Double Bass: Acoustic vs. Trigger
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2017
- How To Trigger Your Bass Drum: • How To Trigger Your Ba...
Wanja [Nechtan] Gröger - Drum School: www.wanjanechtangroeger.com/b...
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In this video I talk about the differences, advantages and disadvantages of triggering your bass drum.
Differences between acoustic and trigger.
I also show some examples to demonstrate the differences.
Double Bass: Acoustic vs. Trigger.
Enjoy!
"Drum Covers" Playlist: • Drum Covers
"Tutorials" Playlist: • Strange Blast Beat Tec...
My Double Bass Pedal settings: • My Double Bass Pedal S...
How To Trigger Your Bass Drum: • How To Trigger Your Ba...
Double Bass Technique Tutorial: • Strange Double Bass Fo...
Coordination Exercises Tutorial (Extreme Metal Drumming): • The BEST Coordination ...
Blast Beat Beginner Tutorial: • How To Start Playing B...
Blast Beat Technique Tutorial: • Strange Blast Beat Tec...
Double Stroke Fill In Tutorial: • Insane Double Stroke F...
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Cable: www.amazon.com/Ugreen-Premium... (The other cable comes with the trigger.)
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Double Bass: Acoustic vs. Trigger
What do you prefer?
Wanja [Nechtan] Gröger - Drum School: www.wanjanechtangroeger.com/bundles/nds
#nechtan
Wanja [Nechtan] Gröger i like the trigger
Acoustic is actually better.
Acoustic all the way
I prefer the trigger
Triggered with less attack is what I do!
To me, triggers sound like call of duty hit markers.
True, but look up the sample that Chris Adler uses, sounds like a Kanon 👌🏻
you choose the sound the trigger makes tho
Fuck now I can’t unhear it
@Phillip A my words, as I said, like canons, boomy and huge 👌🏻
@@alyxl4mb904 😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
your technique is a must learn
^^^
ua-cam.com/video/tNg_9b8FBhA/v-deo.html
I think the best thing to do is 50% acoustic and 50% triggered sound in the the live mix
Or use 100% triggered sound with a sample that matches the rest of the kit.
matenorth sall Yeah but the mix of the real girth of the actual kit mixed in with the sample slays. Vinnie Paul always had a great live kick sound with the mix.
There are velocity curves to set up when triggering.If you want to have a full dynamic range,it can be easily done.You can do anything with the triggers.There is a lot of misunderstanding around them.
Cut the shit, you're creating the misunderstanding. We're not talking about the the linear dynamics.
Caleb don't be jealous because you don't have the endurance to play metal, anyway is already plural, you don't have to say anyways.
What about mixing the two? I find it the most appealing.... Sometimes the trigger sound is too harsh or flat when i listen to some gigs and would prefer some more "body" to it.
vaderized That's how you get the best sound. Use mics for your main sound and add the trigger a little bit to get the consistency and attack in the weak parts.
Yeah, I know about that. I like it the most myself though I haven't tried it yet myself. I'd like to know if he has tried and what he thinks about it.
PLease: What kind of drum sound do you like then: rap? pop? There are NO drums in there... it's all samples.
Now, get some decent set of earphones and examine carefully the sound of drums on metal recordings before making blanket accusations like that.
+Caleb if you hate metal drumming, then why are you here? Fuck off already.
@@philipmarcus97 hes a troll
4:44 is where it gets really interesting
without trigger! I like the natural sound!
completely agree; drums should sound like drums. Otherwise, use an electronic pad for God's sake. If you can't play even sixteenth strokes, practice more. Or, just live with it, because music is an expression of human beings, not goddamn robots.
It's also a matter of being heard through the mix. Playing with triggers isn't necessarily easier.
As Wanja said, your timing has to be perfectly on point.
Playing only with an acoustic sound, you can hide your weaknesses quite well. If your playing is weak, it gets buried in the mix.
If your playing isn't even enough, some of the hits will be totally missing, unless you use and 50/ 50 natural/ acoustic mix of the bass drum.
Personally I always preferred playing without triggers, but sometimes the music and the speed demands them. Otherwise no one will hear what you are actually playing.
To me, triggers are an additional source for fuck ups, especially when you use a double pedal and not two separated bass drums.
If not adjusted sensitive enough, hits will be missing. If adjusted too sensitive, you'll get double triggers or the trigger goes off when you hit the snare or even the toms.
Also, it's a different kind of playing to me.
Basileus Metal like alproxxx said, it's about being heard in the mix.
Usually most mixes for drums have both the mic'd sound and the trigger. It allows for it to cut through the mix better and still retain the warmth of the acoustic drums.
Usually when I mix I LOVE triggers especially when mixing the blast beats to ensure every hit comes through and it's attack is on point.
If the song switches to a soft section, have the trigger turned down and the acoustic drum come through more. This allows for a consistent sound (not sound as if you switched drums in the middle of a performance). Allowing the acoustic to come through in a soft section ensures your dynamics are intact.
triggers and blast beats. yep, you're not a real drummer.
as a beginning sound engineer, i cringe reading some comments :p. Did you know that triggering your acoustic drums opens up the door for mixing in real and triggered drums at the same time? maybe even automate between them. The best (modern) metal songs you love probably used a trigger somewhere. Triggering is real drumming btw.. that's like saying playing electrical guitar is not real guitar playing? XD
Killer drumming, man! Both triggered and acoustic sound great, in my opinion. Just a matter of choice. Subbed, keep up the great work!
What i really like about your leg technique is that all the strokes have similar sounding. Learning that technique for 2 weeks now thanks to you!
I think playing without triggers is a great way to gain better dynamics and resistance to a steady kick (especially double bass) but as mentioned the video, triggerd bass drums sound much more clear live as every kick can be heard. I kinda like the skills on no triggers, but i like the efficiency on using triggers
The triggers things was an enigma to me for many years. Thank you for reveal to me today. I prefer the natural sound too but in the mix I always find a sound like a trigger.
the drummer in my old band was really good at tuning his drums and played around with his setup a lot. he was able to get a trigger sound with no trigger as we were all into metal at the time. although he was the most consistent hitting drummer i ever played with in terms of hits so it's probably related. all other drummers i worked with were either never consistent with their hits or were fairly soft with their feet to where the cymbals were just always louder.
i play drums myself so i think often about the base drum sound of different bands. My favourite so far is definitely from Breakdown of Sanity :)
Really it's good to get the best of both worlds I think. The harsh, hard hitting punch of the trigger and the deep chest rumbling bass of the acoustic combined evenly
It depends. I prefer oldskool black and death metal with average to lo-fi sound quality. Recording the kit with just 1-4 mics and pre-mixing the output with care creates a more down-to-earth and personal sound. I've never been into "drum centered" music, even though the drums work as a central pulse to most music. You can still make good technical death metal even if you have a low-budget mic setup.
Do you also like Veles - Night on the bare mountain?
Me too! Modern death metal nowadays just sound way too triggered!
Far out I don't even play the drums but I found this interesting and informative. Kinda dig the acoustic sound myself, shot dude.
Def got my sub dude! I this is really informative and demonstrative thank you so much!
Very well explained, congratulations
I personally like the acoustic sound more because there's more bass in it. And that's why it's called the bass drum after all because there's supposed to be a lot of bass in it. I don't like the kind of clicking triggered sound. Just my opinion :-)
Kevin Kováč coming from an audio engineering standpoint, kicks that are really bass-y tend to muddy up mixes rather easily. That's why your typical metal kick is balanced more on the attack side. Being that low end waves are the most powerful, they eat up tons of headroom and overpower other instruments easily, especially on fast double kick runs.
Tyler Hanson you're right, but don't metal kicks typically have a "smiley face" eq? because the low mid range is what muds up the mix the most. there is a lot of bass in this example, it's just sub (50hz ish).
Not necessarily. The fundamentals for high tempo metal kicks can be mixed pretty high up there (I've seen projects with kicks that got as high as 130 Hz). Also, mud does not always come from the low mids. For instance, If you have a fast double kick run on a kick with plenty of sub frequencies, the build up of sub energy will pretty much eat up any mix on any speaker system because of intermodulation distortion. For those types of mixes, you'll want to pick a kick sample that is more click-y than bass-y because it cuts easier and won't muck up the low end as much. And the low end will be more "felt" than heard anyways.
Kevin Kováč Typewriter bass drums
Tyler Hanson cool, thanks! :)
Every engineer has room to learn for another!
One of the best trigger explanation
Never liked triggers
it all depends for how you use it, of course the natural sound is always preferable but to cut through the wall of sound and to get the consistency at high speeds, triggering is the only way. Awesome video, great playing!
This is the first video I see from you. Let me start saying that you are an amazing drummer. Great control and dynamic range.
About this video, I was hopping a crazier use of the trigger. The sounds results you're getting are achievable just with an EQ. Obviously the gatting capabilty is not achieved through the EQ.
I would love seeing a video of a crazy bass pattern with some out of mind effect on the trigger.
Dude I love your drumming! I have to pick my jaw off the floor!
You the man!! Keep em coming
Amazing!
excellent explication I am from Ecuador salutes thanks for you information, who do you installed in all drum and console,
Great explanation man, saludos!
You can use velocity dynamic in sampler to save your foot dynamic.
Are you going to have any master drum classes in the future? We love to see you play! Thanks!
Acoustic for me. Ive used triggers before due to the velocity difference when playing fast. But, when the acoustic kick is miked it can be EQ'd and compressed to get alot of attack and made to sound like a trigger.
I think it depends on the genre really. triggered kicks are more practical though, especially for metal.
Wunderbarerweise vorgestellt!!
Best metal drummer. Respect from Italy
Your videos are awesome!!
where do you get your kick drum samples my dude?
when you have a tasty mix, both techniques could fit well :) of course you can attack the acoustic bass signal as well as you can boost some decent 50hz at the triggered one. for home drumming I would say get some nice samples for your trigger
Triggers are great for practice at home and with the band! Makes you hear if you are off with the rolls, and lets your bandmates hear you better over all the low rumbling guitar and bass!
Cooles Video! Viele grüße aus Mönchengladbach! XD Verdienst auf jeden Fall mehr abos... Eins mehr hast du jetzt schon mal!
Sehr gut ;)
You’re an AMAZING drummer dude
I'd like to see more drummers use hard plastic or metal impact pads to get that good attack. I love the sound that I get from my Gibraltar, danmar, and even Sound percussion impact pads.
Great A/B demo best I've seen on youtube. I really prefer the acoustic sound I'm a guitarist but I'm planning on buying a kit soon, for fast double bass tone would you recommend smaller size bass drums like 20x16, 22x14 or would bigger 22x16, 24x14 get too muddy and lost in a dense mix? I'm planning on getting two bass drums by the way.
Doesn't really matter - tuning and muffling make a lot more difference than the size. But for me personally 24" would be too big because the toms have to be higher that way. Also transport is very impractical with two 24" bass drums! I have 22" which is kind of standard and a good all-around size that you can achieve many different sounds with.
Yeah I'm thinking 22"' You got a Sonor kit right? It sounds really good. I'm thinking of getting a Ludwig since they're made in North Carolina, I like how Sonor's are made in Germany but a nice Ludwig kit is cheaper and good enough for me.
I actually have a Mapex M birch ;)
With trigger it sounds good and clarity in base and the mistakes can be tracked easily.
Amigo, consigo tirar um som do meu bumbo muito bom mesmo sem o Wirth trigger...
Man your footwork is crazy.
Absolute machine!
I prefer 2 separate bass drums. the sound is bigger
I usually do the double stroke as per your demonstration in this video in which the first stoke is louder. I started practicing your foot technique on the same pearl pedal that you got. I'm not quite sure if I need to modify the springs tension or if I need to set the foot plate higher. Would you be able to make a video about this particular pedal setup? Thanks!
Check this out: ua-cam.com/video/U0udDWClB9A/v-deo.html
This is great! I'm using the axis plastic beaters from the earlier axis models they are way better than the wooden beaters provided by pearl! I'll do the adjustments as per your video and get back with the response so others may benefit! Thanks again!
I like the way this trigger sounds
How fast can you go with that foot technique and make every hit audible without triggers
Would it sound too muddy if you used a bit of both?
You mean that with triggers all hits sounded even if the attack is different than the acoustic and at high speeds we want hits been clearly sounded!Nice explanation man!! Also triggers can setted with the sound anyone wants to avoid the dry electronic sound!
Amazing
I think I'm pretty open-minded here. Whatever fits with a song shoud be used.
Some modern metal songs with blazing fast double bass would probably sound very bad with only acoustic bass drum, while some old school stuff needs exactly that sound.
Really depends on style & genre in my opinion. ^^
Simple drumming is always the best in metal, unless its extremely good drumming. Really technical stuff tends to get boring quickly.
Underrated video
Holy shit, i love your foot technique
Fantastic. You have a new sub.
Nice ;)
Should have shown difference between single and double kick drums. Personally I like the triggers. A lot cleaner than the garage sound of acoustic.
Where do you get your kick trigger samples and how can I find some (I just bought a tm-2
I use a custom sample from my band Negator. If you want to find good ones just search the internet ;) Dan Presland from Ne Obliviscaris uploaded his personal sample some while ago and many seem to like it a lot: www.dropbox.com/s/xkykaogirm5j8t0/Dan%20Presland%20NeO%20kick%20dec%202015.wav?dl=0
I see these arguments about triggers all the time and people saying "oh well my metal band I listen to don't use triggers" yeah they might not using triggers on their drum set when recording, but trust me those bass pedal hit wave forms in the recording are being zoomed in on and replaced with a better sounding hit or a different kick sound all together especially if they play fast double bass.
i think it also makes a difference if you play double kick or double bass drums
where did you get that trigger sample? it sounds really good
It is a custom sample that I got from a bandmate.
How I can learn your technique?
I prefer acoustic. with the right tuning and micros/mixing you have a way better sound as with triggers
Dynamic is also important in my style
WHY ARE YOU SO GOOD
Is the tape on the bottom of the toms used to shorten the note?
Yes.
still putting out awesome videos bro, respect
Where do you get your drum samples for the trigger module?
I use a custom sample that I got from my band Negator.
The secret of big kick sound is to use plastic or wooden beater a bit of side processing compression with distorsion gate, but trigger make the sound consistent it's not rare today to see metal head drummer using trigger on bass drum on stage, i like both method depend of your taste and playing habit, but making it real on pure acoustic is possible.
acoustic all the way...you should eq and compress the acoustic sound to match the triggered sound.
Awesome videos btw.
nice control on pedals
I'm pleased that you use the same trigger as mine, Roland TM-2. By the way, what kit do you usually set, BlastAttack, HeavyMetal, Brighter, ProgMetal, or MetalAttack?
I use a custom kick sample ;)
Thanks! I'd try
At that speed and not using double stroke and swivel is amazing
I really enjoyed your video. Great foot technique! What pedals are you using? Greetings from South East Texas \m/
Thank you! Check out the video description for the equipment ;)
Greetings from Germany \m/
Haha that's funny, because just a few hours ago my co workers and I were talking about German beer. What's the best German beer in your opinion?
Hard to say - I think my favourite would be Duckstein but there are many more that are good, like Köstritzer, Flensburger Pils e.g.
Damn... you're good, bro.
What beaters are you using on those demon drives?
Standard Sonor beaters.
exelente vídeo!!!!
🤘😈🤘
muito bom caralho tecnica sinistra nos pés dahora
what about moving the mic or playing a kick that is more punchy or clicky.
Well, you can get a very clicky sound but still there would be the "problem" of dynamics.
Shouldn't the overall dynamics of the drums be fixed with practice? If a drummer wants to hear more kick shouldn't he just play everything else less and the kick more?
Man I respect our band drummer. He’s using acoustic but manage to hit the bass drum hard
I have never used electronic assistance when playing, but I am curious.
I think I heard you saying that some have uneven playing skills, and uneven sound, and the triggers correct they playing ability. It makes their uneven performance even.
Or did I hear wrong?
If so, that means the end result being heard by the audience is not the actual performance of the drummer, rather they hear 9:31 sounds triggered by a drummer but generated by Roland.
My question is : Why then bother bringing acoustic kick drums on stage ?. Couldn't you just bring the pedals and some kind of triggered stopper-pads, or simpler and lighter, one of these modern electronic drum kits ?
Thank you
idol....
what sticks do you use? size and style and whatnot
This ones: www.amazon.com/dp/B00C7J42YC/?tag=hbbe-wg-20
Thank you, i actually found the link in the description after commenting but forgot to mention it lol
Both sounds cool...
I feel like both have their place in metal. For instance, in the song Hacksaw Surgery by Guttural Slug (ua-cam.com/video/6LAAEVyeoWE/v-deo.html) an acoustic bass pedal would be beneficial to bring out the deep, throbbing tone of the guitars and emphasize the bass-heavy feel of the song. However, with the song Infinite Death by Thy Art Is Murder (ua-cam.com/video/PSXH0xgy-0o/v-deo.html), I feel like the triggered bass pedal is more suitable for emphasizing the razor-sharp lightning pace of the song and for giving it extra punch. Anybody agree with me?
how tall is the grass in germany?
Taller than on the moon I guess.
Ich find es schwierig einen vollproduzierten Triggersound mit einem fast rohen Audiosignal zu vergleichen, weil es eigentlich nicht vergleichbar ist. Klar ist, dass man mit Trigger schneller einen passablen Sound bekommt (Vorteil bei kurzen Soundcheckzeiten), aber mit ein paar Kniffen geht das auch nur mit Mics ;)
Do you do session drumming?
Generally yes but at the moment I am a bit too busy.
how do the recording studios even get the triggered sound tho, do the like hit the bass drum with a rock or something?
There are huge sample libraries where you can pick a ton of different sounds. Often there are also many different bass drum sounds put together.
ok, if you ever do a Soilwork cover from "the living infinite", i will freak out!!!!!!! i think youre one of the few who actually might get it right :)
i might have found a new fav drummer to watch ;)
I'm more interested in how he makes his left and right beaters sound symmetrical without triggers
With the Pearl Demon Drive pedal both beaters are symmetrically left and right from the center of the drumhead. And I have set up both sides exactly the same way.
El sonido del bombo sample elegido tiene otro tono y otro ataque que el acústico.
No 22LR gunshots for me , natural tone and dynamic ftw, if you want a natural attack sound get sharper bearing edge and change your skins and change your beaters.
Get a outter port mic for your low freq “gut” bass sound, get a pg56 mic or sm57 and aim it where your beater hits the batter head that is your natural attack that your bass drum mic sound can’t pick up.
does tuning affect the trigger or no?
If you tune your bass drum head too high and/or don't muffle it the trigger may misfire more often and/or produce "double triggers".
i have never seen a drummer who use triggers and mics together. i think it will give you the best of both worlds. a little bit of dynamics and a combined sound. can you pls check this out
LittleProgMonster a lot of drummers do that actually.
I don't have enough channels available to do that but here is an old video where I did it (because it was recorded in a studio): ua-cam.com/video/ltbLm8F2JAw/v-deo.html
Always the two together... Audix D6 and trigger.. For Metal of course..
Vinnie paul uses triggers and acoustics together
Barbequed Happy Meal I'm a big fan of clicky bass drum playing, it's like extra percussion
Depends the brand and the size of the kick ;)
this was also a great tutorial on setting up your demon drive pedals.
like + subscribed, this sounds too good man, sounds like a band from my country.. Here Comes the Kraken (Y)
Greetings
Acoustic sounds like Mike Tyson hitting punching bag
Trigger sounds like Amir Kahn hitting a slip bag
greetings from México