BLOOD AND CHEESE: Could It Have Been Better in House Of The Dragon?
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- I review, breakdown and explain House Of The Dragon Season 2 Episode 1. I react to Blood and Cheese and discuss if the game of thrones spin off failed in delivering a stand out moment in the book. I compare the scene between the book and the HBO show and also answer what the similarities and differences were. I also give my theories and predictions on how it will impact episode 2.
00:00 Intro
00:56 Blood And Cheese In The Show VS The Book
03:17 The Importance Of Phia Saban's Performance
05:12 The Contrast In Pacing
06:00 Did Blood And Cheese Work And Could It Have Been Better?
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Music: Lazy Walk - Cheel
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Are you happy with how Blood And Cheese was handled in House Of The Dragon? Let me know your thoughts below!
No. They cut out Maelor, wouldn't show the actual kill, and we had to see Alicent getting piped instead.
Completely underwhelming. Not impressed at all
Very underwhelming. Lacked impact. 1.5 seconds of knife sounds wasn’t enough really. Need to feel more trauma like the characters would. Is this not set in a cruel medieval world?
I feel like they should have made the scene of blood and chesse more tragic like when they killed jaehaerys, helaena would have screamed NOOOO! Then the scene would cut to alicent and criston cole in bed and alicent say "what was that" or "was that helaena" then the next scene would show Helaena running to her mother's bedroom with jaehaera sobbing and crying and she says "they kill the boy" or "they kill my son"
The issue was the choice of which son was the biggest part. They could easily identify which is male vs female. Having picked maelor and him knowing his mother picked him is what sticks to her.
Taking away her choice was a mistake.. I don’t need to see a kid getting his head chopped off - but the choice *at least* is what should’ve stayed.
And I’ve seen people in shock and the whole “The boy is dead” was a little underwhelming too with the delivery. This was their red wedding and they messed it up.
Yeah. It's just weird that she's missing a son in this show. I don't need to see the decapitation or whatever it was. But the emotional impact is in having her choose and then having to live with her choices.
the only way this flat delivery could be redeemed is if bloodraven somehow accidentally spoke out loud through her as he was watching them, but of course this is not going to happen.
i blame ryan condal for this line. i can't imagine the actress redeeming it either. the line itself is quite flat.
She portrayed as autistic of course her delivery is supposed to lack emotion she has very little empathy but the choice is going to tear her apart over time which will lead to her suicide..
@dcluvspie5777 I know she’s not all there but the actress could’ve done a better job or they could’ve used another take.
@@firstlast9846
maybe she just cringed so hard seeing alicent and krispy 😹
To me, it was very underwhelming. Especially because I've seen what they can do with episodes like the Red Wedding. But that's just me!
That's fair. I'm hoping we're going to get something on that scale towards the season!
Best example you can give tbh.. imagine the Red Wedding if they took out Katelyn’s plead for Rob’s life if he leaves the hall - and his choice to stay gets him killed. It’s literally the same - you remove choice - you remove the impact of these characters facing trauma.
@BrainPilot I do agree with you about Halaena. It will be so sad to see her unravel after she fully registers everything she has just witnessed. But I do look forward to the rest of the season! Thanks for all your hard work on these videos 😊
@firstlast9846 I was just expecting a lot more from how brutal the scene actually was in the books. Of course, maybe not show the full scale of it. But for me, the most impactful part of the scene was making her choose between the boys. But then, when I realized Maelor hadn't been born yet, idk a missed opportunity, I think 😅
The scene was awful,we expected more.
Why would they choose to tune it down ,who watches this show not expecting gore,thats just poor writing nothing more.
Kind of a bummer they cut Maelor from the show, it’s more gutwrenching that she picks him because Jaeharys is the heir and then Cheese fucks with Maelor about mommy wanting him dead before Blood lops off Jaehaerys’ head.
The idea that the surviving child knows their parent chose them to die over their sibling would really mess with their head. It was much darker and intense in the book.
I feel like it enhances the story! Halena probably isn't going to be fit to have another child, so that leaves Aegon having to either name his brother heir, or his daughter, just like his father before him. Was the books more dramatic? Yes absolutely. But does it add to the story like this does? I'm not sure it does.
This guy literally copy and pasted the top comment word for word from think story's video on this 1 day ago lmfao you are so pathetic dude
@@WrathOfTheShaftthis didn’t add to the story.
@@hclw3589they literally just explained how
@@WrathOfTheShaft Damn I did not think of that. That's actually a really good plot point they could use moving forward.
I think they made the smart decision to not show the actual act because it really wasn't necessary. I do think that the absence of Maelor and specifically Alicent was a missed chance for added emotional stakes
It wasn’t necessary, but we heard it. He heard it happening out of frame. That’s brutal.
most sane criticism of the adaptation I've read so far on the internet. In essence, I dont get how apparently a lot of fans think the scene was bad by any meaning. Could it have been better? For sure. But imo it would be insane to call it underwhelming or bad or anything like that
The reaction wasn't the problem nor was the lack of gore, the problem was taking the cruelty of the act and the choice between sons, even more the betrayal on her choice/the lack of agency at the end of the deal, the idea of making her regret trying such an strategic move (even if you can argue its also the smartest option, its cruel regardless and that makes the choice a terrible one) its not a bad adaptation of the scene but the context make it all feel much different and it become its own thing, separated from the source material and its odd
I would agree with this. I don’t mind not seeing the act but it really didn’t hit me as much as it did in the book. Alicent getting her groove on didn’t help lol
It did work. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been. The book is told by the point of view of historians but the show is supposed to be the real telling. Not the telling of Mushroom and the Grand maester.
The moment I realized this show was doomed was when they had Rhaenys pop up with Meleys killing hundreds in the Dragonpit just because Sarah Hess thought "it would be cool". All these stupid changes from the lore and for what? Not only was this adaptation of Blood and Cheese disrespectful to George's work, but massivly underwhelming imo.
I have to agree, when Rhaenys popped out I just thought "Oh god no here we go". I'm worried
Once again the book was written from the perspective of a maester who didn’t see the events unfold just heard stories and George is fully on board with this series and has been working with the producers to make it as good as it can be.
idk people be watching a show that is consistently seven out of tens, most of the time more like an 8, peaking in 9s and 10s regularly - then they see debateable scene, bad by some standards and metrics, disliked by some but not at all disastrous in any sane meaning of the word and still, they'll go their merry way and act like it's the doomsday for ASOIF on TV or smth
Lol I'm sure George rr Martin was alright with the change.
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
The reason why maybe people didnt like helenas reaction is that hollywood tought us how it should look like. Now if you see it portrayed differently it feels wrong. But in my opinion it was the best reaction suited to her character. She is portrayed as young, slightly autistic and loving mother and at the moment her instinct is freeze and than run, she doesnt even have time to comprehend what actually happend
Thank you exactly you get what they were going for.
Slightly? I'm autistic but she's on another level lol
I get what you mean. But her just calmly saying "they killed the boy" doesn't fit with her being in shock. It felt weird and they honestly screwed up the entire scene imo
@@Ralph-vh8resomething called shock
@@Ralph-vh8re You don’t understand how Autism works do you…
I would believe Helena reaction more if I hadn't seen her have a more viscrel reaction to the beheading last season.
tbh theres going to be so much gruesome death coming, im glad they made the actual children dying a bit easier to swallow, the fact people wanted to watch a child be brutally murdered & are disappointed is a bit shocking like - changing aspects of the book is (in my opinion) better bc its from the view of the main players and what actually happened instead of the book being 3 perspectives & based off gossip - i liked the change i was as mortified as reading the scene in the book and equally shocked
We are more mad at her lack of emotions rather than the gruesome scene
We know what happen and how
We dont need to see a child being murder
Is her emotionless behavior and calling her own son
Like It was nothing
Ohh the boy is dead
@@laurafabianmarrero I have a feeling the lack of emotion in the moment is going to pay off, she was in shock & the episode ended after she finally got a minute to breathe.
I agree it was a bit eh the boy?! He’s your son! But she reacted instantly to Daemon slicing Vaemond’s head off in season 1 so there’s a reason she didn’t just start screaming and being hysterical in this moment.
@@geo9278 is not the same even if she reacted about vaemong getting his head cut off
Even his on family didnt care
This is different cause It was her son
She watch her son die and all we got was the boy just die
I get they made her autistic
So she reacts different
But is felt off
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
@@maliceinwonderland00 yes thank you!!!!
Healena's reaction honestly made sense with how her character has been portrayed in the show so far. It seems like a lot of people wanted her to be louder about not wanting her son to die but she has always been very quiet and kept to herself. That's exactly why the other characters barely ever seem to notice her or care about her. So, that scene at the end of episode 1 was nice.
Also, Haelena has an autistic (maybe?) So don't expect her having the same reaction like Caitly in Red Wedding or when Cersei is freaking out when she sees Joffrey is getting poisoned
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
I expected that there will be something like the Sept of Baelor explosion. A heavy tension, little talking and amazig music
Phia was amazing. I think the scene was fine as tastefully as possible. Heleana froze & retreated during Vaemond’s death. Her actions were in character.
Yeah I thought she did a great job in this scene
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
I'm disconcerted by the amount of folks disappointed they didn't SEE the child die. I've been pleased by the way HOD has used gore to tell their story, without relishing in it the way that GOT sometimes did (veering into torture p*rn territory in S5 in my opinion). They communicated well with sound, Helaena's face - as BrainPilot said - our minds can do the worst anyway. I'm not sure this is their "Red Wedding" - as some folks are saying - I think we'll build to that during the war.
HBO and condal missed the trick with blood and cheese and why they butchered such a gruesome moment ?
That segment should have been at least 15-20 minutes long. They should have adapted the same scene and dialogues and scenarios from the book for this scene.
This segment had the potential to become more disturbing and shocking moments like red wedding , beheading of ned stark ….but they toned down this scene for I don’t know why !!
This is the same HBO in which a crippled man stabs a pregnant women in the belly and killed her before her husband’s eyes , then kills a boy in front of mother and later on slices the mother’s throat…
But in HOTD they are just impossible 🤬
Why game of thrones was such a banger ? Because of its story line and story telling in the initial seasons as well as they showed us the scenes like red wedding, beheading of the ned stark , mountain and elia , death of oberyn . The shock value of this scenes was humongous and made people talk about that .
They had great chance to take this series to that level or close to that level with the blood and cheese scene..but that turned out be an utter nonsense and full of disappointment ! 😖💔
I absolutely think it was a good choice to not visually show exactly how it happened in the books. I’m all for sticking to source material, and I understand gruesome scenes being part of the GOT world, but a line does have to be drawn at SOME point. I was satisfied with the level of gruesomeness they showed. The sound effects alone were disturbing. I also think that Phia Saban did a tremendous job. People are giving her a lot of backlash and saying her reactionn was underwhelming - I think she had a very human reaction for someone that would be put in that scenario. You are in such a deep, unfathomable level of shock that you don’t really know how to react.
However, I think taking away the aspect of Helaena having to choose is a huge, huge miss. That is what made the scene so deep and heartbreaking in the book, and ultimately is the primary contributor to Helaena going mad afterwards.
Not disputing her acting, she was brilliant. I just think the scene could have done with a tad more drama. A terrible choice.
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
7:02 for me it wasn't just the slicing of flesh but you can hear the neck bone being cut as you see Helena carrying her daughter
I actually like it better than the books. The sound design for the whole episode was extremely well done. With headphones it felt like you were there. People talking in the right heard on the right. When characters moved the sound moved with them. Which made the sound of the killing even more impactful.
The “what kind of American are you” scene from civil war was ten times more intense than this.
Haelena has always been a little bit fucked up, plus her visions coming and going constantly she always seems to be slightly absent at all times, I think her reaction was spot on. I love the expressiveness on her eyes though
Yeah the eyes did all the talking
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
I think when I first watched it, i was a little disappointed. I think having the expectation of the Haelena making the terrible choice and the blood curdling dialogue from the books at first lessened the impact of the scene for me. But watching it again, on its and the shows own merit, I think it was done absolutely terrific. They made it more of a tense, realistic encounter rather than the legendary and melodramatic fable it was in the books.
Let's not forget HBO was sued because of their graphic scenes in GOT😂. With the woke and soft hearted peeps these days Ill just be satisfied on what HOTD did since the book was like a propaganda book for the greens 😂
funny thing is that those same folks are the ones whining about the scene being different😂 they’re mentally ill
After watching several videos on this topic, I still don't get it.
The whole point of this was to take a son for a son. Right?
So how many sons were in that room?
I only saw her pick up the girl and left.
So what was the point of her choosing?
She offered her necklace, but they say that's not a son.
other than they couldn't tell them apart and she had to point it out. I really don't get it.
If she had to choose from two boys, then it would have been better, but this, no.
I thought it was great (well as great as killing kids can go...) I know they removed certain parts of the original b&c story but it was still shocking nonetheless and Halena's reaction was brilliant. She froze with fear and then just quietly took her daughter out of the room and went to her mother's and could only muster the words "they killed the boy", not even managing to say his name. Different from the books, yes. Entertaining and shocking to watch (again as entertaining as killing a child can be...)? Yes, absolutely.
It's good to know that hbo has some limits
I'd honestly thinking that Blood and Cheese moment should've happened on Episode 2 and let Episode 1 is about how the Blacks are still grieving of Lucerys' death. I don't like they already put the shock factor in the Season Premiere because usually in Game of Thrones, the first or two episodes in any seasons are always "Calm Before the Storm" moments. I also don't like how they forced Alicent sleeping with Crinston therefore making her a total hypocrite as back in Season One, they both talked about how Rhaenyra played Crinston's feeling and then she becomes the same as Rhaenyra.
POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOR THE SHOW AND NOVELLAS
I'm worried about the implications Maelor's absence will have on Ser Rickard Thorne. His ride to get Maelor to safety, even though he failed halfway through, was the kind of chivalric courage that Westerosi knights are famous for and that I love in ASOIAF. Those rare moments of genuine duty and honor and heroism, untainted by the greyness of men. What are they to do with him now? Is he doomed to be an unnamed background character whose potentially awesome deeds no one will know?
The fact that this video and topic exists proves that the scene wasn’t near as Gameofthronesy as it should have been, hope they don’t ruin the rest of the series with these changes
No it’s just the fact that some thrones fans are blood thirsty and want everything to be exactly as it was in the books and it’s not always possible. Mind you the book was written from a maesters perspective and he’s an unreliable narrator because he didn’t witness everything that happened just heard stories from others.
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
First, she selected herself to be assassinated instead of her children then she picked the younger one because she felt he was too young to understand What was happening. Then Blood and Cheese executed the eldest son in front of his mother his grandmother and his two youngest siblings.
I just felt the execution of the scene simply in the blacks in a better light than they deserve to be. The Blood and Cheese incident did not give me the same emotions as discussed when I read it in the book. To compare the Blood and Cheese incident to the Red Wedding interpretation in Game of Thrones I feel disappointed.
Like this tragedy should not be given the same weight because it happened to the "villains" The Greens and not the heroic Blacks
I totally agree.. This show is glazing too hard for the blacks. Personally the entire episode was mid..
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
I honestly understand why it was toned down because unlike the red wedding there are kids there and so much could go wrong if they followed the original plan from the books such as legal issues with showing kids getting violently killed on tv and also scaring and traumatizing the kid actors that is not worth capturing for the sake of violence and brutality and in my opinion that’s a sacrifice that was needed
I thought it was brutal. It was well done, in my opinion
Yeah I agree!
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
But you have to remember that what happens in books may or may not be facts that happen
For me it's the build up tobthe scene that is such a let down. Blood and Cheese are supposed to be two scary assassines not two random dudes who can't find their victim and bicker all the time. It's supposed to be a horror moment not a comedy but they filmed it that way. I'm good with them not showing the death I really don't wanna see that but they should have stayed closer to the Sophies Choice scenario imo. I'm so dissapointed. Seems to me like they desperatly try to make the black side the good one.
I loved the performance Phia gave, the scene was uncomfortable as well. That being said, the logic surrounding the event was very questionable lol
Yeah it's true! It's like somebody else said in the comments. It really tied into her entire personality
Episode was great! I'm going to try something crazy, something no one has done in 10 years. I'm just going to watch and enjoy.
I watched and enjoyed until season 6-7 of GoT lmao now we must make sure they stick to the fucking books
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
thanks for the video
The rat 🐀 dude preformed well too
Yeah his laugh as if he was enjoying it was creepy
Well said!!
Thanks!
Good , but unwhelming , but it’s hard to live up to the red wedding , and this could had be this shows red wedding .
I don't think much is better than the red wedding to be fair
There was no need for the gore. Watch how they did it in GOT s2 episode 1 when Joffrey orders Roberts bastards dead. The baby in the Brothel dies first, that was not shown but the mother sold the gruesomeness even when Ramsey fed his step mother and brother to his dogs, we didn't see but the reaction sold it . Halaena in the show is just a one dimensional prophetic NPC. She needs to be a character as well no matter how weird she is. She did not even offer her own life in exchange for her child. A simple scream would have also been enough. The animated retelling by Shireen did not show the decapitation but the final scene where Halaena is on the floor clutching her son's body sold the gruesomeness. She walking into her mother's chambers and announcing they killed the boy was not at all impactful. They could've given this to the maid to announce the news and shortly after let us hear Halaena's scream throughout the castle. Her reaction as a mother desperately pleading and trying her best to stop the assassination would've been impactful. Note Phia and the two actors were great with what they were given. But the script let them down.
i must be the only one who is not effected by the sound fx , more of visual watcher , more blood and gore , haha
Same!
Okay ive come to the conclusion that the book fans of every single book adapted show are the absolute worst.
Episode was fucking great, the ending had my heart pounding, hearing Jacerys voice crack when he told his mother about the Arryns and starks broke my heart, Daemon getting humbled by Rhayns made me laugh, and Aegon seeming to put more effort into his son than his father did with him made me smile. I think every change except for Meylys coming through the floor in season 1 was a good one that enhances the story and adds nuance to the characters. Aegon is gonna be in the same position as his father was having to name his brother heir, or his daughter, which would make him a huge hypocrite, unless his wife can produce another son but i think we all know how that will end. And the people mad that we didnt get to see a baby getting decapitated are sick! Seriously get some help with that, thats not healthy.
Most people who have read the books don't want to see the murder. They wanted the dramatic tension that came from the poor girl having to make a terrible, horrific decision. Most of the complaints I've read genuinely understand that depicting child murder is a horrific thing. The show did it well with the awful sounds..... but something was missing.
I personally felt like the scene was unrealistic in the fact both those guys just let her walk away whilst they were still committing the deed.
In the books, she's not only confronted with the tied up Queen mother (Alicent), but also a dead maid and she's instead begging for herself to be the victim instead of the kids. Whereas in the show, B+C just let her walk out whilst they're literally doing the worst thing imaginable.
Not as much drama/tension.
Nothing against Phia's performance either, she was good. Not blaming her, just the direction of the genuinely harrowing scene.
@@mrneutral8423 have to agree to disagree, it was plenty tense, and they still had her choose. People are just nitpicking about not getting the cold line of "You hear that boy? Ya momma wants you dead." Like it's great and all, but people are literally saying they butchered the source material.
@@WrathOfTheShaft Fair enough. everything is subjective. I just thought such an important moment could have been better. That said, the next episode is the fallout, so i imagine we'll get more indepth stuff.
@@WrathOfTheShaftTo be fair that line was pretty damn cold.
Fuck the nuance.
I think it should have been as it was. Mybe not showing the kills, but keeping everything else.
My opinion is if you can't handel it don't watch it
She was forgettable before but after this episode everyone will remember Halaena. A true innocent.
It failed on multiple ways.
Firstly, the show is putting too much effort into keeping Rhaenyra "clean" as a character. They way they set everything up made it perfectly clear that Rhaenyra is in no way responsible for Jaehaerys death. The essence of the Dance of the Dragons is that there was no good side, at best you were choosing between the lesser of two evils. The show goes out of it's way to make sure that Rhaenyra can only be seen as a positive character and has introduced storylines to purposely make Alicent look worse.
Secondly, the execution of the "assassination was all wrong. There is no way, Daemon would only send one soldier and a rat catcher to kill Aemond. If Blood and Cheese would have arrived a little earlier, they would have walking right into Criston Cole and Aemond. We all know how that would have ended. Taking away Haelena's choice takes most of the emotinal impact from the story especially when they're already made the questionable decision to make her autistic. Also making Alicent absent from the murder makes no sense.
It did work. I'll give you evidence. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been. The book is told by the point of view of historians but the show is supposed to be the real telling. Not the telling of Mushroom and the Grand maester.
I'm perfectly fine with changing the story from the book and toning down the violence but the writers really dropped the ball on HOW they changed it. Here's what they should have gone for. I agree with removing the third child for a more tight storyline but Aegon should have just two sons. The rooms were completely empty because CC and alicent sent the guards and servants away so B&C were kinda smug and did not shy away from checking the kids' privates but to their dismay, both are boys so they told helaena to choose one son and she pleads and cries to them to just kill her instead of showing no emotion. The noise wakes the kids up. One of them starts to cry while the other just stares at them. B&C starts to panic and this causes helaena to point to the crying one so the two would calm down. Cheese is about to silence the crying boy when blood suddenly chops off the quiet kid's head with one blow and we only see a thud and an out of focus head landing in front of helaena. Blood says "this un's older an' tryin' to remember our faces". They take the head and run, leaving the crying kid and a hysterical helaena while the camera slowly shifts to alicent and cc getting it on. episode ends.
Why does everyone forget that in GOT 2x1 we witnessed Robert Baratheon's illegitimate children being slaughtered in the streets, a scene that included but not limited to the corpse of a baby being tossed on a cartful of dead children. If they could show that, why couldn't they have shown Blood and Cheese in it's entirety? It's because they don't want Daemon and Rhaenyra to be seen as the "bad guys".
It did work. I'll show you evidence and explain the details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been.
which one was blood and which one was cheese... just tell me who was the one that had the dog ..
Blood and Cheese had me throwing up. Not the best combination on the charcuterie board. But regardless, The Game of Thrones would've ended more cohesively with Jon Snow slaying the entire dragon brigade and left with their eggs starving away from the coldness of the winter season threatening to wipe all remains of human existence in this world.
Omitting Maelor was the only problem for me. That upped the ante and made it not just physically horrific but psychologically as well. It messed with all of them. Other than that, even though I was underwhelmed because I have read the books, I didn’t want to see a baby get hurt.
That's fair enough!
Perhaps this is the reason they omitted Maelor. Book readers know what happens, and I can honestly say I found it worse than B&C...
It did work. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been. The book is told by the point of view of historians but the show is supposed to be the real telling. Not the telling of Mushroom and the Grand maester.
I like this version of Blood and Cheese I think it adds more nuance to Helaena as a character I feel like the actress was told to portray her as an Autistic person and this was a very Autistic reaction to something very tragic happening in front of you that you can't control. I think people who don't interact with Autistic people might find her line saying they killed the boy to be weird but that's how people with Autism may react to something like that happening.
Needs more cheese
Cheese was great in this scene to be fair!
Where were the guards!
Little bit disappointed. It didn't feel like there was much tension. The original scene from the book was far more terrifying and tense.
I'm not an edgelord wanting something graphic, but I certainly wanted something of a dilemma or tense. Halaena having to choose was a horrible part of a horrible scene.
That said, I did enjoy the tension of them both sneaking around.
If a director lack the briliance to execute a graphic scene, why give them the job? That scene is not even graphic.
Yes, definitely.. they should have stuck to the book
This was a let down
You did good at explaining but this was so rushed and anticlimactic I gave the benefit of the doubt and was disappointed big time from seeing this I know now character deaths are gonna be rushed and half assed
For me, the episode should have ended with classic close up on Healena’s face while those sounds of cutting the boy’s head off are played in the background, fade to black, somber music, credits roll out. Alternatively, roll the credits while she’s running out with the remaining child, because being suddenly alone in such a crowded place as the Red Keep also adds tension. Instead, they had to include Alicent and Cole having sex. Like why? They already stated earlier in the episode that so much for their pride and virtue, what was the point of adding that again in a moment like this? And THAT is what ruined this scene for me and made it so underwhelming.
“That child murder scene shoulda gone harder” is a wild take🤣
No matter how you sugar coat it. It was terrible, The copium though.
It was even more graphic then the book but less poetic and psychological. Just pure gratuitous. Should have been one quick beheading and we didn't even have to see it. They could have just showed blood splatter and just showed us everything else that was psychological torment leading up to it. This is pure b******* I can't believe people with millions of dollars made this. They dropped the ball completely. How was this approved?
I found it underwhelming...I wanted a red wedding.....
I think they did an excellent job enacting this important part of the story. It’s sad but it needed to happen for the story to move in the right direction. I am also glad they didn’t do it exactly like the book because it wouldn’t be watchable in America! The sound and having subtitles on was the worst experience ever. This is worse than ANY horror movie I seen. It really felt like an innocent child’s life was being taken 😓! GOT and HOD really know how to walk that fine line!
Bro i am disappointed beyond words, what are you on about? This was terribly executed
They made this show PG rated 😂
Definitely not!
There’s just no way they could’ve done it the way it was done in the books. The way they done it in the show was perfectly fine. I don’t get why everybody is overreacting. I’m a reader of the books, but it didn’t bother me the way they decided to do it.
i felt nothing in this scene this show went way pass this
It did work. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been. The book is told by the point of view of historians but the show is supposed to be the real telling. Not the telling of Mushroom and the Grand maester.
Did Blood & Cheese Live up to The Hype? NO IT DIDNT they let the queen scape and the queen didn’t seem to care which is very very weird
It feels like her character is going to be more traumatised by time rather than the immediate moment. She was the one who pointed, so that's probably going to weigh on her mind
@@BrainPilot i dont think any mother would point at her child like that mothers would rather die its just wasn’t the correct way to shoot that scene the series so far didnt lived up to game of thrones they didnt show the death of the carbfeeder and deamon wife and the child and the house of strong the y just skipped all that
@@FOXqtr then she's smarter than most mothers
@@FOXqtr I can't fault Helaena for this as she does come across as someone with autism. Her movements and actions are not like everyone else's.
The whole episode was very underwhelming. Emma’s crying was just terrible. The Stark scene was underwhelming and weird. Daemon is still being a douche for no reason. The Blood and Cheese was horrible and anti-climatic. It just didn’t have the GOT feel or drama to it. It was very mellow and very different feel already from the 1st season. Hopefully this isn’t a sign that Condal doesn’t know what he’s doing.
And this is where I will completely stand on the fact that when source material was readily available...D&D were leagues better. People can argue all day long but this is a fact.
The writing has been sloppy from inception. These writers were on completely different pages in terms of who they wanted their characters to be and there are interviews out there where they contradict one another speaking on some of them, especially Aegon and Daemon. Look at season two so far, now i will admit that I loathe Team Green and Alicent is the one I sincerely hate the most, however, what the hell have they done to her?! Was anything about her EVER genuine?! Same with Criston Cole. We didn't need the hypocritical sexual relationship to understand they are both hypocrites.
@@janellejulianajoy hahaha right??? The whole reason why Alicent and rhaneyra split was bc of Rhaneyras who ring. Idk I agree with you. Season is off to a terrible start
It did work. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true.
She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore.
You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been. The book is told by the point of view of historians but the show is supposed to be the real telling. Not the telling of Mushroom and the Grand maester.
Well it’s George rr Martin green light it the scene blood and cheese it’s the sound that was horrifying and awful
What part of “A son for a son” did anyone not understand?
Remember the book is written as though it were a historical account penned by the maesters at the citadel, rather than a regular novel. Also the citadel, being at Old Town, means it is bias in favour of the greens. The point is that the show is meant to be the actual events as they unfolded and not as they are in the book
Just not true, it’s an adaptation just like every other movie or show based on a book. They cut Maelor for story telling purposes, it’s not like he didn’t really exist.
@@Trashpanda887y you are also correct, the two of are mutually exclusive however
@@ThatKiddmg “the point is that the show is meant to be the actual events…” is just incorrect. Every source agreed it was in Alicents bedroom and maelor obviously existed. It’s just an adaption, like every other book to show ever.
@@ThatKiddmg you need to cut things for time and story telling, not because “it’s what really happened”
@@Trashpanda887ywe don’t know that Maelor doesn’t exist we just know he wasn’t there in the show I think it was a good change and George was on board with it so am I then…
Sorry the show version was better
Very underwhelming scene unfortunately. They likely did it this way to avoid fans crying about it being too much, i surmise. They didn’t do enough here to make you feel the gravity of the situation and its future consequences. Also not enough time spent characterizing the kids to make you care about them.
Helena offers a necklace and sits in a corner. It was the time to show her as the mother she is and not a quiet subdued wierdo.
Remember in the book she begs to die herself, and screams in anguish
What kind of monsters would want to see a child lose its head??? Seriously, GET HELP. And, when danger falls on you, contrary to tv shows and popular belief - there is no screaming and fighting back. You actually comply. The brain is designed to protect you, survive, get through this. Unless youre some trained soldier or MMA fighter, able to combat 2 armed men.... you would have done the exact same thing. This show is really above the heads of most viewers. The critics have no understanding of human nature and their lack of experience in the real world shows.
While it's a bummer that this long awaited scene is toned down we also should consider that it's probably for the best knowing how brutal it is and how sensitive people are nowadays, I'm afraid it'll get canceled by the wokes if they do another scene that is as brutal as the red wedding.
They could have broke the internet if they would had did it just like the books