I think the reason Square said it's for old and new fans alike is because those future spoilers that keep popping up in-game would be understood by OG FFVII fans like myself and many others, but new players would find an ominous mystery behind them. It's ingenious retelling of what to me is their greatest masterpiece ❤❤
@@zacatkinson3926 LOL Not even close, the subtile parts are gone, the mystery too, and makes no sense, yeah with a low standard you can enjoy it sure, but don't make us all suffer such crap of opinions.
After beating Rebirth my hot take was that they didn't change the story at all, and just opened up the floodgates of story telling to mine the depths of this iconic tale. The changes seemed to me to indicate that it isn't a remake or a sequel, and if anything that it is a "coquel" that explores the whole depth of the life stream.
P.s. I think the final game is gonna be called FF7 Return. The Loveless play, its conclusion, and how its story mirrors the story of the wider game has given me this inclination. Loveless seems to tell the tale of the ancient battle with Jenova that rhymes with the current battle with her and her son too.
I have seen this with so many other remakes that they come out and sell well, and a year or two later, no one is really talking about them, and people often go back to the originals, but in the case of the FFVII Remake trilogy, we are still having conversations about and we will still even after it all ends, the best thing about FFVII Remake trilogy is the devs know they can’t replace the OG nor they are trying to instead they are respecting the OG and making the remake trilogy a celebration of it.
@ Aerith died. Its a reality. They just want to introduce characters from compilation like Crisis Core or Kyrie from the books, but the story is the SAME. They put a different stamp and everyone thinks is a multiverse, and they even make fun of you showing 7 different stamps. Its funny man but in reality everithing is the same and we real fans can experience one of the best games of all times again in 3 parts. Dream come true
Can I add my 2 cents to it> As you brilliantly said, the ff7 remake project is all about perception, so my take is that both remake and rebirth are that too. I believe, and yes it's strange, but I believe that both games are cloud reliving his memories (or world) of what happened while in his coma state in the lifestream. And that reliving is made into a world, a world where Aerith enters to try to make him get out of it, and Sephirot is trying to interfere. That's why remake is the name of the first game, cloud is trying to remake what happened, but the feelers or whispers of truth don't allow him, and mess with Aerith because she is trying to access his memories. That's why you have 3 encounters near her house, and she knows everything because she already died. And even tells him to not fall for her. Also the effect at the distance is the same as when tifa falls in the lifestream. She talks about feeling as a comeback, and that everyone eventually dies, so we need to make the most of the time we have. And that it's not real. At the end of the remake Sephirot is somehow able to entrap (or separate Aerith's memories from Aerith's avatar) Aerith that's why she sleeps in rebirth, and that's why the one in rebirth doesn't have the memories. So in rebirth, Aerith is trying to rebirth herself, bring about what she knew, so she relives the story until her death, and ultimately does that at the temple when she is reminded why she was there, to help Cloud recover, and gets back to the city of the ancients. Look how the game skips a lot here, she is full again, is able to have a final date with Cloud, with souls producing their dream object, before saying her feelings and sends him back with her memories, so the one part of her living in clouds world (his memories) can get back to prayers. That's why Zack needs to help Cloud recover from sickness to save her, not from death, as that already happened, but because Cloud needs to wake up and defeat Sephirot so Aerith can cast holy (remember in og she was being held back by Sephirot will that created a barrier around it). Marlene even says that, and looks at the reference, to how Cloud is seated like when he is in Mideel. Also, the timelines have the same effect as the ones seen in the lifestream segment. Meaning they are like those worlds cloud enters to recover his memories. They are relieving that. There are also other hints: The flashbacks are all from until Meteor is summoned The multiple choices in both games could be interpreted as clouds not knowing what happened and creating those based on desires. The whispers protect the original story because Cloud is trying to deny it and run from what happened, but his mind whispers the truth, and he feels it too. Aerith Said she would stop the meteor, meaning Sephirot already summoned it, and maybe that's why the rifts in the sky appear, she also said she'll leave the rest to Cloud. She states that she is searching for the real cloud. She had known him from the moment they met The more I search the more my theory makes sense, in Aerith's first encounter, where she is being attacked by whispers, Sephirot appears and tells cloud he is too weak to save anyone, not even himself. Then she gives him a flower for shaking the things away and tells him to think of it as a memento (something to help him remember)
This is actually just FFXVII but they stole FF7 IP to slap on top to guarantee sales, resulting in a poorly written new game and massacre of the OG FF7 story at the same time
While this idea of what the re:trilogy is might well be exactly right, my god it would be one of the most disappointing things I've ever witnessed if it is. All those years of mystery and intrigue and build up and intentional misdirection for ZERO big revelations at the end of it all... Just some... ephemeral nothingness to tie it all together. "Yeah, we weren't actually doing anything new with the story, its the same story, we just wanted you guys to talk about it between games to promote sales, sorry." Really hope there is something more going on here, whatever that may end up being!
I assume you were massively disappointed in Rebirth then, because its whole marketing was the "unknown journey" thing, and it ended up being extremely faithful to OG FF7 until the very end. If not, I think you might be fine if part 3 ends up being "just" FF7
@@paulohtobias No, Rebirth was fantastic. The scenes with Sephiroth explaining the true nature of reality, and Zack's world-hopping, Aerith's 'dream', as well as the new Gongaga stuff, the appearance of Glenn, and new mysteries surrounding the different sets of whispers, kept the intrigue and mystery of the first game going. Seems a bit silly to describe all that as 'extremely faithful'. It really only all works for me if there is still a missing piece of the puzzle which ties everything together though, which I assume will be revealed in the third game. I completely agree with the video that "the original FF7 is like a holy manuscript" to the devs - Which is why I think/hope they have written this game's story in a way that means that that 'timeline/world' still all happened exactly as you played it in 97, and still exists in canon, and the new Re:trilogy is a separate timeline/world/branch/path/loop/iteration/whatever you want to call it from that.
@ I'll admit that "extremely faithful" was a poor choice of words but my point still stands. The new elements that contribute to this mystery were either at the very end of the game or sparsed. For the most part, it was "just" Final Fantasy 7, even when not being exactly faithful. If it ends up being just a decoy to keep fans engaged, I don't think it will really matter that much if the rest is good (as was the case for Rebirth) I personally hope that all this weird stuff is just Cloud's mind figuratively creating an alternate reality where the bad things didn't happen and the 1997 Aerith's scene will be 'revealed' in the lifestream sequence. If they do decide to go in a different direction, I'm cool with too because they have earned my trust after 2 great games
It can’t be a sequel because your going through mostly the same events from the original. Just some stuff removed, changed up and fleshed out. Just a reimagining of the original
Except both Sephiroth and Aerith know about everything, the events of the original, the other worlds and even Advent Children. It's seen as a sequel because Sephiroth knows he loses, he knows Cloud overcomes his "fear" of him and loses his hold over him and that he is defeated. With all the knowledge of what's to come and happened in each world Sephi wants to unite all the worlds and drop a meteor on them all at once (within one world) to gain the strength to actually win this time and become a God with Jenova.
"A reimagining of the original" that's exactly the problem... we didn't ask for a reimagining, we asked for a remake, with more detail, what we got, was something barely resembling the original.
It's a sequel 😂 For any of the main cast I.E. Aerith and Sepiroth, to remember the original FF7 story..mean this has to take place after Advent Children. Although I'll admit, Nomura loves to throw in time shenanigans which imo doesn't make compelling story telling. When you can just change whatever you want and it's not a retcon..it's time travel.. Kinda lazy but the game plays and looks beautiful so 🤷♂️ Final point. If it didn't carry the FF name. This trilogy would flop really hard.
@@I_Crit_My_Pants he saying it is a reimagining is also wrong lol it is a remake and a sequel at the same time. It is the same timeline from the original, but with hindsight for 25 years of extra lore added. It is the fullest celebration of what ffvii is, and i'm glad i am able to enjoy it, and i'm not one of the people complaining about it not being a 1:1 remake.
@Rihcterwilker So where's the bit in the original where Cloud and Aeris had a big thing happen on first meeting? Or what context does this add in regards to 25 years of extra lore? Last I remember it involved buying a flower or not buying a flower and then you moved on with your life till you fell through the roof of the church. Cloud and Aeris had absolutely no real relationship till the church and then to try and embrace that they have Cloud act like he never even met her at first at the church... until he sees the flowers and goes "Oh the flower girl" even though in this, the least notable thing about their first meeting was the flowers.... So it's not even same timeline, it can't be, it's literally impossible because they've created too many inconsistencies for that to be the case. For them to be the same timeline, either the OG or the Remake would have to be non-canon. Sephiroth also has lost all sense of mystery and intimidation by making him around about as strong as Cloud in the flashback and having him show up ever hour or 2 to remind you he exists... In the original you didn't get any hint of him till Shinra HQ and didn't see him till Kalm flashback where he was buff af and the intimidating music in the first fight against the dragon and the way he just slaughters it, it adds so much to his character. Midgar Zolom/Midgardsormr isn't even scary anymore as well. That entire section is gutted compared to the original... No way to avoid it, just a mandatory fight, removes all the intimidation and mystery about the creature. Should've been an optional boss, stronger than the area it resides in, just as in the original. There is no 25 years of lore reason to change this either. 3 of many times where the story hasn't been "fleshed out", it has been completely changed, so no, it's a reimagining with constant nods to the original like some kind of fan service instead of a true expanded story.
I have a theory. Square knew 7 had the most hardcore fans and this could get them to buy it 3 times. A faithful remake would’ve only been 2. So that means pad pad pad and introduce a bunch of fan fiction. I think theyre an abomination to the original.
I have to disagree, rebirth was fantastic, and even after rebirth.... there's actually alot of story to tell....I'm just waiting everyone to cry woke when they find out that you'll be playing as tifa for alot of the 3rd one lol
I think you are right in that they are telling the same story in a way to make the original more clear. The one thing I think you got wrong is that Sephiroth will likely be redeemed by the end because the ultimania for the original points out the different ways Sephiroth refers to himself. People frequently get it wrong that Sephiroth controls Jenova. Jenova is using Sephiroth to control Cloud, using his hero and his memories of Sephiroth being controlled in the Nibelheim incident. Sephiroth only truely appears in the original as a corpse in the Northern Crater. All other times it is Jenova abusing Clouds perception. They use this same trick on the player in Rebirth. When Sephiroth appears before the party, is the whole party seeing him? Or is it just Cloud, and by extension, us?
The phrase for what FF7R is isnt remake or sequel. It's "Paralogue". You'll notice too that FF7R has lost its themes of loss and grief in favor of fighting against destiny.
Wonderful video sir! I've recently came to the same conclusion that this a re-telling of the original FF7 story with new elements to enhance (but not change) the story. The biggest mystery for me right now is *where* exactly is the events of FF7R trilogy is occurring in the FF7 story line. The devs have commented that the FF7R trilogy will link up to AC, so that is probably the biggest hint. More specifically, I think the events we're seeing are happening in the Lifestream's memories while Cloud is there after his initial visit to the Northern Crater (where he falls into the Lifestream). That would explain why we see that tear in the sky--he's nearing the point that his mind is nearing collapse. I think the we'll see the stories of FF7R and FF7 intersect with the Lifestream sequence (expanded of course). At the end, Cloud waking up in the real world and the events will play out as it did in OG.
The story has already been irreparably been ruined by the first part. Sephiroth was made into significantly worse villain in it. The themes of the original were largely erased, you can see sometimes remnants of them, ruins of thoughts destroyed in the way of a different story. You can tell different story, but the problem here is, the new story isn't particularly good, with fate ghosts etc, and it does actively sabotage the original by replicating its set pieces without any of the emotional/narrative/thematic content. That destruction then tries to replace the original.
Yep...doing something new and alternative is always a hazard, but it seems like the devs were keeping their feet in both does, neither committing to faithful, nor to new, so they did a convoluted soup of nothingness, to be able o say that its both new and faithful to whatever side of the fans. Nobody ends up being happy, there's only a group of people that are still in denial, thinking there's a masterplan all hidden behind it. Can't wait to see their faces when part 3 is out, and nothing comes out of it.
So say we can rewrite the bibler with aliens and how we not so alone in the universe and the dread of out existent ,meanwhile have timetravel paradox or parral worlds that one thing that driffren is what we eat in a random day It could have all compilation ,even Genesis , and that Shappier exempler feel like a reach, do anyone question why a gambler wins evrey time , becouse the writer write so it wins this or lose for the story , sorry to rip the curtain but that how is And SE become a opssetion of fighting fate, like all is fate to happen ,altho this people in OG fight there own made fate This is beyond reaching to what was a simpler story in the 90 blow up to multiverse non sense homework
I get the gist, but all those ideas and additions could have been done without multiverse/premonition/4th wall breaking etc. Those themes are just offputting, especially when it is implemented to modify an already coherent story. It's the reason why only a subset of fans like Kingdom Hearts, since it uses those exact same lame and silly plot devices to convolute everything just for the sake of it without adding any value. The reality is though, it was all marketing. It's 10 year drawn out project and everything is just written for the sake of provoking (senseless) discussion and that is probably the lamest part about it.
Kh didn't have multiverse until literally the end kh3, so you are talking about 20 years of one overall universe and even look-alike characters are their own individual people. As a diehard kh fan it actually makes me so mad that the outside perception of kh some sort of infection that ruins other square games. It's literally so disrespectful. FF7 og already presented both the idea of whispers of the planet and pondering the question of if fighting ones fate is possible. The trilogy is simply answering these ideas and questions in a big way. It's fine to dislike it, but people are getting so caught up in the presentation of whispers and fate that they get like memory loss or something and forget that everything “new” came from some aspect of the original. Even Aerith's death. I remind that in the original after Cloud recovers he says the following “I was the master of my own illusionary world “ that is going to have much more payoff thanks to the changes they have made for the trilogy
@@joshz2491 Can you point me to the whisper/fate references in the OG title? There is absolutely nothing of that sort in the original title, not even in AC (AC did bring in the concept of a corroding/corrupting lifestream though) and the only title where it was somewhat implied, was Crisis Core, yes. But my point is, that everything stood on it's own shoulders already. It's just adding stuff without any value, that is my point. It does not enhance the premise and concept of the original story in any way. The world and story could have been enriched in many other more plausible ways. But hey, it's subjective. To me personally, the trilogy is just silly and childish and robs the original plot of it's grounded maturity.
It’s not a dream come true it’s a freaking nightmare. I feel sad when I play the original game now, knowing what they have done to it. Those fucking ghosts are a travesty.
15:09 this is a bad example. With your logic then every single story written is a character defying fate. Defying fate here is the fact there’s an established set of events and the fact there are forces working to defy them completely different ideas
Yeah, IDK. Hamaguchi was just quoted as saying that part III won't directly connect to Advent Children, so who knows WTF they meant by "link up to Advent Children". It's like when they said Crisis Core Reunion is continuous to FFVIIR, but now they say Zack is alive in another timeline. But then there's a whole bunch of dumbass arguments over timelines and multiple worlds and I just don't care anymore. AFAIC, a good story should be able to tell itself. If the audience needs to read a book full of dev quotes to steer the narrative or watch hours worth of video essays, then you have some real garbage storytelling from unnecessary overcomplication. And maybe that's all it will end up being. IDK. All I do know is that these changes or "expansions" or whatever sophistric nonsense they wanna call it had better pay off or FFVIIR will be garbage.
I feel the same way. I absolutely love the Remake trilogy, but the new concepts introduced are getting so convoluted and confusing that it's making me very scared of the pay-off not landing in part 3 and/or under-cutting the themes of the OG. I kinda wish they'd stuck with a simple time-travel narrative on the part of Sephiroth, so we can focus more on the story and implications instead of being too busy scratching our heads the whole way through.
Everyone has their own interpretations. They seek confirmation from the author. There are many authors, and they might not agree on the same thing. Leaving things unanswered, our imaginations create new possibilities. Walking the middle line like a tight rope, you can only guess which side the story will fall. It might not end the way we expected, but that does not mean the path was not paved. FF7 is a mastery in misdirection. Those who look with clouded eyes see nothing but shadows.
Or quite possibly the entire OG happens in Aeriths mind. And she hallucinating and getting high on mako and lifestream sauce. Whats a nice girl like that doing with a broken pipe in a dark back alley? Notice how she looks around after she comes out of the alley as if to suggest she's looking to see if anyone noticed her getting her fix. Its suspicious!
Considering the OG ending, Nanaki is on the highwind, airborne, at the moment of meteors impact diversion. Unless the lifestream unplugged all humans like the matrix; it would stand to reason at least the airship's occupants survived. We know the highwind requires a crew of pilots to navigate. And Nanaki couldnt possibly land it himself. So he either survived a plane crash or some humans had to survive. Also, Where did the female Red spieces come from that produced his Offspring. Did he mate with Dark Rufus' dog? Did he breed with one of the cut indigo beasts or test0's? Wouldnt his cubs have tentacles or be purple? Ive also thought WTF!? since a 9yr old when watching this scene. You and Bugen said you were the last of your speices.
Very good point on Nanaki's offspring. It's funny - there is actually lore on who the female is: her name is Deneh. She was introduced in Before Crisis, but since barely anyone has been able to play that, it's not surprising it isn't public knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if something more about her in Part 3. There was actually a tiny tease of her with Red in FFVII Rebirth!
@@fnlwpn Though not directly related to his potential mate... As far as members of his race goes, we do see what appears to be Nanaki's family, his mom with Seto in paintings at Cosmo canyon in the treasure room that unlocks after some story stuff. She kinda looks like Nala from the lion king. If I'm not wrong, there is a painting there with two cubs too, apparently Nanaki and someone else... Fun fact, they also allude to lion king imagery in the quest for Maeve in her paintings of the story Barret and Red help her write. Anyway, perhaps there is a population out there we haven't seen yet, maybe just not native to Cosmo or close to extinction, but not quite gone yet.
Yeah I have to agree (with the thumbnail, this is before watching the video lol) but it's a very convoluted way to retell the old story but keep it fresh enough for the og fans and keep it fun, and all of us on our toes as a whole....?
i can’t wait for pt 3 to prove this is not a sequel. people swear sephiroth is from ac and doing some back to the future thing or the multiverse thing where different aeriths exist lol great video. the perspective thing is very real. i like the meta storytelling that 7r has been doing
As far as the weapons go, in my opinion. I feel like the one that had tifa was the planets, and i think sephiroth is going to make his own.....?....or maybe jenova did?.....??? Idk lol
I'll keep watching the video but had to chime in. FF7 is not a Bible; the staff can re-write it if they want to. Artists tend to have a different outlook after it's been years once they put out a work ..as an artist becomes older they value different things .. maybe the folks working on this game want some serious changes to take place. Were forced to speculate because we truly don't know until the 3rd game is out. Steven Spielberg once said if he could re-do "Close Encounters of a Third Kind" he'd have his Father lead character NOT go into space and leave his family.. the staff with FF7 Re-series all experienced Covid and loss, it's easy to assume they might want a different ending for a certain character. The original game will always exist; for me personally this FF7 Re-series of games will shine more if they continue to diversify the story and kept audiences guessing. I also heard in many interviews that they want a "happy" ending. I truly don't know what'll happen but know I will be a bit sour if this FF7 Re-series plays out the same as the 1997 release. Not to mention Red13 in FF7 Remake said the vision of him running with his puppies was a bad outcome.. if he knows that, why are you so sure everything will lead to that--? Lead to Advent Children? Guess I'll keep watching now.
Just cause the artist can rewrite their creation, or recreate it, doesnt mean they should. FF7 has become a classic. I dont necessarily hate the remake project, but i understand why some ppl dislike the direction. Its the equivalent of redoing the original star wars trilogy or harry potter series, and having Luke turn Darth Vader good and save his life. Or Harry Potter somehow gets his parents back in the end. Maybe happy endings are nice, and certainly we don't have to always get an exact copy of a story 1 for 1. But certain things are classics for a reason. Star Wars/Harry Potter weren't classics just cause they were created, they were classics because the fans liked what the creators of those stories had written/presented. While completely the right of George Lucas or JK Rowling, rewriting these stories would alienate alot of fans who loved and appreciated the originals. This logic has to be applied to FF7... To alot of ppl its not just a game, its part of their childhood or youth and ultimately the og fans are the reason why FF7 became a classic to begin with. So while I personally am open to seeing where the trilogy leads, i think its fair for some/most fans to probably want the ending to follow the original. Just my perspective tho :)
First of all, the only reason I clicked on this video was so I could read the whole title, I already know what you're going to say so I'm not gonna watch this You basically give it away anyway, at the very beginning with the warning About the only thing I haven't done is play a majority of the original games like the OGFF7 on PlayStation mobile games or whatever, my very first introduction to the story was Advent children back in the day and I've probably watched it a few times at this point. I didn't play crisis core until right before rebirth, and it was the remake titled Reunion And the only reason I played it is because Zack IS bae not cloud.. He's just the secondary pretty blonde stereotypical protagonist. But he's cooler than the others because he's not presented as a paragon of virtue with unwavering loyalty to whatever.. My only argument is that Zack deserves credit and cloud can't fucking remember!!! It's so damn frustrating, he is the only person from clouds past that he can't remember so obviously this is why Cloud is so easily manipulated and mentally unstable Anyway, the compilation consists of other games and a series of books right? And I'm pretty sure they're trying to mash it all up based on the compilation discussion videos I've watched. There's characters added from the books as well as scenarios from a multitude of games in the compilation, mainly crisis core
so you're not going to watch his video, assume you know its content then expect him to read your novel or a response. tbh i stopped caring about your opinion when you admitted you've not even played the OGFF7. How can you form an opinion on half a story. its rhetorical you can't thus your opinion is moot
@@brettrigby2226 well no I don't really expect them to read my comment but I figured someone would maybe and I just felt like sharing my two cents You're not the first person to stop caring about my opinion after I admit that, I just don't see any point in lying to people
@@brettrigby2226 and clearly it's not half his story at all because if it was, I don't think the devs would have released it as a complete game. I mean, I know it's going to be a trilogy, but the games had to be complete enough before release, I understand that there comprised of pieces that don't necessarily fit perfectly, but it doesn't really matter because it all takes place in the same universe and they are trying to come together. I may not know what the original game was about, but it doesn't matter because we have two games with all the same main characters going through the motions and in the same place… I've heard about the game for 20 years now, so I basically know it . But the PS one original is so ugly to look at. I haven't even watched a play through on UA-cam as of yet. Someday maybe
@ I doubt he's gonna mind anyway because the more comments you have on a video the better it does anyway so I'm really doing him a favor🤣🤣 that's probably why he dropped a heart on my 0G comment
Hell.. people these days are stupid as possible.. To like this game's story you have to be brain dead at least. It is not even subtile, not complexe, it's just dumb, 95% of the story remains the same, yet the few changes are dumb as they donj't even bring a new story point since we learn from the game that everything is already set, then you have multiple stories possible, which makes no sense. What's the point and idea behind those changes that in the end, don't affect the story in major ways, but yet make it worse ???? And what's the point in doing that while they promised a Remake that would follow the OG story ??!!! People are f'ing brain dead and that's what allows such crap to happen. They should have kept the original stories, and judging how few the game sold, fewer than remake, people agree to this as we all thought it was gonna be a pure remake of the OG that was a masterpiece all the way in every part of the story. And the worse is i love the gameplay, music, graphics, but the story is a major disapointment.. so f'in sad they baited us with nostalgia, yet.. it's such a bad thing that it leaves you feeling weird, you like the game, but the core, the story, is fucked up.
I think the reason Square said it's for old and new fans alike is because those future spoilers that keep popping up in-game would be understood by OG FFVII fans like myself and many others, but new players would find an ominous mystery behind them. It's ingenious retelling of what to me is their greatest masterpiece ❤❤
Yes ita brilliant story telling and betrer than the original
@@zacatkinson3926 LOL Not even close, the subtile parts are gone, the mystery too, and makes no sense, yeah with a low standard you can enjoy it sure, but don't make us all suffer such crap of opinions.
After beating Rebirth my hot take was that they didn't change the story at all, and just opened up the floodgates of story telling to mine the depths of this iconic tale. The changes seemed to me to indicate that it isn't a remake or a sequel, and if anything that it is a "coquel" that explores the whole depth of the life stream.
P.s. I think the final game is gonna be called FF7 Return. The Loveless play, its conclusion, and how its story mirrors the story of the wider game has given me this inclination. Loveless seems to tell the tale of the ancient battle with Jenova that rhymes with the current battle with her and her son too.
I have seen this with so many other remakes that they come out and sell well, and a year or two later, no one is really talking about them, and people often go back to the originals, but in the case of the FFVII Remake trilogy, we are still having conversations about and we will still even after it all ends, the best thing about FFVII Remake trilogy is the devs know they can’t replace the OG nor they are trying to instead they are respecting the OG and making the remake trilogy a celebration of it.
its a sequel
If you respect the O.G., you respect the remake. Real shit. Aerith didn't really die because there are other Aeriths and other Zacks and other Clouds.
@@ClayvionWhite shut up with this multiverse marvel sheit, fr
@ Aerith died. Its a reality. They just want to introduce characters from compilation like Crisis Core or Kyrie from the books, but the story is the SAME. They put a different stamp and everyone thinks is a multiverse, and they even make fun of you showing 7 different stamps. Its funny man but in reality everithing is the same and we real fans can experience one of the best games of all times again in 3 parts. Dream come true
@@zacatkinson3926 A sequel were you going througth the same events as the original.
Can I add my 2 cents to it>
As you brilliantly said, the ff7 remake project is all about perception, so my take is that both remake and rebirth are that too.
I believe, and yes it's strange, but I believe that both games are cloud reliving his memories (or world) of what happened while in his coma state in the lifestream. And that reliving is made into a world, a world where Aerith enters to try to make him get out of it, and Sephirot is trying to interfere. That's why remake is the name of the first game, cloud is trying to remake what happened, but the feelers or whispers of truth don't allow him, and mess with Aerith because she is trying to access his memories. That's why you have 3 encounters near her house, and she knows everything because she already died. And even tells him to not fall for her. Also the effect at the distance is the same as when tifa falls in the lifestream. She talks about feeling as a comeback, and that everyone eventually dies, so we need to make the most of the time we have. And that it's not real. At the end of the remake Sephirot is somehow able to entrap (or separate Aerith's memories from Aerith's avatar) Aerith that's why she sleeps in rebirth, and that's why the one in rebirth doesn't have the memories.
So in rebirth, Aerith is trying to rebirth herself, bring about what she knew, so she relives the story until her death, and ultimately does that at the temple when she is reminded why she was there, to help Cloud recover, and gets back to the city of the ancients. Look how the game skips a lot here, she is full again, is able to have a final date with Cloud, with souls producing their dream object, before saying her feelings and sends him back with her memories, so the one part of her living in clouds world (his memories) can get back to prayers. That's why Zack needs to help Cloud recover from sickness to save her, not from death, as that already happened, but because Cloud needs to wake up and defeat Sephirot so Aerith can cast holy (remember in og she was being held back by Sephirot will that created a barrier around it). Marlene even says that, and looks at the reference, to how Cloud is seated like when he is in Mideel.
Also, the timelines have the same effect as the ones seen in the lifestream segment. Meaning they are like those worlds cloud enters to recover his memories.
They are relieving that. There are also other hints:
The flashbacks are all from until Meteor is summoned
The multiple choices in both games could be interpreted as clouds not knowing what happened and creating those based on desires.
The whispers protect the original story because Cloud is trying to deny it and run from what happened, but his mind whispers the truth, and he feels it too. Aerith Said she would stop the meteor, meaning Sephirot already summoned it, and maybe that's why the rifts in the sky appear, she also said she'll leave the rest to Cloud. She states that she is searching for the real cloud. She had known him from the moment they met
The more I search the more my theory makes sense, in Aerith's first encounter, where she is being attacked by whispers, Sephirot appears and tells cloud he is too weak to save anyone, not even himself. Then she gives him a flower for shaking the things away and tells him to think of it as a memento (something to help him remember)
It was to rob you of time and money. They could give an eff about what you loved. Play 5 mins watch 20 mins of crap.
This is actually just FFXVII but they stole FF7 IP to slap on top to guarantee sales, resulting in a poorly written new game and massacre of the OG FF7 story at the same time
While this idea of what the re:trilogy is might well be exactly right, my god it would be one of the most disappointing things I've ever witnessed if it is. All those years of mystery and intrigue and build up and intentional misdirection for ZERO big revelations at the end of it all... Just some... ephemeral nothingness to tie it all together. "Yeah, we weren't actually doing anything new with the story, its the same story, we just wanted you guys to talk about it between games to promote sales, sorry." Really hope there is something more going on here, whatever that may end up being!
Well, it's clearly doing things differently. It's just a more complete experience.
I assume you were massively disappointed in Rebirth then, because its whole marketing was the "unknown journey" thing, and it ended up being extremely faithful to OG FF7 until the very end. If not, I think you might be fine if part 3 ends up being "just" FF7
@@paulohtobias No, Rebirth was fantastic. The scenes with Sephiroth explaining the true nature of reality, and Zack's world-hopping, Aerith's 'dream', as well as the new Gongaga stuff, the appearance of Glenn, and new mysteries surrounding the different sets of whispers, kept the intrigue and mystery of the first game going. Seems a bit silly to describe all that as 'extremely faithful'. It really only all works for me if there is still a missing piece of the puzzle which ties everything together though, which I assume will be revealed in the third game.
I completely agree with the video that "the original FF7 is like a holy manuscript" to the devs - Which is why I think/hope they have written this game's story in a way that means that that 'timeline/world' still all happened exactly as you played it in 97, and still exists in canon, and the new Re:trilogy is a separate timeline/world/branch/path/loop/iteration/whatever you want to call it from that.
@ I'll admit that "extremely faithful" was a poor choice of words but my point still stands. The new elements that contribute to this mystery were either at the very end of the game or sparsed. For the most part, it was "just" Final Fantasy 7, even when not being exactly faithful.
If it ends up being just a decoy to keep fans engaged, I don't think it will really matter that much if the rest is good (as was the case for Rebirth)
I personally hope that all this weird stuff is just Cloud's mind figuratively creating an alternate reality where the bad things didn't happen and the 1997 Aerith's scene will be 'revealed' in the lifestream sequence.
If they do decide to go in a different direction, I'm cool with too because they have earned my trust after 2 great games
It can’t be a sequel because your going through mostly the same events from the original. Just some stuff removed, changed up and fleshed out. Just a reimagining of the original
Except both Sephiroth and Aerith know about everything, the events of the original, the other worlds and even Advent Children. It's seen as a sequel because Sephiroth knows he loses, he knows Cloud overcomes his "fear" of him and loses his hold over him and that he is defeated. With all the knowledge of what's to come and happened in each world Sephi wants to unite all the worlds and drop a meteor on them all at once (within one world) to gain the strength to actually win this time and become a God with Jenova.
"A reimagining of the original" that's exactly the problem... we didn't ask for a reimagining, we asked for a remake, with more detail, what we got, was something barely resembling the original.
It's a sequel 😂
For any of the main cast I.E. Aerith and Sepiroth, to remember the original FF7 story..mean this has to take place after Advent Children.
Although I'll admit, Nomura loves to throw in time shenanigans which imo doesn't make compelling story telling. When you can just change whatever you want and it's not a retcon..it's time travel..
Kinda lazy but the game plays and looks beautiful so 🤷♂️
Final point. If it didn't carry the FF name. This trilogy would flop really hard.
@@I_Crit_My_Pants he saying it is a reimagining is also wrong lol it is a remake and a sequel at the same time.
It is the same timeline from the original, but with hindsight for 25 years of extra lore added.
It is the fullest celebration of what ffvii is, and i'm glad i am able to enjoy it, and i'm not one of the people complaining about it not being a 1:1 remake.
@Rihcterwilker So where's the bit in the original where Cloud and Aeris had a big thing happen on first meeting? Or what context does this add in regards to 25 years of extra lore? Last I remember it involved buying a flower or not buying a flower and then you moved on with your life till you fell through the roof of the church. Cloud and Aeris had absolutely no real relationship till the church and then to try and embrace that they have Cloud act like he never even met her at first at the church... until he sees the flowers and goes "Oh the flower girl" even though in this, the least notable thing about their first meeting was the flowers.... So it's not even same timeline, it can't be, it's literally impossible because they've created too many inconsistencies for that to be the case. For them to be the same timeline, either the OG or the Remake would have to be non-canon.
Sephiroth also has lost all sense of mystery and intimidation by making him around about as strong as Cloud in the flashback and having him show up ever hour or 2 to remind you he exists... In the original you didn't get any hint of him till Shinra HQ and didn't see him till Kalm flashback where he was buff af and the intimidating music in the first fight against the dragon and the way he just slaughters it, it adds so much to his character.
Midgar Zolom/Midgardsormr isn't even scary anymore as well. That entire section is gutted compared to the original... No way to avoid it, just a mandatory fight, removes all the intimidation and mystery about the creature. Should've been an optional boss, stronger than the area it resides in, just as in the original. There is no 25 years of lore reason to change this either.
3 of many times where the story hasn't been "fleshed out", it has been completely changed, so no, it's a reimagining with constant nods to the original like some kind of fan service instead of a true expanded story.
Its a sequel ppl
I have a theory. Square knew 7 had the most hardcore fans and this could get them to buy it 3 times. A faithful remake would’ve only been 2. So that means pad pad pad and introduce a bunch of fan fiction. I think theyre an abomination to the original.
I have to disagree, rebirth was fantastic, and even after rebirth.... there's actually alot of story to tell....I'm just waiting everyone to cry woke when they find out that you'll be playing as tifa for alot of the 3rd one lol
Thankfully you’re not a game developer or writer.
@MarkA15 okay lol
@MarkA15 thankfully you're opinion doesn't matter
I think you are right in that they are telling the same story in a way to make the original more clear. The one thing I think you got wrong is that Sephiroth will likely be redeemed by the end because the ultimania for the original points out the different ways Sephiroth refers to himself. People frequently get it wrong that Sephiroth controls Jenova. Jenova is using Sephiroth to control Cloud, using his hero and his memories of Sephiroth being controlled in the Nibelheim incident. Sephiroth only truely appears in the original as a corpse in the Northern Crater. All other times it is Jenova abusing Clouds perception. They use this same trick on the player in Rebirth. When Sephiroth appears before the party, is the whole party seeing him? Or is it just Cloud, and by extension, us?
The green dragon at the beginning of the game not being there, is my only problem
I have a second, the lack of actual Tankceratops !
The phrase for what FF7R is isnt remake or sequel. It's "Paralogue". You'll notice too that FF7R has lost its themes of loss and grief in favor of fighting against destiny.
Wonderful video sir! I've recently came to the same conclusion that this a re-telling of the original FF7 story with new elements to enhance (but not change) the story. The biggest mystery for me right now is *where* exactly is the events of FF7R trilogy is occurring in the FF7 story line. The devs have commented that the FF7R trilogy will link up to AC, so that is probably the biggest hint. More specifically, I think the events we're seeing are happening in the Lifestream's memories while Cloud is there after his initial visit to the Northern Crater (where he falls into the Lifestream). That would explain why we see that tear in the sky--he's nearing the point that his mind is nearing collapse. I think the we'll see the stories of FF7R and FF7 intersect with the Lifestream sequence (expanded of course). At the end, Cloud waking up in the real world and the events will play out as it did in OG.
The story has already been irreparably been ruined by the first part. Sephiroth was made into significantly worse villain in it. The themes of the original were largely erased, you can see sometimes remnants of them, ruins of thoughts destroyed in the way of a different story.
You can tell different story, but the problem here is, the new story isn't particularly good, with fate ghosts etc, and it does actively sabotage the original by replicating its set pieces without any of the emotional/narrative/thematic content. That destruction then tries to replace the original.
Yep...doing something new and alternative is always a hazard, but it seems like the devs were keeping their feet in both does, neither committing to faithful, nor to new, so they did a convoluted soup of nothingness, to be able o say that its both new and faithful to whatever side of the fans. Nobody ends up being happy, there's only a group of people that are still in denial, thinking there's a masterplan all hidden behind it.
Can't wait to see their faces when part 3 is out, and nothing comes out of it.
So say we can rewrite the bibler with aliens and how we not so alone in the universe and the dread of out existent ,meanwhile have timetravel paradox or parral worlds that one thing that driffren is what we eat in a random day
It could have all compilation ,even Genesis , and that Shappier exempler feel like a reach, do anyone question why a gambler wins evrey time , becouse the writer write so it wins this or lose for the story , sorry to rip the curtain but that how is
And SE become a opssetion of fighting fate, like all is fate to happen ,altho this people in OG fight there own made fate
This is beyond reaching to what was a simpler story in the 90 blow up to multiverse non sense homework
I get the gist, but all those ideas and additions could have been done without multiverse/premonition/4th wall breaking etc. Those themes are just offputting, especially when it is implemented to modify an already coherent story. It's the reason why only a subset of fans like Kingdom Hearts, since it uses those exact same lame and silly plot devices to convolute everything just for the sake of it without adding any value. The reality is though, it was all marketing. It's 10 year drawn out project and everything is just written for the sake of provoking (senseless) discussion and that is probably the lamest part about it.
Kh didn't have multiverse until literally the end kh3, so you are talking about 20 years of one overall universe and even look-alike characters are their own individual people. As a diehard kh fan it actually makes me so mad that the outside perception of kh some sort of infection that ruins other square games. It's literally so disrespectful. FF7 og already presented both the idea of whispers of the planet and pondering the question of if fighting ones fate is possible. The trilogy is simply answering these ideas and questions in a big way. It's fine to dislike it, but people are getting so caught up in the presentation of whispers and fate that they get like memory loss or something and forget that everything “new” came from some aspect of the original. Even Aerith's death. I remind that in the original after Cloud recovers he says the following “I was the master of my own illusionary world “ that is going to have much more payoff thanks to the changes they have made for the trilogy
@@joshz2491 Can you point me to the whisper/fate references in the OG title? There is absolutely nothing of that sort in the original title, not even in AC (AC did bring in the concept of a corroding/corrupting lifestream though) and the only title where it was somewhat implied, was Crisis Core, yes. But my point is, that everything stood on it's own shoulders already. It's just adding stuff without any value, that is my point. It does not enhance the premise and concept of the original story in any way. The world and story could have been enriched in many other more plausible ways. But hey, it's subjective. To me personally, the trilogy is just silly and childish and robs the original plot of it's grounded maturity.
@@dshearwf 💯👋
It’s not a dream come true it’s a freaking nightmare. I feel sad when I play the original game now, knowing what they have done to it. Those fucking ghosts are a travesty.
15:09 this is a bad example. With your logic then every single story written is a character defying fate. Defying fate here is the fact there’s an established set of events and the fact there are forces working to defy them completely different ideas
Yeah, IDK. Hamaguchi was just quoted as saying that part III won't directly connect to Advent Children, so who knows WTF they meant by "link up to Advent Children". It's like when they said Crisis Core Reunion is continuous to FFVIIR, but now they say Zack is alive in another timeline. But then there's a whole bunch of dumbass arguments over timelines and multiple worlds and I just don't care anymore. AFAIC, a good story should be able to tell itself. If the audience needs to read a book full of dev quotes to steer the narrative or watch hours worth of video essays, then you have some real garbage storytelling from unnecessary overcomplication.
And maybe that's all it will end up being. IDK. All I do know is that these changes or "expansions" or whatever sophistric nonsense they wanna call it had better pay off or FFVIIR will be garbage.
I feel the same way. I absolutely love the Remake trilogy, but the new concepts introduced are getting so convoluted and confusing that it's making me very scared of the pay-off not landing in part 3 and/or under-cutting the themes of the OG. I kinda wish they'd stuck with a simple time-travel narrative on the part of Sephiroth, so we can focus more on the story and implications instead of being too busy scratching our heads the whole way through.
that would be thruth if the third part was already out, but it isn't, and all explanations will certainly come there
Everyone has their own interpretations. They seek confirmation from the author. There are many authors, and they might not agree on the same thing. Leaving things unanswered, our imaginations create new possibilities. Walking the middle line like a tight rope, you can only guess which side the story will fall. It might not end the way we expected, but that does not mean the path was not paved. FF7 is a mastery in misdirection. Those who look with clouded eyes see nothing but shadows.
"FFVIIR will be garbage". Uh no it is garbage.🤢🤮
Or quite possibly the entire OG happens in Aeriths mind. And she hallucinating and getting high on mako and lifestream sauce. Whats a nice girl like that doing with a broken pipe in a dark back alley? Notice how she looks around after she comes out of the alley as if to suggest she's looking to see if anyone noticed her getting her fix. Its suspicious!
Yeah and if true no one will care about this trilogy in the future
omg ! i enjoy 1 hour long of this ! thanks you so much ! now I am at cosmo canyon XD
Considering the OG ending, Nanaki is on the highwind, airborne, at the moment of meteors impact diversion. Unless the lifestream unplugged all humans like the matrix; it would stand to reason at least the airship's occupants survived.
We know the highwind requires a crew of pilots to navigate. And Nanaki couldnt possibly land it himself. So he either survived a plane crash or some humans had to survive.
Also, Where did the female Red spieces come from that produced his Offspring. Did he mate with Dark Rufus' dog? Did he breed with one of the cut indigo beasts or test0's? Wouldnt his cubs have tentacles or be purple? Ive also thought WTF!? since a 9yr old when watching this scene. You and Bugen said you were the last of your speices.
Very good point on Nanaki's offspring. It's funny - there is actually lore on who the female is: her name is Deneh. She was introduced in Before Crisis, but since barely anyone has been able to play that, it's not surprising it isn't public knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if something more about her in Part 3. There was actually a tiny tease of her with Red in FFVII Rebirth!
@@fnlwpn Though not directly related to his potential mate... As far as members of his race goes, we do see what appears to be Nanaki's family, his mom with Seto in paintings at Cosmo canyon in the treasure room that unlocks after some story stuff. She kinda looks like Nala from the lion king. If I'm not wrong, there is a painting there with two cubs too, apparently Nanaki and someone else... Fun fact, they also allude to lion king imagery in the quest for Maeve in her paintings of the story Barret and Red help her write. Anyway, perhaps there is a population out there we haven't seen yet, maybe just not native to Cosmo or close to extinction, but not quite gone yet.
Absolutely! Will be very interesting to see if that is explored at all in the final game.
Yeah I have to agree (with the thumbnail, this is before watching the video lol) but it's a very convoluted way to retell the old story but keep it fresh enough for the og fans and keep it fun, and all of us on our toes as a whole....?
Spot freaking on!!!!
I hope not because I never liked the ending of the original, nor did I like any of its sequels. FFVII deserved better than AC and DoC.
i can’t wait for pt 3 to prove this is not a sequel. people swear sephiroth is from ac and doing some back to the future thing or the multiverse thing where different aeriths exist lol
great video. the perspective thing is very real. i like the meta storytelling that 7r has been doing
The cope levels in this video are off the charts 🤣
Can you elaborate what you mean? I can't quite follow what you mean by cope?
Thank you so much for this. What an amazing video - I'm tired of hearing about a sequel!! SHE'S DEAD!
I really like to see Final fantasy 7-X2
*advent children the game
VII-2
That was advent children. You’re currently playing ff7-2, parts I and II.
As far as the weapons go, in my opinion. I feel like the one that had tifa was the planets, and i think sephiroth is going to make his own.....?....or maybe jenova did?.....??? Idk lol
I'll keep watching the video but had to chime in. FF7 is not a Bible; the staff can re-write it if they want to. Artists tend to have a different outlook after it's been years once they put out a work ..as an artist becomes older they value different things .. maybe the folks working on this game want some serious changes to take place. Were forced to speculate because we truly don't know until the 3rd game is out.
Steven Spielberg once said if he could re-do "Close Encounters of a Third Kind" he'd have his Father lead character NOT go into space and leave his family.. the staff with FF7 Re-series all experienced Covid and loss, it's easy to assume they might want a different ending for a certain character. The original game will always exist; for me personally this FF7 Re-series of games will shine more if they continue to diversify the story and kept audiences guessing. I also heard in many interviews that they want a "happy" ending. I truly don't know what'll happen but know I will be a bit sour if this FF7 Re-series plays out the same as the 1997 release. Not to mention Red13 in FF7 Remake said the vision of him running with his puppies was a bad outcome.. if he knows that, why are you so sure everything will lead to that--? Lead to Advent Children? Guess I'll keep watching now.
Just cause the artist can rewrite their creation, or recreate it, doesnt mean they should. FF7 has become a classic. I dont necessarily hate the remake project, but i understand why some ppl dislike the direction. Its the equivalent of redoing the original star wars trilogy or harry potter series, and having Luke turn Darth Vader good and save his life. Or Harry Potter somehow gets his parents back in the end.
Maybe happy endings are nice, and certainly we don't have to always get an exact copy of a story 1 for 1. But certain things are classics for a reason. Star Wars/Harry Potter weren't classics just cause they were created, they were classics because the fans liked what the creators of those stories had written/presented. While completely the right of George Lucas or JK Rowling, rewriting these stories would alienate alot of fans who loved and appreciated the originals. This logic has to be applied to FF7... To alot of ppl its not just a game, its part of their childhood or youth and ultimately the og fans are the reason why FF7 became a classic to begin with. So while I personally am open to seeing where the trilogy leads, i think its fair for some/most fans to probably want the ending to follow the original. Just my perspective tho :)
I will never forgive them for ruining this game
?
First of all, the only reason I clicked on this video was so I could read the whole title, I already know what you're going to say so I'm not gonna watch this
You basically give it away anyway, at the very beginning with the warning
About the only thing I haven't done is play a majority of the original games like the OGFF7 on PlayStation mobile games or whatever, my very first introduction to the story was Advent children back in the day and I've probably watched it a few times at this point.
I didn't play crisis core until right before rebirth, and it was the remake titled Reunion
And the only reason I played it is because Zack IS bae not cloud.. He's just the secondary pretty blonde stereotypical protagonist.
But he's cooler than the others because he's not presented as a paragon of virtue with unwavering loyalty to whatever..
My only argument is that Zack deserves credit and cloud can't fucking remember!!!
It's so damn frustrating, he is the only person from clouds past that he can't remember so obviously this is why Cloud is so easily manipulated and mentally unstable
Anyway, the compilation consists of other games and a series of books right? And I'm pretty sure they're trying to mash it all up based on the compilation discussion videos I've watched.
There's characters added from the books as well as scenarios from a multitude of games in the compilation, mainly crisis core
so you're not going to watch his video, assume you know its content then expect him to read your novel or a response. tbh i stopped caring about your opinion when you admitted you've not even played the OGFF7. How can you form an opinion on half a story. its rhetorical you can't thus your opinion is moot
@@brettrigby2226 well no I don't really expect them to read my comment but I figured someone would maybe and I just felt like sharing my two cents
You're not the first person to stop caring about my opinion after I admit that, I just don't see any point in lying to people
@@brettrigby2226 and clearly it's not half his story at all because if it was, I don't think the devs would have released it as a complete game. I mean, I know it's going to be a trilogy, but the games had to be complete enough before release, I understand that there comprised of pieces that don't necessarily fit perfectly, but it doesn't really matter because it all takes place in the same universe and they are trying to come together.
I may not know what the original game was about, but it doesn't matter because we have two games with all the same main characters going through the motions and in the same place… I've heard about the game for 20 years now, so I basically know it . But the PS one original is so ugly to look at. I haven't even watched a play through on UA-cam as of yet. Someday maybe
@ I doubt he's gonna mind anyway because the more comments you have on a video the better it does anyway so I'm really doing him a favor🤣🤣 that's probably why he dropped a heart on my 0G comment
Hell.. people these days are stupid as possible.. To like this game's story you have to be brain dead at least. It is not even subtile, not complexe, it's just dumb, 95% of the story remains the same, yet the few changes are dumb as they donj't even bring a new story point since we learn from the game that everything is already set, then you have multiple stories possible, which makes no sense.
What's the point and idea behind those changes that in the end, don't affect the story in major ways, but yet make it worse ????
And what's the point in doing that while they promised a Remake that would follow the OG story ??!!! People are f'ing brain dead and that's what allows such crap to happen.
They should have kept the original stories, and judging how few the game sold, fewer than remake, people agree to this as we all thought it was gonna be a pure remake of the OG that was a masterpiece all the way in every part of the story.
And the worse is i love the gameplay, music, graphics, but the story is a major disapointment.. so f'in sad they baited us with nostalgia, yet.. it's such a bad thing that it leaves you feeling weird, you like the game, but the core, the story, is fucked up.