Apologies for the audio on this one, something I find myself saying way too often. However if you want to help me get a lovely new camera mic please do consider supporting on Patreon if you can do. As well as helping improve the channel you get ad free videos, exclusive content, and you get to help choose what names get covered in these videos! www.patreon.com/nameexplain
(Non britt here) when i’ve heard the names of English places with the shire i’ve always heard it as shurr, is derbyshire an outlier? If it is what are some other outliers? Edit: /(post-alveolar unvoiced fricative)(schwa)(alveolar aproximant**)/ so like the sher from: sherlock is garbage and here’s why.
The reason the o is in the middle of Phoebe and Phoenix is because of the legacy of the letter Œ œ (called œthel) œ and æ were both letters in English meant for words with a Greek or Latin root, replacing the dipthongs οι and ae from Greek and Latin respectively. Œ was usually meant for the long ē sound while Æ was supposed to sort of be a sound between A and E, and the letters' pronunciation was dependent on whether the word came from Greek or Latin. Many words, especially in the realm of science and social studies used both these letters such as Diarrhœa Pædiatric Œstrogen Œconomics Æsthetic Encyclopædia Orthopædic Æther Æon Æquinox Œcosystem Anæsthetic Supœna Fœtus Fœderal Æqual Æstimation Gynæcologist Zoöglœæ Et cætera... And yes, Phœbe and Phœnix, with their Greek origins, got this treatment too, as they also had the οι diphthong like you mentioned. Of course as English was getting modernized after the American Revolution, we here in the states decided to drop Æ and Œ as well as ſ (the long s) This is why British and American spellings of some of the words I listed above are different, as the British opted to replace Œ and Æ with just an OE and AE; (in Britain, Diarrhoea and Paediatric)... While in the states we opted to replace both with just an E in most cases, (Americans spell it Pediatric and Diarrhea). That's the reason both these names have a Seemingly Silent "O" in them, because that "OE" is actually an "Œ" I don't want to seem angry, and this is not supposed to be an angry comment, especially since you've taught me so so many cool things about English, but yeah I don't think you could've missed the point any harder
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_that_may_be_spelled_with_a_ligature For those who want the ultimate gamer experience. And if you're wondering why ß is in some of these words, it's because just like how Œ is a ligature between OE and Æ is a ligature between AE, ß is a ligature between either ſs/ſz (hence why it acts as a "Double S", it has long ſ and round s) Cool? Cool.
in the middle ages, scholars had a fetish for re-latinizing the vulgar tongues. often, though, they overcorrected, adding latinate spellings to words which were frankish or germanic in origin, massively confusing the "historical" spelling, some of which are still spelled "incorrectly" to this day.
Ptarmigan. It's from Gaelic, but someone put a 'p' in front, thinking it had something to do with Greek "pteron" (feather). "Island" should be "ighland", but was confused with the synonymous, but unrelated, "isle".
I think the same applies to the word "phoenix". I think I've seen it misspelt about as many times with the O and E swapped ("pheonix") as I've seen it spelt correctly.
Leonard is another name with a silent O (and like with Phoebe, it has a similar silent-O word in "leopard"). Why is the O silent in Leonard, but not in Leon or Leonardo?
In my country (sweden) and probably a lot of other countries most people called Leonard pronounce it almost like Leonardo without the O at the end. And because the name is german (both swedish and german are germanic languages and quite similar) I would assume they pronounce it similar to us and that when the brits tried to pronounce it it became "lenard"
Medieval English looked at Latin as the language. Latin was thought as godly language because the Bible was written in it. That's why the scribes were writing English words with Latin spelling. That's why French word "doute" is spelled with a silent B. "To hesitate" in Latin is "dubitāre". As you can see there's a letter B in it. So when French gave to English the world "doute" English scholars have changed the spelling to be more Latin-like.
The Titaness had a couple of very famous grandchildren to whom she had given her name. The sun god Apollo was also known as Phoebus and his sister moon goddess Artemis as Phoebe.
Here are some more "oe" pronounced more like a long /i:/ like "ee": * foetus/foetal * diarrhoea _EDIT: Also the following that others commented:_ * _oestrogen_ * _amoeba_ _EDIT 2: Also the following that occured to be when answering in the thread:_ * _King Croesus_ * _Coeliak's disease_ I'm not a linguist, but I know instances of OE were combined into the ligature Œ in medieval Latin, which continues to be used in French in some cases. I think many such words have ended up with an "OE" spelling in UK English and "E" in US English. Regarding "phoenix", the bigger mystery is probably why French using the "fenix" spelling. If anyone knows, I would love to know why. Many of the "oe" and "ae" combinations are pronounced as "ee" /i:/ in English, but there are also examples like "manoeuvre" (or "maneuver" for the Americans) where it is pronounced more like /u:/, probably under influence of the letter "u" right next to the combination. Final comment: You can also get away with using the ligatures for "oe" and "ae" in English. I have for instance seen "manœuvre" in at least one novel from the second half of the 20th century), while Encyclopædia Britannica continues to be called just that.
@@88marome We use "føniks" in Norwegian, but we tend to use "ø" (which originates as an "e" superimposed on an "o") where Swedes use "e" in words derived from Greek, e.g. "økonomi" vs "ekonomi" (from "oikos" in Ancient Greek). One more example: * "cøliaki" vs "celiaki" (Coeliak's or celiak's disease in English) But also a counter-examples: * King Croesus is called Krøsus in Norwegian and Krösus in Swedish.
Instead of "how did Phoebe get an O in its name", the question should rather be "how did people in Latin (and afterwards in French, English, yada-yada-yada) stop pronouncing the O in Phoebe".
I can't believe that you forgot about Phoebe Halliwell, one of the Charmed Sisters. She's the one who could see the future (and later on in the show also levitate).
Neato! Thanks for another wonderful curious and entertaining episode 🥰 Also thanks in particular for your based take on afab kids dressing how they prefer, which just so happens to be comparable to the way boys are often dressed. Hmmmm, what's going on here, a person? Ah, yes! K cool, moving right along then!.. 💪
"Learning is so fun, we like to spell and we love to hug" I've ended up concluding that Pibby (from Cartoon Network's forthcoming animated series "Learning with Pibby: Apocalypse") is a nickname for Phoebe.
The conversation started with Friend's Phoebe and ended with a discussion about why Phoebe from the magic school bus wasn't included in the Netflix revival (which is sad, because she is my favourite character)
The fictional character that I best remember having this name was from classic Magic School Bus. The red girl who was nice and always saying “ at my old school” anyone remember her? The MSB Phoebe.
That is interesting, since ø and ö often is written as oe in languages that does not use ø and ö, like on plane tickets (my surname becomes Bobjoerk) :-) In Swedish it is spelled fenix
@@isaacbobjork7053 Both Ø and Ö originate as representations of "OE". Ø is an historic "e" superimposed on an "o", while the two dots above a character represent a small "e" that was moved atop the preceding vowel in order to save space. There is a third variant, used in French and medieval Latin, written as "œ".
Apparently losing the "O" made sense around here in the 19th century too. There is an unincorporated town named "Phenix" in Wells County, Indiana... looks like it's two houses, a small church and a four-way stop in Google Earth.
- 2:48 Isn't Patrick British? What about _foetus_ and similar spellings? 🤨 - 8:02 Forsooth, viz Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, Leicestershire… British spelling is almost as crazy as Irish or Welsh. - 8:20 British Minecraft UA-camr PhoenixSC pronounces his name (or at least used to pronounce his name when he still had a standard intro) as /fenix/ instead of /feenix/.
I'm pretty sure the colors are being blended especially with your beard compared to the older camera, it may be the camera is slightly blurred or the settings may be a little off.
I remember seeing the name Phoebe in written form and pronounced the 'o' for the longest time. I knew of the name but never seen the spelling for it and it took me several years to realise that they were one in the same.
The ancient Greek pronunciations of PH and TH was p+H and T+H, said the same way as we pronounce P, T at the beginning of a syllable when the letter S doesn't come before them. The F and TH sounds came much later. And to be further nitpickity, the E of Phoebe was written with what we would call the 'long e' (hay) rather than the 'short e' (heh). That said, I did enjoy your video
In Spanish we spell Phoebe and Phoenix as Febe and Fénix, as you may know in Spanish we spell the words as we pronounce them, maybe what happened is that the pronunciation in Greek or latin changed gradually, while some languages kept the original spelling some (like Spanish) changed it to adapt it to its own rules. Same happened to another mythological name Phoibos, a name for Apollon, in Spanish is Febo
That's because English tends to move the emphasis on to the second syllable when a word is more than 2 syllables long. Incidentally "Phoenician" and "Phoenix" are related words, derived from the Greek word for purple.
I love the name Phoebe because of its Greek roots. If I could get away with it I would totally name my future kids after Greek Gods. Maybe not Nike though because I wouldn't want people to think I named my hypothetical daughter after a shoe.
You should do Jalen (Jaylen, jaylyn however people spell it) for a name, or at least poll it, it's not super common but I've seen it around and am curious if it has anything to do with the name Galen
It's worth noting that until 1837 in England the church was responsible for the recording of births, marriages and deaths. The church traditionally used Latin. In 18century Church records you find some in English others still in Latin, this includes the spellings of forenames. So seems possible with a semi-literate population, for less common names English spellings were not well known and the Latin spelling given to parents by the church could have been used. A bit like were well known cities have English and local language names whereas less well known cities only have local language spellings.
It'd be cool if you looked into the many ways to spell Isabel. I haven't seen a name spelled in as many different ways as my own and it'd be amazing to know why 😃 I've come across a few variations (Isobel, Isabelle etc) and I find it fascinating that one name has so many ways to spell it in the UK alone! I know Elizabeth is the English variant of the original Hebrew name but Isabel is still a name used in its own right.
Couple years ago, I had a co-worker (in another department) named Phoebe. Problem was, she didn't pronounce it "fee-bee" but rather "feh-beh". No idea why.
Another name with "Phoe" is Phoebus. A well known Phoebus is the character from the Hunchback of Notre Dame. In the movie he explained it means "sun god". Also there is a type of cute little bird called a phoebe. I don't know why they are named after a moon Titaness though but food for thought.
Phoebus / Phoibos was an epithet of the Greek and Roman sun god Apollon (incidentally a grandson of the titaness). It is the male form of Phoebe, both meaning "bright" or "shining".
It's due to the trend of simplifying dipthongs involving the letter "e" during the transition between Latin and its descendant languages. "E" is generally favored in cases where it appears in a dipthong. For instance, we pronounce "Caesar" as "Seezar" and Italians say, "Cesare" (pronounced "Chezareh"). Or take the Italian feminine plural, "-e." That comes from the Latin "-ae."
I always though it's pronounced 'Foeb' Like Foe (opposite of friend) and the oeb like in bath-robe. Phoenix makes sense to me because the german word for the mythological animal is Phönix which has the speciall umlaut which is not used in english at all but the 'oe' is just the symbol for ö spelled out so no confusion there
English: Phoenix French: Fenix Polish: Feniks Polish & French don't have an O letter at all in the spelling. Also why does PH digraph exist when F exists in English also in Polish why we don't use KS when X exists (well X letter doesn't officially exists in Polish).
The Polish spelling is the same as in Croatian: Feniks. I agree, F and X are more practical than PH and KS. We always use F and KS, though, just like in Poland. Also, do you have any silent letters, because we don't. If you see ''H'' it's never a ''softener'' for another letter, but a standalone letter with its own pronunciation.
@@AlirioAguero2 Only Polish silent letters I could think of are either from foreign words that keep the spelling & pronunciation but there is one sorta. CH is pronounced as a H but it's a rule so I don't know if it counts. Chorwacja = "horvatsya" A foreign example be the TH digraph which is frequently prounced as a T. Thanos = "tanos"
@@modmaker7617 That's interesting. :) Yeah, we also spell and tend to pronounce foreign names as they are written and said in the original language. That's only applied to personal names. Thanos would be written as Thanos. However, foreign words that adjust to Croatian permanently change their spelling to fit the phonetic language. So, ''doctor'' became ''doktor'', ''computer'' became ''kompjuter'', ''printer'' remained the same in writing, but we do pronounce ''e'' in it, ect. Our original words don't have silent letters. Ch = h could count, I guess, but if it's a rule, at least it feels easy to remember. Do you have a ''C'' as a standalone letter? To us, it's pronounced like ''TS'' in English or ''ZZ'' in Italian.
@@modmaker7617 Cool. We say ''Poljska'' for Poland. ''Lj'' is a digraph and a letter in its own. It's pronounced like a double ''LL'' in Spanish (Llorar, llamar, ect.)
My grandmother is called Phoebe and because of that I always assumed that it was an old people’s name but given the statistics I may be wrong. Also I’m loving your hair Patrick
I don't know why but oi/ai sounds combination often becomes /ie/ > /e/ (like in russian) or /i/ (like in ukrainian) or /i:/ in many languages. "oi" is /i/ in modern greek language and possibly it became by the time of renaissance when many latin and greek words were readopted (possibly retaining the spelling)
This can be spelled Phœbe in French or English, or Phöbe in German. There is also a Biblical Phoebe different from the mythological one, and the two can be written differently in some languages. Phoenix is Phönix in German, føniks in Danish and Norwegian. (There is a Phenix City in Alabama, by the way.) We don't have the ö sound in English (though the -ur in 'burn' comes close in some dialects). OE thus becomes 'ee' or 'oh'. The German surname Schroeder is common in the US. It can rhyme either with 'loader' or 'lader', depending on the individual's preference.
Hey! You look just like your self-portrait! Wasn't there also a fashion for spelling things the same way the anchient Romans did? Or at least pretending to?
Don't know if it was specifically the case with these words, but some words came from the romans directly and some were re-romanized/anglicized as descendents of the Norman French decided to they did't want to be French anymore. This includes changing of Native AEnglish words and respelling of Latin words. War and loss of territory will do that, especially when you want the natives to follow you into fighting foreign wars. tom turkey, turkey tom
I can’t really explain for Ancient Greek but in modern Greek the “οί” is pronounced just as “ί” or “i”. Another example, the word economics spelt as “οικονομικά” in Greek, transliterated as “oikonomika”.
You should do a video on the Irish name Siobhan as in Chevonne if its worth your time. There is no name written in a way more mind boggling if you ask me.
Phoebe is from Greek and the oe was actually oi in Greek. Phoebe is Φοίβη(PH-ee-b-ee) in Greek. The όι & η produce almost the same long "ee" as in bee sound. The name was borrowed by the French, from Greek, hence, the change from όι(when transliterating Greek, it should be "oi") to oe(this is one ligature in French actually, like sœur, the French word for "sister" but on non-French keyboards, the letters are separated. Phœbe is how it should be spelled per French spelling but Phoibe per Greek spelling.) The "silent o" in the name Phoebe (in original Greek as Φοίβη or in French as Phœbe) is a misconception due to the above reasons.
Personally I would pronounce "fenix" as "fehn-icks" and the most logical phonetic spelling would be "feenix" or maybe "feanix." But maybe I'm just weird.
You mispronounced the original sound of Phoenix quite a bit, but I don’t blame on you. Many people who think they can pronounce Ancient Greek really can’t, and just largely superimpose Modern Greek pronunciation onto Ancient Greek.
Pheobe is actually also a biblical name. I’m Swedish so it’s quiet odd when you try to pronounce Pheobe in Swedish. It sounds like the Greek version. Sometimes it’s even spelled Febe😂
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Apologies for the audio on this one, something I find myself saying way too often. However if you want to help me get a lovely new camera mic please do consider supporting on Patreon if you can do. As well as helping improve the channel you get ad free videos, exclusive content, and you get to help choose what names get covered in these videos! www.patreon.com/nameexplain
ok
Bit of a swindle there.
(Non britt here) when i’ve heard the names of English places with the shire i’ve always heard it as shurr, is derbyshire an outlier? If it is what are some other outliers?
Edit: /(post-alveolar unvoiced fricative)(schwa)(alveolar aproximant**)/ so like the sher from: sherlock is garbage and here’s why.
The reason the o is in the middle of Phoebe and Phoenix is because of the legacy of the letter Œ œ (called œthel) œ and æ were both letters in English meant for words with a Greek or Latin root, replacing the dipthongs οι and ae from Greek and Latin respectively. Œ was usually meant for the long ē sound while Æ was supposed to sort of be a sound between A and E, and the letters' pronunciation was dependent on whether the word came from Greek or Latin. Many words, especially in the realm of science and social studies used both these letters such as
Diarrhœa
Pædiatric
Œstrogen
Œconomics
Æsthetic
Encyclopædia
Orthopædic
Æther
Æon
Æquinox
Œcosystem
Anæsthetic
Supœna
Fœtus
Fœderal
Æqual
Æstimation
Gynæcologist
Zoöglœæ
Et cætera...
And yes, Phœbe and Phœnix, with their Greek origins, got this treatment too, as they also had the οι diphthong like you mentioned.
Of course as English was getting modernized after the American Revolution, we here in the states decided to drop Æ and Œ as well as ſ (the long s)
This is why British and American spellings of some of the words I listed above are different, as the British opted to replace Œ and Æ with just an OE and AE; (in Britain, Diarrhoea and Paediatric)... While in the states we opted to replace both with just an E in most cases, (Americans spell it Pediatric and Diarrhea).
That's the reason both these names have a Seemingly Silent "O" in them, because that "OE" is actually an "Œ"
I don't want to seem angry, and this is not supposed to be an angry comment, especially since you've taught me so so many cool things about English, but yeah I don't think you could've missed the point any harder
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_that_may_be_spelled_with_a_ligature
For those who want the ultimate gamer experience. And if you're wondering why ß is in some of these words, it's because just like how Œ is a ligature between OE and Æ is a ligature between AE, ß is a ligature between either ſs/ſz (hence why it acts as a "Double S", it has long ſ and round s)
Cool? Cool.
That "oe" diphthong is a French native, appearing in common words like the one for "egg"...
That actually makes a lot of sense all of those words you mentioned are written with "οι" or " αι ", at least the ones that derive from greek
Archæology
Are there words spelled OE where they _aren't_ actually an Œ?
I clicked on this video hoping to learn about my name because it's so similar to Phoebe, thanks for teaching me more than I was expecting!
Wow! This video was basically about your name anyway, glad you enjoyed!
in the middle ages, scholars had a fetish for re-latinizing the vulgar tongues. often, though, they overcorrected, adding latinate spellings to words which were frankish or germanic in origin, massively confusing the "historical" spelling, some of which are still spelled "incorrectly" to this day.
Would love to read some examples.
@@gillianomotoso328 gimme a bit, it was in a book I read a while back so it might take some digging
You meant the renaissance right
@@gillianomotoso328 "debt"
Ptarmigan. It's from Gaelic, but someone put a 'p' in front, thinking it had something to do with Greek "pteron" (feather).
"Island" should be "ighland", but was confused with the synonymous, but unrelated, "isle".
I had a friend called Phoebe in primary school and I could never spell her name. Turns out I'm dyslexic 😂
That's reasonable. I used to think the word "phoebe" was pronounced "foe bee"
@@darkseraph2009 the funniest thing is, no one realised I'm dyslexic until I was 21 😂
@@darkseraph2009 i thought it was spelled "feebee" until i was 8 :skull:
I think the same applies to the word "phoenix". I think I've seen it misspelt about as many times with the O and E swapped ("pheonix") as I've seen it spelt correctly.
@@darkseraph2009I thought it was pronounced "Fo-eh-beh"
Leonard is another name with a silent O (and like with Phoebe, it has a similar silent-O word in "leopard"). Why is the O silent in Leonard, but not in Leon or Leonardo?
In my country (sweden) and probably a lot of other countries most people called Leonard pronounce it almost like Leonardo without the O at the end. And because the name is german (both swedish and german are germanic languages and quite similar) I would assume they pronounce it similar to us and that when the brits tried to pronounce it it became "lenard"
I don't know. In Croatian, they are actually pronounced like LeOnard and leOpard, but then again, we don't have silent letters, so...
have I been mispronouncing it this whole time… 😅
I pronounce it Lee-oh-nard
@@Amber-md8ut In English, yes, because it's pronounced "Lennard"
@@Amber-md8ut that's probably how I would have pronounced it before watching Big Bang Theory.
Thanks for the shout out! Happy to be supporting the channel :)
Medieval English looked at Latin as the language. Latin was thought as godly language because the Bible was written in it.
That's why the scribes were writing English words with Latin spelling.
That's why French word "doute" is spelled with a silent B. "To hesitate" in Latin is "dubitāre". As you can see there's a letter B in it. So when French gave to English the world "doute" English scholars have changed the spelling to be more Latin-like.
Im assuming doute became doubt, right?
@@DeadBread. yes
the bible was not written in latin
Another word with a silent o that many of us know is the word "people."
The Titaness had a couple of very famous grandchildren to whom she had given her name. The sun god Apollo was also known as Phoebus and his sister moon goddess Artemis as Phoebe.
Here are some more "oe" pronounced more like a long /i:/ like "ee":
* foetus/foetal
* diarrhoea
_EDIT: Also the following that others commented:_
* _oestrogen_
* _amoeba_
_EDIT 2: Also the following that occured to be when answering in the thread:_
* _King Croesus_
* _Coeliak's disease_
I'm not a linguist, but I know instances of OE were combined into the ligature Πin medieval Latin, which continues to be used in French in some cases. I think many such words have ended up with an "OE" spelling in UK English and "E" in US English. Regarding "phoenix", the bigger mystery is probably why French using the "fenix" spelling. If anyone knows, I would love to know why.
Many of the "oe" and "ae" combinations are pronounced as "ee" /i:/ in English, but there are also examples like "manoeuvre" (or "maneuver" for the Americans) where it is pronounced more like /u:/, probably under influence of the letter "u" right next to the combination.
Final comment: You can also get away with using the ligatures for "oe" and "ae" in English. I have for instance seen "manœuvre" in at least one novel from the second half of the 20th century), while Encyclopædia Britannica continues to be called just that.
It's fenix in Swedish too.
@@88marome We use "føniks" in Norwegian, but we tend to use "ø" (which originates as an "e" superimposed on an "o") where Swedes use "e" in words derived from Greek, e.g. "økonomi" vs "ekonomi" (from "oikos" in Ancient Greek).
One more example:
* "cøliaki" vs "celiaki" (Coeliak's or celiak's disease in English)
But also a counter-examples:
* King Croesus is called Krøsus in Norwegian and Krösus in Swedish.
Thou art English, art thou not?
There was one tv star in my country where everyone include herself read her name as Pho-bee.
I never know the //correct// way to read Phoebe before.
There's Phoebe Cates from 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High'
Instead of "how did Phoebe get an O in its name", the question should rather be "how did people in Latin (and afterwards in French, English, yada-yada-yada) stop pronouncing the O in Phoebe".
I like this point
There's also the Student from the Magic School Bus, as well as the Ghost type Elite Four.
There is a Phoebe in Magic School Bus. There is an actor from Bridgerton names Phoebe Dynevor.
In moderrn French we spell the mythical bird name phénix. There is also an asian tree which is either phœnix (with the letter "œ") or phénix.
I can't believe that you forgot about Phoebe Halliwell, one of the Charmed Sisters. She's the one who could see the future (and later on in the show also levitate).
The new camera quality looks really great :)
Don’t forget Phoebe from the Magic School Bus! At her old school, this would never happen!
Amoeba is also pronounced with a silent o
That was interesting. Thank you for this video. I learned something. I liked it.
Neato! Thanks for another wonderful curious and entertaining episode 🥰
Also thanks in particular for your based take on afab kids dressing how they prefer, which just so happens to be comparable to the way boys are often dressed.
Hmmmm, what's going on here, a person? Ah, yes! K cool, moving right along then!.. 💪
Back in the VHS days, all boys of a certain age know Phoebe Cate from Fast Times at Ridgemont High
"Learning is so fun, we like to spell and we love to hug"
I've ended up concluding that Pibby (from Cartoon Network's forthcoming animated series "Learning with Pibby: Apocalypse") is a nickname for Phoebe.
Nothing about the bird called phoebe? That could have bridged Phoenix and phoebe discussions nicely.
So this is appropriate because yesterday I was just having a conversation about various Phoebe's
The conversation started with Friend's Phoebe and ended with a discussion about why Phoebe from the magic school bus wasn't included in the Netflix revival (which is sad, because she is my favourite character)
There's a section of the town of West Warwick, Rhode Island called "Phenix."
There's also the epithet of phoebus for Apollo (also the name of an Ace Attorney character), which means bright.
I have a coworker named Feeby. It wasn't until I read it out loud that I realized I was saying a name I had heard before 😂
The fictional character that I best remember having this name was from classic Magic School Bus. The red girl who was nice and always saying “ at my old school” anyone remember her? The MSB Phoebe.
My grandma did away with the O and named my mom Phebe. When I was young and read a book with a character named Phoebe I read it as foe-bee.
In danish, the word "Phoenix", are spelled "Fønix" and the Ø is pronounced as the thinking-sound "Öhm" 😊
That is interesting, since ø and ö often is written as oe in languages that does not use ø and ö, like on plane tickets (my surname becomes Bobjoerk) :-)
In Swedish it is spelled fenix
@@isaacbobjork7053 Both Ø and Ö originate as representations of "OE". Ø is an historic "e" superimposed on an "o", while the two dots above a character represent a small "e" that was moved atop the preceding vowel in order to save space. There is a third variant, used in French and medieval Latin, written as "œ".
@@isaacbobjork7053 The same thing happens with Latin words in German: for example, "present [tense]" is "Präsens", from Latin "praesens, praesentis"
yeah, and in German it's Phönix... and I think that's because you can write ö as oe, and it wouldn't surprise me if this makes it a backformation....
Apparently losing the "O" made sense around here in the 19th century too. There is an unincorporated town named "Phenix" in Wells County, Indiana... looks like it's two houses, a small church and a four-way stop in Google Earth.
- 2:48 Isn't Patrick British? What about _foetus_ and similar spellings? 🤨
- 8:02 Forsooth, viz Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, Leicestershire… British spelling is almost as crazy as Irish or Welsh.
- 8:20 British Minecraft UA-camr PhoenixSC pronounces his name (or at least used to pronounce his name when he still had a standard intro) as /fenix/ instead of /feenix/.
the guy who teached me pig latin
I'm pretty sure the colors are being blended especially with your beard compared to the older camera, it may be the camera is slightly blurred or the settings may be a little off.
I remember seeing the name Phoebe in written form and pronounced the 'o' for the longest time. I knew of the name but never seen the spelling for it and it took me several years to realise that they were one in the same.
Wow this has perfect timing I was just thinking about this yesterday
That's just a theory, a Name Theory.
I ounce offered to name my neice Phoebe and she asked Are you getting the idea from shows
The ancient Greek pronunciations of PH and TH was p+H and T+H, said the same way as we pronounce P, T at the beginning of a syllable when the letter S doesn't come before them. The F and TH sounds came much later. And to be further nitpickity, the E of Phoebe was written with what we would call the 'long e' (hay) rather than the 'short e' (heh). That said, I did enjoy your video
With all the talk about Phở I get an appetite for Vietnamese stew.
melchizadech=MAL-keys-ah-deck (with the "CH"/"K" sounds being made in the throat as a kind of flem clearing noise.)
In Spanish we spell Phoebe and Phoenix as Febe and Fénix, as you may know in Spanish we spell the words as we pronounce them, maybe what happened is that the pronunciation in Greek or latin changed gradually, while some languages kept the original spelling some (like Spanish) changed it to adapt it to its own rules. Same happened to another mythological name Phoibos, a name for Apollon, in Spanish is Febo
Hurrah! A new video!
Phoenician (fuh-nee-shin) is the exception
That's because English tends to move the emphasis on to the second syllable when a word is more than 2 syllables long. Incidentally "Phoenician" and "Phoenix" are related words, derived from the Greek word for purple.
When I was a kid, I thought it was pronounced “FOE-ehb.”
I love the name Phoebe because of its Greek roots. If I could get away with it I would totally name my future kids after Greek Gods. Maybe not Nike though because I wouldn't want people to think I named my hypothetical daughter after a shoe.
You should do Jalen (Jaylen, jaylyn however people spell it) for a name, or at least poll it, it's not super common but I've seen it around and am curious if it has anything to do with the name Galen
It's worth noting that until 1837 in England the church was responsible for the recording of births, marriages and deaths. The church traditionally used Latin. In 18century Church records you find
some in English others still in Latin, this includes the spellings of forenames. So seems possible with a semi-literate population, for less common names English spellings were not well known and the Latin spelling given to parents by the church could have been used. A bit like were well known cities have English and local language names whereas less well known cities only have local language spellings.
omg he actually looks like his cartoon avatar
It'd be cool if you looked into the many ways to spell Isabel. I haven't seen a name spelled in as many different ways as my own and it'd be amazing to know why 😃 I've come across a few variations (Isobel, Isabelle etc) and I find it fascinating that one name has so many ways to spell it in the UK alone! I know Elizabeth is the English variant of the original Hebrew name but Isabel is still a name used in its own right.
My cat is named Pheobe and I am watching it with her.
I watched Fleabag couple of years ago. It's so good!
Couple years ago, I had a co-worker (in another department) named Phoebe. Problem was, she didn't pronounce it "fee-bee" but rather "feh-beh". No idea why.
Another name with "Phoe" is Phoebus. A well known Phoebus is the character from the Hunchback of Notre Dame. In the movie he explained it means "sun god".
Also there is a type of cute little bird called a phoebe. I don't know why they are named after a moon Titaness though but food for thought.
Phoebus / Phoibos was an epithet of the Greek and Roman sun god Apollon (incidentally a grandson of the titaness). It is the male form of Phoebe, both meaning "bright" or "shining".
I would love to see a video on the name Joe and why it’s synonymous with being average, i.e “Average Joe”.
Famous Pheobe would be Alyssa Milano character in Charmed. always loved the name
It's due to the trend of simplifying dipthongs involving the letter "e" during the transition between Latin and its descendant languages. "E" is generally favored in cases where it appears in a dipthong. For instance, we pronounce "Caesar" as "Seezar" and Italians say, "Cesare" (pronounced "Chezareh"). Or take the Italian feminine plural, "-e." That comes from the Latin "-ae."
And Caesar himself would have pronounced his name as "Kaizer"
Only watching this bc we just adopted a dog named Phoebe 😂
In the US pronounced fo-bee, foe nee shins. Phoenix refers to the bird, and Fenix is the spelling often for names.
I always though it's pronounced 'Foeb'
Like Foe (opposite of friend) and the oeb like in bath-robe.
Phoenix makes sense to me because the german word for the mythological animal is Phönix which has the speciall umlaut which is not used in english at all but the 'oe' is just the symbol for ö spelled out so no confusion there
English: Phoenix
French: Fenix
Polish: Feniks
Polish & French don't have an O letter at all in the spelling.
Also why does PH digraph exist when F exists in English also in Polish why we don't use KS when X exists (well X letter doesn't officially exists in Polish).
The Polish spelling is the same as in Croatian: Feniks. I agree, F and X are more practical than PH and KS. We always use F and KS, though, just like in Poland. Also, do you have any silent letters, because we don't. If you see ''H'' it's never a ''softener'' for another letter, but a standalone letter with its own pronunciation.
@@AlirioAguero2
Only Polish silent letters I could think of are either from foreign words that keep the spelling & pronunciation but there is one sorta. CH is pronounced as a H but it's a rule so I don't know if it counts.
Chorwacja = "horvatsya"
A foreign example be the TH digraph which is frequently prounced as a T.
Thanos = "tanos"
@@modmaker7617 That's interesting. :) Yeah, we also spell and tend to pronounce foreign names as they are written and said in the original language. That's only applied to personal names. Thanos would be written as Thanos. However, foreign words that adjust to Croatian permanently change their spelling to fit the phonetic language. So, ''doctor'' became ''doktor'', ''computer'' became ''kompjuter'', ''printer'' remained the same in writing, but we do pronounce ''e'' in it, ect.
Our original words don't have silent letters. Ch = h could count, I guess, but if it's a rule, at least it feels easy to remember. Do you have a ''C'' as a standalone letter? To us, it's pronounced like ''TS'' in English or ''ZZ'' in Italian.
@@AlirioAguero2
Yes. In the example word Chorwacja (which means Croatia BTW) I used has C as a standalone letter and makes the "ts".
@@modmaker7617 Cool. We say ''Poljska'' for Poland. ''Lj'' is a digraph and a letter in its own. It's pronounced like a double ''LL'' in Spanish (Llorar, llamar, ect.)
My grandmother is called Phoebe and because of that I always assumed that it was an old people’s name but given the statistics I may be wrong.
Also I’m loving your hair Patrick
I don't know why but oi/ai sounds combination often becomes /ie/ > /e/ (like in russian) or /i/ (like in ukrainian) or /i:/ in many languages. "oi" is /i/ in modern greek language and possibly it became by the time of renaissance when many latin and greek words were readopted (possibly retaining the spelling)
yooo the audio is surprisingly good! (but I'm no audiophile so what do I know)
That's not Tom turkey, his name is John Rambo turkey!
Phoenix is also the name of one of the Greek heroes in the Iliad.
This can be spelled Phœbe in French or English, or Phöbe in German. There is also a Biblical Phoebe different from the mythological one, and the two can be written differently in some languages. Phoenix is Phönix in German, føniks in Danish and Norwegian. (There is a Phenix City in Alabama, by the way.)
We don't have the ö sound in English (though the -ur in 'burn' comes close in some dialects). OE thus becomes 'ee' or 'oh'. The German surname Schroeder is common in the US. It can rhyme either with 'loader' or 'lader', depending on the individual's preference.
Hey! You look just like your self-portrait!
Wasn't there also a fashion for spelling things the same way the anchient Romans did? Or at least pretending to?
You should explain the origin of the name Brodie. It's my name and I haven't found any reliable info.
The OE becomes ö in amoeba and oestrogen in Swedish -amöba östrogen. But it becomes E in phoenix -fenix. Strange.
Don't know if it was specifically the case with these words, but some words came from the romans directly and some were re-romanized/anglicized as descendents of the Norman French decided to they did't want to be French anymore. This includes changing of Native AEnglish words and respelling of Latin words. War and loss of territory will do that, especially when you want the natives to follow you into fighting foreign wars.
tom turkey, turkey tom
Let's just change it to Pheebe, or even better Feebe
Now tell us the reason for the silent O in Opossum.
In my language it would be written "Fiibii".
My neighbor's female cat is Phoebe. Her male cat is Joey. Make of it what you will.
video ACTUALLY starts at 1:25.
I can’t really explain for Ancient Greek but in modern Greek the “οί” is pronounced just as “ί” or “i”.
Another example, the word economics spelt as “οικονομικά” in Greek, transliterated as “oikonomika”.
I thought that it came from the latin diphthong "oe" that is spelled as "e"
Plz do a video on heavenly names, like Faith, or Grace🙏🏼
Amateur genealogist here. Historically, the name has frequently been spelled without the o, at least on this side of the Atlantic
7:59 Darbysheer? As an American, it's actually pronounced DER-bee-SHY-er
You should do a video on the Irish name Siobhan as in Chevonne if its worth your time. There is no name written in a way more mind boggling if you ask me.
Phoebe is from Greek and the oe was actually oi in Greek. Phoebe is Φοίβη(PH-ee-b-ee) in Greek. The όι & η produce almost the same long "ee" as in bee sound. The name was borrowed by the French, from Greek, hence, the change from όι(when transliterating Greek, it should be "oi") to oe(this is one ligature in French actually, like sœur, the French word for "sister" but on non-French keyboards, the letters are separated. Phœbe is how it should be spelled per French spelling but Phoibe per Greek spelling.)
The "silent o" in the name Phoebe (in original Greek as Φοίβη or in French as Phœbe) is a misconception due to the above reasons.
Are you sure about thid one?
Phoebe means to be scared in Greek, the B is pronounced 'Vvv'
Like phobia's etymology.
And the Dutch will read it as Phoob(e).
Explain the city name Nachitoches
I was pronouncing it as pho-bee
Phoenix, in German Phönix. not silent but with a German Umlaut
Personally I would pronounce "fenix" as "fehn-icks" and the most logical phonetic spelling would be "feenix" or maybe "feanix." But maybe I'm just weird.
The _o_ in _Phoebe_ is not silent. _Phebe_ would be pronounced _feeb_ , therefore the o is changing the sound - _i.e._ it is pronounced.
Obsolete spelling phœnix. German spelling Phönix.
A tomboy doesn't just dress boyishly, she behaves boyishly.
You mispronounced the original sound of Phoenix quite a bit, but I don’t blame on you. Many people who think they can pronounce Ancient Greek really can’t, and just largely superimpose Modern Greek pronunciation onto Ancient Greek.
I used to think Phoebe was pronounced fee-oh-bee
Please do a video on the name jezebel
Not a silent O, but a digraph OE.
Pheobe is actually also a biblical name. I’m Swedish so it’s quiet odd when you try to pronounce Pheobe in Swedish. It sounds like the Greek version. Sometimes it’s even spelled Febe😂
Suggestion for next week's poll: Nancy. I'm curious how my name became a disparaging term for an effeminate man.