@@siddarth3955 he isnt. The audience identifies him as such because the story is "set Up", in a manner of speaking, for you to side with certain characters, therefore,everyone on the other "side" will be a villain to you. To the people of Lannisport,the Westerlands and the ones under the protection of House Lannister I imagine he'd be a strict lord,but a respectable and even loved leader
Coz he needs air and some space, even while shitting. That is the closest thing a man can get to mean he doesnt give a shit about anyone who saw him open. u know, he will kill anyone enters the toilet without informing (except that whore ) . Tyrion escape is unpredictable so he left it open
I'm surprised you replied this being an older video, but yeah i wish tywin stayed longer and having him and arya become so close that she revealed she was robs brother and then maybe they could have somehow found peace since it wasnt tywins fault joffrey barastard took neds head, but a man can always want haha
There's one critical flaw of Tywin regarding Machiavelli. Machiavelli emphasized very much on how gaining support from the common citizens is very important, even more so than the nobles. Tywin alienated the common folk. The sack of King's Landing, the war crimes in Riverlands... (Though probably commoners in Westerlands would've liked him) Actually this is one of the major reasons why Lannisters are losing power - because they lost the support of commoners while Tyrells are gaining them.
but you should remember that machiaveli also said that one should be cruel at times to show people that he is a serious ruler kings landing population was an enemy and there is a simillar story about cesare borgia who machiavelli thought to be one of the best princes because when an enemy town rebelled or attacked he would sack it and thus punish the common folk but after that he would lower their taxes build them new homes and other works because you should remember machiavelli said it is important for a prince to be respected but he must also be feared
@@sebastjankoracin7774 Machiavelli specifically praised Borgia for properly scapegoating when atrocities were necessary, which Tywin completely failed to do. He spent decades dragging his feet on punishing the Mountain for killing Elia instead of just accepting the loss, he rewarded the Boltons and Freys instead of doing anything to support his narrative that the Red Wedding conveniently helped him by sheer coincidence, and the end result is that literally everybody in Westeros either hates or doesn't care about the Lannisters beyond the temporary short-term fear of Tywin.
@@lethabomaunatlala7121 I never claimed that Tywin bears no responsibility. In fact I argued the opposite: That Tywin utterly failed to distance himself from an absolute PR nightmare that makes everybody involved (except for the victims who will go on to be martyrs) look like the most vile people imaginable. Having Roose and Walder claim you promised them pardons as you punish them is nowhere near as bad as you giving your stamp of approval, outright confirming you endorse and reward the breaking of some of the most sacred laws of Westeros. The books get into this by implying that the rise of the sparrow has more to do with Tywin's actions in life than the power vacuum left by his death, and showing that nobody trusts the word of the Lannisters anymore, completely fucking up Jaime's earnest attempts to fix the shitshow that the Riverlands have turned into, with a viet cong-esque insurgency roving around killing every Frey and Lannister they can get their hands on.
@@sebastjankoracin7774 Exactly, Seb. Mac says one thing then he says the other thing to keep his bases covered(baseball ref.) and we all think he's a genius. His whole philosophy could be summed up as, "Apply judgment.". Gee thanks Mac, that's supes helpful!
Tywin is one of our favorites too...if he wasn't so mean to Tyrion he might be my favorite...I understand why he hates him, but how he goes about it sucks
That's part of what makes Tywin who he is, a man who sacrificed his humanity in order to strengthen his House. The weird thing is that it's his greatest strength and biggest weakness, he is the polar opposite of his father, but neither of them achieved balance, he would have been exponentially more effective if he didn't have an overwhelming need to show his process, which is summed up in their words "hear me roar", in stark contrast to someone like Littlefinger, who isn't interesting in roaring, only bites when appropriate. What's even more interesting, and is a fail on Tywins part, is how the Tyrells compare to the Lannisters, the Tyrells work in magnificent synchronisity, each a part of a well oiled machine designed to advance the whole, where Tywins descendants more often work against each other.
Polar Opposites. Great choice of words. This is the reason I believe Tyrion IS Tywin son. Tyrion is the Balance that was need in the Lanisters and Joann Graced Tyrion with her Stability. To me this is just MORE PROOF that Tyrion is TYWINS SON. The twins are Aryes.
I actually like both theories on Tyrion, it works with Tywin as his father but Joanna's grace and stability are also a balance to Aerys lack of stability. One more reason why GRRM is the best, both outcomes fit brilliantly.
I can not imagine anyone better to play Tywin than CHARLES fuckin DANCE. What an amazing performance. Him and Olena Tyrels actress and also Sean Bean Were the actors that no one can imagine their roles be played by anyone else. They deserved more recognition for the excellent job they did.
Tyrion being the mad kings son completely ruins the whole point of their relationship, I mean isnt it said that Tyrion is more like Tywin than even Jamie is.
Why does it ruin it if Tywin has a legitimate reason to despise Tyrion's existence? its somehow better if Tywin hates him for being a dwarf? and I personally think that Jaime is every bit as much like Tywin as Tyrion...he doesn't give himself any credit for it, but his political know-how and military stratagems are on par with his father's...think about his breaking of the Frey siege at Riverrun in ADWD, or all the advice he gives Cersei that she ignores
The Order of the Green Hand Tywin hates Tyrion because he unjustly blames Tyrion for his wife's death, but the book clearly states on multiple occasions including direct quotes from characters that Tyrion acts more like Tywin than Jamie. Tyrion not Jamie would be the best heir to casterly rock but Tywin refuses to accept it due to his prejudice and incorrectly placed hatred.
there is one quote from the book from Tywin's sister Genna, who told Tywin years ago that Tyrion is more like him than Jaime, resulting in Tywin refusing to speak to her for a prolonged period of time...and I don't deny that Tyrion seems to have some of Tywin's political acumen, but Jaime has it too...the way the information is given to us, with Tywin's guy Pycelle being the only person who refutes the rumors that Tyrion is Aerys' seems to be a clear indicator that the animosity between Aerys and Tywin was caused by something Aerys did with his wife...Aerys' paranoia and "madness" that Tywin was going to kill him started coincidentally the last time Tywin's wife (who was already widely rumored to have been the king's mistress) visited the Red Keep...Tyrion also has a history of Dragon Dreams, platinum (Targaryen not Lannister) blonde hair, and a black eye that could very well be dark dark purple
GRRM really did write Tywin to be Ruler/King, despite all of his unsavory actions and long after his death he's still the one most suited (or perhaps the best) to rule over Westeros. Looking forward to part two..
As much as I refuse to put Tywin on a pedestal because of the choices he's made in the story, I can't help but agree that he could have definitely been a good king. He made a lot of emotionless and tough choices so I would hope he'd be more empathetic of his subjects if he were king, but regardless, he has the leadership skills to rule a country.
Tywin Lannister a man worthy of being king who never wore the crown.....he didn't need it in my opinion. The most detailed vid for one my favourite characters. Great job.
Like Tywin said: ”you’re a fool if you think that crown gives you power” In Tywins case, the crown would only be a shiny headpiece for him, since he ruled as much as the king
@Andrew Messersmith No that was crap. it was just to show how cOoL is Arya. Tywin would've never taken a random prisoner common girl as his cupbearer. Fanfiction bullshit. I'm glad the show is over and forgotten.
Tywin is one of my favorite characters, and him plotting to kill the mad king seems plausible given the sights he's had to endure over the years. Can't wait to see part 2.
I don't, and will never believe Tywin was that bad of a man. From his perspective almost everything he did was justified. (Not saying it was right) but he was tired of his house being a fool..he turned that around and made his family one of (if not) the richest family in Westoros. And he was dealing with shit when all his entire goal was to focus on the realm. Also I do understand his hate for Tyrion. We all know Tyrion is awesome. But to him, this was this child whom not only caused the death of his beloved wife..but could have been the product of a possible affair between his wife and some of his worst foes.
That is exactly how I see Tywin. I didn't really think about that until I read The World of Ice and Fire, and I got the backstory. By the time I was done reading it, I totally could see it from his perspective, and it made him so much more human. He's not evil for the sake of being evil, he's just a man, with faults and weaknesses, who did the absolute best that someone could in the situation he was in. The King was horrific towards him, and he just took it in stride. I feel bad for him sometimes when I think about it. haha Then I have to remind myself that hes a character and not a real person. :) Thanks for watching.
While reading AWOIAF, remember that it was written from the perspective of a maester at the Citadel who is living at the beginning of the book series so he has nothing bad to say about the Lannisters or Baratheons. Not only does he not mention Ser Gregor and Amory Lorch during the sack of KL, but he flat out states Elia could have killed her own children.
Seems like you people didn't read enough Machiavelli or at least didn't understand his core message: A good ruler can not be a good human. If you want to be an effective person you can't let morality get the best of you. It is all about power and control. If you loose them another selfish fool will get them and destroy your realm. That's why you must do everything to keep yourself in power and the others under your control. If you are moral and just to your enemies, they will take advantage over you.
Tywin is a great role model for dealing with enemies; keep quiet, don't let them see you upset, take mental notes then annihilate them at the best opportunity.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere, But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear. Yes, now the rains weep o'er his hall, and not a soul to hear.
Tywin was my first favorite character followed by Baelish and then Roose all 3 master manipulators. Also I love Machiavelli read and re read the book the prince
Very interesting analysis. I think GRRM chose to build Tywin's character around many of the qualities that Machiavelli describes in "The Prince". At times the references are even literal; for instance - in the books, Tywin is described as being "as much a fox as he is a lion". In "The Prince", Machiavelli uses exactly the same metaphor: “The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.” And, as is illustrated well in your video - Tywin understands and acts in accordance with many of Machiavelli's maxims. If a ruler cannot be both feared and loved, the former is to be preferred, as long as one avoids being hated by the people. In this case, Machiavelli advices the ruler to have a "scape goat" of sorts. Machiavelli uses the example of how Cesare Borgia pacified the Romagna province by having another man crushing all resistance through indiscriminate brutality, thereby deflecting much of the hatred from his own person. Cesare then executed the man, leaving him cut in half publically for all to behold - to demonstrate that his "mad dog" had gone too far. This way, it was clear to everyone that Cesare was a man to be feared, but it also earned him a degree of gratitude for being "civilized" and bringing the monster to justice. GRRM includes this masterfully by having Tywin use the Mountain and other brutes for some very distasteful tasks, for example, to kill the Targaryen children. Ser Gregor is perceived as the monster, while Tywin is the beast master. Everone knows who is holding the leash, but Tywin can, at any time, cut the leash or put his mad dog down. He even promises the Martells to do just that, although that's another story.
I think we used that quote as a slide at one point...we're saving it for Ned calling Tywin as much a lion as a fox in part 3...which is a double homage to Lann the Cleaver who was thought to be a bastard of house Flourent (Fox Sigil) and the lion could very well be their sigil as a result of that line
Lizard Crew "One must therefore be ... a lion to frighten wolves." That just fits so well with the story that one must wonder if it was done on purpose.
Or it was his arrogance and self-righteous attitude that did him in quite poetically. He expected his children to dance to his tune as he worked "for the family" in every brutal campaign and political deal, but since he spent little time actually being a father to them he never understood why they constantly fought back. His flippant disregard for them on a personal level is what got him into trouble with Tyrion at the end. Also, if Martin has expressed one idea clearly, it's that there are no "heroic" deaths in his stories. People will die in the simplest ways regardless of how awesome they were in life.
I had a great day today, thank you. I'm not disagreeing that Tywin's children all have despicable qualities. I'm just pointing out the cognitive dissonance that Tywin had in not understanding his style of parenting had a hand in it.
I always thought people gave Tywin to much shit. In the kind of world they live in. In the kind of caste system the books are written about. Tywin would of made a great and PEACEFUL king for the kingdoms. Yes he was harsh, Yes he could be cruel. In the world they are from it still makes a better ruler then The mad king OR DANNY. I hate Danny almost as much as CAT. Need more Cat hating videos. Again Guys perfect video with all the right pieces in the right places. Thanks for this.
I find Dany's decisions as more forgivable because of her age and lack of formal educating. when the book starts she is 13 years old, getting married off to the fiercest Dothraki warlord in the world, and she is at least trying to do something good with the power she has obtained...she needs to marry Aegon...together her ruthlessness and his charisma would be a potent political force...totally agree the realm would have been best served by Tywin ruling
thebovineavenger The Order of the Greenhand Dany's mind is getting messed with super hard by a glass candle invading her dreams guys and gals her decision making process is not entirely her own. Though yes she should marry Aegon while also marrying another woman (or two) in case her sterility is permanent (which I'm not sure if it's real or psychosomatic) for alliances and such...
Dont get me wrong My dislike of Danny is different then that of Cat. I understand and agree with the Sad state of poor Dannys life before the books and what lead to all HER choices and decisions. I just find the whole Idea of any YOUNG savor and a young female at that, to be a Silly and Undesirable Ideas as at that age NO ONE is capable of making any kind of responsible choice. How can she even begin to see who she is as her mind and so much of her life has never been in Her control anyway. Candles, Pacts, Brothers, friends have all made her what they wanted. That however dose not take away my Dislike of her. In life and in literature we all have our own taste. Now as for CAT. Bit-- be crazy. She is 35 has 5 kids has had a life and is a great lady. NO DAMN EXCUSE for any of the shit she has done.
Catelyn has been dead for 3 or 4 seasons now. Why not let her rest in peace? She's some sort of zombie in the books, but you can't really blame someone for what their body does after they are dead. It just seems a little silly to dig up dirt about Cat this late in the game.
Tywin character is one of the most complex real and well written characters in the show. He is the perfect ruler in a Machiavellian sense. But his familial relations are horrible. A good foil for him would be Olenna. Olenna is a power player in Westeros and one of the smartest ones at that. She is the head of a wealthy family. But because she raised her family while considering their personal happiness they are much more inclined to follow her. A lot of his familial troubles could be easily blamed on Aerys. This just goes to show how much restraint Tywin has when it comes to politicking he managed to survive for so long with Aerys in power.
That one drawing/image of Aerys makes him look like an otter, or a seal. The way it's upper front teeth are exposed and the expression on his face, tightly wrapped in his long white hair and beard.. Amazing. King of the Otters.
When I first read the Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli it blew my mind. A book dedicated on how not to be a good person, but how to keep and maintain power and strike fear into others. The man truly was a genius, not in the righteous but nefarious sense.
Tywin forgot one little tidbit, that you must be feared more than you are hated. Even if he hadn't died so early, his actions alongside the Boltons and Freys with the Red Wedding would have still led to massive levels of emnity from a huge swathe of the population leading to them striking at him the moment he is vulnerable. Their actions turned the Riverlands and North into Dorne 2.0 and Dorne 3.0 with regard to all things Lannister (and Frey and Bolton). He thinks he's dealt them a mortal blow, but just like with Dorne and Elia the reality is that he inflicted a small enough injury that they would have lusted for vengeance and the Dornish have definitely been taking action against Tywin during the war. Tywin's biggest failing as a Machiavellian was that he didn't care if he was hated as long as he was feared and that he was willing to inflict small enough injuries relative to the hatred generated by his crimes. If he was going to have Elia killed he needed to make it much cleaner if he wanted to at least limit the hatred of the Dornish and for the Red Wedding he needed to also remove everyone else in the North and Riverlands who supported the people at the Red Wedding. But it doesn't matter because Tyrion killed him... but wait, he made Tyrion hate him by constantly inflicting small injuries and then failed to finish him off with the phony trial over the death of Joffrey. Tywin's understanding of Machiavellian leadership was limited by ignoring the danger of hate
Great video! The Tywin/Machiavellian connection is brilliant! I've been searching for the correct description to describe Tywin's personality type and you nailed it! I look forward to the follow up!
thank you so much! yes we had been thinking that for a while and then we found an author's annotation in the new iBook versions of ASOIAF and it stated that Tywin's character was based on Machiavelli's The Prince
true to form, these keep getting better & better. there's so much depth to GRRM'S works and your videos really help highlight this fact. I love that you keep the levity in them as well.
for some reason we found the fact that his sister said he only smiled 4 times to the best of her knowledge in his whole life funny in a tragic sort of way...and I don't know why that Damn it feels good to be a gangsta song popped into my head when I was writing it but we decided that needed to be included
The Order of the Green Hand it was perfect usage! BTW - right after your video I watched a new one from King McKay about the tower of joy & noticed he dropped your channels name! looks like your ideas are accomplishing clarity amongst the other "theorists" as well 🤗
The very next thing Machiavelli said after that famous passage is that, if you must be feared, you must also take care not to be HATED. Tywin did not really grasp that part, or he allowed his personal beliefs to make him forget it at the worst possible time.
You know what would have been _really_ powerful? Tywin Lannister and Robb Stark working together in the battlefield. Alas, the plot needed them as enemies, but think about it: Tywin's experience and ruthlessness matched with Robb's youthful daring and his speed in making good battle plans. A dream team, IMHO. I think that they would have clashed against each other very often, because of their different natures (Robb's honor vs Tywin's ruthlessness), but finding some common ground would have been a possibility. Robb was not as rigid as his father.
that would have been quite a partnership...I was thinking Ned and Tywin would be quite a force to be reckoned with...I would have really liked to see Ned and Stannis square off against Tywin and Randlyl Tarly
Alessandro Mariotti The Order of the Greenhand in this scenario Tywin would hold Robb back something fierce. Stannis and Robb would have been unstoppable though...
I actually find Twyin's ruthlessness to be a disadvantage. Utterly destroying the Reyne's and Tarbeck's makes sense they were his direct vassals and they defied House Lannister and showing no mercy to teach other vassals that defiance means destruction is one thing (and even then it depends on his own relative power compared to the power of any potential coalition of defiant vassals that could try to usurp him) but trying to do the same thing to with the North without being able to actually take control of the North to pacify it and having to rely on one Northern house to try and pacify and reincorporate it back into the kingdom is pure folly (even if that one Northern house is relatively powerful). The North's power comes close the equalling House Lannister's power (Robb's defeat only became certain when the Lannister-Tyrell alliance happened) and after taking so many losses and having to share power with the Tyrell's who started off with many more troops than the Lannisters and took far lighter casualties in the war requires the (sole remaining) Lannister army to stay in the south to protect their position and therefore can't be in a position to keep the North in line ("Whoever conquers a free town and does not demolish it commits a great error and may expect to be ruined himself" Niccoló Machiavelli) and in the doing Tywin has carelessly squandered House Lannister's prestige. By obviously being the one behind the Red Wedding he and his house and many of his allies can't be trusted to keep their word (guest right is an implicit promise and goes without saying) and the "shit for honour" situation Jamie is stuck in now applies to all the family's dealings. Another aspect of the disadvantage his ruthlessness in the Red Wedding brought was wasting a crucial opportunity level out the power imbalance between House Lannister and House Tyrell by letting Robb or the Riverlords inflict casualties upon the Reach's armies in battle by simply letting them take the lead in attacking Robb and his vassals and dilute their strength by forcing them to occupy ravaged territory. That last point was probably even more ruthless then what he ended up doing, but it also involved some forward thinking Tywin appears to have missed (as in thinking about not just winning the war but winning it in a way most beneficial to himself and his family).
Corey Micallef another thing people miss is that to the North and East of Casterly Rock in the Westerlands he literally has 0 strong vassals that could have possibly risen a decent force to protect the West in his absence since the only powerful Lords House Lannister had to its North and East (excluding House Lefford whose strength is in its position in the mountain pass and its gold mines not its manpower) were House Reyne and House Tarbeck. This allowed Robb to nearly take the northern part of the West unchallenged when he made his way through the mountains and made him a threat to Casterly Rock immediately due to Tywin's destruction of the Reyne's and Tarbeck's (or at least their Westerosi branches... * cough Blackfyre Rebellion Ser Robb Reyne cough*). Tywin also shouldn't have done a very good impression of a Vale Lord and depended on his mountains to defend him so much when there very well could have been a secondary path through the mountains. Without the utter destruction of the only strong Lords in the northern part of the Westerlands Tywin would have more men for the host that invaded the Riverlands due to presence of strong Lords who would've attracted more small folk to stay in the region, more men for the reserve force Ser Stafford put together, and more than likely someone in the force if not in charge who would've understood there was more than one pass through the mountains. When you think about it Tywin's act of abject cruelty bit him in the ass in a big way later. Karma sucks don't it...
Great theory and got me re-thinking a lot of things. One thing: Why did Tywin have to be in league with anyone? If much of this was reacting to other people's foolishness and then taking advantage of whatever transpired, then Tywin does not need co-conspirators. For example, it struck me that Lord Denys was desperate and therefore did not pay taxes in hopes of renegotiating. Then Aerys decided to handle on his own rather than continue to rely on the Hand. Then Tywin played Aerys like a parent tricking their child (don't you eat that yummy broccoli) into traveling alone and not well guarded--I don't think Tywin expected a hostage situation but he probably suspected Aerys' foolishness would lead to Tywin having to save the day and proving his worth. When Denys figured out that Aerys was about to arrest and kill Denys for his obstinance, Denys freaked out and arrested Aerys. Tywin again took advantage of the situation and strong armed everyone else into a plan that was tough but not unreasonable. Why would rhaegar necessarily have to be in on anything? Tywin doesn't need rhaegars participation in other words to come off as a strong leader trying to do the right thing in a tough situation. I also don't get Duskendale's exit plan, as evidenced by everyone in his family getting their heads lobbed off in the end.
thank you...we think their plans unraveled when Barristan Selmy saved the king in the most improbable of ways...he climbed the walls, killed the guard, found the dungeons got the king out, then fought his way through the entire castle and then town and got him out of there...if Barristan wasn't so BA, their plan would have worked...once that happened, Tywin would have had no choice but to let the King dole out justice, and couldn't let Lord Darklyn get away without bringing a lot of suspicion on himself
I LOOOOVE your channel. I wish yo guys had a more nuanced analysis of Machiavelli, but the fact that you guys even explored this topic and made three videos on it, is absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much :)
Thank you so much...we wanted to get into more Machiavelli, but if we did this would have turned out to be a 10 video series...Tywin is so nuanced himself, that filling in all the gaps of the things he set in motion that unless you are really paying attention, you would never notice took 3 videos and an hour and that was only based on TWOIAF...we haven't even touched on anything he does in the actual story yet...he is the single greatest literary puppet master since Dumas' Edmund Dantes in the Count of Monte Cristo
One of my favourite characters in the series, I was always impressed by how brilliantly effective the Great Lion was, and this first video goes into a lot of good detail about the amount of cr*p he had to endure, mostly from that monster Aerys. He was by far the most powerful man in Westeros right up to his death. Pity he couldn't have treated Tyrion just a little (preferrably a lot) better. I've never forgiven Tyrion for killing his own father, and I'm pretty annoyed that GRRM set up a series of events that resulted in his sudden demise. The series isn't the same without him. Poor Jaime - he did his brother a big favour and ended up losing his father as a result. I hope A+J=T doesn't end up being true because aside from Tyrion having seemed to have inherited Tywin's intellect, it would conveniently absolve Tyrion from kinslaying, and mean yet another secret Targaryen. That said, I can believe that Aerys raped Joanna, and that Tywin might think Tyrion isn't his son even if he is.
I'm impressed by your analysis and I'm still impressed about how much good analysis and discussions can come from just one story. GRRM really managed to make something entertaining and deep at the same time.
Thank you so much!! And yes I totally agree, he is a remarkable man, who has inspired a worldwide dialogue that will continue on for years even after his masterpiece is complete.
Tywin was an alright military commander but Robb Stark ran circles around him. If it wasnt for Robb betraying the Freys, hed never have won. He always claims he does things for family but lets look at it closely. He despises Tyrion, bullies him, and ordered the brutal gangrape of the girl he loved. He disregards Cersei at every turn pawning her off like a sack of potatoes in marriage to the highest bitter including an abusive Robert Baratheon. He disowns Jaime Lannister for choosing to honor his kingsguard vows instead of becoming heir to casterly rock. Tywin isnt a family man, hes a ruthless egomaniac only concerned with his legacy, he cares about his children only in so far as how they reflect on his image.
Tywin does bend. When your enemies defy you feed them fire and steel. When they bend the knee help them to their feet lest no one kneel again. Something like that. Tywin was somewhat flexible if you were sufficiently threatening and willing to work with him. For a man on the top everyone is an enemy and an ally. Eradicating everyone for being potentially dangerous will leave no one left to serve.
He sacrificed his family, crown, and thousands of innocents, for his prophecy. He was just as mad as his father, just in other ways, he would've been a terrible king.
WONDERFUL!!! I wrote a comment but can't find it. I've missed y'all. Had my 2nd Open Heart surgery in July. Then I tried to stop taking antianxiety meds. Got manic,confused, and ended up having 3 seizures. CRAZY!! And I'm only 43!! Anyway, I absolutely love you guys. Your videos have great topics and y'all work super hard to make them great. Thank you!! I have a LOT of catching up to do. Hope y'all had a wonderful Holiday season💟🐺🐲🌞❄🔥👏
George wrote him brilliantly; we definitely hate his actions but he still commands respect. It was interesting to see how he kind of had some light moments with Arya @ Harrenhal in the show; it was filler, but well-done filler that brought more depth to the character. They have to do something with the characters who don't have POV chapters in the books. He was well-adapted for the show.
That's a good point, the Harrenhal bits in the show did add some depth, kind of how you imagined he treated Cersei when she was a girl. Can't wait for part 2!
Yes Tywin suffered through countless slights - to him. It's not inconceivable that a slight to his wife on the other hand was too far. Men are sometimes like that, insult them all you want, but say a word about their mother, wife or sister...
I've read The Prince 3 times. He was not Machiavelli, he was the type of ruler Machiavelli was warning about. He used the book to educate would be rulers how autocratic rulers would act, not how you SHOULD act. He makes that very clear in his last chapter.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I see, I can understand that in this medium where the motivation is maximum number of views. Though, it's a hard balance to play as it could quickly lead to misunderstandings. However, it was a good video otherwise. Tywin was the perfect representation of Pope Julius II, and Joffrey is eerily accurate to Cesare Borgia
I disagree with most people on Tyrion being Aerys son. I do believe this little discussed theory that Jaime and Cersei are Aerys children. I genuinely believe this theory to be honest. Tyrion being a Targaryen is too obvious and is fan service. George is subtle he throws oblivious hints at us and then shocks our pants I believe Tyrion is Tywin child. This exactly why hating him is so obvious he furious as hell that his only child is a dwarf.
Great job, I've been looking forward to this one. I really admire Tywin's ability to get stuff done as hand of the king. Our more recent Hands seemed to struggle compared to Tywin to be successful at running the realm. The history of Tywin and Aries is very intriguing, I hadn't done much reading on that and I had no idea that towards the end they basically hated each other. Looking forward to part two!
I'm disappointed that you guys didn't go into the details of Reynes rebellion and what the Lannister song means. Tywin fucking decimated them in place of his father and lead the armies himself.
True, you could probably make a whole half hour just on that rebellion alone. As far as people knowing about it, I've actually found most people I talk to don't even know of the Reynes. (It comes up a lot as I use "Reyne" as my name for most videogames.)
While you make a good argument there is one flaw in Tywin that Machiavelli would’ve criticized heavily and that is his inability (or should I say lack of care) to properly scapegoat. Tywin should’ve had The Mountain and Amory Lorch publicly tried and executed whilst denying any involvement in the deaths of Elia Martell and her children, he should’ve had Walder Frey and Roose Bolton publicly tried and executed for breaking Guest Right whilst denying any involvement in the Red Wedding, not only would these things improve his image towards the Smallfolk (and the few Honorable Nobles) it would also help endear him to Dorne and the North (and maybe publicly deriding Joffrey for beheading Ned Stark and mistreating Sansa), but Tywin didn’t care what others thought of him or his family so long as they felt fear and ultimately THAT is what lead to House Lannister’s downfall.
You inspired me to create a Video on Tywin and how he protects his reputation and legacy. I used your insights about how he spread the rumors about the king. Of course, i linked your contribution in the description of video. Keep up the good work! I'm a big fan and thank you so much.
I could watch your videos all day. All your theories are well researched and clearly explained. Mind blowing stuff. I just have to believe that you two are just some super sleuths that followed all of GRRM's clues, and figured it all out. It just makes so much sense! And everyone else is just catching up. I read through the books a few times and now I'm watching the HBO series for the first time. I'm amazed at how different the show is from the books. not just leaving stuff out, but changing whole Character arcs, totally different character motivations, locations, killing off Characters, and I'm convinced that the books and show are going to end completely different. atleast I hope so. And I'm convinced when the next book comes out that it will be a big departure from the TV show. I'm interested in your opinion on that, and if you think that it's possible for, let's say for instance, Jon Snows' Father to be Ned in the books and Rhaegar in the show? Also, on topic, I'm amazed at the quality of your Character profile videos. I mean, they're mostly what I find on you tube regarding GOT. But you make the vids so interesting and just fly right by. 30 min gone. I would watch you do profiles on every character in the books. lol. I'm interested if you think that the show did a disservice in any way to Tywins character in the books. Or if They did everything well. ?? It's different, you know but it adds more, and I can't think of that character without thinking of Charles Dance. so good. I love his first scene (I think) where he's skinning that deer. Great stuff that wasn't in the books. Love yous guys
+Mike Mercer Charles Dance is Tywin Lannister. He really did gut that stag himself in that first scene. He insisted on it from what I've heard. I don't think it's possible to bring Tywin to life better than Charles did. Pertaining to Jon's parentage in the show... I still have some hope that Aegon and Ashara will be introduced early this season and we will get to see Jon meet his mother, which I think would be so much better than Jon finding out he's an orphan of two people he's never going to meet. Jon meeting Ashara would also be the most powerful scene they've ever shot
Tywin is such a genius that he wrongly assumed that Freys will not join Starks, therefore he will be able to defeat Robb on the crossing of the trident(I think is the name). Moreover he assumed that it will be Robb to lead northern army not some other more experienced lord although Robb was only 14. He wrongly estimated his own forces abilities and thought that sellswords will be undisciplined, what compromised his trap. Then he marched to Harenhall, after while tried to march back to Westerlands when he would fall into Brynden Tully trap, only thanks to Edmure he did not. And thanks to Tyrion and Littlefinger he was able to defeat Stannis. Also he did not see through Varys or Littlefinger plans.
We got some solid framework for a plot to an HBO prequel series to Game of Thrones. Rhaegar Targaryen being coaxed by Tywin into believing his father isn't fit to be king. The feud between King Aerys II and Tywin growing slowly as the King gradually becomes more and more mad. All leading to the crescendo of the falling of King's Landing, Tywin's ultimate betrayal and Jamie pitted in between, with his "honor" versus his moral justifications in becoming who we better know as Kingslayer. I haven't read the books, but it sounds like there is plenty of stuff to work with. With rumors of a Game of Thrones spin off in the works, I hope they elect to make it a prequel spin off.
Tywin has laughed maybe 4 times in his entire life. Way to go Arya....Is it just me that thinks that tywin saw in Arya all that he wanted in a grandchild, or Child.
If they ever make a Game of Thrones prequel/spinoff, I think it would be cool if it's centered on Tywin. It could begin with his life as a child growing up under his father and with Aerys and then culminating with bits of Robert's Rebellion and the Sack of King's Landing.
I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: ‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!’ Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
I posted links to a few of your videos on other channels that were discussing game of thrones. another youtuber was praising you're work on today's last harpy video, so I jumped in there too. your subs are up by about 200 over the last few days! you guys deserve 250k! be careful with snow removal. keep toasty, just wanted to let you know what's going on with videos!
I never thought Tywin or Rhaeger were involved in the Defiance, and just believed what history said. You gave me a new and very interesting perspective on Tywin's genius.
Machiavellian, on the surface. But character wise, Niccolo Machiavelli was quite a different person, very well read, not a character that you would describe as particularly charismatic, military oriented or tyrannic, but more as a skilled strategist and diplomat and a believer in republican institutions,. He had quite a dark and twisted sense of humor, while not being described as a 'stern' character at all. He was talkative, probably enjoyed debates and ambigiously and perhaps sometimes humouristically playing devil's advocate ('The Prince' is a subtle book and it is hard to interpret what he really believed). He was an open-minded person, and in alot of ways probably resssembled a character like Tyrion much more (he reportedly enjoyed wine and visiting brothels), with a touch of Varys ,due to his subtlelty,, being a diplomat and having a tendency to be a covert admirer and possibly supporter to young, promising princes (Cesare Borgia/Aegon Targaryen). A cynical man to be sure, but just as much as he had to be, trying to survive and find solutions to the wretched state of Italy during the 15th century, which happened to consist of countless independant city states warring each other and foreign armies regularly invading on top of that.
Good ruler he was, yet he failed to en sure his family future and legacy. He falied to prepare Cersei to be queen, although he dreamed about it for years. Once he had his grandson as crown prince, he put all the resposibilty to raise him as king on his daughter, despite he did not hold her in high regard. Not to mention he couldn't see and prevent his children incestious relationship. His family is his worst failure. "Your legacy is a lie" ~ Cersei
To The Order of the Green Hand and other readers -- you guys ever heard the name FitzChivalry Farseer? If not, check out the 9-book series by Robin Hobb (3 separate trilogies). It's quite good. Very well written, and some really cool characters. Nowhere near the scope or scale of GRRM's masterpiece, but a really good read nonetheless. And you can see in quite a few places where GRRM got some inspiration for some of his characters and/or events. I'm over halfway through book 8, and dread the end; just like I dreaded the end of the ASoIaF books. Do you guys have any other fantasy books to recommend? I've heard good things about Sanderson, but have never read anything of his. I would start ASoIaF for the 4th read-through if I thought Winds was anywhere near done. I read it the 3rd time thinking I'd time its finish with the beginning of the show's final season -- I had hoped beyond hope that the release of the book would coincide. Now I'm at a point that I don't want to spend any more $ on my all-time favorite fictional world because I fear I won't see it finished. Between his pace and age, and my health......... I know you can't rush greatness. But after a 9-year wait (and counting) with still zero idea of a release date, I think we can duly dispense with the word "rush" now. Can it be the thing has just gotten too big, too unwieldy to finish? Could it be that he will give us Winds, but has no real plans/desire deep in his heart to finish Dream? Gods, I hope not.
I think I could make it a 26 part series and never get sick of Tywin...his role in the books is something you really need to be paying attention to or you won't even notice 99% of the stuff that goes down that he set up
The Borgia-Medici amalgamation of Westeros* The Machiavelli would have been Tyrion or Varys, maybe Littlefinger but Littlefinger seemed more interested in personal gain than theory and its broader application
The Order of the Green Hand you've quickly become my favourite GOT lore channel, amongst all the rubbish here on UA-cam. This is the second time I watch your Tywin series! *subbed*
Well not every action he did was perfectly in line with Machiavelli. He criminally disregarded his own family, especially his children. One of the key principles of Machiavelli's prince was to cultivate relationships, and Tywin just sort of assumes he can walk all over his children without consequence. But the consequences are clear both in the books, and in the show. The Jaime/Cersei relationship, leads to the Joffery the little psychopath, and Tyrion ends up killing Tywin. Its hard to admire someone so smart, when they do something so incredibly stupid.
Really? The incest ravaged Jaime & Cersei were his golden children while Tyrion was the black sheep he picked on the most simply for existing at the expense of his wife, Joanna.
@@Kodanikage There's no doubt Tywin was a King who wore no Crown and one of the sharpest political minds of his generation but his mistakes as a controlling father who cared more about the Lannister family name than the happiness & well being of his kids who bore it that cost him his life. At the hands of the vengeful imp son he despised the most. Funnily enough all 3 kids have his traits.
Joffrey is the villain you love to hate. Tywin is the villain you respect
John Porteous He’s the Darth Vader of GoT
Tywin Lannister reminds me of the Governor from The Walking Dead.
Tywin is a villain? Why?
@@siddarth3955 he isnt. The audience identifies him as such because the story is "set Up", in a manner of speaking, for you to side with certain characters, therefore,everyone on the other "side" will be a villain to you. To the people of Lannisport,the Westerlands and the ones under the protection of House Lannister I imagine he'd be a strict lord,but a respectable and even loved leader
@@jaimemontejano8201 Thank you, it was confusing
If tywin's such a genius, why didn't he lock the bathroom?
hahahaha...I so wish I thought to say that at the closing of this series
Bahaha
Hubris
Coz he needs air and some space, even while shitting. That is the closest thing a man can get to mean he doesnt give a shit about anyone who saw him open. u know, he will kill anyone enters the toilet without informing (except that whore ) . Tyrion escape is unpredictable so he left it open
This comment needs more likes wtf??
Him and arya had amazing on screen chemistry shame he let his hatred of tyrion get the better of him
Those were really good scenes. Some of my favorites to be honest
I'm surprised you replied this being an older video, but yeah i wish tywin stayed longer and having him and arya become so close that she revealed she was robs brother and then maybe they could have somehow found peace since it wasnt tywins fault joffrey barastard took neds head, but a man can always want haha
When you such a badass that there are tales of you smiling...
It's not being badass. It's being miserable.
There's one critical flaw of Tywin regarding Machiavelli. Machiavelli emphasized very much on how gaining support from the common citizens is very important, even more so than the nobles. Tywin alienated the common folk. The sack of King's Landing, the war crimes in Riverlands... (Though probably commoners in Westerlands would've liked him) Actually this is one of the major reasons why Lannisters are losing power - because they lost the support of commoners while Tyrells are gaining them.
excellent point
but you should remember that machiaveli also said that one should be cruel at times to show people that he is a serious ruler kings landing population was an enemy and there is a simillar story about cesare borgia who machiavelli thought to be one of the best princes because when an enemy town rebelled or attacked he would sack it and thus punish the common folk but after that he would lower their taxes build them new homes and other works because you should remember machiavelli said it is important for a prince to be respected but he must also be feared
@@sebastjankoracin7774 Machiavelli specifically praised Borgia for properly scapegoating when atrocities were necessary, which Tywin completely failed to do. He spent decades dragging his feet on punishing the Mountain for killing Elia instead of just accepting the loss, he rewarded the Boltons and Freys instead of doing anything to support his narrative that the Red Wedding conveniently helped him by sheer coincidence, and the end result is that literally everybody in Westeros either hates or doesn't care about the Lannisters beyond the temporary short-term fear of Tywin.
@@lethabomaunatlala7121 I never claimed that Tywin bears no responsibility. In fact I argued the opposite: That Tywin utterly failed to distance himself from an absolute PR nightmare that makes everybody involved (except for the victims who will go on to be martyrs) look like the most vile people imaginable. Having Roose and Walder claim you promised them pardons as you punish them is nowhere near as bad as you giving your stamp of approval, outright confirming you endorse and reward the breaking of some of the most sacred laws of Westeros.
The books get into this by implying that the rise of the sparrow has more to do with Tywin's actions in life than the power vacuum left by his death, and showing that nobody trusts the word of the Lannisters anymore, completely fucking up Jaime's earnest attempts to fix the shitshow that the Riverlands have turned into, with a viet cong-esque insurgency roving around killing every Frey and Lannister they can get their hands on.
@@sebastjankoracin7774 Exactly, Seb. Mac says one thing then he says the other thing to keep his bases covered(baseball ref.) and we all think he's a genius. His whole philosophy could be summed up as, "Apply judgment.".
Gee thanks Mac, that's supes helpful!
Tywin is actually my favorite character in the show and asoiaf
Tywin is one of our favorites too...if he wasn't so mean to Tyrion he might be my favorite...I understand why he hates him, but how he goes about it sucks
That's part of what makes Tywin who he is, a man who sacrificed his humanity in order to strengthen his House. The weird thing is that it's his greatest strength and biggest weakness, he is the polar opposite of his father, but neither of them achieved balance, he would have been exponentially more effective if he didn't have an overwhelming need to show his process, which is summed up in their words "hear me roar", in stark contrast to someone like Littlefinger, who isn't interesting in roaring, only bites when appropriate.
What's even more interesting, and is a fail on Tywins part, is how the Tyrells compare to the Lannisters, the Tyrells work in magnificent synchronisity, each a part of a well oiled machine designed to advance the whole, where Tywins descendants more often work against each other.
Polar Opposites. Great choice of words. This is the reason I believe Tyrion IS Tywin son. Tyrion is the Balance that was need in the Lanisters and Joann Graced Tyrion with her Stability. To me this is just MORE PROOF that Tyrion is TYWINS SON. The twins are Aryes.
I actually like both theories on Tyrion, it works with Tywin as his father but Joanna's grace and stability are also a balance to Aerys lack of stability. One more reason why GRRM is the best, both outcomes fit brilliantly.
Vincent HC He's one of my favourite characters too.
Not in the books, but Arya made Tywin laugh
Ba Lee Dat Tywin smiled at least twice in the scenes with Arya. A very slight smile
I can not imagine anyone better to play Tywin than CHARLES fuckin DANCE. What an amazing performance. Him and Olena Tyrels actress and also Sean Bean Were the actors that no one can imagine their roles be played by anyone else. They deserved more recognition for the excellent job they did.
Maybe Christopher Lee could have
I'm imagining the Tywin and Stannis Comedy Duo :)
hahaha...that combo would sell out every night
Need ten more then we can have "The twelve angry men"
What about the Three Stooges with Tywin, Stannis, and Tyrion?
(Stern glare) Stannis has less of a sense of humour than me. Which is saying something...
MisterTutor2010 I think you could spend every day with those two and never see them laugh.
Tyrion being the mad kings son completely ruins the whole point of their relationship, I mean isnt it said that Tyrion is more like Tywin than even Jamie is.
Why does it ruin it if Tywin has a legitimate reason to despise Tyrion's existence? its somehow better if Tywin hates him for being a dwarf? and I personally think that Jaime is every bit as much like Tywin as Tyrion...he doesn't give himself any credit for it, but his political know-how and military stratagems are on par with his father's...think about his breaking of the Frey siege at Riverrun in ADWD, or all the advice he gives Cersei that she ignores
The Order of the Green Hand Tywin hates Tyrion because he unjustly blames Tyrion for his wife's death, but the book clearly states on multiple occasions including direct quotes from characters that Tyrion acts more like Tywin than Jamie. Tyrion not Jamie would be the best heir to casterly rock but Tywin refuses to accept it due to his prejudice and incorrectly placed hatred.
I think alt shift x does a better job explaining why I disagree with the Tyrion is a secret mad king bastard theory than I ever could
there is one quote from the book from Tywin's sister Genna, who told Tywin years ago that Tyrion is more like him than Jaime, resulting in Tywin refusing to speak to her for a prolonged period of time...and I don't deny that Tyrion seems to have some of Tywin's political acumen, but Jaime has it too...the way the information is given to us, with Tywin's guy Pycelle being the only person who refutes the rumors that Tyrion is Aerys' seems to be a clear indicator that the animosity between Aerys and Tywin was caused by something Aerys did with his wife...Aerys' paranoia and "madness" that Tywin was going to kill him started coincidentally the last time Tywin's wife (who was already widely rumored to have been the king's mistress) visited the Red Keep...Tyrion also has a history of Dragon Dreams, platinum (Targaryen not Lannister) blonde hair, and a black eye that could very well be dark dark purple
i'm disappointed they believe every crack pot theory i want to like them cuz they put work and good research into them but N+A=J and the Tyrion thing.
If Tywin, Cao Cao, and Machiavelli himself sat down and talked that would be epic and worthy of a good few chapters of a book.
Don't forget Sun Tzu!
@@erinb4237 Remember, of course, that it was Cao Cao that produced the edition of Sun Tzu's Art of War that we have today.
GRRM really did write Tywin to be Ruler/King, despite all of his unsavory actions and long after his death he's still the one most suited (or perhaps the best) to rule over Westeros. Looking forward to part two..
couldn't agree more...
As much as I refuse to put Tywin on a pedestal because of the choices he's made in the story, I can't help but agree that he could have definitely been a good king. He made a lot of emotionless and tough choices so I would hope he'd be more empathetic of his subjects if he were king, but regardless, he has the leadership skills to rule a country.
Tywin Lannister a man worthy of being king who never wore the crown.....he didn't need it in my opinion. The most detailed vid for one my favourite characters. Great job.
Thank you...I feel like people automatically hate him for being mean to Tyrion and never actually see how impressive the guy is
Like Tywin said: ”you’re a fool if you think that crown gives you power”
In Tywins case, the crown would only be a shiny headpiece for him, since he ruled as much as the king
Linus E If not more
Arya made Tywin smile. "Most girls are idiots."
Not book canon.
@@SpaghettiToaster yeah only in the series
Yeah it was Rouse Bolton in the books. But still...
Ughh, I liked Tywin scenes in show than the leech lord in A Clash of Kings.
@Andrew Messersmith No that was crap. it was just to show how cOoL is Arya. Tywin would've never taken a random prisoner common girl as his cupbearer. Fanfiction bullshit. I'm glad the show is over and forgotten.
Tywin is one of my favorite characters, and him plotting to kill the mad king seems plausible given the sights he's had to endure over the years. Can't wait to see part 2.
thank you! yea we found more stuff afterwards that we will definitely include in part 2 (related to the attempted assasination). :)
I would loved to have witnessed a long conversation between Tywin Lannister and Eddard Stark regarding family, honor, power an responsibility.
where is the charles dance/sean bean in character pod
I don't, and will never believe Tywin was that bad of a man. From his perspective almost everything he did was justified. (Not saying it was right) but he was tired of his house being a fool..he turned that around and made his family one of (if not) the richest family in Westoros. And he was dealing with shit when all his entire goal was to focus on the realm. Also I do understand his hate for Tyrion. We all know Tyrion is awesome. But to him, this was this child whom not only caused the death of his beloved wife..but could have been the product of a possible affair between his wife and some of his worst foes.
That is exactly how I see Tywin. I didn't really think about that until I read The World of Ice and Fire, and I got the backstory. By the time I was done reading it, I totally could see it from his perspective, and it made him so much more human. He's not evil for the sake of being evil, he's just a man, with faults and weaknesses, who did the absolute best that someone could in the situation he was in. The King was horrific towards him, and he just took it in stride. I feel bad for him sometimes when I think about it. haha Then I have to remind myself that hes a character and not a real person. :) Thanks for watching.
Also, Tyrion reminds him of his fool father, with his whoring, drinking and seeing a joke in everything.
I hadn't thought of that but that is spot on Barry
While reading AWOIAF, remember that it was written from the perspective of a maester at the Citadel who is living at the beginning of the book series so he has nothing bad to say about the Lannisters or Baratheons. Not only does he not mention Ser Gregor and Amory Lorch during the sack of KL, but he flat out states Elia could have killed her own children.
Seems like you people didn't read enough Machiavelli or at least didn't understand his core message: A good ruler can not be a good human. If you want to be an effective person you can't let morality get the best of you. It is all about power and control. If you loose them another selfish fool will get them and destroy your realm. That's why you must do everything to keep yourself in power and the others under your control. If you are moral and just to your enemies, they will take advantage over you.
7 kingdoms, United in fear of Tywin Lannister
Tywin is a great role model for dealing with enemies; keep quiet, don't let them see you upset, take mental notes then annihilate them at the best opportunity.
Most people Tywin got killed weren't his enemies. They were ordinary people who got punished for things that were out of their control
If Tywin got over himself and got along with Tyrion, House Lannister would be the most feared and respected in the land
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes, now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.
Tywin was my first favorite character followed by Baelish and then Roose all 3 master manipulators. Also I love Machiavelli read and re read the book the prince
Very interesting analysis.
I think GRRM chose to build Tywin's character around many of the qualities that Machiavelli describes in "The Prince".
At times the references are even literal; for instance - in the books, Tywin is described as being "as much a fox as he is a lion".
In "The Prince", Machiavelli uses exactly the same metaphor:
“The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves.
One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.”
And, as is illustrated well in your video - Tywin understands and acts in accordance with many of Machiavelli's maxims.
If a ruler cannot be both feared and loved, the former is to be preferred, as long as one avoids being hated by the people.
In this case, Machiavelli advices the ruler to have a "scape goat" of sorts.
Machiavelli uses the example of how Cesare Borgia pacified the Romagna province by having another man crushing all resistance through indiscriminate brutality, thereby deflecting much of the hatred from his own person.
Cesare then executed the man, leaving him cut in half publically for all to behold - to demonstrate that his "mad dog" had gone too far.
This way, it was clear to everyone that Cesare was a man to be feared, but it also earned him a degree of gratitude for being "civilized" and bringing the monster to justice.
GRRM includes this masterfully by having Tywin use the Mountain and other brutes for some very distasteful tasks, for example, to kill the Targaryen children.
Ser Gregor is perceived as the monster, while Tywin is the beast master.
Everone knows who is holding the leash, but Tywin can, at any time, cut the leash or put his mad dog down.
He even promises the Martells to do just that, although that's another story.
I think we used that quote as a slide at one point...we're saving it for Ned calling Tywin as much a lion as a fox in part 3...which is a double homage to Lann the Cleaver who was thought to be a bastard of house Flourent (Fox Sigil) and the lion could very well be their sigil as a result of that line
Lizard Crew "One must therefore be ... a lion to frighten wolves."
That just fits so well with the story that one must wonder if it was done on purpose.
I feel like there is no way he didn't do it on purpose
Agreed; a bit too perfect given the context. :)
How old is GRRM? I bet he, Mel, and Mach had some good times together in renaissance Florence.
Lizard Crew Ever read The Mandrake? Callimaco and Lucrezia are italian for George and Melisandre.
For all of Tywin's deeds and bravado,it was a shame he died so unceremoniously.
I would tend to agree that he deserved more than that
Or it was his arrogance and self-righteous attitude that did him in quite poetically. He expected his children to dance to his tune as he worked "for the family" in every brutal campaign and political deal, but since he spent little time actually being a father to them he never understood why they constantly fought back. His flippant disregard for them on a personal level is what got him into trouble with Tyrion at the end.
Also, if Martin has expressed one idea clearly, it's that there are no "heroic" deaths in his stories. People will die in the simplest ways regardless of how awesome they were in life.
I had a great day today, thank you. I'm not disagreeing that Tywin's children all have despicable qualities. I'm just pointing out the cognitive dissonance that Tywin had in not understanding his style of parenting had a hand in it.
BK His evil spawn enjoy privileged lives quite undeservedly.
he fucked the woman his son loved, did you miss that?
I always thought people gave Tywin to much shit. In the kind of world they live in. In the kind of caste system the books are written about. Tywin would of made a great and PEACEFUL king for the kingdoms. Yes he was harsh, Yes he could be cruel. In the world they are from it still makes a better ruler then The mad king OR DANNY. I hate Danny almost as much as CAT. Need more Cat hating videos. Again Guys perfect video with all the right pieces in the right places. Thanks for this.
I find Dany's decisions as more forgivable because of her age and lack of formal educating. when the book starts she is 13 years old, getting married off to the fiercest Dothraki warlord in the world, and she is at least trying to do something good with the power she has obtained...she needs to marry Aegon...together her ruthlessness and his charisma would be a potent political force...totally agree the realm would have been best served by Tywin ruling
thebovineavenger The Order of the Greenhand Dany's mind is getting messed with super hard by a glass candle invading her dreams guys and gals her decision making process is not entirely her own. Though yes she should marry Aegon while also marrying another woman (or two) in case her sterility is permanent (which I'm not sure if it's real or psychosomatic) for alliances and such...
Dont get me wrong My dislike of Danny is different then that of Cat. I understand and agree with the Sad state of poor Dannys life before the books and what lead to all HER choices and decisions. I just find the whole Idea of any YOUNG savor and a young female at that, to be a Silly and Undesirable Ideas as at that age NO ONE is capable of making any kind of responsible choice. How can she even begin to see who she is as her mind and so much of her life has never been in Her control anyway. Candles, Pacts, Brothers, friends have all made her what they wanted. That however dose not take away my Dislike of her. In life and in literature we all have our own taste. Now as for CAT. Bit-- be crazy. She is 35 has 5 kids has had a life and is a great lady. NO DAMN EXCUSE for any of the shit she has done.
Catelyn has been dead for 3 or 4 seasons now. Why not let her rest in peace?
She's some sort of zombie in the books, but you can't really blame someone for what their body does after they are dead. It just seems a little silly to dig up dirt about Cat this late in the game.
That's just it - he essentially was king for years, with peace aplenty. Aerys just couldn't keep himself contained.
My favourite GoT and ASOIAF character. Charles Dance is a gem. Great video guys.
Charles Dance is Tywin Lannister
Tywin character is one of the most complex real and well written characters in the show. He is the perfect ruler in a Machiavellian sense.
But his familial relations are horrible. A good foil for him would be Olenna. Olenna is a power player in Westeros and one of the smartest ones at that. She is the head of a wealthy family.
But because she raised her family while considering their personal happiness they are much more inclined to follow her.
A lot of his familial troubles could be easily blamed on Aerys. This just goes to show how much restraint Tywin has when it comes to politicking he managed to survive for so long with Aerys in power.
Hands down one of the best deep dives into a character, period.
That one drawing/image of Aerys makes him look like an otter, or a seal. The way it's upper front teeth are exposed and the expression on his face, tightly wrapped in his long white hair and beard.. Amazing. King of the Otters.
When I first read the Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli it blew my mind. A book dedicated on how not to be a good person, but how to keep and maintain power and strike fear into others. The man truly was a genius, not in the righteous but nefarious sense.
yes he was...I've read it at least 5 times
Tywin forgot one little tidbit, that you must be feared more than you are hated. Even if he hadn't died so early, his actions alongside the Boltons and Freys with the Red Wedding would have still led to massive levels of emnity from a huge swathe of the population leading to them striking at him the moment he is vulnerable. Their actions turned the Riverlands and North into Dorne 2.0 and Dorne 3.0 with regard to all things Lannister (and Frey and Bolton).
He thinks he's dealt them a mortal blow, but just like with Dorne and Elia the reality is that he inflicted a small enough injury that they would have lusted for vengeance and the Dornish have definitely been taking action against Tywin during the war.
Tywin's biggest failing as a Machiavellian was that he didn't care if he was hated as long as he was feared and that he was willing to inflict small enough injuries relative to the hatred generated by his crimes. If he was going to have Elia killed he needed to make it much cleaner if he wanted to at least limit the hatred of the Dornish and for the Red Wedding he needed to also remove everyone else in the North and Riverlands who supported the people at the Red Wedding.
But it doesn't matter because Tyrion killed him... but wait, he made Tyrion hate him by constantly inflicting small injuries and then failed to finish him off with the phony trial over the death of Joffrey.
Tywin's understanding of Machiavellian leadership was limited by ignoring the danger of hate
I just wanted to say this has become one of my favorite channels. Top 3 easily
Thank you Brandon...much appreciated
Great video! The Tywin/Machiavellian connection is brilliant! I've been searching for the correct description to describe Tywin's personality type and you nailed it! I look forward to the follow up!
thank you so much! yes we had been thinking that for a while and then we found an author's annotation in the new iBook versions of ASOIAF and it stated that Tywin's character was based on Machiavelli's The Prince
true to form, these keep getting better & better. there's so much depth to GRRM'S works and your videos really help highlight this fact. I love that you keep the levity in them as well.
Thank you...we do try to put a little humor in topics it makes sense to use it in...its hard to make the faceless men funny
or even Tywin for that matter :-)
for some reason we found the fact that his sister said he only smiled 4 times to the best of her knowledge in his whole life funny in a tragic sort of way...and I don't know why that Damn it feels good to be a gangsta song popped into my head when I was writing it but we decided that needed to be included
The Order of the Green Hand it was perfect usage! BTW - right after your video I watched a new one from King McKay about the tower of joy & noticed he dropped your channels name! looks like your ideas are accomplishing clarity amongst the other "theorists" as well 🤗
Thank you...we talked to him a few weeks ago...he seemed like a nice guy
The very next thing Machiavelli said after that famous passage is that, if you must be feared, you must also take care not to be HATED. Tywin did not really grasp that part, or he allowed his personal beliefs to make him forget it at the worst possible time.
im getting 2 feet of snow today...this is seriously the best thing I could have asked for today...thanks greenhands!!
glad we could help
You know what would have been _really_ powerful? Tywin Lannister and Robb Stark working together in the battlefield. Alas, the plot needed them as enemies, but think about it: Tywin's experience and ruthlessness matched with Robb's youthful daring and his speed in making good battle plans. A dream team, IMHO. I think that they would have clashed against each other very often, because of their different natures (Robb's honor vs Tywin's ruthlessness), but finding some common ground would have been a possibility. Robb was not as rigid as his father.
that would have been quite a partnership...I was thinking Ned and Tywin would be quite a force to be reckoned with...I would have really liked to see Ned and Stannis square off against Tywin and Randlyl Tarly
Alessandro Mariotti The Order of the Greenhand in this scenario Tywin would hold Robb back something fierce. Stannis and Robb would have been unstoppable though...
I actually find Twyin's ruthlessness to be a disadvantage. Utterly destroying the Reyne's and Tarbeck's makes sense they were his direct vassals and they defied House Lannister and showing no mercy to teach other vassals that defiance means destruction is one thing (and even then it depends on his own relative power compared to the power of any potential coalition of defiant vassals that could try to usurp him) but trying to do the same thing to with the North without being able to actually take control of the North to pacify it and having to rely on one Northern house to try and pacify and reincorporate it back into the kingdom is pure folly (even if that one Northern house is relatively powerful). The North's power comes close the equalling House Lannister's power (Robb's defeat only became certain when the Lannister-Tyrell alliance happened) and after taking so many losses and having to share power with the Tyrell's who started off with many more troops than the Lannisters and took far lighter casualties in the war requires the (sole remaining) Lannister army to stay in the south to protect their position and therefore can't be in a position to keep the North in line ("Whoever conquers a free town and does not demolish it commits a great error and may expect to be ruined himself" Niccoló Machiavelli) and in the doing Tywin has carelessly squandered House Lannister's prestige. By obviously being the one behind the Red Wedding he and his house and many of his allies can't be trusted to keep their word (guest right is an implicit promise and goes without saying) and the "shit for honour" situation Jamie is stuck in now applies to all the family's dealings. Another aspect of the disadvantage his ruthlessness in the Red Wedding brought was wasting a crucial opportunity level out the power imbalance between House Lannister and House Tyrell by letting Robb or the Riverlords inflict casualties upon the Reach's armies in battle by simply letting them take the lead in attacking Robb and his vassals and dilute their strength by forcing them to occupy ravaged territory. That last point was probably even more ruthless then what he ended up doing, but it also involved some forward thinking Tywin appears to have missed (as in thinking about not just winning the war but winning it in a way most beneficial to himself and his family).
Corey Micallef another thing people miss is that to the North and East of Casterly Rock in the Westerlands he literally has 0 strong vassals that could have possibly risen a decent force to protect the West in his absence since the only powerful Lords House Lannister had to its North and East (excluding House Lefford whose strength is in its position in the mountain pass and its gold mines not its manpower) were House Reyne and House Tarbeck. This allowed Robb to nearly take the northern part of the West unchallenged when he made his way through the mountains and made him a threat to Casterly Rock immediately due to Tywin's destruction of the Reyne's and Tarbeck's (or at least their Westerosi branches... * cough Blackfyre Rebellion Ser Robb Reyne cough*). Tywin also shouldn't have done a very good impression of a Vale Lord and depended on his mountains to defend him so much when there very well could have been a secondary path through the mountains. Without the utter destruction of the only strong Lords in the northern part of the Westerlands Tywin would have more men for the host that invaded the Riverlands due to presence of strong Lords who would've attracted more small folk to stay in the region, more men for the reserve force Ser Stafford put together, and more than likely someone in the force if not in charge who would've understood there was more than one pass through the mountains. When you think about it Tywin's act of abject cruelty bit him in the ass in a big way later. Karma sucks don't it...
Alessandro Mariotti
Have these two working together and the white walkers would be fucked without any need for promised princes or dragons.
Great theory and got me re-thinking a lot of things. One thing: Why did Tywin have to be in league with anyone? If much of this was reacting to other people's foolishness and then taking advantage of whatever transpired, then Tywin does not need co-conspirators. For example, it struck me that Lord Denys was desperate and therefore did not pay taxes in hopes of renegotiating. Then Aerys decided to handle on his own rather than continue to rely on the Hand. Then Tywin played Aerys like a parent tricking their child (don't you eat that yummy broccoli) into traveling alone and not well guarded--I don't think Tywin expected a hostage situation but he probably suspected Aerys' foolishness would lead to Tywin having to save the day and proving his worth. When Denys figured out that Aerys was about to arrest and kill Denys for his obstinance, Denys freaked out and arrested Aerys. Tywin again took advantage of the situation and strong armed everyone else into a plan that was tough but not unreasonable. Why would rhaegar necessarily have to be in on anything? Tywin doesn't need rhaegars participation in other words to come off as a strong leader trying to do the right thing in a tough situation. I also don't get Duskendale's exit plan, as evidenced by everyone in his family getting their heads lobbed off in the end.
thank you...we think their plans unraveled when Barristan Selmy saved the king in the most improbable of ways...he climbed the walls, killed the guard, found the dungeons got the king out, then fought his way through the entire castle and then town and got him out of there...if Barristan wasn't so BA, their plan would have worked...once that happened, Tywin would have had no choice but to let the King dole out justice, and couldn't let Lord Darklyn get away without bringing a lot of suspicion on himself
I LOOOOVE your channel. I wish yo guys had a more nuanced analysis of Machiavelli, but the fact that you guys even explored this topic and made three videos on it, is absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much :)
Thank you so much...we wanted to get into more Machiavelli, but if we did this would have turned out to be a 10 video series...Tywin is so nuanced himself, that filling in all the gaps of the things he set in motion that unless you are really paying attention, you would never notice took 3 videos and an hour and that was only based on TWOIAF...we haven't even touched on anything he does in the actual story yet...he is the single greatest literary puppet master since Dumas' Edmund Dantes in the Count of Monte Cristo
One of my favourite characters in the series, I was always impressed by how brilliantly effective the Great Lion was, and this first video goes into a lot of good detail about the amount of cr*p he had to endure, mostly from that monster Aerys. He was by far the most powerful man in Westeros right up to his death. Pity he couldn't have treated Tyrion just a little (preferrably a lot) better. I've never forgiven Tyrion for killing his own father, and I'm pretty annoyed that GRRM set up a series of events that resulted in his sudden demise. The series isn't the same without him. Poor Jaime - he did his brother a big favour and ended up losing his father as a result.
I hope A+J=T doesn't end up being true because aside from Tyrion having seemed to have inherited Tywin's intellect, it would conveniently absolve Tyrion from kinslaying, and mean yet another secret Targaryen. That said, I can believe that Aerys raped Joanna, and that Tywin might think Tyrion isn't his son even if he is.
I'm impressed by your analysis and I'm still impressed about how much good analysis and discussions can come from just one story. GRRM really managed to make something entertaining and deep at the same time.
Thank you so much!! And yes I totally agree, he is a remarkable man, who has inspired a worldwide dialogue that will continue on for years even after his masterpiece is complete.
Tywin was an alright military commander but Robb Stark ran circles around him. If it wasnt for Robb betraying the Freys, hed never have won. He always claims he does things for family but lets look at it closely. He despises Tyrion, bullies him, and ordered the brutal gangrape of the girl he loved. He disregards Cersei at every turn pawning her off like a sack of potatoes in marriage to the highest bitter including an abusive Robert Baratheon. He disowns Jaime Lannister for choosing to honor his kingsguard vows instead of becoming heir to casterly rock. Tywin isnt a family man, hes a ruthless egomaniac only concerned with his legacy, he cares about his children only in so far as how they reflect on his image.
Last line sums it well.
No matter what I'm doing I always stop it immediately when a Green Hand video comes out.
thank you !!
Damn it feels good to be a gangsta... I love it
thank you! :D
Yeeeees! Love it too! 🤣
A real gangsta-ass nigga plays his cards right
A real gangsta-ass nigga never runs his fucking mouth
'Cause real gangsta-ass niggas don't start fights
same niggas who get scared and discriminate against black folk who live the life a fucking gangsta while you just sing or type it.
Tywin does bend.
When your enemies defy you feed them fire and steel. When they bend the knee help them to their feet lest no one kneel again.
Something like that. Tywin was somewhat flexible if you were sufficiently threatening and willing to work with him.
For a man on the top everyone is an enemy and an ally. Eradicating everyone for being potentially dangerous will leave no one left to serve.
If the Great Lion was born a Dragon he would've been the greatest king to have ever ruled Westeros.
God, If only Rheagar was king....
true, but we might not have a story
Nah he was too much into Prophecies and was willing to sacrifice all to complete the prophecy.
He sacrificed his family, crown, and thousands of innocents, for his prophecy. He was just as mad as his father, just in other ways, he would've been a terrible king.
Hal Effect he would be a shitty king tbh
It is a mistake to take the word of Pycelle or The World Book's account at face value especially when it comes to Tywin.
Keep watching. That's something w2 practically beat into people's heads in part 2
Great! Thanks for letting me know.
Machiavellian does not mean evil, it just means you know how to win.
"So, let's do this!" - love how you kick off your episodes, after the introduction!
WONDERFUL!!! I wrote a comment but can't find it. I've missed y'all. Had my 2nd Open Heart surgery in July. Then I tried to stop taking antianxiety meds. Got manic,confused, and ended up having 3 seizures. CRAZY!! And I'm only 43!! Anyway, I absolutely love you guys. Your videos have great topics and y'all work super hard to make them great. Thank you!! I have a LOT of catching up to do. Hope y'all had a wonderful Holiday season💟🐺🐲🌞❄🔥👏
Technically depending on how many months old Baby Tywin was he gummed him, and a "ha" from Tywin is like a collesium full of laughter.
Another A+ video; can't wait for part 2...those 30 minutes flew by :)
Thank you...it was a lot of fun to make...even though he is mean as hell to Tyrion, he is hard not to like for some reason
George wrote him brilliantly; we definitely hate his actions but he still commands respect. It was interesting to see how he kind of had some light moments with Arya @ Harrenhal in the show; it was filler, but well-done filler that brought more depth to the character. They have to do something with the characters who don't have POV chapters in the books. He was well-adapted for the show.
PBR Streetgang Very true. Charles Dance was perfect as Tywin on the show
That's a good point, the Harrenhal bits in the show did add some depth, kind of how you imagined he treated Cersei when she was a girl.
Can't wait for part 2!
I bet Cersei didn't make him smile like Arya did.
Charles Dance was the perfect casting choice
Order of the Green Hand, you have done it again! Excellent video. Very insightful.
Thank you
Yes Tywin suffered through countless slights - to him. It's not inconceivable that a slight to his wife on the other hand was too far. Men are sometimes like that, insult them all you want, but say a word about their mother, wife or sister...
Asoiaf has the best back story worldbuilding ever . It is even more interesting than some plotlines in the canon series .
That's what i call "Quality content" ! Thanks a lot guys !
Thank you for watching
I've read The Prince 3 times. He was not Machiavelli, he was the type of ruler Machiavelli was warning about. He used the book to educate would be rulers how autocratic rulers would act, not how you SHOULD act. He makes that very clear in his last chapter.
We played with the title a little and decided calling it the Machiavelli of Westeros sounds better than the Machiavellian of Westeros
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I see, I can understand that in this medium where the motivation is maximum number of views. Though, it's a hard balance to play as it could quickly lead to misunderstandings. However, it was a good video otherwise. Tywin was the perfect representation of Pope Julius II, and Joffrey is eerily accurate to Cesare Borgia
Ned Stark would sooner trust a child to a pit vipers than Tywin Lannister
Tywin is an absolutely terrible father
God, Tywin Lannister, Stannis Baratheon, Roose Bolton are all so badass, I really wanted to see a conversation between the three
I disagree with most people on Tyrion being Aerys son. I do believe this little discussed theory that Jaime and Cersei are Aerys children. I genuinely believe this theory to be honest. Tyrion being a Targaryen is too obvious and is fan service. George is subtle he throws oblivious hints at us and then shocks our pants I believe Tyrion is Tywin child. This exactly why hating him is so obvious he furious as hell that his only child is a dwarf.
Great job, I've been looking forward to this one. I really admire Tywin's ability to get stuff done as hand of the king. Our more recent Hands seemed to struggle compared to Tywin to be successful at running the realm. The history of Tywin and Aries is very intriguing, I hadn't done much reading on that and I had no idea that towards the end they basically hated each other. Looking forward to part two!
thank you jim!
such high quality content and technical work. thanks y'all
thank you for watching
watching TOGH vids all day while I work fanboying like a BOSS!!!
Really blown away by the quality of the content. First video I've watch from this channel, and already subbed. Looking forward to part 2!
Thank you so much. Part 2 coming tomorrow
Seeing a new video from you guys literally makes my day
thank you!
Same here! :)
I'm disappointed that you guys didn't go into the details of Reynes rebellion and what the Lannister song means. Tywin fucking decimated them in place of his father and lead the armies himself.
We kinda thought everyone already knew that story and wanted to have time to get into Duskendale without the video being over a half hour
True, you could probably make a whole half hour just on that rebellion alone.
As far as people knowing about it, I've actually found most people I talk to don't even know of the Reynes.
(It comes up a lot as I use "Reyne" as my name for most videogames.)
jordan couturier try reading the books first before you even make a invalid statement like that.
Most Certainly
a statement like what? i know what happened. im saying most people dont.
jordan couturier I don't know what happened either.
Thanks for doing this video, I've always thought Tywin was a perfect example of a Machiavellian leader.
Another great video, can't wait for part 2 guys. love to long videos keeps up the great work !
Thank you...part 2 is already being scripted
While you make a good argument there is one flaw in Tywin that Machiavelli would’ve criticized heavily and that is his inability (or should I say lack of care) to properly scapegoat. Tywin should’ve had The Mountain and Amory Lorch publicly tried and executed whilst denying any involvement in the deaths of Elia Martell and her children, he should’ve had Walder Frey and Roose Bolton publicly tried and executed for breaking Guest Right whilst denying any involvement in the Red Wedding, not only would these things improve his image towards the Smallfolk (and the few Honorable Nobles) it would also help endear him to Dorne and the North (and maybe publicly deriding Joffrey for beheading Ned Stark and mistreating Sansa), but Tywin didn’t care what others thought of him or his family so long as they felt fear and ultimately THAT is what lead to House Lannister’s downfall.
Sir Arthur was tearing ass that day at the tourney lol
You inspired me to create a Video on Tywin and how he protects his reputation and legacy. I used your insights about how he spread the rumors about the king. Of course, i linked your contribution in the description of video. Keep up the good work! I'm a big fan and thank you so much.
I could watch your videos all day. All your theories are well researched and clearly explained. Mind blowing stuff. I just have to believe that you two are just some super sleuths that followed all of GRRM's clues, and figured it all out. It just makes so much sense! And everyone else is just catching up. I read through the books a few times and now I'm watching the HBO series for the first time. I'm amazed at how different the show is from the books. not just leaving stuff out, but changing whole Character arcs, totally different character motivations, locations, killing off Characters, and I'm convinced that the books and show are going to end completely different. atleast I hope so. And I'm convinced when the next book comes out that it will be a big departure from the TV show. I'm interested in your opinion on that, and if you think that it's possible for, let's say for instance, Jon Snows' Father to be Ned in the books and Rhaegar in the show?
Also, on topic, I'm amazed at the quality of your Character profile videos. I mean, they're mostly what I find on you tube regarding GOT. But you make the vids so interesting and just fly right by. 30 min gone. I would watch you do profiles on every character in the books. lol. I'm interested if you think that the show did a disservice in any way to Tywins character in the books. Or if They did everything well. ?? It's different, you know but it adds more, and I can't think of that character without thinking of Charles Dance. so good. I love his first scene (I think) where he's skinning that deer. Great stuff that wasn't in the books. Love yous guys
+Mike Mercer Charles Dance is Tywin Lannister. He really did gut that stag himself in that first scene. He insisted on it from what I've heard. I don't think it's possible to bring Tywin to life better than Charles did. Pertaining to Jon's parentage in the show... I still have some hope that Aegon and Ashara will be introduced early this season and we will get to see Jon meet his mother, which I think would be so much better than Jon finding out he's an orphan of two people he's never going to meet. Jon meeting Ashara would also be the most powerful scene they've ever shot
Tywin is such a genius that he wrongly assumed that Freys will not join Starks, therefore he will be able to defeat Robb on the crossing of the trident(I think is the name). Moreover he assumed that it will be Robb to lead northern army not some other more experienced lord although Robb was only 14. He wrongly estimated his own forces abilities and thought that sellswords will be undisciplined, what compromised his trap. Then he marched to Harenhall, after while tried to march back to Westerlands when he would fall into Brynden Tully trap, only thanks to Edmure he did not. And thanks to Tyrion and Littlefinger he was able to defeat Stannis. Also he did not see through Varys or Littlefinger plans.
haha, yes. i love your idea of tywin laughing hysterically (aka him going "huh! huh huh.")
Who should play young Tywin in a potential Game of Thrones prequel? Personally I’d go with Michael Fasbender.
Arya made him smile. One of the few things D&D did right.
We got some solid framework for a plot to an HBO prequel series to Game of Thrones. Rhaegar Targaryen being coaxed by Tywin into believing his father isn't fit to be king. The feud between King Aerys II and Tywin growing slowly as the King gradually becomes more and more mad. All leading to the crescendo of the falling of King's Landing, Tywin's ultimate betrayal and Jamie pitted in between, with his "honor" versus his moral justifications in becoming who we better know as Kingslayer.
I haven't read the books, but it sounds like there is plenty of stuff to work with. With rumors of a Game of Thrones spin off in the works, I hope they elect to make it a prequel spin off.
I would love to see this era brought to life on screen
Tywin has laughed maybe 4 times in his entire life.
Way to go Arya....Is it just me that thinks that tywin saw in Arya all that he wanted in a grandchild, or Child.
If they ever make a Game of Thrones prequel/spinoff, I think it would be cool if it's centered on Tywin. It could begin with his life as a child growing up under his father and with Aerys and then culminating with bits of Robert's Rebellion and the Sack of King's Landing.
agree!! he is a great character, and one that GRRM clearly put a lot of thought into when creating.
So he's a lion and a fox?
exactly...I think we might have saved that Machiavelli line for when Ned thought about Tywin being as much a fox as a lion
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!’
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
Please do a video on Euron Greyjoy or Stannis Baratheon!
good ideas!! i love stannis. lady gh
I posted links to a few of your videos on other channels that were discussing game of thrones. another youtuber was praising you're work on today's last harpy video, so I jumped in there too. your subs are up by about 200 over the last few days! you guys deserve 250k! be careful with snow removal. keep toasty, just wanted to let you know what's going on with videos!
wow!! thank you!! :D i noticed we got a lot of subscribers in the last few days. we really really appreciate it. thank you again!
You guys are the best!
Thank you...we try
I never thought Tywin or Rhaeger were involved in the Defiance, and just believed what history said. You gave me a new and very interesting perspective on Tywin's genius.
Machiavellian, on the surface.
But character wise, Niccolo Machiavelli was quite a different person, very well read, not a character that you would describe as particularly charismatic, military oriented or tyrannic, but more as a skilled strategist and diplomat and a believer in republican institutions,. He had quite a dark and twisted sense of humor, while not being described as a 'stern' character at all. He was talkative, probably enjoyed debates and ambigiously and perhaps sometimes humouristically playing devil's advocate ('The Prince' is a subtle book and it is hard to interpret what he really believed).
He was an open-minded person, and in alot of ways probably resssembled a character like Tyrion much more (he reportedly enjoyed wine and visiting brothels), with a touch of Varys ,due to his subtlelty,, being a diplomat and having a tendency to be a covert admirer and possibly supporter to young, promising princes (Cesare Borgia/Aegon Targaryen). A cynical man to be sure, but just as much as he had to be, trying to survive and find solutions to the wretched state of Italy during the 15th century, which happened to consist of countless independant city states warring each other and foreign armies regularly invading on top of that.
Good ruler he was, yet he failed to en sure his family future and legacy. He falied to prepare Cersei to be queen, although he dreamed about it for years. Once he had his grandson as crown prince, he put all the resposibilty to raise him as king on his daughter, despite he did not hold her in high regard. Not to mention he couldn't see and prevent his children incestious relationship. His family is his worst failure.
"Your legacy is a lie" ~ Cersei
I like the ideas your brains turn into UA-cam videos
I like that you like them
Tells story of baby Tywin biting his grandfathers hand.
Me: omg a leader since birth 😮
cant wait for the next one
should be out in about an hour
To The Order of the Green Hand and other readers -- you guys ever heard the name FitzChivalry Farseer?
If not, check out the 9-book series by Robin Hobb (3 separate trilogies). It's quite good. Very well written, and some really cool characters.
Nowhere near the scope or scale of GRRM's masterpiece, but a really good read nonetheless. And you can see in quite a few places where GRRM got some inspiration for some of his characters and/or events.
I'm over halfway through book 8, and dread the end; just like I dreaded the end of the ASoIaF books.
Do you guys have any other fantasy books to recommend? I've heard good things about Sanderson, but have never read anything of his.
I would start ASoIaF for the 4th read-through if I thought Winds was anywhere near done. I read it the 3rd time thinking I'd time its finish with the beginning of the show's final season -- I had hoped beyond hope that the release of the book would coincide.
Now I'm at a point that I don't want to spend any more $ on my all-time favorite fictional world because I fear I won't see it finished. Between his pace and age, and my health.........
I know you can't rush greatness. But after a 9-year wait (and counting) with still zero idea of a release date, I think we can duly dispense with the word "rush" now. Can it be the thing has just gotten too big, too unwieldy to finish? Could it be that he will give us Winds, but has no real plans/desire deep in his heart to finish Dream? Gods, I hope not.
i would not mind this being a 26 part series :D
I think I could make it a 26 part series and never get sick of Tywin...his role in the books is something you really need to be paying attention to or you won't even notice 99% of the stuff that goes down that he set up
The pictures of Joanna look like the pics of Jane Seymour from The Tudors tv series
they are ! haha
You two are so good.
Thank you...we do what we can
The Borgia-Medici amalgamation of Westeros*
The Machiavelli would have been Tyrion or Varys, maybe Littlefinger but Littlefinger seemed more interested in personal gain than theory and its broader application
26F'n! minutes!?! You two are over-achieving!!!
we do what we can
26 minutes doesn't ever feel long at all, when the videos are this good! Could be 1h and I'm sure I'd still feel like having more. Ehehehehehe
The Order of the Green Hand you've quickly become my favourite GOT lore channel, amongst all the rubbish here on UA-cam.
This is the second time I watch your Tywin series! *subbed*
Great video as always guys!! Can't wait for part 2!
Thank you
You're welcome as always, I have to go and learn about Machiavelli tho now...:)
SteveM , An actual friend of Leonardo di vinci! The ends justify the means says a lot about him. A red wedding kinda guy!
Well not every action he did was perfectly in line with Machiavelli. He criminally disregarded his own family, especially his children. One of the key principles of Machiavelli's prince was to cultivate relationships, and Tywin just sort of assumes he can walk all over his children without consequence. But the consequences are clear both in the books, and in the show. The Jaime/Cersei relationship, leads to the Joffery the little psychopath, and Tyrion ends up killing Tywin. Its hard to admire someone so smart, when they do something so incredibly stupid.
Really? The incest ravaged Jaime & Cersei were his golden children while Tyrion was the black sheep he picked on the most simply for existing at the expense of his wife, Joanna.
@@Senate300 Like I said Tywin Lannister, while very intelligent, has done some epically stupid things.
@@Kodanikage There's no doubt Tywin was a King who wore no Crown and one of the sharpest political minds of his generation but his mistakes as a controlling father who cared more about the Lannister family name than the happiness & well being of his kids who bore it that cost him his life. At the hands of the vengeful imp son he despised the most. Funnily enough all 3 kids have his traits.