A Sociopath Explains Sociopathy
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Patric Gagne is a sociopath-one of the five percent of people who are. Growing up, she reports she “mostly felt nothing.” When she was diagnosed as a sociopath in her early adulthood, she finally understood why she experienced life so differently than those around her. She got her PhD in Psychology and wrote her memoir, Sociopath to demystify disorders like psychopathy and sociopathy.
Gagne doesn’t hold back-in a way perhaps only someone who doesn’t feel shame can achieve!--sharing with us what it feels like to be a sociopath and what neurotypical people get wrong about these disorders. It's not every day we get to hear about sociopathy from someone who lives it, so settle in for an extended episode and a conversation like no other.
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I was in a third world country with a friend. We walked past a beggar on the street (they were everywhere). I was so terribly sad-empathetic. My friend went across the street, bought food and gave it to the man. As we walked away, my friend said something funny. I asked, "Aren't you sad?" He replied, "Nope. It's a fine day...but who's the one who bought him the food?" I realized my FEELINGS were of no help that hungry beggar. Love is a verb at its best-an action. You don't always have to FEEL it. Lesson learned to my emo self. I applaud you Patric in your journey.
This relates a lot
Hello there you are now talking to a sociopath
If you want to be enlighten you can reply
1000 percent. It goes back to the old saying that our actions are what matters.
True
Brilliant anecdote, thank you for sharing. I think I can get narcissistically wrapped up in my INTENTIONS, but I don't think they matter much. Actions are so important. We don't have to suffer to love.
You've learnt something everyone learns at 3yo good for you!
I am fairly certain that the only great therapist I ever had was a sociopath now that I've seen this interview. She was SO much like this woman. It saved me as my mother was a smothering narcissist and so the emotional space and non judgment she afforded me was extremely healing. I am so grateful for both of them :)
Glad this woman is sharing her experience. Appreciated.
Gratitude
@@rogerthornton4068I also dismiss my feelings when I want to do something to someone it's behaviour and I guess until now people don't want to know that people are patient and insane
when she says "i didnt wanna hurt that child" she quickly looks on her right side what she doesnt do very often. so i think she lies. she wanted to hurt her.
Her terrific command of language allows her to explain herself beautifully
Such a gift
And explain away any issues if called on the carpet at a job. Make the ones above them think she's right, we're wrong..explain it all away. As they eye their job...
Snake in the grass
Very often people who are they're bosses are afraid of them, and when employees go to them with complaints avoid the employees under this, " manager."
Snakes 🐍 in the grass
@@eliz49 it's not a gift. Gift of BS. Crazy like foxes, and a nightmare to work under
Being a diagnosed psychopath, it was seen as the most logical sense because you realized you're able to see bird eyes view of the situation with multiple undertones and codex to each individual person. I could tell your whole life story just by the way you sway your arms or the amount of muscle pressure you exude in certain movments.
At least one nice thing about her 😝
Oh my goodness! What a wonderful discussion with Patric. She was amazing at explaining what sociopathy is. Thanks to both of you.
Thank you for talking about the similarities between sociopathy, borderline, and narcissism. As someone who is diagnosed as BPD, that’s such an important distinction!
BPD is bullshit you just can’t control yourself.
Kudo’s to Patric for being SO articulate about concepts that are so challenging to explain/describe. I learned a lot. Thanks, Katie!
I find it amusing that the lady with the milkshake in the Mercedes might also have been a sociopath but her wealth allowed her to just get away with doing the bad things.
Definitely a sociopath. No concern about others, no concern about the environment, etc. Despicable.
There is a distinction between sociopathy and psychopathy. But it doesn't matter much when you have been victimized by one or the other. Both psychopaths and sociopaths will do serious harm to others if they can. Deliberately. That's what they share in common. Unless you are a trained psych professional it's best to avoid both personality types if you want to stay safe and sane.
I love this lady.
You're right. The distinction is pretty huge to 1 in 20 people, though, who have one of those. 5% is a lot. Imagine if they were getting treatment before they grew up? Imagine if most of them became stable and safe?
Wrong AGAIN. I am diagnosed with ASPD and schizoid by age 27, I am 34 now. I don’t harm anyone….Why would I invest my emotions and hurt people when i don’t care about them? What do I get from it? Boosting my pathetic ego so I can feel better about myself? Sigh….Our true nature is indifferent, callous, cold, lack of empathy, limited empathy it depends on the person and emotionless at times but more in muted way. And that women who claim to be one is not an sociopath at all….I can read my own breed who has truly ASPD. We basically don’t care about humanity or society at all even
It collapses. We don’t care. Right term is ASPD not sociopathy….All we know is we’re different than neurotypical individuals, which you call ‘’sociopathy’’ but we call to ourselves ‘’indifferent’’ ASPD individuals are intimidating, callous, predatory looks. Let’s face it, do you sense something off about her? I don’t think so, she is plain normal, that’s why. If she was an real ‘’sociopath’’ you can feel the aura there is something off. Most ASPD individuals have a cold presence, predatory stare. Like I said before, I can read my own breed.
@@yesitschelle It is untreatable. Therapy just makes them better manipulators.
@@Chrisbybeebee Evidence? If it's a single anecdote, that won't compete with serious research.
She stabbed a child in the neck...I can't warm up to this person at all and will she do it again? She said it in such a cold manner...my ex is a sociopath and they make my skin crawl
That's fine, but this is when she was a child and children all have ASPD traits which is why they diagnose ASPD at adulthood cause it's not fair to say that them as a child is the same as them as an adult.
She was a child. She didn't have control like she does now.
She was a child. She didn't have control like she does now.
I have an older sister like this. I'm 60 and I just figured it out a few years ago. Most of my life and my parents have lived with shame and less than from her neglect of empathy. The lies covered up the real issue and the rest of the family would think we did something wrong because she did not care for us. But she would quickly cover her tracks and do the pretend thing covering up her dirty deeds. When I found out who she really was my anger at her was uncontrollable. During my elderly moms illnesses the destruction from stealing, not helping with care giving, etc just put me over the top. I have disconnected from her. For me the years of deceit and destruction of our family , I just can't forgive. She was born this way. Still not understanding what category she is in, but when I look back at 50 years of her life it all adds up to me. Yes more work needs to be done because family destruction is enormous from this disorder as much of mental illness is
Please, just for yourself, forgive her. “ she knows not what she does”. That seems unfathomable to most people. I am bi-polar 1. I’ve spent my life regulating my emotions . I’m not always successful . I feel things 10x deeper than normal people. I hate it. You can’t see mental illness so people forget. Then when I react strongly ( and I’m on meds) it’s very off putting.
I’m so sorry Your pain is palpable. I wish you healing and many blessings.
I can empathize with you my sister was like what you described
@@surlypiratewench1969 she's forgiven but I can't be around her as she can't be trusted. Her daughter and her husband have also been conned and protected her behavior as they benefitted from it . She is 74 but still very dangerous. Financial exploration from a family member is devastating. She also never paid retribution for the last theft which is not a reconciliation for a relationship. Sad when she's gone her only grandson has no family on either parents side from her behavior. Everyone else pays for her crimes. My new boundaries do not include someone who can't be trusted.
@@bugsea54 I’m terribly sorry. My own mom is a sociopath and she’s destroyed our family. What a horror to live through. Please take care of yourself 🥲
Sociopathy, psychopathy, narcissism and so on are not mental illnesses. They are personality disorders. Those disorders can cause mental illness in the people around them, though.
A narcopath is a person who exhibits traits of both Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). The term is a combination of the words "narcissist" and "sociopath" or "psychopath". Narcopaths are also known as malignant narcissists and are considered to be among the most dangerous and psychologically disturbed people.
Donald Trump. Vladimir Putin. Roger Stone. Meghan Markle. The list is endless.
And my mother. They are the worst!
Sam Vaknin, simultaneously giving insanely good conceptualizations and insanely bad information out in the same videos.
These people are LEGIT like the riddler irl 😂
The disturbed people are those who say "you've got issues" to people who protect themselves.
When she describes what she felt when she stabbed a classmate with a pencil, not once did she express any remorse or concern for that child's pain or fear. The whole interview was about how SHE felt and never about anyone else.
Exactly!!! I don't care if she has bad intentions or no intentions - I don't want to be around her or know her. If the person she stabbed in the neck has lifelong complications from the stabbing, naturally she would not care in the least. I'm happy she isn't actively hurting people but sociopaths are bad and I think of them as more animal than human.
To be fair, this interview was about her and describing what's it was like growing up with sociopathy, so...
@@always-ask-why Most sociopaths are dangerous people and are to be avoided at all times. Sociopaths don't feel empathy for others but want others to be empathic towards them and they will use you. They are very manipulative and do not feel guilt if they've done something wrong. At the end of the day, they only care about themselves and what they can get from other people. It's like a game with these people and they just want to win over others. And yeah she may not be hurting people as of now, but if she lacks empathy and guilt for wrongful actions then she's just as bad as people who do commit violent crimes.
That's the point. I have ASPD, and I only understand cognitive pain for others. She also mentioned that.
@Purplerose200 why even watch this if you're going to revert to your bias instead of being open minded that not all people with ASPD behave the same way?
Since sociopaths are excellent liars, it's tough to take their word as truth.
Yeah she had literally nothing to gain from lying here. I have ASPD and I can tell she isn't lying.
I am so appreciative of this interview. I find Patric's open-ness and Katie's deft empathy and journalistic prowess really helped me to see, and understand aspects of this personality 'curve', so much better.
It sheds a light, also to personalities in general in the components of how we each/all experience ourselves in the world.
I might seem like I am a bit over-applying my sense and perspective regarding these insights as explanations... But I feel it is a start in how we/I can even more compassionately appreciate one another, even relate to one another.
Thank You to both of you for this conversation.
I have suspected my youngest daughter of sociopath or BPD traits. Since she was little, she seemed to not get emotion. We would have family movie night every week and watch some disney or something with my older daughters. We would all be either crying or making oh my gosh comment, during intense moments, and she would look at us like we were from another planet. She would keep asking what what? Many times i would pause the show and explain to her what just happened.I thought at first maybe she was just zoning out and missing. At that point everything else seemed some what normal She seemed loving and empathetic. As she had grown older she has said and done some very cruel and unkind things, with zero remorse. If i bring something up that has hurt me deeply, no matter how recent, she just says bro when are you going to stop bringing that up? She is 19 now. She went through her worst faze when she was 13 to 16. She even made me very sick once by adding some strange salt to my coffee. When she finally admitted to it a year later she sad i was acting salty so she thought it would help. My acting salty was telling her i was warn out from driving her every day to her friends house, i was very weak from covid and took a long time to recover. I had to wake up to go get her every night. So i said look can we do this every second day please? She turned to me in the car and said i cant wait till you are old enough to dump in a nasty nursing home and leave you there. I had also just been through a hypotensive crisis and put on meds and was still recovering from nearly dying from covid. I could not taste.
She put all this salt in my pot of coffee and my blood pressure was too high and i felt awful for days. I could have had a stroke, i have already had one TIA. I have had her cats poop rubbed on my head, glass jar thrown at my head. Shoulder checked into the wall as i walk by. Then found out i had cancer,
I had to go in and have a section of lung removed. She brought home 2 cats from her bf, when they broke up, and they were peeing all over my house. I told her i cant come home and recover breathing that all in, it has to be cleaned up. It could damage my raw lung. Nope not a care. I had to stay locked in my bedroom. It does not help her father is a abusive narcissist and alcoholic, who has also filled her head with absolute garbage. Things she has accused me of, were either things hes done, or i can hear the vile lies coming out are from his mouth. When she was around 14 before the worst started, i tried to get her help yet again. I found a new lady psychiatrist at the hospital, i thought my daughter would like, she had a hard time connecting with other councilors in the past.. At that point she felt something was wrong with her. The damn Dr refused to even see my daughter, because i had said i thought she might have bpd. She was not diagnosed with anything. I even begged this drs receptionist 3 diff times. The answer was no.And if she acted out again to call the cops. I will never forget/forgive that, as my daughter ran away shortly after that, for over a year i was not even allowed to know where she was living. This all crushed me because she was my youngest and my baby. And yes i spoiled her way too much.
I was making good money when she was younger, and i could afford nicer toys and things. Her sisters kinda resented that. She also did not have chores like my older girls, she had health issues younger too. I babied her. Now what is in her head, after i started geting older and sick, and had to stop working, that i was a neglectful rotten mother. Her father is her fav parent now, He will buy her pretty much anything she wants, if he has the money. He never paid me a dime in child support. He has recently convinced her i was stealing money from her. He has her convinced the child benefit i got, to help support her needs and every dime of it was used to her care and needs, was supposed to go to her, for her to use as she wanted.
She may now have caused me some issues with my income. Because of the cancer and other health issues, i am now on government help. Because of her mental health issues they allowed me to keep her a dependant. But they did not give much more for her basic needs and i certainly could not afford to feed her cats. Her father had her contact my social worker and claim i was not paying for enough. I went without proper food so many times to make sure she had healthy things to eat. And she has expensive taste. So now im waiting for that hammer to fall. Wow geez i just wrote a short novel.
This deserves a long, expert answer and I hope you get one!
I feel for you as I know what you are going through. My husband is a malignant narcissist, if I wrote down what he had done to me I doubt it would be believed. My daughter, now 22, told me three years ago she thought she was a sociopath, she was correct. These two are working together against me. She is callous, cold, vengeful, a liar, a manipulator. Everything she accuses me of is what she has done to me. He lies to her and she lies to him about me. It’s toxic to say the least. I cannot leave, I have nowhere to go. She has told so many lies about me, it is character assassination. I’m living a nightmare that I can hardly believe. I wake in the night in a panic, I am highly stressed. It is difficult for outsiders to understand what I am going through. To overhear her tell him to throw me out has been a punch to my heart. He has lied about me to his family, his boss, his friends. She has lied about me to her friends, her boyfriend, his parents and family. It’s destroying me and they laugh about it to each other, it’s amusing to them.
@@Karunda86 I know you feel stuck. But you have to get away. Even if its for a few months to clear your head. Watch HG Tudor. The man maybe a monster but hes the reason i knew what happened to me. He gives you the insight to the evil prospective and motives. If you do not get away it will only be worse. Please for the sake of any anity you have left, and you do have some left because you know whats going on is wrong. Find someone you can talk to. And document everything. Written or recorded.
@@Karunda86I hope you get help, you cannot live like this😢I’m just discovering I have someone in my life like this. It’s scary to me, I’m not sure what they are capable of🥺
They get emotion: they're just bullies who respond only to superior force.
I cannot thank you enough for this interview. Both in marriage and children, this enlightened my understanding of the person I was married to for 12 years AND the similar traits that are apparent in one of my children (I will be sharing this with his therapist and soon Children’s Hospital where he will have an assessment next month). THANK YOU sincerely. - Tiffany
Who did you turn down for that winner? Like attracts like.
Thanks for sharing and informing! Keep up the good self-work. These types of conversations help inform the uninformed and can transform society in a positive way.
Katie…….Id love for you to have Dr Ramani on your show. Y’all could do a dive into malignant narcissistic sociopathic personalities (tDump).
She’s had her on. That’s how I discovered her.
Ramani has a very black and white view of ASPD, and because of that I don't like her.
This was so interesting, as I’ve always been Taught that, All Sociopaths and Psychopaths are Narcissistic but not all Narcissists are the above. And that Psychopaths are born that way and that Sociopaths come about by there environment. It shows me that, if you get a child into therapy early enough, they have a greater chance of learning and fitting into society.
Interesting, because there are people on the other side of the social emotion bell curve - who feel those social emotions *way* too intensely.
That’s me! And I recently was kicked out of my boyfriend’s apartment. My boyfriend is a diagnosed Sociopath and I am a diagnosed with BPD. We have tried 4 times to get back together but our mental health issues cause us both too much to handle. And yet we still love each other. 😢 But for our wellbeing I suppose we should not be together?!
One aspect often overlooked in these discussions is that, while sociopaths may indeed lack empathy towards others, they often exhibit an abundance of empathy towards themselves. Their inability to empathize with others does not extend to themselves; rather, they frequently prioritize their own well-being and interests above all else.
Sounds like you are describing a Republican.
Learned a lot from this facinating discussion. Thank you!
I adore that Patric is so open about her sociopathy! So fascinating and we need to talk openly about all aspects of beyond human. Thank you!
How crushing that Patrics feelings are so obtuse and hazy, she wants to reach them but they're like balloons constantly out of reach. 🎈🎈🎈
Really fascinating interview!
Thank you for this interview. It is very interesting to me and helpful!
Great interview Katie! Thanks for sharing! So brave for Patric to share her story. 🥰
Had zero knowledge in this area. How incredibly interesting and enriching. Thank you for sharing, and making me a little smarter a bit more understanding today. ❤ to all affected.
Pat you may not care about my feelings but I care about yours and I'm so happy that you are learning and trying and also helping and informing other people. You are redeemable and even pretty cool.
I’m listening to Patric’s audiobook right now. It’s a bit of a spoiler learning she marries David but I’m glad they made it. Where I am in the book right now they are going through a very tough time. Most people would be throwing in the towel & breaking up. I’m glad to learn they stick it out & continue to grow individually & as a couple. I also must say how lucky Patric is just by the family she was born into - white, middle-to-upper middle class socioeconomic situation, parents who were emotionally & financially stable, even though they divorced when Patric was young. They were not perfect human beings but they were able to provide an environment where Patric could (sort of) safely figure herself out. Many young people with sociopathy are not given this opportunity. She hasn’t talked about this at all in the book and I hope she does at some point. Her born-given privilege definitely gave her a leg up.
Absolutely. Most people cannot acknowledge their own privileges.
She acknowledged that right in the beginning of this conversation.
Definitely true. Also, her sister and her husband have been very healing for her.
I have my own reasons for having the wrong emotions, and I think there's a third option. As long as I cognitively understand how the people around me feel, I can express that. Say what I think it means to them, "This is so exciting, are you happy or overwhelmed?" "This must be a hard day for you," etc. People like being understood.
I worked with a sociopath. She managed to go up the corporate ladder pretty easily with zero competence but lots of schemes. She decimated morraly the entire department but managed to Inspire so much fear nobody would complain openly. Interesting enough She was favourite in the eyes of senior management
She played the role of such a kind and well-intended person in their eyes that is capable of very strong-willed decisions. She had a different face towards us, though. Its still a chilling experience..
I’m glad u shared ur experience, the amount of ppl in comments (depending on the channel) championing a sociopath is concerning. They either are one themselves, the comments are bots (getting hyper realistic these days), or have never had any experience with one. There are a lot of sociopaths in powerful positions. Having had experience with many of them in LE, they are to be avoided at all costs. Your empathy will be taken advantage of at some point if ur around them long enough.
No one is perfect and every one is far from it.
That's very true. However, being a flawed human is VERY different from being a perpetually destructive force in other people's lives. Sociopaths and narcissists can seek help and do a lot of hard work and introspection to overcome their personality disorders, like this lady has done. Statically, very few of them have the self insight necessary to admit to themselves - let alone anyone else - that they need it.
What an amazing and really important conversation. Unrecognised and untreated sociopathy and psychopathy is bad for those individuals, and is occasionally CATASTROPHIC for society. I really feel that the psychology profession has let society down by not improving the very low general understanding of this issue. Thanks Patric and Katie for this fascinating and important conversation. 😊
Essentially, outing herself as a sociopath has relieved the pressure of pretending. That doesn't mean she's actually healed. She herself acknowledges that the "urge" (pressure) is still there.
😱WOW, I think she just described "Dump Trump"👀??
🗳️Vote 💙 for democracy and normalcies, no chaos, just peace ...
💁You know like normal human beings 🕊️👏👏👏🕊️
No she didn't. Vote Dems for TONS of chaos, insanity and general social breakdown. Btw they haven't got a chance of winning.
Sounds like she’s describing Brandon, Mr/Mrs O, and The Big Cs
@@chet9128nice try 🙄
She is exactly describing Trump.
Sociopaths exist because there's a necessity for their unique traits. Highly empathic individuals, while deeply attuned to emotions, may not always possess the emotional resilience required for tasks that necessitate a lack of empathy. This contrast sheds light on why leadership roles often find better alignment with individuals who possess such traits.
I have Alexithymia, I don’t really experience my emotions. That makes empathy difficult, because that’s an emotions. But there are a lot of people that like to discuss their problems with me. A friend told me once why. She said that everyone is having pity, but I analyze and discuss the problem. And that also.helps. So everyone has its place and function in this world.
I’m a person that likes to analyze problems, and like to entangle them. (I don’t solve them)
I would like to know why sociopaths gaslight people and try to make their victims feel like they are the ones with a PD.?
Same. What a devastating issue to be accused of not caring when you do and it's the sociopath that doesn't care. Especially if it's a parent or spouse.
Because it shifts the blame away from them and prevents you from recognizing what they are doing as abuse.
I have not done that since elementary school
Its toying for fun tbh
Katie you're still the best interviewer in the business!
Katie, you made me laugh out loud - for real - when you talked about sitting in church, and your imagination started thinking about what would have happened if you did something crazy. Only recently, I had similar thoughts while on Corporate Zoom Meetings with over 100 Attendees. Cheers!
Very interesting discussion. Thanks Katie & Patric for this excellent interview. Learned a lot. Keep up the research and writings Patric. Katie, I agree with Patric - you are level headed and always bring an open mind and thoughtful perspective to your interviews. Thank you both for sharing. Stay safe. 💙💙
The fun part of this interview is watching the manipulation and shadowing skills play out. Patric could be a superhero or villian depending on the time and circumstance. Fascinating
Yep. Pretty sure I saw some duper's delight in there too.
Well, we have at least 5% of the population classified as Sociopaths (I personally believe is more than 5%) so this interview and her work is certainly useful to broaden our understanding of many behaviors we cannot accept and / or understand.
What an excellent interview! Learned so much from Patric and Katie's superb questions and wonderful interviewing style was perfection. I think Patric's sister and her husband have helped her tremendously. She is certainly a pioneer in this field and will likely help many people in the future.
As sociopath and a mother, I’m proud of how she states her anger of hurt over her children is greater than what she may lack.self developed logic does reign higher than others morals and I understand that greatly. My children are very loved but it comes from being a great teacher than what I am, giving your children more than you had is common. Love and loving is always subjective so I do believe her since I know I am also affectionate knowing what you lacked your ability to give is driven further to create normalcy. I feel that all are given gifts to know, and ability try with what they are given and those who don’t understand simply won’t. Some of us our trying and thrive. Some people have been hurt and want to see us villainized, but simply it won’t hurt the same.
How does it feel to be a female sociopath because we are taught that women are sweet and good and you’re bad
The way she talks about karmic consequences really resonates with me. Because often (as diagnosed ASPD myself) it’s not easy to pretend that you have a conscious directing you to do “what’s right” like most people are naturally born with. Instead, in my opinion with other individuals dealing with the same thing can rationalize their intentions through spirituality.
You have to create your own rule book in order to survive
I’m proud of you for searching for answers. I’m reading your book and it is eye opening and informative and I hope it will inspire more research which needs to happen in our society for understanding and help for all who are isolated due to our differences. The serenity prayer comes to mind ✨💐
I’d be so curious to hear Patrick’s take on HSPs and if this is the opposite end of the sociopathic spectrum!
I was born an orphaned foster kid and counseled most of my life..things didn't start to feel better until I came to realize these people invent disorders then analyze them so they can have a job-"Its all psychobabble rap to me"-Alan Parsons
Morning Katie. Thanks for the discussion. And Hello from Wisconsin.
I really appreciate this conversation. So excellent to get a glimpse into another world.
she's awesome for being real. i have a hard time as a sociopath to even talk to anyone. i like that she speaks out. its hard. we're not crazy animals.
I immediately thought that you was going to have Trump on your show Katie.
👍👍👍👍
I question if sociopathy can be called a disease if it provides an individual with an advantage for survival. As a biologist, I see an evolutionary advantage for such an individual in a world without the rule of law. History is full of sociopathic societies that overwhelmed others with their superior skills for warfare because it is much easier to terrorize others if you don't feel terror yourself. I think that our current political climate may be giving us a glimpse into just how prevalent sociopathy is in our society which suggests it is much closer to 25%. The prevalence of sociopathy may actually be what tips the balance between having an advanced civilization and the intermittent periods where chaos rules. Evolutionarily speaking, the superior individual is the one that most effectively spreads their genes and has nothing to do with how advanced a civilization is unless the rule of law prevents sociopaths from thriving.
Great observation, so well articulated! Everything you stated makes sense and is what i've been struggling to understand about society these days. And i agree, it does seem like there's a huge population as you stated at 25%. Thank you!
Yeah I would say not. Social relationships and community are one of humanities foundational survival traits. We built our society (note society) on communal living, shared resource etc. we have countless examples of the ways we learnt to “trust” each other, handshakes to show we don’t have a weapon etc. etc. and people who put that trust at risk are a detriment not a benefit.
The masking behaviors have developed as a result of the seemingly innate knowledge that sociopathic behavior fundamentally put the individual at risk of being ousted from society. Masking is not the disorder itself but a symptom of it being hidden. We won’t know what the disorders actual innate symptoms are until the mask is fully removed. So we can’t know what the benefits and drawback are. Also because we don’t know if it’s hereditary we don’t know if it is a gene that can be passed on or not.
I would argue that all societies are sociopathic given that a society cannot feel emotion the same way an individual can. It’s by nature diluted by the differing perspectives of each individual who makes up that society. One person might feel anger why another feels sadness. For a society to reflect like an individual there would have to be a singular focus of opinion and emotion.
Sociopathic society, is a term that really encompasses the overuse of buzz words, directly against what this interview was talking about. Multiple person disorder society, narcissistic society, bi polar society. It’s a little bit goofy. Also, what stops a sociopathic society from cannibalizing itself? If each individual struggles to empathize (without treatment) with the person standing next to them, and there can only be so many kings and winners in a society I would think a civil war is more likely for “sociopathic society” than any form concerted effort to over throw a neighbor
I have similar thoughts about ASD, HSP, ADHD to name a few. I can definitely see an evolutionary advantage and necessity to have a wide spread of talents and characteristics within a tribe as a basis for survival. You need the level headed thinkers, the ones that notice a tiny stick cracking, the hunters with boundless energy, those in tune with the mood of a group...
Thank you both for this excellent conversation on these mental health issues. So important in so many ways.
All sociopaths are narcissistic, but not all narcissists are sociopaths. Cutting is usually associated with Borderline.
Thank you Patrick 😊 it's nice to finally find answers.
Its interesting how many comments are from a place of stereotypes and common "knowledge" (which may not be accurate). Many obviously didn't listen. This illustrates the stigma of many mental/neurological conditions. People think they know things, they dont and they help perpetuate a (bad) cycle. I appreciated this discussion. It was very interesting and thought provoking and I wish more would listen. I would like to point out that "neurotypical" is not necessarily the opposite of sociopath as she uses it. I'm neurodivergent but I didn't fit under her definition which seemed to be simply, sociopathy. Being "overly" empathetic, I hardly related to those unfeeling situations. The masking, though? I can definitely relate. I'm simply pointing that out as clarification, not a criticism. I think she's super bold and brave to put herself out there like this. I really hope that her book, her story, etc can help to change people's minds on health stigmas, jumping to conclusions and abelism.
Thank you to both of you!
You seem like a very smart person. I have ASPD, and so many try to dehumanize me and accuse me of doing things I didn't when they don't know me. It's interesting how some neurotypicals want to view themselves as superior to neurodivergence, but I have met the most cruelest neurotypicals that could be even worse than someone with ASPD.
Astonishing! "Putting that pencil in that child was like popping a balloon." So pop a balloon! Surely you could find ways to relieve pressure without causing someone else pain. Sorry. Not buying it. And you, Patric, are now hoping to profit by openly speaking about this. While your memoir is sure to intrigue those who find fascination in such deviations of psychology, I see it as purely indulgent ambition. I do feel overwhelmed with compassion for the child you injured, who may have spent many hours in costly therapy as an adult trying to make sense of your senseless act.
I have worked with kids like her and know that we need way more research. These kids don’t have an understanding of their feelings. They act/react in a way that seems impulsive and cruel, but it’s them trying to get relief or not understanding the concept of empathy. They are children; most can’t control it much less fix it. If we don’t research this, we will continue to have violence in our schools and society and will continue to fill prisons. I absolutely have the most empathy for the victim!!!
She was a child. Children do dumb, impulsive things and because she had ASPD which she didn't know how to cope with she acted out in violence. You're so convinced with your bias that you just generalize a whole disorder. If you're going to be closed minded, then it's best that you just don't even watch this in the first place.
@@shannonbarrett4761 Finally, someone who is smart. I might have missed if she said why she was violent towards the kid, but we really don't know if there was a trigger for it. The kid might have done something mean to her, but that doesn't excuse her action. It's reasonable to think that the kid wasn't all sunshine and rainbows too, though. Kids can be very cruel and if she acted out in violence because of that there was a trigger. We simply haven't heard a full story and I refuse to jump to conclusions. I remember when a kid talked super poorly about my family and I could stand being bullied, but when they talked about my family I then threatened their life by saying I wanted to slit their throat and cut out their tongue. How dare they talk about my family, I thought. My teacher made fun of my learning disabilities and said I would fail in life. I lashed out by throwing a chair at her. I don't condone my actions now that I'm an adult, but it's not right to not consider the full story before saying someone is fully bad and can't change.
Important information and perspective. Invaluable. Thoroughly engaging. Thank you.
Very interesting and important conversation. In discussing sociopaths I can't help but think of you know who, DJT, who litteraly displays every single attribute associated with that personality disorder.....and he's on the November ballot! But beyond that I also think the attributes of a sociopath are found to a greater or lesser degree in a much larger percentage of the population than the textbooks claim. It's either that or I have just had an unfortunate life in which I have encountered an abnormally large percentage relative to the general population. I have seen attributes associated with a sociopath in many people (and more frequently in people who have achieved positions of authority, e.g., in the corporate realm) and sometimes I even think that it's the majority versus the minority that are suffering from the disorder, to a greater or lesser extent. Side note regarding the milkshake through the sunroof incident....broadly-speaking, that incident, IMO, exemplifies this ladies journey.....she has fully identified her 'disability', learned from it, and successfully modified her behavior such that it manifests in constructive ways, There's a chance the 'dumpster driver' will reconsider her behavior.
I think the other driver would be more likely to be angry and vindictive towards the next person she perceives to be disrespecting her. It might've been satisfying in the moment, but not a good solution by any definition
@@bmac6645 Possibly, since it's unlikely the single milkshake action would cause the Mercedes driver to rethink her values, i.e., she's likely "not salvageable" unless she experiences enough similar negative feedback to motivate a desire to change (she might need multiple milkshakes! 🤣🤣)
So funny you brought this up, I was thinking of Biden, who displays every attribute associated with that personality. Especially when he panders to black people and then tells them "You ain't black, if you don't vote Democrat"...wow....or when he speaks to people who have lost family members and always makes it about him to the point he actually makes up stories so it can be about him. Or when he pulled out of Afganistan, and the 12 marines were murdered, then when an interviewer brought it up he states " that was 12 days ago" with no emotion, just it was over and let's move on, because of course it's easy for him because he's a sociopath!
THE MILKSHAKE!! 😂 Karma delivered! But seriously, this was so informative thank you
At one part she says she doesn’t enjoy seeing people suffer shortly after she said when she was a kid the lessons of not wanting to hurt anyone didn’t land… hypocrisy!
It's important to acknowledge that she admits to engaging in criminal behavior.
It's more than "mischief". (She basically said that when she was in the music industry she engaged in theft. Go back + listen carefully.)
I'd like to know where the following fit in with all of this:
1a) Autism
1b) Aspergers
2) Borderline Personality Disorder (in relationship to the rest of these)
3a) Narcissism (In relationship to the rest of these)
3b) Boomer/Joneser Generation(s)
3c) GenX/Millennial Generation(s)
3d) The parent/child relationship between both sets in 3b & 3c
3e) The remaining generations and all the relationships between all the generations, etc.
4) Bi-Polar
5) Our nation's economics, from our workforce to homelessness to our prisons
6) What our politicians are doing to improve everything for everyone affected by all these things in the US.
Good luck! I’m sure you can figure all that out by bedtime!
42
"Boomers" & "Generation X!"
Don't talk silly
🙄😌🙏🏻🇬🇧
That's ridiculous.
Nothing to do
with this.
& Millennials are
Far worse re
Entitlement
We need these insights in our House of Representatives and country. Sounds like an important platform to me!
The milkshake comment made me scream laughing 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great interview… I learned a lot. Thanks to you both.
I’m curious if there are any IFS experts here willing to apply the internal family systems paradigm to socicopathy.
Thank you for shining a light on this. I learned so much. ❤
Thank you so much, i found out 2 months ago. Ive felt so unhuman. You showed me human. Thank you
Thank-you
I only felt after a life long of probing pushing from my narc mother, anxiety, walk this way talk that way, your no good you don't do as I say, you don't care about us you have no empathy or same mindednesss and feelings. I felt so distant and had of course low self-esteem from that. so I felt just anxiety. later on when I got the self-esteem back and the help I minimally needed I finally felt confident, just after making more money. I got the praise back from my parents so to speak. their shame from being an asp Tourette kid I internalized as anxiety. it's away now so exhausting. always finding a mask. I love stillness in me today. edit, it led to not hating people but just feeling nauseating from the social pushing im just not feeling.
Parents who only see their kids as being some kind of reflection of themselves, that hurts. You feel like they don't see the real you, and you don't know who you are because of that. Glad you found peace.
Great interview! I have the book in my queue. Even more eager to read it now.
She's learned to manage the manifestations. That's simply facade management. It enables her to exist in the world, stay married to a normal person, and not end up in jail. But she is not "cured" or "healed".
It might help if people stopped using such ubiquitous words like "empathy" and started using plain English phrases like "take others into consideration" and "think about what others are going through" and so forth. The first time I ever even heard the word "empathy," I was in my mid-30s at work, being told, "Now, you aren't allowed to confuse sympathy with empathy." I was all, "Huh?" and "What's the difference?" No one ever gave me any good definitions for either term, and to this day, I really have no idea what the difference is supposed to be. In any event, I just try to make change where I can to help others who it seems no one gives a rip about. I figure that's what matters in the end, and the terms used don't really make any difference.
Another thought: Honestly? I think it's ok to be more balanced and even-keeled when difficult things happen. I do think that some people over-react, and then that's called "normal." But a ton of that is socialized into them, they're not born that way. Each child is different already, and when you have two or more kids, they're each going to have a different experience, even when they're twins or triplets growing up in the same home, dressing the same, eating the same foods with their parents, etc. When kids watch how their parents do things, some kids will just copy what their parents do, others will do what they believe their parents want them to (to avoid punishment) and other kids will just do what comes naturally to them. The kids whose behaviors are influenced by their parents aren't being honest. They might get all the praise, be the "golden children," and wind up in their parents' wills, but they grow up not even knowing who they really are. IMHO, that's what's not normal (healthy) at all.
I think what needs to happen is that parents get informed by society that they don't get to determine how their children should feel or who their children are inside. Literally, that needs to be outlawed. I'm sick and tired of seeing kids, everywhere, being put through this perpetual meat-grinder by their own parents. I mean, really, that's pretty disgusting, when you think about it for any real length of time. I like Suzie Plakson's "UBU." Every kid needs to hear that!
Yes, we get she's not a psychopath. She doesn't actively fantasize about or seek harm to others. But she doesn't feel empathy, either.
And she becomes stressed when she's expected to demonstrate genuine concern for others - a stress that is bad enough to cause her to want to act out in ways harmful to others to relieve that stress.
Such an interesting interview. Thank you so much for sharing.❤
My dad is whatever Tr💩🍊p and Tony Soprano are. Borderine, NPD, Socio, Psycho, Narco?
Whatever it is, it’s brutal.
Doesn't sound like "the lessons landed". If the only people she can identify/emphasize with are people exactly like her, that really means she is experiencing only her own distress.
What made her so angry with the littering woman? Was it jealousy because she was so brazenly acting out her own sociopathy herself? It wasn’t because she empathized with the planet, right? Or others who are impacted by the litter. And then so much glee and laughter over doing it? She just said she doesn’t experience pleasure after hurting people, this story is inconsistent with that.
Okay. We can feel anger and disgust. I'm disgusted by slobs and people who don't respect the planet cause I live on it. She also says she cognitively understands this by looking at it through her point of view. But also her religious views mix into that as well. In the context, she's saying she doesn't get pleasure. It's a release of built-up pressure that builds up again and again. That should answer your question.
Thank you Katie. This was fascinating. You have exceptional skills 👏.
Great topic. Listening with interest. Great glasses !
I have a sister I think is a sociopath. I don’t know her well. She’s a half sister. I feel sorry for her. She doesn’t have any remorse for terrible behavior and seemingly no insight into how bad her behavior is.
In addition to that I was targeted by a sociopath for 30 years- I thought she was borderline but I know now I was wrong. I found out things she was doing behind my back that caused permanent harm to me that is really awful. It’s difficult because they seem to make justifications for the harm and be able to convince more uneducated people they are victims.
And I know Patric from someplace. I know this face.
If she doesn't become smarter like me, she will be a low functioning one.
Love the milkshake story!😏 Great interview, thank you both really much!
I think Patric should have her own podcast with an interview her husband as well. I would love to hear about her husband's unconditional love and efforts to work with Patric to get through their end of relationship.
I can give huge credit towards her husband who's always been willing to listen and working with Patric for many years. I think it's crucial for people who have any type of personality issue need an opportunity to meet and work with a person who truly like, understand and have the other feel fully accepted regardless of who they are. Normally we all should have this from our parents being fully loved, accepted when we grow up, however, there are significant population who lack of this essential love from their parents.
I have no doubt Patric's husband must've been nurtured by down to earth loving parents.
This interview helps me to understand more about people who have sociopathic behavior. Thank you.
For the love of god DO NOT STAY IN A RELTATIONSHIP WITH A SOCIOPATH.
Patric never describes her trauma or abuse she received that caused her to become sociopathic.
I am reading it. It is beautifully written. Bravo for this jewel.
Our understanding of the prevalence of sociopaths and psychopaths remains obscured by limited research and the reluctance of individuals with these traits to seek treatment. A significant portion of the available research is conducted within prison populations, leading to an erroneous assumption of their prevalence primarily within such environments. However, it's imperative to recognize that sociopaths exist across various societal contexts, not solely within the confines of correctional facilities.
I’m curious to know how Patric was able to cultivate a love relationship with her husband. I was recently discarded by my boyfriend of two and a half years and I feel like he really never loved me. He wore a mask that was lifted when he told me he was dissatisfied with the relationship and didn’t want a future with me. (I asked if he would consider living together eventually). He ran away. He did mention early on that he was a sociopath (I stupidly thought he was joking). I’m questioning his motivations and I’m confused. It’s painful. How do people develop something meaningful as a sociopath.
She’s seems a bit like a charlatan to me. I’m not able to find any credible evidence that she has any expertise in the field of clinical psychology. If someone could please point me to papers she’s published, id appreciate it. Having said that I do find her “mission” of reducing stigma and thinking about people with disorders we deem “not normal” and empathizing with them.
She may not have published anything as she said she did the PhD just for herself and to understand herself better. She is not working as an academic.
It's a SCAM.
Oh my. I've had that exact same feeling in church a few times. It's entertaining to think of the reactions to a scream. Would never do it and reminds me of the control we have and how were all mostly doing OK as a society...mostly. Brave of Patric to tell her story.
No, she said she stabbed the girl to "relieve the pressure" of pretending to be normal, not to "feel something".
I have antisocial personality too, people misunderstand a lot of times and usually I don't disclose. I'm not a monster, but i have the potential to be really cruel if someone crosses me, for the most part I see it as having different motivations. Life can seem a bit meaningless at some point when I see myself missing out on stuff, but even if i have this thought I end up not caring. I'm quite impulsive(have adhd too) but meds take care of that. I usually conform to the world or people around me because it makes things easier for me, going completely against the current is just not a good place to be. If you are nice to me though I will be nice to you and you can be sure I don't do it because I feel obliged to or because i care deeply about you, I ACTIVELY CHOOSE to be nice to you in return, which is meaningful I believe. I see a lot of people doing or saying things only because it is expected of them or they are driven by some emotion, for me it's a conscious thought to do something nice idk if that makes sense
The numbers are so much larger than is acknowledged. Both psychopaths + sociopaths are cunning + adept at disguising their condition. How can we possibly accurately estimate the numbers?
Is it possible that sociopathy is an attirubute or closely commorbid with ADHD?
Two of my siblings plus my mom have sociopathy, I think, although my mom may have been a full blown psychopath. My sibling is highly intelligent and seems well versed in imitating normal human behavior but hides episodes of compulsive sexuality and normal conversations appear to hide narcissism and repressed aggressiveness. As in the instance presented this sister abused a younger neighborhood child for no apparent reason to the point where both sets of parents had to intervene or a lawsuit or youth incarceration was imminent.
love that bookshelf in the background
Fascinating conversation
Her description of the pressure and relief is very like addictions or lust.