Just received this same style bar from an eBay seller and it was out of range for 999 but good for sterling! Your video was very helpful and I’m less suspect of the bar.
Man I have 2 of these bars w/ the P” series and 999+ #’s are tighter together-really nice vintage bars I also have a sigma and it’s outside the brackets for .999, for 96% it’s in the middle and for 90% it’s in the middle but ya I’m gonna run the calcs you provided to just confirm it but wow what a hassle man to have these bars do that on a Sigma, thanks for your info/video its really helpful 👍🏼✅
You should have used the Sigma machine wand test your bar as you need to find a flat spot to test your bar. Now you could take your bar back to the coin shop and ask to test your bar again but this time using the wand attachment to test your bar but it has to be on the flat surface of the bar.
Keep doing what you’re doing brother. The coin shop owner doesn’t know that you can get a premium for many products that come in silver. Take provident metals for an example of what they sell things for and what they show on their site as their “buy back price”
I would do a specific gravity test in water. Just use some thin fishing to displace in a small container that fits the bar. It's really easy! This is more accurate than how you did it. Or try using the probe on the Sigma tester.
The sigma machines have a tough time with that specific variety of engelhard bars. On the xrf machine it will come back as it should. In my Facebook groups others have had this exact same issue with the exact same variety of engelhard bars
I would use an ultra sonic thickness gauge instead to test out the silver bars, you don't need a fancy one a $150 buck investment in a basic one should do.
You could begin with the ice test. If the fake bar had lead alloyed in it, which it would have to in order to match the average density of silver, the ice test would show it in seconds. Silver has the highest thermal conductivity of any metal, and lead has a LOUSY thermal conductivity. And since the lead component would be in an alloy, that would drop the conductivity even lower. I'd expect the silver bar to eat through an ice cube like Pac-Man whereas the fake would melt it VERY slowly. Copper has excellent thermal conductivity: almost as good as silver but the density is about 15% lower. The bar would clearly be bigger if it had a copper core. I'd like to see you do the ice test if you still have both bars.
Just came across your video, sorry for my delayed comment/question. You didn't refer to any magnetic testing....I assume a magnet reacted as it should. I don't have access to a testing machine and my "earth magnet" is my go-to friend. Thanks for your video.
Thanks for bringing that up. Yes, I forgot to mention that in the video, but I did perform the magnet test and it passed. The rate of slide down the bar was the same for both bars.
I would try using the small external wand that comes with the verifier on the edge of the bar, or if you have the bullion wand try that on the top or bottom of the bar. Should give better results.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm afraid that we tried using both wands over most of the surface and every one of them showed similar results. But overall, I'm convinced that this is authentic based on the specific gravity tests and the reply that I received from the administrator of the AllEngelhard.com site
The AllEnglehard site does NOT perform the verification that you asked. I just sent email to them to raise this as a concern - in case the bars were fake. They replied back with the information that I mentioned in the video.
Bad advice you wont sell a. Vintage bar to a dealer thats why ebay is there, engelhard will verify bars they offered to me just provide pictures and serial number i trust them been on ebay for years very few problems
As I mentioned towards the end of the video, I am satisfied that this is a genuine bar. I reached that conclusion by using the weight and dimensions of the bar and calculating the specific gravity. This was also the second bar that I bought which showed this reading on the analyzer (I returned the first one). And, I have heard from others - you are the 3rd one, that they saw the same results on their wide pressed bar. So I'm convinced that this is not a fake. Maybe when I have more time, I will do a dunk test on this and post the results. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for the reply, sigma actually got back to me and said this style bar sometimes was .995 or lower and it will test that way on the sigma. Mine was dead on center on the .925 setting. I also did the same calculation and mine weighed the same as yours and fell within the spec. These are legit and they are awesome considering I just picked this up for $175 from lcs. Have a good one!
Tomorrow morning I am about to buy to vintage engelhard bars I am a little nervous I am new at this. I'm going to meet him at Dunkin donuts and probably never see him again. Visually they add up in the photos. there's five to pick from and they look like a couple of the very more rare pieces. I wish I had a second opinion if you get this in could I send you an email with the photos
Scottsdale, Apmex and many other dealers all have eBay store, just make sure you're dealing with a reputable seller, it's often cheaper than official store and ships faster, too.
Vegas Knights yep. Just bought a 10oz Aztec calendar bar from liberty coin for 298 and a day after it’s up to 315. Never buy from someone who isn’t a PM seller and ALWAYS check sellers negative feedback and ratings.
Just received this same style bar from an eBay seller and it was out of range for 999 but good for sterling! Your video was very helpful and I’m less suspect of the bar.
i love engelhard bars too!!! everybody says im nuts but i keep buying them!!!! keep stacking
Man I have 2 of these bars w/ the P” series and 999+ #’s are tighter together-really nice vintage bars I also have a sigma and it’s outside the brackets for .999, for 96% it’s in the middle and for 90% it’s in the middle but ya I’m gonna run the calcs you provided to just confirm it but wow what a hassle man to have these bars do that on a Sigma, thanks for your info/video its really helpful 👍🏼✅
You should have used the Sigma machine wand test your bar as you need to find a flat spot to test your bar. Now you could take your bar back to the coin shop and ask to test your bar again but this time using the wand attachment to test your bar but it has to be on the flat surface of the bar.
There was absolutely no need to cover the numbers.
I just pretty much said the same thing.
Keep doing what you’re doing brother. The coin shop owner doesn’t know that you can get a premium for many products that come in silver. Take provident metals for an example of what they sell things for and what they show on their site as their “buy back price”
I would do a specific gravity test in water. Just use some thin fishing to displace in a small container that fits the bar. It's really easy! This is more accurate than how you did it. Or try using the probe on the Sigma tester.
Why did you cover the serial numbers?
The sigma machines have a tough time with that specific variety of engelhard bars. On the xrf machine it will come back as it should. In my Facebook groups others have had this exact same issue with the exact same variety of engelhard bars
I would use an ultra sonic thickness gauge instead to test out the silver bars, you don't need a fancy one a $150 buck investment in a basic one should do.
You could begin with the ice test. If the fake bar had lead alloyed in it, which it would have to in order to match the average density of silver, the ice test would show it in seconds. Silver has the highest thermal conductivity of any metal, and lead has a LOUSY thermal conductivity. And since the lead component would be in an alloy, that would drop the conductivity even lower. I'd expect the silver bar to eat through an ice cube like Pac-Man whereas the fake would melt it VERY slowly. Copper has excellent thermal conductivity: almost as good as silver but the density is about 15% lower. The bar would clearly be bigger if it had a copper core. I'd like to see you do the ice test if you still have both bars.
Just came across your video, sorry for my delayed comment/question.
You didn't refer to any magnetic testing....I assume a magnet reacted as it should.
I don't have access to a testing machine and my "earth magnet" is my go-to friend.
Thanks for your video.
Thanks for bringing that up. Yes, I forgot to mention that in the video, but I did perform the magnet test and it passed. The rate of slide down the bar was the same for both bars.
Why do you block the serial number?
I would try using the small external wand that comes with the verifier on the edge of the bar, or if you have the bullion wand try that on the top or bottom of the bar. Should give better results.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm afraid that we tried using both wands over most of the surface and every one of them showed similar results. But overall, I'm convinced that this is authentic based on the specific gravity tests and the reply that I received from the administrator of the AllEngelhard.com site
do you have to use distilled water for the gravity test, can you use tape on top of the silver or would that affect the readings?
I bought some engel bars did the all engel site verify the serial at no charge and do they verify the age and mintage? I would love that
The AllEnglehard site does NOT perform the verification that you asked. I just sent email to them to raise this as a concern - in case the bars were fake. They replied back with the information that I mentioned in the video.
So maybe your machine isnt working
Bad advice you wont sell a. Vintage bar to a dealer thats why ebay is there, engelhard will verify bars they offered to me just provide pictures and serial number i trust them been on ebay for years very few problems
I have the same bar and get the same reads on my sigma tester... did you ever get any more info on yours?
As I mentioned towards the end of the video, I am satisfied that this is a genuine bar. I reached that conclusion by using the weight and dimensions of the bar and calculating the specific gravity. This was also the second bar that I bought which showed this reading on the analyzer (I returned the first one). And, I have heard from others - you are the 3rd one, that they saw the same results on their wide pressed bar. So I'm convinced that this is not a fake. Maybe when I have more time, I will do a dunk test on this and post the results. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for the reply, sigma actually got back to me and said this style bar sometimes was .995 or lower and it will test that way on the sigma. Mine was dead on center on the .925 setting. I also did the same calculation and mine weighed the same as yours and fell within the spec. These are legit and they are awesome considering I just picked this up for $175 from lcs. Have a good one!
@@NorthEast207 Thanks for the update - good to know about the sigma settings. Yes, they are indeed awesome. You got an excellent deal from your lcs!
I now buy directly from the private mint i recently bought 150 dollars worth of bars that end up being silver plated bars.
Tomorrow morning I am about to buy to vintage engelhard bars I am a little nervous I am new at this. I'm going to meet him at Dunkin donuts and probably never see him again. Visually they add up in the photos. there's five to pick from and they look like a couple of the very more rare pieces. I wish I had a second opinion if you get this in could I send you an email with the photos
STOP BUYIN PM ON EBAY
Scottsdale, Apmex and many other dealers all have eBay store, just make sure you're dealing with a reputable seller, it's often cheaper than official store and ships faster, too.
Vegas Knights yep. Just bought a 10oz Aztec calendar bar from liberty coin for 298 and a day after it’s up to 315. Never buy from someone who isn’t a PM seller and ALWAYS check sellers negative feedback and ratings.