As usual, another great and informative video... THANKS Neil. And as usual again, your comments about dealership integrity is spot on correct. Before buying a new tractor, I visited two John Deere dealerships and was amazed at my reception! More bluntly, shocked at how little attention I received when I walked through the front door! After getting the same "cold shoulder" from another Deere dealership, I simply drove across the highway to the local Kubota dealership where I was greeted on the parking lot with a big smile and "Can I help you find something?" It was there at Paris Farm & Ranch Kubota (Paris, Texas), that I bought my Kubota L4060 LE, with a variety of recommended attachments with zero % financing and reasonable monthly payments! And the salesman, Corey Gray, remains my "go to person" anytime a need arises! Yes brand and dealership is at least 90% of the deal!!! By the way, prior to the purchase, I was able to get some very helpful advice from Messick's also... you helped me chose the 4060 over the L3901 that I was considering, because of the advantages of the loader lift capacity and PTO power of the 4060. Thanks! D. Foote (Hurst, TX).
In Australia a 4 in 1 front end loader is almost standard equipment on all sub compact to utility tractors sold with a loader. So they are plumbed with a third function at the front. Not many are sold with a standard bucket. I think we can thank the cheap Chinese tractors for this. Cheap Chinese tractors hit Australia & they all had 4 in 1 loaders. So brands like Kubota had to follow suit. In regards to two sets of hydraulic remotes at the back, fewer tractors have it. Mine does but I had to get the optional second set when I bought the tractor. I kind of think I should have got a third set of remotes.
Grew up farming on a large Dairy farm and farmed until 42, never had 3rd function. Now have worked in dealerships 12 years, so I have sold many 3rd function machines.... Many people do not need or want it, especially for the cost it takes to have it.
This video is three years old and most of the information you provide is still relevant and valuable. Keep up the excellent videos! Thanks for informing us. 🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸
Neil I believe this was a good video for EVERYBODY. The one wish I have is that all salesmen would tell you the truth. I totally agree that a strong service department on anything is worth the extra cost. Customer service in this country needs to strongly improve including talk with a knowledgeable person versus a voice message recorder.
As a recent customer, purchasing a brand new Kubota tractor as well as multiple implements, these people put their money where their mouth is! I cannot recommend them enough, and that is after comparing my service and sales experience with them to others in the past. There is nothing like Messicks!👍💪
As far as implements go... your better off renting some stuff than ever buying it. Like a post-hole auger. I own one, with 2 bits. We used it solidly for almost a week, and maybe twice since. Renting it for a week for $150 vs spending $900 on it with a 7 inch and 12inch bit was unnecessary. Another item is a brush mower. I use mine constantly, but I have friends that spent $2,000 on a brush mower that they mow an acre or 5 with once a year for a couple hours. One can be rented for $100 a day during the week and $225 for Friday-Sunday.
That's a great point on renting VS buying. I think I might use a post auger maybe once every few years, but I can borrow one in my case and not have to rent, but a brush mower I'd have to rent, and I'd maybe need one once a year.
@@DougFrantz Either way if you rent or buy, you still have to figure the time you've spent with either....One other thing is if you have a friend or neighbor that you can go in together on implements and share the cost, it maybe a possibility as well.
@@wildbill23c Just make sure that you'll get along with whoever you're buying with. Co-owning machinery with someone who you've had a falling out can be a nightmare.
You're right about buying used vs new. I was going to upgrade from my M6040 to an M5-111 and rather than trade in my old tractor I was trying to sell it outright. I had it sold to about 3 different people until they went to the bank and figured out they could buy a brand new M6060 for a lower payment than buying my used tractor. The finance term was longer on the new tractor and it was at 0 interest so it made more sense to pay $350 a month for 5 years instead $450 a month for 3. PS i just made those numbers up to illistrate the point I didn't actually do any math.
Let's be honest- manufacturers and dealers don't like cash because they make MORE money if the customer finances the equipment. Whether you finance or buy cash, the dealer still gets their money either way. But if you finance, they might get an extra commission from the bank/finance company for selling the loan, and the bank/finance company gets the interest on the loan. With that in mind, why would dealers or manufacturers be incentivized to give you a cash discount and make even LESS money on a cash sale? They wouldn't, so it's silly when someone walks into a dealership and thinks they're going to be treated special just because they want to pay cash. The only time cash was king is when dealers held the customer loans themselves, or when unscrupulous dealers wanted to underreport sales.
I think you also get better value for money on used implements. A lot of people buy an implement, don’t use it much, and either sell it or trade in. I got a disk last year for about 40% off, and it still had paint on the disks. I don’t think it had been used for a full hour. Look hard and you can get good value.
I wanted to get a flail mower as well when I brought my tractor but it happened to add just enough to push my tractor to the next bracket and increase the interest rate offered by the bank on my purchase price.sometimes a smaller purchase price can be accepted by smaller banks with a better interest rate than the big ones at least it was in my experience
Neil great video as always! I’m subscribed and always looking to learn something new. I’ve watched most of your videos over the last five plus years. I’m also in that category of first time tractor owners trying to help folks out and share some of the lessons learned. I can see being biased by owning a certain brand, but I’m humble enough to know there are some trade offs that I personally made compared to what other brands offer. Dealers really are what make the difference. Great points throughout the video. Brand longevity is another point in the category of “not all brands are equal/good”…Cabella’s had some nice rebadged tractors a couple years back…Cub Cadet had some nice looking tractors…but you don’t see those anymore except in the classified ads. I also see those “tractor packages” and concur with the trailer example. That was a nice SVL-75 you were talking through emissions on in the video. Overall another great video!
If I were buying a used tractor and the seller had kept a maintenance log, I'd know the machine was well cared for. Last year I traded in my B3300 SU for an L3560. The dealership knew I kept good care of my trade in because A) I kept a log, and B) I bought all OEM filters etc from them. Also, when I bought my B3300 SU from them 10 years ago, I had a long talk with the service department guys. I asked them what a tractor owner could do to cut down on service work. One guy said, "Get religious about the preventive maintenance; lube your loader, etc, blow dust, etc off your radiator and engine filters, keep dirt and water out of your fuel, and change oil and filters at the recomended intervals.
Agree. I once went to look at an older used tractor that had a lot of hours on it. I was giving it the once over, checking fluids, etc. but I couldn't find the dipstick for the transmission. I asked the owner where the dipstick was located and he said he didn't know. I said thank you very much but I don't think this machine is quite what I'm looking for and left. :-)
Neil is the best salesman even when he’s not actively trying to sell. Love your video’s. I live in nj and just started buying parts from your dealership. My local ones don’t stock much and if I have to get it shipped anyway may as well get it from you guys. By the way you stocked every thing I needed and my case 1825 is 30 years old.
I think having good maintenance records on any machine is the key to the value of the machine, be it a tractor, car, airplane, boat or anything mechanical. Thank you, Neil.
Nicely done video again, Neil. The beat "package deal" is a great dealer who'll understand what you're going to really be doing with the machine first, then recommends specific tractor accessories and implements and sticks to those recommendations even if they know those items will take a while to come in, in today's environment. There's nothing like a solid dealer recommendation that matches the work to keep you coming back for more in the future when the work changes.
I can see it now, in 20 years we will have Kubota Man (Neil) replacing Winnebago Man (Jack Rebney) with an ultimate outakes video shared on UA-cam. I think about that every time I see Neil's outakes. 😁 Great video as always Neil!
0:28 I need to get a M8-201 with a 60" finish mower please to mow my yard! Bigger is better! Oh almost forgot, I will need turf tires on that as well! 🤷♀️🤷♀️
Certainly you may be limited on the deals that you'll be able to make on up-market used machines with limited age and wear, but i think something that's always worth considering when buying machinery is whether or not you'll be doing just as well with an older used machine. Plenty of machines from 20-30 years ago are still perfectly usable today and still have a lot of life left in them. Many of them are after all built to last. Of course they will be missing a lot of modern comfort features and they will be in used condition with all the things which that implies, but at the same time they will often be available at a fraction of the cost of a new machine. If you're a homeowner who won't be using your machine constantly for your living, then a lot of these older machines can make a lot of sense for you and allow you to save a lot of money while still being able to do what you need to do. Buying old machines may even be advantageous in the sense that all their faults and flaws are usually well-known and documented, allowing you to check what to look out for and what models to avoid before making a purchase. Can't really do that with a new machine. So that would be my recommendation. Before buying a brand new machine, check what older machines are available in your area, and make sure that you can't get a better deal on what you need by buying one of those.
Neil, I found by experience my 1st Kubota tractor 🚜 was a manual shift with a loader. Big mistake traded in on a B1750HST then years later traded it in on a grand L 3030 HST one week later traded in on an L3830. A week later I purchased my b1750 hst back from the dealer. Two things that are very important HP is extremely important in my application wish I would have bought the L4630 with the 823 loaded. Horse power does matter. Two machines work perfectly for me👍😊
I've been looking at used tractors for years, and yeah, I think a new one would be far better. I'm trying to avoid financing stuff, but sometimes it's the easier route to take, especially with a 0% interest offer.
Wise words. I have an L3700 that I've used to domesticate about 40 acres here in the PNW. I've dreamed of the day I get a new ~40hp L series but stopping to consider a BX, and all of the tight spaces I could fit it, the less fuel I'd be hauling around, etc... you've definitely helped plant a seed in my head 👍 thank you
BEEH Fedex, I agree! LOL Many good topics covered, great advice too. The one about new vs used is the #1 at today's market rates. A used L4060 HSTC is nearly the price of a new L4060 HSTC, and if lucky can find one less than 5 years old. If older than that, interest rates go up. So lets say you find one, $38,000, and a new one, $42,000. The difference in cost is $5,000. A 60 month loan on 38,000 comes out to $5,026 in interest. SO not only does that 5 YO tractor cost $26 more, it also did not have a warranty, it was someone elses machine before you and no idea how it was treated. Kubota has a 0 down, 0% for 84 month plan right now, so not only do you save on interest, you can finance the entire amount, at a lower monthly payment instead of 10-20% down on the used. Seems like a WIn/WIn. One other thing mentioned was options at time of purchase. Yes and No. I can see not loading up every option, but some options, especially on cab models, like the remote outlets in the rear, if you need one, get all 3. Why? Labor costs is the same whether it is one set of ports, or all three sets of ports. So if you get one set now, and down the road realize hey should have got two, it costs you the same amount of labor to install that second port as it did the first port. If you plan to install it all yourself, then buy the options afterwards, it appears the parts cost the same as when optioned at build out.
So many great points as always, but I can't really agree with your comments at 5:55 that individual homeowners, first time buyers, don't advocate in a healthy way. That is perhaps true sometimes, but it's also a pretty broad statement. There are a lot of new equipment owners who post videos showing both equipment shortcomings and operator errors. I don't see many dealer videos out there pointing out shortcomings of the products they stock and sell either. And that's ok imo because buyers can listening to a bunch of subjective/objective qualities about one brand and a bunch of subjective/objective qualities about another and piece that together to make their own personal decision. If I'm being honest with myself though, I can't imagine how a first time buyer would do this without also having the educational resources available that Messick's provides to this community.
@@MessicksEquip Lol, you must have watched some of my videos because that's the case most of the time with me. Upside is that most of the time the comments section is quick to point out operator shortcomings and errors.
Thank you, Neil. We have a 23s and our dealer try to sell us the SPL1060 snow pusher. What are you thoughts on this? We ended up buying the SPLO560 thinking it would be lighter for our machine and more applicable for our use case.
Neil, what about implement and attachment storage for those of us with limited space? What solutions are out there, recommendations, etc. I don't really want to leave any of my implements or attachments out in the weather but I have quite limited storage space.
My dealership I bought my BX from closed and moved to New Jersey with no notice. So now there is exactly 0 Kubota delaers on Long Island. When I went to get a tire repaired on my SSV I had to go to the New Holland dealer and was told they were planning to become a Kubota dealer since Farm Rite abandoned Long Island. So choose your dealer wisely, I should have driven to PA!!
the dealership part is very true. ask anyone that bought a MTZ ( Belarus). 20 of no parts killed most of them. strongly looking at Mahindra, not a bad tractor but often sold at chainsaw place. that doesn't really service them. and may drop the brand pretty fast.
As much as i like to believe that there are salesmen who truly have the customer's best interests in mind, what you said is the absolute truth. While most may not outright lie to you since that's an obvious bad business stratedgy in the long run, i think a lot of salespeople tell half-truths and dress things up to present them as more attractive than they really are. They straddle that very thin line between what the customer needs and what the dealership wants to sell. Some do a better job than others. At the end of the day you have to look out for your own interests and do your own research if you don't want to get burned. Ain't nobody going to look out for you if you don't look out for yourself.
I’ve learned when buying tractors it really doesn’t save much $ vs buying new when the used tractor is less than 10 years old! Plus being a tractor you have no idea how bad the tractor may have been abused or neglected other than appearances.
Used equipment for agriculture can be a trap when it has moving parts. As a buyer it is hard to see how the bearings, gaskets, gauges, hydro motors and valves are. You buy it and suddenly there is noise or an inbalance or what ever. And that is the moment you'll find out that parts for agricultural machines are very expensive and if a mechanic ought to touch it, it even will be much more expensive.
Mahindra does that with a tractor/trailer/implement deal. It’s funny that you mentioned this particular myth. I have never studied the quality of that said deal but I would be skeptical nonetheless. Wouldn’t buy a mahindra ever but it reminded me of some dealer vids that I have seen with this exact package sitting in the background
@@MessicksEquip , thank you for your quick response! I would consider DOC to be “emissions” equipment. They’re also saying that the Simpson engines in them are the same Perkins engines of the 80’s/90’s. I’ve been to the dealership to look at one twice and couldn’t find anyone to help me either time. I restore lots of the older 200 series MF’s, and they groan anytime I call to ask about parts because it’s for an older tractor (even though I always have a part number ready for them.) Wish we had a Messick’s in TX!
The package deal is funny..I looked at them and the grapple on one of the packages is the same one I have that cost me 1450 shipped to me and in the package mathematics says to me they are selling it for 2500 so they make an extra 1050 on the grapple alone
Emissions. Any machine over 26HP has emissions. But pretty much all machines under 26HP do not. So I agree, if you're buying a bigger machine, that's true. But not true on a smaller machine. There's an argument that someone who's looking at a 26HP or a 30HP machine might be a bit better off with the cheaper/simpler machine, particularly if they're not putting a lot of hours on it and it'll need to last them 20 years.
Machines under 26 horsepower do have emissions requirements. Their engines are tuned to meet them without after treatment. It's still a different engine than tier 2 and 3.
@@MessicksEquip I agree they have to meet emissions requirements. But those requirements are somewhat more lax - so they generally can be met without specific additional treatments or filters. It's not that those filters are a problem in a machine that's used properly - if you run at target revs for the PTO all the time, you'll never see your emissions equipment at all. In that compact/subcompact range though, there are a lot of homeowner users. At that level, people can be in the habit of idling around a lot, and they also put very few hours on their machines. Emissions equipment doesn't really like being run cold, and doesn't really like sitting for months between use. So, looking at an L2501 for example, that's a quite large engine that's been tuned down, and if that's actually all the machine you need, it's a great price (fewer parts), and pretty simple to maintain. I wouldn't specifically go out to buy a machine without emissions, but if you're in that size bracket, and you're generally doing homeowner type tasks, it's worth looking at a L2501, LX2610, as compared to the next model up in that same range. And back to your original statement - I think it would be correct for a dealer to say "this machine has no emissions on it." Sure, it has to meet an emissions regulation, but in terms of common usage of words - no it has no extra filters, fluids or other "emissions equipment." So I think a dealer isn't lying if they said an L2501 had "no emissions on it".
@@MessicksEquip Other than comfort will the tractor hold up? I I’m not worried about how long it takes me to do a job since this will be my hobby in retirement. My concern is Wille LX 3310 run a bush hog sturdy enough to to use regularly without breaking it? What do you suggest moving up to the L series like the L 3560?
I always despise going to my Kubota-Dealer. Basically everyone has been there years but zero have looked at the maintenance in any of the manuals. I'd prefer not to speak to anyone there & grab my filters off a shelf like I would at any other store with no expertise.
Lol you said that what people have had as far as with heavy trucks is not the same as with tractors that's not true at all I have both does not matter what the brand is if you actually put a lot of hours on any tractor the majority of problems you're going to have with it or going to be related to the emissions systems also like any modern day truck any problem you're going to have well the majority of any of your problems I mean are going to be emissions related it has nothing to do with a truck they're being worked and driven hard everyday and then when tractors are worked hard and driven every day they have a huge amount of emissions problems every one of them is like this it does not matter who the owner is how they take care of it
What brand of tractor do you have that is giving you emissions problems, and how old is it? What Neil is saying is the current technology no longer causes significant emissions issues in MOST brands. Some brands still use older technology emission control and that will cause problems.
Enjoyed the video and love yalls content, but I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with the cash thought process. 100% of repos happen to equipment on a loan. Paid off things can’t be taken when times are tough.
Ok i have a myth for you that maybe you can try to explain. Im disabled, have heard that some companies don’t like and wont give you a loan on equipment, vehicles etc etc because of being on social security disability?? Since ive been on SSDI i have not purchased expensive items on credit, i know my credit score is 835. So with this myth being said, and my credit score is almost excellent, what would messicks say if i walked in the door and wanted to finance a kubota compact track loader?
They would sell you whatever you wanted as long as your debt ratio is reasonable I have a lifelong friend who is in the same situation and he has zero issues getting loans etc
Matt Canfield hey thats good to know, thank you for replying! Im getting ready to start shopping and well enough to come off disability and get back in the workforce. Another myth I’ve been hearing is grants for the disabled, getting government grants to start a small business, i think its scammers trying to rob the disabled thinking they get free money.
First off, let me say that I love the content you put out. I may have watched every video you've made on this channel and I have learned so much valuable information from what you have shared. With that said, the comments you just made about buying something with credit versus paying with cash is awful...just plain AWFUL. What you're saying is, "Go ahead and borrow whatever it takes to get what you want...financing is 'better'." Cash is always better. Nobody ever built a 7-figure net worth by borrowing money to purchase things. I know you would lose sales with that message, but it's fact. I guess I just forgot you're a salesman, since you've done so much good work sharing great information.
I literally mean what I said. It's math. The cash discounts are so stingy, that if you can get any decent return on your money in the stock market or a good CD, You will make money using financing. Counterintuitive I know, but it's often true. For example, $20,000 tractor with a $400 cash discount for 5 years. Why not put your money to work?
@@MessicksEquip - Guess how many tractors are repo'd after being paid for with cash? Debt-financing is destroying this nation, from the top all the way down to the average consumer. This is especially true for anyone buying a tractor who does not need one to generate income. Yes, convincing people to finance things they can't afford is critical to your business model, but it's still not the right long-term decision for anyone's bottom line. If you want to debate the math, talk to anyone with a high net worth and ask them if they got there borrowing money...very, very few of them did.
@@jasonbroom7147 I agree with your view here, however we are discussing 0% rates, 20k borrowed is 20k owed, if one has 20k cash they can take that cash and invest it for a much larger return vs spending it all upfront on a depreciating debt, use your money to make money, that’s how people build wealth, and your analogy that no wealthy person borrows money if flat out wrong. Investors borrowing at 2% is worth that to them when their cash is making them 10-20% returns. Financing with big interest is another debate and you are 100% correct regarding that.
@@SCDeerAddict - There are definitely some people who use debt-financing to facilitate investing. It is a poor business model and downright irresponsible, if the object being financed is discretionary. When average people build a net worth of 7 figures or more, as my wife and I have done, statistics show that more than 90% of those people do so by first eliminating all debt and then avoiding it, using the power of their income and compound interest to build wealth. Corporations and so-called "high finance" companies use debt to acquire assets, ostensibly under the premise of increasing value. These same corporations, and our government, do so at significantly increased risk. Individuals who are buying something like a compact tractor are buying into the credit mantra, and betting that everything will go well until they have it paid off. To paraphrase a great saying: A fool and his tractor are soon separated.
@@jasonbroom7147 Maybe so for most. I financed at 0% and have the cash to pay it off anytime I see fit, I rather use that money in the stock market and real estate where I get a return on my money vs a orange yard ornament when my Kubota is not in use. Real estate investors leverage borrowed money all the time and it works. Your way can work, but requires much larger capital to sustain.
On number 2 of your so-called myths cash and not having debt is vastly superior than trying to manipulate a quarter of a quarter of a quarter of a percent of a debt in the stock market that goes up-and-down left and right, and you end up still with monthly payments on a machine you could have just bought with cash and not have that issue. Find debt it's stupid period end dot
As usual, another great and informative video... THANKS Neil. And as usual again, your comments about dealership integrity is spot on correct. Before buying a new tractor, I visited two John Deere dealerships and was amazed at my reception! More bluntly, shocked at how little attention I received when I walked through the front door! After getting the same "cold shoulder" from another Deere dealership, I simply drove across the highway to the local Kubota dealership where I was greeted on the parking lot with a big smile and "Can I help you find something?" It was there at Paris Farm & Ranch Kubota (Paris, Texas), that I bought my Kubota L4060 LE, with a variety of recommended attachments with zero % financing and reasonable monthly payments! And the salesman, Corey Gray, remains my "go to person" anytime a need arises! Yes brand and dealership is at least 90% of the deal!!! By the way, prior to the purchase, I was able to get some very helpful advice from Messick's also... you helped me chose the 4060 over the L3901 that I was considering, because of the advantages of the loader lift capacity and PTO power of the 4060. Thanks! D. Foote (Hurst, TX).
3 rd function should be a standard from the factory instead of cobing it on afterwards
Same with two rear ones. One with a detent float and one with detent open flow (whatever the proper name for that is).
In Australia a 4 in 1 front end loader is almost standard equipment on all sub compact to utility tractors sold with a loader. So they are plumbed with a third function at the front. Not many are sold with a standard bucket. I think we can thank the cheap Chinese tractors for this. Cheap Chinese tractors hit Australia & they all had 4 in 1 loaders. So brands like Kubota had to follow suit.
In regards to two sets of hydraulic remotes at the back, fewer tractors have it. Mine does but I had to get the optional second set when I bought the tractor. I kind of think I should have got a third set of remotes.
It is on like 100 horsepower tractor
Grew up farming on a large Dairy farm and farmed until 42, never had 3rd function. Now have worked in dealerships 12 years, so I have sold many 3rd function machines.... Many people do not need or want it, especially for the cost it takes to have it.
This video is three years old and most of the information you provide is still relevant and valuable. Keep up the excellent videos! Thanks for informing us. 🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸
The group deals is true. A local shop had one and the trailer weight rating was lower than the weight of the tractor combo!
Neil I believe this was a good video for EVERYBODY. The one wish I have is that all salesmen would tell you the truth. I totally agree that a strong service department on anything is worth the extra cost. Customer service in this country needs to strongly improve including talk with a knowledgeable person versus a voice message recorder.
"All eguipment is good" The "owners honesty" at 5:33 is a thing, not only with tractors.
As a recent customer, purchasing a brand new Kubota tractor as well as multiple implements, these people put their money where their mouth is! I cannot recommend them enough, and that is after comparing my service and sales experience with them to others in the past. There is nothing like Messicks!👍💪
Keep up the UA-cam for great and educational I am a old guy that's been on a trailer all my life but I still learn from you thank you Neil
As far as implements go... your better off renting some stuff than ever buying it. Like a post-hole auger. I own one, with 2 bits. We used it solidly for almost a week, and maybe twice since. Renting it for a week for $150 vs spending $900 on it with a 7 inch and 12inch bit was unnecessary. Another item is a brush mower. I use mine constantly, but I have friends that spent $2,000 on a brush mower that they mow an acre or 5 with once a year for a couple hours. One can be rented for $100 a day during the week and $225 for Friday-Sunday.
That's a great point on renting VS buying. I think I might use a post auger maybe once every few years, but I can borrow one in my case and not have to rent, but a brush mower I'd have to rent, and I'd maybe need one once a year.
Very good point. Or buy used and sell after you no longer need it.. but then you do have to determine the cost of your time.
@@DougFrantz Either way if you rent or buy, you still have to figure the time you've spent with either....One other thing is if you have a friend or neighbor that you can go in together on implements and share the cost, it maybe a possibility as well.
@@wildbill23c Just make sure that you'll get along with whoever you're buying with. Co-owning machinery with someone who you've had a falling out can be a nightmare.
@@Fraggr92 No co-buyer, just myself, and paid cash.
You're right about buying used vs new. I was going to upgrade from my M6040 to an M5-111 and rather than trade in my old tractor I was trying to sell it outright. I had it sold to about 3 different people until they went to the bank and figured out they could buy a brand new M6060 for a lower payment than buying my used tractor. The finance term was longer on the new tractor and it was at 0 interest so it made more sense to pay $350 a month for 5 years instead $450 a month for 3. PS i just made those numbers up to illistrate the point I didn't actually do any math.
Let's be honest- manufacturers and dealers don't like cash because they make MORE money if the customer finances the equipment. Whether you finance or buy cash, the dealer still gets their money either way. But if you finance, they might get an extra commission from the bank/finance company for selling the loan, and the bank/finance company gets the interest on the loan. With that in mind, why would dealers or manufacturers be incentivized to give you a cash discount and make even LESS money on a cash sale? They wouldn't, so it's silly when someone walks into a dealership and thinks they're going to be treated special just because they want to pay cash. The only time cash was king is when dealers held the customer loans themselves, or when unscrupulous dealers wanted to underreport sales.
I have several videos on this. We don't make more when you finance. Cash or finance makes no difference to us.
I think you also get better value for money on used implements. A lot of people buy an implement, don’t use it much, and either sell it or trade in. I got a disk last year for about 40% off, and it still had paint on the disks. I don’t think it had been used for a full hour. Look hard and you can get good value.
I bought a used brush-hog 3 years ago and it looked like it was 10 years old when i got it... still using it today!
I wanted to get a flail mower as well when I brought my tractor but it happened to add just enough to push my tractor to the next bracket and increase the interest rate offered by the bank on my purchase price.sometimes a smaller purchase price can be accepted by smaller banks with a better interest rate than the big ones at least it was in my experience
Neil great video as always! I’m subscribed and always looking to learn something new. I’ve watched most of your videos over the last five plus years. I’m also in that category of first time tractor owners trying to help folks out and share some of the lessons learned. I can see being biased by owning a certain brand, but I’m humble enough to know there are some trade offs that I personally made compared to what other brands offer. Dealers really are what make the difference. Great points throughout the video. Brand longevity is another point in the category of “not all brands are equal/good”…Cabella’s had some nice rebadged tractors a couple years back…Cub Cadet had some nice looking tractors…but you don’t see those anymore except in the classified ads. I also see those “tractor packages” and concur with the trailer example.
That was a nice SVL-75 you were talking through emissions on in the video.
Overall another great video!
If I were buying a used tractor and the seller had kept a maintenance log, I'd know the machine was well cared for. Last year I traded in my B3300 SU for an L3560. The dealership knew I kept good care of my trade in because A) I kept a log, and B) I bought all OEM filters etc from them.
Also, when I bought my B3300 SU from them 10 years ago, I had a long talk with the service department guys. I asked them what a tractor owner could do to cut down on service work. One guy said, "Get religious about the preventive maintenance; lube your loader, etc, blow dust, etc off your radiator and engine filters, keep dirt and water out of your fuel, and change oil and filters at the recomended intervals.
Agree. I once went to look at an older used tractor that had a lot of hours on it. I was giving it the once over, checking fluids, etc. but I couldn't find the dipstick for the transmission. I asked the owner where the dipstick was located and he said he didn't know. I said thank you very much but I don't think this machine is quite what I'm looking for and left. :-)
Neil is the best salesman even when he’s not actively trying to sell. Love your video’s. I live in nj and just started buying parts from your dealership. My local ones don’t stock much and if I have to get it shipped anyway may as well get it from you guys. By the way you stocked every thing I needed and my case 1825 is 30 years old.
Thanks, glad to hear it.
I think having good maintenance records on any machine is the key to the value of the machine, be it a tractor, car, airplane, boat or anything mechanical. Thank you, Neil.
Nicely done video again, Neil. The beat "package deal" is a great dealer who'll understand what you're going to really be doing with the machine first, then recommends specific tractor accessories and implements and sticks to those recommendations even if they know those items will take a while to come in, in today's environment. There's nothing like a solid dealer recommendation that matches the work to keep you coming back for more in the future when the work changes.
I can see it now, in 20 years we will have Kubota Man (Neil) replacing Winnebago Man (Jack Rebney) with an ultimate outakes video shared on UA-cam. I think about that every time I see Neil's outakes. 😁
Great video as always Neil!
0:28 I need to get a M8-201 with a 60" finish mower please to mow my yard! Bigger is better! Oh almost forgot, I will need turf tires on that as well! 🤷♀️🤷♀️
Very good content. long time subscriber and yes, I learned a lot thanks to this channel. thank you
Seat time is a great teacher.
Certainly you may be limited on the deals that you'll be able to make on up-market used machines with limited age and wear, but i think something that's always worth considering when buying machinery is whether or not you'll be doing just as well with an older used machine. Plenty of machines from 20-30 years ago are still perfectly usable today and still have a lot of life left in them. Many of them are after all built to last. Of course they will be missing a lot of modern comfort features and they will be in used condition with all the things which that implies, but at the same time they will often be available at a fraction of the cost of a new machine. If you're a homeowner who won't be using your machine constantly for your living, then a lot of these older machines can make a lot of sense for you and allow you to save a lot of money while still being able to do what you need to do. Buying old machines may even be advantageous in the sense that all their faults and flaws are usually well-known and documented, allowing you to check what to look out for and what models to avoid before making a purchase. Can't really do that with a new machine.
So that would be my recommendation. Before buying a brand new machine, check what older machines are available in your area, and make sure that you can't get a better deal on what you need by buying one of those.
Great video! Please keep us updated on the progress of your new build too .
Neil, I found by experience my 1st Kubota tractor 🚜 was a manual shift with a loader. Big mistake traded in on a B1750HST then years later traded it in on a grand L 3030 HST one week later traded in on an L3830. A week later I purchased my b1750 hst back from the dealer. Two things that are very important HP is extremely important in my application wish I would have bought the L4630 with the 823 loaded. Horse power does matter. Two machines work perfectly for me👍😊
Good stuff and thanks. Is the set up for the 50 hour service the same on a 2019 BX 1880 as it is for the BX2380
Wow! One of the best yet! Thanks.
I've been looking at used tractors for years, and yeah, I think a new one would be far better. I'm trying to avoid financing stuff, but sometimes it's the easier route to take, especially with a 0% interest offer.
Working on getting a BX to go with my L4701, eventually (when the property is domesticated) I’ll sell the L4701
Wise words. I have an L3700 that I've used to domesticate about 40 acres here in the PNW. I've dreamed of the day I get a new ~40hp L series but stopping to consider a BX, and all of the tight spaces I could fit it, the less fuel I'd be hauling around, etc... you've definitely helped plant a seed in my head 👍 thank you
BEEH Fedex, I agree! LOL Many good topics covered, great advice too. The one about new vs used is the #1 at today's market rates. A used L4060 HSTC is nearly the price of a new L4060 HSTC, and if lucky can find one less than 5 years old. If older than that, interest rates go up. So lets say you find one, $38,000, and a new one, $42,000. The difference in cost is $5,000. A 60 month loan on 38,000 comes out to $5,026 in interest. SO not only does that 5 YO tractor cost $26 more, it also did not have a warranty, it was someone elses machine before you and no idea how it was treated. Kubota has a 0 down, 0% for 84 month plan right now, so not only do you save on interest, you can finance the entire amount, at a lower monthly payment instead of 10-20% down on the used. Seems like a WIn/WIn. One other thing mentioned was options at time of purchase. Yes and No. I can see not loading up every option, but some options, especially on cab models, like the remote outlets in the rear, if you need one, get all 3. Why? Labor costs is the same whether it is one set of ports, or all three sets of ports. So if you get one set now, and down the road realize hey should have got two, it costs you the same amount of labor to install that second port as it did the first port. If you plan to install it all yourself, then buy the options afterwards, it appears the parts cost the same as when optioned at build out.
So many great points as always, but I can't really agree with your comments at 5:55 that individual homeowners, first time buyers, don't advocate in a healthy way. That is perhaps true sometimes, but it's also a pretty broad statement. There are a lot of new equipment owners who post videos showing both equipment shortcomings and operator errors. I don't see many dealer videos out there pointing out shortcomings of the products they stock and sell either. And that's ok imo because buyers can listening to a bunch of subjective/objective qualities about one brand and a bunch of subjective/objective qualities about another and piece that together to make their own personal decision. If I'm being honest with myself though, I can't imagine how a first time buyer would do this without also having the educational resources available that Messick's provides to this community.
My beef with first time buyer videos is that 90% of the time the shortcoming is sitting in the operator seat.
@@MessicksEquip Lol, you must have watched some of my videos because that's the case most of the time with me. Upside is that most of the time the comments section is quick to point out operator shortcomings and errors.
Thank you everything you said was so true
Thank you, Neil. We have a 23s and our dealer try to sell us the SPL1060 snow pusher. What are you thoughts on this? We ended up buying the SPLO560 thinking it would be lighter for our machine and more applicable for our use case.
Your right, your dealer is wrong.
Neil, what about implement and attachment storage for those of us with limited space? What solutions are out there, recommendations, etc. I don't really want to leave any of my implements or attachments out in the weather but I have quite limited storage space.
I'm in the same boat, let me know what you find.
@@MessicksEquip I'll try and remember and let ya know. Probably going to be a while, dealer is out of BX machines indefinitely.
@@wildbill23c just got a B2401 finally, dealer had tractor but took months to get a loader
My dealership I bought my BX from closed and moved to New Jersey with no notice. So now there is exactly 0 Kubota delaers on Long Island. When I went to get a tire repaired on my SSV I had to go to the New Holland dealer and was told they were planning to become a Kubota dealer since Farm Rite abandoned Long Island. So choose your dealer wisely, I should have driven to PA!!
We do a lot of business up there.
Good stuff! Sure would like to see some of that BH100 in the background!
the dealership part is very true. ask anyone that bought a MTZ ( Belarus). 20 of no parts killed most of them.
strongly looking at Mahindra, not a bad tractor but often sold at chainsaw place. that doesn't really service them. and may drop the brand pretty fast.
Mahindra is trash
That is something I have never heard, A salesman lying to you to make a sale.. LOL If that guy works commission he lies.
As much as i like to believe that there are salesmen who truly have the customer's best interests in mind, what you said is the absolute truth. While most may not outright lie to you since that's an obvious bad business stratedgy in the long run, i think a lot of salespeople tell half-truths and dress things up to present them as more attractive than they really are. They straddle that very thin line between what the customer needs and what the dealership wants to sell. Some do a better job than others.
At the end of the day you have to look out for your own interests and do your own research if you don't want to get burned. Ain't nobody going to look out for you if you don't look out for yourself.
Most of the package deals just get you kicked in your package
Good advice Neil.Thanks.
I’ve learned when buying tractors it really doesn’t save much $ vs buying new when the used tractor is less than 10 years old!
Plus being a tractor you have no idea how bad the tractor may have been abused or neglected other than appearances.
I learned this the hard way...grapple is not appropriate for my use
Great advice, Neil.
Sound advice Neil; thank you! Best regards.
Really good tips, Neil.
Used equipment for agriculture can be a trap when it has moving parts. As a buyer it is hard to see how the bearings, gaskets, gauges, hydro motors and valves are. You buy it and suddenly there is noise or an inbalance or what ever. And that is the moment you'll find out that parts for agricultural machines are very expensive and if a mechanic ought to touch it, it even will be much more expensive.
What about the new Holland Workmaster 75, it doesn't have DEF or Regen.
DOC only, 95% the same thing. Just does not cycle.
Thanks, Neil - that is good information
Excellent video! Keep up the good work.
Kubota actually has better financing deals than cash discounts.
always has.
I’m not a farmer but the videos are very informative.
Wish you were a little closer I'm in western PA need to trade in
Glad to help. Sales@messicks.com
@@MessicksEquip I'm 50 northeast of Pittsburgh how far is the dealership away
@@larrybryan8913 about 10 minutes off the Harrisburg turnpike exit.
Mahindra does that with a tractor/trailer/implement deal. It’s funny that you mentioned this particular myth. I have never studied the quality of that said deal but I would be skeptical nonetheless. Wouldn’t buy a mahindra ever but it reminded me of some dealer vids that I have seen with this exact package sitting in the background
I love my little mahindra its a great little tractor it does everything that ive asked it to and it does it better then I expected
Neil, Massey Ferguson says their 2600h series does not have emissions equipment all the way up to the 74hp model. Is this true?
Yes it has an emissions system. It's a DOC engine, same as some of the New Hollands we sell.
@@MessicksEquip , thank you for your quick response! I would consider DOC to be “emissions” equipment. They’re also saying that the Simpson engines in them are the same Perkins engines of the 80’s/90’s. I’ve been to the dealership to look at one twice and couldn’t find anyone to help me either time. I restore lots of the older 200 series MF’s, and they groan anytime I call to ask about parts because it’s for an older tractor (even though I always have a part number ready for them.) Wish we had a Messick’s in TX!
Absolutely totally agree with every single thing
The package deal is funny..I looked at them and the grapple on one of the packages is the same one I have that cost me 1450 shipped to me and in the package mathematics says to me they are selling it for 2500 so they make an extra 1050 on the grapple alone
Emissions. Any machine over 26HP has emissions. But pretty much all machines under 26HP do not. So I agree, if you're buying a bigger machine, that's true. But not true on a smaller machine. There's an argument that someone who's looking at a 26HP or a 30HP machine might be a bit better off with the cheaper/simpler machine, particularly if they're not putting a lot of hours on it and it'll need to last them 20 years.
Machines under 26 horsepower do have emissions requirements. Their engines are tuned to meet them without after treatment. It's still a different engine than tier 2 and 3.
@@MessicksEquip I agree they have to meet emissions requirements. But those requirements are somewhat more lax - so they generally can be met without specific additional treatments or filters. It's not that those filters are a problem in a machine that's used properly - if you run at target revs for the PTO all the time, you'll never see your emissions equipment at all.
In that compact/subcompact range though, there are a lot of homeowner users. At that level, people can be in the habit of idling around a lot, and they also put very few hours on their machines. Emissions equipment doesn't really like being run cold, and doesn't really like sitting for months between use. So, looking at an L2501 for example, that's a quite large engine that's been tuned down, and if that's actually all the machine you need, it's a great price (fewer parts), and pretty simple to maintain. I wouldn't specifically go out to buy a machine without emissions, but if you're in that size bracket, and you're generally doing homeowner type tasks, it's worth looking at a L2501, LX2610, as compared to the next model up in that same range.
And back to your original statement - I think it would be correct for a dealer to say "this machine has no emissions on it." Sure, it has to meet an emissions regulation, but in terms of common usage of words - no it has no extra filters, fluids or other "emissions equipment." So I think a dealer isn't lying if they said an L2501 had "no emissions on it".
@@paullambert2668 your not wrong. I was more referencing those who call DOC only engines emmissons free because they don't run a regen cycle.
@@MessicksEquip Agree. That's clearly incorrect. But thought the below 26HP detail was important to some people.
Hi Neil , is it possible to ship a tractor from the States to overseas ?
Most of our dealer contracts forbid it. We can with used ones.
@@MessicksEquip
Thanks for letting me know. I book marked your web site and will follow if something come up. 🙏
Is the LX 3310 big enough to run a retirement bush hog business? I’m not looking to do work every day, Just two or three days a week.
I'd want something with a larger wheel base for comfort.
@@MessicksEquip Other than comfort will the tractor hold up? I I’m not worried about how long it takes me to do a job since this will be my hobby in retirement. My concern is Wille LX 3310 run a bush hog sturdy enough to to use regularly without breaking it? What do you suggest moving up to the L series like the L 3560?
@@TimeAfterTym LX is a great tractor, no worries there. An L3560 would be ideal.
I always despise going to my Kubota-Dealer. Basically everyone has been there years but zero have looked at the maintenance in any of the manuals. I'd prefer not to speak to anyone there & grab my filters off a shelf like I would at any other store with no expertise.
Appreciate your honesty. Good post.👍
Who wouldn't want a case magnum 245 to mow their yard ?
Thanks, good info
Lol you said that what people have had as far as with heavy trucks is not the same as with tractors that's not true at all I have both does not matter what the brand is if you actually put a lot of hours on any tractor the majority of problems you're going to have with it or going to be related to the emissions systems also like any modern day truck any problem you're going to have well the majority of any of your problems I mean are going to be emissions related it has nothing to do with a truck they're being worked and driven hard everyday and then when tractors are worked hard and driven every day they have a huge amount of emissions problems every one of them is like this it does not matter who the owner is how they take care of it
What brand of tractor do you have that is giving you emissions problems, and how old is it? What Neil is saying is the current technology no longer causes significant emissions issues in MOST brands. Some brands still use older technology emission control and that will cause problems.
Great info. very helpful
Good and informative video!
love your videos
He there Neil, I was wondering if I could buy a b2301 from you. I live 3 hours away. Please respond back.
I don't sell directly, but you certainly could work with one of my salespeople. Sales@messicks.com
Enjoyed the video and love yalls content, but I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with the cash thought process. 100% of repos happen to equipment on a loan. Paid off things can’t be taken when times are tough.
yes def stuff sucks
Wish you all were closer all the dealers here are useless. Unless johndeer and who wants to pay for green paint on other brands implaments
Bought into!!
Better known as fanboi
Ok i have a myth for you that maybe you can try to explain. Im disabled, have heard that some companies don’t like and wont give you a loan on equipment, vehicles etc etc because of being on social security disability?? Since ive been on SSDI i have not purchased expensive items on credit, i know my credit score is 835. So with this myth being said, and my credit score is almost excellent, what would messicks say if i walked in the door and wanted to finance a kubota compact track loader?
They would sell you whatever you wanted as long as your debt ratio is reasonable I have a lifelong friend who is in the same situation and he has zero issues getting loans etc
Matt Canfield hey thats good to know, thank you for replying! Im getting ready to start shopping and well enough to come off disability and get back in the workforce. Another myth I’ve been hearing is grants for the disabled, getting government grants to start a small business, i think its scammers trying to rob the disabled thinking they get free money.
First off, let me say that I love the content you put out. I may have watched every video you've made on this channel and I have learned so much valuable information from what you have shared.
With that said, the comments you just made about buying something with credit versus paying with cash is awful...just plain AWFUL. What you're saying is, "Go ahead and borrow whatever it takes to get what you want...financing is 'better'." Cash is always better. Nobody ever built a 7-figure net worth by borrowing money to purchase things. I know you would lose sales with that message, but it's fact.
I guess I just forgot you're a salesman, since you've done so much good work sharing great information.
I literally mean what I said. It's math. The cash discounts are so stingy, that if you can get any decent return on your money in the stock market or a good CD, You will make money using financing. Counterintuitive I know, but it's often true. For example, $20,000 tractor with a $400 cash discount for 5 years. Why not put your money to work?
@@MessicksEquip - Guess how many tractors are repo'd after being paid for with cash? Debt-financing is destroying this nation, from the top all the way down to the average consumer. This is especially true for anyone buying a tractor who does not need one to generate income. Yes, convincing people to finance things they can't afford is critical to your business model, but it's still not the right long-term decision for anyone's bottom line. If you want to debate the math, talk to anyone with a high net worth and ask them if they got there borrowing money...very, very few of them did.
@@jasonbroom7147 I agree with your view here, however we are discussing 0% rates, 20k borrowed is 20k owed, if one has 20k cash they can take that cash and invest it for a much larger return vs spending it all upfront on a depreciating debt, use your money to make money, that’s how people build wealth, and your analogy that no wealthy person borrows money if flat out wrong. Investors borrowing at 2% is worth that to them when their cash is making them 10-20% returns.
Financing with big interest is another debate and you are 100% correct regarding that.
@@SCDeerAddict - There are definitely some people who use debt-financing to facilitate investing. It is a poor business model and downright irresponsible, if the object being financed is discretionary. When average people build a net worth of 7 figures or more, as my wife and I have done, statistics show that more than 90% of those people do so by first eliminating all debt and then avoiding it, using the power of their income and compound interest to build wealth. Corporations and so-called "high finance" companies use debt to acquire assets, ostensibly under the premise of increasing value. These same corporations, and our government, do so at significantly increased risk. Individuals who are buying something like a compact tractor are buying into the credit mantra, and betting that everything will go well until they have it paid off.
To paraphrase a great saying: A fool and his tractor are soon separated.
@@jasonbroom7147 Maybe so for most.
I financed at 0% and have the cash to pay it off anytime I see fit, I rather use that money in the stock market and real estate where I get a return on my money vs a orange yard ornament when my Kubota is not in use.
Real estate investors leverage borrowed money all the time and it works. Your way can work, but requires much larger capital to sustain.
#3 -- it's called fanboyism
Very good comments I thought!
You say
On number 2 of your so-called myths cash and not having debt is vastly superior than trying to manipulate a quarter of a quarter of a quarter of a percent of a debt in the stock market that goes up-and-down left and right, and you end up still with monthly payments on a machine you could have just bought with cash and not have that issue. Find debt it's stupid period end dot
I definitely saved money financing my tractor versus paying cash
Sell me a LX2610 with a cab lol
Plz respond. Shorten the intro Trevor is bored already.
Watch to the end, that's where they put all the clips of me saying stupid things
@@MessicksEquip ahhh I’ll tell Trevor that makes more sense
Is he a certified financial advisor? Maybe he should not be giving financial advice. I would never put my money in the stock market, its manipulated.
First