I don't know if these guys will be strong, I think it's a matter of great on paper, but there's significantly less ways of earning their noble deeds, so it might be "phantom power". Will be interesting to see how they go though
It was great to see you at UKGE Rob! I didn't get the chance to say hello, you looked deep in conversation, but it looked like your were having a good old time! :D
A unit can't use the same ability more than once in the same phase, unless otherwise specified. This means Reikenor the Grimhailer doesn't deal infinite damage, but also means you can only return 1 model per hero by spending noble deed points each of your movement phases.
I think that's right. We still haven't fully seen what's going on. The only counter argument is that it doesn't specify once per turn and some abilities do. So why the distinction? We don't know for sure yet
@@markpandelidis2079 Their Finest Hour has the "Once Per Turn (Army)" tag. If this one had the same, you couldn't use it with 2 different heroes. Since it lacks the tag, it can be used once per hero. I don't think we've seen a "Once Per Turn" tag without the "(Army)" affix in a battle trait. I don't think it'd make sense, as they're attached to the army and you can't have multiple armies in your game, so without the "Army" affix, it would function the same. So yeah, the distinction is: Since it's not once per turn, you can use it with multiple different heroes.
@@Marhathor ya upon further investigation, it seems that warscroll abilities, command abilities and core abilities are going to be usable only once per unit per turn/phase. But battle trait abilities will have multi use. It's sloppy honestly. I don't like that you have to remember that most abilities are going to be once but some aren't and all the other different clauses (once per turn, once per battle etc) It would have been 10000% better if EVERY ability could be used once and then have the distinction if it's per phase, turn etc. And if an ability is meant to be used by all your units then you write it in like they did for the heal etc. This is a big mistake for 4th in my opinion
Your examples don't make sense since Reikenors ability is a spell and its effect is do X then X. That's not unlimited damage. And since we're seeing that battle traits don't have the once per turn clause, something like revive from muster and the trampling charge from Ogors can be used multiple times. Just has to be a different unit. Rob didn't say you could revive 3 knights from the same hero
@@markpandelidis2079 3:34 Yes, he did. No, Reikenor's ability isn't a spell, I'm obviously talking about Corpse Candles, which was discussed to have infinite damage in Rob's Nighthaunt FF video. "And since we're seeing that battle traits don't have the once per turn clause, something like revive from muster and the trampling charge from Ogors can be used multiple times." is just repeating exactly what I said, so I don't see what your point is. There are battle traits, like the one I mentioned (Their Finest Hour), that do have the Once Per Turn (Army) clause. It's hardly sloppy, you just have to remember the 3 "Rules of One": 1. A unit can't use more than 1 core ability per phase. 2. A unit can't use the same ability more than once per phase. 3. A unit can't benefit from the same passive ability twice (even from multiple different sources). Rule 2 is important here. Muster Guard specifies that you must pick a unit to use the ability. It lets you return 1 model and is then resolved. You can't use it again with that hero, as that hero is a unit that has already used the ability earlier in the phase. Same way Reikenor can't use Corpse Candles if he's done that before in the same phase. Same with Trampling Charge, where again, you pick a unit that "uses the ability". Once Per Turn (Army) means you can't use the ability twice with 2 of the same unit, and Once Per Turn becomes redundant, as a core rule states you can't use an ability more than once per phase with the same unit, hence Reikenor can't spam Corpse Candles, this helps streamline abilities, so they can just say "Any Hero Phase", instead of "Once Per Turn, Any Hero Phase". Just think of battle traits as extra abilities on the warscrolls of units that can be picked to use them, that just aren't actually printed on them as, since the entire army can use them, it's easier to just put them in one place. (Also prevents allies from using them). Clear enough?
I would suggest that "The Grand Tournament" part of Ushoran's Epicentre of Delusion ability will see a lot of use turn 1 as it seems like a great way to stack Noble Deed points on your heroes early.
This is what we call a joke. The rule is literally called "Summon Loyal Subjects". I'm sorry it needs explained to you. I actually don't need rules mansplaned to me. I'm sorry you feel the need to fall on the sword of defending a game so agressively. I'm going to continue having fun over here in spite of you and your negativity. What ever it is that is making you sad and angry, I hope it resolves for you, because it shouldn't be a game that's meant to bring joy.
I'm a bit confused by the Corpsemare Stampede's mortals? Will it only ever do 2 or 3 mortals due to needing a 2+ on a D3 to actually do the mortal wounds?
I was thinking about starting AOS with this edition using Soulblight Gravelords for that necromancer/death knight feel. Do you think flesheaters courts might top that? I really like their lore.
Woah woah woah can someone show me the rule for that “war master.” Keyword leak? He glanced over it but if what he said was right that’s an important rule
Big sad about wise oration going away. Hopefully we have another way to generate points coming in 4th edition. Fighting with courtiers sounds good on paper but it’s not a good choice in most situations. They die too easily on the fight back, and if they don’t, they die in your opponents turn in return.
that's why i don't like this noble deed thing in this army... most time they make almost no damage, then they die to fast and after that you have no possibility to bring back models without heroes and your army is f*cking weak now
Hey Rob, could you please confirm if I order the objective markers for the EU, will additional charges and VAT apply or is the product Deliver Duties Paid? I'd love to support you but rather have no surprises.
Been watching your faction focus's all day (loving the content) going into aos4 new to playing aos old time hobbyist, but what I've noticed is that when you say in any charge phase meaning all charge phases, is that the ability requires you to already be in combat so you wouldn't be able to pop it on your squishy hero to save him from your opponents charge phase unless he's already survived one round of combat and with some of high saves and wounds doesn't seem so likely? 🤔
I haven't got anything constructive to offer about FEC, but I feel guilty not leaving a comment. So I'll just shout out how much I love cheeky Rob and his thumbs in the cheesy thumbnails.
Rob you kept saying on a 2+ D3 mortal wounds. If I’m not mistaken it’s roll a d3 and on a 2+ on the d3 roll it does either 2 or 3 mortal dmg. So 1s on the d3 don’t do any dmg
Im watching each of yours army reviews and I need to say I'm so disappointed with tzeentch. Random uschran wizard 2 Powerfull nagash wizard 9 Kairos wizard 3.... like wtf, magic army,best caster with level 3 only?! Plus making horror and spaws returning just as reincarnation seems as such a nerf.. it looks like you need put extra effort just to get then compared to previous version. Blue horrors needs to die before pink ones, but cannot die completely. You need to spend points for the spawns if you need to utilize those spells. The burning effect is nice, but nerfing horrors, spawns, kairos dice generator is so meeehhhh I thought that maybe tzeent will be able to pick to manifestations or spell lores or sth. But instead it is harder to utilize this army plus their not so magic after all
This makes me think that GW didn’t sell enough Ushoran or Crypt Guard kits. This whole thing makes me sad because I feel like this is telling you what list to build, or at least a large chunk of it. I am feeling more and more like AoS4 is not for me. I have an FEC army, and nothing about this reveal makes me want to play it. It feels like playing MtG but with a tiny card pool to build your deck/list, and then you act out the battles with minis. There’s so many good miniature games out there, but this isn’t shaping up to be one of them.
These rules were written before usharon was even for sale, usharon does kinda feel like an auto include but we'll have to see if that will be the case ^^ Otherwise it doesn't feel really different from our current rules and I can't wait to run a dragon list ^^
Ushuron being an auto include is my exact point. If I want the flavor of FEC, I have to take him. That’s lazy design and will lead to more uniformity of lists and less fun building and playing the army (or playing against the army). People like it; that’s fine. I don’t and I am trying to articulate why and that I feel like there are better ways for me to spend my hobby time and hobby money and have more fun playing games. And it saddens me that something I put a lot of time and love into is no longer interesting to me because of the type of game that AoS4 appears to be.
@@Strange8ractor i understand, I'm gonna wait and see, and worst case homebrew it or play aos3 again I really hope these center pieces won't be as auto include as we think but we can only tell once we play it
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This aged like a fine milk.
Just saw the fyreslayers, they look even stronkkker!
I don't know if these guys will be strong, I think it's a matter of great on paper, but there's significantly less ways of earning their noble deeds, so it might be "phantom power". Will be interesting to see how they go though
Drink each time Rob says 'Deed Points'
HOT GHOUL SUMMER LETS GO
So are you planning on announcing which faction feature you think has been the best when they are all released?
Defo
Focus tier list
It was great to see you at UKGE Rob! I didn't get the chance to say hello, you looked deep in conversation, but it looked like your were having a good old time! :D
A unit can't use the same ability more than once in the same phase, unless otherwise specified. This means Reikenor the Grimhailer doesn't deal infinite damage, but also means you can only return 1 model per hero by spending noble deed points each of your movement phases.
I think that's right. We still haven't fully seen what's going on. The only counter argument is that it doesn't specify once per turn and some abilities do. So why the distinction? We don't know for sure yet
@@markpandelidis2079 Their Finest Hour has the "Once Per Turn (Army)" tag. If this one had the same, you couldn't use it with 2 different heroes. Since it lacks the tag, it can be used once per hero. I don't think we've seen a "Once Per Turn" tag without the "(Army)" affix in a battle trait. I don't think it'd make sense, as they're attached to the army and you can't have multiple armies in your game, so without the "Army" affix, it would function the same.
So yeah, the distinction is: Since it's not once per turn, you can use it with multiple different heroes.
@@Marhathor ya upon further investigation, it seems that warscroll abilities, command abilities and core abilities are going to be usable only once per unit per turn/phase. But battle trait abilities will have multi use.
It's sloppy honestly. I don't like that you have to remember that most abilities are going to be once but some aren't and all the other different clauses (once per turn, once per battle etc)
It would have been 10000% better if EVERY ability could be used once and then have the distinction if it's per phase, turn etc. And if an ability is meant to be used by all your units then you write it in like they did for the heal etc. This is a big mistake for 4th in my opinion
Your examples don't make sense since Reikenors ability is a spell and its effect is do X then X. That's not unlimited damage. And since we're seeing that battle traits don't have the once per turn clause, something like revive from muster and the trampling charge from Ogors can be used multiple times. Just has to be a different unit. Rob didn't say you could revive 3 knights from the same hero
@@markpandelidis2079 3:34 Yes, he did. No, Reikenor's ability isn't a spell, I'm obviously talking about Corpse Candles, which was discussed to have infinite damage in Rob's Nighthaunt FF video. "And since we're seeing that battle traits don't have the once per turn clause, something like revive from muster and the trampling charge from Ogors can be used multiple times." is just repeating exactly what I said, so I don't see what your point is. There are battle traits, like the one I mentioned (Their Finest Hour), that do have the Once Per Turn (Army) clause.
It's hardly sloppy, you just have to remember the 3 "Rules of One":
1. A unit can't use more than 1 core ability per phase.
2. A unit can't use the same ability more than once per phase.
3. A unit can't benefit from the same passive ability twice (even from multiple different sources).
Rule 2 is important here. Muster Guard specifies that you must pick a unit to use the ability. It lets you return 1 model and is then resolved. You can't use it again with that hero, as that hero is a unit that has already used the ability earlier in the phase. Same way Reikenor can't use Corpse Candles if he's done that before in the same phase. Same with Trampling Charge, where again, you pick a unit that "uses the ability". Once Per Turn (Army) means you can't use the ability twice with 2 of the same unit, and Once Per Turn becomes redundant, as a core rule states you can't use an ability more than once per phase with the same unit, hence Reikenor can't spam Corpse Candles, this helps streamline abilities, so they can just say "Any Hero Phase", instead of "Once Per Turn, Any Hero Phase".
Just think of battle traits as extra abilities on the warscrolls of units that can be picked to use them, that just aren't actually printed on them as, since the entire army can use them, it's easier to just put them in one place. (Also prevents allies from using them).
Clear enough?
Love the video!
I would suggest that "The Grand Tournament" part of Ushoran's Epicentre of Delusion ability will see a lot of use turn 1 as it seems like a great way to stack Noble Deed points on your heroes early.
Tzeentch Preview: "there is no more summoning units to the battlefield"
FEC Preview: "so, let me tell you about summoning...."
@@dn8617 inciteful.
Fec had no summoning
This is what we call a joke. The rule is literally called "Summon Loyal Subjects". I'm sorry it needs explained to you. I actually don't need rules mansplaned to me. I'm sorry you feel the need to fall on the sword of defending a game so agressively. I'm going to continue having fun over here in spite of you and your negativity. What ever it is that is making you sad and angry, I hope it resolves for you, because it shouldn't be a game that's meant to bring joy.
I'm a bit confused by the Corpsemare Stampede's mortals? Will it only ever do 2 or 3 mortals due to needing a 2+ on a D3 to actually do the mortal wounds?
A 2 on a d6 is 1 mortal wounds
@@jtowensbyiii6018 the issue is that it says "roll a d3." A 2+ on a d3 is a 3 through 6 showing on the actual face of the dice.
Yes only 2 or 3
I was thinking about starting AOS with this edition using Soulblight Gravelords for that necromancer/death knight feel. Do you think flesheaters courts might top that? I really like their lore.
Cruel of them to release this on a Friday and have to wait all weekend for your video! Think I found my army for 4th! Cheers!
Well I am a bit more hopeful that there will be some more theme once the full indices are released
What about Terrorgheist in 4.0 in comparison to Zombie dragon? Which one seems to be better?
6 mortal wounds is almost always exclusively better when you have multiple chances to do it
notice how every cavalry unit gained 1 hp. I am sensing a pattern
Definitely
surely GW would never just figure out a new template and try and apply it to everything!
I was waiting for this one thanks 👍
man was i waiting for this
Woah woah woah can someone show me the rule for that “war master.” Keyword leak? He glanced over it but if what he said was right that’s an important rule
We don't know yet
so sad they took the stonehorn's rampage and gave it to the dragon...
I noticed you skipped the morbeghs at the end. Is it confirmed spearhead warsctolls are going to be different than full game warscrolls
Different enough to pay no notice
@@thehonestwargamerstreams
Got it, thank you for the response!
Big sad about wise oration going away. Hopefully we have another way to generate points coming in 4th edition. Fighting with courtiers sounds good on paper but it’s not a good choice in most situations. They die too easily on the fight back, and if they don’t, they die in your opponents turn in return.
that's why i don't like this noble deed thing in this army... most time they make almost no damage, then they die to fast and after that you have no possibility to bring back models without heroes and your army is f*cking weak now
Hey Rob, could you please confirm if I order the objective markers for the EU, will additional charges and VAT apply or is the product Deliver Duties Paid? I'd love to support you but rather have no surprises.
Sadly you may be subject to import tax. I'm sorry about my country and Brexit. I'm taking some to AOS worlds if that helps?
Been watching your faction focus's all day (loving the content) going into aos4 new to playing aos old time hobbyist, but what I've noticed is that when you say in any charge phase meaning all charge phases, is that the ability requires you to already be in combat so you wouldn't be able to pop it on your squishy hero to save him from your opponents charge phase unless he's already survived one round of combat and with some of high saves and wounds doesn't seem so likely? 🤔
He doesn't miss.
I haven't got anything constructive to offer about FEC, but I feel guilty not leaving a comment.
So I'll just shout out how much I love cheeky Rob and his thumbs in the cheesy thumbnails.
loving the faction previews :)
Rob you kept saying on a 2+ D3 mortal wounds. If I’m not mistaken it’s roll a d3 and on a 2+ on the d3 roll it does either 2 or 3 mortal dmg. So 1s on the d3 don’t do any dmg
Yes boss. I'm sorry if that's not clear
Is it just me or does FEC seem at risk of being broken good?
Yesssss
Blocks of two, four heroes too.
Guess I’ll try using my FEC in 4e….
Im watching each of yours army reviews and I need to say I'm so disappointed with tzeentch.
Random uschran wizard 2
Powerfull nagash wizard 9
Kairos wizard 3.... like wtf, magic army,best caster with level 3 only?!
Plus making horror and spaws returning just as reincarnation seems as such a nerf.. it looks like you need put extra effort just to get then compared to previous version. Blue horrors needs to die before pink ones, but cannot die completely. You need to spend points for the spawns if you need to utilize those spells. The burning effect is nice, but nerfing horrors, spawns, kairos dice generator is so meeehhhh
I thought that maybe tzeent will be able to pick to manifestations or spell lores or sth. But instead it is harder to utilize this army plus their not so magic after all
Sigh... another army I want to collect now. AoS is too full of cool armies
Ghouls are meant to be cannibals without any real sticking power. 😂😂😂
Noble Deeds-nuts
fec i missed this one!
I like how it seems they leaned into the undead bretonnian feel with this index.
Checks last month's haul:
FEC Army Set
Ushoran
Royal Beastflayers
Yep, I think I'm good for now.
This seems a bit broken.. these better be expensive point wise
This makes me think that GW didn’t sell enough Ushoran or Crypt Guard kits. This whole thing makes me sad because I feel like this is telling you what list to build, or at least a large chunk of it. I am feeling more and more like AoS4 is not for me. I have an FEC army, and nothing about this reveal makes me want to play it. It feels like playing MtG but with a tiny card pool to build your deck/list, and then you act out the battles with minis. There’s so many good miniature games out there, but this isn’t shaping up to be one of them.
These rules were written before usharon was even for sale, usharon does kinda feel like an auto include but we'll have to see if that will be the case ^^
Otherwise it doesn't feel really different from our current rules and I can't wait to run a dragon list ^^
Ushuron being an auto include is my exact point. If I want the flavor of FEC, I have to take him. That’s lazy design and will lead to more uniformity of lists and less fun building and playing the army (or playing against the army). People like it; that’s fine. I don’t and I am trying to articulate why and that I feel like there are better ways for me to spend my hobby time and hobby money and have more fun playing games. And it saddens me that something I put a lot of time and love into is no longer interesting to me because of the type of game that AoS4 appears to be.
@@Strange8ractor i understand, I'm gonna wait and see, and worst case homebrew it or play aos3 again
I really hope these center pieces won't be as auto include as we think but we can only tell once we play it
I hear ya. I'm still trying to hold on to a little bit of hope.
Haha the gore splattered hunters ability is badly written, why not just write how to declare and the effect like other abilities?
Looks aggressively mediocre to me.