I had this very board in my garage for decads and could not sell it. Nobody wanted to buy it. With the help and reference of this video I could finally sell it...hahaha. Thanks for that Maciek!
Great content Maciek! I quit windsurfing in the late 90's. Last board was a 9ft 105l, 54cm wide, super hard rails, straps way out on the rails combined with a 6 cam deep luff sleeve Hot sails. The board when powered was fast as hell and incredible downwind until you caught a rail. Never bailed that hard in my life. Broke 2 booms in one season and almost drowned trying to waterstart that sail. Been starting back into the sport and really appreciate content like this to help understand what the improvements are or how much the gap is. Your 90 sail video was especially helpful.
Yassss. Brilliant video Maciek. We all love our modern kit whether wave, slalom or freestyle but for those of us who used to sail in the olden days 🤣 it’s cool to compare the old kit to new. Great video showing real sailing and real comparison - nice edit too. All my kit is wave gear but I recently bought an F2 Sputnik 275 World Cup Edition paired with an old 6.5 F2 Arrows race sail. Plan is to take them for a blast somewhere flat and see how fast we can get the Sputnik to go. More videos like this please dude. 🤙🤙
"Not that far off for a 20 year board", so wait, you were close to the speed of a state of the art modern board after you rode the mistral board for like what, one hour? That sounds pretty good actually.
Just the past couple of days, it was really windy (25-30+) out here on the south shore of Oahu, so I decided to take out the old, old-school board that I'd last used at the Gorge 14 years ago. It's about 10 litres less volume and much narrower than anything I'd been sailing out here in Hawaii, so I wasn't sure what would happen. It was indeed a struggle to get it out to the windline, but once I was out there, it sailed really nice. I was able to keep control of it much easier in those high-wind bumpy conditions than any other board I have, (and I have five, two of which are sitting in the garage collecting dust.) I blew some jibes, but at my age (63) I don't really care and don't fight it any more if things go wonky. i had tons of fun, which at this point is all that really matters. This shaper, Brian Hinde, hasn't changed his design much in 35 years of shaping boards, and always had a reputation for building fast, tough but easy to sail boards. Still true. It will go with me when I go to Maui sometime once we're past these covid travel restrictions. I don't care how old it makes me look.
Yeah I sailed my F2 Sputnik the other day in choppy conditions and I have to say. Cutting through chop was so much nicer than my newer stuff. The old narrow design just slices - it's actually quite relaxing. But yeah not so much fun in the turns and getting up to speed.
I'm 59 now, I wont need to get any new boards because I have a Mistral "New Malibu". I am willing to try new stuff but I'm hardwired for 80's stuff. Sailed mostly in South Florida. Always dreamed of the more windy spots. Some people use to say that Fort Poerce was the best surfsailing spot on the east coast. I will be starting back up now that my kids are upper teenage years. Going to Florida this summer, should be pretty interesting to see their faces when dad steps on it in a good breeze....
@@MaciekRutkowski With the c/e of modern sails further forward I would suggest the mast-base right to the back of the slot. I sail my Bic Electric Rock like this with more modern sails and it goes really well - and embarasses younger chaps on new kit a few times.
Super video! It would be a great idea indeed to get a full rig from the nineties and try it, maybe not in competition, but as a comparison test. The fins, wishbones masts and most importantly the sails will be sooo different. That would be extremely interesting. I am under the impression that, unlike many autosport fans, young windsurfers are not so much in touch with the past. A test with a full oldskool rig without anything modern on it would open many youngster’s eyes an even have some educational value. Great job! Go for it man!
Maciek, you should have a look at a funboard from the mid 80s, from the french manufacturer BIC. It's design is quite similar to your modern gear. It was quite popular under very young surfers back then, but the large board manufacturers did not notice the advantages in agility and good nature of that design, so far ahead of it's time. So they needed at least 25 years to achieve a board design, which mainly already existed in the mid 80s in the BIC funboard.
Good for windsurfing that guys like you and Nico rock the oldies. It might help some people into the sport without having to spend a lot of money from day 1. In the long run, this will help the sport and the industry move forward.. keep it going Maciek!! 🤙
Love your work, this was a great idea and you did a fair test with gps numbers, etc. Camera man was great with those zoomed in shots too. Good to see more tests/footage like this.
So happy to find your YT channel. I love your comparision of these new and old School boards. Please keep the content coming . P.S. Love your WIndsurfing TV podcast but Epsidoe 20 was by far and away the best one :-)
@@MaciekRutkowski My mistake, I actully meant EP 21 !! To hear about some of your struggles to get to the top was inspiring, it shows just how hard it is to be at the front of the PWA and I guess any sport. You guys have to be so proffesional just ot have a chance of doing well. I raced back in the late 80's and early 90's and had some success but with nothing like the efforts that you have gone through. Keep up the great work :-)
Great video mate! I almost forgot how technical were old slalom boards, still missing my old Copello red line slalom board.... Keep rocking, great Channel!
What interests me most about this is that boards have clearly got easier to sail as well as faster. I've still got all my old 90s gear but haven't used it for about a decade. Maybe I ought to invest in some newer gear. When I saw where windsurfing was going in the early noughties (freeride, softer rails etc) I thought it was a backlash against the 90s dedicated slalom boards that so few could gybe without swimming and boards had been detuned speed wise for ease of use. Some of us invested a great deal of effort learning how to lay down gybe those old boards, so wanted to keep sailing the old gear we knew. I also wonder if there was a period in the early noughties when a new slalom board would be slower than your last one due to the marketing influence- manufacturers realising they must make the sport easier and broaden the appeal? But interesting to see that the kit has now overtaken completely in both pleasure of use and speed.
I have the exact same board and still ride it on flat days. Jibing is really tricky , you have to push the rail gently at start till it bites and then apply pressure. Also planning needs to be powered up due to the thin tail. It is also a bit dangerous on the ankles you can easily twist then if not careful.
Wonderful video. Really nice. I'd love to have your impressions about the full 90's equipment. For my part, I windsurfed in the 90's, then stopped and picked it up 2 years ago. Everything seems so incredibly easier. Before, the boards would hit the chop so much harder. And the wave sails were so unstable. Sailing now feels like sitting on the sofa compared to the time. Anyway. Brilliant video.
Cool, interesting to see how the boards stacked up against each other. The Mistral was definitely bogging down out of the gybe but still held its own. Comparing them in a race was cool. Loved it...
Bryan Gibb the only way to judge a “race machine” is in a race I believe! Was funny when I sailed alone I kinda thought it was ok, but then in the race it was clearly inferior! 😱
@@MaciekRutkowski But is it even a fair comparison? You're used to one board, you know how it works, you know the perfect setting etc. Wouldn't you have to use the board a lot longer to really find out which one is better?
stau ffap i used it quite a lot like few hours before I raced on it. My job is too feel the gear from the first run, that’s how we get quite high efficency in R&D testing a few different boards every day. But for sure it could be that I would get 2-3% more out of it after a few days of sailing it - wouldn’t be a massive difference I’m sure
Cool stuff Maciek, your experiment replies a big question I still had about "evolution" in windsurfing, with a little old school training and ideal conditions it looks like you would beat a modern field with a 1999 quiver !
Nice video. I was going to try out an old 275cm freeride and 4 cam sail from 1996 but couldn't even get the cams to stay on the mast whilst rigging up. I gave up. I then remembered why I didnt use that sail much. Now the 275cm board wont even fit in my current van. I guess the bottom shape of the Mistral is a lot flatter. Did you look at the speed for the alpha? 500m with a gybe. I bet that showed up a large difference than top speed.
Hi Maciek, very good idea! I remember the board... I had a SLE 290... a real rocket... very light, ultra fast, monster hard feeling on choppy conditions, very sharp grip on the deck... hard but good work to sail fast:-)
A good balanced overview I think you’ve achieved here...but one thing I’d like to say... cost of gear today is beyond too many young people’s reach, whereas, they can pick up for peanuts old stuff that they should be able to learn on plenty well enough as stepping stones to more expensive equipment later! I’m 73 and started on cheap kit at the age of 40, and by 45 I was sailing top spots around the world on the sort of gear you show in your video, with, I may add , sails,masts,etc, that worked in perfect harmony with the boards of that era too! So come on good man...encourage people to buy good old kit to start up on and have fun, just like we did back then!? ATB..Nigel
I am 37 and wanting to try this again after 23 years of doing with school in Spain. I absolutely LOVED IT but never persuade it…….and after reading your comment IM GOING FOR OT THIS SUMMER 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
frankie carlton It’s for the real deal! Kite surfers in the main cannot do it, so ignore them and enjoy! I’m 75 this year and I’m determined to go again this summer! Can’t wait! One of the most enjoyable activities of my whole life! Cheers, enjoy!
frankie carlton Brilliant, the fun you will have in the near and long term can’t be overstated! No idea where you are, and whether on lake or sea, either way, take care, stay safe and never go out to sea in an offshore wind ! ATB Cheers
Pads actually started showing up in the late 80s, first as an add-on, later as standard equipment. I believe the slalom boards were the last ones to get them, I don't really remember if my RRD proto from -95 had them but I think so. My guess is that the SLE came without pads just to save a few grams, weight was a big selling point back then.
Great video. A lot of fun to see stuff like. Was racing when that board came out, just before the Drops FL10 flapper. Remember Mistral had a course edition and it complety failed against the Drops FL10. Still have a dream of trying Dunkis equipment from fx 96
Started "Sailboarding" in 1983. Drove to Key West Florida to buy a Mistral "Tarifa" from the dealer. 10' 10" that could do it all. I would like to see that in epoxy and carbon fiber. It was a great start into the short boards of that era. That is Old School in my mind because you didn't call them Windsurfers unless the were the brand of such. Nice video. Your accent is just like the Amish down my road here in Northern New York.
@@MaciekRutkowski All good. I think you did a great video! Had so many thoughts about this old school new school stuff. I'm sure the modern stuff is great, the stuff you refer to as old school is actually my new school! My kids are teenages now and soon to be trying windsurfing as I start up again. I will be watching more videos, soon!
not a PWA level - hahaha, local boys will not like it.. excellent job as always, fun to watch. see you around one day, btw. carpenter has one carbon slalom beauty from 90-ties to give it a go..
This shows that if you just want some flat water lake blasting and pure fun you could easily get that on a very cheap secondhand board from eBay. In the UK they sell for under £100 quite often.
Great honest video , Maciek showed the old board as it is. Not as good as a modern one but not as total crap. Boards have not changed that much but they have. Also you can compare old boards to new ones since they can keep theirform and performance over long time. That can not be said for sails as they loose their shape with time. So it was fair to test it with a modern sail. Have change to a new wave board after 15 years without windsurfing in the waves and it is so much more easier to windsurf, that i can keep the level i had 15 years ago.
The biggest difference between them is how the board/fin combos work. As you say older combos make up speed narrowing the board and new ones works with more momentum on the tail because they use softer/bigger fins that gives you much more lift to fly over the water. Older boards are quite fin sensible too, it's obvious if you try a very tuned up board/fin combo it'll has better performance and feeling . It'll be interesting to test both with their respective age rigs in different conditions like flat water, mid chop and voodoo chop as well !!! BTW, if you take a look of the 90' sails you'll note how different they worked, having more powerful, light y flattish sails
Very interesting experiment. The last time I bought a true slalom board was an RRD in 1997, I remember it was an absolute bitch to gybe, but the extra length meant it "ironed" chop pretty well. However, I have not ridden a modern one, so in no position to compare. Sails of today are also really different to back then
Same for me, my last slalom was a 276 Sputnik in 1998ish, I remember the way to keep the rail during the gybe was to pull the clew almost against the wind, which then caused the board to carve deep into the sea, and by contrast releasing the hand next to the mast that was at some point parallel to the water. That was called a "laydown gybe". The stronger the wind the choppier the sea, the harder you had to pull on the back hand...these were the days....
You're always at the front edge. You always know what kind of stuff excite windsurfing people. You easily win at this game. Very hard to find in good shape, some of most performant 90's boards were Mistral Energy, Drops 272, Copello 275, F2 Thommen 270, RRD 281....
@@MaciekRutkowski I don't know any Mistral world champion at that time. The top competitors of that time where from other brands. Would really be interesting to see a Thommen board in comparison. They were the real deal at that area.
@@schobihh2703 Hi, I have a 280 Sputnik WCE, a 275 Thommen, and a 270 sputnik (the oldest one of the three, like the 1990 version...), and I can tell they are all really fast and reliable, even though I sail them with old school sails (Gaastra slalom from circa 95, mostly, 4.4 to 6.5). I guess the Sputnik WCE shape of the middle of the 90s and this Thommen 275 are the fastest boards of these days... If M Rutkowski can try them someday, i'd like to see the result!
@@schobihh2703 More than happy, for me it's the best part of the ride, I'm working hard on those power gybes, the sail very low like if you were trying a 360. And those boards are narrow, so when you're riding fast, it's really fun to be on those needles, there is nothing like that on modern boards, even though I don't discuss the fact they're faster! Oh, and the jumps on flat water, those are real jumps, especially with high winds!
at 6:50 is this the forgiveness of a modern sail in overpowered conditions (looking at the top)? I really need to try out a modern board. These guys seem to have it way easy!
Now I don´t feel so bad about my old equipment in the Garage (but my wife...). Of course those modern boards are better overall, but you can be competitive, especially, when really used to it after a couple of days of adapting. I think it may be as much fun if not more when mastering the challenges in jibing it, what we did well back in the days.
Almost all boards of that era had pads. The SLE was, however, something altogether different. I suspect the aim was ultimate in lightness. I never saw one with added pads.
Cool video! This Mistral SLE 105 L model was my first board to get feet in the footstraps first time on year 1999. Was quite tricky but when I was able to "stay in the saddle", I was the fastest guy on the stright line then. Still have this board and ride it time-to-time when the modern gear starts to feel too easy and boring. With speed fin it's usable also for some amateur speed action. Works best with the sail from the same era (like NP VX2 i.e.).
@@MaciekRutkowski Hehe, yep, after that Mistral SLE "carrot" a Tabou Manta felt wide like a dinner table. Totally different to where and with what pressure to step during gybeing. On Manta you just go and gybe. On SLE you have first to meditate few seconds before and then when turning, to step quick and gently like on the thin ice...
I still remember trying out a mates (he was a brilliant windsurfer) short BIC, i think it was a 276. Frightened me to death with its speed and was hard to control.
@@MaciekRutkowski Absolutely! Go for a 7-camber Neilpryde MKIV or any of the later VX series with a CK95 mast. It would definitely affect the acceleration issue you have addressed. Control will be a bit worse of course. Make sure not to use an oversized sail for the board as these had a much narrower range. Besied the Mistral, I'd also vote for an F2 Sputnik/Thommen, something around 105 litres.
@@MaciekRutkowski Maybe for comparison you can find an old Thommen board. Theses orange Mistral boards where already at this time more difficult to ride than others boards. Full set up would also be nice. Maybe you can find a board where the team rider in the 90ies was about your height and weight. Anyway great videos and interviews!
One downvote by the guy who refuses to upgrade his Mistral. Great video - you at that first jibe mark was everybody in the 90s. I had a mid 90s slalom board and it set back my jibes 5 years.
@@MaciekRutkowski Oh, I wasn't that guy! Ha Ha. I upgraded a long time ago and very happy for it. You always get my upvotes. btw, love your interview style, too.
Hey and Yeah, it is a cool board, I was surfing the SLE as limited edition in white color. Hard to turn, but speed is great and even if you loof into the wind, other boards cannot follow you.
Thanks for video, can you try same board with best fin and sail from that same era, the modern fin and modern sail you Used made that old board work much better. 😀
Great test. Interesting that you can achieve such a high speed. Thank god for easier gear these days. When teaching windsurfing I want pupils to: 1) quickly move on to a size smaller 2) feel the speed 3) not use dad's old gear.
Mathijs Broersma yes the old gear is a lot harder!! I thought it was clear in the video and now I get all these messages saying people want to buy old shit cause it’s the same speed 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🥵
When I tried a early 90's (? Npu) everyone in the Old school group said it was sooo fast. They could not have tried any sail from today. Even wave sails have the same or more power and MUCH more stability.
That was very interesting to follow. You probably didn't train on the gear for so long and probably didn't try different fins, different rakes, flex etc.. like with your slalom gear. To me actually the fin looked quite big for that narrow tail width, which would make jibing even more difficult. But that could be a wrong perception. So all this taking into account, I was astonished to see, that the old gear actually really did so well. So obiviously the old gear is still worth to be used and people can have a lot of fun on it. So is it worth to switch to new gear spent some 1000EUR for it? I doubt that this video will make people consider this change more than be before. It will be interesting to follow the comments and read what people say to it.
Jörg Schobi yeah somehow people think that this video says that the old board is still good, but I sail almost 300 days and year and I struggled to jibe and to do anything else then go straight basically - so is it maybe just a case of people seeing what they wanna see? 🤔🤔
@@MaciekRutkowski Yeah it has a lot to do with "people see what they want to see". I have had the disussion with some guys that they should change to long harness lines, because it is so much better. I wasn't very successfull . WRT to jibing, my experience is that many surfers just struggle to jibe. They are not capable of "lay down" pushing the rail and proper foot work. I am not convinced that jibing a new board especially much wider board, for these people without changing their technic or learning a new technic, will really be more succesfull.
In the slopes you still see guys with the skis locked together, it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks. Says me who sailed since 1991, and have finally added a waist harness to the bag, but still use just 26" lines. All rest 1 to max 1 0 years (wave and slalom kits).
Jörg Schobi yes you’re right 90% of the people that struggle its because they dont commit. But if you’re on a magic carpet that feels super comfy i think you’re more likely to commit. Also new boards need less commitment to come out of the jibe planning, they simply have better glide + more volume in the tail so not so easy to sink and stop.
Try the Chapter fibreglass boards from the early 80’s 315 pintail winger and 270 swallow tail, with Gaastra non foiled sails! Then you’ll walk in our shoes 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🤓
perfect comparison!! I pissed off many users with brand new board because of your video. Especially when I overtake them with my 24year old Mistral Flow 103l :-) What is speed difference between Invictus and SLE?Did you say 0,5 or 1,5knt? What about mast comparison?I tried 30% and 100% carbon mast in slalom sail with same speed..have you ever tried it?thx
@@MaciekRutkowski Jego vlog jest martwy, napędzany nudnymi fiskalnymi relacjami. Twój vlog jest żywy, czerpie z twojego życia. Mam nadzieję że tak zostanie nawet jak będziesz miał kasę. Pytanie czy z klasą będziesz potrafił żyć?
Paweł Stempczyński hehe spokojnie kase na zycie mam i wydaje mi sie ze raczej klasy nie brakuje ale przydalby sie budzet jeszcze stricte na YT - na razie klade z wlasnej kielni i zobaczymy , sprawls mi to duzo funu!
Rewa? :) Nie no ta deska to już było coś...spróbuj starą ciężką alohe ;P ale fakt chyba musiałaby być deska jeszcze kilka lat świeższa i freestyle wave
Now you have to get your hand on winning custom from the nineties and compare it to both production boards. In all interviews, they said there was a huge gap in performance between custom and production. Let's see how much ? What if you could find one the board from KP's Czech/Californian shaper that contributate to defeat the terminator ???
Its all about familiarity with the board. The two boards gybe a bit differently. Get used to them and they are not much different. The wider boards carry a bit more speed in/out the gybe. They DON'T plane better just faster.
So, these old boars were fast, but much harder to gibe? Perhaps you should try some old Tiga 260 Slalom. It jibes much besser, than the Mistral. The Tiga was the best highwind slalomboard of the 80s and 90s. Only problem: New sails don't fit to it, because of the position of the mast.
Interesting to see u flat out burn the new boards snd I think ur main complaint was the gybe, but looked like u tried to pivot which stalled it and u were not leaning so forward to commit t rail at the point in the video. Any board would stall in a pivot but less so if more tail volume. For me take away is u won with both so either ur way better than ur race buddies or it makes no difference new or old apart from gybe ease which U clearly got the hang of on the old board...And all at a fraction of the cost.
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Ok that part where you just pass the competition in a straight line with a board that’s a least 20 years older that was just epic!
Flimofly or the competition wasnt that strong 😜
I had this very board in my garage for decads and could not sell it. Nobody wanted to buy it. With the help and reference of this video I could finally sell it...hahaha. Thanks for that Maciek!
Great content Maciek! I quit windsurfing in the late 90's. Last board was a 9ft 105l, 54cm wide, super hard rails, straps way out on the rails combined with a 6 cam deep luff sleeve Hot sails.
The board when powered was fast as hell and incredible downwind until you caught a rail. Never bailed that hard in my life. Broke 2 booms in one season and almost drowned trying to waterstart that sail.
Been starting back into the sport and really appreciate content like this to help understand what the improvements are or how much the gap is. Your 90 sail video was especially helpful.
This exactly what I was asking for on Nico's and Ben's channels few days ago and you post this video. Absolute legend mate!
Same here. I wish every questions would be answered like this :D
Happy to hear!! Yes there is a milion questions and a milion ideas yet only 24h in a day and 24euro in the bank account 😂😂
Great video, I’m just getting back into windsurfing after a 25 yr break. Interesting to listen to the comments about the differences.
Same here, and I want to keep the old boards and try them with the new sails. Any suggestions about the fin?
Yassss. Brilliant video Maciek. We all love our modern kit whether wave, slalom or freestyle but for those of us who used to sail in the olden days 🤣 it’s cool to compare the old kit to new. Great video showing real sailing and real comparison - nice edit too.
All my kit is wave gear but I recently bought an F2 Sputnik 275 World Cup Edition paired with an old 6.5 F2 Arrows race sail. Plan is to take them for a blast somewhere flat and see how fast we can get the Sputnik to go.
More videos like this please dude. 🤙🤙
Awesome video man! Really shows how talented of a sailor you are that you can still race and win with an older board like that.
Hahah I love that take - as opposed to „wow the new boards are crap the old ones are the same speed, see?” 😂😂
"Not that far off for a 20 year board", so wait, you were close to the speed of a state of the art modern board after you rode the mistral board for like what, one hour? That sounds pretty good actually.
Just the past couple of days, it was really windy (25-30+) out here on the south shore of Oahu, so I decided to take out the old, old-school board that I'd last used at the Gorge 14 years ago. It's about 10 litres less volume and much narrower than anything I'd been sailing out here in Hawaii, so I wasn't sure what would happen. It was indeed a struggle to get it out to the windline, but once I was out there, it sailed really nice. I was able to keep control of it much easier in those high-wind bumpy conditions than any other board I have, (and I have five, two of which are sitting in the garage collecting dust.) I blew some jibes, but at my age (63) I don't really care and don't fight it any more if things go wonky. i had tons of fun, which at this point is all that really matters. This shaper, Brian Hinde, hasn't changed his design much in 35 years of shaping boards, and always had a reputation for building fast, tough but easy to sail boards. Still true. It will go with me when I go to Maui sometime once we're past these covid travel restrictions. I don't care how old it makes me look.
Yeah I sailed my F2 Sputnik the other day in choppy conditions and I have to say. Cutting through chop was so much nicer than my newer stuff. The old narrow design just slices - it's actually quite relaxing. But yeah not so much fun in the turns and getting up to speed.
I'm 59 now, I wont need to get any new boards because I have a Mistral "New Malibu".
I am willing to try new stuff but I'm hardwired for 80's stuff.
Sailed mostly in South Florida.
Always dreamed of the more windy spots. Some people use to say that Fort Poerce was the best surfsailing spot on the east coast.
I will be starting back up now that my kids are upper teenage years. Going to Florida this summer, should be pretty interesting to see their faces when dad steps on it in a good breeze....
Brilliantly made video! Thanks
"I have no idea where to put the base plate" hahha this video is entertaining for sure.
ericsilveira well I didn’t have an idea! 😂
@@MaciekRutkowski With the c/e of modern sails further forward I would suggest the mast-base right to the back of the slot. I sail my Bic Electric Rock like this with more modern sails and it goes really well - and embarasses younger chaps on new kit a few times.
Super video! It would be a great idea indeed to get a full rig from the nineties and try it, maybe not in competition, but as a comparison test. The fins, wishbones masts and most importantly the sails will be sooo different. That would be extremely interesting. I am under the impression that, unlike many autosport fans, young windsurfers are not so much in touch with the past. A test with a full oldskool rig without anything modern on it would open many youngster’s eyes an even have some educational value. Great job! Go for it man!
Great job.
The SLE basically was a Mistral Scremer.
I had a Mistral Screamer and I was totally in awe
the stinger was the good one
Maciek, you should have a look at a funboard from the mid 80s, from the french manufacturer BIC. It's design is quite similar to your modern gear.
It was quite popular under very young surfers back then, but the large board manufacturers did not notice the advantages in agility and good nature of that design, so far ahead of it's time.
So they needed at least 25 years to achieve a board design, which mainly already existed in the mid 80s in the BIC funboard.
Great Video, well done ! The intro pictures are epic. I had a SLE myself and i prayed before every Jibe ;-)
Good for windsurfing that guys like you and Nico rock the oldies. It might help some people into the sport without having to spend a lot of money from day 1. In the long run, this will help the sport and the industry move forward.. keep it going Maciek!! 🤙
(Riding a mix of late 80's-late 90's and modern stuff after a 15 year break)
I agree. Well said.
Love your work, this was a great idea and you did a fair test with gps numbers, etc. Camera man was great with those zoomed in shots too. Good to see more tests/footage like this.
Eric Smith yes the cameraman Daniel Dmytrów is a legend :))
So happy to find your YT channel. I love your comparision of these new and old School boards. Please keep the content coming . P.S. Love your WIndsurfing TV podcast but Epsidoe 20 was by far and away the best one :-)
Symon Tabbenor glad to have you here!! :) Yeah Baker is a gem for sure, but ep21 might be sneaky underrated 😈
@@MaciekRutkowski My mistake, I actully meant EP 21 !! To hear about some of your struggles to get to the top was inspiring, it shows just how hard it is to be at the front of the PWA and I guess any sport. You guys have to be so proffesional just ot have a chance of doing well. I raced back in the late 80's and early 90's and had some success but with nothing like the efforts that you have gone through. Keep up the great work :-)
Symon Tabbenor thank you!! 🙏🏼
Great video mate! I almost forgot how technical were old slalom boards, still missing my old Copello red line slalom board.... Keep rocking, great Channel!
Copello red line I remember that! Wonder what he’s doing today could be a good guest on The Windsurfing Podcast 😁
Amazing to See this!
Old stuff can Go fast🤣🤟
Made my day Bro😄🤙
What interests me most about this is that boards have clearly got easier to sail as well as faster. I've still got all my old 90s gear but haven't used it for about a decade. Maybe I ought to invest in some newer gear.
When I saw where windsurfing was going in the early noughties (freeride, softer rails etc) I thought it was a backlash against the 90s dedicated slalom boards that so few could gybe without swimming and boards had been detuned speed wise for ease of use. Some of us invested a great deal of effort learning how to lay down gybe those old boards, so wanted to keep sailing the old gear we knew.
I also wonder if there was a period in the early noughties when a new slalom board would be slower than your last one due to the marketing influence- manufacturers realising they must make the sport easier and broaden the appeal? But interesting to see that the kit has now overtaken completely in both pleasure of use and speed.
cool vlog! The jibe from Bjorn though... omg!! 0:30
Haldun Atar yes that’s for people who say his just big and that’s it - guy was agile like a cat!!
I have the exact same board and still ride it on flat days. Jibing is really tricky , you have to push the rail gently at start till it bites and then apply pressure. Also planning needs to be powered up due to the thin tail. It is also a bit dangerous on the ankles you can easily twist then if not careful.
Like to see Maciek blasting other guys with the old board😂😂
Andreas Herzinger the guys probably dont 😜
Wonderful video. Really nice. I'd love to have your impressions about the full 90's equipment. For my part, I windsurfed in the 90's, then stopped and picked it up 2 years ago. Everything seems so incredibly easier. Before, the boards would hit the chop so much harder. And the wave sails were so unstable. Sailing now feels like sitting on the sofa compared to the time. Anyway. Brilliant video.
Cool, interesting to see how the boards stacked up against each other. The Mistral was definitely bogging down out of the gybe but still held its own. Comparing them in a race was cool. Loved it...
Bryan Gibb the only way to judge a “race machine” is in a race I believe! Was funny when I sailed alone I kinda thought it was ok, but then in the race it was clearly inferior! 😱
@@MaciekRutkowski
But is it even a fair comparison? You're used to one board, you know how it works, you know the perfect setting etc. Wouldn't you have to use the board a lot longer to really find out which one is better?
stau ffap i used it quite a lot like few hours before I raced on it. My job is too feel the gear from the first run, that’s how we get quite high efficency in R&D testing a few different boards every day. But for sure it could be that I would get 2-3% more out of it after a few days of sailing it - wouldn’t be a massive difference I’m sure
@@MaciekRutkowski
Yeah, i guess that makes sense.
Sometimes I ride my 1992 Fanatic Mega Jag 270 and yeah it is still pretty fast for a old-timer.
Cool stuff Maciek, your experiment replies a big question I still had about "evolution" in windsurfing, with a little old school training and ideal conditions it looks like you would beat a modern field with a 1999 quiver !
Awesome video and test. I still have fun on my old plastic Tiga 157 when it is really windy!
Awesome video and comparison, restarted surfing a couple of years ago on modern gear, a new world it is.
Nice video. I was going to try out an old 275cm freeride and 4 cam sail from 1996 but couldn't even get the cams to stay on the mast whilst rigging up. I gave up. I then remembered why I didnt use that sail much. Now the 275cm board wont even fit in my current van. I guess the bottom shape of the Mistral is a lot flatter. Did you look at the speed for the alpha? 500m with a gybe. I bet that showed up a large difference than top speed.
Hi Maciek, very good idea! I remember the board... I had a SLE 290... a real rocket... very light, ultra fast, monster hard feeling on choppy conditions, very sharp grip on the deck... hard but good work to sail fast:-)
Lol I’ve still got a similar board 1998 mint condition. Really struggled with the jibes. Glad it wasn’t just me.
i am struggling to gybe with my F2 sputnik 295 haha ..
A good balanced overview I think you’ve achieved here...but one thing I’d like to say... cost of gear today is beyond too many young people’s reach, whereas, they can pick up for peanuts old stuff that they should be able to learn on plenty well enough as stepping stones to more expensive equipment later! I’m 73 and started on cheap kit at the age of 40, and by 45 I was sailing top spots around the world on the sort of gear you show in your video, with, I may add , sails,masts,etc, that worked in perfect harmony with the boards of that era too! So come on good man...encourage people to buy good old kit to start up on and have fun, just like we did back then!? ATB..Nigel
I am 37 and wanting to try this again after 23 years of doing with school in Spain. I absolutely LOVED IT but never persuade it…….and after reading your comment IM GOING FOR OT THIS SUMMER 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
frankie carlton It’s for the real deal! Kite surfers in the main cannot do it, so ignore them and enjoy! I’m 75 this year and I’m determined to go again this summer! Can’t wait! One of the most enjoyable activities of my whole life! Cheers, enjoy!
@@nigelparker5886 just passed a 2 day beginner course this weekend! Super happy and can’t wait to go out again!
frankie carlton Brilliant, the fun you will have in the near and long term can’t be overstated! No idea where you are, and whether on lake or sea, either way, take care, stay safe and never go out to sea in an offshore wind ! ATB Cheers
Pads actually started showing up in the late 80s, first as an add-on, later as standard equipment. I believe the slalom boards were the last ones to get them, I don't really remember if my RRD proto from -95 had them but I think so. My guess is that the SLE came without pads just to save a few grams, weight was a big selling point back then.
Great video. A lot of fun to see stuff like. Was racing when that board came out, just before the Drops FL10 flapper. Remember Mistral had a course edition and it complety failed against the Drops FL10. Still have a dream of trying Dunkis equipment from fx 96
nice ..I love it..the best reality check on old chool stuff.
So much fun watching this video!!
Thanks for the video. was fun to watch testing new vs old school
Started "Sailboarding" in 1983. Drove to Key West Florida to buy a Mistral "Tarifa" from the dealer. 10' 10" that could do it all. I would like to see that in epoxy and carbon fiber. It was a great start into the short boards of that era. That is Old School in my mind because you didn't call them Windsurfers unless the were the brand of such.
Nice video.
Your accent is just like the Amish down my road here in Northern New York.
S J hahhaha is your Amish Polish? 😂 anyway could possibly do that, question is where the hell to get a board like that? 🤔
@@MaciekRutkowski All good. I think you did a great video! Had so many thoughts about this old school new school stuff. I'm sure the modern stuff is great, the stuff you refer to as old school is actually my new school! My kids are teenages now and soon to be trying windsurfing as I start up again.
I will be watching more videos, soon!
not a PWA level - hahaha, local boys will not like it.. excellent job as always, fun to watch. see you around one day,
btw. carpenter has one carbon slalom beauty from 90-ties to give it a go..
I love this video :-) So fun!
Brenda Rooker was fun doing it too!
This shows that if you just want some flat water lake blasting and pure fun you could easily get that on a very cheap secondhand board from eBay. In the UK they sell for under £100 quite often.
f2 Peter Thommen!!!! Good old days...
Was my last board
Great honest video , Maciek showed the old board as it is. Not as good as a modern one but not as total crap. Boards have not changed that much but they have. Also you can compare old boards to new ones since they can keep theirform and performance over long time. That can not be said for sails as they loose their shape with time. So it was fair to test it with a modern sail. Have change to a new wave board after 15 years without windsurfing in the waves and it is so much more easier to windsurf, that i can keep the level i had 15 years ago.
Thats what we raced ( i’m in my fifty`s now ) 🤙
The biggest difference between them is how the board/fin combos work. As you say older combos make up speed narrowing the board and new ones works with more momentum on the tail because they use softer/bigger fins that gives you much more lift to fly over the water. Older boards are quite fin sensible too, it's obvious if you try a very tuned up board/fin combo it'll has better performance and feeling . It'll be interesting to test both with their respective age rigs in different conditions like flat water, mid chop and voodoo chop as well !!! BTW, if you take a look of the 90' sails you'll note how different they worked, having more powerful, light y flattish sails
Very interesting experiment. The last time I bought a true slalom board was an RRD in 1997, I remember it was an absolute bitch to gybe, but the extra length meant it "ironed" chop pretty well. However, I have not ridden a modern one, so in no position to compare. Sails of today are also really different to back then
Same for me, my last slalom was a 276 Sputnik in 1998ish, I remember the way to keep the rail during the gybe was to pull the clew almost against the wind, which then caused the board to carve deep into the sea, and by contrast releasing the hand next to the mast that was at some point parallel to the water. That was called a "laydown gybe". The stronger the wind the choppier the sea, the harder you had to pull on the back hand...these were the days....
0:05 Robert Teriitehau and Roby Naish at Palais Omnisport de Paris Bercy, France.
Great video Maciek!
You're always at the front edge. You always know what kind of stuff excite windsurfing people. You easily win at this game. Very hard to find in good shape, some of most performant 90's boards were Mistral Energy, Drops 272, Copello 275, F2 Thommen 270, RRD 281....
G. N. Yes I wonder if this SLE was actually good back then, the way this FMX Invictus is now. Maybe I compared a Dacia to a Lambo who knows 😂😂
@@MaciekRutkowski I don't know any Mistral world champion at that time. The top competitors of that time where from other brands. Would really be interesting to see a Thommen board in comparison. They were the real deal at that area.
@@schobihh2703 Hi, I have a 280 Sputnik WCE, a 275 Thommen, and a 270 sputnik (the oldest one of the three, like the 1990 version...), and I can tell they are all really fast and reliable, even though I sail them with old school sails (Gaastra slalom from circa 95, mostly, 4.4 to 6.5). I guess the Sputnik WCE shape of the middle of the 90s and this Thommen 275 are the fastest boards of these days... If M Rutkowski can try them someday, i'd like to see the result!
@@walterpepekay787 But how happy are you with jibing the old boards?
@@schobihh2703 More than happy, for me it's the best part of the ride, I'm working hard on those power gybes, the sail very low like if you were trying a 360. And those boards are narrow, so when you're riding fast, it's really fun to be on those needles, there is nothing like that on modern boards, even though I don't discuss the fact they're faster! Oh, and the jumps on flat water, those are real jumps, especially with high winds!
Great video mate! Very funny! Thank you!
Nice video Maciek, thumbs up!!
at 6:50 is this the forgiveness of a modern sail in overpowered conditions (looking at the top)? I really need to try out a modern board. These guys seem to have it way easy!
Henrik Carlsen yeah its definetely a lot easier!!
Old board looks 10times better though.
Now I don´t feel so bad about my old equipment in the Garage (but my wife...). Of course those modern boards are better overall, but you can be competitive, especially, when really used to it after a couple of days of adapting. I think it may be as much fun if not more when mastering the challenges in jibing it, what we did well back in the days.
the age of sigar racing. The age that seperated the boys from real man :D :D :D :D
Nice seeing you also try it in a heat!
Ikleef Dusikbesta haha was a humbling experience for sure!
Maciek you are as crazy for windsurfing as me! Great show!
sharewaves.tv maybe more! 🤪🤪
Footpads were not always standard on new boards, you bought them separate and glued them on yourself.
Almost all boards of that era had pads. The SLE was, however, something altogether different. I suspect the aim was ultimate in lightness. I never saw one with added pads.
Cool video! This Mistral SLE 105 L model was my first board to get feet in the footstraps first time on year 1999. Was quite tricky but when I was able to "stay in the saddle", I was the fastest guy on the stright line then. Still have this board and ride it time-to-time when the modern gear starts to feel too easy and boring. With speed fin it's usable also for some amateur speed action. Works best with the sail from the same era (like NP VX2 i.e.).
Ray O'Kas haha if you started on that it must’ve beem only easier from there!
@@MaciekRutkowski Hehe, yep, after that Mistral SLE "carrot" a Tabou Manta felt wide like a dinner table. Totally different to where and with what pressure to step during gybeing. On Manta you just go and gybe. On SLE you have first to meditate few seconds before and then when turning, to step quick and gently like on the thin ice...
@@rayokas69 and thats exaclty what I would like people to take away from this video! :)
My mistrial eruption from 93 is still scary fast
I still remember trying out a mates (he was a brilliant windsurfer) short BIC, i think it was a 276. Frightened me to death with its speed and was hard to control.
Where does the clips at the beginning come from? Awesome!
Too bad you did not try F2 slalom 270 from mid 90s
Interesting! More of this.
J.A. Physio what would you suggest? Full 90s setup?
@@MaciekRutkowski Absolutely! Go for a 7-camber Neilpryde MKIV or any of the later VX series with a CK95 mast. It would definitely affect the acceleration issue you have addressed. Control will be a bit worse of course. Make sure not to use an oversized sail for the board as these had a much narrower range. Besied the Mistral, I'd also vote for an F2 Sputnik/Thommen, something around 105 litres.
@@MaciekRutkowski Maybe for comparison you can find an old Thommen board. Theses orange Mistral boards where already at this time more difficult to ride than others boards. Full set up would also be nice. Maybe you can find a board where the team rider in the 90ies was about your height and weight. Anyway great videos and interviews!
And old skool wave stuff I think would be very funny. For example the old Gaastra wave foil from Robby Naish.
Grasshop Hypnosis question is where do you find all this shit 😁😁
Great video . Really liked the idea
"No pads on this board. ... Not sure if they were not around." hahahah
So if you had more time on the old board?
One downvote by the guy who refuses to upgrade his Mistral. Great video - you at that first jibe mark was everybody in the 90s. I had a mid 90s slalom board and it set back my jibes 5 years.
F r e e l e e haha yes exactly! You should defo upgrade, new gear so much better!
@@MaciekRutkowski Oh, I wasn't that guy! Ha Ha. I upgraded a long time ago and very happy for it. You always get my upvotes. btw, love your interview style, too.
Fantastic!!!!!
To be able to beat all the other guys on a 20yo board says a lot more about the rider than the board. He's just that good.
Hey and Yeah, it is a cool board, I was surfing the SLE as limited edition in white color. Hard to turn, but speed is great and even if you loof into the wind, other boards cannot follow you.
Awesome 💪💪💪
Thanks for video, can you try same board with best fin and sail from that same era, the modern fin and modern sail you Used made that old board work much better. 😀
Maciek - In video fin and straps look to be same distance from backs of boards, but hard to tell, did you measure?
Steven Carter I measured but I already forgot - it was more or less similar, in the ballpark let’s say
Minute 3 pads were meant to protect the board from heel dents!
Great test. Interesting that you can achieve such a high speed. Thank god for easier gear these days. When teaching windsurfing I want pupils to: 1) quickly move on to a size smaller 2) feel the speed 3) not use dad's old gear.
Mathijs Broersma yes the old gear is a lot harder!! I thought it was clear in the video and now I get all these messages saying people want to buy old shit cause it’s the same speed 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🥵
@@MaciekRutkowski Yes, maybe they only hear the word 'speed'. On new gear you can sail longer, and progress faster.
When I tried a early 90's (? Npu) everyone in the Old school group said it was sooo fast. They could not have tried any sail from today. Even wave sails have the same or more power and MUCH more stability.
Niclas Kårlin you mean the stuff of today is better correct?
For sure!
The Sle came without pads. I had bic carbon 299 and 279 in -98 Still got the 279 and the 6.6 north iq sail...
Great video ! Compare more oldschool new school
Good old fast Mistral board
That was very interesting to follow. You probably didn't train on the gear for so long and probably didn't try different fins, different rakes, flex etc.. like with your slalom gear. To me actually the fin looked quite big for that narrow tail width, which would make jibing even more difficult. But that could be a wrong perception. So all this taking into account, I was astonished to see, that the old gear actually really did so well. So obiviously the old gear is still worth to be used and people can have a lot of fun on it. So is it worth to switch to new gear spent some 1000EUR for it? I doubt that this video will make people consider this change more than be before. It will be interesting to follow the comments and read what people say to it.
Jörg Schobi yeah somehow people think that this video says that the old board is still good, but I sail almost 300 days and year and I struggled to jibe and to do anything else then go straight basically - so is it maybe just a case of people seeing what they wanna see? 🤔🤔
@@MaciekRutkowski Yeah it has a lot to do with "people see what they want to see". I have had the disussion with some guys that they should change to long harness lines, because it is so much better. I wasn't very successfull . WRT to jibing, my experience is that many surfers just struggle to jibe. They are not capable of "lay down" pushing the rail and proper foot work. I am not convinced that jibing a new board especially much wider board, for these people without changing their technic or learning a new technic, will really be more succesfull.
In the slopes you still see guys with the skis locked together, it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks.
Says me who sailed since 1991, and have finally added a waist harness to the bag, but still use just 26" lines. All rest 1 to max 1 0 years (wave and slalom kits).
Jörg Schobi yes you’re right 90% of the people that struggle its because they dont commit. But if you’re on a magic carpet that feels super comfy i think you’re more likely to commit. Also new boards need less commitment to come out of the jibe planning, they simply have better glide + more volume in the tail so not so easy to sink and stop.
Niclas Kårlin but if you teach an old dog he’ll have a TON of fun again - just like in the old days!
You should have tried the Kinetic 276 from mit 90ies,, the best medium slalom board of the 90ies!
I have a Tiga slalom board from that Era carbon epoxy they only made 25
Try the Chapter fibreglass boards from the early 80’s
315 pintail winger and 270 swallow tail, with Gaastra non foiled sails! Then you’ll walk in our shoes 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🤓
Tyronsea TR300 speed for me :D
Sailed a custom fiberglass board, that was back when they were more surfboard than windsurfer :)
Nice video, cheers.
Świetny materiał.
perfect comparison!! I pissed off many users with brand new board because of your video. Especially when I overtake them with my 24year old Mistral Flow 103l :-) What is speed difference between Invictus and SLE?Did you say 0,5 or 1,5knt? What about mast comparison?I tried 30% and 100% carbon mast in slalom sail with same speed..have you ever tried it?thx
btw you should test the mistral stinger1991 , easy gibe don't worry !. myself used bic electric rock that time and won haha
So my Epoxy Seatrend 8’8” with carbon Fin Works Larry Tuttle fin isn’t a POS. It even has pads.
na początku myślałem, że trochę spóźniłeś się gdyż Nico wypuścił dziś rano podobny content ale jednak zmiażdżyłeś go :)
Sławomir Duda dajta mnie pół tego budżetu co on ma to będziem go miażdżyć co tydzień 😈😜
@@MaciekRutkowski Jego vlog jest martwy, napędzany nudnymi fiskalnymi relacjami. Twój vlog jest żywy, czerpie z twojego życia. Mam nadzieję że tak zostanie nawet jak będziesz miał kasę. Pytanie czy z klasą będziesz potrafił żyć?
Paweł Stempczyński hehe spokojnie kase na zycie mam i wydaje mi sie ze raczej klasy nie brakuje ale przydalby sie budzet jeszcze stricte na YT - na razie klade z wlasnej kielni i zobaczymy , sprawls mi to duzo funu!
Me gusta más la estética general de los 90's
Rewa? :) Nie no ta deska to już było coś...spróbuj starą ciężką alohe ;P ale fakt chyba musiałaby być deska jeszcze kilka lat świeższa i freestyle wave
How did you made 35 kn on this board😂Cool Video!!!!!
Tim Kroener I sat my ass down in the harness and pushed haha! 😁
Now you have to get your hand on winning custom from the nineties and compare it to both production boards. In all interviews, they said there was a huge gap in performance between custom and production. Let's see how much ? What if you could find one the board from KP's Czech/Californian shaper that contributate to defeat the terminator ???
Może jakiś film porównujący zawodników PWA do zawodników olimpijskich? Ciekawi mnie to strasznie jakie są różnice
What are the weight differences?
Its all about familiarity with the board. The two boards gybe a bit differently. Get used to them and they are not much different. The wider boards carry a bit more speed in/out the gybe. They DON'T plane better just faster.
So, these old boars were fast, but much harder to gibe?
Perhaps you should try some old Tiga 260 Slalom. It jibes much besser, than the Mistral.
The Tiga was the best highwind slalomboard of the 80s and 90s. Only problem: New sails don't fit to it, because of the position of the mast.
Hi, wich Headphones do you use?
Uemmel Fuemell Sony Walkman and a bunch of numbers 😜
It was great if you could test the same generation of sails, the ones without the "flat head" we are seeing today
yes this video went down so well I guess I gotta do the sail as well - just need another contest!
Interesting to see u flat out burn the new boards snd I think ur main complaint was the gybe, but looked like u tried to pivot which stalled it and u were not leaning so forward to commit t rail at the point in the video. Any board would stall in a pivot but less so if more tail volume. For me take away is u won with both so either ur way better than ur race buddies or it makes no difference new or old apart from gybe ease which U clearly got the hang of on the old board...And all at a fraction of the cost.