SAAB 93 FACTORY DEFECT THAT COST YOU BOOST
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Hello everyone,
In this video you will see what is the proper method of testing your intake system for vacuum and boost leak using the smoke machine or pressure source and soapy water.
I will show some of the most common usually overlooked leaks, that include a factory defect in all saab 93s with the mitsubishi turbo.
The most overlooked boost leaks are :
1. The PCV valve, which cause an internal boost leak and many other symptoms like oil loss, smoke...etc.
2. The bypass valve diaphragm, is another internal leak that require full understanding of the system to be able to diagnose.
3. The factory defect, a missing gasket between the bypass valve and the turbo body.
4. The forth one is a vacuum leak, located at the point where highest vacuum is achieved during driving under boost, the O-ring at the tip of the rear PCV hose where it bolts to the turbo inlet.
If your car has the B207R, or your car has any version of the B207 but made after 2006 then you probably have a mitsubishi turbo.
O-rings used:
Turbo inlet PCV ID9.8 CS2.4mm
Charge pressure Sensor ID8.8 CS1.9mm
ChrisFix soapy water hahaha
Not sure if you'll see this since it's been 4 years, but about to undertake this procedure with my 9-3. I had both of those plastic boost valves fail in the past couple years, and only now have I noticed, and I figured I would also make a gasket for this other part as well. Thank you for the informative video, I'm going to use .08 cm gasket made of rubber and fiber designed for high boost and temperature.
Superb. Brilliant synopsis. I'll be checking mine over
Thank you for this video. Bored as hell at home I decided to check them. Half an hour later my Saab has better boost (no errors/lack of power earlier). Please keep posting videos.
It’s nice to have the right tools!
Older 9-3's had a gasket on that bypass valve, strange how they decided to remove it. I also made my own because I wasn't about to shell out $250 USD for a BPV kit.
Do yourselves a favor and use a regular paper hole punch for the bolt holes. Works perfectly
Amazing. Never knew this could even be an issue. Thank you for this.
Really enjoyed this
Ca must pull like a train now after curing the leaks.
My 2005 has a leak issue,
Not covered by this, but the identification would be the same
Thanks for posting.
Great video. I have a '05 Saab 9-3 2.0T ARC convertible w 77,000 miles and is performing below standard. I'm comparing it to my previous Saab, a '95 900SE 2.0 turbo convertible. I'm going to run through this testing process and see what I can find. A few portions of the video were above my skill level, like spraying soapy water on the bypass then going to the top of the engine to work on something else, then going back to the bypass valve to add a gasket. I understood the gasket issue, but not the other test.
Your channel is a great resource for us Saab owners out there.
Thanks for your help
Believe me its not over ur skill level, its usually the lack of equipment which limits the diyrs, i suggest u find a garage with a smoke machine and just do the test like in the video.
Good luck and thanks
K&N Filters are piece of junk (expensive junk!). Those filters will NOT filtering the air , just allowed the air go through more freely and of course the engine sooner or later will have effect of such "filtering".
additionally to your excellent comment...K&N filters will keep you cleaning the MAF sensor very often, as oil particles and dirt will affect its performance...K&N for idiots!!
Where can I find someone to fix this on my car? Maryland?
I have the same exact problem. Thankfully the leak is small enough that it didn't do any harm to the engine. I also have issues with the ignition and injectors- the engine gets too much fuel which results in uneven revs, and even engine stopping completely if driven on low revs (below 2500 rpm). The car goes to a mechanic next week and until then I don't even attempt starting it. I'll try fixing some small things like passenger door central lock not working and the airbag sensor in the passenger seat.
Did you find out what the issue was?
This is a very concise and easily understood video. You wouldn't by chance have done something like this to the Saab 2.3
Great video,easy follow through instructions with invaluable information thanks a lot for this video!
Almost positive this has been asked before. But where can I purchase that bladder that seals the air intake tube?
Its on eBay, similar to this www.ebay.com/itm/254395924491
Sorry but i couldn't understand... I have a aero 93 2004... Also the mine has that issue?
ill have a go at my 9-3! thanks for the advice M8 :D
Great video, and I myself have recently described since becoming a 9-3 owner. I’m also assuming these faults would also relate to earlier 2003 models to later 2008/‘09? I’m also trying to get into the SAAB tuning and love your videos on this subject too 💪🏼
Another fantastic video. How did you get your engine so ridiculously clean?
Just regular cleaning
I have the B207L. in my case the diaphragm was torn it had a three holes in it (the diaphragm is different than yours). I realized after getting The codes P0244 and P0033. I have changed the diaphram I put a used one but I still have the P0033 code once in a while. I'm going to buy a new diaphragm and see what happen. the cover of the diaphragm has their own gasket in my saab 9-3 2003. Thanks. Excellent video.
Your car will have that gasket as it has the Garret turbo.
For the P0033 it is a little bit more involved code to diagnose without hand on the car, since u suspect the valve change it, but it could be other things like clogged bypass solenoid, or hoses ...etc
Good luck
Great video! I shall be doing this to my 93X with B207R
Does the B284L engine utilize a Mitsubishi turbo? Smoke testing exposes many faults, most affecting performance to some degree.
I never noticed if it is Mitsubishi or not, but the B284 has a different setup anyway and it is not affected by the fault displayed in this video.
Great Video! thanks for passing on your knowledge and experience. What P/N do we need to order for #3? Is the smoke detector procedure derived from SAAB? If not, how do SAAB mechanics check for vacuum leaks? Just by replacing parts until the pressure stabilizes?!
Alex Sakellaris , if you mean the P/N for the gasket unfortunately there in no one, saab does not provide this gasket.
The smoke test here is done not only according to SAAB standards but according to the industry standards as well.
Mechanics use different methods, like using pressure only, water test, combustable gases tests, but the smoke test is proven to be the most accurate one.
Note that, by this test u r testing the charged circuit and most of the vacuum circuit (part of brake vacuum in not included here).
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY thanks for your elaborate answer. I suppose the smoke generator is essentially a water vapor machine. Can't think this is actually carbon baaed, is it?
Alex Sakellaris the machine runs on baby oil funny enough 😬
شكلك عربي بس وين مكانك يا معلم قرفتني الساااب
Where are you located I would pay you to find leaks in my saab lol! Also what equipment did you use in this process?
Im in Dubai .. the smoke tester model is SDT-206 .. cheers
I have same issue on mine bypass valve. I was thinking making my own gasket but from thermal resistive silicone rubber. Its 1.5mm thick, do you think its ok or its too thick? Was thinkig to make it go over bypass membrane ( outside lip) and not around it, so when everything asembled and start torqing the bolts it make pressure and have a good sealing( not allowing air to escape)... What do you think?
I dont suggest any thick material, neither covering the lip of the diaphragm .
I can suggest as well, u remove the cover of the valve, lay it on a flat glass which will reveal any warpage in the mating surface, then u can hummer on a flat steel to make it level, which will omit the need for any gasket .
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY i was thinking doing the same job like you did with paper gasket, just i wanted to use silicone one because it can shape by conture of the mating surfaces. Your gasket is going over outside ring/lip of the membrane as I can see, so membrane is lying on paper gasket. The gasket is sandwiched between membrane and body of the turbo. Am I right?
Over looked by technicians world wide🤔 what you talking about Willis. I got a turbo block off plate there budy! And is it a Mitsubishi turbo or a Garrett t 14... Oh will never know 🤧
80.8f betta aquatic ___ its the Mitsubishi turbos .. a block off plate might bypass the issue, but without a smoke test u will never know
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY why waist the time with a smoke test when you can just by pass and get a nice external bov that sounds great. And maybe you should take a second look at that turbo and find the name Garrett on it
80.8f betta aquatic ___ what ever make u happy man.. im only publishing things that make me happy too 😬
Going to go see if I've got a gasket in there first thing tomorrow! Thanx dude keep em coming!!!
You no anything about the 1996 saab 900 turbo? I have a lean code which seems to be a real mystery on this car people have replaced everything and still not found issue?
The saab saint!
what did you use to make gasket?
Great video. Thank you
In Hungary the services do not use smok machine. Just replace the easy to change parts only:-) Thanks for this relly good video.
I have not got a smoke machine, but would like to replace this 2 o-rings just in case. Could you send me please the exact part number for the main part contains this o rings to find them in my 2004 aero 9-3 2.0T by WIS? It would be a great help because I can not find a good mechanic here:-(
They are not sold by Saab, so no part number, but sizez are in the video description
I can indentify and successfully replacing the o-ring under boost presure sensor. I bought the stronger diverter valve also. Everything is much better. (A local mechanic changed my PCV valve also). The acceleration is much better but my gauge is still under the red lines. I can find the first (black o-ring) from your video. Where is it could you help me pls?
Adam Prancz , the pcv hose going from the back of the valve cover into the turbo, disconnect it and its between the turbo and the hose fitting, but this is a vacuum leak not boost leak.
If ur car is under boosting, u must smoke test it , other component that can fail and cause under boost is the PCV valve (watch my video about it ).
The turbo itslef can be failing as well
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY thank a lot for your help!
You are a very patient, and good man. My Saab auto is lacking on power, it lacks revs say 3000 most time, but next time 5/6 000, could it be the Mac filter.?
What do u mean by the MAC filter ?
Sorry, I meant a MAF FILTER
very useful video, thank you, but how do we get our hands on these testing tools? Do you sell them? or can we rent a smoke machine somewhere?
Derek Chabros i dont think anybody will rent u a smoke machine, u will have to buy urs online .. unfortunately i dont sell any tools
Hello! Thanks for the great video!
Going to do a leak test as my car has a rough idle. Interestingly, when you press the brake, idling stabilizes. Can you suggest what could be the problem? Is it likely that a vacuum leak is causing this effect?
Love your video! its a great step by step tutorial. Can you link this intake plug pump? I'm looking to buy one of these but i could not find it anywhere.
A bolt is defined by its diameter and not its socket size,...just saying
But thank you for for some great information!!
Hello mate! This video is very very helpful. Im fighting with the air leaking problems too. Can you help me a little bit? What size of the 2 O-ring? Thank you!
Im really sorry, but cant remember the sizes, i pulled them out of an old assortment box.
I had to replace these on a car today, and got u the size:
Turbo inlet PCV ID9.8 CS2.4mm
Charge pressure Sensor ID8.8 CS1.9mm
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY Do these have to be exact sizes, or will for instance a 10.0 x 2.5mm o-ring for the PCV and 9.0 x 2.0mm for the charge sensor be okay? The exact sizes you stated do not seem to be easily available in the UK and are expensive to buy specifically. Thank you!
Serena Hansen, any o-ring that sits there tight will do the job .. cant tell for the exact sizes u mentioned, but many generic kits will have sizes around these
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY Thank you so much for such a quick reply! Your videos are very helpful for me with a Vauxhall (Opel) Vectra Z20NET which shares most of the engine set up with these Saab B207s.
Great job, as always! 👌👍
Great video! I ordered graphite gasket sheet and it seems too thick even if it smashes down. I can’t find graphite gasket sheet that are thin accept if it’s foil.
How much boost should my 2003 hold 5-6 sounds really low
I don't understand how you made the gasket, did you just put some sand paper there? I'm genuinely asking, I'm new and want to try this but want everything before I start.
I used special paper gasket material found at any parts store .
Did i suggest to u previously just try making the surface of the valve flat by hammering it on a flat surface !!??
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY no you haven't. I just started trying to figure out what's wrong with my car. It's only half boosting (base boost) and I replaced the BPV and it fixed for two days but now back to half boost
@@lifesquestions5840 any codes stored in the car ??
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY U2143, C0460, B3948, B1023, B3057, U0304, B1019, P1682, P0463, and I need to change the downstream o2, I got the wrong one so it reads a high voltage code but I know its the sensor
So the bypass valve is already replaced ( i assume with new one) so no need for gasket or hammering.
U should look somewhere else.
my saab 9-3 with the b207r i think has a vacuum leak as there is a slight whistle noise from the exhaust at first i thought it might be a collapsed exhaust pipe causing to much back pressure because under heavy load or full boost when i lay onto the throttle it shakes and missfires like crazy but im thinking its a vacuum leak the hoses all look old and could be leaking is this what happens to you when you said it performed badly or was it just low on power? oh and it idles kind of rough so thats why i think it is a vacuum leak there it doesnt do it right away when you start it cold so maybe when the rubber heats up a little bit it causes it or the metal where there isnt a gasket
Symptoms are not the way to go here.
U will have to get familiar with scan tools and read data from the car, and the fuel trims will tell u if its running lean (vacuum leaks) or if its something else.
In addition, when the car misfires under load, its 90% of the time from the coil, 5% old or incorrect spark plugs, 5% all other reasons .
Hi my saab 2008 1.8t has no boost no engine management light on iam any idea whats caused this
Forget about the light, scan for codes anyway
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY thanks for the reply i will plug it in shortly then
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY plugged it in and theres no codes showing strange
@@scottmckenzie1162 its better to wait for codes to pop, mind there are some generic OBD readers will not read some codes from saabs, so u might have to find a tech2
Really interesting video! Does the 9-5 have the same problems?
J1I9M7M4Y we dont have many of them in our market, but the few i saw dont have this turbo so no issue
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY Oh, ok. Thank you for the answer!
Very interesting. Was this never a recall issue?
Andrew Pullen unfortunately not
Hello, first of all great videotutorial. It helps alot.Can you just help me undestand what you are saying/doing on 6:00-6:10 minutes on the video. At this point you are saying something like" this tells me the dia... is ok"..sorry but I dont get it. We saw earlier in the video that bubbles are comming out from that spot and now you are saying that it is OK. I KNOW I have missunderstood what you said or ment so please correct me. Once again thank you for this great video.
By doing that step im only checking the diaphragm integrity inside the valve, if its torn smoke will leak on both sides and it will bubble like the first test.
Hope this answers ur question
seems like nobody ever works on the 2008 saab 9-3
killacaliboy KCBkotastrophie, only the best people does 😉
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY i got a 03 saab 93 key wont start car r unlock wheel
Any messages on the dash ? Did u check the battery voltage ?
wouldn't. be easier with silicon gasket?
I had to stick with the industry standards, although its the cold side of the turbo, but it still can reach high temperature and with oil residues you only have couple of choices when it come to gasket, standard fire resistance paper gasket or graphite based gasket which is the way to go.
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY Got it , thank you for letting me understand
Very informative 👌
اخ بس لو انك بالاردن
هلا بالطراونة كلهم .. والله ما تقول الحجة داعيتلك .. انا يا اخوي بالامارات بس راجع عالاردن اول ما يفتحو المطارات من غير حجر .. ابشر باللي اقدر عليه بس ارجع ..
Good job
I've had a boost leak there ever since I got my first tune 3 years ago, even my new 16T turbo didn't have a gasket there. I've replaced so many bypass valves and never thought about a gasket because there wasn't one there originally. smh lmao
I have the b207r from 2010 too so kinda ridiculous lol
I have a b206 and the pipe going the opposite way from MAF side is disconnected and no clip holding it in place even if I pop it back. Am I missing a clip?
It would be awesome if you could do a tutorial on a doing a vacuum leak test on the 2.8 saab. Is the procedure pretty much the same?
The video is already done, but needs lots of editing.
The procedure is different and much more involved in the 2.8 because of the complicated vacuum/PCV/SAI systems
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY I hope you get some time to post it, I ended up getting a low cost smoke machine to test for leaks but after looking at the wis it is really complicated as you mentioned.
chvydrptop i will try to post u some instructions here .. hopefully will help
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY thanks flying mechanic! My 07 2.8 aero has been giving me some misfires even after changing all the coils and plugs. Codes p0306 p0305 p0304 0303 p0301 p0300 car was ok for 2 days after the new plugs and coil and then popped up again can car ran terrible. Took a look at the plugs and wires and started it and car was fine. Seems like intermittent. I am thinking I might have an air leak or ecu or wiring at injectors issue. I have access to a tech2/WIS and low end smoker now.
chvydrptop are the coils and plugs OEM and did u change all 6?
Vacuum leaks would not be intermittent mostly ..
Is there any other faults stored ?
Check fuel trims while the car is misfiring and post them ..
I will suggest u join saabcentral.com and open a new thread, i will be happy to assist u along with other members..
I have a 2006 9-3 and when the turbo redlines the engine studders. I have no codes and it runs fine, the Turbo seems like its getting to red to quickly HMM Vacuum leak????
Jw Slay not necessary, this is usually a sign of a failing coil, do u have a scanner that can read live data ?
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY Yes I have a scanner, can it check each individual fire?
Jw Slay, yes, u will be able to look at misfire data for each individual cylinder, let the car redlines until u have the studder and while doing so monitor which cylinder is counting misfire, then swap that coil and redo the test
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY I will try it out and have a friend monitor it
would this cause misfires ?
I never saw it does that ..
from which material did you make a gasket? Can we use something that we all probably have in the garage?
It has to be a gasket material that resists oil and fire ..
Dumb question do you ride around without the air filter box?!
Sure not .
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY btw im gonna try the gasket thing, pretty sure that's what's causing some overboost , like the rpms cant keep up with the turbo charger it feels like
Hi sir thank you make all these wonderful videos. I replace fuse 16 under the hood. all of a sudden I can not open the boot lid and the left tail light is on and black does not work. wipes leaves have also laid off. I have a Saab 93 2009 station wagon. I'm troubleshooting and it's just saying earth fault.
So i understand boot doesn’t open, left tail light is ON but which light exactly ?
I did not understand the BLACK thing ? And the WIPERS u mean dont work as well ?
Sir boot dont open. Left tail light dont work, no break light nothing, wipe blad is not working. I check fusebox under the hood. Fuse F17 and F18 shows zero volt. The fuses are fine.
Wiper back dont work but in front is fine. All fault code i get it says Earth fault. My from light works inside om display i get message your light dont work.
@@goro70 from wiring diagrams, there is no ground that these component share, so a ground fault is probably not ur issue, check the rear fuse box for water intrusion/corrosion or any sign of damage, and check each fuse
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY @The Flying MechanicDIY thank you sir i checked yesterday all fuse box. All fuses are ok.fuse nr f17, and F18 are ok but shows it is zero volt. As you said sir i will open and check after water intrusion and corrosion.
Where can one get that pump you used?
Try eBay
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY Does it have name? the little aspirator pump you used?
Wait never mind I finally found it, for anyone looking, on eBay, it's called an "Easy Intake Bladder"
For anyone looking for that exact smoke machine, it's called "Auto SDT-206" It's on a few sites including Aliexpress. This is a very informative video but I wish this information was in the description.
okletsskate sprey for your trouble, i will make sure to include more info in the video description in the future
You said this only effects later models of the 93?
Affect pre2008 with the B207R only, and affect all 2008up 2.0 saabs
Ive read the 2.0T has no pcv valve and I cant find any replacements.
www.esaabparts.com/saab/parts/55557180
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY thank you!!
Liam: it's hidden behind throttle body and fuel rail and intake manifold. It was an absolute pain
Did you replace the pcv in the intake or just the oring?
It was replaced, if leaks air in both directions then it is internally broken.
The Flying MechanicDIY can you replace it without intake removal?
Where can i get this smoke machine ?
Depend on your location, you can compare both eBay and Aliexpress.com
Hey man awesome video. Where exactly is the Charge air pressure sensor located ?
zero13ftp it is on the big hose going to the turbo (just at the corner of the battery)
Gasket was sandpaper?
Arte Strategica sure not, its a special gasket paper
nice video, thanks, I am needing to change the oil cooler lines on my 2002 9-3. Any idea where I can get them, having a bit of trouble.
Roger Smith thank you, where are you located ?
St. Louis Missouri, I believe I may have found them on the website www.saabusaparts.com.
Roger Smith try esaabparts.com thesaabsite.com eeuroparts.com
I was also making a leak test some time ago and had a leak from the same place! (recirculation valve and turbo body) Replaced the rubber, but did not leak test again.
Did the gasket really help? I am feeling kinda skeptical.
Yury Storozhuk it did in my case .. thats why i showed before and after smoke test
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY But did you notice any performance gain? I will install a gasket tomorrow, cause im running 1,5 bars of boost and it leaked even at idle. See if i can get the boost to hold better.
Yury Storozhuk , im running 16PSI never passed 12 before the repair
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY what is that gasket at the end of the video? is that what youre talking about here?
Lachlin Rajotte yes..
God bless you ,
Really you are a genius 👏 if possible to make the test on aero v6
Will do
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY
I really appreciate that as i want to do the same thing in my saab 93 v6 2010 however I'm a bit confused where to start ,
By the way whatdo you think about installing oil catch can ?
@@abuelzoz2009 its not needed, these cars dont really have and PCV issues, unless something is really worn out like the turbo or the engine
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY
Thanks a lot 😊
Where did u get your smoke machine, and tools along with it?
Mostly AliExpress .. thought i wouldn't get anything from China at the moment ..
Hello..it is not an engineering fault..there is a gasket for that port...you can see it in the EPC system from SAAB..it is available at eEuroparts.com
Hi there, since no car from factory came with this gasket that makes it a defect.
In addition, the part number of the valve for the Mitsubishi turbos is 55558627, if you order this part it will come with NO gasket even from Europarts, and thats Mitsubishi’s fault.
I can understand that you got confused by the diagram in the EPC as it show the gasket available for all turbos, but if you look carefully, the valve shown in all the diagrams is the non Mitsubishi one (proof: look at the location of the valve tube connection, Mitsubishi should have it at the side of the valve, while GARRET have it in the middle) and the diagram shows the one that have it in the middle, that mean the diagram is showing the Garret one for all the turbos, which is not correct).
I hope i didnt confuse you more, but in summery, no car that has Mitsubishi turbo came with it from factory, and it doesnt come in with Newley purchased part, so that makes it a legit factory defect.
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY thanks for your clarification..certainly I have detected that some cars do not have it..I made my own just as you do...I have a SAAB 93 2004 SS which has the TD04 Turbo, but fortunately does not have any leaks, runs like a charm and in its 145000 km has never had any problems with the turbo...the next time I work on a TD04 i will check for that missing gasket, thanks a lot for your excellent videos. Best regards.
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY Checked my 2007 B207E with the Mitsubishi 11T turbo and my conclusion is that there is not meant to be a gasket. The reason for it leaking is the thin metal cover not being rigid enough to clamp on the rubber diaphragm with out deforming. Place the cover on a flat surface with the "gasket" surface face down and you will see my point, on the outer edge between the holes for the 3 fasteners. Adding a gasket could potentially cause an internal leak. Forge motorsports makes an upgraded charge air bypass valve to resolve this issue.
MrChristianAA, it meant to have a gasket according to both EPC & WIS, and it make sense that no two metal surfaces can be attached holding pressure without a gasket due to metal tolerances specially due heat.
Ive bee installing these gasket for 3 year in a raw and its been successful for restoring boost and saving turbos (as they would spool less to generate the same boost level).
U can elect to go with aftermarket products, but im not a big fan of aftermarket.
Thanks for the notes though 👍
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY The gasket shown in EPC,WIS, ESAABPARTS.COM is for the Garrett turbocharger mounted on B207E/B207L 2003-2006. Parts diagram are often general for that model (2003-2011 in this case) and include all petrol turbochargers. Can't even find that Mitsubishi, the manufacture of the turbocharger lists a gasket. The rubber diaphragm IS the "gasket". Volvo also use a version of these turbos and no gasket is used there either. If this gasket helps you it's great but not factory correct.
As for saving the turbo in regards to boost level the ECU doesn't request a boost level. It requests a specified amount of air. Turbo pressure can thereby vary a bit depending on weather conditions, altitude etc.
Another awesome video! How was the performance improvement after adding that gasket?
This car is tuned, and boost level used to sit in the middle of the red zone, for a while its been sitting below the red and fluctuated a lot, after the repair it sits solid in the middle of the red zone
@@TheFlyingMechanicDIY how many miles on it? I wanted to get mine tuned but was turned away by VTuner. 155k.
dstimpy12 this car has around 90k miles, but i have and seen other cars has more than 150k and tuned.
I recommend Maptun
@@dstimpy12 I have maptun st1 with maptuner, and would recommend it. Done 90k miles since tuned (140k up this week). Never missed a beat. See my car on my channel.