The Multiverse Problem
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2023
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The multiverse has very quickly gone from a relatively niche concept mostly used in comics and TV specials, into an incredibly overused trope that not many people seem to be using the full potential of and choosing to settle for safe mediocrity. Let's discuss.
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Ok
No
L
(get that bag tho)
Incorrect. Brave is the right answer here. Where my Brave gamg at?
@@kyperactiveright here my boi
My mom explained it beautifully , when the multiverse became popular in comics she stopped reading comics because she would need to read and buy entire series of comics to get the backstory behind every crossover event, and it wasn’t worth it.
Your mom is an absolute legend 🗿
I'm sorry say this but you're mom is full of shit lmao the mutiverse wasn't used for crossovers back in the day and unless you're talking about secret wars well that was completely explained it never used any version of characters we haven't seen. Crossover comics were mainly what if storylines marvel literally made sure if it was mutiverse related you would have to go out of your way to realize it so either your mom had no idea what she was buying or she's buying modern comics because I assure you it wasn't nearly as confusing as it is today
Your mom is an absolute legend 🗿
I don't wanna sound negative but multiverse are free for all for writers
Wow. Does your Mom read comics or manga or something?
The problem isn't the multiverse. It's bad writing.
@@mintmess Both usages are awful
The problem with the multiverse is that the use of it we mostly see today _lends itself_ to bad writing.
@@bjornskividsLearn what an opinion is
I respectfully disagree. My issue with multiverse stories is that it essentially means nothing matters because there's literally an infinite number of universes.
I'm okay with it if it's set apart from the main universe but just hate when it becomes a story where multiple universes start colliding into each other.
@@MoodKapProductions
That’s how I feel honestly. Makes me feel like Owl Man the more I think about the idea of a multiverse.
I really think invincible season 2 was a victim of unfortunate timing. It’s exactly where the plot was going, and needed to go into the multiverse to continue the story, but it was exactly during the time where everybody else was doing it
it also doesn't rlly help that the biggest reason why (i think) the whole multiverse thing in invincible worked so well in its story, is likely not gonna be premiering in season 2 but rather in season 3 (at least not the best parts of it) If you know, you know, i shall not spoileth it. however on the brightside, the wait for season 3 wont be as long as season 2 was (they were greenlit at the same time and are/were produced at the same time) unless it does show up theennn idk lol
yeah the multiverse was in the comics
It’s unfortunate because invincible did some creative stuff with the multiverse plot.
The multiverse was actually handled very well though, who cares what other media is doing
To be honest Invincible was also a victim of the multiverse issue in comic books, except they made it important instead of just use it as a way to have quick saves. So yeah, in a way, it's a roundabout issue that started plagued comics and then its adaptations
The multiverse as a concept can work but it is something that should be used very sparingly, mainly for “what-if?” scenarios or a special crossover event like how early comics used to do before it was overused.
Once it becomes the main focus, it’s hard to get invested at that point as it feels like nothing matters in the grand scheme of things.
I fully agree with this
I disagree. I think multiverse stories are the best when they avoid what-if altogether, like Half-Life where other dimensions are very alien.
The movie justice league: crisis on 2 earths actually deals with the concept of multiversal nihilism really well, hell owlman (the main villain) literally wants to destroy all universes because in his eyes, nothing matters if there are a hundred versions of of everyone.
@@Gnidel If I'm not wrong, the idea you're expressing is what I call the "Wonderland Multiverse," like the first _Doctor Strange_ (which unlike the sequel did not show any other human realms, simply increasingly weird and almost psychedelic realms) and obviously the namesake, _Alice in Wonderland._
I agree, to a certain extent. I think the DC Comics approach was very good (until the heroes broke the multiverse, meaning there are infinite Earths again), that being that there were 52 universes and each of them were significantly different, sitting alongside many supernatural realms.
Marvel's approach, both in the comics and the films, of seemingly pretending to follow many-worlds interpretation, made the universes both too similar and too different. To take an example, there should be an infinite number of universes where Peter Parker is Spider-man, and an infinite number of universes where there is no Spider-man, not an infinite number of strange Spider-men (and look, knowing that fact did not prevent me from enjoying the _Spider-Verse_ films, I was just using it to prove a point), because of the number of incredibly specific events that lead to Peter Parker becoming Spider-man.
I like mirror universes, especially when it’s a special event and a visitor from the main universe gets to interact with everyone. The idea is just cool on its own. An inverted universe where good guys are bad and bad guys are good. But there’s also the interactions and nuance in how you can do it.
How does the visitor react to their friends being evil? How does the visitor interact with their mortal enemies turned heroes? Are the mirrored characters direct inversions of their personalities? (A cowardly character now has no fear). Or are their personalities the same but their morality is swapped? (A cowardly character is still cowardly but evil). So much cool crap involved.
I wish companies were more willing to do simple stories like that rather than making it out to be something bigger. It doesn’t always need to part of a web; maybe it’s just a cool look at what’s behind the mirror.
I think the main reason why so many franchises are trying their hand at multiverse story lines is because of the success of spider verse. Now everyone is trying to copy the style of spider verse without realizing what made it as popular as it is, it's phenomenal storytelling and stylized aesthetic.
It's because they're full of lousy writers who need a gimmick to glue their badly written plot-points together.
Multiverse means canon isn't important anymore.
At least it starded with Marvel to be fair because of the connected universe.
I would add no way home to that as well, everyone was talking that movie
It started long before Spiderman
@@zjuraeventide8949 That’s true but you can’t deny it’s more of the more popular multiverse storylines
Rick and Morty addressed one of the main drawbacks of the multiverse in the episode that introduced it. As soon as Morty finds out about it, he says, "Gee, this makes all our adventures seem kinda meaningless, doesn't it?" The show understands that adding multiverses lowers the stakes, but its response is a nihilistic "so what?" The worst series are the ones that have no answer to Morty's question, and just hope you won't ask it.
I feel the opposite. I care about the universe and characters I've spent years getting invested in. Why should anyone care about the other universes?
WHAT ABOUT THE UNIVERSE WHERE HITLER CURES CANCER MORTY the answer is DINT THINK ABOUTIT
I love how Ben 10 Omniverse did its multiverse. Each Ben from their own dimension has their own Omnitrix, Alien Forms, Names, Backstories. And it was the big focus for like 5 separate episodes. In and out fun dimension adventures.
God I love Ben 10 but did you see how they massacred my boy alien x in the reboot 😭
"big focus for like 5 separate episodes." - that's weird because I only remember the blue Ben one.
@@falendemo546there was also the event with the watch-less Ben which iirc lasted two episodes and included many Ben variants as well as a version of that one Gwen from the original series who got the Omnitrix. Vilgax sets of a bomb that erases all the bens except no-watch Ben, so he travels through time and across timelines with Professor Paradox to fix it and bring them back.
Also every time Ben meets his future self across the franchise they become separate timelines.
The original series is a separate universe to AF and UA they diverge sometime around when people found out Ben’s real identity.
@@WSendamdont forget about how they did rex and bobo
@falendemo546 and there's the one where blue Ben and normal Ben go to mad max Ben's universe
South Park Into The Panderverse ranting about how lazy the multiverse has become to excuse lazy writing………thank you Matt and Trey for that.
Ironically, there's a universe where the Multiverse trend never happened... Anyone wants to go there?
Yes
I kinda hope so, I just wish there was a story with a universe that had many galaxies that were explored individually with their own unique races/species/environments/geographies/topography/political systems, societies, demographics, economics, militaries, philosophies, skin tones/colours, biology/physiologies/biochemistries, geopolitics/states or polities e.g. spacefaring civilizations, one planet-bound empires, and complex farming societies/chiefdoms and /simple farming societies to nomadic pastoralists/semi-nomadic pastoral peoples managing herds of livestock for example and hunter-gatherers, different kinship structures/family systems, numeral systems, prehistories/protohistories, legends & mythologies, cuisines, foreign relations (international relations), technologies, evolutionary processes, states of matter too maybe, languages/writing systems, weather/climates, fashion, cultures, art, architecture, borders, coinage, moons (natural satellites), ethnic groups/multi-component clusters of various communities - e.g. see the Rajputs of IRL South Asia, languages, planets, and stars instead of just a ''multiverse with an infinite amount of universes, -sized dimensions, infinite universes, etc so and so forth'' or hell, just have a galaxy and explore it's contents instead. I mean galaxies in real life have billions of planets and stars that could be utilized really well in fiction but alas........
i would go at least it would be more better then the reality we're currently in now.
100,000,000,000,000 IQ. Smart saying Jodipo!
No
I think the South Park Panderverse made it abundantly clear as to what’s wrong with most of these Multiverse Stories.
They’re just being Lazy by trying to substitute writing down a new characters and narratives by instead hijacking already existing stories or just making palette swaps
panderverse sounds like it talks alot about problems of the modern age of everything
for real. When I saw atman 3 in the theater and saw 1000 Kangs at the end of the movie I just got mad. Because it completely erases any stakes of the movie if your villain can just "respawn at any time"
@@mariasol1545But, isn't that the point of Kang? He keeps losing and coming back. I know that this isn't a good start for a big bad villain.
just wish there was a story with a universe that had many galaxies that were explored individually with their own unique races/species/planets and stars instead of just a ''multiverse with an infinite amount of universes, so and so forth'' or hell, just have a galaxy and explore it's contents instead. I mean galaxies in real life have billions of planets and stars that could be utilised really well in fiction but alas........
i love how superhero movies fan just discorvered the whole multiverse thing and it's super confusing to them while in comics it's been this way since years and like 10 times more complicated
Bro trying to explain the beginning of the main marvel universe is already a pain,let alone trying to explain that 616 is the fourth universe and not the first one to exist. Explaining multiple universes and how some just merge makes it worse
It's been awful ever since Marvel stated they were going "shared universe".
I was against that change when they announced it 20+ years ago
Hell, remember when we needed videos explaining what the ending of Bioshock infinite was?
Now we can just say Comstock was a variant of Booker and that the lighthouse and the city are cannon events of all worlds
@@jfoster8624for real thou
And it also sucks :D
My problem with the multiverse, especially in superhero films, is how safe they are utilized. Like you mean to tell me, in a multuverse of infinite possibilities, you guys choose to only include worlds where things are just slightly different? Damn, the creativity, the genius.
Also they seem to include the multiverse not because they have a really good story to tell about it, but just so they can shoe horn in manufactured nostalgia. Unlike in Spiderverse where we see a vast array of Spider People, in No Way Home and No Way Home we only see the stuff that wete done before and brought back for nostalgia. Like no fucking shot all of No Way Home's villains kust happened to be from the Toby and Andrew movies. Like at least have 1 or 2 villains that are from a unique property. Or that in the Flash we get the Man of Steel Zod with the OG Burton Batman where it made no sense how that happened.
Let's be real tho nwh would blow ass if the villains were random people cosplaying as Spiderman villains yes they reused the actors but they fixed some of them and even expanded on the good ones electro being the obvious one fixed and goblin and doc ock being expanded on its nostalgia bait but a least effort was put into it unlike Dr strange mutiverse of madness
@@jfoster8624nah fuck NWH ruined any potential tom had a spiderman just for a cash grab
Fortnite did multiverse the best, they dont limit themselves at all.
Even the Universes where [Random artist] is LITERALLY GOD
In No Way Home's example, I like to think of it as we just happened to have movies on the Spiderman universes that did happen to cross over.
There's 0 point in adding another villain who we know nothing about for the sake of, well nothing. The movie had enough characters to work with
@@jfoster8624 I'm not daying all of them should have been randos, but have at least 1 new guy. Like you're telling me they couldn't replace Lizard with another villain? Who is gonna complain if Lizard was instead a Kraven, Rhino, or Scorpion variant? Hell have it be a Mysterio or Vulture variant so that we can have fun interaction with MCU Peter talking with variants of villains he has defeated.
I think the Spider-Verse films showcases an example of how to properly interrogate the multiverse like you can have it there, but don't use it too much that it sidelines it's narratives and characters.
Also, Fionna and Cake is also a perfect examples of this too
Timestamps:
5:54 Rick & Morty
7:09 Spiderverse
8:42 The MCU (after Endgame)
12:22 The Flash
16:12 Sonic Prime (Now it´s getting interesting)
17:17 Adventure Time: Fionna and Cake
What about the #Arrowverse??? ua-cam.com/video/wBpej4q5IKU/v-deo.htmlsi=QFzjf-POr3Wiio1x
I think the Henry Stickmin games did a pretty good job with the concept, as there's a finite amount of universes/timelines based on the outcomes of the choices that Henry made. Shame to see most other franchises fumble the bag hard since I think the concept itself could lead to some great alternative scenarios and different character development.
henry stickmin is a more chose your or story kind of game not a multiverse game, snowdrop escape would be consider as a such but its more vague.
I find it funny how a game about stickmen doing stupid crap to get some objective done has better storytelling than modern MCU movies
Honestly I'm just sorta tired of protecting the multiverse being the story of these movies. It often just becomes about showing off gimmicky variations of characters than just having a whole story about those variations. I'm not tired of different universe versions of characters, I'm tired of the formula.
That’s what I loved about Fionna and Cake. It wasn’t about “protecting the multiverse,” just about keeping the group alive while being hunted, and getting them back home.
@@dx.feelgood5825 they did a really good job with it tbh, its an exploration not into how quirky and different the worlds are, but how different the main cast is to the base adventure time cast, fionna and cake argue frequently whereas finn and jake are basically a hero hivemind, ice king is a goofy weirdo with a sad back story whereas simon is a depressed old man with slightly goofy moments tossed at him.
@@BitrateBilly I loved it. Every universe was essentially showing Simon how each world is different because of how he personally affected it. He stopped the bomb, so Finn became IK. He forced his madness onto PB, so he became a psychopath. He wasn’t there to raise Marceline, so she turned out as an evil vampire, etc. and it culminates with Betty making him understand that he wasn’t the best partner, but they’ve made their choices and that she doesn’t regret falling in love with him. It’s all important character development for Simon. He goes from depressed and obsessed with getting Betty back, in denial of everything, to finally accepting the change and letting himself breathe and open up about his feelings and stopping his living in the past
It’s such a fantastic take on the multiverse and I adore it. The show is oozing with heart and charm
Yeah, this is why I think the Spiderverse films are one of the select few that actually get it right. Especially the second one.
Those films use the idea of alternate variations of Spiderbeings to do a really clever meta commentary on the inevitability of their outcomes, tying together a sort of fatalistic narrative, while using it to enhance the story of our main protagonist Miles in contrasting his journey to handle all the responsibilities being thrown in his face with those of the other variations he encounters.
yeah...I just wish there was a story with a universe that had many galaxies that were explored individually with their own unique races/species/environments/geographies/topography/political systems, societies, demographics, economics, militaries, philosophies, skin tones/colours, biology/physiologies/biochemistries, geopolitics/states or polities e.g. spacefaring civilizations, one planet-bound empires, and complex farming societies/chiefdoms and /simple farming societies to nomadic pastoralists/semi-nomadic pastoral peoples managing herds of livestock for example and hunter-gatherers, different kinship structures/family systems, numeral systems, prehistories/protohistories, legends & mythologies, cuisines, foreign relations (international relations), planetary systems, technologies, evolutionary processes, states of matter too maybe, languages/writing systems, weather/climates, fashion, cultures, religions, atmospheric pressures/temperatures, flags and heraldry, art, architecture, borders, coinage, moons (natural satellites), ethnic groups/multi-component clusters of various communities - e.g. see the Rajputs of IRL South Asia, languages, planets, and stars instead of just a ''multiverse with an infinite amount of universes, -sized dimensions, infinite universes, etc so and so forth'' or hell, just have a galaxy and explore it's contents instead. I mean galaxies in real life have billions of planets and stars that could be utilized really well in fiction but alas........
I genuinely think the best medium for the multiverse is animation, but the live action ordeal is souring things as a whole. I think video games could handle it amazingly too, but I think we have yet to see that happen. Yet.
Good point
This tbh
you sure putting multiverses in the animation medium is a good idea?
To me parallel worlds is better. Sure have the same seats and roles but make it interesting. I think the sonic rush games make for a good simple example.
Watching people going insane over multiverses and me being a comic fan is just like: first time?
I know, right?
Yeah...I just wish there was a story with a universe that had galaxies that were explored individually with their own unique races/species/environments/geographies/topography/political systems, societies, demographics, economics, militaries, philosophies, skin tones/colours, biology/physiologies/biochemistries, geopolitics/states or polities e.g. spacefaring civilizations, one planet-bound empires, and complex farming societies/chiefdoms and /simple farming societies to nomadic pastoralists/semi-nomadic pastoral peoples managing herds of livestock for example and hunter-gatherers, different kinship structures/family systems, numeral systems, prehistories/protohistories, legends & mythologies, cuisines, foreign relations (international relations), technologies, evolutionary processes, states of matter too maybe, languages/writing systems, weather/climates, fashion, cultures, art, architecture, borders, coinage, moons (natural satellites), ethnic groups/multi-component clusters of various communities - e.g. see the Rajputs of IRL South Asia, languages, planets, and stars instead of just a ''multiverse with an infinite amount of universes, -sized dimensions, infinite universes, etc so and so forth'' or hell, just have a (1) galaxy alone and explore it's contents instead. I mean galaxies in real life have billions of planets and stars that could be utilized really well in fiction but alas........
Steel Ball Run probably had the best implementation of the multiverse I've seen.
Especially towards the endinh
*ending
That's just called a reboot dude
@@NeoAyai think he means D4C maybe?
@NeoAya no it occurs in a different universe
So if I understand correctly: the multiverse is better as a part of the plot rather than as some “deus ex machina” type plot device
On one hand: it could give us possible new stories and and characters
But on the other: it could be used as a sort of plot device (yes I know I said that twice)
The multiverse is always an excuse to get around logic. It's a contrivance relied upon by writers who can't write a story without a magical mcguffin and lots of plot armor.
@@bjornskivids Say that to Valve, who used the multiverse in portal.
Is it just me or is multiverse only a problem in a corporate sense?
That's how I see it. It does work for me in other series like Adventure Time, where the writers have most of the creative control, but here I can only see WB and Disney more concerned about trying to grab people's attention with flashy gimmicks.
Yeah this is exactly how I feel. It’s really not as big of a deal as people say it is. So many good multiverse stories and people only like the focus on the shitty studio mandated cash-grabs. Like no shit a movie purely made to ride on a trend is gonna be bad, it’s not the concept that sucks, it’s the studios only using it to bank of success of good movies.
@@oakleyhasafoot7878people just get tired of stuff doesn't matter if they're good or not, like something similar before people wanted interesting, complex and thought provoking villains, we got that now people are tired and want charismatic, fun, purely evil villains, or even like before the whole multiverse people were already tired of the mcu formula for movies even if they were fine they were tiring
Like for example cartoonshi says he immediately felt annoyed seeing invincible s2 was gonna be about the multiverse
Finally someone with a Brain
No, honestly just feels like an inherently bad idea.
For example, another inherently bad idea is using video game levels in a story for the setting the world is in. Well there's spins on this that work, but there's problems with taking a system to simplify abstract concepts like skills and improving as you get more familiar with work and trying to make it how the world actually works, when its only capable of being a model to approximate that.
For example, with pokemon are levels supposed to correlate with age? Is it how fit they are? But in that case leveling down would be possible as well. Also there being a level cap at 100 would be a little weird no matter how you view. The answer to all of that is its a video game and the levels are for progressing in the game itself.
I'd mention a story where they handled this idea poorly, but any story that does that I stop watching immediately because its a pet peeve of mine. Like you can make a tounge and cheek reference to it, a lot of good video games do, but levels were always a method of quantifying more abstract concepts without making sense in terms of a consistent story setting.
The thing where multiverses run aground against imo, is that they conflate an undefinable quantity with an infinity. Infinity doesn't really exist. There's always a relative value and cost that actions have and introducing a multiverse just destroys that.
I watched the Flash with my mom, and it felt so empty and convoluted we both just fell asleep from lack of interest. And the flash is one of my favorite characters in comics
Mine too
Instead of just adapting the Rogues or the real Flashpoint they decided the selling point for a Flash movie to be Batman? James Gunn fumbled the bag with the Flash film.
@Patrick-pc3vq woah woah woah, James Gunn didn't direct the flash movie, if he had it would've been an amazing movie
I managed to view Loki as a stand-alone thing which I honestly think did it REALLY well.
loki is incredible idk why he doesnt like it lol
@@astronova6150 yeah exactly- best thing to come from the MCU in ages
I think a really great multiverse story that’s often overlooked has to be Phineas and Ferb: Across the Second Dimension. Not only does it include fun interactions between different counterparts of characters, but it also develops the characters in ways that haven’t been done in the show before but make sense in the storyline. Phineas is pushed to a limit that hasn’t been explored before, and we see growth for both Perry and Doof. The best part is you don’t need to watch the entire serve first to simply enjoy it. Like Spiderverse, or even Fiona and Cake, all you really need to go into it are the basic concepts of what the og show is about. Tangent aside, THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO. Marvel’s multiverse jazz has really been mid and draining and it’s interesting to see your take on everything. Huge agree on Fiona and Cake being one of the best ways to pull off a multiverse story.
The funniest part is how simple it is too. Every single Phineas and Ferb episode, including the across the second dimension movie, follows the exact same premise. It is so stupidly simple, but it’s done well because it’s written with care.
@@shanesymington7614 Yesss for real!!
What about the TMNT tv movie Turtles Forever?
@@marioluigi3122 I adore anything TMNT so yes.
Everything and Everywhere all at Once is a great example of an Multiverse Story done Right because it's not the Main story that is the relationship between Evelyn and her daughter Jobu and a plus it's adds layers to the concept of the Multiverse questions like does you life choices have weight because it alrighty happened or what would be the point of anything that were buddhist concept of Life i think it was that Without Suffering there is no life and life can't existed without pain it's a cycle that were life in but if we can life with the pain move forward not look to the past for Comfort. ❤
Honestly Spider-Verse did the whole multiverse thing correctly cause it has a story,Miles' story,and the multiverse aspect elevated his story.
"Anyone can wear the mask" let it be an exhausted Peter Parker,the usually love interest Gwen Stacy or even a damn cartoon pig. That spider could've bitten anyone,and it bit Miles,he too is Spider-Man
On top of the fact that Spider-Verse does honestly really awesome things with the concept. It isn't just minor changes or "oh this universe go this bunch of cameos",each universe has different aesthetics and the movie takes full advantage of being an animated piece
It sparks creativity and Miles' story on its own is really good
For me personally the multiverse as a concept never really peaked my interest that much. Even in the comics like marvel or DC it kinda felt oversaturated and convoluted to me. Now it seems like every franchise is doing the multiverse concept. The only time I feel like the multiverse concept was used effectively was with the spiderverse films, everything everywhere all at once, PnF into the second dimension, and invincible. Hell even certain Godzilla comics handle the concept a little better imo.
It's a contrivance relied upon by bad writers with no consistency. It ruins stories more than chasing magical, unexplained McGuffins does
I am not going to ask how Godzilla can get into multiverse shenanigans.
@@Ijustusethistocommentstuff it’s not as complex as marvel or dc so don’t worry 😂. It more like the comics just acknowledges it’s existence yk?
@@Ijustusethistocommentstuff I mean Godzilla has been around since 1954 with multiple continuity reboots, but certain movies are canon and some arent. Theres a movie where Godzilla is a reanimated corpse with the ghosts of world war 2 soldiers reviving it. The Godzilla franchise can already be a wierd thing to get into.
@@Ijustusethistocommentstuff
I could see them trying to cross over the different eras of Godzilla (Showa, Heisei, ect).
Definitely wouldn’t be super out of place seeing how crazy the series can get.
One of my favorite things making fun of the multiverse concept is in the Panderverse episode of South Park when Randy is falling through the multiverse “tunnel” thing and he is just Randy but his outfit just keeps changing over and over. It’s such a spot on way to dunk on the lack of creativity in most multiverse stories. Like in Multiverse of Madness, a movie with multiverse in the damn title, the extent of the multiverse shenanigans is a 20 second montage of Dr. Strange and America Chavez falling through a bunch of wacky looking dimensions before landing in one where pizza is balls and red and green lights are swapped but everything else seems fundamentally the same. Like.. really Marvel? You Got Sam Raimi back to direct your movie and that’s the extent of your creativity? Woof
MY MAIN ISSUE with Multiverse Stories is how often they depict Alternate Universes more like different planets than AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE(It even gets worse when the characters can easily travel through them like its an easy task)
Facing a Doppelganger should be always very IMPACTFUL because They's not a stranger, Is basically what Your life could have been if you pic a different choice, but most of the times gets depicted as just meeting a different person instead of watching yourself making different decisions
I saw a good comparison between the Rick and Morty and dceu multiverse concept, and spider verse and everything everywhere’s version of the multiverse. It’s touted in the former as “look at how much BETTER your life is in all these other multiverses”, while in spider verse and everything everywhere they posit a better message of “look how many *versions* of you there are”
Which is a bigger difference than people think
Quick rant on Sonic Prime's take on the multiverse that wasn't mentioned:
Sonic has had so many different interpretations over the years (The DiC cartoons, the Riders & Storybook series, Sonic X & Sonic Boom) that would lend itself greatly to a series about Sonic traveling to different universes of his world.
...How did we get stuck with the most basic universe ideas with the most cookie-cutter worlds & characters?
its sad that people are disregarding EEAAO for having multiverse storytelling, despite it being my favorite film of all time!
If anything, it's been looked to as a good example because at it's core, it's against the idea that nothing can matter if there are so many paths you take in life, or using the setup merely as a means to explore a different version for marketing sake.
In Japanese hero stories like Ultraman, Rider, and Sentai, they always use the multiverse concept tastefully and while they have their faults at times, they don't ever oversaturate or beat in the fact that it's another universe and there's this massive multiverse, they're pretty chill about it and I appreciate that
Star Trek did good with the mirror verse, i especially liked the DS9 episode
The only movie where I absolutely love the use of the multi-verse besides things like Spider-verse, is Everything Everywhere All At Once. It's use of it is so unique and it's just an incredible movie.
I feel like the "Cracks in the Multiverse" became the new "Blue Sky Beam"
Sonic Prime feels like one person really loves the Sonic series, then they were told "You know that amazing nearly infinite story you pitched? Well, we have budget for like 8 characters so we're just going to make 5 outfits per character. Also, you can be on board with this limited project or we can find someone else."
Multiverse as a concept has existed for decades with DC comics being the biggest example at the time. However, I think it really caught with the mainstream after Rick & Morty and especially Spiderverse. I think the concept can be done interestingly, but I feel like it can suck when it's either introduced too soon like with MAWS, underutilized like with Sonic Prime, or just downright confusing/insulting like with a lot of the MCU or the Flash film.
Phineas and Ferb even did it in Across the Second Dimension it's not a new concept.
Michael Moorcock (yes, real last name) was doing it in the 60s and 70s. Stephen King a while later
It makes less sense the more you think about it. Honestly its kinda like the save the world plots where the scale is so meaningless it becomes worthless. The only show in recent memory that really managed to pull it off was AoT, but even then its not really the world being killed, just like 99% of the human population at risk.
Its fine if its a plot point that isn't very intrusive to a story, but I find that stories end up worse by using it as a plot point that's played straight.
@@icecreamhero2375 heck, TMNT did it back in 2009 with Turtles Forever
My Adventures with Superman had the best of the multiverse in my opinion. I like how they subverted expectations by treating a multiverse plot like a regular plot instead of making it a big crossover finale.
That's the big problem with multiverse stories these days everyone wants to make them these big epic storyline and that causes a lot of plots to feel repetitive.
A good story doesn't need a big scale it just needs things like personal steaks, a good use of a idea(s), and characters an audience can cheer for.
The main problem with multiverse story’s is that the changes between worlds is surface level like “oh this guy bad now” or “green means stop and red mean go”. Imagine a universe where gravity was very weak and species developed having sticky feet so they don’t float away and our main charters have a hard time getting around cause it’s like walking on the moon. Imagine a world we’re the sun radiates magic energy so the main character’s can’t use their magic at night and so they could get ambushed during the night or somthing. So many cool ideas can be made for this kind of story but in the multiverse of madness we get 3 New Yorks.
It's insane that both Marvel and DC have dozens of established alternate Universes they could explore, yet the only place we've seen them are in animated properties like What If.
my biggest issue of Sonic Prime (a show that i enjoy but feel very mixed on) is the VERY limited potential of the multiverse, they could've went all out beyond the Pirate, Cave, New Yok dimensions but nope thats literally all we are going to get for the 24 episode cartoon, i know that Sonic having to constantly get the trust of Same exact people but from the different world can be tiresome but the idea of having to go back to those exact dimensions and still have some conflicting problems just to pad out the runtime and episode or two is just...sigh, i dont know.
imagine if sonic prime did the multiverse thing but with stuff like classic sonic, modern sonic, boom sonic, archie sonic satam sonic
Yeah, I still enjoyed it but it was clear they didn’t put much thought into the other universes. I’m wasn’t asking for them to go with a bunch of What If scenarios or something of past games like if Shadow stayed evil or if Sonic got robotisized by the Deadly Six in Lost World but what I was asking is more creative worlds then Pirates and Cavemen, even with New Yolk it didn’t feel like they tried too much mainly because of the Chaos Council, I get they might’ve been made to each represent a part of Eggman’s personality but they didn’t need to split Eggman into 5 boring or annoying characters to do that in a universe where Sonic didn’t exist and Eggman won, I mean imagine one Emperor Eggman in New Yolk who’s like a throwback to SatAM/Archie Robotnik, that could’ve been so much better than the absolute jokes that are the Chaos Council
I can't be more thankful that I've read through Invincible before Season 2 came out, I worry that I would've been one of the people that avoided watching it from the multiverse plotline alone.
In the comic the multiverse was used to highlight how unique main timeline Mark was, as shown by the many refugee Angstrom Levys it seems that in a majority of the multiverses Mark ends up joining his father in conquering earth, so the fact main Mark chose to fight him is highlighted. Hoping the tv show adapts this plot and the development going forward well
I swear to God, if they ruined The avengers, king, dynasty, and secret wars, I’ll be so unhappy
Did you even read or do some summary reading on what the Secret Wars is? It's literally made to reboot the multiverse
Me too
Everytime I hear the Sam & Max office theme in your videos my brain goes all “WHEEEE YIPPEE!!!”
Thank you for sharing what an amazing multiverse story Fionna and Cake was.
I think what shocked me the most was that you didn't like Loki. Most people, both Marvel-fan or not, agree that Loki was incredible, especially season 2
When everything is possible, nothing truly is.
Huh?
When anything can happen, the impact of those things is reduced.
This kinda reminds me of the case where portraying a panic attack was trendy for some time because Puss in boots the last wish did it so effectively so everyone wanted to hop on the train.
I feel like its the same with alot of time-travel and future-seeing stuff...I just always end up going: "Well if person A can just do X, why didnt he just do XY to stop event Z from happening?"
a friend of mine and I keep calling The Flash, "The Flush" and I also call it "Flashpoint at home" (in other words, watch The Flashpoint Paradox, it's an infinitely better movie)
It was me Barry
2:55 this clip: *exists*
Me: *laughs in Turtles Forever*
I love how the CW show was better at writing the multiverse than the dumpster fire that was the Flash.
Ghostbusters Afterlife EARNED That Harold Ramis chameo, i dont care, it was set up the whole movie and it payed off beautifully, i cried in the theatre when all 4 of the original stood together, it felt so earned, it had a whole movie to back it up, it was a beautiful omage, i refuse to believe it was an "audience cheer" moment like the Superman one.
Yeah that's about the only digital puppeteering moment I'm okay with, PURELY because of the circumstances around it
I really hate it in almost every other way it's ben used though
11:19 Honestly surprized they didn't revise these scenes for home viewing. Of course they had the pause for applause in theatres, I tore my shirt off, howling and banged my chest like everyone else when Tobey Maguire waddled through the portal like he stumbled onto the set by mistake while out for coffee. I want to see more of him as spider-man, I just hope he has his groove back a bit more by his next outing he was really the very best spider-man.
It’s funny about the comment on sonic in the multiverse, because sonic has been using the multiverse since the original comics. And while it was also used for similar reasons of what if, and spectacles. Characters like scourge going beyond just an evil counterpart, and genuinely challenging sonic and scourge perspective on themselves was interesting.
Shrek Forever After back in 2010 did an alternate universe story better than recent films. Freaking Shrek did it better! 🤣 That’s an achievement to be recognized!
I really liked how justice league crisis on two earths handled the multiverse cause the movie is showing why Batman and owl man have contrasting personalities but damn WB really sucks now and the flash is one of the worst multiverse stories ever
I want to give real praise that I don't mean as condescending in any way: thank you so much for toning it down with the memes and the quick cuts on this one. I've watched a lot of your videos and while I do enjoy your criticism, I do tend to get exhausted when I'm seeing memes or blind-and-you-miss-it messages every 10-15 seconds. I found this one WAY easier to enjoy because the pacing was noticeably slower and easygoing. Just wanted to throw in my two cents on that, keep on keeping on.
I actually really like the jungle dimension in Sonic Prime. There's a clear effort on the part of writer's to invert the series environmentalist message. Instead of a mad scientist who's trying to pollute and roboticize nature, the antagonist is a crazy nature lover who takes it too far and starts tipping the balance to the other extreme.
And the way Sonic helps and reaches out to this character in a way that feels fitting for both his and Amy's characters is so cool to me, and evokes great scenes from other Sonic games, like the ending Black Knight.
Its not the most amazing thing ever but I appreciate the writers for having an actual understanding of the core ideas of the series.
Everything Everywhere All At Once is my favorite piece of multiverse media simply because instead of using the multiverse plot device to just expand its scope and give itself an inflated sense of scale, it used it to tell a deeply personal and intimate story about a small group of character developing in equally deeply meaningful ways.
New cartoonshi video, pog
Honestly… for how much shit Disney has been pumping out for the past few years… nothing is as bad as The Flash. The Flash is just… just… terrible. Alarmingly terrible.
Warner won't let Disney take their title for sh!ttiest superhero movies.
@@mrlaz9011 warner has the flash, disney has wish
@@saiyanscaris6530 Wish is mid,The Flash is hot garbage
as a creator, i wanna AVOID at all costs the exessive use of multiverses, on my current game im working, there's a multiverse, but inside the game it'll NEVER ever explored, just mentioned. and neither i'll do the "the same character but from another universe" coz, at least for me, it is the same thing but slightly different.
everyone talking about "the multiverse problem" and then being sponsored by opera gx on UA-cam is starting to feel like it's own little multiverse subplot
Explaining why opera is actually Kang, a thread 🧵
The multiverse is like making a small story into something like One Piece in terms of content you need to read/watch to keep it up.
Before the pandemic I started a writing a series involving characters from alternate universes and timelines crossing over and at this point, despite having a lot of ideas I genuinely think are good, I don't even know if I want to continue with it. The concept has already been milked to hell while I was writing my stories, and I don't want to spend years working on a comic based around something everyone has grown sick of during production.
Just write it.
I found myself in the same situation but decided to go through with writing it regardless.
As a matter of fact its because of the ceaseless, un-creative use of the concept that I feel more inspired to try and make something unique and meaningful from it. To show that it can be done.
Sure it can be demoralising to see people complain about how bored they are of the multiverse idea but if you genuinely think you can do better I'd say it's worth the effort
I’m in a private fan-server focusing on a specific show. When it was first formed, myself and many others in it were all collaborating to develop a fanon universe based on our speculations of what could happen next in the story after the end of the most recent installment. Two of our lead developers had very different ideas about where to take a prominent character, and we decided to introduce a multiverse so both of their concepts could be explored.
Since then, many members have developed our own alternate-fanon-universes of said show, often springing from us having differing interpretations of the characters or of the events of an episode, if not from basic “what if this was different” questions. Most of our “crossovers” happen through roleplay, which in-story takes the form of an interuniversal chatroom. It’s been going on long enough that it isn’t unexpected for characters of one universe to have prominent influence in a course-altering arc of a different universe. On top of all that, we conceived an over-arching villain that can function as a background threat to the multiverse as a whole, and we do want to eventually write a final confrontation that can be shared outside the server.
To this end, I’ve been trying to figure out how to avoid the trap that Marvel fell into with its later projects, as far as “required viewing” for the sake of convincing audiences why they should care about any of these characters, as well as making sure that all characters featured have a way to serve the narrative and aren’t just in it for a participation trophy or popularity points. And from what I’ve seen, I think a lot of it comes down to knowing what needs to be established to the audience about each character in order for their part in the crossover to make sense…and frankly, your audience shouldn’t need to know everything about a character’s individual story in order for their role in a collaborative piece to make sense. We shouldn’t expect audiences to know who everyone in a multiverse crossover is or how they each got here, no matter how much that greater context might inform a character’s actions within the crossover; if the audience does know, it might prompt a deeper understanding of that individual character within the bounds of the crossover, but if the character’s presence can’t speak for itself without that deeper understanding then the story falls flat. This is especially true when there’s no telling which characters are new to the audience and which aren’t.
From that perspective, I believe each character needs to be treated as if the crossover is the first story they’re appearing in. Audiences should be able to get to know them the same way they get to know the cast of any new story: with the instinctual awareness that these characters didn’t spring into existence out of thin air, but that anything we need to know about them will be shared when the progression of the narrative deems it relevant or necessary. After all, if many of the characters themselves won’t have those details the moment someone new is integrated, then why should the audience need to know in advance? Let the characters be discovered through the story that’s being told with them NOW.
Anyway, go read The Dark Tower.
Wait is a dark tower multiverse story
I love that book series. The movie sucked.
What is it about?
I feel like multiverse stories should be self contained and short, but not intertwined with the main story of any given media, be it heroes, fantasy with magical types of settings, or even something super futuristic. It's more messy because super hero stuff already overlaps with all of that as is. Making most of your stories be these grand, multiversal plots with massive character counts that are literally just different versions of the same character coming together feels washed because it always makes me think "Man, why does it have to be a different version of this character and not someone new and cool?". It's like, you want to write someone with the same abilities. Ok. They don't have to literally be the same character, but different universe. It only works for something like "What if this character made this decision instead" types of things or alternate events. You know, self contained stuff. It gets really bad when it leads to these characters becoming unimaginably strong. That's why I can't really get into stuff like Spiderverse or infinite Earths, etc. I never could. It felt like wasting plots and characters. Just so boring. Many people say "generic" as designs for simple characters, which is wrong, but when you have a multiverse plot with so many characters that are the same one, yeah, they all look generic. I can't tell who is who and yeah.
I understand and love all the multiverse stories.
It’s a battle for what ‘truth’ is in a character’s reality.
Without a definitive truth, your reality is subject to change or destruction.
A destroyed reality is the end of the world.
✌️😊
My literal first introduction to the multiverse was with undertale and honestly i really like how the fandom really built on to it and got creative with it (ohters more than some) i truly loved all the AUs people came up with tho
A problem with Multiverse stories is that it falls into a similar category as political correctness. In that it get used as a substitute for good writing. There are a lot of things that get used for that.
Might be a good idea for a video.
I do like this trope, because when it's done well it can be really good, and even thought provoking, but now it's just become a big red reboot button for studios who care more about trying to keep their brands fresh than the actual end result.
I believe that the George reeve cameo is way worse than the Christopher reeves one. Chris loved being Superman. George hated it because he said it ruined his career
It also contributed to George's SUICIDE.
They also released the movie at his SUICIDE'S ANNIVERSARY
multiverse make having stakes meaningless.
oh, Batman dies in 616, but there's the multiverse, there's an infinite world where Batman is still alive and kicking.
how am I supposed to feel anything if even death means nothing?
cause comics.
Fiona and Cake and Spider verse are my two favorite multiverse stories.
Mine too
I've seen everything and everywhere all at once now and I think it does the idea really well for a live action story 😄
At the point, make a simple plot about multiverses being threaten with an interesting taste to it. Really.
At least Ghostbusters: Afterlife used Harold Ramis' likeness positively and it actually had an impact in the story since alot of it involves Egon Spengler, who died trying to stop an incoming apocalypse. He's the ancestor of the main character and his appearance affects the main character and caps off his story in a good way.
Thany you so much I hate Multiverse storylines. SOUTH PARK WAS RIGHT.
Multiverse used to be a fun concept when the heroes travel through different and fighting and evil version of themselves and etc, but now its becoming a lazy gimmick. Everytime when something bad happens in comics or superhero movies, they used the multiverse excuse to retcon or get out of trouble instead of build story around it to fix it. Plus, it's getting really tiresome that now EVERYBODY is doing the multiverse storyline, and at this point people are sick and tired of this cliche. It's so ridiculous even South Park call this out.
how many things has south park panderverse called out
@@saiyanscaris6530 A lot. Watch it and you'll find out.
If they already show multiple Sonic universes why on earth they don´t show us the Sonic Underground. I´ve been waiting for more than 20 years that this hedgehog find his mother.
we have Archie Sonic Online for this atleast. as this fan project actually gave this show it's conclusion that was replaced by Metal Sonic Vs Shard
It's a shame that viewers are turning away from anything multiverse related because of how overused it is and most movies and shows about it are awful.
I understand people's dislike about the Multiverse but the multiverse has been one of my favorite media concepts and I hope to one day screenwrite any. If that ever happens, I'll remember this video and write a great Multiverse story with my heart to revive the multiverse media concept.
Multiverse of Midness.
someone finally said it!!!! thank you!!!
In another universe Cartoonshi is calling The Flash a masterpiece, and Into the spider-verse overrated and pandering...
But they'll all still hate the loud house! Crises averted!
Toonshi's Canon Event is hating Loud House
the loud house was good for a while but then it got the spongebob treatment
Sonic Prime has a lot of missed opportunities. For example, Rebel and Renegade have one of if not the last tree as the centerpiece of their base taking inspiration and hope from it. How would they react to seeing a world dominated by one massive forest? And Dread comes from a world covered in a massive ocean yet he doesn't have much of a reaction to being in New Yolk when logically the idea of large buildings let alone a whole city of them should be alien to him. Then speaking of the ocean world we never have a scene where Sonic has to explain to them that he can't swim and they react with bewilderment because for someone living in a world covered in water, the idea of a healthy person who can't swim would be baffling. And I could go on with other ways the ideas are squandered.
My first instances of learning about stuff like Multiverses in media was Phineas and Ferb The Movie (2011) and Ben 10 Omniverse with the episode Store 23, both of which I think utilized the concept pretty well cuz in both instances they focused on being character driven, with the Phineas and Ferb movie focusing on the relationship between Phineas and Ferb and Perry and with Store 23 being an insight into Ben's character and how he probably would have ended up without his grandpa's guidance.
Same here like those are like a few of the things that introduced me to the multiverse as a wee lad.
I think everyone forgot that Sonic Rush was a good multiverse story
there were two games around it. and i guess it featured a sol dimension but yeah i feel those games did it better than prime
That's not Multiverse though, it is exploring a second Universe.
In another reality you're defending modern multiverses.
i think the biggest issue is the slight differences or when multiverse focus goes beyond a few dimensions.
like i'll admit i like sonic prime as dumb fun but man why did it take an entire season for the different counterparts to start interacting with eachother?
and of course just the classic industrial, sea, jungle and dead world with the stereotypes that go along with them, little more mind boggling since it's a fracture of one reality.
one fan concept i really enjoy is having the industrial world house the most evil sadistic form of eggman overwhelmed by his narcasism much like the 90's cartoon then the other worlds embodying different aspects respectively, i do like some character executions, jungle amy having her care for animals amped up to an extreme, pirate and resistance knuckles being complete opposites, selfish and unserious then leader and overly serious, robotised amy was nice to see just shame her pair up was a pirate, and damn nine honestly gives me KH2 roxas vibes where he is absolutely sick of being treat as a version that shouldn't exist and just wants his own life. all the eggmen can go fuck themselves though i thought it would've been a multiverse teamup like rush's nega but no we gotta hear fucking baby crying every episode.
honestly i'd just like one modern sonic thing i can say is good without adding a huge but to the end lol, though on that note the sonic timeline is also kinda fucked cause multiverse thanks to sonic forces and mania, went from a new setting like the rush games to being canon and retconning generations being time versions which makes no fucking sense noting the villain of the game was the damn time eater lol.
i dunno i'm not opposed to multiverse storys, i only watch stuff based on recommendation so i didn't even watch flash or post endgame mcu. i always love to see creative spins on concepts and frankly that's why i love spinoffs, and that's where i think multiverse storys work best, disconnected from the main plot. who cares if miles moralis is having wacky dimension hopping adventures when peter parker is still in new york fighting the green goblin, it's when alternative dimensions stop being alternative is when they lose their purpose.
The Multiverse can be used in a creative way. Hell that’s how we got Spiderverse after all.
My problem with it is when they blatantly use it to brush plot holes under the rug, a multiverse makes it incredibly easy to go “Uhhh… Uhhh, it’s a different universe!” When someone points out a plot hole, this is no more evident than in Bioshock Infinite. At the time, was pretty unique in it’s usage of it, especially being one of the pioneers of it being used in video games. But the more you replay the game, the more you realise how much they were trying to patchwork parts of the story that just didn’t make sense. And let’s not even mention how much it’s usage in the Burial at Sea expansions spat on Rapture’s legacy.
TL;DR for this video: iteration marred by ignorance is inevitable
I like how Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Steel Ball Run handles the multiverse.
None of those words are in the bible
And it's just not about them and is pretty much just a reboot.
So what? What does the holy Bible have to do with this?
@@dragonempress8367 It's a meme
And I'm glad I read the Manga! 𝓓𝓸𝓳𝔂𝓪𝓪𝓪𝓪𝓪𝓷~
Personally the first time i saw a multiverse story was in TMNT 2003. The shows Battle Nexus Arc, Ultimate Drako Arc & the movie: Turtles Forever was how i was introduced to the whole different dimensions & parallel universes concept.
“Someone finally said it”
I feel the need to mention "Spider Wars", the two-parter finale of the mid-90s Spider-Man animated series. It's even a claimed influence of the Spider-Verse thing.
I think "Spider Wars" was a pretty wise exercise. First of all, it provided a quite epic and unhinged finale. It also explored a few things that didn't get adapted in the series. Finally, the conclusion was perfectly inserted in that concept of parallel universe travelling.
I haven't seen yet that infamous The Flash movie, but I feel like its multiverse thing is quite close to "Spider Wars" but on coke. Instead of being a dialogue between the series and the original comics timeline, it's a festival of all former DC comics film adaptations with even the aborted ones. The stakes seem also quite over-the-top for a movie that isn't supposed to be the conclusion of something bigger.
Has the multiverse milk money run dry?
The multiverse is probably the only reason I’m not into comics. I’m not about to spend my money on 63 different series then spend 5 hours figuring out where they stand in the verse for it to get reset a few months later and for it to not matter anymore
Man I love when Cartoonshi is featured in a Cartoonshi video
Shout out for Dry Lagoon In the background...i love that track