The business of imported Chinese implements.
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
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First of all, I am old enough to be your grandfather. This video reminds me of a story my father told me about his brother, my uncle. They both served during the Korean War. Once back home, my uncle was determined to start farming a small piece of land he owned with one of the small walk behind tractors he saw overseas while on duty. My father tried to talk him out of it for many of the same arguments that you made in this video. Very determined and against all odds my uncle found a way to have one shipped to the states. My father talks of how excited he was when it arrived in three metal crates similar to the ones you are seated on. They took pictures of unpacking and assembling the tractor while my father continually reminded him of the mistake he had made. In time my father would come to eat those words. I wish I had the pictures they took. The crates were labeled: "K.K. Kubota Tekko-jo"
That is such a cool story! Thank you for sharing! Who knew it would become such a big company in America!
@@texra1318 And who knew that some former large companies have now become nonexistent. Allis Chalmers for example.
There's a big difference in high Japanese vs low quality Chinese, Taiwan, Vietnam, Korean junk🤷♂️
Japanese stuff started out as crap too, do your research. I’ve seen certain Chinese stuff go from utter garbage, to passable, to more than respectable in the past 30 or so years I’ve been paying attention. It’s a damned shame that we’ve let American manufacturing go as far down down the tubes as we have. So it goes.
As someone who's family was in agriculture, Excavation & Logging for many years, I was taught by my family You get what you pay for. & never to buy a piece of equipment no matter what it was without good dealer support. I stand by this practice to this day when buying equipment.
You did the right thing, Thanks for looking out for the customer.
I'm a firm believer of owning things that are made in America. The extra price is worth it unless its a disposable which I understand the value. In summary, Jobs and quality are important to me and our country.
I try to purchase as much domestically made products as I can, simply out of spite because china doesnt need my money. Hell, I would rather buy something made in Mexico. The problem is that a lot of products that are american made have an asterisk beside the Made In the USA stick that says "assembled with foreign and domestic parts" which just means made in china, assembled in america
@@The_JEB We've become a world of global scale. Kubota is technically made in Japan, but assembled in the U.S. I haven't checked John Deere lately, but would not be a bit surprised to learn that they're the same way. Heck, last time I checked, even Harley Davidson was using foreign and domestic parts. It's become nearly impossible to find anything that's 100% made in America, other than American children. :)
That "extra" cost usually bought you quality,customer support, parts AND AMERICAN jobs which helps us all.
Bringing in s*%t from china benefits a distributor and the retailer that's it. No other income for raw material, manufacturing or any secondary US jobs :(. Cheap is not cheap it costs us ALL !!!!
@@daveb5540 You do realize most things marked American made is made with Chinese parts. Buying American made doesn't mean shit any more you need to buy quality even if its from another country.
I have zero issue when overseas parts as long as the company has domestic parts supply available and still offers warranty and support.
When the video started, I thought you were going to introduce your new line of Chinese imported implements. Was glad to hear you decided against it.
Some may have been disappointed. It must be sad for Chinese manufacturers who are really trying to make a better product. There must be some. We should remember Italy was once known as a place where cheap and nasty products came from and it was not too long ago German and Japanese products were also held to be cheap and nasty too.
@@kdegraa , one distinct difference between China and the other countries you mentioned is that they were not openly antagonistic and sworn enemies of the USA. That in itself is enough reason not to embrace these manufacturers. In the same vein I abhor buying oil from Iran, Venezuela or Iraq. Even Saudi Arabian oil is dicey in my estimation.
@@isaackvasager9957 , agreed. I suppose their strategic locale is to blame for our continued relationship.
@@terrycastor8299 Italy, Germany and Japan were not sworn enemies of the USA? They were literally at war win WW2!
@@hmallett , WWII, while obviously significant in world history, is irrelevant in today's economy. Viet Nam was more recently an enemy, but most of the furniture I've purchased in the last 3 years have come from there. The USA has never held grudges, in fact, more times that not we have helped rebuild counties and their economies after a conflict.
You used the word that came to my mind during this discussion, and that is "disposable." For my money, when I have work to do I have little patience for equipment that can't stand up to the job, and I'm more than willing to pay more up front for something that will be effective and reliable. Disposable is for razors....
Even razors used to not be disposable!
When you shop CHEAP- THE END RESULT IS ALWAYS EXPENSIVE
I can't tell you how many times older and wiser people than me have told me firmly....."buy it made in the USA, and buy it once!"
Excellent video, Neil!💪🇺🇸👍
Thank you for your commitment to quality. Wish everything you sold could be something made here in in the USA but I realize our manufacturing infrastructure has been so gutted over the last many decades that USA-only is no longer possible. "You just can no longer get that from here." I am a dairy farmer in WI trying to make a living against all odds, like so many others. I was bitten badly by some Chinese-made mower parts last year. The part failure caused me to lose quite a bit of valuable hay to the weather. I purchased normal-wear repair parts for a USA-made machine from a reputable company right here in the mid-west. Was a bit surprised to see the parts they sent to me were Made in China, but I put them on anyway. Part failed in less than four acres of cutting and let me sit. After a go-round with the seller they quickly replaced the defective part with one made in the USA. Hundreds of acres later the part is still functioning as it should. Say NO to China, PLEASE.
I have had 3 orders I have made through Messick's in the past 4 years and have been very pleased with their service.
Thanks for the information. I appreciate companies that stand by their products and offer support.
Thank you for this video. You have given me a second to pause on an idea of ordering a mixed container of a bunch of equipment. They are more toys to me than something I hang my hat on to perform work for livelihood.
One large "ATTABOY!" for you and your team. Thanks.
Thank you Neil for your insight. The things you brought out are so true. The relationship with a dealer that believes in quality and and supports the end user is so important. Again thank you.
💥 I found this very interesting, it’s too bad the liability is so expensive.
*Keep on tractoring!*
That was a Great Presentation ! It shows your commitment to quality products and customer satisfaction!
Which can be lacking elsewhere! Thank You for your time and effort.
Bought a BUSHOG SQUEALER in 1996 brand new.the machine has been maintained and used,not abused,still runs as good as the day i bought it.No headaches,no breakdowns in front of customers,just painless rotary cutting for years.Stick with what treats you right and spend the extra,you never regret it.
It's refreshing to see a company with a long term outlook.
This video was AWESOME. Maybe your best one ever. I learned so much watching it. So much information
Thanks Neil. Great info on imported implement support after the sale.
Thank you for your in depth presentation of many details surrounding imported tractor implements. Much appreciated!👍👍🙂
I find it to be a constant struggle to locate products built in the US. A great deal of my time researching items is spent on determining the source...mainly, if it's from China. This video makes perfect sense, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I watch a lot of your videos even though I bleed green. And because you share a lot of common sense information that is not necessarily brand specific, I have added you to my subscribed channel list. Keep up the good work!
Great take on Chinese imports! We need to support our USA manufacturing and the parts availability that goes along with that purchase.
As always another GREAT PRESENTATION Neil!
Really well presented Neil. I'm not automatically opposed to buying a product simply because it's not made here, but you lay your argument (justification) in a pretty clear, convincing manner. Very helpful and informative! 👍😎👍
I bought a Chinese manufactured flail about 3 years ago. I use it for probably no more than 15-20 hours a year. It came with very little documentation, and obviously finding parts without that is difficult. However, I will say, if you've got decent skills on using google or other search engine, you can do some searching to find some parts diagrams and lists. Sure, you may not be able to buy the parts from the manufacture, but you can find almost all of them somewhere.
For no more than I use the mower, I was willing to take the chance on it, considering the money I saved up front, but I knew what I was getting into when I bought it.
Answered my question...should have waited until the end! Lol. Super transparent and very helpful. Great video!!!
Excellent thoughtful information Neil, thanks for putting this out there.
Mesicks = service, know-how and no BS. People go above and beyond. I would have bought a Powerstar from them but I'm 4 states away!
Really good information, Neil. Thanks for doing the research and explaining.
Great info Neal. I bought a cheap Chinese flail mower a few years ago. All well until I started needing parts. Now I have to try and find parts and pieces that looks look it might work and rig the thing together since the place that sold it no longer exists and of course.. no parts manual or break down!!
Wish more companies felt like this thank you, live in the US buy in the US!!
Keep up the videos. You have given me a good education on tractors and implements.
Excellent, excellent video. Parts, liability, warranty, return. Important stuff. Even if all the bearings in every implement you sell are Chinese, that quality domestic partner is key
Neil, Thanks for the information. GREAT VIDEO!! GOOD JOB!
I live in Deere country and for the big things, I'll probably buy Deere.. because YOU taught me about dealer support. Having said that, thank you for this video. I completely respect what you folks are putting out and you are a point of reference for everything I buy.
There are too many people that do not understand what has happened to US manufacturing.
Some of that is coming back- but will be much more mechanized or robotized. Other niches will shortly also get the pinch- 70 K truck drivers, nationwide will become obsolete shortly after self driving cars become the norm. And if American mfgs don't learn to invest in their people as well as their plants, they will do this again. FR
American manufacturing isn't a viable business model anymore. It's not a tragedy, just what happens. Time to adapt, move on and find a new thing to be best at.
@@TheHonestPeanut Something America should have been doing from the late '50s- moving into robotic manufacturing. I find it sad that today, car makers from all over the world set up factories in America and use well paid Americans to build products American run plants cant' seem to equal in quality or value. BTW , most of those plants are full of automated operations, and most of that automated equipment there and even in the Big Three, comes from Japan , Korea and China. You are very correct Linus- but we are about forty years late, maybe later, implementing it. FR
@@fredericrike5974 Agreed. We are WAY behind the rest of the world because America is largely focused on holding onto the past. We have two choices though, piss and moan and holler "no fair" while the ship goes down or STFU and get moving. Heck moving half of our militaries budget to grants, education and public science would skyrocket us AND still give us a military budget larger than every other country in the world combined.
@@TheHonestPeanut You have seen the light! Now if we could only get about 150 million others to see it and go to the polls! FR
I just learned my lesson the hard way. I bought an imported ballast box from the online website of the big blue Mart store. No Moving parts, so how wrong could it go, right? I liked that it had a door to empty the ballast material and it had an integrated 2" hitch receiver. When I got it, the included Cat 1 Pins were too big to fit in the pre-drilled holes, the door was already rusted, and the 2" hitch receiver was slightly too small to actually fit a 2" receiver. So long story short, I would have been better off setting $300 on fire.
If a box can’t be made right there is not much hope.
No No, think positive, you just bought a planter box that will turn heads when decked out in flowers... Ha Ha :)
I built my own 400 pound ballast box out of a 30 gallon heavy plastic barrel, some old dumbell weights, a drawbar, concrete, some heavy angle iron and welded a 2" receiver out the back. I had less than $100 and a few hours time invested. It works great.
I couldn't help but start laughing when you said the 2" receiver wasn't 2". 🤣
Mine isn’t quite that bad, but I am dissatisfied with my box purchase. If I could do it again I’d buy a “good” one.
I really enjoy your videos, though I’m living in Europe. I bought my very first tractor, chose the green one instead of the Chinese noname brand for the same reasons. Parts, supply, customer service. It was almost double the price. Even if these companies use Chinese parts here and there, they are going to be by your side when something goes wrong.
And it did. Tractor leaked hydraulic oil from the start. Dealer checked it on site, found a faulty weld on a pipe, installed the replacement 2 days later, haven’t had a problem since.
Neil, that was a really well laid out explanation. I know the low price of Chinese implements (and tractors) is tempting, but always remember: that thing you bought is disposable. Need a part? You're screwed. Buy American (and Canadian!) and you'll never be disappointed. Although my daily driver is a Kubota, my other tractors are John Deere, Ford and Massey Ferguson. I consider the money I spent on them to be money well spent.
I'm a regular Canadian viewer. Keep up the good work!
Good content Neil. Thanks for the presentation.
Appreciate your honesty Neil. Cheaper is not always better. Like the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for." Cheers
Neil.....great insight and perspective! I appreciate your looking out for the end-user! "If it wasn't so good, then why did I pay so little for it!".....said no one, ever!
Support your country. We need it more than ever.
Will only buy Made In The USA. Worth the extra bucks, helps support our country. People always looking for the "best deal", you did a great job explaining how the less expensive product isn't the best deal. Keep up the great Videos!!!!
Well said. I'm a believer in the buy once and cry once purchase. With an emphasis on us made products.
Another great video Neil, thank you 😊
I'll stick with American made whenever possible. You get what you pay for. Italian made is good. I've had a BCS sicklebar mower for 32 years and can still get parts for it.
Parts support is a joke for that Chinese stuff. I would love a walk behind bcs sickle mower.
Most stuff made in Europe, USA and Japan is pretty good.
I really like this guy....he tells it like it is....Very honest dude.
Nice presentation. Thanks for some honest information.
When I started the buying process for a tractor, started with JD. When I saw a lot of the parts stamped ‘made in china’ I looked elsewhere. It seems like Ventrac is the only truly made in America tractor out there, save their engines.
That is actually true for Ventrac. They are made 5 minutes from me. But now they are owned by Toro so I'm guessing it goes overseas for metalwork
Thanks Neil. Very informative.
Thanks Neil. Well put.
Great job Neil.
i believe you have provided a very valuable video and discussion on the "pros and cons" of buying "cheap" "foreign made" equipment and implements. yes, i agree, an equipment owner can probably justify buying a very "simple" foreign-made item - like a back drag blade - and use it for as long as it lasts and probably get their money's worth and value out of that item. HOWEVER, the more "complex" and involved a foreign-made implement or attachment becomes, the more RISK the buyer is going to take by paying a significant amount of money for that item EVEN IF the price is still below the more expensive domestically produced like item. too many people today just look at "price" and stop at that point. they do not even think - "what do i do if this thing breaks? can i get parts for this item?" and being a retired lawyer, i was particularly interested in your discussion of the "liability for injuries" caused by a foreign-made implement. that area of the law is called "products liability" and those laws say that anyone who puts a product "into the stream of commerce" is potentially liable for any injuries that item causes due to a failure or breakage. this liability might even include injuries caused by the item even if it is used "as designed" or "as intended." these cases are litigated under the theory of the product having "an inherently defective design." for a company like Messicks, product liability - as a result of the failure of a foreign-made implement or attachment - is probably the ONLY question and analysis you needed to do.
Neil,
You and your company... well really the correct word is FAMILY, are the best!!!!!!!!!!
Facts and an education. Thanks
Thanks for the video...I have bought parts from Messicks for older equipment I have where I could no longer get parts locally ( in California -BIG ag state ). Very grateful for that. I can only agree with the commentors that believe in buying American, out of pride and belief in our country. The price is not just the dollars!
Thanks for the great info Neil
Excellent video!
Great insight!
Awesome explanation, thanks.
Great to see someone who cares for the consumer. Australia used to manufacture heaps and now we are in a bind. Big move for Australian made now
Appreciate your honesty.
Buy cheap get cheap I learned a few hard lessons and now I’ll spend the long dollar for much better equipment. Great info Neil
I have a Chinese ballast box. It's functional and solid but if you look at the little things on it that are sloppy and ask yourself how that level of quality would translate to a more complex implement, the answer is that it wouldn't scale well at all which is why my box blade is made in the US. I see a lot of pro US comments on here which is great. I would buy either but even I wouldn't consider a Chinese tiller or any other similarly complex implement. I would get one from a reputable US dealer or ideally a US dealer and manufacturer. All you have to do Is read through reviews for the Chinese stuff and you'll find the exact same support issues Neil mentions. Also, good call on clarifying Titan Implements vs. Titan Attachments. Very different products.
I agree with buying American made absolutely. But concerning yourself and your business, I am really glad to see that you are more concerned with taking care of your fellow American more than you are on making a cheap dollar. That speaks volumes about what your company stands for. Good for you, and your company.
Damn interesting video. I’m grateful you made it.
Regards,
Marky
Some people see nothing wrong with gray market stuff until they need a part that is unique to their machine and it not readily available. I used to try and help find those parts but found the customer came to expect me to do their work and still complain about freight or long lead times or cost. Not worth it - you are right spend you time and effort with manufacturers that understand the parts and service support part of the transaction. Good video.
Great insight, thanks
sweetbeef u nailed it they got u on the parts big style
Two thumbs up Neil 👍👍
Good info. Thanks.
Who makes the best quality stuff at the best price? They should win your order regardless. But, marketing is a powerful beast that can drive you into lesser stuff though you believe it to be better.
Excellent video and life lesson. Everyone in the US should be required to watch this. Imports do have their place but they should at least label them as "single use" for the lower end products and "single generation" for the upper crust... Usually by the time you figure out the difference as a consumer, it's too late and the distributor/manufacturer is long gone.
In an era where its becoming more and more difficult to buy American and/or quality, it's refreshing to see that a company like this cares about the stuff they sell and to whom they sell it to! Sometimes the price you see on the cheap equipment is hard to pass up, until you realize how much your time, parts and frustrations are worth.
I'm a supporter of International Trade. That said, I also think we need a level playing field, so that workers in North America or Europe can compete with workers in SE Asia or sub-Saharan Africa. As for stuff made in the so-called Peoples Republic of China, a lot their sweat shops are connected to state prisons, so they don't even have to pay the (compared to our wages) low wages of ordinary Chinese workers. They just use the inmates for free labour.
You don't have to buy only stuff made in your own country, but make sure it's manufactured in a capitalist country, that solves a lot of the issues Neil is talking about in this video: Quality control, damage liability, parts sustainability. Countries lacking a free market and freedom of the press, don't foster the culture needed to force manufacturers - and their staff - to do their best.
sorry you had some sweat shop in usa and still do and you are giveing work to prisoner in usa and you are not a supporter of international trade , we are getting rip off with the wood we sell to you guys for centuries , so my point is very simple wherever you can get the cheapest product you will still do it as a matter of fact Messicks has is main porduct kubota built everywhere else. so this is a sales point that is all from this gentlemen. nice job.
Excellent presentation Neil. It's important for people to understand that most of the "brand name" implements and attachments actually consist of mostly components made in China but the final assembly is done here so that the end product can legally be labeled made in the USA. All of the companies here that assemble those products are very careful to protect their image by never informing the consumer where the components are coming from and simply slapping a sticker on the product and making made in the USA claims all over their website and literature. There's nothing wrong with this, but in those cases, a large percentage of the product value is in the components and that money eventually ends up overseas. For a company to design and manufacture most or all of the components domestically, based on the relatively low volumes of the compact tractor market and low price of competing products, the costs will be high enough that their profit margins would be so low that the business model just would not make sense. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the components used in implements and attachments and final products sold by Land Pride and Deere are sourced from China. I believe that there is a mix, meaning that some are actually made here and some are made elsewhere. Both companies have extensive manufacturing facilities in the US so that the consumer's impression could be that ALL of their products are made in those facilities.
I’ve bought some cheap stuff off Amazon. Things like a set of clamp on forks for our Kubota bucket that were titan implements. We also bought a ratchet rake but I believe those are American made.
We’ve been looking at more implements, we’re both young and this is our first property and it’s 25 acres. Stuff is so expensive, I can see why these cheaper prices are alluring.
But we’ve been holding out for more reputable sources of implements.
Go to local farm auctions and buy used equipment. Much higher quality and usually a fraction of the cost of even the cheapest new imports.
Thanks for the info. Glad you did the research and found all the details. I like the way you guys do business, thinking of the customer first. That kind of thinking will keep you going for many years to come. Thanks again.
Thanks for tackling this difficult subject. I have been very confused and frustrated over the years when buying well almost anything really. Many American companies use parts made in China on their products. The labels may say assembled in America rather than made in America. The point is with so much of what we buy everyday being watered down with Chinese parts you start to not care anymore and base your decision on price alone. Then like you point out you can’t get simple parts and you have to resort to throw away vs some brand that has a serviceable option. I am not a for profit farmer who depends on tractor attachments so I spend a lot of time now looking at price vs quality. If it’s a simple steel part that I can maintain with a welder I will probably stay cheap. However, if it has gears, hydraulics or electronics I will buy a name brand that I can get parts for. That is how I can afford to do what I need to do else I have to buy very old equipment and deal with warn out tools and get by as the economics is not there for me.
Good decision. I'm a retired civil engineer. I've heard of chyna steel failing at 1/6th the strength it was rated. Good Luck, Rick
That’s why I purchased a mohawk car lift and stayed away from Chinese imports!
that right there is the exact reason why I watch and subscribe
That's exactly what you have to think about. I inquired about different type of items like mini skid steers. One company built the frame but almost everything else was outsourced by major components. Engines were sourced by Perkins or Briggs. Basically you could go to any major supply house to get what you need..
He's right. You have to take a long look at what your buying and research. They do have some good companies but their products are not as cheap as alot of their competitors.
I appreciate the business lesson
Great information and disclosure concerning this subject.
Your the man, very nice
You get what you pay for, can’t expect much from a $500 3 point tiller
I got some parts from these guys…. The smallest little thing… they had it ! Now my z482 is back to life
Interesting vid👍here in Australia we have one Chinese brand that sells tractors, loaders, earthmoving equipment that has come into trouble with warranty issues, something cheap like non moving parts equipment would be ok but dealing with OHS or WPS this is where you have to think about documents n issues, is worth having a product that doesn’t have parts/instructions that meets OHS requirements. I seen some Chinese equipment with non standard building n servicing is tricky too. Unless Chinese team up overseas supplier I would staying away from buying equipment.
I am an Italian jd 1026r owner, so when I buy an implement I pick Italian made attachments. For example we just got a Orsi Macchine Agricole offset flail mower
I love ❤️ your videos
Great video, Neil. We all like to save a few dollars when we can, but the customer / dealer relationship is often overlooked. Keep up the great work. -Ed
Very interesting.
I recently quit my job working for a firm importing Chinese made ag equipment for similar reasons as you stated.
I find a place for the cheaper Chinese made stuff when I have a very limited use for it... example... stump bucket... the one I got from titan will last me a lifetime because I don't use it much. The stuff I use on a regular basis i definitely look for higher quality manufacturer. I have bought some stuff from Messicks and have not been disappointed.
Good info
I believe in the buy once cry once theory when buying any type of farm equipment. Pay a price for good quality equipment. When it breaks or needs serviced I can readily get it taken care of, parts and dealers are all throughout the area or close by, and I know who I am dealing with.
holds true with most equipment, especially if it's connected to your livelihood. Down time is lost money.
Parts support is the biggest driver of my purchasing. If it cant be supported basically forever, I'm not interested. Hence why everything I own is old school
Great video. I live in Canada. I'll be honest that I was looking at ordering a couple of different attachments directly from China a few weeks ago. Based solely on price. I decided not to when I looked at the reality of trying to get different parts for the attachment if needed. In the long run, it would actually end up being cheaper if I ordered from somewhere in North America.
I'm happy to say that the Box Scraper, Pallet Forks and Post Hole Auger for my Kubota tractor are all from U.S. based Land Pride. I just hope than my American neighbours realize that many things made in the U.S. are purchased by your Canadian neighbours and vice versa.
Lots of Korean and Japanese cars in Canada….