It's Time To Stop Breaking MCU's Multiverse
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2022
- Between Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Loki, Hulk, Wanda, and many more, it seems that Marvel has run into a Multiverse problem. Through the recent installments of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, "breaking the multiverse" has almost become the new villain threaded throughout the stories. With every new adventure, it seems the balance of the Multiverse is at steak. But how many times can Marvel actually threaten the destruction of the Multiverse before it loses all its suspense?
#marvel #multiverse #nerdstalgic
Written by Ash Mitrano
Edited by Chris De Pew - Розваги
The Multiverse makes me care less and less of what happens to any of these characters. Cause one dies,they can always come back easily. No high stakes.
I like the idea of the Multiverse buts it's very confusing
It's not the fault of the concept of the multiverse, but how it is presented in the MCU.
@@juliiju0484 💯
To be fair they never had high stakes. Good guys never lose and when they do they lol time travel to fix it.
wdym? in mom reed tells dr strange he can’t stay there for long or else he de stabilizes reality
Honestly the Multiverse Saga works better in the comics than in the MCU films/tv shows. With the MCU you have to deal with contracts, budgets, continuity errors and real life situations (ie. Chadwick's death), whereas in print you have access to every character and more freedom.
Excellent point.
The only good thing we've gotten with the MCU Multiverse is an animated Doctor Strange episode from What If.... and that was fantastic.
Everything else has mediocre as toast
@@chasehedges6775 all of the mcu shows have been great especially she hulk idk what your talking about
@@johnnycage6676 They have been hit or miss
@@chasehedges6775 lol they have been terrible 🤣
@@johnnycage6676 expert troll
Multiverses are like necromancy - fun for a film or so, but loses more suspense and thrill the more a franchise uses it.
Yeah it literally just makes everything feel like it doesnt matter anymore. Zero stakes.
@@PlanetAfterlife everything and everywhere all at once uses it perfectly tho
I really agree with this I think that they need to go back to how hawkeye was, very down to earth and street level. we need that with daredevil.
This guy necromances
@@Chaxlotl yea but that’s not a franchise. Having time travel/ timelines is different in single stories like attack on Titan, everything and everywhere all at one, or Rick and morty.
Having all MCU movies connected is cool but they really need to stop shoehorning cameos to build up the next movie and let each film stand on its own
I have been saying this for years now that’s why I still get more excited for dc releases because the mcu during the infinity saga didn’t feel like movies that could stand on there own but more like chapters in a book we had to wait 10 years to finish cause of only getting one chapter at a time the movie being connected is a cool novelty but when each movie is just setup for the next one that novelty stops being cool and the concept of an interconnected universe wasn’t invented by the mcu Hanna-Barbera and the power rangers has been doing it many years before marvel ever thought about making iron man in 2008
Dude this argument is so weird to me. So many times I see people make the argument that the movies aren’t connected enough and each film seems separate from the MCU. But now you’re saying it’s too connected
But... Cameos and setup next movies/series are literally the main foundations of the MCU 😅.
When a MCU movie has a great story by its own, awesome, I applaud. But that's the both things that makes the MCU what it is.
@@kevin10001 but that… that was the point of the Infinity Saga though! It was like the old school serials of the 1930’s and 40’s but with better budget. It’s just that none of us picked up on it until stuff like Civil War came out. I mean I’ve noticed that so many of you guys want self contained movies but refusing to acknowledge that that era of those types of Comic Book movies just don’t put butts in seats like they used to, which is why DC is just stuck in atm. I mean don’t get me wrong I see the problems the Multiverse Saga has it’s not perfect, but neither was The Infinity Saga so we should really be giving this next storyline the benefit of the doubt here instead of acting like every project r-worded our childhoods like Star Wars fans did to George Lucas because they couldn’t handle something new and different.
Anyone complaining about this shit isn't really that much of a fan. Comics constantly have crossovers. Back in the old day you had to wait 4-5 years to see a crossover
Your point here is exactly why "Everything Everywhere All At Once" is such an amazing movie. Literally anything can happen and probably does, and lacking the need to connect everything together makes it so much more interesting.
Yep. Michelle Yeoh and James Hong starred in their lower budget multiverse 2022 and it came out quite good.
I feel like the most annoying part of MoM was that America Chavez was just a plot device. You could have replaced her with some gem that can go to new universes and the movie was be the exact same.
As bland as America Chavez is, her actress did a wonderful job and gave a good performance.
She was adorable
Had America Chavez been a Labrador Retriever, it would have made sense how she'd be spooked by everything that moved... "squirrels!" and would have been okay with the movie's character development.
No, America was important because Strange learns that it's not always him who has to be the saviour.
@@kevinmckenna5682 They really could have done it better tho. Why not show both Dr Strange AND America Chavez fighting Wanda? That'd make so much more sense but nope.
You could even have Zombie-possessed Strange, America and Wanda flying through the Multiverse like they did earlier in the film.
Such lazy and rushed writing, if you can even call it that
@@kevinmckenna5682 that has been done in infinite war.
Bruh, the "MCU Multiverse" was never about fans getting the story they want/deserve, it was about creating an infinite money-making machine and it has succeeded
They really only did it to do cameos. That’s all the mcu is now. Not the mcu we used to have.
💯💯👍
Had. Between that and political propaganda, many are just giving up on it.
Fans need to enjoy the ride and let them tell the story that they are building up too. It is like being at a camp fire. We sit back and let the story teller tell their story.We are not the story teller but we want to take over the story that the story teller is trying to tell.🤔
Don’t forget it also takes away negotiation power from their actors.
Now anytime they have an actor being difficult or asking for better pay, they can easily recast them with the multiverse without upsetting or confusing fans.
My biggest issue with multiverse of madness is it's lack of creativity with the multiverse. Everything everywhere all at once and into the spider-verse did it so much better.
For the ppl asking why I included spider verse when they dont really go to any other universes its bcuz the way i see it there 2 sides to multiverse stories. Ones where the protagonist goes to other universes or ones where people from other universes come to the protagonists universe. In my opinion spider man really creatively explored the second type of multiverse story. Theres obviously more ways of exploring the multiverse in a movie but those r the general 2.
That movie is the real Multiverse of madness
Did it though I mean hot dog hands was the best they got lol.
@@Anthonycheesman33 bro did u even watch the rock scene or racoonie
@@mariannoshenoy4592 There is no point in talking with this guy. If he thinks sausage hands was the best thing he probably need to have a lot of laughter and a lot of comedy in the movie. He probably thinks Thor 4 was te best movie yet because GOATS
EEAAO is beautiful. The fact they could give emotions to a pair of rocks and give even the raccoon and hot dog fingers pathos is amazing
Tom Hardy's Brock only serving as a way for the MCU to basically say "There, you got your five minutes of fame. Now off you go, and we'll take some of this to our discretion" still gets me. All that effort to set up Venom knowing who that Peter is only for it to mean nothing to that Brock and only serving to allow the MCU to likely "do a better version" in their eyes.
I'm reposting my other comment.
One big weakness of the Multiverse is when they basically do what Spider-Man did and set it up as a glass window instead of a door to be opened. Like yeah Venom and Morbius are in the same multiverse, but it doesn't matter because Sony will never let them all come together in a MCU movie anyways. So why tease us? Seeing Peter-2 and Peter-3 was VERY cool, and they were relevant in NWH, but it stings knowing they probably won't even be referenced in the future.
Yah and there is no better venom than Tom hardy so all it’ll do is make fans more angry and upset
@@GreigaBeastDS I could see Disney eat Sony if they do not eventually sell those rights away.
@@Alresu A hostile takeover is much harder to do overseas-not impossible, but it’s not as easy as Musk did to Twitter
Every story needs an ending. Every hero needs a conclusion to their journey. Even with stories about the multiverse.
But hulk and Thor really need to be done with
That's not what the mcu have in mind and comic book industry in general unfortunately. Its why Invincible is good, there's an ending to Mark's story
The Multiverse was, and still is, a unique and cool concept. But when you start to abuse it, and make it a core feature in everything you do, you then make it so that no story before or even after matters anymore.
Soooo true
There is probably a joke in there somewhere about comics generally being fine with the concept of a retcon in the 1st place.
Unique?
@@chefcorinth I mean, I always thought it was. Having multiple universes/dimensions or realities. Back then I would’ve scoffed at it but I think it definitely works if you have a good writing crew tackle it.
I think the MCU is running into the same problems that the comics have had for a long time. Too many crossovers and big events with different plotlines and characters crammed in. You would be reading the comic of a character you really like and they'd get drawn into a crossover event where you would have no idea what's going on unless you read 10 other comics and buy the big special event series to see how it all gets resolved.
Yeah, the M.C.U. is finally turning into Marvel.
@@-haclong2366 MCU has always been Marvel
The issue is, everyone is expecting EVERY SINGLE PHASE 4 PROPERTY TO HAVE WORLD ENDING STAKES. They're expecting 10+ characters from different properties to cameo & then disappoint themselves and call Love & Thunder bad just because Thor is trying to hard to seem okay to everyone around him. People aren't supposed to be looking at the upcoming MCU properties with the entire flash card knowledge of their stories that they've had read at them by desperate UA-camrs, you're not supposed to pick apart every second of interviews and trailers and try and guess the movie's events before you even see it.
@@Whiteythereaper thank you somebody with common fucking sense everybody’s whining about the multiverse saga and how there’s “no stakes “ like wtf does that even mean. If anything every project that’s upcoming from phase 5 and phase 6 already in my eyes will do significantly better than anything from phase 1-3 and an argument could be put up for infinity war/endgame. But slander on phase 4 just because majority of these shows and movies didn’t live up to some peoples ridiculously high expectations does not mean Marvel is declining or getting worse anytime soon, I mean even marvels worst projects still get attention and kills most movies with the box score I have nothing but trust for anything kevin feige puts out
I just don’t think marvel sees it as a problem
Marvel is just actively undoing everything they have been working towards with the MCU
Good point.
No, they really aren't. Entitled fanboys are picking and choosing things they want to say are bad, purely because it's suddenly cool to say "no the multiverse stuff is overplayed" when we've barely seen anything. We have only just reached a point in Phase 4 that the properties that weren't affected by Covid lockdowns, besides Black Panther, are starting to release. The stories that we are seeing were supposed to take place closer to Endgame and suffered rewrites and complete overhauls to adjust to the new insurance costs and social distancing rules during filming. The characters that have appeared before are supposed to still be traumatised by Thanos and what happened. The new ones are supposed to show more of the history of the universe, showing us Gods and cosmic beings that, until now, had stayed hidden, abandoning much of the known universe, only coming back after Thanos using the Infinity Gauntlet threatened to undo reality, and the technology of Earth has shown that they are ready to cause chaos.
I keep saying the mcu is gonna run into that problem where things get so big/outrageous that stakes won’t be felt very much. It’ll just become another big event that’s cool to watch. Constantly upping the ante with giant, crazy universe ending stuff like this multiverse sagas doing it isn’t gonna keep this interesting or engaging. It’ll just be… well… cool to watch. That’s it. No substance, just cool action, CGI here, quip and joke here, etc. And for the multiverse to be such a big deal, it didn’t feel like it’s being used very well. For a movie called Mutiverse of Madness, it didn’t feel quite as “mad” as it was cracked up to be. Just felt a bit mediocre and didn’t explore much very well. To me, to me.
True, it just feels like some weird Dragon Ball-esque tale of ever increasing power levels. First of all, that means they HAVE to keep upping the ante, and great characters and villains end up losing focus just for being street-level, secondly this constant need to one-up the previous movie will eventually lead to a problem when they reach a point where that's no longer possible. If Loki and the early bad guys were threats to all of Earth or the galaxy, Thanos was a threat to the Universe, and Kang will be a threat to the Multiverse, what can they possibly do next? How can they outdo "saving reality itself"?
@@starkillersneed I was gonna mention Dragon Ball, too. There are so many asspulls, and unnecessary power ups and scaling imbalances that it’s become really hard for things to even feel special about it anymore. This isn’t gonna feel any different if it keeps going.
@@NoirNameless Imagine how much less hype Infinity War and Endgame would have if every single Marvel movie was a mega teamup where they face a Thanos-level villain
@@starkillersneed That’s facts. I’m actually a bit afraid for how they’ll handle my favorite villain. Which is Dr. Doom. I’m scared he’ll either be rushed, the badassary won’t be captured the same, or will be a letdown the same way Gorr was. Villains like them with because of the buildup and characters having to organically come together to stop them. I swear cameos just don’t feel as special as they used to. It’s so weird that at one point, cameos felt impossible, now they’re second nature and serve no purpose most of the time.
They're pretty much already there.
Id personally really like to hear Fiege’s honest thoughts of how he feels the MCU is going and fans’ reception. It’s quite obvious a lot of folks are not happy with phase 4 going as far as to say it sucks. Kevin was much more vocal and honest up to Endgame. Now he’s elusive and only talks when he has to put up a smile for Disney.
Feige is a hack
Well, they tried doing "save the world" plots fairly frequently back during the original three phases, so I'm betting they felt that audiences would be tired of stakes at that level, hence the need to up things a bit 🤔
The issue is that they're doing it for every single movie, solo films as well as Avengers films.
Iron Man 1, 2, and 3 weren't world ending, Cap 2 and 3 weren't world ending, Thor 1 wasn't world ending, etc. etc.
It used to be that for the most part, solo films were more character based and smaller scale with the huge world ending storylines reserved for avengers movies.
Now it's every. Single. Movie. That's where the issue arises. They've basically turned the TV shows into the small scale stuff and the movies into world shattering multiverse shattering catastrophes that they somehow manage to stop by the end only for them to set up another one down the line.
Spiderman, Doctor Strange, Eternals, even black widow to an extent. All these massive Avengers level threats to the world or the multiverse.
What they need to do is tone it back down. Have a big event every once in awhile not every movie or it just becomes stale in the grand scheme of things.
@@ploopy8780 I'd look at it another way in that sometimes, the main hero does save the world outside of the Avengers. That wasn't Spider-Man 1-2, but was 3. He's gone through the bulk of the roster of his main local threats, by the end of the 3rd film. The real recurring theme is that it was a threat of his own making that endangered the world/multiverse. He essentially did what Tony did with Ultron, but fudged it up a little bit worse. It took 3 versions of him and Strange to fix it. His entire arc is him becoming a better hero on the level of the Avengers. Which means he kind of needs to survive/prevent a world ending event. Iron man sacrificing himself in the Avengers to save the world is an expression of his evolution. Cap did it out the gate in his 1st movie because he's practically already perfect. So humble he chose not to lift Mjolnir the 1st time. Peter looks up to both of them.
The Eternals are already their own powerful group, that would absolutely be the type with world level stakes. They just felt out of place by the time the story reached present day. Magic wielders by design are pretty much capable of breaking reality. Can't imagine making a movie with them or Strange and not have that level of threat. Phase 1 was building up to Thanos, and there was always that looming threat even though that particular day had been saved. The multiverse use is just them winning battles before the real big war. The next big threat is coming from there in as opposed to Space. Once again set in motion in part by the heroes' themselves. Also Loki. He keeps fucking shit up too (still, kinda the heroes' fault).
Some of my favorite Dr. Strange comics is where he saves like two or three people.
@@ploopy8780 Soooo true
Anyone know that Jake Gyllenhaal movie where he is forced to keep rewinding time for 8 minutes to stop the bomb in the train? I loved how they treat timeline/multiverse idea there.
I searched it up: it’s called source code :)
Source code
I've not seen the most recent MCU movies (not counting No Way Home), but I really really enjoyed Loki and our brief look at a possible Kang. I think it might be better if these newer films tried to focus more on small-scale stories than multiverse-ending catastrophes for a bit though. Thank you for the video!
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
They'll use the "modern" comics for their inspiration despite them not working or anywhere near as popular.
I doubt Secret Wars will work without a cast that's largely gone now unless they recast and manage to recover what they lost since the Captain Marvel movie.
I'm still pissed that they're trying to claim the mcu is universe 616 when it legit has it's own universe number assigned to it already from the comics
It annoys me as well man
theyre two different continuties how tf do you not know this by now lol… how do you think the living tribunal is still alive.. how do you think there was only one multiversal war to ever happen with only kangs… why is america chavez completety different…
I'd like a multiverse they make no reference to. Like, X-Men should be a whole new "cinematic universe" from Marvel and they shouldn't bother tying in Avengers.
The X Men films were as hit or miss under 20th Century Fox Fox as Marvel is with Disney.
ITS A GOOD THING YOU’RE NOT WORKING ON THESE FILMS AND NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU WANTS
@@chasehedges6775 yeah, but imagine a "phase 1" "Apocalypse Saga" as good as phase one of "infinity saga." I can dream, can't I?
That’s how I feel, the X-men should have their own universe because they are going to ruin them trying to have them in the same universe
@@stringer2295 it's too late to suddenly say "they were here all along!" Or "society is persecuting them because superpowers." It really should just be its own thing, and hopefully more comic accurate than the Fox movies. And it should take place in the 90s so Magneto is 100 years old...
The only part I didn't like about MoM was the "our dreams are visions of the multiverse" twist when later on in the movie, they say only magic users with the Darkhold can dreamwalk. Did the writers forget lucid dreaming exists? I read one theory that lucid dreaming for non magic users is them exploring the future of another universe's version of themselves, their mind retains chunks of this dream, then experiences deja vu when said events actually happen. Or that only magic users with the Darkhold can dreamwalk at will while non magic users do it without control.
I can't fathom why anyone would waste mental energy pondering this question
Honestly I thought that whole concept should have been limited to only magic users because the idea that dreams are views into other realities felt silly and a massive rule to affect the entire MCU even for a movie of this genre.
@@silverblue73 😂
That is one of the main part I did not like. This means that no one has creative dreams their just different realities.
You missed the whole concept of dream walking. It has little to do with lucid dreaming and everything to do with possession of your multiverse body such that it is dream walking.
The multiverse just feels like an ex-machina for the entire MCU.
Funny how the real multiverse theory is also an ex-machina for the atheistic mind
@@benjaminwatt2436 You mean to say that atheists like to cite multiple possibilities as a reason for being atheists, essentially launching an ex-machina to any argument for the contrary? Interesting.
@@benjaminwatt2436wtf does this mean?
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_AnatmanHe has no idea what he's talking about lol
“Multiverse of Madness doesn’t explain why travelling to other universes is dangerous”
MoM literally showing an entire universe falling apart because it collided with another one: what?
Yeah that sounds like a bad argument imo
its not consistent though. america chavez should be causing an incursion everywhere she goes, especially when she stays in the main universe at kamer taj
We need more scientific babble as to why being in another universe is a problem. Tell us matter being foreign causes ripples in the famous space time continuum or something and even then that wouldn’t explain why dreamwalking is problem.
But I think we needed more than just - your presence here could cause and incursion and a post credit scene confirming Dr S has causes one.
I assume they don’t want to be clear because at the end of SW they will want to merge some of this universes and they don’t want to contradict themselves.
@@salemgelidi3266 I mean there’s three pretty simple possibleexplanations for that
1) Because of her powers America doesn’t cause incursions
2) America can cause incursions but typically doesn’t have enough of an impact to do so
3) America does cause the occasional incursions we just haven’t seen it yet
@@jonasquinn7977 three pretty simple explanations that werent used though. its still valid to say that the film doesnt explain itself, because while these are possible, they arent presented at all lol theyre just theories
This video was amazing, it pointed out the potential downfalls of the multiverse, but also brought to light that things to possibly be excited for. Great work guys
"green stoplights and pizza balls" he's out of line but he's right
There are some non MCU projects that would be perfect for The Multiverse Saga like The Gifted which takes place in an alternate timeline in the X-Men Cinematic Universe. It could also help lead the next phases if they decide to do The Mutant Saga next. The final shot of the series is Blink creating a portal and now I can't help but think it could another universe.
The Multiverse Saga will hopefully be the last because the MCU is getting predictable and stale. This is coming from someone who enjoyed all the MCU movies up until the most recent ones.
@@KRYMauL the multiverse sage is no where near the last they have it planned out for at least 2 more phases 3 if the mutant saga happens
@@getrichcam3136 The Multiverse saga is the next three phases. Mutants will probably just be an interlude during this saga. Alternatively they could pull a Heroes Reborn/Avengers vs. X-Men and introduce the X-Men in that next phase.
I think if anything this “Secret Wars” movie is going to end with Battleworld.
@@KRYMauL my fault I meant to put saga not phase they've already confirmed an eternity and timeless saga and I said three if the mutants get their own saga
@@getrichcam3136 You said saga, making a whole mutants saga would be ridiculous because these moves are getting diminishing returns.
As soon as authors start introducing time travel and multiverse theory, I roll my eyes and move on.
As long as they keep bringing in the $, they’re not ruining anything from their perspective… clearly, good writing is *not* the priority…
clearly it is cause why do they keep getting money…..
before you say cameos or whatever well thats not what we got with MoM as literally everyone was expecting and yet still the franchise is doing great so…
Spot on! Whether it’s the sky beam (a kind of ex dues machina) or power creep, long -term story writers have to contend with it’s over usage of certain plot devices and characteristics. I don’t see power creep being as big of a deal in Marvel as in anime’s, but I don’t see sky beams being as much as an issue in anime’s. Interesting… thanks for the prompt and keep it up man!
I mean, if M.o.M. was more focused on THE MULTIVERSE insead of Maximoff's latest 'please feel bad for me' soap opera, then maybe we would've gotten somewhere.
Same. The evil Doctor Strange should have been the villain of Multiverse Of Madness
💯💯💯
It's a shame so many people miss the fact that she's being manipulated by the Darkhold. She's not in control, and at the end of the movie, she's rejected by the children she wanted and manages to break free of the control the dark magic had on her.
@@Whiteythereaper No , she's been a great heroine now turns into a villain for a trashy reason to find her kids why not her brother and vision ? A horrible way to write a villain and all of a sudden we're supposed to feel sympathy for her makes not sense like Cathy in falcon and the winter soldier
@@Whiteythereaper It feels to me like she took it to get what she wanted and it just ramped everything up to a 20.
Hawkeye has been my favorite entry from _Phase 4_ thus far. It would almost work as a movie if a little shorter in content and slightly restylized here and there, but I think if it were trimmed down any it could only be detrimental to its overall quality, because I think that entire miniseries is a really tight, densely-packed bottle rocket of entertainment.
Don't forget about What If and the concept of Absolute Points in time, where events that occur to certain people (likely nexus beings) that set their path can't be undone through scientific nor magical time travel, lest it cause a paradox that destroys that reality's timeline. That episode of what if was slightly helpful in explaining the difference between time traveling in MCU via time stone vs technology, but they still haven't done much to connect all these different ideas behind a unified set of rules for "MCU time travel/reality jumping".
I agree. As long as they keep giving chances for various unique (and relatively smaller scale) stories to be told, though, I’ll be happy. The last three Disney+ shows (Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, and She-Hulk) have been especially good examples of this in my opinion.
Nah, Multiverse of madness made me go, “yeah I think that’s enough MCU for me”
THAAAAANK YOUUUUUU!
I'm so confused. I just watch Golden Girls reruns now 🙃
I think they could've done something reminiscent of the First Avengers Movie,
Movies that took place in Different Universes then A Big Event Brings them All Together,
In my opinion if they had done that the Viewers won't complain that much asking where the other characters are and wait for the Big Event, And Viewers who are sick of seeing Cameos left and right would've been relieved,
Well, Nothing we can do about that now.
I mean, yeah, I think a big part of the appeal of Spider Man: No Way Home was that it caused 3 up-until-then seemingly completely unrelated film series to all interact. If they already all seem to be part of the same 'superuniverse', it dampens the 'when worlds collide' factor quite a bit.
@@jaschabull2365 I disagree, Many Fans on the Internet already knew they were going to be in the movie, but the fans were still excited because they were well-liked characters.
Probably why Shang-chi succeeded unlike the rest
@@mastername5373
They didn't know that until the trailers, or maybe whatever pre-trailer coverage of the movie was leaked before that. If it was clear from the first time Tom Holland appeared as Spiderman in 2016 that the McGuire and Garfield portrayals of the character would eventually meet him later, I must've been living under a bigger rock than I realized.
And in any case, it certainly wasn't apparent when watching the Raimi and Webb movies that there would later be a reboot that reintroduces its characters.
I think Loki did its multiverse theme really well, though No way home felt a bit off characterwise it used characters from the past which i appreciated. Dr Strange was the culmination of negatives of both, resulting in a character, visual mess that only so happens to be saved by sam raimi's horror, even that is not enough to save the horrible "plot armor" that the main characters have and the flip flop personality that is wanda. I do hope the next few movies will have a darker tone than love and thunder because it is a joke (yes the whole thing), so that we can experience something like civil war or winter soldier again
They need to hurry up and do the Fantastic Four correctly, so we can get the counsel of Richards
I REALLY wanted to like Multiverse of Madness, but it just did not stick the landing. Lots of cool Raimi-isms on screen but the script itself was left to be desired and it just doesn't feel like there are any stakes other than hearing how things need to be repaired. What really bummed me out is that Mordo warns Stephen at the end of his first outing that "the bill always comes due" and then we got nothing from the character, no conflict or what he has been up to since slowly taking back magic from sorcerers since he feels there are too many of them in the world and that only ones who are worthy should wield such power. Really fumbled the continuation of Doctor Strange for me and yeah, No Way Home Strange was sloppy and irresponsible which had me believing he was a fake to set up something that was going to raise the bar. I should have known that was not going to be the case. Also, for the Multiverse to really have an effect on the storytelling, don't introduce a character like America Chavez this early into the narrative as it feels like she can break the whole movie with her abilities but the writers are like well she can't control her powers and therefore we nerf her until necessary.
Aren't they building up for secret wars? Confusing timelines is a core element of it.
Phase 4 writers are a bunch of hacks who haven't even read even remotely the source material. In order for the mcu to improve marvel needs to actually hire competent writers and not just hacks who happen to agree with the political ideas marvel wants to push like the she hulk writer.
She Hulk isn’t political… lol it’s a superhero sitcom about a woman. You thought the source material didn’t dig at men and highlight things women go through?
@@Dcovington bruh they spent an entire episode straight up telling us how hard she hulk has it compared to her uncle just because she's a woman in a scene that was memed worldwide. And coincidentally she hulks writer is a man hating feminist . Yea you're right it ain't political. Bug brain deduction...
2:27 never noticed this but Tobey does a flip and kicks off of the freaking ceiling and then lands. That’s dope as hell
Part of why the multiverse / flash point style stories have appeal in comics is that it encourages you to read every single title released, to get a grip on all the side stories and plot twists and relevant moments. But with Disney pay walling all their "TV series" and putting heavy plot weight on some lower level characters that people have not heard of...
Sure, some people will lap it up and want more, but the bulk of the public, like they do with comics when they pick up a single issue of a comic they know of that's crossing over everywhere...
They will read one issue, watch one film, "Oh! I know Spiderman! Let's read / watch that!" be very confused about multiple plot twists that are explained in other media (why did the Statue of Liberty have a Captain America shield in No Way Home? Guess you need to watch a multi-hour long show, ignore it, or just have it stick under your skin, making you not want to keep watching)...
So... just like with the comics, it becomes an all or nothing situation. And the bulk of the public is going to skip. They are going to lose people, not gain them. Not everyone has the time / can afford / cares enough to watch through 30 hours of media just to watch a film with their friends.
My biggest problem with the Multiverse is that it's doing the opposite of what it's supposed to. On paper, it's an escalation from Thanos; a threat on a scale larger than we've ever seen, on every possible front. But what it's actually doing is removing all the stakes from the stories. If there are infinite versions of the universe, there's no reason anyone can't come back from any fate. Every consequence has been removed, so nothing holds any weight.
That’s not how the multiverse works in the MCU mate
@@dtkdave6501 It's literally already happened with Loki, Wanda's kids, No Way Home, etc.
I made it an event to see every MCU film opening night with my daughter [who’s very much into action/superheroes/Marvel characters/anime], my other kids who have also enjoyed it, and my fiancée who loves the experience/time spent…but after Endgame, it just hasn’t been the same. We watched No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness in theaters, but those are the only two we’ve watched after Endgame. The series haven’t really scratched that itch, and there are a few I didn’t even watch.
I’m just not that into it anymore, which sucks ‘cause I want to be excited for Secret Wars, but I’m not givin’ up on the MCU.
Loki and No Way Home has been the only greatest thing to come of the Multiverse Saga
Agreed
And Shang-chi
I don't disagree with the argument that the multiverse deserves to be bigger and more fleshed out when used in the future but that statement about phase 4 is simply not true. To say that "[the multiverse] is a key element of most, if not all of phase 4" forgets about Black Widow, Shang Chi, Eternals, Love & Thunder, Wandavision, Falcon & the Winter Soldier, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye, She Hulk, and Moon Knight.
No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Loki, and What If? are the only phase 4 pieces focused on the multiverse so far. All other "multiverse connections" have been misguided fan predictions assuming a multiversal tie in (Mighty Thor, White Vision etc) A more apt statement would be that phase 4 is about what lies beyond this physical realm- whether another universe, afterlife, or pocket realm.
I think another of its problems (aside from plot holes and inconsistencies) is it’s TV shows. Wandavision and Loki are great, but a lot of what’s going to happen in the future is being set up in the TV shows, which not everyone has the time to watch. Before you could binge watch the MCU before a big movie or just brush up quickly on the stories but now only the most dedicated of people will actually watch and understand everything. They’re introducing too much too fast, and that would be a problem even if the movies were good. But it’s an even bigger problem because most of Phase 4 is mediocre save for a few good shows or movies.
Honestly, thats their fucking problem. I work 10-15 hour days driving to construction sites carrying 50 pounds cement bags of flights of stairs all day and I am all caught up. If I can manage it, they can.
Exactly! Like the tv shows were a great concept for during Covid lockdown times. Everyone was at home and no one wanted to go to the theaters. But now lockdowns are over. People don’t have time to stay home and watch tv.
@@CaseNumber00 It's entertainment people can enjoy in their free time. They can watch when they have the chance or just not watch it if they feel like it is "homework." It isn't bad because there is more of it and I feel having more hasn't really changed the quality all that much like many try to claim.
@@tuffdude7795 Of course, but its tantamount to bitching about a movie not making sense after only seeing Part 2 of a franchise. Its fine watching the movie, no ones stopping you, but you made the decision to watch this media then get mad and publicly complain about it because you dont understand and watching the other material in the franchise that chronologically takes place before this media, which will most surely answer and solve you problems, but wont because it is too inconvenient for you. The problem is not the media or the franchise, its you. The real problem here is people are getting mad at everyone and everything else where they are the problem. It sucks you dont have the time but dont be blaming others and make excuse. You say its HW but, no one ever made it so, it wasnt designed to act like one. What you are doing is packaging the inconvenience into another form, faulty logic- a strawman, and attacking it as the excuse and reason for being mad at the media and doing more effort to watch it. You missed the bus. You missed the train. They leave at set time, announcements for the shows or movies come out weeks or months in advance, and you missed the train. Taking a step back, its not the trains or conductors fault you missed it, its you. You got caught up for a moment walking out the door, forgot your keys, and had to walk back, left the trash cans behind your care, its ultimately your fault. You lie to yourselves, "its not MY fault I didnt watch the show or movie, they just make too many media for me to follow". Instead of fucking around with me in the comments, use that time to watch the other content.
@@CaseNumber00 My comment was agreeing with you. I don't see it as homework. I was saying that if people do think it is homework maybe they don't enjoy this franchise and should stop watching it. You are absolutely right that if you don't watch the prequels to what you are currently watching it isn't the current movie's fault it is yours.
Is this whole video ultimately about the plots of phase 4 being dull? Because that's literally the complaint everyone had about the plots in phases 1-3. So by that synopsis, Marvel is honestly staying true to form. The only reason people are as disappointed as they are is because Thanos raised the stakes (storytelling wise) and now we're back to garden variety Marvel writing.
No? He explains how they’ve been misusing the multiverse in several movies and that its kind of become an overused trope in every movie since it was introduced
@@theRagingGlory the end result being dull, stakes-less movies.
Thank you
@@PhelesDragon I don't see anyone complaining phase1-3 plot who were big mcu fans , but this phase 4 even a big mcu fan like me are complaining about plot , writing , cgi , direction bcuz it is really bad ,
phase 1-3 was criticized only by those who didn't liked mcu but those who loved it we mcu fans rarely criticized it , only once in a while with few movies but phase 4 even as a fan I can say most of the content are shit.
You didn't watch the video
I’m gonna wait until after the Multiverse Saga is completely finished to make any judgments. I do understand what you’re saying here though, as this is based on what’s been released so far
It's ok to be skeptical because from what they have released so far ... It has been terrible and full of plotholes.
Damn, the Marvel movies are really expensive ads to sell toys...
They definitely feel that way.
That's how most franchises work. Star Wars merchandise makes 4 times as much money as their movies. Batman merchandise makes 3 times as money as their movies. Spider-Man makes twice as much from merchandise as movies. Dragonball makes about 1.5 times from merchandise as from their mangas and anime combined.
Werewolf by Night is about to be so iconic!!! 🌕🐺
Time travel and multiverse stories in a medium meant to last longer than a short amount of time usually destroys the franchise employing them, at least for me. As was alluded to in the video, they become cheap plot devices used to remove all stakes, allows actors to play alternate (and usually boring) versions of their characters, bring back dead characters, and just generally dilute the importance of the universe we are inhabiting as readers\viewers.
I was hesitant when the MCU introduced the multiverse for these reasons. I thought maybe they wouldn't fall into that trap, but I knew better. The absurdity of the stories from the comics in this regard should have removed any uncertainty I had.
The only show or movie I have seen where the multiverse has been done well (again, to my tastes) is Fringe. It didn't suffer from most of the issues I outlined or that were discussed in the video. There were real stakes, actions mattered, and consequences were real and persistent.
Also they ruined how Infinity stones are supposed to work. Since nothing by any means can destroy them. And even if they are, the universe will die with it.
I still prefer the MCU to be Earth 199999 or Earth 616 B because I usually associate Earth 616 with the comic universe. It makes it less confusing.
I feel like Marvel’s preoccupation with trying to make each new project the “next big thing” is really starting to take away from its storytelling. Every new movie (Eternals, no way home, Dr strange, etc.) features some new cataclysmic universe or multiverse-ending event, which 1. Makes the stakes of each new event seem less comparatively impressive and 2. Takes away from the exploration of each individual character, since they have to spend so much time on the buildup for destroying the world, then saving it again. It is getting very frustrating to watch.
I’m just now watching this & Johnathan Majors is in trouble . I can see the entire cinematic universe taking a 360 now😩
My problem with Phases 4-6 (not that i saw any films from said phases, except No Way Home) is that there’s really no incentive for me to watch them, especially after Endgame’s well… ending
“No Way Home” is the best thing about phase 4…
But it at the cost of making a lot of the characters looking insanely stupid ..
I watched endgame like 3-4 times, and I still don’t understand what exactly happened to Cap
What do you dont understand?
Exactly?
He stayed in one of the alternate timelines that he went to to return the stones (most likely when he returned the tesseract that they took from the 1970s) with Peggy Carter until she passed away, at which point he used the pym particles that were for his return journey to come back.
The most "confusing" part is that he doesn't reappear back on the pad he was supposed to, which doesn't really get explained beyond a throwaway line about "blowing past his time stream" or something. You can chalk that up to cinematic license, since the reveal of Old Man Cap on the bench is more dramatic than him appearing on the pad.
@@DLTyrus
he never used the suit again thats why he didnt reappear.
So why and how was he able to "come back"?
He didnt...he has always been there...
The moebius strip explains it... time cant be changed everything happened how it was supposed to happen...
So when captain america was fighting aliens in NY there was already an old Steve Rogers somewhere out there waiting for his moment to come...
@@cmbaz1140 I mean, why he popped up on the bench, and not in his suit on that specific area with which he went, like the avengers did after time heist
MCU has already peaked and is now in a steady decline in quality.
What they need is a minimum 2 year moratorium on superhero content. It's too much of it being made.
No one is making you watch it. I mean, you didn't even need to watch this video.
Agreed. So much content, too little time to breath
@@chasehedges6775 why are you commenting everywhere like a pathetic asshole cheap attention seeking bot account !Fuck off pathetic asshole !
@@kevinmckenna5682 ok fanboi. Go drink your soy.
Seriously, is it that hard to give an opposing opinion without some suburbanite neckbeard getting offended? Check your privilege. And no, I haven't watched any superhero movies since Wonder Woman, but then again I actually have a life
@@kevinmckenna5682 What kind of argument is that? It's clear that the non-stop churning out content is causing a serious decline in quality.
I just don't know what they're building towards anymore. Before Infinity war, we knew what was coming, it was over a decade in the making and the payoff was immense.
But now? What's the point of all of this? They're not building towards anything to look forward to, and they seem to just be continuing with all these projects just because they know they'll biring in the money, not because there's a story they want to tell, and that's not even saying anything about the VFX downgrades and the way they overwork the artists and push out these shows and movies at breakneck pace.
Also why does every character need to be iron man now? Making quips and jokes at every turn, it feels like nothing of consequence or anything serious or permanent can happen anymore. Everything needs to be for laughs, not taken seriously, or looked at through a lense of irony. As much as I love iron mans sarcasm and humor, when EVERYONE does it, it really loses its punch.
No way home kind of felt like the perfect sendoff to what phases 1-3 were building. Now? Just feels hollow.
Theyre leading to secret wars, they just announced that. Not only that, but people have been speculating a lot for years about the direction in which theyre headed. With patience, the pay off will come and it will be epic. Thank you for tuning into today’s short TED talk.
@@iampulkit who cares about secret wars though? Its just going to be another recreation of infinity war, but even less stakes this time, somehow
@@TakeAStabProductions well i guess we’ll have to wait and watch, abt another 1000 days lol
Just wait till phase 6 ends & you'll get your answer. It's upto you whether you're interested or not as simple as that.
I get why people say Endgame should've been the end (i don't really agree to that but it's understandable) but No Way Home being the end? What? Seriously??☠️☠️☠️
@@Indeeee yea, agree. theres no need to see absolutely every project they make, just see the ones ur interested in. i think Secret Invasion is the most promising upcoming show
Gee... can't collapse in on itself until it's no longer needed. That's a rather roundabout way of saying the status quo will remain what it is until it changes. This isn't some "problem" unique to the MCU's use of a multiverse, this is just literally what any long running franchise ever does.
I wondered why all of Wanda’s character development was thrown out in Dr. Strange 2. It makes sense if it was meant to come first, not third.
The low budget Ultraman franchise can handle and balance the way they use the multiverse better than the million dollar marvel franchise. What a joke lmao. Disney isn’t even making effort
Concept Of Multiverse Is Fascinating.
I Watched 'Everything Everywhere All At Once' last Week An It Was Amazing
I think these woes, brought on by introducing time travel, first showed themselves in even Endgame.
By going back in time and fighting a pre-Infinity War version of Thanos, they inadvertently got rid of all the character/development that had made one of the most popular villains. They went from “Thanos, from Infinity War!” to “a big muscley guy that wants to, you guessed it, kill everyone.”
After watching Dr Strange 2, that had me thinking about Endgame. I know 2012 Loki caused a branched timeline but what about 2014 because Gamora is in our universe so would that cause a incursion?
Nope
Look, I don't expect Secret Wars to be where this is all headed...
but I really need a Secret Wars-esque event to put a cap on this whole multiverse idea permanently.
using the bifrost as an example of skybeams is a bit of a stretch given that it's a completely separate plot device that is more thoroughly explained and consistent across movies. also, that one guy being beamed up in Infinity War also hardly counts, since it's an outlier from every other example.
I told my husband I am exhausted of the MCU. Its not worth my time anymore
I've skipped so many phase 4 shows and the Eternals, it's not even about keeping up with the plot any more because that trick has gotten old, Disney movies and shows need to step up their game period.
When did marvel ever needed to step up exactly ?LMAO !🤣🤣
@@fahimalfaisal7781 ever since the Boys and Invincible took the spotlight
@@ardent835 took the spotlight ?When ?How ?From the biggest movie franchise in the world ?On twitter ?UA-cam ?Seriously ?Thats it ?Biggest joke of the century !Like it’s not even funny !LMAO !🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@fahimalfaisal7781 the biggest joke of the century is She Hulk twerking, Ms Marvel existing, Thor Love and Thunder wasting Gorr, Dr Strange 2 being mediocre and The Eternals being a borefest so take your fanboy goggles off before making a fool out of yourself.
@@ardent835 She-Hulk twerking is PERFECTLY in line with She-Hulk as a character ,she’s whacky ,silly and absurd ,Ms.Marvel is simply amazing I as a Muslim is extremely proud of it ,the way it celebrated the South Asian and Muslim culture and Iman Vellani is simply charming as Kamala ,so proud it is getting a second season !Thor 2 had Gorr the right amount of time ,as he was sympathetic father and menacing ,screen time doesn’t matter ,he was incredible ,MOM was simply amazing ,it showed progress for Strange and Wanda finally releasing her corruption of the Darkhold ans sacrificing herself !Only a brain dead ,devoid of any brain cells pathetic asshole would call Eternals a borefest ,the philosophical themes and meanings were incredible ,I can go on and on with how Eternals was amazing with all its deep themes and there was no villain in the movie ,just different people with different motives ,it’s not called fanboy !Its called speaking facts and doing research which you severely lack but yet still shoving your ass here to argue with your baseless and worthless piece of trash ,and trying too hard !Good luck !Do better next time !LMAO !🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
6:02 Literally a montage which is even more frustrating 😤
Hmmm I think the best movie of Phase 4 is possibly Shang-Chi, just a simple origin story done well, but overall most of the movies have been entertaining
You bugging
Yeah agreed. Shang-Chi was by far my favourite movie, and I really enjoyed Ms Marvel & Moon Knight which again, pretty simple origin stories!
I absolutely loved Spider-Man no way home it's a miracle that Disney, Marvel and Sony were able to make that movie as great as it is
Shang-Chi also has a multiverse theme
Shang Chi is ok but it's corny, safe and often boring. Multi of madness was wayyy more creative and interesting.
7:53 I could see Rama-Tut playing a role in the next Moon Knight season quite nicely if they do!
It's exciting for those who reads the comic books, but for the rest of us who knows nothing about it, couldn't care less about the comic books and just wants to see the movies, it's hard to be able to enjoy it. The quality of the movies alone didn't meet the expectations so far and now there's tv series's too? And if we don't watch this or that we wouldn't know what's going on?
I may be remembering this wrong but the MCU i know was not nearly as complicated as the ones we're seeing right now.
I just find it so strange that they named the MCU universe 616 when the whole point of the different numbers is to distinguish which one's different and the MCU is truly different from the comic 616, I think they should have just gave it a different number and mentioned 616 as another version
No Feige called it 616 ,IT WILL BE 616 !
EXACTLY! I've been saying this since Far From Home. Its so infuriating imo.
@@gspanzer3226 no it’s not !
They did. It's Earth-1999999. Writers of MoM screwed up like they did with the rest of the movie.
@@scyfon 💯💯
5:53 Okay the green and red reversed is likely a reference to the TV show Sliders, a show about traveling to other dimensions. Where in which the first one: Mexico was complaining about Americans crossing the southern border illegally, everyone is worried about global cooling, Elvis is alive, the protagonist’s mom is married to their gardener and pregnant, and finally the stop lights are reversed
They totally mixed the ideas a multiple universes and multiple timelines.
I really hope they get it together cuz at one point I thought they couldn’t miss. Spider-Man, Loki and what if been my favorite of phase 4
Making alternate timelines and alternate universes as the same thing screws up the concept as a whole imo..confusing as heck
It’s crazy how fast they made me not care about movies that I wouldn’t have missed for anything just five years ago
Yeah I agree with this top comment, the multiverse is definitely a complex area that no amount of movies could explain if your trying to keep it realistic, like in my option they should of just brought up multiverse then just mainly focused on another time line and did a whole another phase on that
Phase 4 has been the narrative de-escalation (the same thing that happens after a major comic arc) of Endgame while building up to Secret Wars (a bigger event), which needs more character development and more world building. If you can’t explain the Multiverse in one movie or show, it shows how much thought has gone into it. Trying to recreate Phases 1-3 will be a disaster (other studios have tried). Phase 2 directly talked about the stones & introduced Thanos. Phase 3 introduced the most characters. Phase 4 is introducing characters and doing more world building (The public, Agatha, SWORD, Monica Rambeau, White Vision, Scarlet Witch, The Darkhold, Sam Captain America, Torres Falcon, Power Broker, US Agent, Valentina, TVA, Variants, Void, Kang, Loki, Yelena, Black Widows, Red Guardian, Iron Maiden, Taskmaster, Dreykov, Russia, Red Room, What If?, San Francisco, Shang-Chi, Katie, Ten Rings, Xialing, Ta Lo, Great Protector, Eternals did a ton of world building, Arishem, Tiamut, Mockingbird, Kate Bishop, Tracksuit Mafia, Swordsman, Kingpin, Echo, Steven Grant/Marc Spector/Jake Lockley, Egyptian Gods, Scarlet Scarab, Avatars, Illuminati, America Chavezz, Book of Vishanti, Eye of Agamotto, Clea, Ms Marvel, Kamran, Bruno, Red Dagger, ClanDestines, Veil of Shadows, the Bangles, The Noor Dimension, The Mighty Thor, Zeus, Hercules, Eternity, Love, New Asgard, Valhalla, She-Hulk, Intellegencia, Todd, Light Elves, Titania, Wrecking crew, GLK/H law firm, etc;)
This was some low-tier Nerdstalgic content. Beams of light can mean different things, and aren't a 'visual shorthand'.
I absolutely loved Loki and Spider-Man no way home and I really enjoyed doctor strange 2
Great video.
I miss the days when The MCU was just about a group of metahumans working together to stop an alien from destroying the universe. Now it's just a Marvel themed Rick N Morty.
I didn’t realize that the skybeam was a cliche
The concept the multiverse is fine and doesn't need to stop it just needs good rules surrounding it and not to be used poorly and or abused. Permanent Resurrection should be banned and temporary resurrections should only last very very briefly and be written in a very meaningful way with the characters that they had the strongest relationship with in an exploration of those emotions and that relationship. If showing alternate versions of our characters it should be to explore them as characters and show us more about the characters that we already have and invest us further in the story of their character progression and mental journey. No retcons, things like that.
Because personally this video reads like "some people are bad decisions so we need to kill every last human. Some books are poorly written so we need to burn all the books."
Just because the concept is being misused doesn't mean it's inherently bad and needs to be stopped. That's just dramatic and lacking in nuance
It's kind of ironic isn't it?
The bigger the stakes the less we care about them.
Oh the multiverse is threatened? Ok.
I felt more connected to the characters in Civil War than I did in whatever multiverse thing their doing. The stakes felt meaningful; something that would have a tangible affect on the characters going forward.
Sure a multiverse is big, but between, anime, manga, the stuff I've seen online from comics, and now the MCU, I'm getting kind of sick of "oh no the multiverse is in danger because so and so has the power to destroy 5 quadrillion universes by just breathing.
One of the reasons I stopped reading DC and Marvel was partially because of the whole multiverse stuff. Sometimes it can be good but eeeh a lot of times it's a miss for me. It's why, usually, I prefer the more self-contained stories in Marvel or DC comics because for every good use like in spiderverse you have a dozen of terrible uses like cop outs for character deaths - and it becomes worse when you add time travel into the mix. Seeing it being brought to the MCU as a focus is kinda dissapointing for me; having spare uses isn't necesarily bad but when it's the whole focus it's usually kinda dissapointing as far I had seen
With all this Multiverse stuff, we need someone in a movie to clarify everything and give us us some rules, what can happen, what will happen and what are the stakes. However saying that, at this point in time from what has been released, its a little too early for that to be explained in context of what stories and over reaching plot there is. Its really frustrating dealing with irl time, like 20 months since Loki introduced timelines, and with only like limit release 4-5 pieces of media of 90 minutes went on too add to it, I have to take a step back to consider it takes $150 million and a million man hours to make one movie. However, I was hoping Dr. S 2 to outline the multiverse, but nope.
Best TV show for me was Hawkeye and best movie was, well I can't decide between Shang Chi and Love and Thunder. But one thing these all have in common are the stakes were personal, not world or multiverse ending (I'm ignoring the shoehorned in giant sky monster battle in Shang Chi - that movie was about family). Build characters we care about and personal or "lower stakes" can be even more satisfying
Skybeam: (cough cough) the Flash TV show
Feels like they just made single movies and will try to tie them together later. There's no connecting nor consequences for the multiverse so far
Where did the spiderman vs spidermans scene come from at 6:42 ?
In my opinion, the problem is that there are no stakes. No character's death holds any power, because they can be brought back. Even Black Widowdoesn't feel final, especially after the cartoon where she winds up the only one left alive in her universe, and could easily be brought over to ours.
I'm enjoying it all. Bring on more of the same please.