ODD ROTATE AND CLIMB 🤔 please read Description 👍🏻
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 жов 2023
- Looks like this Iberia A359 rotated to a point then the nose dropped and they pulled-up again 🤔 call for V1 too early? The tail looks like it dragged and then they literally hit the boosters and went into orbit - look at that climb rate 😮
Images show an unusual departure graph, you can clearly see the initial rotate (speed in yellow) with the crazy steep climb!
Any thoughts 🤷🏼♂️
A350 pilot here, this is an interesting one and as many of the comments have already said the rotate was performed too early, why is the interesting question. My guess from the eventual climb out is that power was set correctly, this aircraft is very light in relative terms as it’s on its way to Madrid in A350 terms that’s like a two minute walk to the shops so a long way from max Take off weight and probably under landing weight also. That leaves two common possible reasons, the first is an incorrect flap setting, so doing calculations for flap 2 or 3 and then departing in flap 1, this is unlikely as unlike the A320/330/340 family the takeoff config would trigger if there was a discrepancy between flap set and flap required, the next common error is a potential V1 versus VR split and the handling pilot rotated at V1 instead of the later VR speed, again this seems unlikely as LHR 27R is a long runway so unless the aircraft was heavy (already established it wasn’t) V1 and VR would normally be the same.
This leaves us in the realm of speculation and some pretty odd possibilities, the first is a bit of confusion with the 100 kts call, in all Airbus aircraft a call is made by the pilot monitoring at 100 kts, this is basically to separate the low speed to the high speed regime as any warnings after this speed are serious warnings for which a stop call could be appropriate, all other less serious warnings and cautions are inhibited above 100 kts. As this aircraft was light it could well be that it’s V speeds where only a little above 100 kts and the crew might have briefed this and simply got confused between the 100 kts call and the rotate call (the aircraft makes the V1 call on A350), the only other possible reason is the weight was calculated wrong by a few tons, however this is a long shot as the aircraft was very light anyway and the aircraft prevents you from putting in really silly figures.
So for my bet I’m going to say the rotate was started at 100 kts by accident, almost immediately the crew saw the error and stopped the rotate however perhaps a little professional pride prevented the handling pilot from lowering the nose back onto the runway, they then waited until the V1/VR call and continued the takeoff normally, it is unlikely that this would have been reported by either the pilots or ATC, it might get picked up by the flight data monitoring team but it’s unlikely to go further than the crew concerned and the training team which is a shame as I would like to know if I’m even slightly correct, as I said at the top an interesting one..
Can’t we just find the pilot and ask him?
They also didn't have strobes on when lining up, very odd
@johnmorris7815 - Always good to hear a detailed response from a subject matter expert. Much appreciated. Thanks.
Great insight. Best wishes
What about trim setting or W&B?
If I had to guess, finger trouble programming the vspeeds or takeoff weight resulting in Vr rotation speed that was too slow for the actual takeoff weight or actual flap setting. The engine thrust rating also sounded massively de-rated but that's normal for a short sector from a huge runway like LHR. It has nothing to do with V1 as that is simply the fastest speed you can safely reject the takeoff. It's the rotate call at Vr that is the likely culprit here. As its an Airbus it probably detected an airspeed issue shortly after rotation and automatically TOGAd the throttles as well.
Thought it was a clip from a display at Farnborough air show for a moment! Up you go son.
I was still thinking about this take-off the next day. It would have been scary being a passenger, would undermine confidence with flying Iberia. Thanks for posting Jerry. Great stream, thanks J & G. 😀
Couldn't watch it live and don't have the knowledge (as much as I wish I had), to explain what happened here. Safe to say in all my time being a BJTV member, I've never seen a takeoff like this one. Extraordinary.
That looked almost frightening
No 'almost' it was decidedly scary. I'd have been petrified it was going to stall.
half of me would have liked to be on that plane - the other half is glad I still on the ground
I’d have been rocking back forth sobbing I think 😱😂
0:36 around there if you zoom in enough, just after rotation the elevators are being used after the fail to get airborne straight away as if there was a slight panicked moment - the rotation was probably a few knots slow?
You can see the two lights just behind the elevators disappear as they are pulled up
Had I been in that plane I’d of thought we were going to stall or something.
And he’s still orbiting around the earth……
😂
🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀
Had this once on a flight from Portugal, thing went straight up was stuck in the seat! It was an Easyjet A320 if my memory serves me from Faro.
In the Airbus you've got to quite precisely target a 3°/s rotation. If the rate is less (e.g. 2°/s) because you haven't moved the joystick back enough, then it adds a distance between rotate and positive climb. If they did hit TOGA, which you might thinking about runway length, on a lightly loaded flight, especially if your a little aft heavy, you would get that exaggerated pitch-up.
Flying Iberia 7 years ago on a beautiful clear day, our A321 got down to about 50 feet at MAD, then levelled out, flew at 50ft along the entire runway and over the lights, then once we'd flown the whole runway the A321 pitched up just like this guy, (I assume with TOGA), we shot up like an elevators before levelling out quite harshly. The Captain and came on the PA, and without explanation said, "sorry for the delay, but we're going to fly around the city centre and you'll get a lovely tourist view before we land again". To be fair, we did fly around central Madrid and it was beautiful, but very weird.
Yes was like a Rocket strange take off too soon bet passengers tilted back on their seats Great last night Thanks jerry and Gilly 😊x
Ive been in a window seat on a plane that rocketed off like that. Watching landmarks get so small so quickly was quite the experience.
Wow that was really strange,,,, great catch Jerry 👍🏻
Interesting take off for sure!
Piloto divertido. Iberia 👌👍
Watching the input to the elevators after 0:29 , the movements got increasingly more wild and erratic, forcing the nose up, then down, and finally driving the alarming rate of climb. It looked like the aircraft needed more speed and distance down the runway in order to achieve Rotate successfully.
This is why take off calculations are so important!! Rotation speed was way too low!!!
And where exactly did you get the exact rotation speed from? Did you actually see the Performance calculations? Please share them
@@birdman4274 id call it the MCDU but whatever?
@@andrewlindop2606 he means on that plane and that flight lol you obviously really don't know what you are talking about.
Even Im saying blimey watching that😮!
@@holobolo1661 still all calculations have to be input into MCDU so 🤷♂️🤷♂️ still pilot error
Look at the elevators before it started to rotate. They went to full up long before it started rotating, and then started the rotate on its own. I think this was unexpectedly automated and the erratic fluttering movement is the manual input by the pilots to keep its AofA low enough that it didn't stall and crash. The steep climb out again seems automated which was rectified as the pilots increased the throttles, took control and levelled off. Something malfunctioned here or took over and had to be counteracted with manual pilot input.
I think the A350's have a V-Speed calculation issue with the airframe.
Not only for this take-off but for many landings as well.
Sometimes it just drop out of the sky just before touchdown.
Maybe it give erroneous stab trim and v-speed settings?
Wowzeez That Iberia A350 nearly had an Tailstrike after that horrifying takeoff.
Maybe Juan from Blancolirio could weigh in. If it's not filled with passengers and fuel it looks like a test flight showing off performance.
oooof, this is why I have a fear of flying!
But I LOVE watching your videos 🙏🏻
I realize that this is probably comparing apples and oranges, but I found it interesting to compare the take off roll and rotation of the Virgin A350-1000 which occurred at the 3:25:52 mark of the same show. The Virgin A350, to my eye, was 1) traveling much faster at rotation, 2) the rotation occurred much farther down the runway, and 3) the elevator inputs seemed to be much more gentle. Again, there are many other factors which could account for such differences, but it seemed to me that the Iberia was not at a fast enough speed to fly normally off the runway and that the rotation was attempted at a much earlier point in the runway than the Virgin A350 a couple of hours before.
@nickgray8667 - Good point Nick, very well described.
I agree about the comparative speed, the distance down the runway, and the heavy pilot input into the elevators, which seemed so excessive.
Even before the problems became more evident, Jerry himself commented immediately that the aircraft had lifted its nose early.
Proper gnarly 😮
Bloody airshow pilot i reckon 😂
Those XWbs got a good workout for sure.
Omg :O ... and there were people on there!? usually you see that kind of rotate ( climb) if it's just cargo. And as for that 'hesitant' moment before lift off... yes, odd for sure! I hope they get checked on that one.
New subscriber here -- perchance they set the horz stab trim to a higher than needed nose-up?!? This exact behavior (early rotation + high climb angle) is caused by too much take-off nose-up stab trim setting. Good thing they were able to power thru this, otherwise they might have stalled.
I'm also guessing that the plane rotated on its own (without the pilot pulling back), and that both pilots had that "oh sh*t moment" look on their faces... lol!
My guess. It was a fairly empty aircraft (judging by the climb gradient after take off). The First officer was maybe new and he began the initial rotation to quickly. The captain stepped in and arrested the rotation speed and maybe over corrected and was on the slower side. Either that or the V1 was close to 100kts and was briefed and that call cause confusion.. Just a guess
Dang son! That was crazy!
Anything to with the colour of the lights on the aircraft?
My first thought was that the aircraft was heavier than the crew planned for.
That Ibeira A350 didn't have his wingtip strobes nor landing lights on?!
They're in pre take off & take off checklists!
But of an odd one that. You can see elevator inputs quite early on, then the slow pitch up. It seemed to be an early rotation, near tail strike and then TOGA for climb out. The reason for the high positive rate is to get as much altitude as possible in the event of a low airspeed warning.
Once at a safe height they push the nose down and recover. It is amazing the climb rate these new generation wide body twins have. They are much lighter and have much more powerful engines.
I fly a Dimona and that has an incredible climb rate thanks to its high profile wings. It’s a power glider after all.
Looked like the classic - tail-heavy - departure.
Lucky there wasn't a tail strike, it was close!
Looked similar to tailstrike t/o test!
All I know is that 3 Minutes of Aviation is stealing this 😂
If there is one incontrovertible comment here this is it!
They have already 😂😂
Roller-coaster 😀
Crazy! I reckon the passengers would be frightened of this moment!😮
Trying to do the longest wheelie.
Maybe this is a job for a real pilot such a the Mentour guy or blancolirio. Would be great to see what an actual pilot has to say about this.
There is a video of a Maroc plane doing similar, well worse. The comments on that were similar, lots of wild guesses from people who didnt know much. I think Mentour Pilot did an analysis on it and it was caused by wake from a heavy taking off (or landing) on a runway at 45 degrees to the Maroc's and it was at the intersection. Obviously not the same here, but did a swan flap its wings wildly or something? What was the previous plane to take off?
I saw the video you were talking about recently and thought it looked like a similar situation. I believe the plane before was a Finnair A350 and to me it looked like quite a quick takeoff even for busy Heathrow. If you watch original video you will see what I mean. Then again what do I know
@@susanchoja6800 Someone has timestamped the original video so its easy to find. I think you are correct, the Finnair looked a large plane and the Iberian did a rolling start just 60 seconds after the Finnair. The Iberian rolled onto the runway fairly fast. What happened to Mañana Mañana?
Being this back into relevance following the tail stroke of the Air France a350 at Toronto. Wondering if there is a soft wear issue? Or rather a misunderstanding?
No strobes, no landing lights. It’s a weird takeoff for sure. Looked on the verge of a stall. Pilot prolly let his kid take the wheel.
The the Airbus A350 calculates takeoff thrust with FLex de-rate to put less stress on the engines. This gives quite a large V1 an Rotate split. About 10-15kts. It looks like V1 was called, where the pilot flying takes his hands off the trust levers so he cannot reject the take off and then waits for Vr speed to rotate. Here the pilot flying may have rotated at the V1 speed about 10-15kts early and therefore had to pause mid rotate to gain the speed needed to fly away at Vr. Simple brain fart but quite dramatic.
@Airforceproud95 was at the controls.
I'd love to know what any Pilots out there think on this one.
For my own two bob's worth, I think the TOGA button was pushed after the nose started to drop.
The TOGA buttons were pressed then the nose pitches up, a consequence of the extra thrust.
@@ThePorkypete51 Shouldn't the TOGA buttons have already been pressed for the TO?
@@beeble2003 No, in Airbus for 99% of the takeoffs you move the throttle to the FLEX detent. TOGA is only used when the aircraft is too heavy/runway shorter or during go-arounds.
Yah: I flew on an a320 200 ceo yesterday with the ice engines climbed out at 5600 feet per minute, absolutely awesome
Wow! That’d be a bit scary I imagine!
Definitely in a hurry, straight on the power and the flaps at the rear of the elevators were up around 15 seconds after power up. That climb out did look pretty steep. The airbus would have prevented a stall but still, that was steep. 787s tend to do a long run before rotating. If it was empty, yeah okay, but that is not a good way to put any passengers at ease.
The elevator weirdly started going up at 0:31 that’s super slow, it’s still accelerating. So strange. Then it went back down again at 0:38 then back up again.
It reminded me of a glider being winch launched.
0:39 I think the pilot heard Jerry.🤣
Looks like they tried lifting the nose too early. The elevators were engaged fairly prematurely! Then when they finally got the required airspeed, it caused the plane to rocket upwards. The whole sequence certainly didnt look planned at all.
If the line 'Put her on the roof' in The Hunt for ared October was manifested for a passenger plane. She went up like a cork!
Is it just an optical illusion or does it look like the jet pulls to the left as it starts to ascend?
Could this be ome for the eagle eyes of @mentourpilot?
Surely he should have been going alot faster perhaps. He looked very laboured before actual take off😮
l have noticed some very strange flight activity the last few weeks, tons of military flight going over head l live in north London, and lots of emergency landings and diverts l follow on flight radar hmmm
That was scary to watch live last night.
In the description you ask "call for V1 too early?" You probably mean Vr not V1. It could have been the PM called out "rotate" (Vr) instead of V1 by error or they had a wrong trim setting so the plane tried to rake off "by itself" and the PF had to push the the stick forward in order to keep her on the ground.
For the steep climb, I assume they only did a short hop down to Spain, which an A359 can do with literally almost empty fuel tanks i.e low take off weight. Hence the steep climb, which appeared even steeper due to the extremly zoomed in camera lense.
I think it was a newbie pilot myself. They were given the controls and told to go for it! And indeed they did!
My mouth was wide open when I watched it live and it was wide open once again, very strange indeed!
It was a bonkers take off!
He seems keen to get up in the Air
ThunderBird's are GO..
This would be absolutely terrifying for the passengers
Or fun. I'm that annoying passenger that says 'Look Ma, no hands, no hands, wheeeee!!'
@@LadyJoolree I think even frequent flyers would be scared in this takeoff I’m not gonna lie🤣🤣
This is typical Iberia.. had a similar takeoff out of Madrid on their 340 a few years ago. Very unsafe airline
Noticed no wing lights on, that's standard for Airbus departure right? So much is going on here!
Omg that was so steep
No strobes either, obviously rushing to get back for dinner 🙃
Well, the food is better in Madrid!
I watched the video WITHOUT reading the description. Ha...take that!
Maybe the pilot's seat slid back!
I think the beer trolley rolled to the back of the aircraft. Thats my theory
He probably wanted to do a vertical takeoff 🤔
Wow that's a very steep climb, almost 6 000 feet per minute, the highest climb of more than 5 000 feet per minute, similar to the Boeing 777X, but more higher and pitch, 6 000 feet per minute. I notice the pilot rotate, but couldn't takeoff because not enough speed. But on a 2nd rotate, it takeoff and it climb steeply. The speed of the takeoff is more than 160 knots.
bro was like the 777x at Farnborough air show
first words are Jezza saying goodbye to me haha!
Scary, but I’m glad they had a safe flight. I tracked it until they landed.
RIP those passenger ears 😂
TOWER THIS IS GHOST RIDER. REQUESTING A WHEELIE.
Rotation speed looked far too low. Well captured in low light conditions. Odd indeed.
Manually rotated far too early?
If it was automatic, then the wrong parameters were set into the flight computer.
Is there such a thing as automatic rotation? Isn't the PF always in manual control at that point?
God that must've felt like being in the Vomit Comet! Crazy!
Almost a wheelie
Just ate my tea then watched clip…… Nearly saw my tea again!🥱🤮🤢
Just to put my view across, I think an average take off takes around 30 seconds and that took off around 20! Looked like an aborted take off then decided they couldn’t stop and had to commit…? Lucky the plane didn’t stall at that steep climb and low speed?
Without it being filmed here, would they have an internal investigation anyway?
Love the channel keep up the great work 😁
It looks like the tail dragged. Check that reg. no. for activity after this flight. No activity no fly-ee ... damage report Kapitan!
Terrifying
First officer on first flight beyond simulator?
I believe Airbus aircraft will not allow the pilot to over control the aircraft and will not allow the pilot to climb without sufficient air speed & or too high angle of attack that will stall the wing. I wonder if this protection kicked in. Perhaps Screaming EMU can confirm Airbus has this system?
Be interesting to see if it results in a report to the AAIB. I thought it was going to stall and bang in, but the Airbus software kept it going until there was enough speed to climb away.
The airplane will have been in direct law at that point, right? IIRC there's very minimal software protection until a certain altitude (400ft or so?).
Sure looks like Airbus FBW saved a lot of trouble that night.
Another thing to note is that the landing lights remained off, as were the strobes. Rotated far too early, possible v-speed miscalculation. I believe the A350 has a system in place that automatically prevents over-rotation much like the latter build 77Ws (which have software instead of physical tailstrike guards on the tail). I would strongly suggest Iberia performs an alcohol/drugs test upon arrival as this performance is a possible indicator of a rushed and unprepared crew who may have possibly been intoxicated.
Ex-Typhoon pilot.
Maybe he some pax that were in a bad mood. He wanted to cheer them up a bit and put a smile back in there faces
End of runway lights looked much closer than they really were. Pilot fatigue possibly also.
Totally weird. 😮
rotate and climb. flip and land.
almost vertical up climb weird really scary i think being inside as passenger😅
It's not remotely "almost vertical". That's just an optical illusion from the long lens.
@@beeble2003 the graph did show steep
@@krisssal The horizontal scale of the graph covers almost two hours. The occurrence happened in less than a minute, which is less than 1% of the width of the graph. Any aircraft that got into the air would look steep on that scale.