I think they were going to try and kill firelord Osai if ang didn't come out. I think Iroh specifically learnt from the other nations to find the avatar and when he didn't find him, he wanted to nurture a worthy firelord for after the old one was dead.
When you do stuff in such a masterful way, sometimes things just line up for you that you never intended. But yeah, definitely at least a little intentional.
The best water bender of the North / the best of the South The best earth bender / the greatest earth bender in the world The best sword master / the best military mind to tackle the fire nation The deserter / the banished prince The master of all 4 bending disciplines / the master of all 4 elements Great find. This is a gem
No you forget that Aang's first teacher was Monk Giato. Non of the Lotus members where even born let alone that they thought the monks how to airbend. Also we can even wonder who trained Appa? did Aang do so or did the monks at the western air temple do that?
With the possible exception of Gyatso, who was probably a member of the White Lotus himself. And for what it's worth, Toph did get in a bit of training alongside Bumi. So maybe she didn't learn from him, but sparring with him did sharpen both their skills on the eve of battle.
Yeah, I keep forgetting that there are way more members of the White Lotus scattered in each nation (the 5 members we meet are just representatives of their respective nations and martial arts prowess). A white lotus member can be an ordinary civilian but with the knowledge of the secret language of Pai Sho, that person can be a valuable ally in plain sight without raising suspicion. If I remember correctly, The White Lotus was a secret society that dates back long before the Sozins War even began (remember, Iroh never formed the White Lotus, he's just known as a leader because he's a long-trusted and valuable member with years of experience)
Honestly, I would not be surprised if they made those connections deliberately. I once went to a convention where I actually got to see the cast of avatar, and straight from the horse's mouth, they said the script, the lines were never improvised.
Also Sokka and Piandao seem to be a great judge of character. Piandao reassured Sokka he is much of a capable man than he let himself to be. Sokka he protected an innocent fire nation man from Jet and hearing Jet out during Ba Sing Se
It would have to be a story where his son survives. In that case, he would conquer Ba Sing Se and defeat the rest of the Earth Kingdom. With the full focus of the Fire Nation army on the Northern Water Tribe, I reckon they would surrender in under a year. The world would eventually resemble Republic City, but 150 years earlier.
It amazes me how after all these years there are still more theories like this popping up. It’s proof of how in rich and connected the world that was created really is and what makes this show so great.
Also one thing to add: their social standings are parallels as well. Iroh abandoned the war due to the death of a loved one, while Aang abandons his loved ones and that results in their deaths. Pakku was the oldest and most experienced master in the North, while Katara was the last water bender of the South. Pian Dao most likely earned his reputation fighting for the Fire Nation, while Sokka takes those same skills to fight against them. Bumi is seen as a decrepit, mad king, but is actually quite powerful and cunning, and Toph is seen as a defenseless, blind rich girl, but is actually more aware then most and arguably the strongest Earth Bender besides Bumi himself. Then there's Jiang Jiang, who is Zhao's master, and considers Zhao a failure of a student for not understanding the true essence of fire bending other than destruction, while Zuko defeats Zhao and learns this lesson over his journey and then directly from the source of fire bending. Absolutely phenomenal video man
I thought it was pretty obvious that the white lotus represent the four nations and other walks of life. The other details are easier to gloss over so kudos on drawing all the parallels.
This is really interesting. I would love to see an alternate universe where Aang is released from the iceberg earlier and teams up with this older generation to fight against the fire nation and a younger Iroh bad guy. Perhaps Iroh was bitter because his brother swindled the throne from him, creating motivation for his military conquest. He went to learn from the dragons but in this world, perhaps he did kill them so that nobody else could learn the same powers he had. Iroh can also lightning bend so he would have a deadliness akin to Azula. He lost his son during an attack on Ba Sing Se which could be his breaking point. Iroh could have a redemption arc like Zuko which shows how he developed his humility and wisdom.
A more simplistic way to tie Aang and Iroh together is the fact that the two of them have significant ties to the spirit world, with the Avatar being the bridge to the spirit world, and Iroh seemingly being able to perceive things in the spirit world.
Also since the avatar has the deepest connection to the spirit world, it reflects to Iroh also having a deep connection to it, e.g. seeing the dragon fly by and also later in LoK where we see him in the spirit world
I did in fact notice this! But I do think that Iroh corresponds to Zuko more in terms of how each member matches with the Gaang, but Toph and Bumi don’t really have the same teacher connection so I can understand that.
Really now. That thing was figured out way back. But good to watch it again cause it about one of my favorite things in this series- The Order of the White Lotus.
I think they were going to try and kill firelord Osai if ang didn't come out. I think Iroh specifically learnt from the other nations to find the avatar and when he didn't find him, he wanted to nurture a worthy firelord for after the old one was dead.
Aside from Aang Iroh is also one of the most spiritual connected person in the series. Also both regretted their actions heavily, for Iroh obviously the war and Aang for leaving his home catching the storm which in turn 100 year war happened which lead to the extinction of his people
Probably someone noticed & pointed it out already, but also there is a call back to avatar cycle, that step between generations, Iroh (fire) to Aang (air).
In the series, Aang, Katara, and Sokka were looking for people to teach Aang. Pakku was Aang's original Waterbending teacher before Katara. Bumi was Aang's original choice for an Earthbending teacher before he met Toph. And his first Firebending lesson was under Jeong Jeong. That's what I meant when I said they were the original candidates for Aang's teachers.
i was watching something else about Naruto and its even more obvious in that story how the characters are all parallels of each other & ontop of that they are mirror the main character, Naruto i think its a literary device
I really like how straightforward the names in ATLA are. Piandao, the Fire Nation sword master, is named after piàndāo (片刀) -- a type of sabre used throughout the Ming and Qing dynasties. (Another unrelated example is the cabbage guy, named Cai, which quite literally means "vegetable" lol)
Iroh & Aang are the most spiritual members of their respective groups. You could probably argue that their spirituality is the reason they are the strongest among their peers, specially due to the world building of ATLA.
This feels like something that developped organically and then was strengthened through deliberate choices later on. Also it's interesting that iroh would probably be a great avatar, but would have been a terrible avatar if he was the avatar. I know this is confusing let me explain =p He wasn't born in a context that gave him the opportunity to develop the wisdom to be the avatar and if he had such power (ignoring the whole, fire nation trying to kill the avatar thing) he probably would never have developped the wisdom necessary to be it, but by lacking such power and self reflection he gets to develop the wisdom necessary to be a great avatar. My point is the hereditary power system of the avatar is broken! let's topple the avatararchy! revolution!
Possibly, it's the least the White Lotus could do. The question is, why hasn't The White Lotus tried to contact Aang sooner upon the news that the Avatar has returned (it could have saved the gang more time instead of traveling the whole world) and given Katara and Aang masters faster, now that I think about it, how did Pakku even manage to join The White Lotus with a narrow and s*xist view on woman bending (was it before or after the north pole incident)
I think the White Lotus very rarely involved themselves in those matters. You remember, they actually say that the White Lotus is about wisdom, philosophy, and beauty, but Iroh had called them together for something greater (freeing Ba Sing Se). Otherwise, they would have fought in the war long before. The reason why they were so involved in Korra's training is because she was almost kidnapped by the Red Lotus as a child. As for Pakku's sexist beliefs, I don't believe their screening process involves answering a survey asking "Do you believe women should learn bending? Check yes or no."
Neat! I didn't put all that together. But the weakest part of the comparison is Aang and Iroh. It doesn't quite hold up. Still definitely like the video.
Didn't jeong jeong train Zuko? I remember this from the fight early in the series, where he beats that colonel or whatever, and says that his master was disappointed in him. Maybe I'm just imagining that, though.
I mean, it's not really a fair comparison. In a show about bending elements and unifying to save the world, it would be peculiar if there weren't masters from all of them And Sokka is only a swordsman because of Piandao. Plus, Pakku taught Katara and Bumi taught Aang a little. Oh, and Iroh taught Zuko. So that last part is kind of like "isn't it weird that the group in which the masters are have the same skills as their students?". Kind of an unfair thing to call weird. (Implied by the "have you ever noticed", at least to me) Cool? Sure, you can call it cool.
Jeong Jeong is literally Zuko with an extra 45 years of angst and self-loathing.
Also, they both have scars on their face.
Jeong Jeong: "Your scar's on the wrong side".
Zuko: "THE SCAR'S NOT ON THE WRONG SIDE!"
Even their ages are reverse
Jeong Jeong-61
Zuko-16
@@AtarahDerek seems like it
@@Blunderman-rl1hc One thing can not be argued, tho: Jeong Jeong's scar is undeniably on the right side.
The white lotus could have been the team avatar if Aang was released from the iceberg earlier.
What if Pakku had gone looking for Kanna 75 years ago and accidentally freed Aang? They'd both be around 16, Bumi would be in his late 20's and so on.
Except Iroh because Aangs friend would be alive Iroh was evil back then same with his friebender friend
@@maadtee6281 so like zuko?
I think they were going to try and kill firelord Osai if ang didn't come out. I think Iroh specifically learnt from the other nations to find the avatar and when he didn't find him, he wanted to nurture a worthy firelord for after the old one was dead.
@@Mogodu_Rachoshi good point!
You don't write a character arc as masterful as zuko, then accidentally make these parallel characters. This had to be intentional.
When you do stuff in such a masterful way, sometimes things just line up for you that you never intended. But yeah, definitely at least a little intentional.
Also jong jong hates firebending because of how it uses anger, and Zuko learns how to firebend without using his anger
Zulu 🤣
It would have been great to see Zuko walk Joeng Joeng Dragon style firebending
Omg I never made that connection
@@artyommelnikov3787 zuzu
I appreciate this video because instead of a 3 hour video essay, you illustrated this cool observation in 2 minutes. Great video dude!
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Name one 3 hour video essay that could be condensed into 2 minutes.
@@TheDetectiveJhow would you know?
Agreed. Always appreciate it when UA-camrs are concise
@xenn4985 There's a channel called chadcat, and it feels like he can do it if someone requests it.
The best water bender of the North / the best of the South
The best earth bender / the greatest earth bender in the world
The best sword master / the best military mind to tackle the fire nation
The deserter / the banished prince
The master of all 4 bending disciplines / the master of all 4 elements
Great find. This is a gem
This comment should be pinned!!!
Iroh was also the only one to notice when Aang was in the spirit world
Another thing. Every one of Aang's teachers on team avatar was trained by a member of the white lotus, except Toph.
No you forget that Aang's first teacher was Monk Giato. Non of the Lotus members where even born let alone that they thought the monks how to airbend.
Also we can even wonder who trained Appa? did Aang do so or did the monks at the western air temple do that?
Unless the badgermoles are secretly part of the white lotus too🤷🏻♂️
With the possible exception of Gyatso, who was probably a member of the White Lotus himself. And for what it's worth, Toph did get in a bit of training alongside Bumi. So maybe she didn't learn from him, but sparring with him did sharpen both their skills on the eve of battle.
@@nja1497 I mentioned that Toph wasn't trained by the white lotus members.
@@sirBrouwer Yeah, let me edit my comment real quick.
don't forget both groups also have a representative beast (appa vs flopsie)
Whos flopsie?
King Bumis pet monster.
To be honest, the White Lotus was a multinational group so having representatives from all the nations is actually something to expect.
Yeah, I keep forgetting that there are way more members of the White Lotus scattered in each nation (the 5 members we meet are just representatives of their respective nations and martial arts prowess). A white lotus member can be an ordinary civilian but with the knowledge of the secret language of Pai Sho, that person can be a valuable ally in plain sight without raising suspicion. If I remember correctly, The White Lotus was a secret society that dates back long before the Sozins War even began (remember, Iroh never formed the White Lotus, he's just known as a leader because he's a long-trusted and valuable member with years of experience)
yes!! Aang-Iroh parallels are so cool and underrated in the show but they really are one of my favourite little consistencies throughout
Both Zuko and Jeong Jeong have major anger issues
But jeong jeong doesn’t really have anger issues
@@grape_lamonade zuko has issues with (having) anger
jong jong has issues with (people who have) anger
they are not the same
@@gas132 alright pal
They sure do
You want to stop breathing!?
Given how much work went into the writing of Avatar, I suspect it's intentional. Nice catch!
The most direct Aang-Iroh parallel I could think of was that they’ve both accessed the spirit world
Iroh also had a connection to the spirit world.
Also the team avatar earthbender was chosen because of the advice of the white lotus earthbender. Nice video!
Honestly, I would not be surprised if they made those connections deliberately. I once went to a convention where I actually got to see the cast of avatar, and straight from the horse's mouth, they said the script, the lines were never improvised.
this dude's voice kinda KINDA ~kinda~ sounds like sokka
Also Sokka and Piandao seem to be a great judge of character. Piandao reassured Sokka he is much of a capable man than he let himself to be. Sokka he protected an innocent fire nation man from Jet and hearing Jet out during Ba Sing Se
Imagine how different the avatar story could turn out if Iroh became fire lord.
I think the official UA-cam channel has a video about that
It would have to be a story where his son survives. In that case, he would conquer Ba Sing Se and defeat the rest of the Earth Kingdom. With the full focus of the Fire Nation army on the Northern Water Tribe, I reckon they would surrender in under a year.
The world would eventually resemble Republic City, but 150 years earlier.
Dude that refference of Aang being equivalent to Iroh...Since Iroh based his mastery of fire on the knowledge of other elements as well.Good point.
It amazes me how after all these years there are still more theories like this popping up. It’s proof of how in rich and connected the world that was created really is and what makes this show so great.
Great catch! Wonder if a certain Over Analyzer will make his way to this vid...
Also one thing to add: their social standings are parallels as well. Iroh abandoned the war due to the death of a loved one, while Aang abandons his loved ones and that results in their deaths. Pakku was the oldest and most experienced master in the North, while Katara was the last water bender of the South. Pian Dao most likely earned his reputation fighting for the Fire Nation, while Sokka takes those same skills to fight against them. Bumi is seen as a decrepit, mad king, but is actually quite powerful and cunning, and Toph is seen as a defenseless, blind rich girl, but is actually more aware then most and arguably the strongest Earth Bender besides Bumi himself. Then there's Jiang Jiang, who is Zhao's master, and considers Zhao a failure of a student for not understanding the true essence of fire bending other than destruction, while Zuko defeats Zhao and learns this lesson over his journey and then directly from the source of fire bending. Absolutely phenomenal video man
@@ItsThatKidGreg no the best earth bender is Momo.
It’s basically a window to their future
stuff like this makes me wish aang and iroh got to interact more
This was a great video, it was a nice short little treat.
I thought it was pretty obvious that the white lotus represent the four nations and other walks of life. The other details are easier to gloss over so kudos on drawing all the parallels.
This is really interesting. I would love to see an alternate universe where Aang is released from the iceberg earlier and teams up with this older generation to fight against the fire nation and a younger Iroh bad guy. Perhaps Iroh was bitter because his brother swindled the throne from him, creating motivation for his military conquest. He went to learn from the dragons but in this world, perhaps he did kill them so that nobody else could learn the same powers he had. Iroh can also lightning bend so he would have a deadliness akin to Azula. He lost his son during an attack on Ba Sing Se which could be his breaking point. Iroh could have a redemption arc like Zuko which shows how he developed his humility and wisdom.
Toph is the youngest, Bumi is the oldest
Great theory tbh. This video is the explanation why we all need a white lotus series.
Knowing what We do, it was absolutely an intentional parallel.
Yes because I watched with my eyes and ears open lmao
A more simplistic way to tie Aang and Iroh together is the fact that the two of them have significant ties to the spirit world, with the Avatar being the bridge to the spirit world, and Iroh seemingly being able to perceive things in the spirit world.
Aang and Iroh have their connection to the spirit world in common
Just when I think we've analyzed and discussed everything there is to know about this show, some new revolutionary detail pops up.
Excellent realization. Gotta be intentional, I think
Thank you for sharing ! That was very interesting! I have not noticed it myself, but I agree 100%
Also since the avatar has the deepest connection to the spirit world, it reflects to Iroh also having a deep connection to it, e.g. seeing the dragon fly by and also later in LoK where we see him in the spirit world
Toph, Zuko , Sokka and Katara are prodigies of their own perspective practices and Iroh has the mentality of a fully realised avatar.
Novel and concise, well done.
I did in fact notice this! But I do think that Iroh corresponds to Zuko more in terms of how each member matches with the Gaang, but Toph and Bumi don’t really have the same teacher connection so I can understand that.
I like the parallels
Feels like how the main six characters in Harry Potter correspond to the previous generation.
You are right, this IS interesting! Thank you for sharing
Thanks for pointing out something I never took a notice of.
Good shows have so many little but cool details to show
Really now. That thing was figured out way back. But good to watch it again cause it about one of my favorite things in this series- The Order of the White Lotus.
So all the chill dudes are in the white lotus noted
I think they were going to try and kill firelord Osai if ang didn't come out. I think Iroh specifically learnt from the other nations to find the avatar and when he didn't find him, he wanted to nurture a worthy firelord for after the old one was dead.
Aside from Aang Iroh is also one of the most spiritual connected person in the series. Also both regretted their actions heavily, for Iroh obviously the war and Aang for leaving his home catching the storm which in turn 100 year war happened which lead to the extinction of his people
Probably someone noticed & pointed it out already, but also there is a call back to avatar cycle, that step between generations, Iroh (fire) to Aang (air).
That the white lotus should have learned it to Aang originally isn't true. Only Bumi is old enough. The rest of them are to young.
In the series, Aang, Katara, and Sokka were looking for people to teach Aang. Pakku was Aang's original Waterbending teacher before Katara. Bumi was Aang's original choice for an Earthbending teacher before he met Toph. And his first Firebending lesson was under Jeong Jeong.
That's what I meant when I said they were the original candidates for Aang's teachers.
i was watching something else about Naruto and its even more obvious in that story how the characters are all parallels of each other & ontop of that they are mirror the main character, Naruto
i think its a literary device
I really like how straightforward the names in ATLA are.
Piandao, the Fire Nation sword master, is named after piàndāo (片刀) -- a type of sabre used throughout the Ming and Qing dynasties.
(Another unrelated example is the cabbage guy, named Cai, which quite literally means "vegetable" lol)
Also, Iroh and Aang have strong connections with the Spirits (Iroh living in the spirit realm at TLoK and Aang being the Avatar).
Aang and Iroh are the closest to the spiritual realm
Yeah, it's kinda rule of the genre
that's actually crazy
Iroh is also the most spiritual of the group, just like Aang. He even goes to the spirit world instead of wherever normal people go after death
Anyone would've turned this into a 10min video, thanks for being so concise, this video feels like a breath of fresh air
Bumi and Toph are also the only metal benders!
Since when is Bumi a metal bender?
@@potatocow3305 for some reason I thought he got out of that metal coffin with his hands 🫣
That was very interesting, thank you for sharing
ben? is that you?
Don't forget the Avatar Cycle. The previous Avatar was Fire Nation so Iroh being Fire Nation kinda fits with him being Aang's counterpart
Toph is the Greatest Earthbender of all time. Sorry Bumi 😂
And it’s cool because Bumi could debatably beat Iroh in a fight and Toph could debatably beat Aang in a fight.
Iroh & Aang are the most spiritual members of their respective groups. You could probably argue that their spirituality is the reason they are the strongest among their peers, specially due to the world building of ATLA.
Great video man!
This feels like something that developped organically and then was strengthened through deliberate choices later on.
Also it's interesting that iroh would probably be a great avatar, but would have been a terrible avatar if he was the avatar. I know this is confusing let me explain =p He wasn't born in a context that gave him the opportunity to develop the wisdom to be the avatar and if he had such power (ignoring the whole, fire nation trying to kill the avatar thing) he probably would never have developped the wisdom necessary to be it, but by lacking such power and self reflection he gets to develop the wisdom necessary to be a great avatar.
My point is the hereditary power system of the avatar is broken! let's topple the avatararchy! revolution!
Super cool thank you for sharing
If one of Aang's people from the air nation survived, would he have become a member of the White Lotus as the air bender of that group?
Possibly, it's the least the White Lotus could do. The question is, why hasn't The White Lotus tried to contact Aang sooner upon the news that the Avatar has returned (it could have saved the gang more time instead of traveling the whole world) and given Katara and Aang masters faster, now that I think about it, how did Pakku even manage to join The White Lotus with a narrow and s*xist view on woman bending (was it before or after the north pole incident)
I think the White Lotus very rarely involved themselves in those matters. You remember, they actually say that the White Lotus is about wisdom, philosophy, and beauty, but Iroh had called them together for something greater (freeing Ba Sing Se). Otherwise, they would have fought in the war long before. The reason why they were so involved in Korra's training is because she was almost kidnapped by the Red Lotus as a child.
As for Pakku's sexist beliefs, I don't believe their screening process involves answering a survey asking "Do you believe women should learn bending? Check yes or no."
Nice theory.
Neat! I didn't put all that together. But the weakest part of the comparison is Aang and Iroh. It doesn't quite hold up. Still definitely like the video.
Wow interesting. Great video 😊
The Melon Lord is stronger than Aang
Awesome observation
Ok but where's the White Lotus equivalent of Momo?
Clever
Very smart!
When tf did Ben Shapiro get into ATLA
true ngl
Amazing vido
Idk about iroh being a parallel to aang
Yeahhh.
Let's be real.
Uncle was more of an Avatar philosophically compared to Aang.
Play at 1.5x speed and it's POV: Ben Shapiro infodumps ATLA. 😂
No disrespect, just playing around, great video King i never noticed this.
Idk, I think Bumi is probably more powerful than Iroh.
This is so cool!
Damn that's crazy
That’s a bit of a stretch
Nice vid mate
*Suki left the chat
good point
What if the members of the white lotus were meant to be aangs teachers before the unfreezing?
Holy Similar!!!
Aang and Zuko should have been switched. Zuko and Jeong Jeong had no real interaction but I understand why aang and iroh are compared.
Didn't jeong jeong train Zuko? I remember this from the fight early in the series, where he beats that colonel or whatever, and says that his master was disappointed in him. Maybe I'm just imagining that, though.
Jeong Jeong trained Zhao.
"That's *Admiral* Zhao."
However, in the comics it's revealed that Zuko was trained to use broadswords by Master Piandao.
yes
It's pretty cool to think about, right?
this is nothing worth noticing
I mean, it's not really a fair comparison.
In a show about bending elements and unifying to save the world, it would be peculiar if there weren't masters from all of them
And Sokka is only a swordsman because of Piandao. Plus, Pakku taught Katara and Bumi taught Aang a little. Oh, and Iroh taught Zuko.
So that last part is kind of like "isn't it weird that the group in which the masters are have the same skills as their students?".
Kind of an unfair thing to call weird. (Implied by the "have you ever noticed", at least to me)
Cool? Sure, you can call it cool.