uktena, apparently a horned serpent from cherokee myth that breaths poison and has a hypnotic shining gem on its head im wondering how legitimate this myth is because it has so many similarities to the slaying of fafnir: digging a trench, hitting its weak spot, destroying its heart, poison breath
You had my attention with Dragons, but you blew my mind with that 75,000 year date and tracing the story along the lines of human migration. Love this story.
It was a work of syncretism. Dragons, for the Ancient Greeks, were merely snakes or serpents, but as what we call dragons today, they are not real "dragons", they are called like that because the Christian missionaries had the goal of converting people by manufacturing similarities, like "jotum = giants, like the Nephilim or Goliath".
I mean when the aborigines reached Australia there were giant lizards 5x the size of a Komodo dragon who could eat a person whole. I imagine it may have paid a part especially as that was around 100,000 to 70,000 years ago
Problem today they use fake science on dinosaurs to deny human beings were of a larger proportion in the stories we think we relate to. Adam was a giant. Some say Golgata is his skull.
@@James-sk4db as well as large crocs and constrictors that likely added to the legends. Also, considering that many of the oldest dragon legends were snake like and created storms it's possible those ancient people equated serpentine lightning streaks in the sky as those very dragons.
I'd be interested in learning about the origins behind Ancient Greece's large trove of unique, hybrid monsters, such as the gorgons, the manticore, and the chimera.
@@DeanBatha Which isn't a hybrid monster.... you know, a hybrid of multiple things, with parts of multiple creatures. The minotaur might be one of the simpler one, being part human, part ox.
While conducting research of my own, I have found some links between Greece and Egypt and this went beyond the Sphinx. So if we trace Egypt back, might we suggest the Soumerians? Or any people around the Mesopotamia really.
Facinating, as someone who is also interested in paleoanthropology as well, the thought that our dragon stories are connected to our "snake aversion" going back to our early primate past is thought provoking. The more we learn about ourselves and our past the more connected we are to that distant past. The connecting of the Dragon mottif to stories in South Africa around 75,000 years ago is .... (running out of adjectives here) mind bogling. Thank you for your videos, I enjoy them hugely, wonderful stuff.
As someone that has worked professionally with dinosaur bones, teeth etc, it's never been lost on me how amazing and scary some of the dinosaurs appear. I found it interesting that in some of these myths the dragons lived underground. To early humans it may not have been a big leap to think these creatures in the ground (dinosaurs) were dragons or creatures from the netherworld. Very good and informative video. 👍🦖
As much as I love Dragons, that is where my money lies. Early humans found dinosaur fossil, not knowing anything about them(i.e. Time frame) stories of Dragons started, and grew, changed over time with re-telling, until what we call modern Dragons finally emerged.
@@rianmacdonald9454 I would still leave the door open to dragons in a way. There may have been some sort of dinosaur relative that existed during human times. Just because we've never found a much later dragon/dinosaur, doesn't mean they never existed. They could have been a true rarity even. Never say never. 👍
@@Montana_horseman Except for fire-breathing dragons. There's just no way nature would create such an animal, and the ability to breath fire isn't seen anywhere else in the current or past natural world.
The video from the Thunderbolts Project, "Symbols of an Alien Sky" has the best take on the possible origin of dragon myths, claiming they were plasma events when some of the planets were much closer to Earth. But I'm sure exposed dinosaur fossils from the past had to play a more than minor role in all this...
“There’s only one story. There’s only one person in that story. And that person is you.” This channel does an excellent job explaining how the character and locations change in that story depending on the culture telling it. Here’s a hint for aspiring writers. It’s not the writer’s job to come up with a story. Their job is to keep the audience from realizing they are hearing the same thing over and over again. Writer’s block exist for writers that haven’t figured this out yet. Thanks for the content! I look forward to future videos.
What about the idea that a river looks a lot like a snake? Rivers were super important to early humans due to being a source of fresh water. The association with rain in a lot of the tales also seems to bear that out. If you climb a hill and look at a big river valley, you might think "a massive snake came through here and left the water behind". P.s. i love the channel, thank you for making this content!
I'm sure rivers did provide some influence, but the remnants of that motif isn't clear in the mythology we've been left with. Although I do hint at it in the Australian Myth, where the snake carves out rivers.
My horses will often react strongly to the moving sunlit wavelets on a body of water as if it were a snake or dragon. They seem more afraid of snakes than anything - which gives credence to the hypotheses in this fine video.
In brazil we have a dragon myth called Boitatá, it has a snake like apperance that expels fire and eats the eyes of people, is seen as a guardian of the forests
I'm glad your channel exists to discuss these myths in detail. Too long UA-cam's been infested with wannabe experts that speak very dismissively about the myths and their origins. It's truly a refreshing experience each time I click one of your videos.
@@vishuddhavibes, When I interact with the sky Dragons I remember I am one of them. I often wonder how many of us are Dragons having a human experience. I do know others I think are Dragons too. Are you? Much Love
@@edie4321 I believe that I align completely with what you’re saying. I remember flying. I remember great power. I remember being the color green and blue. I remember the sky. Gosh you just made me feel 10x less crazy
Thank you for the great videos. I went to college in the 90’s during the peak of the anti-diffusionism movement. I use that term because calling my professors regionalists downplays their actual agenda. Any mention of Joseph Campbell and his theories about the interconnections between myths from various cultures was greeted with derision. I always felt that Campbell was onto something and that the various myths and ideas must stretch far back into deep time during the human migrations. It’s nice to see that computers and statistical analysis of these myths is showing that Campbell’s core ideas about their interconnections and diffusion were correct.
The first form of the Bible was written in 325BC, 80 years before the Antikythera mechanism, and was called the Vaticanus Graecus, Son of the Divine Serpent, a reference to Fomalhaut, which is shaped like the all seeing eye, in Aquarius, the sign associated with John the Baptist, who was a Setian, the root word of Satan. Just as israel is the Phoenician word for Saturn, or El, Fruit of Isis and Ra. In the Second Century AD Astrologer Vettori Valentinus used the Vaticanus Graecus to construct a lunar zodiac of 13 months, this correlates to the 18.6/ 19 year Metonic Calendar, found in the earliest known ancient temples, the Bible, Antikythera mechanism, New Grange and the Bru na Boinne, the Chaldeans, Egyptians, Assyrians, Celts, Phoenicians, and inscribed into the Golden Enoch Horns of the Magi, the Eunuch Druid Priests of Cybel, or Kythera, the "Great Mother", (who also has 216 names) in Germany and France. A Druid took 19 years to train, and the Phoenix was associated with 19 flames. TLDR; the ancient metric system of time used by the builders of the Megalithic sites all over the world directly correlates to the Astrological Zodiac and allows for the surveying of the entire globe. It's worth noting our current system has 8,640 seconds in a day, just as the sun is 864,000 miles wide. Enoch also wrote 36,525 scrolls, which is 365.25 times 100, the Egyptian number of perfection, which allowed them to calculate things to the second decimal place. The Great Pyramid is a Calendar, based on the Metonic Cycle and the Zodiac, hence the association of Osiris with Orion, and Pleiades Isis, atop the back of Taurus, just as the Phoenician Princess Europa, who rode the Bull. The entire Mediterranean region was also mapped out according to key constellations, marked by these Megalithic structures, which themselves encode these numbers Other names for Isis include Semiramus, Aphrodite, Europa, Kythera, Cybele, and Cylene. The Byblos Baal, or Book of Baal is the Phoenician Almanac, a coded book of Astrological cycles used by the Priest Class of Egypt; the Phoenicians, to navigate the oceans. Phoenicians, Celts, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Egyptians and Jews all celebrated their New Year in September, the 7th month, the Sunsign of Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer, associated with the healing Gods, and marked by the first New Moon in the 7th month after the start of the Zodiac in Easter, when Ophiuchus is the East Star. In September the East star is Orion, aka Osiris, aka Set, Lord of the Dead. Hence the Aleph, and the Zayim, Alpha and Omega. It's also the Birthday of Jesus, and when he said he would return, at the end of the Age. It's reversed to keep the code secret, and written in metaphor so no one could know what was contained therein. It's an Enigma Code, literally. The Metonic cycle, in chronology, is a period of 19 years in which there are 235 lunations, or synodic months, after which the Moon's phases recur on the same days of the solar year, or year of the seasons. The cycle was discovered by Meton (fl. 432 bc), an Athenian astronomer. The Pyramid is also 230 metres square, or 235 Megalithic Yards. En-men-dur-ana (also Emmeduranki) of Sippar was an ancient Sumerian king, whose name appears in the Sumerian King List as the seventh pre-dynastic king of Sumer. He was said to have reigned for 43,200 years His name means "chief of the powers of Dur-an-ki", while "Dur-an-ki" in turn means "the meeting-place of heaven and earth" (literally "bond of above and below") Arc of the Covenant There are also 86,400 seconds in a 24 hr day. 24 minutes is 1440 seconds, times 100 gives us 144,000 A list of ten kings was composed in Greece c. 280 BC by the Babylonian priest Berossos, and their reign totals 432,000 years. In the Icelandic Poetic Edda it is said that there are 540 doors in Odin's heavenly hall of warriors Five hundred doors and forty there are I ween in Valhalls walls; Eight hundred fighters through each door fare Where to war the Wolf they go. The war with the Wolf was the recurrent battle of the gods and anti-gods at the end of each cosmic round. Here we have 540 x 800 = 432,000. In the Mahabharata and Puranic texts, the cosmic cycle of four world ages numbers 12,000 divine years, one year corresponding to 360 human years for a total of 12,000 x 360 = 4,320,000 human years. This is broken down into yugas as follows: Kali = 432,000 years or 1200 x 360 Dwarpa = 864,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 2 Treta = 1,296,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 3 Satya = 1,728,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 4 The number 432,000 has been found in Europe (1100 AD), India( very ancient, and 400 BC), Mesopotamia (c 300 BC)in reference to a cosmic eon. At the moment of the Spring equinox (March 21) the heavens are never quite in the same position they were the year before, since there is an annual lag of 50 seconds which in the course of 72 years amounts to 1 degree (50" x 72 = 3600" = 60' = 1 degree) and in 2160 years amounts to 30 degrees or one sign of the zodiac. For instance, today the sun stands in Aquarius at the Spring equinox, in 1976 the sun stood in Pisces and in the time of Christ it was in Aries. This slippage is known as the precession of the equinox. Copernicus in 1526 AD calculated this same figure. We note also that the lag is 50 seconds/year or 1 degree in 72 years, 30 degrees in 2160 years, 360 degrees in 25,920 years or one complete cycle of the zodiac. But 25,920 divided by 60 gives 432. The ancient Sumerian calendar had five-day weeks or 72 x 5 = 360 days per year. But 360 x 72 = 25,920. The integer 1200 represents the sum of the years in India for a cosmic cycle. Now 1200 x 201 = 241,200 1200 x 380 = 456,000 1200 x 360 = 432,000 These numbers correspond to the Sumerian tablet list of ten kings who ruled for a total of 456,00 years, a second tablet which lists only eight of these kings with a total of 241,200 years, and Berossos' list. The Book of Genesis lists ten patriarchs from Adam to Noah and the Flood totalling 1656 years. In the Jewish calendar one year is 365 days. In 23 years plus 5 leap year days we have 8400 days or 1200 seven-day weeks. If we multiply 1200 x 72 we get 86,400 or the number of Jewish seven-day weeks in 1656 (23 x 72) years. Since the Babylonian calendar year was composed of 72 five-day weeks, then in 432,000 days there are 86,400 Babylonian five-day weeks. Then in 432,000 days there are 86,400 Babylonian five-day weeks (432,000/5). Thus the Bible concurs with the other lists as well. The earth's axis wobble that causes the precession of the equinoxes is given as 25,920 years. Divided by the ancient number called "soss," 60, which was used in calculations, results in 432. The Greek Ages also bear a close correspondence to the four Yugas of the Hindus: Krita-Yuga, Treta-Yuga, Dvapara-Yuga, and Kali-Yuga. Their method of calculation is described by Ullamudeian as follows: "In each of the 12 signs there are 1800 minutes; multiply this number by 12 you have 21600; e.g. 1800 X 12=21600. Multiply this 21600 by 80 and it will give 1,728,000, which is the duration of the first age, called Krita-Yuga." If the same number be multiplied by 60, it will give 1,296,000, the years of the second age, Treta-Yuga. The same number multiplied by 40 gives 864,000, the length of the third age, Dvapara-Yuga. The same multiplied by 20 gives 432,000, the fourth age, Kali-Yuga." (It will be noted that these multipliers decrease in inverse ratio to the Pythagorean tetractys: 1, 2, 3, and 4.) The Essenes studied the Mysteries of Pythagoras. His name means Heart (Bel) of the Serpent. The cycle of the Phoenix encodes the astrological calendar by which they removed 3 days every 630 years. This was expressed in a Pythagorean Triangle of Dimensions 216 by 630 by 666. 6 x 6 x 6 is 216, there are 2160 years in an astrological age, and the Moon is 2160 miles in diameter. The solar metonic calendar using 60 6 day weeks produces 1 extra day every 216 years. There are also 216 Megalithic seconds in a day, and 216 letters in the name of God 216 times 2 is 432, times 60 is 25,920
Two interesting Native American creatures are the Piasa and Avanyu. There was a large painting/carving of a Piasa on the cliffs above either the Mississippi or Missouri River. The Avanyu were lake and river serpents that often fought with the Thunderbirds.
YES, and if you want further debunking videos 🙃 to ponder on this subject, check out MudFossil University Roger explains the biology of earth and humans and dragons. Happy hunting the TRUTH
I had to hit up that Patreon. I look forward to each new video. I'm glad to support this great work, and can't wait for what's yet to come. Thanks so much.
Witnessing a tornado or water spout in person is truly an awe inspiring thing. It definitely brings up the image of a dragon destroying and bringing water at the same time. In Japan, one word for tornado is the same word for dragon. I've consumed many presentations on the origins of the dragon myth and have never heard anyone even bring up the tornado as a possible inspiration for the dragon myth.
I really love that Australian creation myth! It sounds, in the respect for the land and living things, much like the Old Stories from my NA great grandmother! ❤️❤️
I saw a video about dragons so I clicked it. Found a voice that I could fall asleep too in the most respectful way possible. Very knowledgeable and insightful. You've gained a subscriber. 👍
And the origin of those Chinese dragons is that each of them started as a ruler who later in their story becomes a dragon. One myth even describes the yellow dragon being made by combining animal aspects that represented different clans at the time.
Bloody hell subscriber count has shot up a fair bit I knew you would be getting the notice your content deserves before long enough. I think I joined when you had like maybe 4,000 subs. Nice to see your channel growing congrats It probably has been jumping up all the time but I hadn't actually seen you were getting close to 100,000👌
Fascinating video to watch. I've been interested in dragon myths for decades. Living in Australia, I loved hearing about the Rainbow Snake. I knew about the Chinese dragons being the source of the 4 rivers in China. I I would love to know about why Chinese dragons became the protectors of emperors and people and were considered as "good dragons', whilst Western dragons developed fire and became the "bad dragons. Finding out how much dragons were involved with water in this video has blown my mind. Thanks for making it.
Many thanks for this deeply enlightening video, drawing on a large body of research into the long, long history of our beliefs. Please make future videos about some aspects of how we view snakes and dragons - as you said, the water dragon myth, the Paleolithic snake rituals, and maybe a bit more detail about our instincts upon encountering a snake. This is amazing. Please keep going.
I'm Australian and it was great to hear you tell the story of the Rainbow Serpent, Jon! I have to agree with you about the human focus on snakes. There are so many very dangerous snakes in Australia! I live in Mindanao Philippines now, and in five years I have lived here I've only seen one snake, and it was very small and very dead. My Filipina wife here is absolutely terrified of snakes. In Mindanao we do have the King Cobra, Ophiophagus Hannah. In Mindanao Cebuano it is called "banakon". In Mindanao there is the story of the Bakunawa, the moon eating dragon. You might like to look that one up! The story is "Bakunawa and the Seven Moons". By the way, Bakunawa was a great serpent who lived in the ocean!
Would it be that over the centuries snakes were persecuted/hunted into extinction? On another note, i would be intrigued to hear wether there is a connection between the rainbow serpent and Quetzalcoatl .
@@senseeman It's possible. When you consider the myth of the Rainbow Serpent is about 10,000 years old, and human occupation in the Americas is at least that old, however I haven't seen any evidence.
This was so fascinating! Thank you for your hard work making these videos. I felt so sad when you said how much we've distanced ourselves from the thinking of our ancestors by forgetting/not remembering their stories. It really makes me want to learn more. I would love to learn more about the dragon cave ritual in France you mentioned where the snakes were sacrificed! I haven't watched all your videos yet, so not sure if you already addressed this in another video.
I've recently found your channel, and have always been fascinated by the origins of myths. I'm sharing these videos with others. Thanks so much for these great videos.
Hi! I’ve been a fan of your videos for a year now, they’ve gotten me through some hard times and never fail to fascinate me, that’s all i wanted to say, you have a lot of loyal fans, me 100% included.
I've always wondered if the aspect of the Dragon being a reptile that has the ability to fly, not to mention that many older Dragons have FEATHERS, is due to the fact that it is a composite creature that combines snakes with that OTHER major predator of early mammals and hominids... Birds, specifically birds of prey that would swoop down and snatch away a small mammal, particularly their children, and carry them off over the horizon or into the darkness of night. This may also indicate the origins of very primitive morality and child-rearing, where what NOT to do in a herd boils down to "dont anger that slithering thing in the water or that flying thing in the air... it'll getcha! And whatever you are doing at the time when it does is a thing we should stop doing altogether" Just some shower thoughts that popped up whilst watching this.
I wouldn't say dragons can fly. As etheral beings can essentially swim through the ether. Like a fish. When you look at ealier ancient chinese dragons, you can see the fish like aspects of dragons.
One could argue that "boogie man myths" like the dragon are evolutionary traits themselves that humans have developed. Societies that developed these stories were perhaps more protective of their young than ones who didn't have them, which could explain why the myth became so widespread.
I've never clicked a video faster, absolutely love your content 👍 Edit: these kind of videos where they show how there were many prehistoric religions or myths that influenced even modern-day culture and humanity in general over the millennia feels like esoteric knowledge almost, like once you know it you can start to see it in every modern-day religion and it just makes everything click together you know? It makes me feel like the natural evolution of all religions would have eventually been towards Nature in general if that makes sense, like if the Abrahamic religions hadn't essentially taken over half the world and the influenced religions had continued evolving instead of dying out. Sorry if this sounds like a ramble XD
That was awesome! I've watched many Crecganford videos and loved them all. I've learned so much about these old myths and stories. I think this video might be my favorite! 75000 years is mind blowing!
This is really interesting! I wondered about dragon/serpents associated with rivers and seas as confusion with eels, certainly some stories of these serpents make more sense if the creature is actually a fish. But your tails of African rain-serpents seem to at least in part, contradict that idea. Of course rainbows are associated with water/rain and also I've read that the Romans thought they drank water from the world. Another possible influence on dragon/serpent stories are comets which evoked a lot of fear and some recordings of comet sightings include enormous tails that stretched across the sky.
Fascinating! Another fantastic video. I like the way you provided some of the myths from different regions along with the statistical evidence on where and when they come from and the original myth as well as theories as to why evolution led us to developing these dragon stories. A really rich analysis of the topic, thank you for sharing your knowledge and putting in the hard work to produce such well crafted content. May your channel continue its meteoric rise!
Yes! More.... More! Dragon info. I loved your presentation. Your eyes light up as your share the Dragon stories. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing. 💖
Uktena (water Dragon) of the 'Cherokee' (AniYunwiya) had an Ulensuti (Red Crystal with inclusion) in the place of its' Third Eye. It brought the sacred 7-stem pipe to the 'Cherokee' warrior woman at the Healing Lake near Cherokee NC.
The origins of the dragon are fascinating. Id love to learn more about how the rain and river serpent evolved into a winged, fire breathing lizard creature
Here it is worth to mention that in ancient times sky was defined as sea. They sort of believed that world is hollow sphere (not actually flat). Serpents actually didn't fly, but swim in the sea above. But with greater understanding that world is actually on outside of sphere, it evolved into ability of flight.
A very, very naïve interpretation could be that the nose bleeds from the South African story got misinterpreted into being fire coming out of noses... 🤔
As to dragons, I believe that somewhere between the 65 million year old, 2000 pound water-dwelling Titanaboa of South America and the smaller but still huge, aquatic Green Anaconda of modern Brazil there must have been enormous aquatic snakes known to humans that have gone extinct in the last 75,000 years. The original inspirations for the myths perhaps.
Very useful knowledge. Interesting...Neat organization with the chapters, specific dragon types and detailed origin stories. Loved it. Keep up the good work!
This whole concept of the origin of the dragon myth and the explanation of why it is common across cultures around the world is just so incredible awesome and cool.
I'd like a video expanding further and more deeply into the original South African mythology surrounding the water snake thing. It seems really fascinating and central to the emergence of the conception of a Dragon.
Try looking up the inkanyamba. There's some public papers about it. It's a flying snake and a tornado that's all tied up with storms and bodies of water, and initiation within the water world. It's also acquired modern permutations like the iconography being influenced by Saffa Tolkien fans.
I would definitely like to know more about the snakes in the caves! I wonder, if humans are so predisposed to see snakes as a threat, why the rain snake would be seen as good or beneficial? Or if they saw it as an ambivalent or negative figure but one with power that could be used for human benefit through ritual?
Humans come from africa, lots of deadly snakes there. Thousands of generations of “[point to one type of snake] that dangerous” becomes “[points to ALL snakes] that dangerous”
I know, this video is 1 year old, I just found it now. You grabbed my attention straight away. 10 min into the video I went to check on your channel and you have a new subscriber. Now I will have to make time to watch everything. 🙂
This episode was ground-shaking for me. I was "always" curious to find out what was origin of a dragon myth phenomenon (the same for a griffin's) but the truth is more scary than expected...😱 Now I see a dragon, or let's say "a powerful beast", as a symbol of ever present mortal danger for humans from the world of animals (esp. snakes) - an immediate danger affecting our very basic instincts and even our genes - since MILLIONS of years of our (human/mammal) evolution. Then we were just prey... It's actually MUCH more original to our attention and instincts than "just" 75'000 years-old myth and rituals. Wow. PS. Connection to the biblical snake in the Paradise is powerful, too! 👍
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Oh wow. That Rainbow Serpent story is quite different from the one I knew growing up (the serpent was far less benevolent). That's an interesting difference. Which mob was your version from? I'd love to read more!
I found it in a paper on Australian Folk Tales, and then tweaked it a little to be more easily consumed in video format. I would love to hear other versions.
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@@Crecganford I'll see if I can locate the version I had (same basic premise - the serpent travelling across Australia created the gullies, rivers etc). But in the version I had the snake had swallowed a number of people and two hunters were sent after it. They killed the serpent (and the death throws created mountains of the thrown rocks etc). Then they opened the belly of the snake, but the people the serpent had swallowed had changed into the creatures of Australia (for some reason, rainbow lorikeets are sticking out), which were then released into the world; making humans the brothers and sisters of all the animals of Australia. I need to go revisit it. I'll see if I can't find the exact story and mob it's from.
I've definitely heard this version of the rainbow serpent before as well. Different versions of the rainbow serpent can be found across Australia. While often revered as a creator of the environment it has also been held in fear due to it being quite wrathful especially toward those who violate the law.
I am reminded of the two dragons in a pool under a hill that were discovered by Merlin, where Vortigern was attempting to build a fortress. You mentioned the association of underground dragons and water, and this recounting by Geoffrey of Monmouth supports your thesis. But I wonder what Geoffrey’s source was? Any clarification would be appreciated.
That's an interesting question, and one I hadn't considered other than as to be just the influence of "folklore" of the time, but perhaps I should look into the influences of the Arthur story more.
I would have never associated dragons with water because in my mind dragons are fire creatures that burn things and I was really impressed that statistical tools developed to study evolution could be used to analyze the different myths to determine a probable origin. My mind was completely blown! Thank you for sharing!
Dragons are basically wild elemental gods. There is lot of stories about gods turning into dragons as result of the corruption. Most notably Fafnir. Here it is worth to note that god opposing a dragon has commonly same attributes. As such it is possible that he also is a dragon, just in human form as more friendly to humans. Association with fire or poison, was popularized when dragons started being associated with evil. But originally they have lot more elements or even forms. For example Nicors are basically small fairy (spring/mist) dragons.
This is cool. And awesome sources too. Can you please also cites the source of the artworks next time? I see a few that I know the artists are still alive.
Funnily enough, despite having followed and watched videos in this channel for months, this is the first time I am *actually* drinking a cup of tea while watching this
I have always kived mythology even as i child i would be in the school libray learning greek and roman mythology. I am on a journey to find out more about these magnificent creatures and different cultures points of views. Plus im trying yo learn how to sraw and sculpt dragons as i am fascinated even more now that i have seen this video😊❤ Thank you so very much fir posting this..I'm totally hooked now more than ever😁
Great video Jon. Have you ever heard about the Druid belief & tales about Dragons in and around Britain and Wales? Little I've heard I found fascinating. Of course my sorce is a book by Douglas Monroe. Although he focuses upon Merlin and the boy Arthur, there are places where Dragons are mentioned. Love the work you are doing. Have a great day!
What sounds somewhat anachronistic is that the 75k years old snake brings rain to the people and helps with crop growth while the Natufians credited with inventing agriculture are said to be 15k years old. Was rainfall that important for hunter-gatherers who would get their drinking water from rivers and streams, or were they doing some wild gardening or so or reliant on wild plants which they were missing out on in times of drought? Edit: Or where there earlier shepherds who needed water for their animals?
That is an interesting question. I suspect the answer lies in the growing evidence that “hunter-gatherer” tribes, while not engaging in what we consider traditional agriculture, have been cultivating “food forests” for thousands of years. Some of these food forests can be shown to have been continually cultivated for thousands of years. So even if those ancient people would not have been planting crops in a manner we recognize as agriculture, they likely did have an understanding of the importance of water to life.
In tropical climates, getting less rain than usual is devastating to native plants which are used to getting rain nearly every day. Rain is more important to gatherers than farmers.
Hi Jon, another cracking episode. I have a couple of comments/observations 1. I loved the Rainbow Serpent myth. It was very poetic, almost biblical 2. Your comments about snakes being the earliest predators of mammals and it's effects on human psychology. Carl Sagan wrote a book many years ago called Dragons of Eden and one of its arguments was that dragon myths and the fear of snakes were a genetic/cultural memory of the dangers we faced in our early evolution 3. The finding that the dragon myth passed to south/central America via Polynesian migration seems to stack up with genetic studies of native south American tribes, even though the idea of Polynesian migration to south America causes problems for anthropology
Tremendous revelations. I've just rewatched this for the second time and feel so well informed now that many confusions of other myths now seem mucher clearer to me. Many thanks for this awesome pearl.
The Chinese Long started out as pigs in the neolithic, something we have the fortune of being able to ascertain because through the ages many designs carved in jade were standard for their time, with many artisans copying them for hundreds of years, so we can see talismans depicting pigs gradually grow longer, then circular or C-shaped, then start taking on traits of other animals (like scales and antlers) until they became the Long we see today.
Fascinating! I'd love to hear more about how European dragons become associated subsequently with fire? I know that, for example, the Chimera is sometimes considered a dragon, and the earlier versions of that myth strongly associate it with fire. Some ofbthis could be attributed to the evolution of the representation of the snakes poison (many mythological dragons have poisonous breath or spit venom) but I understand there to be some reference to forge fire in some proto-dragon mythology?
If dragon myths come from an ancestral/practical memory of snakes, imagine what "dragons" might be to other species... I've always wondered what an ant colony's mythology might be, or dolphins, or octopodes, parrots, elephants, or armadillos, etc.
I imagine in the future either whales or dolphins could gain the capability to communicate with humanity’s top biological researchers. We’ve studied their ability to communicate amongst themselves.
I was lucky enough to live my life right down the road from a dragon that was painted on the bluffs of the river by the American Indians who used to call this area home. Look it up, it’s called “The Piasa Bird”. Just outside of Alton, Illinois. And just upriver from the Indian mega-city of Cahokia.
The quadruped is interesting as it kind of resembles the Boar which is typically the height of the animal hierarchy in the Celtic belief system and we also have the Dragon/Serpent system too though the latter seems to follow a lot with infinite state (shedding of skin/rebirth) which is consequently why people like the gnostics ended up with the ouroboros and jormungandr is chasing his own tail causing chaos.
Thanks for this! I have always loved Dragons and was thrilled with the concept of being able to trace the myth motif back to Africa, 75,000 years ago. The comparison of the evolution of the myth with human migrations was really a light bulb moment for me. I loved it.
I love your content, your academic rigour is so cool, thanks! You investigated the dragon myth, tacked down its fascinating origin. But do you think that there is sometimes compelling evidence that the origin of some myth/tail is archetypal? If so would you explain this dichotomy or point me in the direction of a method or this discussion? Thanks again.
Thank you for your kind words. It is human nature to be scared of particular things, but the motif of a dragon almost certainly came the route I suggest due to so much commonality in the myth, there is just too much similarity to be an archetype.
If the story goes back 75k years, why isn't there earlier cave art depicting dragons? Suggested that it's a taboo to draw the dragon. But do modern versions of the story contain that taboo? That essential part of the story was everywhere until 6k years ago, then vanished in each of the different versions. Also hard to square with with South Africa example of the snake dragon. If that is the root and there is a taboo, why does it appear there? Don't want to go too hard against this episode (love the channel!), but this history is just unbelievable. Notice that it also requires the Australian version of the story to get to Pero and Mexico. There was contact between Polenesia and New World. But enough to displace the most important Aztec gods? That goes against the claim at the beginning of the video that says victorious cultures maintain their myths. Scattered contact is not enough to produce Quetzequatl, and we would be able to track conquest from Polynesia.
There is a rock carving in Khosian country in either Namibia or South Africa, or one of those countries, depicting a large snake and it's believed to be up to 70,000 years old. I don't know if it was ever confirmed, though. I saw it a few years back.
@@therealdarklizzy Yeah that would be absolutely wild. Looked it up and it was reported, but have since seen plenty of articles by academics discussing the first art, none of which mention this. Must be some dating or interpretation issue, where it is at least not a home run.
This is so amazing! I've shared it with several people. My only hesitation regards the presentation of what I would call a false dichotomy between taking a Jungian archetypal view on one hand vs. simple myth migration patterns on the other. The two are not so mutually exclusive as we are led to believe. I agree with all that was said regarding the possible origins of dragon myths in our instinctual fear of snakes. But keep in mind that one way that the Jungian view of archetypes has been expressed is to say that they are instincts clothed with thought forms. Also make a distinction between mundane origins (eg, fear of snakes) of a motif vs. the motif's persostence. The potency of the serpent as a symbol to represent human drives which can destroy a person (eg, greed, hatred, delusion, chaos, etc) is a fact which can guarantee the persistence of serpent/dragon symbolism. Look at it this way: In becoming familiar with meanings in one's own nighttime dreams, certain dream sequences can obviously be traced back to specific events from the days prior to the dream. And yet, simultaneously, that same dream sequence can also be seen as symbolically representing certain inner dialogues. In fact, that dream sequence which has its cause in some mundane occurrence from days prior may persist as a recurring dream because of how well it reflects inner dialogues and struggles.
Thank you so much! I would have never thought about a common origin due to European dragons being more obviously fire & earth dragons. Many people are astonished when I tell them, there are African dragon myth & tales, particularly popular in our Southern region (Lesotho, Eswatini & Zimbabwe included) - matter of fact essential in the indigenous religions - South Africa is my other home country besides Germany (Japan merely partial ancestry) - so I have been fascinated with dragon /lintwurm tales from early childhood. I find them fascinating from all over the world. Actually, the Southern region & parts of West Africa have dragon /giant water snake legends, as many rivers and lakes belong to a particular river or lake. They were the guardians of the water, at times demanding human sacrifce, but only caused floods or droughts when people polluted or wasted the water. But times have changed. Nonetheless, the stories remain. Though due to Christianity & Islam most people distant themselves from it because they feel uncomfortable about this aspect from their past, others keep silent because they want to protect their heritage. There are sacred issues involved. Many details are not to be found in books because they would only give researchers, missionaries vague stories & versions, also due to the fear of being labelled superstitious, naive & gullible s it happened unfortunately, so much in the past -
I really love this video. Awesome research. I would love a video on how the zodiac signs were "created" across the cultures, and where their story began. I believe that the dragon was the milky way, btw.
Thank you for watching and commenting. A few people have requested videos about the Zodiac signs, and so I will add that to my To Do list. A great idea!
Just discovered your channel; very cool discussion. And thank you for the sensitivity you showed in describing the Rainbow Serpent and the stories (The Dreaming) of my ancestors. Snakes are an enduringly important motif amongst my Grandmother’s mob; beings to respect rather than to (simply) fear. (And I am watching/ writing with my pet python looped lazily across my shoulders.) We also have real dragons in Australia; genus Pogona, the dragon lizards, which according to my mob are named Dragons because they seldom are seen drinking water, despite living in arid and desert environments. They do actually drink, but in most cases the dew from chilly desert nights collects on their rough scaly heads and is directed by their ‘spines’ to the corners of their mouths. It is extra cool that you clearly work hard on accurate pronunciation. You have a new subscriber.
This was such a beautiful message. I am also reminded of the serpent that moves across the earth activating different earth chakras, I am unsure of the origins of this story. It is said in this current era it is entering/has entered the chakra in South America after spending many years in the Indian chakra. It is one suggestion that the moving of this great earth serpent is the cause of the upheaval humanity is experiencing now. This resonates with several points you made, particularly with the Australian story of the rainbow serpent creating rivers and mountains and the great power it holds in impacting the whole earth and humanity, very interesting! Thank you for your time and energy into researching and corroborating data, and your embracing of all cultural views spanning time and space. You tell the stories wonderfully; an orator of our time. infinite blessings on your work brother and team
Between this and the Oldest Creation myth videos, I've been brainstorming a creation myth to put into my D&D stuff that is both a scientifically accurate (as in it begins as dust condensing into planets and whatnot), but also personifies and gives rise to the original gods relevant to the characters (Terra [Earth], Sola [sun], and Luna [Moon]). Terra would then create giants and dragons as a kind of original immune system to fight invaders and order the world to make it livable to other life. Thank you for your hard work, it is most appreciated, I love learning about myths and legends!
Crecganford, you showed a map of the spread quite a few times and I was really curious with the pacific island section. Because I’m not sure if it’s was coloured then same due to synchronous development or, is the pacific island and South American myth linked. The possibility for sustained contact and even a migration or two has been really been capturing my attention for the last 2 years. But the genealogy just never seems to work out, and the archeology of South America rarely hints to sustained pacific contact and migrations. But there’s frequent hints of linguistic links, is this a sign of a mythological link between the pacific and South American cultures?
Check out the Australian myths of the red-haired giants. I don't recall the particular video, but they speak of seafaring peloponnesians following the Pacific headwinds from Australia to Hawaii and then on to North America. Similar artifacts have been found throughout the Pacific Rim
It’s possible. I’m pretty sure the Easter islands and South America were connected, and it’s not hard to see as there’s an ocean current going between them
Having backpacked on both sides of the Pacific, you notice the similarities of plants of New Zealand and Patagonia, as well as the Galapagos Islands. Many of the(flying) birds are similar enough to each other as well. The Polynesian peoples traveling east may have noticed it as well, possibly reinforcing some material/resource based cultural stories.
Fascinating! The most interesting part of this video is how we can be statistically confident to a very high degree that the dragon myth started in one place and time: 75kya in South Africa, as opposed to its spontaneously beginning in multiple locations: independently due to dragons being a Jungian archetype. However, the explanation for the dragon's persistence is curious, in so far as it does, indeed, sound quite like a Jungian archetype. Perhaps dragons started as an archetype in South Africa, spread via the phylogenetic analogous process, and its staying power comes from its archetypal features?
I wonder if it’s not an either/or but rather a yes and situation. The myth originates, spreads and pops up repeatedly as representative of power in some respect.
Nope the "serpent" myth started in the garden and it's iconography can be found around ancient cultures mythology like Egyptians to Aztecs... Do NOT believe the out of Africa "woke-science=falsity" the cradle of civilization was always by the Euphrates and Tigris were Babylon/Mesopotamia was, which coincidentally according to history is pre-egypt... Dragons were renamed around 1841 to Dinosaurs... They never breathed fire, some flew, as a medieval monk said in his book on dragons "They are not mystical beasts just animals" cannot find the name of the book atm... It is one of those hard things to find that runs contrary to what people believe... chimera = antediluvian animal nephilim "they sinned with all flesh"... "epic of gilgamesh"
@@hans-joachimbierwirth4727 Oh there is a common source "powers and principalities" and "the serpent in the garden" temoting eve with the "fruit of the knowledge of good and evil"... "book of enoch/genisis" They came down and took wives for themselves and begot children = nephilim = giant... Aztec/Pre-Eygyption Both have Cyclopean masonry/Architecture with big blocks that fit together perfectly yet half a world apart... e.g. they divided the land among themselves Poseidon = Atlantis ?... There were giant in the earth in those days and also after... Both sites have paintings or stories of large leaders and the normal people maybe a quarter of the size... The smaller were required to worship the nephilim and their fathers the fallen... this time is explained in greek myth titans, and the hindu "golden age" but it was not a golden age it was a dystopian nightmare... Have you studied pagan religions, all have their symbology/symbolism ? Have you studied Giant myths worldwide... Because I have looked into all that and more and one thing that is common is the serpent especially in the "religion" or in the case of Egypt on the "brow of the ruler"... Do you even understand biblical symbolism...
Wonderful to learn something new about my country South Africa. It has also made me wonder if this could have influenced the tale of Adam, Eve and the snake. Thank you so much for these insights.
Am watching this video as part of a 'Crecganford' binge :) Would love to hear an analysis of the Australian indigenous peoples' Myths. Thanks for the entertaining education, from 🇦🇺. Happy New Year to you 🙃
Is there a particular dragon you would like to know more about?
The oldest name for a Dragon I have come across is the Sumerian "Ushumgal", Ush-Um-Gal = Death-Design-Great.
Fáfnir
Have you heard of the Jibboa of the Huni Kuin people?
@@jamiek8123 The Purple Dragon?
uktena, apparently a horned serpent from cherokee myth that breaths poison and has a hypnotic shining gem on its head
im wondering how legitimate this myth is because it has so many similarities to the slaying of fafnir:
digging a trench, hitting its weak spot, destroying its heart, poison breath
You had my attention with Dragons, but you blew my mind with that 75,000 year date and tracing the story along the lines of human migration. Love this story.
It was a work of syncretism. Dragons, for the Ancient Greeks, were merely snakes or serpents, but as what we call dragons today, they are not real "dragons", they are called like that because the Christian missionaries had the goal of converting people by manufacturing similarities, like "jotum = giants, like the Nephilim or Goliath".
I mean when the aborigines reached Australia there were giant lizards 5x the size of a Komodo dragon who could eat a person whole.
I imagine it may have paid a part especially as that was around 100,000 to 70,000 years ago
Called megalania
Problem today they use fake science on dinosaurs to deny human beings were of a larger proportion in the stories we think we relate to. Adam was a giant. Some say Golgata is his skull.
@@James-sk4db as well as large crocs and constrictors that likely added to the legends. Also, considering that many of the oldest dragon legends were snake like and created storms it's possible those ancient people equated serpentine lightning streaks in the sky as those very dragons.
I'd be interested in learning about the origins behind Ancient Greece's large trove of unique, hybrid monsters, such as the gorgons, the manticore, and the chimera.
And the many headed Hydra.
@@DeanBatha Which isn't a hybrid monster.... you know, a hybrid of multiple things, with parts of multiple creatures. The minotaur might be one of the simpler one, being part human, part ox.
Hybrids are pretty common in Africa and Asia too I think, like Eqypt and India, just not always evil or dangerous
Egypt
While conducting research of my own, I have found some links between Greece and Egypt and this went beyond the Sphinx. So if we trace Egypt back, might we suggest the Soumerians? Or any people around the Mesopotamia really.
Facinating, as someone who is also interested in paleoanthropology as well, the thought that our dragon stories are connected to our "snake aversion" going back to our early primate past is thought provoking. The more we learn about ourselves and our past the more connected we are to that distant past. The connecting of the Dragon mottif to stories in South Africa around 75,000 years ago is .... (running out of adjectives here) mind bogling. Thank you for your videos, I enjoy them hugely, wonderful stuff.
Thank you for watching and you're kind words.
Dragons, or dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible. Have you checked out that history book.
@@joshakins4923history? A true history book wouldn't contradict itself.
@@joshakins4923that's not a history book that's mythology fan fiction
As someone that has worked professionally with dinosaur bones, teeth etc, it's never been lost on me how amazing and scary some of the dinosaurs appear. I found it interesting that in some of these myths the dragons lived underground. To early humans it may not have been a big leap to think these creatures in the ground (dinosaurs) were dragons or creatures from the netherworld. Very good and informative video. 👍🦖
Or possibly the dinosaurs are the bones of the dragons
As much as I love Dragons, that is where my money lies. Early humans found dinosaur fossil, not knowing anything about them(i.e. Time frame) stories of Dragons started, and grew, changed over time with re-telling, until what we call modern Dragons finally emerged.
@@rianmacdonald9454 I would still leave the door open to dragons in a way. There may have been some sort of dinosaur relative that existed during human times. Just because we've never found a much later dragon/dinosaur, doesn't mean they never existed. They could have been a true rarity even. Never say never. 👍
@@Montana_horseman Except for fire-breathing dragons. There's just no way nature would create such an animal, and the ability to breath fire isn't seen anywhere else in the current or past natural world.
The video from the Thunderbolts Project, "Symbols of an Alien Sky" has the best take on the possible origin of dragon myths, claiming they were plasma events when some of the planets were much closer to Earth. But I'm sure exposed dinosaur fossils from the past had to play a more than minor role in all this...
“There’s only one story. There’s only one person in that story. And that person is you.” This channel does an excellent job explaining how the character and locations change in that story depending on the culture telling it. Here’s a hint for aspiring writers. It’s not the writer’s job to come up with a story. Their job is to keep the audience from realizing they are hearing the same thing over and over again. Writer’s block exist for writers that haven’t figured this out yet. Thanks for the content! I look forward to future videos.
What about the idea that a river looks a lot like a snake? Rivers were super important to early humans due to being a source of fresh water. The association with rain in a lot of the tales also seems to bear that out. If you climb a hill and look at a big river valley, you might think "a massive snake came through here and left the water behind". P.s. i love the channel, thank you for making this content!
I'm sure rivers did provide some influence, but the remnants of that motif isn't clear in the mythology we've been left with. Although I do hint at it in the Australian Myth, where the snake carves out rivers.
From a helicopter, not from standing on the shore
Rainbow serpent is arguably a river
My horses will often react strongly to the moving sunlit wavelets on a body of water as if it were a snake or dragon. They seem more afraid of snakes than anything - which gives credence to the hypotheses in this fine video.
@@SoulDelSol which part of “if you climb a hill” did you miss?
In brazil we have a dragon myth called Boitatá, it has a snake like apperance that expels fire and eats the eyes of people, is seen as a guardian of the forests
I hope it will appear to those who destroy our beautiful amazon, and teach them money is not the real god of our planet.
Brasileiros por aqui, eae
Brazil is the one place I'd expect dragons to come from. Y'all have those HUGE Anacondas !
I'm glad your channel exists to discuss these myths in detail. Too long UA-cam's been infested with wannabe experts that speak very dismissively about the myths and their origins. It's truly a refreshing experience each time I click one of your videos.
Thank you
I dunno how people can’t seem to tie together the whole dinosaur thing with the concept of dragons. Makes it make even more sense
People do all the time. There's books written about it. It's even in the wiki.
Dragons make much more sense and also explains why children are so drawn to them, they still have memories. I'm getting mine back.
@ right on. We all have dragons buried in our memory. Mine resemble the Chinese and South American theme of serpent style from what my soul remembers
@@vishuddhavibes, When I interact with the sky Dragons I remember I am one of them. I often wonder how many of us are Dragons having a human experience. I do know others I think are Dragons too. Are you? Much Love
@@edie4321 I believe that I align completely with what you’re saying. I remember flying. I remember great power. I remember being the color green and blue. I remember the sky. Gosh you just made me feel 10x less crazy
Thank you for the great videos. I went to college in the 90’s during the peak of the anti-diffusionism movement. I use that term because calling my professors regionalists downplays their actual agenda. Any mention of Joseph Campbell and his theories about the interconnections between myths from various cultures was greeted with derision. I always felt that Campbell was onto something and that the various myths and ideas must stretch far back into deep time during the human migrations. It’s nice to see that computers and statistical analysis of these myths is showing that Campbell’s core ideas about their interconnections and diffusion were correct.
That's a shame that they didn't encourage you to leverage your curiosity, and thank you for watching and taking the time to comment.
The first form of the Bible was written in 325BC, 80 years before the Antikythera mechanism, and was called the Vaticanus Graecus, Son of the Divine Serpent, a reference to Fomalhaut, which is shaped like the all seeing eye, in Aquarius, the sign associated with John the Baptist, who was a Setian, the root word of Satan. Just as israel is the Phoenician word for Saturn, or El, Fruit of Isis and Ra.
In the Second Century AD Astrologer Vettori Valentinus used the Vaticanus Graecus to construct a lunar zodiac of 13 months, this correlates to the 18.6/ 19 year Metonic Calendar, found in the earliest known ancient temples, the Bible, Antikythera mechanism, New Grange and the Bru na Boinne, the Chaldeans, Egyptians, Assyrians, Celts, Phoenicians, and inscribed into the Golden Enoch Horns of the Magi, the Eunuch Druid Priests of Cybel, or Kythera, the "Great Mother", (who also has 216 names) in Germany and France. A Druid took 19 years to train, and the Phoenix was associated with 19 flames.
TLDR; the ancient metric system of time used by the builders of the Megalithic sites all over the world directly correlates to the Astrological Zodiac and allows for the surveying of the entire globe.
It's worth noting our current system has 8,640 seconds in a day, just as the sun is 864,000 miles wide. Enoch also wrote 36,525 scrolls, which is 365.25 times 100, the Egyptian number of perfection, which allowed them to calculate things to the second decimal place. The Great Pyramid is a Calendar, based on the Metonic Cycle and the Zodiac, hence the association of Osiris with Orion, and Pleiades Isis, atop the back of Taurus, just as the Phoenician Princess Europa, who rode the Bull. The entire Mediterranean region was also mapped out according to key constellations, marked by these Megalithic structures, which themselves encode these numbers
Other names for Isis include Semiramus, Aphrodite, Europa, Kythera, Cybele, and Cylene.
The Byblos Baal, or Book of Baal is the Phoenician Almanac, a coded book of Astrological cycles used by the Priest Class of Egypt; the Phoenicians, to navigate the oceans. Phoenicians, Celts, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Egyptians and Jews all celebrated their New Year in September, the 7th month, the Sunsign of Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer, associated with the healing Gods, and marked by the first New Moon in the 7th month after the start of the Zodiac in Easter, when Ophiuchus is the East Star. In September the East star is Orion, aka Osiris, aka Set, Lord of the Dead. Hence the Aleph, and the Zayim, Alpha and Omega. It's also the Birthday of Jesus, and when he said he would return, at the end of the Age. It's reversed to keep the code secret, and written in metaphor so no one could know what was contained therein.
It's an Enigma Code, literally.
The Metonic cycle, in chronology, is a period of 19 years in which there are 235 lunations, or synodic months, after which the Moon's phases recur on the same days of the solar year, or year of the seasons. The cycle was discovered by Meton (fl. 432 bc), an Athenian astronomer.
The Pyramid is also 230 metres square, or 235 Megalithic Yards.
En-men-dur-ana (also Emmeduranki) of Sippar was an ancient Sumerian king, whose name appears in the Sumerian King List as the seventh pre-dynastic king of Sumer. He was said to have reigned for 43,200 years
His name means "chief of the powers of Dur-an-ki", while "Dur-an-ki" in turn means "the meeting-place of heaven and earth" (literally "bond of above and below") Arc of the Covenant
There are also 86,400 seconds in a 24 hr day. 24 minutes is 1440 seconds, times 100 gives us 144,000
A list of ten kings was composed in Greece c. 280 BC by the Babylonian priest Berossos, and their reign totals 432,000 years. In the Icelandic Poetic Edda it is said that there are 540 doors in Odin's heavenly hall of warriors
Five hundred doors and forty there are
I ween in Valhalls walls;
Eight hundred fighters through each door fare
Where to war the Wolf they go.
The war with the Wolf was the recurrent battle of the gods and anti-gods at the end of each cosmic round. Here we have 540 x 800 = 432,000. In the Mahabharata and Puranic texts, the cosmic cycle of four world ages numbers 12,000 divine years, one year corresponding to 360 human years for a total of 12,000 x 360 = 4,320,000 human years. This is broken down into yugas as follows:
Kali = 432,000 years or 1200 x 360
Dwarpa = 864,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 2
Treta = 1,296,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 3
Satya = 1,728,000 years or 1200 x 360 x 4
The number 432,000 has been found in Europe (1100 AD), India( very ancient, and 400 BC), Mesopotamia (c 300 BC)in reference to a cosmic eon.
At the moment of the Spring equinox (March 21) the heavens are never quite in the same position they were the year before, since there is an annual lag of 50 seconds which in the course of 72 years amounts to 1 degree (50" x 72 = 3600" = 60' = 1 degree) and in 2160 years amounts to 30 degrees or one sign of the zodiac.
For instance, today the sun stands in Aquarius at the Spring equinox, in 1976 the sun stood in Pisces and in the time of Christ it was in Aries. This slippage is known as the precession of the equinox. Copernicus in 1526 AD calculated this same figure. We note also that the lag is 50 seconds/year or 1 degree in 72 years, 30 degrees in 2160 years, 360 degrees in 25,920 years or one complete cycle of the zodiac. But 25,920 divided by 60 gives 432. The ancient Sumerian calendar had five-day weeks or 72 x 5 = 360 days per year. But 360 x 72 = 25,920.
The integer 1200 represents the sum of the years in India for a cosmic cycle. Now
1200 x 201 = 241,200
1200 x 380 = 456,000
1200 x 360 = 432,000
These numbers correspond to the Sumerian tablet list of ten kings who ruled for a total of 456,00 years, a second tablet which lists only eight of these kings with a total of 241,200 years, and Berossos' list.
The Book of Genesis lists ten patriarchs from Adam to Noah and the Flood totalling 1656 years. In the Jewish calendar one year is 365 days. In 23 years plus 5 leap year days we have 8400 days or 1200 seven-day weeks. If we multiply 1200 x 72 we get 86,400 or the number of Jewish seven-day weeks in 1656 (23 x 72) years. Since the Babylonian calendar year was composed of 72 five-day weeks, then in 432,000 days there are 86,400 Babylonian five-day weeks. Then in 432,000 days there are 86,400 Babylonian five-day weeks (432,000/5). Thus the Bible concurs with the other lists as well.
The earth's axis wobble that causes the precession of the equinoxes is given as 25,920 years. Divided by the ancient number called "soss," 60, which was used in calculations, results in 432.
The Greek Ages also bear a close correspondence to the four Yugas of the Hindus: Krita-Yuga, Treta-Yuga, Dvapara-Yuga, and Kali-Yuga. Their method of calculation is described by Ullamudeian as follows:
"In each of the 12 signs there are 1800 minutes; multiply this number by 12 you have 21600; e.g. 1800 X 12=21600. Multiply this 21600 by 80 and it will give 1,728,000, which is the duration of the first age, called Krita-Yuga."
If the same number be multiplied by 60, it will give 1,296,000, the years of the second age, Treta-Yuga. The same number multiplied by 40 gives 864,000, the length of the third age, Dvapara-Yuga. The same multiplied by 20 gives 432,000, the fourth age, Kali-Yuga." (It will be noted that these multipliers decrease in inverse ratio to the Pythagorean tetractys: 1, 2, 3, and 4.)
The Essenes studied the Mysteries of Pythagoras.
His name means Heart (Bel) of the Serpent.
The cycle of the Phoenix encodes the astrological calendar by which they removed 3 days every 630 years. This was expressed in a Pythagorean Triangle of Dimensions 216 by 630 by 666.
6 x 6 x 6 is 216, there are 2160 years in an astrological age, and the Moon is 2160 miles in diameter. The solar metonic calendar using 60 6 day weeks produces 1 extra day every 216 years. There are also 216 Megalithic seconds in a day, and 216 letters in the name of God
216 times 2 is 432, times 60 is 25,920
@@uncannyvalley2350 no
@@godskingssages4724 actually, yes
@@uncannyvalley2350 get back on your medication
Two interesting Native American creatures are the Piasa and Avanyu. There was a large painting/carving of a Piasa on the cliffs above either the Mississippi or Missouri River. The Avanyu were lake and river serpents that often fought with the Thunderbirds.
I was thinking of the Mishipeshu at several points in this video. It shares similar narrative dna with the Piasa.
Piasa is at Alton IL, north of STL, near where the Missouri and Mississippi meet. It’s 35 minutes from me.
@@HellsCowBoy666 interesting, thank you.
@@Paddyhammer444 I see, what part of the country is that from, from what people?
YES, and if you want further debunking videos 🙃 to ponder on this subject, check out MudFossil University Roger explains the biology of earth and humans and dragons.
Happy hunting the TRUTH
I had to hit up that Patreon. I look forward to each new video. I'm glad to support this great work, and can't wait for what's yet to come. Thanks so much.
Thank you for your support, it is very much appreciated
Witnessing a tornado or water spout in person is truly an awe inspiring thing. It definitely brings up the image of a dragon destroying and bringing water at the same time. In Japan, one word for tornado is the same word for dragon. I've consumed many presentations on the origins of the dragon myth and have never heard anyone even bring up the tornado as a possible inspiration for the dragon myth.
I really love that Australian creation myth! It sounds, in the respect for the land and living things, much like the Old Stories from my NA great grandmother! ❤️❤️
I saw a video about dragons so I clicked it. Found a voice that I could fall asleep too in the most respectful way possible. Very knowledgeable and insightful. You've gained a subscriber. 👍
Thank you so much.
And the origin of those Chinese dragons is that each of them started as a ruler who later in their story becomes a dragon. One myth even describes the yellow dragon being made by combining animal aspects that represented different clans at the time.
Yeah, dragons are just metaphysical imagery to dynastic families.
Bloody hell subscriber count has shot up a fair bit I knew you would be getting the notice your content deserves before long enough. I think I joined when you had like maybe 4,000 subs. Nice to see your channel growing congrats It probably has been jumping up all the time but I hadn't actually seen you were getting close to 100,000👌
Fascinating video to watch. I've been interested in dragon myths for decades. Living in Australia, I loved hearing about the Rainbow Snake. I knew about the Chinese dragons being the source of the 4 rivers in China. I I would love to know about why Chinese dragons became the protectors of emperors and people and were considered as "good dragons', whilst Western dragons developed fire and became the "bad dragons. Finding out how much dragons were involved with water in this video has blown my mind. Thanks for making it.
Thank you for watching, and in my next video I will try and explain the good dragon/bad dragon change. I hope you watch it.
You have been a delight to listen to whilst I'm at work and to hear so much about dragons and their myths and origins has been a pleasure!
Thank you so much.
Many thanks for this deeply enlightening video, drawing on a large body of research into the long, long history of our beliefs. Please make future videos about some aspects of how we view snakes and dragons - as you said, the water dragon myth, the Paleolithic snake rituals, and maybe a bit more detail about our instincts upon encountering a snake. This is amazing. Please keep going.
I'm Australian and it was great to hear you tell the story of the Rainbow Serpent, Jon! I have to agree with you about the human focus on snakes. There are so many very dangerous snakes in Australia! I live in Mindanao Philippines now, and in five years I have lived here I've only seen one snake, and it was very small and very dead. My Filipina wife here is absolutely terrified of snakes. In Mindanao we do have the King Cobra, Ophiophagus Hannah. In Mindanao Cebuano it is called "banakon". In Mindanao there is the story of the Bakunawa, the moon eating dragon. You might like to look that one up! The story is "Bakunawa and the Seven Moons". By the way, Bakunawa was a great serpent who lived in the ocean!
That sounds great!
Would it be that over the centuries snakes were persecuted/hunted into extinction? On another note, i would be intrigued to hear wether there is a connection between the rainbow serpent and Quetzalcoatl .
@@senseeman It's possible. When you consider the myth of the Rainbow Serpent is about 10,000 years old, and human occupation in the Americas is at least that old, however I haven't seen any evidence.
There’s also the rainbow serpent festival in Victoria. You’ll see more than dragons there
@@kattmazi1934 Sounds good mate! A bit far away from Mindanao where I live now!
This was so fascinating! Thank you for your hard work making these videos. I felt so sad when you said how much we've distanced ourselves from the thinking of our ancestors by forgetting/not remembering their stories. It really makes me want to learn more. I would love to learn more about the dragon cave ritual in France you mentioned where the snakes were sacrificed! I haven't watched all your videos yet, so not sure if you already addressed this in another video.
Thank you for your kind words.
Please do a video about the snake-beheading ritual! That sounds extremely fascinating.
Wonderful work, as always.
It's on the To Do list
I've recently found your channel, and have always been fascinated by the origins of myths. I'm sharing these videos with others. Thanks so much for these great videos.
Hi! I’ve been a fan of your videos for a year now, they’ve gotten me through some hard times and never fail to fascinate me, that’s all i wanted to say, you have a lot of loyal fans, me 100% included.
Thank you so much, your kind words are appreciated.
I've always wondered if the aspect of the Dragon being a reptile that has the ability to fly, not to mention that many older Dragons have FEATHERS, is due to the fact that it is a composite creature that combines snakes with that OTHER major predator of early mammals and hominids... Birds, specifically birds of prey that would swoop down and snatch away a small mammal, particularly their children, and carry them off over the horizon or into the darkness of night.
This may also indicate the origins of very primitive morality and child-rearing, where what NOT to do in a herd boils down to "dont anger that slithering thing in the water or that flying thing in the air... it'll getcha! And whatever you are doing at the time when it does is a thing we should stop doing altogether"
Just some shower thoughts that popped up whilst watching this.
I wouldn't say dragons can fly. As etheral beings can essentially swim through the ether. Like a fish. When you look at ealier ancient chinese dragons, you can see the fish like aspects of dragons.
or dinosaurs, since it's been found recently that a lot of them were feathered. Fits way more than birds.
One could argue that "boogie man myths" like the dragon are evolutionary traits themselves that humans have developed. Societies that developed these stories were perhaps more protective of their young than ones who didn't have them, which could explain why the myth became so widespread.
@@Yarblocosifilitico people back then would not have know that, so I am not sure why that would apply to the peoples of the past
Birds also attack snakes. Imagine seeing that from a distance, with poor vision.
I've never clicked a video faster, absolutely love your content 👍
Edit: these kind of videos where they show how there were many prehistoric religions or myths that influenced even modern-day culture and humanity in general over the millennia feels like esoteric knowledge almost, like once you know it you can start to see it in every modern-day religion and it just makes everything click together you know? It makes me feel like the natural evolution of all religions would have eventually been towards Nature in general if that makes sense, like if the Abrahamic religions hadn't essentially taken over half the world and the influenced religions had continued evolving instead of dying out. Sorry if this sounds like a ramble XD
18:55 I would like to hear more about the ritual. Thank you so much for your amazing channel!
That was awesome! I've watched many Crecganford videos and loved them all. I've learned so much about these old myths and stories. I think this video might be my favorite! 75000 years is mind blowing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is really interesting! I wondered about dragon/serpents associated with rivers and seas as confusion with eels, certainly some stories of these serpents make more sense if the creature is actually a fish. But your tails of African rain-serpents seem to at least in part, contradict that idea. Of course rainbows are associated with water/rain and also I've read that the Romans thought they drank water from the world. Another possible influence on dragon/serpent stories are comets which evoked a lot of fear and some recordings of comet sightings include enormous tails that stretched across the sky.
Fascinating video. I’d love any additional in-depth analysis of any of its aspects.
Thank you, and I have made a video on the Paleolithic snakes found in Europe. I hope you watch that.
Fascinating! Another fantastic video. I like the way you provided some of the myths from different regions along with the statistical evidence on where and when they come from and the original myth as well as theories as to why evolution led us to developing these dragon stories. A really rich analysis of the topic, thank you for sharing your knowledge and putting in the hard work to produce such well crafted content. May your channel continue its meteoric rise!
And thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is appreicated.
Yes! More.... More! Dragon info. I loved your presentation. Your eyes light up as your share the Dragon stories. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing. 💖
Fascinating topic. And your ability to switch between providing information and telling stories makes your videos a real joy to watch.
Thank you
Uktena (water Dragon) of the 'Cherokee' (AniYunwiya) had an Ulensuti (Red Crystal with inclusion) in the place of its' Third Eye. It brought the sacred 7-stem pipe to the 'Cherokee' warrior woman at the Healing Lake near Cherokee NC.
The origins of the dragon are fascinating. Id love to learn more about how the rain and river serpent evolved into a winged, fire breathing lizard creature
I will try and get around to make a video about that one day, but it may be some time away.
Here it is worth to mention that in ancient times sky was defined as sea. They sort of believed that world is hollow sphere (not actually flat). Serpents actually didn't fly, but swim in the sea above. But with greater understanding that world is actually on outside of sphere, it evolved into ability of flight.
A very, very naïve interpretation could be that the nose bleeds from the South African story got misinterpreted into being fire coming out of noses... 🤔
As to dragons, I believe that somewhere between the 65 million year old, 2000 pound water-dwelling Titanaboa of South America and the smaller but still huge, aquatic Green Anaconda of modern Brazil there must have been enormous aquatic snakes known to humans that have gone extinct in the last 75,000 years. The original inspirations for the myths perhaps.
I agree. I don't think such widespread tales stem from simple over exaggerations of modern day sized snakes
Opium smoking Jesus freaks thousands of years ago come across petrified dinosaur bones would do it
One of many things that are no longer slithering in this plane anymore
Good point, who knows what fossils will turn up, but also the African Python is massive and one of the most agressive constrictors.
It's more simple: the "universal dragon" is an artificial, more modern thing.
Very useful knowledge. Interesting...Neat organization with the chapters, specific dragon types and detailed origin stories. Loved it. Keep up the good work!
Finally! The dragon myth origin video I’ve been searching for all these years!
I'm glad I could help!
Another very interesting video. Hard to think we're still telling stories based on tales so old. Fascinating. Thank you.
Would love to hear more about primitive snake rituals. Love your videos, always an instant click when I see a new one. Keep up the good work
Thank you for your kind words
I've always been interested in dragons (in an admittedly casual way), so hearing that you do this kinda stuff for a living is super cool!
Thank you for watching.
18:09 I hope you talk more about all this stuff! AWESOME CONTENT! This is my second of your vids... I cant wait to see more. Good luck!
This whole concept of the origin of the dragon myth and the explanation of why it is common across cultures around the world is just so incredible awesome and cool.
I'd like a video expanding further and more deeply into the original South African mythology surrounding the water snake thing. It seems really fascinating and central to the emergence of the conception of a Dragon.
Try looking up the inkanyamba. There's some public papers about it. It's a flying snake and a tornado that's all tied up with storms and bodies of water, and initiation within the water world. It's also acquired modern permutations like the iconography being influenced by Saffa Tolkien fans.
Sounds a lot like Enki!
Another amazing history channel to binge watch
Thank you so much.
I would definitely like to know more about the snakes in the caves!
I wonder, if humans are so predisposed to see snakes as a threat, why the rain snake would be seen as good or beneficial? Or if they saw it as an ambivalent or negative figure but one with power that could be used for human benefit through ritual?
Thank you for watching, I will definitely make a video about the ritual.
Humans come from africa, lots of deadly snakes there. Thousands of generations of “[point to one type of snake] that dangerous” becomes “[points to ALL snakes] that dangerous”
@@Crecganford Please do, this is fascinating and you seem to enjoy sharing your knowledge.
@@HellsCowBoy666 Right, but at some point, the dragon became positive in China or something, which is weird
Answer is: we clearly aren't predesposed to see snakes as a threat at all.
I applaud the amount of research you put in
Thank you, I do endeavor to make sure I try and go academically deeper than other channel's content.
I know, this video is 1 year old, I just found it now. You grabbed my attention straight away. 10 min into the video I went to check on your channel and you have a new subscriber. Now I will have to make time to watch everything. 🙂
Thank you so much, your kind words are appreciated.
Great stuff! So happy to have discovered your channel. Thanks!
And I’m happy you’re watching the videos too!
This episode was ground-shaking for me. I was "always" curious to find out what was origin of a dragon myth phenomenon (the same for a griffin's) but the truth is more scary than expected...😱
Now I see a dragon, or let's say "a powerful beast", as a symbol of ever present mortal danger for humans from the world of animals (esp. snakes) - an immediate danger affecting our very basic instincts and even our genes - since MILLIONS of years of our (human/mammal) evolution. Then we were just prey...
It's actually MUCH more original to our attention and instincts than "just" 75'000 years-old myth and rituals. Wow.
PS. Connection to the biblical snake in the Paradise is powerful, too! 👍
Oh wow. That Rainbow Serpent story is quite different from the one I knew growing up (the serpent was far less benevolent). That's an interesting difference. Which mob was your version from? I'd love to read more!
I found it in a paper on Australian Folk Tales, and then tweaked it a little to be more easily consumed in video format. I would love to hear other versions.
@@Crecganford I'll see if I can locate the version I had (same basic premise - the serpent travelling across Australia created the gullies, rivers etc). But in the version I had the snake had swallowed a number of people and two hunters were sent after it. They killed the serpent (and the death throws created mountains of the thrown rocks etc). Then they opened the belly of the snake, but the people the serpent had swallowed had changed into the creatures of Australia (for some reason, rainbow lorikeets are sticking out), which were then released into the world; making humans the brothers and sisters of all the animals of Australia. I need to go revisit it. I'll see if I can't find the exact story and mob it's from.
I've definitely heard this version of the rainbow serpent before as well. Different versions of the rainbow serpent can be found across Australia. While often revered as a creator of the environment it has also been held in fear due to it being quite wrathful especially toward those who violate the law.
Glad I stumbled across your channel! Looking forward to watching more of your videos!
this is my first visit to your channel & just want to say thank you for such an excellent video!!
Thank you very much for watching it, and I hope you like other videos here.
I am reminded of the two dragons in a pool under a hill that were discovered by Merlin, where Vortigern was attempting to build a fortress. You mentioned the association of underground dragons and water, and this recounting by Geoffrey of Monmouth supports your thesis. But I wonder what Geoffrey’s source was? Any clarification would be appreciated.
That's an interesting question, and one I hadn't considered other than as to be just the influence of "folklore" of the time, but perhaps I should look into the influences of the Arthur story more.
I would have never associated dragons with water because in my mind dragons are fire creatures that burn things and I was really impressed that statistical tools developed to study evolution could be used to analyze the different myths to determine a probable origin. My mind was completely blown! Thank you for sharing!
And thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment.
Dragons are basically wild elemental gods. There is lot of stories about gods turning into dragons as result of the corruption. Most notably Fafnir. Here it is worth to note that god opposing a dragon has commonly same attributes. As such it is possible that he also is a dragon, just in human form as more friendly to humans. Association with fire or poison, was popularized when dragons started being associated with evil. But originally they have lot more elements or even forms. For example Nicors are basically small fairy (spring/mist) dragons.
@@TheRezro There is so much to learn!
This is cool. And awesome sources too. Can you please also cites the source of the artworks next time? I see a few that I know the artists are still alive.
That's a good idea, if the artists name is known I will. Thank you for that suggestion.
@@Crecganford Thank you very much! Keep doing the great work!
Funnily enough, despite having followed and watched videos in this channel for months, this is the first time I am *actually* drinking a cup of tea while watching this
I have always kived mythology even as i child i would be in the school libray learning greek and roman mythology.
I am on a journey to find out more about these magnificent creatures and different cultures points of views. Plus im trying yo learn how to sraw and sculpt dragons as i am fascinated even more now that i have seen this video😊❤
Thank you so very much fir posting this..I'm totally hooked now more than ever😁
That sounds like a fascinating journey, and I hope my videos help you whilst you are on it.
@@Crecganford You have inspired me and I'll be trying to create my version of a dragon soon😊
Great video Jon. Have you ever heard about the Druid belief & tales about Dragons in and around Britain and Wales? Little I've heard I found fascinating. Of course my sorce is a book by Douglas Monroe. Although he focuses upon Merlin and the boy Arthur, there are places where Dragons are mentioned. Love the work you are doing. Have a great day!
Thank you l will look his work up.
Lamberton worm was uks most recent dragon 🐉....
Amazing as always, and yes to deeper dives on paleolithic snake rituals 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Thank you
What sounds somewhat anachronistic is that the 75k years old snake brings rain to the people and helps with crop growth while the Natufians credited with inventing agriculture are said to be 15k years old. Was rainfall that important for hunter-gatherers who would get their drinking water from rivers and streams, or were they doing some wild gardening or so or reliant on wild plants which they were missing out on in times of drought?
Edit: Or where there earlier shepherds who needed water for their animals?
That is an interesting question. I suspect the answer lies in the growing evidence that “hunter-gatherer” tribes, while not engaging in what we consider traditional agriculture, have been cultivating “food forests” for thousands of years. Some of these food forests can be shown to have been continually cultivated for thousands of years. So even if those ancient people would not have been planting crops in a manner we recognize as agriculture, they likely did have an understanding of the importance of water to life.
@@samvogel3146 true. What they refer now to as “permaculture”.
In tropical climates, getting less rain than usual is devastating to native plants which are used to getting rain nearly every day. Rain is more important to gatherers than farmers.
Hi Jon, another cracking episode. I have a couple of comments/observations
1. I loved the Rainbow Serpent myth. It was very poetic, almost biblical
2. Your comments about snakes being the earliest predators of mammals and it's effects on human psychology. Carl Sagan wrote a book many years ago called Dragons of Eden and one of its arguments was that dragon myths and the fear of snakes were a genetic/cultural memory of the dangers we faced in our early evolution
3. The finding that the dragon myth passed to south/central America via Polynesian migration seems to stack up with genetic studies of native south American tribes, even though the idea of Polynesian migration to south America causes problems for anthropology
Thanks for watching Phil, and for your observations. It is all appreciated.
Tremendous revelations. I've just rewatched this for the second time and feel so well informed now that many confusions of other myths now seem mucher clearer to me. Many thanks for this awesome pearl.
Thank you so much for watching, and your kind words.
The Chinese dragon king’s story is really touching, I bursted into tears, everyone should be grateful for those kind beings.
Kettle's on👍
Happy days!
😅😅
@@Crecganford n🎉n even if 35:33
The Chinese Long started out as pigs in the neolithic, something we have the fortune of being able to ascertain because through the ages many designs carved in jade were standard for their time, with many artisans copying them for hundreds of years, so we can see talismans depicting pigs gradually grow longer, then circular or C-shaped, then start taking on traits of other animals (like scales and antlers) until they became the Long we see today.
So dragons are long pig?
@@NaturalStateWingChun lol yeah
@@NaturalStateWingChun
T
Well that's a prety good idea for spec evo
New to the channel, but I really appreciate the scholarly and, at the same time, narrative quality you deliver
Thank you for your kind words.
I have not heard the rainbow serpent myth. I love it. What a beautiful discussion of my favorite creatures.
Fascinating! I'd love to hear more about how European dragons become associated subsequently with fire? I know that, for example, the Chimera is sometimes considered a dragon, and the earlier versions of that myth strongly associate it with fire. Some ofbthis could be attributed to the evolution of the representation of the snakes poison (many mythological dragons have poisonous breath or spit venom) but I understand there to be some reference to forge fire in some proto-dragon mythology?
As always, an enjoyable video full of myths and knowledge. Love what you’re doing. Thank you very much. 💚🐢
And thank you for continuing to watch my work
If dragon myths come from an ancestral/practical memory of snakes, imagine what "dragons" might be to other species...
I've always wondered what an ant colony's mythology might be, or dolphins, or octopodes, parrots, elephants, or armadillos, etc.
That's some xenofiction I might read.
I imagine in the future either whales or dolphins could gain the capability to communicate with humanity’s top biological researchers. We’ve studied their ability to communicate amongst themselves.
I am really enjoying this, this is such good research! flippping amazing!
Such a fascinating topic! Thanks for the rundown
I was lucky enough to live my life right down the road from a dragon that was painted on the bluffs of the river by the American Indians who used to call this area home. Look it up, it’s called “The Piasa Bird”. Just outside of Alton, Illinois. And just upriver from the Indian mega-city of Cahokia.
I can understand you now !!!
Thank you very much sir !
You are my best way to learn English !!
I'm glad I can help!
The quadruped is interesting as it kind of resembles the Boar which is typically the height of the animal hierarchy in the Celtic belief system and we also have the Dragon/Serpent system too though the latter seems to follow a lot with infinite state (shedding of skin/rebirth) which is consequently why people like the gnostics ended up with the ouroboros and jormungandr is chasing his own tail causing chaos.
I am so thankful to have found your insight and wisdom. Not on line much but look forward to more..
Thank you for watching and your kind words.
Thanks for this! I have always loved Dragons and was thrilled with the concept of being able to trace the myth motif back to Africa, 75,000 years ago. The comparison of the evolution of the myth with human migrations was really a light bulb moment for me. I loved it.
I love your content, your academic rigour is so cool, thanks! You investigated the dragon myth, tacked down its fascinating origin. But do you think that there is sometimes compelling evidence that the origin of some myth/tail is archetypal? If so would you explain this dichotomy or point me in the direction of a method or this discussion? Thanks again.
Thank you for your kind words. It is human nature to be scared of particular things, but the motif of a dragon almost certainly came the route I suggest due to so much commonality in the myth, there is just too much similarity to be an archetype.
"And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. "
If the story goes back 75k years, why isn't there earlier cave art depicting dragons? Suggested that it's a taboo to draw the dragon. But do modern versions of the story contain that taboo? That essential part of the story was everywhere until 6k years ago, then vanished in each of the different versions. Also hard to square with with South Africa example of the snake dragon. If that is the root and there is a taboo, why does it appear there?
Don't want to go too hard against this episode (love the channel!), but this history is just unbelievable. Notice that it also requires the Australian version of the story to get to Pero and Mexico. There was contact between Polenesia and New World. But enough to displace the most important Aztec gods? That goes against the claim at the beginning of the video that says victorious cultures maintain their myths. Scattered contact is not enough to produce Quetzequatl, and we would be able to track conquest from Polynesia.
There was sop much information to tell, and so I could never cover it all. But I will do in later episodes.
There is a rock carving in Khosian country in either Namibia or South Africa, or one of those countries, depicting a large snake and it's believed to be up to 70,000 years old. I don't know if it was ever confirmed, though. I saw it a few years back.
@@therealdarklizzy Yeah that would be absolutely wild. Looked it up and it was reported, but have since seen plenty of articles by academics discussing the first art, none of which mention this. Must be some dating or interpretation issue, where it is at least not a home run.
@@Crecganford Would love to hear more on this! BTW linked this video to a friend making a syllabus for a class on pre-columbian contacts.
This is so amazing! I've shared it with several people. My only hesitation regards the presentation of what I would call a false dichotomy between taking a Jungian archetypal view on one hand vs. simple myth migration patterns on the other. The two are not so mutually exclusive as we are led to believe. I agree with all that was said regarding the possible origins of dragon myths in our instinctual fear of snakes. But keep in mind that one way that the Jungian view of archetypes has been expressed is to say that they are instincts clothed with thought forms. Also make a distinction between mundane origins (eg, fear of snakes) of a motif vs. the motif's persostence. The potency of the serpent as a symbol to represent human drives which can destroy a person (eg, greed, hatred, delusion, chaos, etc) is a fact which can guarantee the persistence of serpent/dragon symbolism. Look at it this way: In becoming familiar with meanings in one's own nighttime dreams, certain dream sequences can obviously be traced back to specific events from the days prior to the dream. And yet, simultaneously, that same dream sequence can also be seen as symbolically representing certain inner dialogues. In fact, that dream sequence which has its cause in some mundane occurrence from days prior may persist as a recurring dream because of how well it reflects inner dialogues and struggles.
Very good video, lots of information about dragons.
Thank you so much! I would have never thought about a common origin due to European dragons being more obviously fire & earth dragons. Many people are astonished when I tell them, there are African dragon myth & tales, particularly popular in our Southern region (Lesotho, Eswatini & Zimbabwe included) - matter of fact essential in the indigenous religions - South Africa is my other home country besides Germany (Japan merely partial ancestry) - so I have been fascinated with dragon /lintwurm tales from early childhood. I find them fascinating from all over the world. Actually, the Southern region & parts of West Africa have dragon /giant water snake legends, as many rivers and lakes belong to a particular river or lake. They were the guardians of the water, at times demanding human sacrifce, but only caused floods or droughts when people polluted or wasted the water. But times have changed. Nonetheless, the stories remain. Though due to Christianity & Islam most people distant themselves from it because they feel uncomfortable about this aspect from their past, others keep silent because they want to protect their heritage. There are sacred issues involved. Many details are not to be found in books because they would only give researchers, missionaries vague stories & versions, also due to the fear of being labelled superstitious, naive & gullible s it happened unfortunately, so much in the past -
I really love this video. Awesome research. I would love a video on how the zodiac signs were "created" across the cultures, and where their story began. I believe that the dragon was the milky way, btw.
Thank you for watching and commenting. A few people have requested videos about the Zodiac signs, and so I will add that to my To Do list. A great idea!
A Deep Dive into the 75 to 100,000 year old South African Dragon myth would be my ask .
only found your channel today! i am so far finding this amazing. i have always found mythology fascinating.
Welcome to Crecganford!
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your support, this is really appreciated.
The more I learn about dragons, the more I learn about my self. Sounds weird, but there is a lot to it. Thank you for this
Just discovered your channel; very cool discussion. And thank you for the sensitivity you showed in describing the Rainbow Serpent and the stories (The Dreaming) of my ancestors. Snakes are an enduringly important motif amongst my Grandmother’s mob; beings to respect rather than to (simply) fear. (And I am watching/ writing with my pet python looped lazily across my shoulders.) We also have real dragons in Australia; genus Pogona, the dragon lizards, which according to my mob are named Dragons because they seldom are seen drinking water, despite living in arid and desert environments. They do actually drink, but in most cases the dew from chilly desert nights collects on their rough scaly heads and is directed by their ‘spines’ to the corners of their mouths.
It is extra cool that you clearly work hard on accurate pronunciation. You have a new subscriber.
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to write such fantastic comment. I really do appreciate it.
Being Australian, I instantly noticed the similarity between the Chinese story and the rainbow serpent
This was such a beautiful message. I am also reminded of the serpent that moves across the earth activating different earth chakras, I am unsure of the origins of this story. It is said in this current era it is entering/has entered the chakra in South America after spending many years in the Indian chakra. It is one suggestion that the moving of this great earth serpent is the cause of the upheaval humanity is experiencing now. This resonates with several points you made, particularly with the Australian story of the rainbow serpent creating rivers and mountains and the great power it holds in impacting the whole earth and humanity, very interesting!
Thank you for your time and energy into researching and corroborating data, and your embracing of all cultural views spanning time and space. You tell the stories wonderfully; an orator of our time. infinite blessings on your work brother and team
Between this and the Oldest Creation myth videos, I've been brainstorming a creation myth to put into my D&D stuff that is both a scientifically accurate (as in it begins as dust condensing into planets and whatnot), but also personifies and gives rise to the original gods relevant to the characters (Terra [Earth], Sola [sun], and Luna [Moon]). Terra would then create giants and dragons as a kind of original immune system to fight invaders and order the world to make it livable to other life. Thank you for your hard work, it is most appreciated, I love learning about myths and legends!
I hope it leads to better and more interesting campaigns for you.
Awesome thank you, it reminds me of the the Jibboa (great anaconda) in the creation stories of the Huni Kuin people of the Brazilian Amazon
Crecganford, you showed a map of the spread quite a few times and I was really curious with the pacific island section.
Because I’m not sure if it’s was coloured then same due to synchronous development or, is the pacific island and South American myth linked.
The possibility for sustained contact and even a migration or two has been really been capturing my attention for the last 2 years. But the genealogy just never seems to work out, and the archeology of South America rarely hints to sustained pacific contact and migrations. But there’s frequent hints of linguistic links, is this a sign of a mythological link between the pacific and South American cultures?
Check out the Australian myths of the red-haired giants. I don't recall the particular video, but they speak of seafaring peloponnesians following the Pacific headwinds from Australia to Hawaii and then on to North America. Similar artifacts have been found throughout the Pacific Rim
It’s possible. I’m pretty sure the Easter islands and South America were connected, and it’s not hard to see as there’s an ocean current going between them
Having backpacked on both sides of the Pacific, you notice the similarities of plants of New Zealand and Patagonia, as well as the Galapagos Islands. Many of the(flying) birds are similar enough to each other as well. The Polynesian peoples traveling east may have noticed it as well, possibly reinforcing some material/resource based cultural stories.
Fascinating! The most interesting part of this video is how we can be statistically confident to a very high degree that the dragon myth started in one place and time: 75kya in South Africa, as opposed to its spontaneously beginning in multiple locations: independently due to dragons being a Jungian archetype.
However, the explanation for the dragon's persistence is curious, in so far as it does, indeed, sound quite like a Jungian archetype.
Perhaps dragons started as an archetype in South Africa, spread via the phylogenetic analogous process, and its staying power comes from its archetypal features?
I wonder if it’s not an either/or but rather a yes and situation. The myth originates, spreads and pops up repeatedly as representative of power in some respect.
Nope the "serpent" myth started in the garden and it's iconography can be found around ancient cultures mythology like Egyptians to Aztecs... Do NOT believe the out of Africa "woke-science=falsity" the cradle of civilization was always by the Euphrates and Tigris were Babylon/Mesopotamia was, which coincidentally according to history is pre-egypt... Dragons were renamed around 1841 to Dinosaurs... They never breathed fire, some flew, as a medieval monk said in his book on dragons "They are not mystical beasts just animals" cannot find the name of the book atm... It is one of those hard things to find that runs contrary to what people believe... chimera = antediluvian animal nephilim "they sinned with all flesh"... "epic of gilgamesh"
There are no "Jungian archetypys", and there are no similarities, no common sources, and no common attributes. It is all just a pile of stupid claims.
@@hans-joachimbierwirth4727 hmmm okay
@@hans-joachimbierwirth4727 Oh there is a common source "powers and principalities" and "the serpent in the garden" temoting eve with the "fruit of the knowledge of good and evil"... "book of enoch/genisis" They came down and took wives for themselves and begot children = nephilim = giant...
Aztec/Pre-Eygyption Both have Cyclopean masonry/Architecture with big blocks that fit together perfectly yet half a world apart... e.g. they divided the land among themselves Poseidon = Atlantis ?... There were giant in the earth in those days and also after... Both sites have paintings or stories of large leaders and the normal people maybe a quarter of the size... The smaller were required to worship the nephilim and their fathers the fallen... this time is explained in greek myth titans, and the hindu "golden age" but it was not a golden age it was a dystopian nightmare...
Have you studied pagan religions, all have their symbology/symbolism ? Have you studied Giant myths worldwide... Because I have looked into all that and more and one thing that is common is the serpent especially in the "religion" or in the case of Egypt on the "brow of the ruler"... Do you even understand biblical symbolism...
Wonderful to learn something new about my country South Africa. It has also made me wonder if this could have influenced the tale of Adam, Eve and the snake. Thank you so much for these insights.
Am watching this video as part of a 'Crecganford' binge :)
Would love to hear an analysis of the Australian indigenous peoples'
Myths.
Thanks for the entertaining education, from 🇦🇺. Happy New Year to you 🙃
You will find a couple of videos touching on these as you binge.