25,000, they would probably sell them faster than they could get them off the assembly line. But as long as people are willing to keep paying higher and higher prices for them, why wouldn't Jeep keep raising the prices?
The Renegade was fine, but you’ve got to update things more than once a decade.
I drive a 2017 Renegade Trailhawk that I bought new. 62K miles later, it's been reliable, economical and has better off road capability than you'd probably imagine, and I also have a Wrangler. Sure, the engine is a little buzzy, but it's a subcompact SUV, not a Challenger. Jeep made a mistake in pulling it off the US market. But then, Stellantis has been causing self-inflicted damage for several years now.
Jeep! Make the Penstar v6 Great again! They literally can stick that V6 in any version of the Jeep. May a NA, Turbo, And Twin Turbo for the various trims. They use the crap engines and people get turned away!.
The world needs some 10k reliable vehicles. Toyota, looking at you...
I have a feeling its just gonna be a rebadged hornet
Nope. The new avenger is a lot smaller than the hornet. Its smaller than the renegade too i believe. Its based on the same platform as the fiat 600, alfa romeo junior and some other small PSA models
@@joshkiej6601 oh yeah i forgot that existed in Europe. Welp thats bummer. I was hoping for a cheaper mini wrangler model
When the Renegade Trailhawk was first announced, I was very excited! Then I drove one - my excitement disappeared! At the time I had 2 kids & a dog + stuff and it was just too small for all of us. However, it was the lack of power - I had to say 'No'. I bought a V-6 Dodge Durango instead (which I love)!
I had high hopes for the 'baby Jeep' - it just wasn't going to work for us.
The avenger is brilliant. They're everywhere in Europe and they are really great looking.
The issue is for that price of 25k pounds it equals 32k dollars. You're right, they need to make it more powerful and more cost effective. Great video.
I bought a used 17 Renegade Trailhawk and it's been great (2.4L Tigershark and 9-speed auto). It did need new tires when I got it so I put on 225/65/17 Wildpeak A/T Trails. It has become our go to vehicle for family road trips and has a bonus of being able to check out cool trails wherever we decide to go. Ours has the mysky roof panels so you can get a nice open air wheeling experience and they take 2 minutes to remove or put back. They should have kept the Renegade (even if only the Trailhawk) but the mysky roof should have been standard on every one. It makes it like a mini Wrangler but better on road and worse off road (but still capable!!). Colorado Mallcrawlers has a few videos with Trailhawks offroad and on Dirt Every Day they did Black Bear Pass in one.
Tommy, why didn’t you talk about the Avenger 4xe they released a few months ago that adds AWD and has the cool Trailhawk styling? They introduced the concept over a year ago and just introduced the production version overseas. I’m confused as to why you didn’t include any of that information here. I’ve been trolling all the Stellantis posts about bringing the Avenger here because it’s exactly what I would buy and feel is missing in the U.S., especially with the Recon probably going to be over $50K and the Wagoneer S Trailhawk well over $70K. This would be ideal and perfect timing for those of us who want a smaller, affordable off-road-oriented EV and are anxiously awaiting the Rivian R2 we have reserved!
The biggest problem Stellantis has is, with a few exceptions within some lines, a reputation for offering unreliable vehicles. They need to up their game if they want to stay in business.
An affordable truck that is actually affordable would be a real game changer
I was just in Italy and saw a few of these on the road and they honestly looked great.
I couldn’t imagine paying $60k-$100k for a Wrangler when it really should be around $30k at its highest or $40k for the off-road variants. Inflation and markups are ridiculous now and cars are just gonna gather dust.
$35k is the new $25,000. Anything that affordable is going to be a Subaru Justy.
In my day Jeep's were not everyday drivers, family cars. They were recreational niche vehicles. No one ever thought of a CJ with 30k of electronics.
Even if the Wrangler's weren't overpriced, Stellantis would still be seeing major headwinds with increased competition into the segment. Buyers now have more options with the Bronco and the cadre of offerings coming out from Toyota.
At the risk of showing my age, I remember when I joined the military 30 years ago there were a lot of E-1 through E-5s that drove Wranglers. Granted not all of them were new but you could get a used Wrangler in the earl 90's for a really good price and when you are a lower enlisted service member you are making VERY little money. However even the used Wrangler market is out of control. If I had to guess this new Jeep is in direct response to cheaper vehicles like the Trax and Trailblazer doing so well for Chevy.
This Jeep needs a Dodge and Chrysler sibling models. Make the Dodge Hornet off of this instead of the expensive Tonale. And make a small luxury Chrysler CUV out of this model too. Jeep is only rugged. Mass market performance variant should go to Dodge and luxury variant should be made for Chrysler.
Jeep Avenger in the EU in petrol version is FWD only and that is why Dacia is killing it over here. The Duster is unbeatable and with the new version Jeep just doesn't stand a chance for people who want to do some light off-roading. Jeep should just copy Dacia if they want to have any success or copy it and make it better by giving us low range on it. That would be killer.
Agree with many here: Jeep needs to drop the current featured wranglers to the $25k -$40k range (including the Rubicon!). Then add the EV option under $30k and sales will go back up. 4-low & lockers required on all of them. Stop blurring the models & replacing good models like the Cherokee with ev’s.
$25k fully electric Jeep? Yep. Stellantis really does want to defenestrate itself. Jeeps are supposed to be the vehicle you throw a bunch of gear into and go off on adventures in the back country. They aren't commuter golf carts and nobody would trust taking a $25k electric Stellantis product out into the hinterlands. Whatever Stellantis is brewing, it ain't gonna sell.
Well it actually works in Europe. That's why Avenger sells well here, people don't thingk about Jeep as some working man car, it's a status symbol. You wanna look like you like going to outdoors, that's all
Everything on an ICE vehicle runs on electricity.
Without electricity, ICE vehicles are a brick.
It takes electricity to refine oil into gasoline.
It takes electricity to run car factories, dealerships and gas stations and to pump and pay for fuel.
TFL never really understood the Renegade Trailhawk and I don't think their current ownership of one is going to change things all that much on that score.
Until TFL bought one, every time they had Renegade Trailhawk (RTH) content, they had to b**** about the "lack of proper low range gearing they alleged the vehicle to have. That allegation isn't true.
A '73 Bronco with 302 V8, C-4 automatic transmission, and 3.50:1 ring and pinion gears on 30" to 31" tires can handle the majority of open, legal routes on BLM and Forest Service land. I know, because I had one.
It had a mechanical gear reduction in low range and first gear of 20.4974:1. That is augmented by the 2:1 torque multiplication of the torque converter for an effective potential torque multiplication of 40.9948:1 Now, most of the time, in running trails, I'd be running in law range of 2.42:1, but not in 1st gear. I spent more time in the 1.48:1 second gear, where my mechanical gear reduction was 12.5356:1 but the effective torque multiplication potential was down to 25.0712:1
When I still had my Bronco, two of my uncles when back to flat-fender Jeeps, buying WWII relics. I enjoyed running trails on them in spite of often trying to grab a lower gear that wasn't there. The MB and GPW have 25:1 torque multiplication in compound low. That's why they felt like running my Bronco in low range and second gear.
The ZF 9 HP transmission in my RTH is geared thus:
R 3.805:1
1st: 4.7
2nd: 2,842:1
3rd: 1.909:1
4th: 1.382:1
5th: 1:1
6th 0.808:1
7th: 0.699:1
8th: 0.58:1
9th: 0.48:1
The total span of ratios is 9.808:1 and the average ratio step is 1.330:1
Let's see if TFL's constant claim that the RTH isn't geared low enough for off-pavement use has any foundation in fact:
4.33:1 Final Drive Ratio X 4.7:1 First Gear = 20.351:1 mechanical redution x 2:1 torque multiplication potential from Torque Converter = effective torque multiplication of 40.702:1 in first gear.
4.33:1 FDR X 2.842:1 Second Gear = 12.30586:1 X 2:1 Torque Converter multiplication = 24.61172:1
My RTH in first and second gear is close enough to my Bronco in first and second gear and low range so that if I would be in second gear and low range in my Bronco, I'll be in second gear in my RTH and if I'd be in first in the Bronco, I'll be in first in the RTH.
TFL used to say that the RTH wasn't geared low enough for off-pavement use because it didn't have a true low range. Math, which doesn't like, says they were wrong.
And TFL is still spreading fiction in this video. Young master Mica seems to have the idea that the ZF 9 HP ia a fragile thing. TFL doesn't mention that the unit has a torque input rating in excess of 350 ft/pounds and they never mention that Honda, Nissan, and Land Rover have used the same transmission in their vehicles. Jeep customers certainly did complain about the transmission shifting too slow, too fast, and hunting for gears. They're really complaining about a software problem and not the hardware. The samme transmission was used in Aura models and some of their owners had the same complaints Jeep cusomers did, for the same kind of reasons related to algorithms and not the hardware.
TFL says "if you want to go off road, get a Wrangler."
Been there, done that, in a TJ.. I don't miss it. At all. Young Mica complains about the buzzy 2.4 Tigershark but it's a smooth-running thing compared to a pushrod OHV Jeep 2.5. My RTH will get to 60 from a stop in 9 seconds or less. My TJ took about 15. My Bronco took 12.5.
Right off the showroom floor, my RTH did Slaughterhouse Gulch without much fuss or drama. I picked that trail as the maiden voyage because it's about as tough as any I run in Arizona and New Mexico where I do most of my trail running nowadays.
I think the RTH was pretty close to being the perfect tool for people like me who run trails as a means to an end. I run trails that go someplace I want to go in order to do something besides getting my kidneys bounced on a trail. I wanted something that could get up to 30 mpg on the long highway slogs I have to drive in order to get to the trails that take me where I want to go and be capable of handling the majority of trails in stock form with no mods beyond swapping tires.
A Renegade Trailhawk might suck at rock crawling, but as what you younger people call an "overlander," I think the thing is pretty fantastic. The only thing stopping it from being perfect are algorithms that conspite to cut engine output under specific circumtances in order to keep me from breaking the drivetrain. Eruo spec versions owned by Italian friends in Italy don't seem to have that problem.
I am still driving an 06 TJ 4.0 it is an X with Limited slip rear axle, with a few other options, it was $25k new 18 years ago.
I commute 124 miles round-trip per day. If there was the option of an electric AWD Jeep that was rated for 300 miles per day for $28,000, I would order one right away and just charge it at home every night. I would keep the old Ford F-150 for towing and hauling though.
I have a 2020 renegade and this vehicle is perfect for someone with no kids. They need to bring it back electric
The Jeep Avenger would be awesome!! I have been wondering if it was coming to the US. The electric infrastructure here in Minnesota SUCKS!!
Exactly bring back a $20, 000 with the 100k warranty not a $100,00 price it's not a condo
A Copy of the new Suzuki Jimny would have been the best thing. Solid axles, manual transfer case, and just enough tech to pass safety standards.
Just saw the Avenger on the road in Italy. Great looking vehicle, but a little small for the states. It reminded me of a lifted hatchback compared to the slightly larger Renegade
How about the Renegade 4xE that is available in Europe. Does that fix the powertrain?
I wish Jeep had this vehicle now. We just bought a Chevy Trax, which seems like a good vehicle, but I would have cross shopped this.