Destiny sounds like he’s experiencing a lot of the toxic shame that comes with undiagnosed adult ADHD. Often a childhood of parents telling a child that ‘if they just put in the effort they’d succeed’ often leads to the feeling of guilt and shame when taking stimulants. It’s a feeling of a lack of worth and that you’re using a shortcut.
@@balsaaa ADHD is a real disorder with a list of criteria for diagnosis in the DSM-5. Which a lot of symptoms of ADHD are caused by a low level of dopamine. Ignoring that and instead choosing to listen to your own dumb biases is extremely anti intellectual and ignorant. Especially if there are other disorder in the DSM-5 that you think are real
This was fantastic. Thank you Destiny for being so vulnerable, I made a lot of notes for my own therapist to talk over because I had so many reactions to this discussion. Probably the most human/relatable I’ve ever seen Destiny on a platform. Thank you both.
It's fascinating that he's obsessed with productivity while his only "product" is wasting other people's lives, many of whom have similar struggles to his son and himself, and he exploits those struggles and weaknesses to get wealthier
Did dr K ever asked him about that? How does Destiny justify this to himself and why is he still engaged in predatory wasting of people's lives and getting crumbs from addicted kids even though he doesn't need their money and didn't need it for a long long time?
@@redeyesb.dragonite8562 I don't really "disagree" with it. He does what he does, and the product he creates goes completely against his own principles. It's kinda like a vegan owning a meat factory. It's just interesting how he reconciles this
@@NJ-wb1cz Can you be more specific and give an example? I'm not sure how you don't disagree with engaging in predatory wasting of people's lives so you can get money you don't need from addicted kids, even if you don't think that's bad I do, so I would like to see an example of it.
What he's describing his school experience as, is exactly how my middle school to university experience looked like. I was both told that I'm at least as smart as everyone else, if not more, but at the same time, it took me 3x the time to finish anything, and I horribly struggled with homework. Even when it came to depression, medication was a "I've given up" measure. That didn't even last very long, because it made me feel orders of magnitude worse, and I haven't tried a different kind
The pill conversation reminded me of a conversation I had with my neurologist. I have chronic migraines and have since I was young. I just recently got a diagnosis at 40 and I am trying pain management to help mitigate the migraines. I also had a really hard time with taking my medication until my migraine was really really bad. My neurologist asked me why. What was my reason for struggling? I sat there completely flabbergasted for a few minutes and I couldn’t answer her. I had this assumption that you should only take the medication if the condition is too bad and you’ll like die if you don’t take it. She asked me how would I know I was dying? She also asked me, what I would earn by struggling. Would I earn some sort of medal or badge? I felt absolutely stupid for not realizing I didn’t have to struggle this entire time. I didn’t HAVE TO be in pain. I could take my medication when the signs of the migraine starting happen. My life has changed tremendously ever since this talk. I’m using my medication in the way it was meant to be taken and I have been able to function better without being in pain. You don’t have to struggle. There’s nothing to gain by struggling needlessly.
Isn’t that a weird thing about humans? I often do this with ibuprofen and cramps, I feel like I have to wait until I can’t take it anymore to take some ibuprofen instead of just taking it at the first sign of pain. And I came across a post a while ago where a LOT of people said they do the same thing or something similar in the vein of waiting a long time to take medicine that would ease symptoms. Something that stuck with me from the comments was that someone said that as a kid they’d do that and then their mom told them something like “don’t you think the person who invented this medicine would be really sad that you won’t let it help you?” I’m trying to get better about it too, and I’m glad you’ve been able to work on it!
@@bibubbletea 💯! I would do the same with my cramps! I realized recently that I had my pain downplayed or dismissed ever since I was a kid. I even hear some parents do this with their kids now. Their kids will try to communicate that something is wrong or hurts and their parent will snap at them to quit whining. Just suck it up. I was told when I was young that my headaches couldn’t possibly be THAT bad, or as one doctor told my parents, I was just faking it to get their attention. I learned at a very young age to just try to ignore it. But the next day the headache was worse, I would just have to learn how to tolerate it better. It got to a point where I thought everyone had really bad headaches all the time and I wondered how the hell they could function so well and why was I struggling?
@@bibubbletea Not to step on someones toes but i think this is the same that happened with covid vaccine. My guess would be that humans in general would rather be fucked up by some external forces than by their own action (and we in general dont see inaction as an action). Since all medications have side effects, i rather be fucked by my illlnes or whatever than take the risk to fuck myself up actively with taking a pill. In our mind, one of them is a choice, the other is not.
Man this video hit home from beginning to end. I'm 33 years old and just got diagnosed with ADHD (non hyperactive) and the amount of regret and self shame and judgment I live with is paralyzing. So hard to let go of that feeling.
I'm 38. Ive been diagnosed for almost 10 years and only recently (2 months ago), gotten the correct medication. Just keep working on those feelings, it Gets better 😊 Also, look out for that "i gotta do everyThing now, because i dont know when i will have energy again" feels 😂
I’m 32 and was diagnosed with ADD when I was really young (like somewhere around 11ish). I know it’s all adhd now, and I kinda want to try like a low dose of medication for it. I’m worried to though because I have anxiety and it’s a stimulant. I take an ssri medication for it as well as depression. I also take kind of as more of immediate/emergency need a benzo for a full on panic attack an what not. Idk if they’re compatible but I always wondered if this would help me for reading and focus in general. I know a lot of people reading aren’t doctors but does anybody know much about all of that lol?
I always look forward to these talks between Destiny and Dr K. I love how Destiny is so respectful of him as he knows how intelligent he is. And he is really open and listens very carefully to him. I also feel like Destiny seems to be opening himself up a bit more to the emotional side of himself which is really awesome to see. Can't wait for future convos!!
Just stumbled across this today and as someone who was just diagnosed 2 years ago as an adult and started stimulants 6 months ago, I went through a lot of the same thought process as Destiny. For me, I felt there was a distinction though between "brain altering" medication like stimulants versus other medications because you could take Destiny's throught process and say "I shouldn't take antibiotics or vaccines because it's a shortcut and my body SHOULD be able to fight that infection on it's own". Of course that falls apart for most of us, we get sick, we take the medication. Medications that mess with neurochemistry are scary and have a stigma around them and I think (at least for me) that was the bigger concern that created hesitancy. But I accepted it and find low does stimulants are HUGELY helpful.
Just started listening, I had a very similar experience to Destiny with discovering my ADHD and starting stimulants and "perpetually behind". If you vibe with his story, please look up the term monotropism and seek medical and professional support and engage in the process fully! Pills help, but can't "cure" any underlying struggles. I discovered after years of stimulants and admitting myself into a partial hospitalization program (PHP) was that I also had undiagnosed OCD and ASD since I was a child and was close to developing OCPD had I not sought additional help after experiencing reoccurring burnout for a decade and a half.
Oh my god, this Destiny guy talking with Dr K is like watching a video of me and my psychologist, complete with him sipping a red bull. Those questions and fear he has of the medication vs shouldn't he just have self control? is right on point.
As someone who also grew up conservative, I can 100% connect with Destiny's hang-up around using a pill as a crutch. But that is a learned attitude, not something descriptive. Is insulin a crutch? No one thinks that. I've been om stimulants for 5 years and I'm grateful they're around.
May I ask you how old you are and what stimulate you are on? I know everyone reacts differently due to neurophysiology yet also I just got diagnose and I am kinda scared of being put on stimulants. Also have you had any bad side effects even though it’s helped you a lot.
@@DiamondEyez456 Take this with a grain of salt before you bounce these off your care provider first. I'm 35, and I've taken Adderall XR 30mg for 5 years now. The side-effect profile for me was in the beginning experiencing some sleep and appetite disturbances. If I have any sides now, I'm not noticing them enough for it to be a big deal. The basic gist on getting the best out of stimulants is to: (1); work with a good psychiatrist to find your minimum effective dose. That dosing may go up or down, but you want the dosing to be as low as possible. Bodyweight and metabolism does not affect what your effective dose is. If you start off on 40mg and you think it's going well, try a period on 30mg, and then 20mg, and so on, (2); Take dopamine precursors l-tyrosine and inositol (I take 500mg each) before bed. That mitigates the depletion of neurochemical supplies, (3); you don't have to take it everyday. if you have a lazy day, it's totally fine to take a day off, (4); you consider cycling off stims 1-2 times a year to mitigate tolerance. My cycle-off period is two weeks: 1 week to taper down, 1 week with no meds in my system. I get empty caps where I split my 30mg's down to 15's, I take those for 4 days, then I split the 15's down to 7.5's and take those for 3 days. I take 0mg for another 7 days and then immediately resume the 30's after. One more thought. A lot of people while on stims can experience something where they think they're bumping up against tolerance, but it's really something else going wrong, like sleep disturbances, poor nutrition... all the things that can contribute to poor focus and impulse control. Stimulants are not magical pills; you still need to take care of yourself for them to perform their best. If you're working on 2 hours of sleep, Adderall will do diddly squat for you. Something to keep in mind.
I’m also in a situation where I’m debating taking stimulants. I would be very interested in if you think it would be ok to take them number one if you have adhd, but are already doing ok and number two if you don’t but they’d still improve your outcome.
I get what destiny is saying. He doesnt wanna give away his agency by accepting he is less able than a normal individual. This talk is very enlightening, thanks to the both of yall. Gave me some food for thought
For anyone that needs to hear this, I will confirm Dr. K's point about meditation and the dissolution of desires in my own experiences. I meditated regularly (30-60 minutes daily) for about 2 years, and my desire to play videogames almost completely disappeared. I still play, but I can easily go weeks or even months without playing, instead of playing every day. And the effect has persisted for atleast 3 years now. A consistent meditation practice does require time and decidication, but if you can afford those things, it's completely worth it in my opinion.
May I ask what kind of meditation you do? Do you basically just "sit down & try to not think" or something more specific? (I've done meditations daily for about 3 weeks earlier this year & NEED to get back to it:)
@DailyTechNews.mp4 Essentially yes. I practice informally, so unfortunately I don't have much knowledge of the different types of meditation and some of the terminology. But I essentially sit in a quiet room, close my eyes, and try to not allow my mind to wander or think about things (or correct it if it does). Focusing on one thing specifically, like the breath, or following along a guided meditation, may help with this. I will say, though, that quieting the mind was (and still is) difficult, and I had to practice regularly for several months before I noticed any benefits.
@@efbland1 Thanks for replying and that's exactly what I did as well; either a guided meditation with Echkart Tolle or trying to quiet the mind while helping myself by focosing on my breath. Will get back into it ✌️
Great advice and I believe it helps, but the problem is still: “I should just do the thing” and we have a hard time doing the thing. Regular meditation, healthy diet, exercise routine, all of those things help, but for most of us with ADHD, we can stick to a routine for a days, weeks, maybe months and then suddenly it’s gone and we can’t do the thing anymore. We need to be able to do the thing to be able to do the thing!!! It’s maddening.
This was a great resource for someone who's trying to navigate this whole ADHD realm. I got diagnosed in high school, went from failing out of my freshman high school geometry class to fast forward about 9 years, undergrad in neuroscience, all-American athlete, and a masters on top of that, aiming for med school in the future. Throughout this process though I was lowering my dose of Adderall progressively, I was initially on 20, 15, 10 and then 5, by the time I was in my masters. The time in my life I was most successful I feel was when I was on lower doses. This made me wonder if I was "out growing" the ADHD, as I learned better study and copping strategies. So now I'm not taking the meds at all, as I study for the MCAT, and It's more of a struggle than I originally anticipated, but I'm figuring it out. I'm kind of at a cross rods right now as to what I should do? On one hand the meds definitely make life easier, but on the other hand I think my ADHD is quite mild, so I feel given enough time and proper psychotherapy I could figure it out I guess? I wanted the conversation to be longer on the psychotherapy dimension.
@@Fandomsoffffffffffffff sure bruv. So I took the MCAT in March and managed to score in the 98th percentile, opened up a lot of doors for me. Actually planning on applying to Dr. Ks Alma mater Harvard. After that I asked out this girl from work and we’ve been in a good relationship as of now. Lastly started the process of applying to med school like a week ago all very exciting stuff. As for the adhd management stuff my philosophy on the subject is like this. ADHD meds are like blood pressure medication. When you first put someone on bp meds the goal is to prevent organ and heart damage, while they work on lifestyle and dietary changes to lower the bp naturally so they can come off medication if they so choose. Adhd meds for me are much the same, I’m basically taking them the minimum amount I can to not cause any damage to my life cause by adhd, like not studying or working on my app, while I work on the lifestyle stuff. As for lifestyle stuff I’m doing to help me improve focus and executive function naturally I have 4 things I’m doing. First is meditation for about 15 minutes every day, second is reading a book for 20-30 minutes 5 days a week, and taking l-theanine on non- medicine days for a boost. Lastly I’m trying Neurofeed back rn which train/ your brain to display optimal brain waves in hopes of improving attention. I’m not doing at home neurofeedback, I’m going through a clinic as I believe that will help me see the best results. I’m like 7 sessions in and I notice some differences, but you’ll have to wait like 2-3 more months for a comprehensive review on that. It’s very expensive, so don’t jump in unless you have some extra cash. I still have hope I’ll be able to get off the meds completely, it’s just gonna take some time. All good things do tho
I don’t understand why you would want to quit completely? Ideally you’d want to optimize improving yourself and what you get out of your medication. I went and worked on things you also described, and it of course improves my current situation. But if you lower your dose, aren’t you-in a way, going back to step 1? Also, I’ve found that no amount of health and lifestyle changes makes me, say, want to do my laundry or the dishes until the very last minute. Unless I became both enlightened and superhuman, no matter what I’d do, doing certain tasks would be unnecessarily difficult. Truly, what is the point of forcing yourself to struggle? You could have astronomically improved your studying habits and kept taking Adderall at the same time-instead of having to spend 4 hours a day studying for the MCAT, you could have spend 3. That’s an extra hour that, if used responsibly, you could have added to your sleep, exercise, or hanging out with friends. If you truly have ADHD, there’s a limit to how much you can optimize, because your brain is wired and/or chemically different. No matter what, certain things will always be harder. You’re struggling for what, and for whom? Yes, now you can tell yourself you don’t depend on the medication, but you could still have trained yourself to that point and not have to go through so much pain. Time is a limited resource, and time spent dealing with ADHD symptoms that normal people don’t experience is time wasted off your life that you will never get back, especially now that you’re in your 20s. What are you really getting on return? What keeps you from still getting it, while also keeping the benefits?
a lot of people will go as far as saying that always telling the truth is basically impossible and that there's no point in even trying. But just because i opt to always tell the truth doesn't mean i go around pointing out everyones flaws and speak every thought in my head. You aren't obligated to answer every question asked to you, you aren't obligated to tell people every thought in your head. Just don't lie about those things. If someone asks me a question that I would be tempted to lie about, the answer is always "I'd rather not answer", and most people are respectful of that.
@@isaarunarom7830yes I’ve watched the one from a few months ago but I didn’t know who dr k was. I knew who destiny was via redpill but not dr k. Since then I have watched more of dr k content more and as I’ve gotten to know him better I was wanting another conversation considering destiny is personally affected by adhd and is particularly articulate and thoughtful
Been waiting for this convo ever since I saw Destiny have a meltdown (not really lol but it's a dysphemism) over whether he should take stimulants or not, receiving so many conflicting opinions. Two great minds!
@@kingasif9265 a couple weeks ago on stream, basically a bunch of people started joining the call after he talked about getting diagnosed, and everyone was giving different opinions and arguing. At the end he literally said fuck it this is overwhelming, I'm just gonna message Dr. K and talk it out. So I knew this stream was coming haha
Can confirm that being sober, getting good sleep, meditating, and keeping a clean living space have helped me in so many ways for my questionably self-diagnosed ADHD. What's difficult for me is that my roommate is essentially who I used to be, the disorganized degenerate gamer, and I am fighting the urge to "fix" him
dont try to fix them, offer your perspective of how these things impacted you and ask how they feel about what they're doing and if it would improve their life to change it. i wouldnt "try to fix them" i would ask them to see if they think they should fix themselves
I agree. When I'm on top of what I call the pillars of mental health: my sleep, diet, exercise, and living space, I feel freer and less encumbered by lazy and procrastination. But should one of those pillars fall by the wayside, the others fall as well. And the more poorly my pillars of mental health are, the harder it is to get back on track and more my energy is zapped.
I am one week off my meds and I’ve lost 300$, my house is a mess, I’m not sleeping well because I can’t stop scrolling, and I am constantly looking for things that are right in front of me.
19:00 : the reason your audio devices weren't working, is probably because discord was set to default device. but in windows you changed the output device, (or plugged a new device in which auto changed it) which changes the discord to match. to fix always set your audio devices manually in discord, to the same ones that are set in OBS. and in windows disable devices you do not use. i know its easier to put on default, and leave it, but it causes unexpected and hard to diagnose issues like this all the time if you disable all unused devices, the menu of devices in discord gets a lot smaller and its easier to remember the one you need
I usually watch on 1.5 speed thanks to adderall but destiny is approaching maximum brain limits with his insane caffeine adderall combo and I’m gonna have to drop down to 1.25 speed for this one
I love that Dr K pauses to think, I think those moments are super useful to sit with ideas and move the conversation forward efficiently rather than just filling gaps of silence just for social fluidity.
I found this INCREDIBLY helpful. I'd previously found Destiny to be quite annoying, way he seemed so disrespectful to be gaming when participating in group discussions or debates. I'd seen him on Lex Fridman and that was better, since he wasn't gaming during it. But this is a completely different person. Engaged. Focused. Interacting with someone instead of seemingly lost to distractions. His descriptions around his inner struggles with motivation and medication ring so true for me, as i've struggled with this for decades. Fantastic discussion - thanks to both of you.
ADHD meds are like glasses. Really helps you see but if youre semifunctional you're not necessarily as bad off as you could be. Despite certain setbacks I'm glad for the life I experienced before medication. Its a big part of who Ive become.
That impulse behavior made a lot of sense. Now i understand how i just wasn't really aware of what i was doing. Cookie jar "suddenly" being empty or things just being in a different place, than i remember.
This is great. I got diagnosed with ADHD about 2 weeks ago and see so many similarities in behavior with what Destiny described. I've been taking methylphenidate for almost 2 weeks and on the first day I also felt like I could do anything anytime I want at any time but that feeling faded and I think it's because I built up a tolerance. I have to up the dose once every week so maybe it gets better soon but we will see. Still hoping that it can help me get my shit together.
Honestly, it's such a simple intervention, but the days I charge my phone in another room instead of next to my bed are 10x in quality, focus, and productivity.
i'm feeling far too seen in this stream... recently diagnosed at 35! i have so much regret that i was able to brute force the effects of ADHD that i managed to fall under the radar.
This is an alternative way to look at it, the “brute forcing” will have built a ton of character and skills you would have never gotten otherwise and now you have those things for life. you won’t see them but they’ll be there and it’s possible your a better person because of the struggle than if you never went though it in the first place. It’s just a positive way of looking at that and it could be very true.
@@Jay-vt1mw thats actually how i was able to reconcile a lot of my regrets. Now that i can function fairly well, i am able to make peace with it all. And at the end of the day just having the diagnosis is able to put a lot of stuff into perspective. But thank you for the kind words
Same at 44. I can't believe all the signs were missed through tons of treatment. We went through the DSM and I had 8/9........and still, I was the one who brought up ADHD.
I didn’t know I needed this talk so much. I struggle a lot with my pursuit for perfection and I didn’t connect the dots to my upbringing judgments. It opened my eyes to a lot of struggles I’m currently in
Awesome conversation. Totally understand what Destiny is thinking. Totally relate to thoughts he’s having since diagnosis and pharmacological treatment. I find it helpful to remind myself that I’m on medication now and that is WHY I HAVE THE MENTAL SPACE to angst over whether I should be able to do the things without it. Then I divert my attention to other things The self disappointment and judgment is severe at times. The grief over a life of half finished things due to being undiagnosed for 4 decades, comes in waves. Destiny’s achievements by comparison to my own are amazing for an undiagnosed person. I hope he learns to challenge that harsh reality task master in his head
I totally believe it when Dr K says psychotherapy can be just as effective, BUT there is just no way I would actually have the capacity to actually DO the psychotherapy without my meds
regarding the reason why you should always turn something off and on again, look at it like this. everything it runs down a chain of steps, if something is wrong it is better to just re-roll those steps than just try it. It is like a goodnight rest, sometimes that does wonders
3:20: 🎙 The video is a discussion about stimulant use with Destiny and a psychiatrist. 18:56: 🎧 The video discusses the issue of audio problems on Discord and the solution of turning it off and on again. 29:39: 🎁 The speaker feels a societal obligation to pay forward the gifts and talents they have received, and believes in personal development through prioritizing productive activities over instant gratification. 41:12: 👍 The speaker shares their experience with medication and mental health. 54:25: 🧠 Exposing developing brains to substances of abuse increases the risk of addiction in the future. 1:05:27: 🔍 The speaker discusses their spiritual crisis and the decision to be more aggressive in their career. 1:17:02: 🎮 The speaker discusses the idea of compromise and the importance of understanding the root of one's desire to play video games for extended periods of time. 1:28:52: 📚 The speaker discusses the importance of seeing proof of concept for good habits and finding role models with successful outcomes. 1:40:41: 🎳 Growing up in society can restrict us, but exploring new environments allows us to shed societal expectations and build ourselves. 1:52:32: 🍪 People with ADHD may be more impulsive and prone to overeating, even when not hungry. 2:03:39: ! The difference in how we view our brains compared to other organs in our body when it comes to medication. 2:15:28: 🧠 ADHD medication and psychotherapy both have similar effects in treating ADHD, but medication can prevent more damage and enhance the effectiveness of psychotherapy. 2:28:17: 🌱 Committing to virtues and pursuing improvement requires genuine commitment and the development of cognitive skills, as exemplified by the pursuit of nonviolence and vegetarianism. Recap by Tammy AI
Just finished watching the whole thing and (goes without saying) the depth and insight in this discussion far eclipse what the AI-generated timestamps indicate. Highly recommend a listen, and for someone to better label the timestamps
Please correct me, but it seems that at 2:17:00 Dr. K basically agreed with Destiny's original posit of ADHD meds of being a medical crutch for lack of effort to make habits/ good decisions (roughly paraphrasing Destiny) when Dr. K states that very few cases "really need medication" as long as you have the time and energy for psychotherapy. I'm curious how this is squared with the neurodivergence of an ADHD person's brain. Try harder? Overcome your different physiology? Dr. K seems to track this onto the longevity of benefits from medication lasting months after (signaling perhaps habits being formed or supporting structures put in place) and psychotherapy (unlearning the shame around the condition, and depression, anxiety, etc.) having years of effect afterwards (and also likely more spirituality such as letting go of impulses and sitting with that discomfort) but after all this there remains a brain that is fundamentally wired differently (just now with some supports, and without the buildup of baggage from trauma, with some defenses against an impulse-geared world) that has an increased cognitive load for everyday things. Why continue with that, life on hard-mode, rather than medicate (of course assuming that that is a safe option for the person with ADHD)?
@sofiakangas8796 Do your meds works? Im using medikinet, and i think i need to talk with my Doctor. My concentration is still very sporadic, while studying.
I greatly enjoyed this discussion.. Both of you are well-spoken, direct, and articulate.. A big thank-you to Destiny for sharing and Dr K, it was a pleasure watching you work. I'm going through The Struggle™ (it is real, and there is a whole discovery process where you're learning these revelatory things about yourself) of getting diagnosed and treated for adult ADHD and learning that I might have some monotropism in there as well. I will look at your resources next because I appreciate your guidance.
Dr K. Is blessing to humanity! 💓 I’ve been healing ADHD for years and have gotten so far. There are still struggles. I tried all kinds of stimulants off and on and when I found once that actually worked I took it for a few years and it was extremely helpful. I do not take them any longer because I felt conflicted with my health regime to take a stimulant. I also struggled with a lot of what Destiny does.
oh.... Damn! I am very induividualistic and cannot relate to most mental struggles or cannot understand most viewpoints on the matter but this conversation strikes on point. Very strong experience for me. I cannot stress enough how uniqly compatibile Destiny's experience is with mine. Tkanks doctor K. insightfull conversation.
Dr.K said that he is going to 5 day spiritual retreat at the end of Destiny stream (alone) and he said he lost contact with his previous guru even semi joking they ghosted him I wonder if it's like, fundamentally Guru don't attach themselves to their student life Kinda like the Buddha himself emphasis on don't have attachment to friends? so many thoughts and curious about that. Either way phenomenal stream i learn a lot and am still digesting
@@r1reis I watched the interview with her a bit earlier, she needed to make everyone happy even if she sacrificed herself. Though that interview was 3y ago, maybe now she gaslights children until they give her their chocolate bar and plush ponies. Daily. It's more probable than not having nuclear bombings this century, it's a wild time to live in
I am so under-medicated for my ADHD compared to this guy. I have been having a hard time being believed by multiple psychiatrists. It’s very disheartening reading their notes. I have had to modify my treatment plan way too often outside of their recommendations after I told them what was happening and they wouldn’t budge. Like that my antidepressant dose was too high , that it was essentially working as a depressant at that dose, and canceling out the effect of the stimulant. Their response would then be that I should get on a mood stabilizer… huh? What about reducing the antidepressant and considering adequately treating my ADHD?!!!! Ugh 😑 I am concerned that I am so over-worked mentally due to late diagnosis and treatment, that developing dementia like his mom is a very real possibility. There are so many things I could not do that I really wanted to, over the years. I’m more capable now, so much more, but I’m drowning with what was put in place / set in motion before my diagnosis and treatment.
It's weird that Destiny says a prep school kid doesn't think about armed robbery because they have too many other things in their life. It's not just being super busy, it's that you feel a connection to your community and your family that makes doing all those things seem meaningful. Some kids do drop out and do something entirely different, but it's usually not armed robbery because even if they're psychopaths they still have the idea instilled into them that they are meant for better things. The neuroscientist who discovered he was a psychopath didn't go out and commit armed robbery because he was busy, it was because his family system expected greater things from him and gave him the support to do those things. Destiny doesn't seem to understand how other people think.
Not a fan of Destiny's politics but I liked him a lot in this context. He's a thoughtful guy and I can relate to him on the ADHD thing The speech at the end about the pursuit of virtue levelling up your life in all ways was brilliant. Very well put and it's given me lots to think about
Great discussion. Pro Tip from an ADHD stimulant user to Destiny. You should consider taking magnesium glycinate when you take your meds. It will reduce involnutary muscle activation especially bruxism which is a very common side effect of stimulants especially when you're not well aclimated.
As someone who's been friends with professional stunt people, bodybuilders, and circus performers, it was funny to see Destiny struggle to wrap his head around people strongly identifying with their body 😂🤯😂
"...The citizens must not live mechanic or a mercantile life for such a life is ignoble and inimical to virtue. For leisure is needed both for the development of virtue and for the active participation in politics." - Aristotle, Greek Philosopher
Wish Destiny had articulated his position on the difference between psych meds vs physical meds a bit better. In my opinion psych meds are often used to treat subjective things while physical meds mostly treat objective things. For example I often wonder if ADHD is objectively real rather than just a short hand description of symptoms. Where I never wonder if a staph infection is real. Would have been nice to hear Dr. K's response to that version of the question. Don't get me wrong I think there is definitely a time/place for psych meds but I'm also all to aware of capitalisms tendency to create problems and sell solutions ex. Oxycontin.
I mean if you think about it as a spectrum, no one thinks schizophrenia is not objectively real. Clear cases of it. Slide that scale back and you get things like depression and ADHD
19:40 i noticed alot of issues when plugging a USB2.0 device into a 3.x slot. I guess the quality of the physical 2.0 part of 3.0 ports is lower than that of dedicated 2.0 ports, so 2.0 devices (mostly highspeed USB) can sometimes not work because of that. Also some 2.0 Ports are of lower quality and that can cause issues. Front-USB on a desktop PC with usually cause more trouble than the ports that are sitting directly on the mainboard. Some laptops can have better USB quality on one side. Also keep your USB cables as short as possible and avoid using extension cables. Cables in general also have different quality, which can really have an effect with highspeed USB.
"There's no guy who is just sitting there stopping me from getting out of bed, why can't you just get up and do something instead of being on your phone". I've said this sentence before. So much about this conversation resonated so much.
40:51 I had the exact same experience my junior year of highschool when I was extremely depressed, I never finished a single homework assignment. As soon as it kicked in, I was so calm, content and productive for the entire day and got so much work done. Another girl who took it with us was so hyper saying she felt like she was going at 100%, I ended up avoiding her throughout the entire day b cause she was distracting me from doing my homework lol I often reflect on what my highschool career would have been and where I would be now if someone would have noticed my adhd habits earlier, they’ve only worsen as time went by
Ugh when they say that time wasting scrolling in ned is inefficient I CAN RELATE. I see multiple parallels in how they articulate their experience in this regard.
@@user-qj5yl2yl1q I can tell you've never watched his streams. The difference is super apparent between his behavior pre-meds and his behavior post-meds.
Clinical psychologist specialising in ADHD, who also has ADHD, here. It's such a shame that it's so poorly understood by professionals and laypeople alike. There are so many obvious signs to tip people off. Sadly most of them are not included in the clinical descriptions. Now my ADHD-Dar is pretty strong, but you can tell just by the way Destiny speaks. 5 minutes in my presence as a kid could have saved him a lot of trouble. It's so important to have teachers and health professionals educated in spotting the signs.
I wonder if part of the hesitation to accept that people with ADHD may need outside solutions is influenced by his larger worldview? Like if he accepts that he (pretty much) needs medication to function at a competitive level, then he has to acknowledge that other people who are not living up to their full potential may also be attributed to something other than just "laziness" or a "personal failing." I'm just curious because being an influencer and spreading his ideas seems really important to him. I wonder if that may also mildly contribute to the hesitation to accept the whole medication thing. Wouldn't acknowledging this fact kind of throw a wrench into some of the ideas he's been very vocal about?
@@og8425 That kinda makes me chuckle a little bit. Like, **gasp** you mean to tell me I haven't been in complete control of my life since I as a baby clawed myself out of the womb?! 🤯 DEPRESS 😱 In all seriousness though, I hope you're right. I respect when people have the intellectual integrity to adjust fundamental parts of their worldview in light of new information. It's kinda... [frustrating, distasteful, arrogant, short-sided, ignorant] ...ODD that some people are willing to ignore data until THEY PERSONALLY see or experience something. Only then does it truly become a fact. That's logically bizzare to me, but a lot of people seem to have this mindset 🤔
It seems Steven is having a hard time accepting his limitations as a human/man. It may reinforce a belief within himself that he’s not good enough or broken. This hang up in his mind forces him to overachieve at any cost to overcompensate for the belief. Funny tho the belief itself is the opposite. He is certainly gifted intellectually
I worked to commit myself to be honest as much as possible a long time ago, I think you missed the most painful part which is making the effort to correct something if you lied impulsively or mispoke it's very embarrassing, especially if it's something I said some time ago. It's also hard to draw the line between being truthful and oversharing.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Dr K sipping water and then Destiny sipping Red Bull right after is the perfect microcosm of this conversation
That stimulant helps us
I thought it was a little funny when he said his friend gave him adderall and it was the first time he ever used a stimulant
@@Mutantcy1992 first time other than meth
@@colamity_5000 this was way before meth? and besides he tried mdma before meth too which is also a stimulant, even if it is relatively atypical
@@a.d1775 he never purposely tried meth it was mdma laced with meth. The fanbase jokes about him being a meth user then other people believe it
When Destiny launches his podcast in a month or so, I downright demand regular Dr. K visits. They bounce of each other so well!
Yes!!!
Heck yeah
that one didn't age quite so well
@@rezzor_ why?
in a month or so, surely
Discussion starts at 18:32 ;)
Thank you
A full 7 minutes of technical difficulties. Classic boomer. (Love you Dr. K) :)
Thanks for the time stamp. Dr k throwing his arms up in the air in excitement was a lovely surprise
Thank you 😊
My hero!
Destiny sounds like he’s experiencing a lot of the toxic shame that comes with undiagnosed adult ADHD. Often a childhood of parents telling a child that ‘if they just put in the effort they’d succeed’ often leads to the feeling of guilt and shame when taking stimulants. It’s a feeling of a lack of worth and that you’re using a shortcut.
@@balsaaa why?
@@balsaaa except the part where studies show its an actual brain chemistry disorder related to dopamine.
@@balsaaa ADHD is a real disorder with a list of criteria for diagnosis in the DSM-5. Which a lot of symptoms of ADHD are caused by a low level of dopamine. Ignoring that and instead choosing to listen to your own dumb biases is extremely anti intellectual and ignorant. Especially if there are other disorder in the DSM-5 that you think are real
didnt watch yet but no he doesnt
he very explicitly explained on his stream the other day that its about medication hijacking his personality
It’s changed mine. I noticed he talked fast but for me my fast talking or excessive talking slowed WAY down. Now, I don’t feel like talking much.
This was fantastic. Thank you Destiny for being so vulnerable, I made a lot of notes for my own therapist to talk over because I had so many reactions to this discussion. Probably the most human/relatable I’ve ever seen Destiny on a platform. Thank you both.
It's fascinating that he's obsessed with productivity while his only "product" is wasting other people's lives, many of whom have similar struggles to his son and himself, and he exploits those struggles and weaknesses to get wealthier
Did dr K ever asked him about that? How does Destiny justify this to himself and why is he still engaged in predatory wasting of people's lives and getting crumbs from addicted kids even though he doesn't need their money and didn't need it for a long long time?
@NJ-wb1cz Do you mean because of video games being addicting? Or do you disagree with twitch streaming in general?
@@redeyesb.dragonite8562 I don't really "disagree" with it. He does what he does, and the product he creates goes completely against his own principles. It's kinda like a vegan owning a meat factory. It's just interesting how he reconciles this
@@NJ-wb1cz Can you be more specific and give an example? I'm not sure how you don't disagree with engaging in predatory wasting of people's lives so you can get money you don't need from addicted kids, even if you don't think that's bad I do, so I would like to see an example of it.
What he's describing his school experience as, is exactly how my middle school to university experience looked like. I was both told that I'm at least as smart as everyone else, if not more, but at the same time, it took me 3x the time to finish anything, and I horribly struggled with homework.
Even when it came to depression, medication was a "I've given up" measure. That didn't even last very long, because it made me feel orders of magnitude worse, and I haven't tried a different kind
Dr.K talking with Destiny is the definition of a win-win-win situation for both of them and us.
The pill conversation reminded me of a conversation I had with my neurologist. I have chronic migraines and have since I was young. I just recently got a diagnosis at 40 and I am trying pain management to help mitigate the migraines.
I also had a really hard time with taking my medication until my migraine was really really bad. My neurologist asked me why. What was my reason for struggling? I sat there completely flabbergasted for a few minutes and I couldn’t answer her. I had this assumption that you should only take the medication if the condition is too bad and you’ll like die if you don’t take it. She asked me how would I know I was dying? She also asked me, what I would earn by struggling. Would I earn some sort of medal or badge? I felt absolutely stupid for not realizing I didn’t have to struggle this entire time. I didn’t HAVE TO be in pain. I could take my medication when the signs of the migraine starting happen. My life has changed tremendously ever since this talk. I’m using my medication in the way it was meant to be taken and I have been able to function better without being in pain.
You don’t have to struggle. There’s nothing to gain by struggling needlessly.
Isn’t that a weird thing about humans? I often do this with ibuprofen and cramps, I feel like I have to wait until I can’t take it anymore to take some ibuprofen instead of just taking it at the first sign of pain. And I came across a post a while ago where a LOT of people said they do the same thing or something similar in the vein of waiting a long time to take medicine that would ease symptoms. Something that stuck with me from the comments was that someone said that as a kid they’d do that and then their mom told them something like “don’t you think the person who invented this medicine would be really sad that you won’t let it help you?” I’m trying to get better about it too, and I’m glad you’ve been able to work on it!
@@bibubbletea 💯! I would do the same with my cramps!
I realized recently that I had my pain downplayed or dismissed ever since I was a kid. I even hear some parents do this with their kids now. Their kids will try to communicate that something is wrong or hurts and their parent will snap at them to quit whining. Just suck it up.
I was told when I was young that my headaches couldn’t possibly be THAT bad, or as one doctor told my parents, I was just faking it to get their attention. I learned at a very young age to just try to ignore it. But the next day the headache was worse, I would just have to learn how to tolerate it better. It got to a point where I thought everyone had really bad headaches all the time and I wondered how the hell they could function so well and why was I struggling?
@@calestaiezu214 yeah that sounds like a hard thing to go through :( my mom gets frequent migraines so I feel for you on that front
Of course you shouldn't pop them like Skittles, but my doc also always warns about ongoing pain becoming a chronic issue if you don't treat it.
@@bibubbletea Not to step on someones toes but i think this is the same that happened with covid vaccine. My guess would be that humans in general would rather be fucked up by some external forces than by their own action (and we in general dont see inaction as an action). Since all medications have side effects, i rather be fucked by my illlnes or whatever than take the risk to fuck myself up actively with taking a pill. In our mind, one of them is a choice, the other is not.
Conversation with Destiny starts at 18:40
Man this video hit home from beginning to end. I'm 33 years old and just got diagnosed with ADHD (non hyperactive) and the amount of regret and self shame and judgment I live with is paralyzing. So hard to let go of that feeling.
I'm 38.
Ive been diagnosed for almost 10 years and only recently (2 months ago), gotten the correct medication.
Just keep working on those feelings, it Gets better 😊
Also, look out for that "i gotta do everyThing now, because i dont know when i will have energy again" feels 😂
So ADD
@@ThermalSpace I don't know about America, but ADD doesn't "exist" in Norway anymore, they call it all Adhd. Sorry if that was confusing
@@90thedro youre right, the dsm5 gotten rid of the diagnosis of ADD, now its just ADHD (attention deficiet variant).
I’m 32 and was diagnosed with ADD when I was really young (like somewhere around 11ish). I know it’s all adhd now, and I kinda want to try like a low dose of medication for it. I’m worried to though because I have anxiety and it’s a stimulant. I take an ssri medication for it as well as depression. I also take kind of as more of immediate/emergency need a benzo for a full on panic attack an what not. Idk if they’re compatible but I always wondered if this would help me for reading and focus in general. I know a lot of people reading aren’t doctors but does anybody know much about all of that lol?
I always look forward to these talks between Destiny and Dr K. I love how Destiny is so respectful of him as he knows how intelligent he is. And he is really open and listens very carefully to him. I also feel like Destiny seems to be opening himself up a bit more to the emotional side of himself which is really awesome to see. Can't wait for future convos!!
Just stumbled across this today and as someone who was just diagnosed 2 years ago as an adult and started stimulants 6 months ago, I went through a lot of the same thought process as Destiny. For me, I felt there was a distinction though between "brain altering" medication like stimulants versus other medications because you could take Destiny's throught process and say "I shouldn't take antibiotics or vaccines because it's a shortcut and my body SHOULD be able to fight that infection on it's own". Of course that falls apart for most of us, we get sick, we take the medication. Medications that mess with neurochemistry are scary and have a stigma around them and I think (at least for me) that was the bigger concern that created hesitancy. But I accepted it and find low does stimulants are HUGELY helpful.
Just started listening, I had a very similar experience to Destiny with discovering my ADHD and starting stimulants and "perpetually behind". If you vibe with his story, please look up the term monotropism and seek medical and professional support and engage in the process fully! Pills help, but can't "cure" any underlying struggles.
I discovered after years of stimulants and admitting myself into a partial hospitalization program (PHP) was that I also had undiagnosed OCD and ASD since I was a child and was close to developing OCPD had I not sought additional help after experiencing reoccurring burnout for a decade and a half.
thank you for sharing!
Was your experience daily routine driven?
Oh my god, this Destiny guy talking with Dr K is like watching a video of me and my psychologist, complete with him sipping a red bull. Those questions and fear he has of the medication vs shouldn't he just have self control? is right on point.
I'm just waiting for the date with Destiny.
How about a tryst with destiny?
As someone who also grew up conservative, I can 100% connect with Destiny's hang-up around using a pill as a crutch. But that is a learned attitude, not something descriptive. Is insulin a crutch? No one thinks that. I've been om stimulants for 5 years and I'm grateful they're around.
Great take!
What's wrong with a crutch???
May I ask you how old you are and what stimulate you are on?
I know everyone reacts differently due to neurophysiology yet also I just got diagnose and I am kinda scared of being put on stimulants.
Also have you had any bad side effects even though it’s helped you a lot.
@@DiamondEyez456
Take this with a grain of salt before you bounce these off your care provider first.
I'm 35, and I've taken Adderall XR 30mg for 5 years now. The side-effect profile for me was in the beginning experiencing some sleep and appetite disturbances. If I have any sides now, I'm not noticing them enough for it to be a big deal.
The basic gist on getting the best out of stimulants is to: (1); work with a good psychiatrist to find your minimum effective dose. That dosing may go up or down, but you want the dosing to be as low as possible. Bodyweight and metabolism does not affect what your effective dose is. If you start off on 40mg and you think it's going well, try a period on 30mg, and then 20mg, and so on, (2); Take dopamine precursors l-tyrosine and inositol (I take 500mg each) before bed. That mitigates the depletion of neurochemical supplies, (3); you don't have to take it everyday. if you have a lazy day, it's totally fine to take a day off, (4); you consider cycling off stims 1-2 times a year to mitigate tolerance. My cycle-off period is two weeks: 1 week to taper down, 1 week with no meds in my system. I get empty caps where I split my 30mg's down to 15's, I take those for 4 days, then I split the 15's down to 7.5's and take those for 3 days. I take 0mg for another 7 days and then immediately resume the 30's after.
One more thought. A lot of people while on stims can experience something where they think they're bumping up against tolerance, but it's really something else going wrong, like sleep disturbances, poor nutrition... all the things that can contribute to poor focus and impulse control. Stimulants are not magical pills; you still need to take care of yourself for them to perform their best. If you're working on 2 hours of sleep, Adderall will do diddly squat for you. Something to keep in mind.
I’m also in a situation where I’m debating taking stimulants. I would be very interested in if you think it would be ok to take them number one if you have adhd, but are already doing ok and number two if you don’t but they’d still improve your outcome.
I get what destiny is saying. He doesnt wanna give away his agency by accepting he is less able than a normal individual. This talk is very enlightening, thanks to the both of yall. Gave me some food for thought
For anyone that needs to hear this, I will confirm Dr. K's point about meditation and the dissolution of desires in my own experiences.
I meditated regularly (30-60 minutes daily) for about 2 years, and my desire to play videogames almost completely disappeared.
I still play, but I can easily go weeks or even months without playing, instead of playing every day. And the effect has persisted for atleast 3 years now.
A consistent meditation practice does require time and decidication, but if you can afford those things, it's completely worth it in my opinion.
May I ask what kind of meditation you do? Do you basically just "sit down & try to not think" or something more specific? (I've done meditations daily for about 3 weeks earlier this year & NEED to get back to it:)
@DailyTechNews.mp4
Essentially yes. I practice informally, so unfortunately I don't have much knowledge of the different types of meditation and some of the terminology.
But I essentially sit in a quiet room, close my eyes, and try to not allow my mind to wander or think about things (or correct it if it does). Focusing on one thing specifically, like the breath, or following along a guided meditation, may help with this.
I will say, though, that quieting the mind was (and still is) difficult, and I had to practice regularly for several months before I noticed any benefits.
@@efbland1 Thanks for replying and that's exactly what I did as well; either a guided meditation with Echkart Tolle or trying to quiet the mind while helping myself by focosing on my breath.
Will get back into it ✌️
Better us of time would be playing video games for those 30 to 60 minutes.
Great advice and I believe it helps, but the problem is still: “I should just do the thing” and we have a hard time doing the thing. Regular meditation, healthy diet, exercise routine, all of those things help, but for most of us with ADHD, we can stick to a routine for a days, weeks, maybe months and then suddenly it’s gone and we can’t do the thing anymore. We need to be able to do the thing to be able to do the thing!!! It’s maddening.
This was a great resource for someone who's trying to navigate this whole ADHD realm. I got diagnosed in high school, went from failing out of my freshman high school geometry class to fast forward about 9 years, undergrad in neuroscience, all-American athlete, and a masters on top of that, aiming for med school in the future. Throughout this process though I was lowering my dose of Adderall progressively, I was initially on 20, 15, 10 and then 5, by the time I was in my masters. The time in my life I was most successful I feel was when I was on lower doses. This made me wonder if I was "out growing" the ADHD, as I learned better study and copping strategies. So now I'm not taking the meds at all, as I study for the MCAT, and It's more of a struggle than I originally anticipated, but I'm figuring it out. I'm kind of at a cross rods right now as to what I should do? On one hand the meds definitely make life easier, but on the other hand I think my ADHD is quite mild, so I feel given enough time and proper psychotherapy I could figure it out I guess? I wanted the conversation to be longer on the psychotherapy dimension.
Proud of you bro :) Keep at it ❤️
Hey how’s it going? Mind giving an update?
@@Fandomsoffffffffffffff sure bruv. So I took the MCAT in March and managed to score in the 98th percentile, opened up a lot of doors for me. Actually planning on applying to Dr. Ks Alma mater Harvard. After that I asked out this girl from work and we’ve been in a good relationship as of now. Lastly started the process of applying to med school like a week ago all very exciting stuff.
As for the adhd management stuff my philosophy on the subject is like this. ADHD meds are like blood pressure medication. When you first put someone on bp meds the goal is to prevent organ and heart damage, while they work on lifestyle and dietary changes to lower the bp naturally so they can come off medication if they so choose. Adhd meds for me are much the same, I’m basically taking them the minimum amount I can to not cause any damage to my life cause by adhd, like not studying or working on my app, while I work on the lifestyle stuff. As for lifestyle stuff I’m doing to help me improve focus and executive function naturally I have 4 things I’m doing. First is meditation for about 15 minutes every day, second is reading a book for 20-30 minutes 5 days a week, and taking l-theanine on non- medicine days for a boost. Lastly I’m trying Neurofeed back rn which train/ your brain to display optimal brain waves in hopes of improving attention. I’m not doing at home neurofeedback, I’m going through a clinic as I believe that will help me see the best results. I’m like 7 sessions in and I notice some differences, but you’ll have to wait like 2-3 more months for a comprehensive review on that. It’s very expensive, so don’t jump in unless you have some extra cash. I still have hope I’ll be able to get off the meds completely, it’s just gonna take some time. All good things do tho
I don’t understand why you would want to quit completely? Ideally you’d want to optimize improving yourself and what you get out of your medication. I went and worked on things you also described, and it of course improves my current situation. But if you lower your dose, aren’t you-in a way, going back to step 1? Also, I’ve found that no amount of health and lifestyle changes makes me, say, want to do my laundry or the dishes until the very last minute. Unless I became both enlightened and superhuman, no matter what I’d do, doing certain tasks would be unnecessarily difficult. Truly, what is the point of forcing yourself to struggle? You could have astronomically improved your studying habits and kept taking Adderall at the same time-instead of having to spend 4 hours a day studying for the MCAT, you could have spend 3. That’s an extra hour that, if used responsibly, you could have added to your sleep, exercise, or hanging out with friends. If you truly have ADHD, there’s a limit to how much you can optimize, because your brain is wired and/or chemically different. No matter what, certain things will always be harder. You’re struggling for what, and for whom? Yes, now you can tell yourself you don’t depend on the medication, but you could still have trained yourself to that point and not have to go through so much pain. Time is a limited resource, and time spent dealing with ADHD symptoms that normal people don’t experience is time wasted off your life that you will never get back, especially now that you’re in your 20s. What are you really getting on return? What keeps you from still getting it, while also keeping the benefits?
a lot of people will go as far as saying that always telling the truth is basically impossible and that there's no point in even trying. But just because i opt to always tell the truth doesn't mean i go around pointing out everyones flaws and speak every thought in my head. You aren't obligated to answer every question asked to you, you aren't obligated to tell people every thought in your head. Just don't lie about those things. If someone asks me a question that I would be tempted to lie about, the answer is always "I'd rather not answer", and most people are respectful of that.
Well explained!
You explained destiny right there. Always pointing out others flaws bc he is insecure. He is lying here he's also been on stims
Yes! I’ve been waiting for a Destiny and Dr k discussion!
It's like the 3rd one but me too,
Hoping for a 4th one, Destiny is always very articulated and the mutual respect they have for each other is beautiful to see.
@@isaarunarom7830yes I’ve watched the one from a few months ago but I didn’t know who dr k was. I knew who destiny was via redpill but not dr k. Since then I have watched more of dr k content more and as I’ve gotten to know him better I was wanting another conversation considering destiny is personally affected by adhd and is particularly articulate and thoughtful
They had a couple already
Been waiting for this convo ever since I saw Destiny have a meltdown (not really lol but it's a dysphemism) over whether he should take stimulants or not, receiving so many conflicting opinions. Two great minds!
when did he have a meltdown?
@@kingasif9265 a couple weeks ago on stream, basically a bunch of people started joining the call after he talked about getting diagnosed, and everyone was giving different opinions and arguing. At the end he literally said fuck it this is overwhelming, I'm just gonna message Dr. K and talk it out. So I knew this stream was coming haha
@@kingasif9265 It was a few weeks ago. "Destiny Gets Diagnosed But Refuses Meds. Tries To Debate Himself Out Of Treatment" is the title of that video.
Can confirm that being sober, getting good sleep, meditating, and keeping a clean living space have helped me in so many ways for my questionably self-diagnosed ADHD. What's difficult for me is that my roommate is essentially who I used to be, the disorganized degenerate gamer, and I am fighting the urge to "fix" him
dont try to fix them, offer your perspective of how these things impacted you and ask how they feel about what they're doing and if it would improve their life to change it. i wouldnt "try to fix them" i would ask them to see if they think they should fix themselves
I agree. When I'm on top of what I call the pillars of mental health: my sleep, diet, exercise, and living space, I feel freer and less encumbered by lazy and procrastination. But should one of those pillars fall by the wayside, the others fall as well. And the more poorly my pillars of mental health are, the harder it is to get back on track and more my energy is zapped.
@jzen1455 my living space hasn't been up to par since moving after leaving my original comment and I can confirm, I'm not feeling my best anymore
An amazing conversation. Was nice to hear a great perspective on the nature of ambition and human drive.
I am one week off my meds and I’ve lost 300$, my house is a mess, I’m not sleeping well because I can’t stop scrolling, and I am constantly looking for things that are right in front of me.
Sounds like your problem might be beyond adhd
@@baki9191 she just described classic adhd symptoms, do you know that adhd can be very severe?
How are you doing? Hangin in there?
Two of my fav streamers collaborating. Pog
19:00 : the reason your audio devices weren't working, is probably because discord was set to default device.
but in windows you changed the output device, (or plugged a new device in which auto changed it)
which changes the discord to match.
to fix always set your audio devices manually in discord, to the same ones that are set in OBS.
and in windows disable devices you do not use.
i know its easier to put on default, and leave it, but it causes unexpected and hard to diagnose issues like this all the time
if you disable all unused devices, the menu of devices in discord gets a lot smaller and its easier to remember the one you need
something to do with discord output device not getting reliably synchronized with the windows one,
Did you just take your ADHD meds? Haha
Destiny hopped up on adderall and red bull is quite a sight to see. His jaw is gonna overheat in the debate with Shapiro.
he might be focusing better and possibly performing better in debates, but he can only debate as well as someone who has a girls name
@@otakugamer616Being a girl is worse than just having a girl's name I guess
@@otakugamer616 it's a meme in destiny's community btw.
I usually watch on 1.5 speed thanks to adderall but destiny is approaching maximum brain limits with his insane caffeine adderall combo and I’m gonna have to drop down to 1.25 speed for this one
Great discussion, it was very insightful
prewatcher?
@@stktenioudakis This is a VOD of a livestream
I love that Dr K pauses to think, I think those moments are super useful to sit with ideas and move the conversation forward efficiently rather than just filling gaps of silence just for social fluidity.
awesome convo 👍 always love your discussions together, I think this is the best one yet
I found this INCREDIBLY helpful. I'd previously found Destiny to be quite annoying, way he seemed so disrespectful to be gaming when participating in group discussions or debates. I'd seen him on Lex Fridman and that was better, since he wasn't gaming during it. But this is a completely different person. Engaged. Focused. Interacting with someone instead of seemingly lost to distractions.
His descriptions around his inner struggles with motivation and medication ring so true for me, as i've struggled with this for decades.
Fantastic discussion - thanks to both of you.
ADHD meds are like glasses. Really helps you see but if youre semifunctional you're not necessarily as bad off as you could be. Despite certain setbacks I'm glad for the life I experienced before medication. Its a big part of who Ive become.
Stims have similar if not identical effect on normies too
@@capitalist4life ehhh, adhd stim are more effective at correcting deficits than "enhancing performance" in neurotypicals
That impulse behavior made a lot of sense. Now i understand how i just wasn't really aware of what i was doing. Cookie jar "suddenly" being empty or things just being in a different place, than i remember.
Awesome convo. I don't think I have ADHD, but I struggle with discipline and this is useful.
This is great. I got diagnosed with ADHD about 2 weeks ago and see so many similarities in behavior with what Destiny described. I've been taking methylphenidate for almost 2 weeks and on the first day I also felt like I could do anything anytime I want at any time but that feeling faded and I think it's because I built up a tolerance. I have to up the dose once every week so maybe it gets better soon but we will see.
Still hoping that it can help me get my shit together.
Honestly, it's such a simple intervention, but the days I charge my phone in another room instead of next to my bed are 10x in quality, focus, and productivity.
i'm feeling far too seen in this stream... recently diagnosed at 35! i have so much regret that i was able to brute force the effects of ADHD that i managed to fall under the radar.
This is an alternative way to look at it, the “brute forcing” will have built a ton of character and skills you would have never gotten otherwise and now you have those things for life.
you won’t see them but they’ll be there and it’s possible your a better person because of the struggle than if you never went though it in the first place.
It’s just a positive way of looking at that and it could be very true.
@@Jay-vt1mw thats actually how i was able to reconcile a lot of my regrets. Now that i can function fairly well, i am able to make peace with it all. And at the end of the day just having the diagnosis is able to put a lot of stuff into perspective. But thank you for the kind words
Same at 44. I can't believe all the signs were missed through tons of treatment. We went through the DSM and I had 8/9........and still, I was the one who brought up ADHD.
At an hour in when Dr. K is getting deep with Destiny, Destiny looks so 🥺 which isn't something u see very often
I didn’t know I needed this talk so much. I struggle a lot with my pursuit for perfection and I didn’t connect the dots to my upbringing judgments. It opened my eyes to a lot of struggles I’m currently in
Love these types of videos, thanks Steven for being on
Awesome conversation. Totally understand what Destiny is thinking. Totally relate to thoughts he’s having since diagnosis and pharmacological treatment. I find it helpful to remind myself that I’m on medication now and that is WHY I HAVE THE MENTAL SPACE to angst over whether I should be able to do the things without it. Then I divert my attention to other things
The self disappointment and judgment is severe at times. The grief over a life of half finished things due to being undiagnosed for 4 decades, comes in waves. Destiny’s achievements by comparison to my own are amazing for an undiagnosed person. I hope he learns to challenge that harsh reality task master in his head
I totally believe it when Dr K says psychotherapy can be just as effective, BUT there is just no way I would actually have the capacity to actually DO the psychotherapy without my meds
regarding the reason why you should always turn something off and on again, look at it like this. everything it runs down a chain of steps, if something is wrong it is better to just re-roll those steps than just try it. It is like a goodnight rest, sometimes that does wonders
Yesssss Destiny-Dr.K content is god tier
3:20: 🎙 The video is a discussion about stimulant use with Destiny and a psychiatrist.
18:56: 🎧 The video discusses the issue of audio problems on Discord and the solution of turning it off and on again.
29:39: 🎁 The speaker feels a societal obligation to pay forward the gifts and talents they have received, and believes in personal development through prioritizing productive activities over instant gratification.
41:12: 👍 The speaker shares their experience with medication and mental health.
54:25: 🧠 Exposing developing brains to substances of abuse increases the risk of addiction in the future.
1:05:27: 🔍 The speaker discusses their spiritual crisis and the decision to be more aggressive in their career.
1:17:02: 🎮 The speaker discusses the idea of compromise and the importance of understanding the root of one's desire to play video games for extended periods of time.
1:28:52: 📚 The speaker discusses the importance of seeing proof of concept for good habits and finding role models with successful outcomes.
1:40:41: 🎳 Growing up in society can restrict us, but exploring new environments allows us to shed societal expectations and build ourselves.
1:52:32: 🍪 People with ADHD may be more impulsive and prone to overeating, even when not hungry.
2:03:39: ! The difference in how we view our brains compared to other organs in our body when it comes to medication.
2:15:28: 🧠 ADHD medication and psychotherapy both have similar effects in treating ADHD, but medication can prevent more damage and enhance the effectiveness of psychotherapy.
2:28:17: 🌱 Committing to virtues and pursuing improvement requires genuine commitment and the development of cognitive skills, as exemplified by the pursuit of nonviolence and vegetarianism.
Recap by Tammy AI
Just finished watching the whole thing and (goes without saying) the depth and insight in this discussion far eclipse what the AI-generated timestamps indicate. Highly recommend a listen, and for someone to better label the timestamps
My word, this is the most relatable thing I have heard in I don’t know how long. Thank you. 🙏🏻
Please correct me, but it seems that at 2:17:00 Dr. K basically agreed with Destiny's original posit of ADHD meds of being a medical crutch for lack of effort to make habits/ good decisions (roughly paraphrasing Destiny) when Dr. K states that very few cases "really need medication" as long as you have the time and energy for psychotherapy.
I'm curious how this is squared with the neurodivergence of an ADHD person's brain. Try harder? Overcome your different physiology? Dr. K seems to track this onto the longevity of benefits from medication lasting months after (signaling perhaps habits being formed or supporting structures put in place) and psychotherapy (unlearning the shame around the condition, and depression, anxiety, etc.) having years of effect afterwards (and also likely more spirituality such as letting go of impulses and sitting with that discomfort) but after all this there remains a brain that is fundamentally wired differently (just now with some supports, and without the buildup of baggage from trauma, with some defenses against an impulse-geared world) that has an increased cognitive load for everyday things.
Why continue with that, life on hard-mode, rather than medicate (of course assuming that that is a safe option for the person with ADHD)?
@sofiakangas8796 Do your meds works? Im using medikinet, and i think i need to talk with my Doctor. My concentration is still very sporadic, while studying.
I greatly enjoyed this discussion.. Both of you are well-spoken, direct, and articulate.. A big thank-you to Destiny for sharing and Dr K, it was a pleasure watching you work. I'm going through The Struggle™ (it is real, and there is a whole discovery process where you're learning these revelatory things about yourself) of getting diagnosed and treated for adult ADHD and learning that I might have some monotropism in there as well. I will look at your resources next because I appreciate your guidance.
Dr K. Is blessing to humanity! 💓 I’ve been healing ADHD for years and have gotten so far. There are still struggles. I tried all kinds of stimulants off and on and when I found once that actually worked I took it for a few years and it was extremely helpful. I do not take them any longer because I felt conflicted with my health regime to take a stimulant. I also struggled with a lot of what Destiny does.
oh.... Damn! I am very induividualistic and cannot relate to most mental struggles or cannot understand most viewpoints on the matter but this conversation strikes on point. Very strong experience for me. I cannot stress enough how uniqly compatibile Destiny's experience is with mine. Tkanks doctor K. insightfull conversation.
thanks guyz that was awesome.. fng ADHD .. too complex..
33:30, feeling ashamed for wasting time. I resonate w/ this
Dr.K said that he is going to 5 day spiritual retreat at the end of Destiny stream (alone) and he said he lost contact with his previous guru even semi joking they ghosted him
I wonder if it's like, fundamentally Guru don't attach themselves to their student life
Kinda like the Buddha himself emphasis on don't have attachment to friends? so many thoughts and curious about that. Either way phenomenal stream i learn a lot and am still digesting
55:06 I'd like to read that literature, please share a link, I have a creeping suspicion about methodologies that I'd like to look into further.
Great discussion Dr. K, thanks!
21:52 - 21:57
"I'm getting the sense you're juggling different kinds of balls...than you're use to...yeah"
LMAO
"- How much do you owe this world?
- As much as I can give?"
I can see why they're together with Melina
can you elaborate?
@@r1reis I watched the interview with her a bit earlier, she needed to make everyone happy even if she sacrificed herself. Though that interview was 3y ago, maybe now she gaslights children until they give her their chocolate bar and plush ponies. Daily. It's more probable than not having nuclear bombings this century, it's a wild time to live in
As an IT professional, turning it off then back on again is usually the fastest route to a resolution ;)
44:31 thats by far the longest ive seen dr k think
I've been waiting for this ever since Destiny started talking about it. Just now watching and I'm so excited.
Thanks!
welcome
Ive never seen someone body steven in a debate even when he had disagreements in some parts, this Dr. K guy might be on to something
1:39:04 that last statement was so strong i cried
My understanding is that the reason cold exposure is a good protocol is that you do not get used to it. Cold is a pretty direct stimulus.
I got used to it. After a year
@@whateverimake9350 that speaks for itself
You do get used to it, but it does not become easy. Thermal layer be damned.
@@xaby996 doesn't moving just break the thermal layer?
Ok im layer i got used to cold water shower. Not ice bath.
I am so under-medicated for my ADHD compared to this guy. I have been having a hard time being believed by multiple psychiatrists. It’s very disheartening reading their notes. I have had to modify my treatment plan way too often outside of their recommendations after I told them what was happening and they wouldn’t budge. Like that my antidepressant dose was too high , that it was essentially working as a depressant at that dose, and canceling out the effect of the stimulant. Their response would then be that I should get on a mood stabilizer… huh? What about reducing the antidepressant and considering adequately treating my ADHD?!!!! Ugh 😑
I am concerned that I am so over-worked mentally due to late diagnosis and treatment, that developing dementia like his mom is a very real possibility.
There are so many things I could not do that I really wanted to, over the years. I’m more capable now, so much more, but I’m drowning with what was put in place / set in motion before my diagnosis and treatment.
Ive had this same issue with doctors for the last 10 years. I wish I had words of wisdom. Just know youre not alone ❤
It's weird that Destiny says a prep school kid doesn't think about armed robbery because they have too many other things in their life. It's not just being super busy, it's that you feel a connection to your community and your family that makes doing all those things seem meaningful. Some kids do drop out and do something entirely different, but it's usually not armed robbery because even if they're psychopaths they still have the idea instilled into them that they are meant for better things. The neuroscientist who discovered he was a psychopath didn't go out and commit armed robbery because he was busy, it was because his family system expected greater things from him and gave him the support to do those things. Destiny doesn't seem to understand how other people think.
Does anyone know who made/makes the flute music in the beginning? I need more!!!
loved this one, ty dr k and destiny
Not a fan of Destiny's politics but I liked him a lot in this context. He's a thoughtful guy and I can relate to him on the ADHD thing
The speech at the end about the pursuit of virtue levelling up your life in all ways was brilliant. Very well put and it's given me lots to think about
This was a great stream and really insightful. Thank you destiny and Dr K
Great discussion. Pro Tip from an ADHD stimulant user to Destiny. You should consider taking magnesium glycinate when you take your meds. It will reduce involnutary muscle activation especially bruxism which is a very common side effect of stimulants especially when you're not well aclimated.
1:38:38 thank you Dr. K for turning towards all of us degenrates on Twitch ❤
As someone who's been friends with professional stunt people, bodybuilders, and circus performers, it was funny to see Destiny struggle to wrap his head around people strongly identifying with their body 😂🤯😂
Very good introductory conversation.
Learned a lot about myself tbh
Incredible conversation.
“Just wanted to share one more thing before we go”
Destiny: “yeah anything sure!”
Dr K: “your wife”
🔥 😎
"...The citizens must not live mechanic or a mercantile life for such a life is ignoble and inimical to virtue. For leisure is needed both for the development of virtue and for the active participation in politics." - Aristotle, Greek Philosopher
It's kind of incredible how fast Destiny talks, it's like I put the video on 1.25 speed but thats just how fast he talks
Wish Destiny had articulated his position on the difference between psych meds vs physical meds a bit better. In my opinion psych meds are often used to treat subjective things while physical meds mostly treat objective things. For example I often wonder if ADHD is objectively real rather than just a short hand description of symptoms. Where I never wonder if a staph infection is real. Would have been nice to hear Dr. K's response to that version of the question. Don't get me wrong I think there is definitely a time/place for psych meds but I'm also all to aware of capitalisms tendency to create problems and sell solutions ex. Oxycontin.
I mean if you think about it as a spectrum, no one thinks schizophrenia is not objectively real. Clear cases of it. Slide that scale back and you get things like depression and ADHD
I am jealous of Dr K. Hairline
Dr. K pls god convince this man he needs therapy, cuz he always copes and says he’s fine
19:40 i noticed alot of issues when plugging a USB2.0 device into a 3.x slot. I guess the quality of the physical 2.0 part of 3.0 ports is lower than that of dedicated 2.0 ports, so 2.0 devices (mostly highspeed USB) can sometimes not work because of that. Also some 2.0 Ports are of lower quality and that can cause issues. Front-USB on a desktop PC with usually cause more trouble than the ports that are sitting directly on the mainboard. Some laptops can have better USB quality on one side. Also keep your USB cables as short as possible and avoid using extension cables. Cables in general also have different quality, which can really have an effect with highspeed USB.
Stop taking drugs
@@user-qj5yl2yl1q im an electrical engineering technician
, no drugs involved (well, except coffee)
41:30 😂 i’m crying. this is how i always felt about meds
"There's no guy who is just sitting there stopping me from getting out of bed, why can't you just get up and do something instead of being on your phone".
I've said this sentence before. So much about this conversation resonated so much.
Technical difficulties end at 18:40
"Beyond ideas of wrong-doing and right-doing, there is a field. I'll be meeting you there"
the talk with destiny was great but especially glad i watched the part after he left
1:29:00 One way I worked reading into my life was every time on the toilet, read a couple pages of a book rather then phone scrolling.
Good shit
40:51 I had the exact same experience my junior year of highschool when I was extremely depressed, I never finished a single homework assignment. As soon as it kicked in, I was so calm, content and productive for the entire day and got so much work done. Another girl who took it with us was so hyper saying she felt like she was going at 100%, I ended up avoiding her throughout the entire day b cause she was distracting me from doing my homework lol I often reflect on what my highschool career would have been and where I would be now if someone would have noticed my adhd habits earlier, they’ve only worsen as time went by
Ugh when they say that time wasting scrolling in ned is inefficient I CAN RELATE. I see multiple parallels in how they articulate their experience in this regard.
Just listening to the way Destiny talks makes me amazed that it never occurred to him he was ADHD. I mean, didn't any of his friends suggest it?
He was always taking addy before he pretending like he doesnt
@@user-qj5yl2yl1q I can tell you've never watched his streams. The difference is super apparent between his behavior pre-meds and his behavior post-meds.
Thank you Dr. K for helping this stressed lady cope with her problems
Redbull and Addrall... the men is locked in...
Clinical psychologist specialising in ADHD, who also has ADHD, here.
It's such a shame that it's so poorly understood by professionals and laypeople alike. There are so many obvious signs to tip people off.
Sadly most of them are not included in the clinical descriptions.
Now my ADHD-Dar is pretty strong, but you can tell just by the way Destiny speaks.
5 minutes in my presence as a kid could have saved him a lot of trouble. It's so important to have teachers and health professionals educated in spotting the signs.
I wonder if part of the hesitation to accept that people with ADHD may need outside solutions is influenced by his larger worldview? Like if he accepts that he (pretty much) needs medication to function at a competitive level, then he has to acknowledge that other people who are not living up to their full potential may also be attributed to something other than just "laziness" or a "personal failing."
I'm just curious because being an influencer and spreading his ideas seems really important to him. I wonder if that may also mildly contribute to the hesitation to accept the whole medication thing. Wouldn't acknowledging this fact kind of throw a wrench into some of the ideas he's been very vocal about?
@@og8425 That kinda makes me chuckle a little bit. Like, **gasp** you mean to tell me I haven't been in complete control of my life since I as a baby clawed myself out of the womb?! 🤯 DEPRESS 😱
In all seriousness though, I hope you're right. I respect when people have the intellectual integrity to adjust fundamental parts of their worldview in light of new information.
It's kinda... [frustrating, distasteful, arrogant, short-sided, ignorant] ...ODD that some people are willing to ignore data until THEY PERSONALLY see or experience something. Only then does it truly become a fact. That's logically bizzare to me, but a lot of people seem to have this mindset 🤔
It seems Steven is having a hard time accepting his limitations as a human/man. It may reinforce a belief within himself that he’s not good enough or broken. This hang up in his mind forces him to overachieve at any cost to overcompensate for the belief. Funny tho the belief itself is the opposite. He is certainly gifted intellectually
What a great show ❤ thank you dr k
I worked to commit myself to be honest as much as possible a long time ago, I think you missed the most painful part which is making the effort to correct something if you lied impulsively or mispoke it's very embarrassing, especially if it's something I said some time ago. It's also hard to draw the line between being truthful and oversharing.