Step 1: find something your opponents believe in. Step 2: pretend to believe in said thing, but make only stupid, fallacious arguments in support of your new “position” Step 3: using separate account, attack the flaws in your own previous argument. Step 4: watch the thread burn. I’m convinced that this happens all the time and I really think you should discuss it.
@@StainlessHelena In some highly competitive games, high level players with a smaller pool of opponents will run 2 accounts at once at their matchmaking rating with the hope of playing against themselves and artificially boosting their rating. Of course, this is cheating and it takes a lot of work to set up, but it's still a shortcut to a higher ladder score. Doesnt seem relevant? Look at people like Steven Crowder and Ben Shapiro. They frame their debate videos as if they are on equal grounds, but their videos are about how their opponents cant formulate an argument. The implication is that their ideas are superior while in reality they are using under-handed tactics to defeat the unprepared. Look at how Shairo melted down on BBC, for example. He's used to catching people off-guard and turning conversation into debate, but he got called out and left when his strategy didn't work.
Yes. Both anti-gamergate and gamergate crowds did this and we see with this video who did a better job of it. Cuz at the end of the day, the corruption in games journalism hasn't changed, but people still talk about how sexist a hashtag movement was.
@@Heeroneko Cuz gamergate didn't have any evidence for the "corruption" in games journalism. The movement largely didn't care about actual questionable ethical practices, the actual goal was simply to silence through intimidation criticism they don't like / don't want to hear. Fortunately our society largely doesn't try to fix problems there is no evidence they exist. (Note "voter ID" laws are similarly just a cover to bias the results of elections not actually do anything about voter fraud).
Bioshock is a carefully built deconstruction of what is a philosophy made by Ayn Rand, without being too influenced by modern politics necessarily. This is very different because this one was made organically and isn't forced, and is obligated to put great arguments as well as be creative to keep the player entertained. Not only that, but it doesn't target gaming itself and how it works for functions, but a different philosophy outside of it. In the other hand, what feminism particularly regarding video games has done is act like strong female protagonists don't exist while very famous ones like Samus do, many feminists including Anita hated the old Tomb Raider design for being sexually appealing, and then when they changed her and made her buffer and shrinked her boobs, they hated this new one again for looking too "male-ish". They contributed to Dead or Alive not coming to the west, and half-assed measures like how Mortal Kombat 11 made women wear more clothing and armor because "it doesn't make sense for them to be half-naked in a battle", which makes sense and I think armor would look better on characters, but then they have all the male characters be half naked still. Not only that, but this politics are being forced, they aren't about a "choice". You don't get to choose if your character is half naked or not, you can't just make an alternate costume of your favorite character on your bikini, while others choose cool armor. You're forced to take the armor, because that's what feminism has been enforcing.
I was 14 years old at the time of Gamer Gate. I very much angry about game journalism. But mostly mad that videogames were being criticized. As a lonely teenager video games were part of my identity and criticizing videogames as a whole felt like an attack on me. Cringe
It's good to try to analyse one's personal psychological motivations, but don't project these motivations on others or suggest that these psychological motivations were the only reason people thought what they thought. I'm not saying you are doing this, but some will read that into your comment considering the content of this video.
@@fleromor To be honest, Cheong has always been a disingenuous coward with no courage of conviction who will abandon one position when he hears another he can latch onto more effectively.
@@fleromor It was around that time from memory. He was always a grifter, but I think he started seeing more traffic on his twitter interactions just rolled with it.
@@fleromor Apologies for the late reply, but yeah as others have said he was always a grifter who didn't actually believe in anything. BUT he "switched sides" shortly after Witcher 3 came out. He used Anita doing a review critical of it as his reason for "switching sides" because it was his favorite.
I am ashamed to say I once was an anti feminist because I thought people were attacking someone I cared about without understanding it. It was so easy to fall down the rabbit hole of hating straw-men that were never real. It felt so good to be angry.
Same, my man. I'm really ashamed of how I used to act/behave/think. But we're out the other side. Keep growing as a person and the world will be a better place. 😉
@@tehawes0mesauceOn the bright side tho, nowadays we have access to information(like this video for example) that can help us to figure out what the hell is going on, but can you imagine how would have been 30 years ago? Following something, being part of something, believing in something that was a lie all along, and then never being able to find out unless you are lucky enough to meet the right people? Can you imagine being a type of person that you don't want to be for years, and just finding out about that much, MUCH later? I'm really glad that at least today people have some access to videos like this. Without the internet people wouldn't have a choice but to be trapped.
I'm still an anti feminist. Feminism is a bane on society and is the reason the nuclear family no longer exists. I was only ever angry with feminists in the beginning because they started attacking gamers FIRST. This guy is leaving that part out completely. He's also lying by saying that it wasn't about ethics, because it was. The actual journalists turned it into something else.
@@human9452 You're not stupid, you got out of it and recognized that the information you were taking at face value was wrong. Do you know how hard that is to do for most people?
"The culture of gaming is changing around him, and he wants someone to tell him that the problem is the culture, not him." This explains the anti-feminist and other alt-right movements far beyond gamergate, tbh.
@@ShowtimeAtWaco Sure it does. Anti-feminists, so-called ethno-nationalists, fundamentalists, etc. feel displaced by a world where concepts of gender, diversity, and marriage/family are both more fluid and have a more progressive hold on cultural discourse than what they're willing to accept. Their respective subcultures recruit with the promise that the culture is the problem, not them. It's basically the story of conservatism, gamergate is just one flashpoint in a long-running theme.
@Subi_fan Citation needed. Fourth wave feminism (which is intersectional feminism) has actually made feminism more popular with a recent poll showing that more people than ever consider themselves to be feminist.In that poll only 25% of people said they were against feminism, that is not anywhere close to most peopletoday.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2018/08/09/feminism-american-women-2018
Am I the only one who's so sad that the people who have a genuine right to be angry with the world (people that suffer constant harassment from angry jack) aren't allowed to be angry?? You can't show its getting to you, or you just reinforce their "angry sjw" stereotype
This is the absurdity of anti-SJW, they cry that people "cry and yell for nothing" but they are crying and yell when ever those people get the rights and legitimacy they already have for century.
Pingwn It’s a common tactic of narcissists everywhere. Foul the shit out of someone, and then start rolling around on the court like s/he ran into you, so you can turn that foul right back around on them.
The problem isnt that the feminists have a right to be angry, the problem is that femenists were saying their anger was the *only* one that was justified while ignoring all their provocations of people in the gaming community. This video has no idea what it is talking about.
Gaters are not to be confused with gators. One group's members are cold blooded creatures that will latch on to something and shake and slam it until it's ripped into bits, and the other group's members are alligators.
Man, it REALLY dates this video having Ian Miles Cheong being a sympathetic figure. Honestly, as someone who didn't really get into Twitter until after GamerGate petered out, it amazes me that he was actually right about something for one brief shining moment. Too bad it didn't seem to agree with him. (Not saying he deserved any manner of harassment of course, it's just amazing what a complete 180 he did.)
siddbastard Good catch, buddy! She clearly just SAID she games in order to skew the perspective. Cause why would an actual gamer weigh in with a genuine thought in a relevant forum? Amirite?
Y'know what's funny is exactly how many of Trump's tactics are exemplified in this video. His usage of bullying terminology to "discredit" his detractors is a core methodology of Trump.
@@aralornwolf3140 He never said he wasn't, just that he was promoted by the Nazis, which you have also claimed. If leaving a whole for Donald Trump to instead be a garden variety opportunist was deliberate, that's sensible. The man lives for plausible deniability, everything the Nazis have done for him, even this far in, falls under that. Alternatively the man just might not be literate enough to hide the racism, machismo, and other shit behind American conservative rhetoric the way he's 'supposed to.' It's a sensible and justifiable hole to leave in the unlikely advent that he is, in fact, what he presents to people rather than something more extreme acting like the person he wants to be (as the vast majority of human beings older than three do).
Yeah... and, unfortunately, the "next 4chan raid" was the 2016 election. They took gamergate tactics and weaponized it at a national or even international scale... and since it worked so well, they have only ramped up their efforts ever since. I hope we can turn this around before it turns into outright fascism. However, it looks like it's still heading in that direction. :(
@@Charlie-wl2qt At least for a while, yeah. But it remains to be seen if the long-term trend is better now, or if the next 4 years are just a brief break. In particular, I hope people today won't repeat the mistakes of the Weimar Republic, which failed because it tried to fund progressive programs with regressive taxes. That's like trying to pay off a credit card with another credit card. Things are looking up now, but it's unclear if the people in charge are bold enough to do what needs to be done. So we've got to push them pretty hard to fix the broad strokes of the economy, redistributing resources downward by moving the tax burden back up toward the rich.
I mean if you are trying to make a persuasive argument, then why would you not wish to attract as broad a spectrum of people & viewpoints as possible? If the only people you end up speaking to are those who already agree with you (essentially preaching to the choir), then what's the fucking point of even trying speak on this or any subject?
So I started watching these videos when Contrapoints mentioned them in her most recent video The Apocalypse. I'm honestly surprised that has been up for over three years now and not only does it have more likes than dislikes, but nearly three times as many more likes. That's pretty cool. I looked up the Stephen Colbert and Anita Sarkeesian video and dear God. 13K likes and 46K dislikes.
Its possible to disagree with Anita and not hate her and not discriminate against her for being a woman. Even in the early days of all this garbage, there were a few people who debated her points substancially and respectfully, without hatred or scorn. Unfortunately, too many gamers were just driven by hatred towards her and the other targets of gamergate and they said/did terrible things. They became the face of the community. Trying to talk out against them or to try to reason with them was like drinking from a firehose (at least on my favorite sites that got "infected"). I remember seeing that Colbert interview when it aired and it just made me sad. I'm like "See Gamergate? You legitimized her. Even if she was ever wrong about anything, she isn't now". Its terrible that she got death threats and had to get protection (I remember she was asked about that in the interview)... but then, that wasnt something unique to her or unique to women. It shouldnt happen to anyone. There was an argument made that Anita wasnt even a gamer herself. Well if thats true, its even more true for the people who started gamergate. Its kinda ironic so many gamers got used as pawns and were corrupted in this internet war initiated by people who didnt even care about games.
@@nighthoodlupin3500 so she is a liar. You know it. Everybody knows it. But you still don't hate her? That makes you think. Wait no. I already made up my mind about you.
@Lyle - Theres no reason to hate anyone. Hatred aganst other people is a disease and not constructive at all. Hatred is the feeling of losing sides of arguments and its weak. This is actually the first time I've seen someone willingly admit they want to hate someone and wish others to hate others as well. I wish you well.
@@nighthoodlupin3500 stop this everybody is my friend bullshit. And that last line ''wish all the good in the world cheers love xoxo'' is disgusting. Where is the problem when I say I hate a liar? Let's not hold hands and sing kumbaya in unison.
@Lyle - That's not what I said at all. You're literally putting words in my mouth. You seem to be extrapolating to make me look worse to yourself for whatever reason. I guess you either hate me already or are looking to hate me and want me to hate you back. You seemed to ask me why I chose not to hate so I told you. I don't think its healthy or helpful and it deligitimizes what I'm saying if I'm saying it from a place of hatred and weakness. It can only lead to unhelpful reactions. If you want to hate that's your problem, I only said I wish you well because, like I said, I see hate like a sickness. The world is full of hatred and no one is singing "kumbaya" and I have no friends, but I'm not going to corrupt myself with hatred, to let this world crush me and win.
Daniel Cabrona the reason for a trigger warning is to stop people from being "triggered", to be triggered has often been described as an involuntary reaction of anxiety, depression and pains that go with it. when people are annoyed with the idea of a trigger warning I don't actually think they've been "triggered", but, any way to try to insult the people you disagree with is a valid argument for you I guess.
N3v3rD13 565 trigger warnings only make sense when the reaction people have really is "involuntary anxiety and depression" and i feel like that is not how they are used so, yes, i think using "being triggered" in a more general way - when trigger warnings are also used for so much more - is fair.
Hey, "angry Jack" here, you're right, I'm still here I'm just a leftist trans woman now because I realized that the reason I didn't want to face or admit any of these things was because I didn't want to admit to myself that I was trans and transition. I was angry and scared and I'm sorry.
gentlerat speaking as someone who was previously involved in such right wing circles, it is addicting as it makes you feel a) smart, b) valid, c) part of a community. At the core of it for me was trying to find my ‘identity’, something i’ve struggled with my entire life until i discovered i was trans. I think thats why many trans people are allured by these groups before finding out they’re trans. Similar to people characterising themselves as ‘gamers’, it makes you feel unique, something almost everyone wants
I don't understand this. I know this is old, and no one will see it, but this seems like the best comment to reply. I couldn't help but think this while watching the entire series thus far. If you don't like the games... Just don't play them. If you don't like the reviews, don't read them. I've personally never sent a tweet to Anita or Quinn and I don't recognize any of the other lefties (because that's what this really is, left vs right). Never read an article written by them. I've been subbed to the Gate channels and I guess participated as a passive, sympathetic observer. The thing is, I do like scantily clad women in my games, just like I like them irl. I don't like walking simulators about feelings. I like games about shooting stuff and blowing shit up and saving the world. If gaming is "by men for boys" I don't understand why there needs to be a change in the games popular with males. Why not just make different games that women like? Why does every game need to include everyone? Like, I don't play rainbow six siege because it's too difficult to learn the maps and meta. It's too hardcore of a game for me to get into. Should I be petitioning Ubi to make smaller, simpler maps or dumb down the mechanics? I mean I guess I understand the argument that it contributes to how men view women... But, does it tho? Isn't this the "video games make boys violent" argument?
@@cloudy_gomo Exactly. Vote with your wallet. Buy games you like and don't buy games you don't like. Understand that some people disagree and have different tastes and move on. Don't make it any more complicated than that. It doesn't need to be.
@@cloudy_gomo I do get where you are coming from, but there are a few misconceptions in your comment: -The first one is the importance of Anita Sarkeesian. She is NOT important to the left; i wouldn't even call her a leftist, she simply shares some progressive ideas of the 80s. She doesn't bring up any new ideas and is profoundly boring for anyone who has engaged with feminist theory. If you want to know what media critique that actually shapes minds and has relevance in the left looks like, go listen to H.Bomberguy or Contrapoints. While it would be reaching too far to call Anita a strawmen, this does mean that if your only point of contact with media critique from the left is her, you dont actually know what you're talking about - because she is only important to the right, not to the left. -The second misconception is the role of media critique itself. Telling others what you see in certain media isn't (by itself) a petition for change. Rather, it serves to open minds: If certain tropes are everywhere and became so normal you dont even see them anymore, simply adressing them is already enough to create a massive outcry. Talking about sexism in games doesn't mean those games are bad.
I made comments on here years ago defending gamergate, I wanted to be a part of something, I did really believe in improving journalistic standards but I became embroiled in an ideology of needless hatred and dogma. I regret it deeply. I realise now that you don't need to be part of a "movement" to advocate good journalism and you especially don't need to be a part of a movement coopted and used by hateful ideologues just to be accepted as part of a in-group, eventually my cares for media integrity turned into thoughts of white supremacy and misogyny, even if I had convinced myself I was neither sexist nor racist I absolutely did unconsciously support racist and sexist agendas. For those watching whom were in a similar situation to me, you can get out, you can admit that you did have bad thoughts and you can move past it and whilst it may hurt to admit you're were wrong at first then you'll feel much better for doing so eventually.
@Toxic Slug correcting my grammar doesn't actually address the point I was making, and at no point did I suggested you were a bad person, a misogynist nor a white supremacist. In fact we may have similar experiences. I too didn't want to believe that I could support hateful ideologues and in my mind I knew that I didn't. What I didn't realise was that I had inadvertently come on to the side of people who advocated for hate and psudeo science, race sciences, climate denial, misogyny etc. People like Milo and PJW and Sargon, pundits and bloggers I may have put on a face of tolerance but I could feel disdain for certain groups of people in my heart, that cause me to be reactionary to what I thought was a threat of 'SJW' culture in media. I believe that gaming journalism sucks and can be better improved. I don't believe that I need to complain about the existence of black people or women in films to do that, I don't care about "PC culture" or "Forced diversity" or whatever other buzzphrase I can now see the irony in supporting publications like 'One Angry Gamer' whilst simultaneously accusing video game publications of being too politically charged
It's only no longer a threat because the election loss blew it all up with infighting (Which is still going for that matter) which also resulted in it becoming unprofitable too. If BoB hadn't divided the opposition, it would probably still be a necessity. It *did* get a heck of a lot of people just looking for a quick buck though. Also the irc was telling Usher not to give the GJP mails to milo, but he was pretty naive and thought he was a centrist. That's pretty much where everything went haywire. the left wing side of it where I hung out like bunkerchan, /stirn/, and leftypol also didn't really give a damn bout ethics, but just hurting corporations and their jackboots in general. So everyone anti-gg automatically became seen as corporate shills and "bootlicking bourgeois bitches." Which to be fair, *many* obviously were! Or trust fundies LARPing as being 'progressive.' Hey, at least one good thing to come out was you could tell who was bought & paid by the DNC at a glance just by looking at how it was covered! If an "-ism" or "hurrassment" comes up in the analysis, you know that entire publication is compromised and _an absolute piece of lying trash!_ Then you can dismiss them and find _actual_ honest & good publications like Counterpunch and Mint Press! Purge thy Mind of the spooky neoliberalist brainworms!
@@cutienerdgirl You can tell yourself that. But it doesn't look to me like he is stating facts. It looks like he is trying to paint "other guys" as "the problem."
@@jim_hawkins_blues Why so angry, Jack? And if you thought that was inappropriate, _that_ is how he is part of the problem. He is pointing fingers at people he disagrees with, makes unfounded accusation, and treats those he agrees with as blameless.
"BUT YOU COULD SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT TUMBLRINA SJWS!!!!" I think that, in addition to bringing on Angry Jack, Gamergate also had to create the illusion of an opposing force: the SJWs.
Salman Shurie an SJW wouldnt tell me which song by the bee gees youre supposed to resuscitate people to the beat of and my son died in my arms because i tried to use 'how deep is your love'
Salman Shurie An SJW is basically a strawman- or stawoman, generally. Whenever a reactionary, racist, misogynist says something awful, people like Angry Jack immediately waive it away by saying that 'SJWs' are just as bad and making up things that results in stupid-looking armor.
This whole series is amazing. It’s like a case study on all conservative methodology. I used to be Angry Jack around the time this video came out. I used to be so scared of being the bad guy that I’d have to dismiss everyone else in order to feel that way. I was the straight cis white middle class man who wanted to feel like I was fighting the good fight without actually doing anything. Of course, now I’m the exact opposite. Depression Quest was amazing, and it started to make me wonder about the artistry of games. What they were trying to say. All of my favorite games either had something to say, or were so arcadey that they said nothing past “beat the baddies.” It made me start to wonder what my beliefs actually were, and why I felt that way, and why I was crying myself to sleep every other night. With a lot of introspection and not a small amount of antidepressants, I was able to finally purge the actual reason. Fear. Now, I’m a lot happier. Not perfect, of course, and probably still below average. But still so much better. Looking back, I cringe at the maladjusting manchild I was, realizing how immature and head-in-the-sand I was before. Now, I’m relatively happy woman doing well in school, and still coasting on my economic privilege without pretending it isn’t there.
That's awesome to hear, while I once got wrapped on the "ethics in journalism" narrative on gamergate, threats in general have always been an unjustified method for me, so I drifted away. Gotta say, looks like I didn't miss much.
HOLY SHIT, THANK YOU, IVE BEEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GAMERGATE WAS FOR SO LONG. Jesus Christ, it shouldn’t have been this hard to do some damn research.
In retrospect, he wasn't even the only one during gamergate with that theme. Candace Owens started her political career during this time trying to stand up to racial violence. Then she quickly threw Zoe to the wolves when it was convenient for her, and well... here we are now.
I'd wondered about that. I remember thinking "Hey, I've heard that name. ...Isn't he an asshole?" Either then he was an asshole who did a non-asshole thing, or he's become an asshole since.
So he was a racist first, anti-gamergater 2nd and now he's back to being racist? The part missing from the video is that he apologized to Totalbiscuit and more importantly that his racist remarks were made in secret and later leaked.
14:05 In Spain we have an expression for people that are used in plans without them knowing like this: "Tonto útil", which would translate as "useful fool".
I found this after TotalBiscuit's passing, and that one quote made this all so surreal, like looking on a political argument from a lifetime ago. It's been roughly five years ago, yet feels ancient.
Trigger Warning: Angry arguments about using the phrase "Trigger warning" follow. Please do not read the comments below if you wish to retain your faith in humanity
So proper scientific study on mental health would cause you to lose faith in humanity lol? slate.com/technology/2019/07/trigger-warnings-research-shows-they-dont-work-might-hurt.html
One of the weirdest tendencies I noticed happening in GamerGate's discourse, was a push against "feminists, SJWs, and the PC Police censoring video games", while simultaneously pushing for "objective reviews", and arguing that you shouldn't push "political agendas" in game reviews... even though pressuring privately owned review sites to not publish certain opinions kind of fits GamerGate's own definition of the dreaded *"censorship"*. They seem to hold game review sites up as some sort of Holy Text that shouldn't be corrupted, and they seem incapable of taking their own advice. "If you don't like that game, don't play it!" ... Um, why not simply not read reviewers or sites you don't like? Why should they HAVE to change to fit your preferences of what you want to read? Why do you even need reviews at all?? Do you need to be TOLD what to buy?? I have never heard movie, TV, or book reviews being talked about like this, video games have to be this one weird exception for some reason...
That's the ultimate paradox of it all. I can't help but be remind of the religious fundamentalist that screamed about their "freedom of religion" being taken away because they cant enforce their religion on others. Ironic, considering a lot of GG use to be against the fundies doing that. Now they do the same for "free speech."
I was Jack, I remember being Jack. It's a terrifying thought. I'm glad that I've learned so much, but I'm distressed that it took realizing I was trans, and thus, not a straight male, to finally begin on the path to realizing I was wrong. If I had found this video years ago, I wouldn't have watched it. I couldn't have watched it. To watch it would have been to incriminate myself, and to suggest that I was wrong. As happy as I am to know better now, it horrifies me that I was a monster for so long.
Despite being the ideal target of anti-sjw(the correct gender, sexual orientation, race and ammount of money), I don't think they could have ever gotten me. Being bullied made me annoyed by people wanting to keep the world exacly as it is lol.
Yeah, not being a straight male is a great way out of feeling like people hate you for being a straight male. Fortunately, the straight males are actually all evil, otherwise this would be a sign that the good guys are doing something wrong.
Angry Jack here. (Working on changing that.) I genuinely didn't know the facts of the situation. All the information I had about it was from creators like Sargon. Half way through the video I was typing up along comment about how Innuendo Studio glossed over the controversy about Zoe's intimate relationships. But I was wrong. Despite all the talk from Sargon and creators like him about "feminist echo chambers" I couldn't see that I was in an echo chamber of my own... Disclaimer: The worst actions from me (as far as I can recall) in relation to GG were disliking videos. No angry tweets, comments or flagging.
@@sethbritton6970 Zoe defined a set of unethical behaviors as rape. She proceeded to engage in those unethical behaviors that she had defined as rape. I'm okay with taking her at her word that she's a rapist.
@@thinBillyBoy he became a total chud. Big creep. Went on these tirades about how he wished his country had a strong leader like Trump. Throughout BLM he would tell blatant lies. Cheered on a car that hit protesters. Swatted Andy Warski because he was mad about a video and admitted it. Also just as a footnote because this was minor but notable for being just very very strange. He went on a tirade last year against men who took pictures with their pets. Basically was saying that they are soft and unmanly. Which just screams of insecurity. Werid guy. I'm only scratching the surface. Grab a puke bucket and browse his Twitter some time.
@@thinBillyBoy He fully switched sides and disavowed everything feminist he said, began attacking feminist activists, supporting far-right ideology, deliberately joined in the massive misinformation campaigns of the most extreme right-wing groups, and even became a literal Hitler apologist. Pretty clear those "couple racist comments he apologized for and distanced himself from" were his true colors to begin with. Almost poetically it ended up being for basically nothing, a couple years ago it came out that he's Malaysian and lives there, and so now even in threads where he posts about how doxxing actual Nazis is a worse crime than anything Nazi Germany ever did and covers for groups like the Proud Boys, and calls for white Americans to seize power and declare martial law and purge minorities and non cis/het folk the very people he's stanning tell him to shut up and fuck off for being both not an American and not white.
One small addition: I also thought it was interesting how the gaming sides that actually had some "journalism integrity" problems (reviews reading like commericals, 8/10 reviews for buggy AAA games and so on) also used this alliance between the nazis and the angry jacks to lump everyone who criticed them into the angry jack category.
Wait, wait... Ian Miles "Antifa hit me with a concrete milkshake" Cheong was a target of GamerGate?! The dude who regularly hangs out with White Supremacists was NOT with the Gaters? Wow...
That Ian Miles Cheong point seems a bit outdated now lol. Excellent vid. I myself used to be apart of that big crowd until I realized how wrong I was and the damage that was happening. You hit it out of the park my guy
We saw this "The enemy of my enemy is my friend no matter how sickening they are." all over again in Charlottesville. We have conservatives who have accused the left for decades of being nazis. Even claiming that the nazi support of Trump was a smoke screen by the left to discredit Trump. That weekend we saw them marching with flag carrying nazis. Claiming they themselves weren't racist. They just marched, cheered, and were pictured with racists and that shouldn't imply support of racism. In that weekend and the following news clips of neo nazis vocally fawning over Trump neo nazis earned their place within the right and stopped getting accused of being liberals in disguise.
I have never heard a Nazi fawn over trump mostly they hate him. But in Charlottesville we saw the right opt out of supporting Nazis. There was practically nobody there. It was pathetically small. We also saw the left support violent commmunist thugs and claim they did nothing wrong.
Well, actually, the Left *are* Nazis, speaking objectively. The Nazis believed in a hierarchy (racial, and to an extent, Liberals believe the same) where one race dominates the others, and Nazis also tried to exterminate Jews, along with a few other races, that they saw as the subhuman. Guess what? Feminists hate men and, at this point, a lot of Feminists are openly calling for the genocide of white men. And the fact that they're actually being *upvoted* is what's worrying. So, yeah, the Left are, in a way, Nazis. And don't call me an 'alt-right extremist' because I'm more of a centrist at times. Also, you can't use someone's supporters to discredit them. You cannot choose who will support you.
Whenever someone tries to present Gamergate as this "important moment in human history", I always ask: "If it was so important, howcome South Park did not cover it?"
Probably because they'd end up taking some sort of half-ass milquetoast "both sides bad" EnLiGhTeNeD centrist stance and even they're not fucking stupid enough to do that with Nazis.
ZZAZZ I mean, it’s important in the sense that it exposed mainstream society to how shitty the gaming community generally is and significantly helped the careers of several of the feminists they claimed to hate.
@@ravenfrancis1476 Why should we care if the "gaming community" is shitty? There's a lot of shitty communities why even fix one that doesn't want to be fixed?
It's actually amazing to watch through this whole video, and scroll down to the comments section to find both Gaters AND Jacks using the exact argument tactics detailed in this video, with nary a nod or sense of self-awareness. Very well done. Keep making these videos!
>Gamergate is going to attend a panel with the Society of Professional Journalists >YOU'RE ALL DEAD HERE'S THE AUTOPSY Will you guys ever stop saying that? Gamergate has been dead since August.
pizzarelaguy Yet less and less people give a shit about it. BTW, you're doing exactly what he said in the video you'd do. Answer all criticism no matter what. (PSSSST....You're making this video look accurate, dumbass)
pizzarelaguy Are we supposed to be impressed that you suckered some idiot into creating a panel discussion that nobody besides GG wants to appear in, involves 2 people that don't play games, and that one GG'er has already flounced out of because they wouldn't give him more than 15 minutes to sum up your shit-show?
pizzarelaguy Except the panel isn't promoted by the SPJ and has actively had to tell the member organizing the panel to stop using their name. And literally only one or two people involved actually has any connection to GG, the others are just random anti-feminists.
Geary Excellent point! However, I don't think this GG guy cares about the facts. He just wants to steer the conversation as far to the extreme as possible so it can be on their terms. All they have to do is put out any information, true or false, and they can control the argument. They're worse than BIll O Reily
YourArgumentIsInvalid That' the biggest load of twisted logic bullshit I've ever heard. It's like saying "The KKK supports real civil rights, not that stupid victimhood crap Martin Luther King tried to pass off for as civil rights" You sound dumb.
This all ends up sounding like circular logic after establishing only one facet of GamerGate's origin. “GamerGate is evil and anything they say only proves that they're evil because this is what evil would do in GamerGate to hide that they're evil”. Sigh, there's no point in rebutting anything here, really, because of all the fallacies that were employed. I can see why Angry Jack is so angry, though.
The Legionaries And that a likes to dislike ratio can be seen as direct proof that people dislike what he has said and only what he said, and not whether he sounded contemptuous, egotistical, or self-righteous. /sarcasm To boil down why anyone disliked this video to validate one's bias is a massive oversimplification of a reaction to the video. As is every single "hi Angry Jack!" comment that automatically assumes anyone disagreeing with this video (or indeed series) is angry by default - thus invalidating legitimate criticism with "lol ur mad". Honestly these people are just as bad as gamergaters (that is, the negative facet of GG), if not worse for being wholly disingenuous and relying so heavily on disinformation.
The Legionaries I dunno, even as someone who supports GamerGate I understand how bad GG goons (extremist anti-SJW, doxers, etc) can be. But yeah, this video series is based upon the literal depiction and exact definition of a strawman, circular logic and disingenuous opinion that it's only doing more harm than good - but the creator is so oblivious to how close of a Poe he is that it ends up muddying the waters even further. Like Innuendo Studios said, it's not a debate. It is, however, a constant attempt at slander from one side, and a constant unending angry rebuttal from the other - which the former side takes as validification of their slander. It's cyclical.
Thank you for breaking down what GamerGate actually was. When it was happening I was surrounded by a lot of toxic Jacks in my life and didn't really know anything about it except what they told me. I never cared enough to do my own research, but I always knew something about the "movement" didn't feel quite right
He was wrong 80% of the time. But good effort on the lies. If you want proper sources check up NotYourShield or DeepFreeze and do your own research which disapproves all of this video's misinformation.
@@TheRealVordox Well, if you are tired of lies, then maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusion because your claims about the so-called "lies" are vague. I can already tell that you are an Angry Jack, even if you don't care if you're labeled as such. So if I disagree with you, then you think I judged you for that. At least Innuendo Studios did some research (and the sources are in the description) compared to some angry reactionary channels whose only sources are from 4Chan and they think they are correct into everything only for them to be proven wrong otherwise. Sorry but your arguments are invalid.
Innuendo - If you are still making videos I think it might be time to revisit this topic. Particularly what you talked about in the second half of this video about it not being over.
I wish I found this when it was first posted. Thank you for this. The whole gamergate thing, for me, a male gamer who's been playing avidly since 1989 on the NES, has been one of the most alienating things I've ever been through. I wasnt even an Angry Jack, i found myself disagreeing with literally everyone, caught in the middle and completely alone. I was sad more than angry. I was against Anita but also against all the horrible things she was being bombarded with. I couldnt be an Angry Jack because I knew all the things Gamergate was pushing was going to destroy any level of credibility I or others who felt like me had. Also, I considered myself a feminist from quite a young age, so once the misogynistic rherotic started showing up in all my usual, favorite gaming sites, I was done. But now that I've seen this I feel a little better but incredibly freaked out at the extent and insideousness of this culture war thats been being waged on the internet. It makes me want to live an internet-free life even more now. For all the good things the internet has done, I dont think its been worth it. Its been taken over by the worst people in the world and its been benefiting them more than anyone. Its changed our whole real world. Despite all the progress happening around us, we as induviduals are getting more hateful, angry, and messed up in the head. Its causing us to create artificial problems to be occupied with that take away from the real problems we should be dealing with. I still see reminents of gamergate showing up in comments on my favorite gaming sites from time to time. That rhetoric... words like SJW and cuck. The damage is done. Too many of my fellow gamers have been infected. Its depressing. Hopefully everything gets sorted out for the next generation... I wish the days of Nintendo Power, EGM, PSM, blockbusters, and arcades would return. I'd be a much happier gamer.
@@kingstarscream3807 the movement wouldn't have happened at all had the "minority of degenerates" not started it. As pointed out elsewhere, this was not a legitimate movement that they latched onto. This was THEIR movement, and they still use you as a cover and a patsy.
This is my second viewing, and I feel like this event was a turning point in the internet community that contributed massively to the increasing open visibility and tolerance of the alt-right, and the assault on civil critical discourse. I associated with the larger group of Angry Jacks via a female friend's Twitter reposts and discussions. I lost a different good friend of many years for that association, but he saw GG for what it was early on, and I have to give it to him for that, in hindsight. It's a shittily regrettable moment in modern humanity, and while I personally stopped feeling guilty about my situation with it, the regret that it happened in the first place is still there.
+ZM Dumpbox ...I wouldn't say it was a turning point for how people felt about the alt right. Rather, it was a turning point for the extreme left. I'd say the polarization that occurred during the elections was the real turning point for the U.S., while the refugee crisis led to that sort of mindset becoming more popular in Europe. Gay rights and a lot of other movements were finally being accepted, and many supported these causes. Special interest groups gained influence, and more and more people wanted to support good causes. Businesses saw this, and they attempted to profit off of it, promoting more controversial figures as sensationalism drew in more attention and profits. Bandwagoners often supported causes without fully understanding them, and an increasing number of regressive movements became more and more common. The combination of progressive movements that upset close minded individuals and regressive movements that bandwagoners supported meant many people that normally wouldn't agree would be fighting for the same cause, and this relationship was further cemented by SOME people on the left labeling anyone who who disagreed with the podium they supported as racists, misogynists, or so forth, devaluing how horrible such things are as they haphazardly made such allegations. As for the extreme left, GG is where the left accepted SJWs. In the past, while they right through around the term rather losely, the left also used the term as a slur to refer to people who worked towards causes in the wrong manner, fighting and picking enemies instead of reasoning with and creating allies. During GG, though, as Gawker was having its credibility called into question, they intentionally embraced SJWs as the chaos from them fighting with GGers would draw attention away from their business practices. Declaring the outcry as purely a hateful misogynistic movement meant feminists would join the fray, and in suit hateful misogynists would as well, as they always do when women rights are spoken of, whether or not its a good cause. At the same time new media connections would be formed because of this ordeal...
Tell him why he is wrong his bad now this is why the videos are wrongheaded just telling people to stay in their eco chambers and never believe any who different to you because their just angry jack
I mean who is really presenting the one sided argument here? Conveniently skipping past all the evidence regarding Sarah Nyberg´s sexual proclivities for example, just dismissing it as a 4chan invention.
Re: Ian Miles Cheong, I'd say it's an oversimplification to imply the video calls him (or anyone really) a good guy as a person. It factually relates what he said and what the response was, indicating that in this instance he was doing a good thing and that the accusation of nazism was meant to discredit his defense of feminist voices in the same way as the accusations against the other figures brought up in the same section. While this does assume a motivation that can't be proved on the part of GG folks, it isn't necessarily saying anything more about Cheong than "he said this thing." It's really just two stopped clocks being right at the same time.
I didnt realize until 17:27 that 'Jack' and 'Angry Jack' were merely a name given for the type of person susceptible to the apparent allure of the movement. I thought the guy in the VW bug's name doubled as moniker for some other key player whose introduction I must have spaced out for. God damn.
I love this series so much and have reshared it with many people over the years. My only critique is that this episode doesn't quite explain gamergate was about for people without any point of reference. I've had to fill in a couple of gaps to several people. But the rest is so great, i forgive that entirely
A lot of years (shit, I'm old) after the fact I wanted to express how immensly valuable these videos are. Firstly for my understanding of an international scene/online culture, when I first came into contact with it. It was hard to look into games back than on the english speaking floor and not get swept up in this whole gamer gate nonsense. Secondly for the table allegory for conspiracy theories, which is a absolutely perfect for a wide range of different topics and which I've now used in my master's thesis and probably going to use in my PHD writing as well as a jumping off point (and credited of course).
These videos are pretty scary, but I do appreciate the whole thing being broken down in a way that is helping me understand the mentality behind what happened - make sense of the chaos. Been a very interesting watch so far, thanks :)
I would like you to see Dishonest Jack | GamerGate by Netscape. unlike this video, it provides evidence to back it up, and shows how pathetically desperate this guy is.
I was around 14 when all of this shit went down. I feel very fortunate that I only heard about this situation in passing when Angry Joe briefly talked about it in one of his top 10 controversies of the year videos back then.
Only have one issue with your vid. That is about the nature of GamerGate. GamerGate started as a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn. It was the same group who've been harassing women online for years. They rallied around that psycho Gjoni's "Zoe Post" and as early as August they planned their cover story of "Ethics in games journalism" on the 4chan boards. That was all done in public. We saw it while it was happening. The harassers expanded to include other targets, and eventually roped in some non-harassers as useful idiots. Shields to hide behind. But GamerGate was about misogynistic harassment from the beginning. That's why the public isn't fooled by their lies. News orgs like the Times, the Wall Street Journal, ABC, NBC, CBS, Al-Jazeera, the BBC, NYMag, The Gaurdian and other publications have thoroughly documented the abuse from that online hate mob. The only people who believe GamerGates fantasy version of events are GamerGaters. That's my only disagreement. Otherwise, good job, and thanks for the vids.
God, the part after 17:00 is depressing. In 2016 they called the old Angry Jack back, and a lot of other Angry Jacks from much older communities with deeper wells of resentment to tap for fuel.
@@GODCONVOYPRIME Democrats are just diet-fascists at the end of the day still. I’m talking about the party establishment though, not the base of course.
I'm sorry but gamergate after Colbert not only didn't die, but did not even slow down. Besides you clearly seem to ignore everything about the constant infight in gamergate, or the harassment patrol. And you talk like in time the people who are in about ethics walked off gamergate leaving the assholes inside but ... the people who left are people like King of Pol and Internet aristocrat. Also .. Zoe Quinn has always be considered the Franz Ferdinand of GamerGate. Is not the cause of it, not even close. she is largely inconsequential (and besides... she is not even a journalist) So really this video is quite off base.
ScarletGameShow I doubt any of this will change his mind. He seems dedicated to constructing this strawman, it tells him that he is right to oppose all of Gamergate and not just oppose harassers and trolls. To lose this narrative is to admit the damage he and many of the people he supports have caused.
ScarletGameShow "did not even slow down." Oh honey. I've been here since the beginning. Today I can use hashtag GamerGate and not get any replies. Back then? lol. You're dead, lie down. I said it back then and I'll say it again. GamerGate will never "die", its most militant members will still be there ranting but it will never be what it was in the beginning.
ScarletGameShow It's like the KKK (Note I'm not saying you *are* the KKK) but the KKK will always be there but they'll have no influence. Just some angry men yelling at the sky. That's GamerGate.
Alibi McPersona Hahahaha! I am angry because people harass me and my friends for supporting ethical reforms and I get to hear all about how horrible we all are and how we deserve it because of a bunch of shit about us that isn't true. :) That's if anyone believes us at all, or if they believe we even exist. Nope, we are all just "jack the convenient straw man" to you guys. Why are you angry?
It just goes to show how the fragility inherent to some identities, like white, male, or straight, can so easily turn toxic and be used for much more sinister purposes
It's a good thing that those are the only identities that can have something like that happen to them. Can you imagine how hard it would be to call out other identities if this could happen to them.
To be fair, game journalism does have corruption issues, its just not women, but massive corporations wining and dining journalists and their bosses for praise via psychologically manipulative events and the power dynamic between journalists and gaming corporations. GamerGate focused on none of these things.
Man, when did videogames become such a bid deal? I play games for fun, not to discuss or write articles about them. Anyway, I seen these videos and read some of the criticism from a feminist point of view and I think they are valid. It's an industry that was primarily appealing to boys, that's evident. And I appreciate female protagonists with great storylines and great charisma. They don't need breasts with the size of my head. Whatever, I wrote to much and I don't pay attention to these "angry gamers"
"Man, when did videogames become such a bid deal? I play games for fun, not to discuss or write articles about them. Anyway, I seen these videos and read some of the criticism from a feminist point of view and I think they are valid. It's an industry that was primarily appealing to boys, that's evident. And I appreciate female protagonists with great storylines and great charisma. They don't need breasts with the size of my head. Whatever, I wrote to much and I don't pay attention to these "angry gamers"" What is some of the, in your opinion, valid criticisms from a feminist point of view? Because I haven't yet seen one...
in the same way that people analyse and write articles about film, tv, book, music and any other form of art. you can enjoy them all you want, but some people find dissecting them and figuring out how they work, and how they can be better to be interesting. like how video essays about games have become so much more popular
@@_ikako_ It's like someone raging at Ebert for reviewing movies, like dudes you can watch the movie without listening to Ebert. Thing is gamergate was never about the reviews, or critiquing games as art, it was just a right-wing microcosm that created a cottage industry of perpetually angry man children whining about "woke shit" whatever the fuck that is?
Jep, making the very existence of a group of people or their rights to life-saving medicine something to be discussed can be perfectly described as that.
Can it? @davidpacifico1019 Like I feel like there is more to it than just that. I also feel like the Jack caricature is just Ian/IS projecting his bias onto the right-wing. He is the one who wants to feel like he is in the right while knowing those whom side with him are monsters. It happens when you do not realize that evil people infiltrate both sides of a conflict.
It's true, I'd never even thought about all the POC women (and their POC male allies) who were also harassed by GamerGate-the news always made it about Sarkeesian, Quinn, and sometimes Wu. And I honestly really like what I've read of Mattie Brice's work! It was sobering to realize to someone who I liked reading also suffered during this, and I had no idea. Here's to being aware of POC marginalization in the future, even when the media is not (though, certainly, we must hope that it never happens again!). Thanks for making this.
Here's a fun fact for you from someone back then. There were more POC on Gamergate side and allies to them than the opposition. This video is lying on so many layers it's not even a cube anymore, it's a thesis of lies..
EDIT: it's come to my attention that Quinn goes by they/them pronouns, so they don't exactly fit in the binary range of "men and women harassed by Gamergate" I had set up in my previous comment! Regardless, my point stands, and neither Quinn, POC and marginalized creators, or their fellow allies deserve harassment. Donate to The Okra Project: www.theokraproject.com/
I found myself falling into Gamergate when it originally gained steam. I was legitimately upset about the sex for good review narrative. But I never fact checked it myself, I just took it at it's word. I also remember around that time seeing in rapid succession over a several week period numerous gaming websites (Kotaku, Polygon, etc) all denounce male gamers and say they're so appalling which I feel really nudged me into that group. I didn't stay long though, there was so much toxicity. Sad to say former MRA as well which in hindsight is likely how I got all those bad articles so quickly. Yet another place that was too toxic and never stayed on the points that drew me in. Looking back I am so ashamed of being associated with either of those even if I didn't participate in the toxic aspects. I was still supporting it with upvotes and confirmation bias. I even didn't watch this video series because of Anita being featured. Yet another example of my ignorance as I never even saw her videos from an objective standpoint, only snippets from those who hated her.
I remember uncritically sharing garbage about Sarkeesian back then without thinking about it. Those were in my questionable days. My "I'm am egalitarian not a feminist" days.
@@DanielForrester In the last couple of years, have you taken the next step in your personal journey and recognized that just because you were an ignorant piece of shit uncritically paroting things you knew nothing about does not mean that the opposite of what you were saying at the time must have been the absolute truth?
Fantastic Video! I do wonder how self aware many of these hateful people are. I found a recent example of hatemob mentality and not wanting discussion: When somebody made fake Anita Sarkeesian tweets celebrating a recent tradegy, She could've either ignored it or called it out (which she did). When she did call it out, angry comments said that she made it ALL ABOUT HER! But if she'd ignore it, then people would certainly spread this. Making her silence the proof of guilt.
Johan Malmgren they would have reacted badly no matter what. Look up Xenatos Gambit. It's a technique where you contrive a situation where you always win (at least from your own perspective).
I wonder what's your thoughts on the fact that the fbi recently closed their gamergate case on Anita and wu and Quinn because they couldn't find any evidence that gamergate sent them threats or that they are a harassment campaign
Given that most internet harassment victims have to explain to law enforcement what Twitter is and the response is often "why not just stop going on the internet?" don't put too much weight in the failure of the FBI to effectively prosecute internet crimes. They are lagging far behind modern technology.
Or you know just block the trolls and ignore them Like I do I get called a ponyfag all the time and I can cry about it and ask people to donate to my patreaon or just ignore and block them
hay are you gonna actually provide any evidence, I just watched a video by Netscape debunking this enter video, and he was actually able to provide evidence. unlike whatever agenda you were trying to push here.
Innuendo Studios Also I think all law enforcement knows what social media is They aren't middle age men in their 60's who complain that candy cost 60 cents
Getting called "ponyfag" on occassion is completely different than being Doxxed and having your personal details leaked, having swat teams break into your house, or being sent ongoing and specific death or rape threats by the thousands on all facets of your media outlets. Anita Sarkeesian and other feminists have far too many trolls to simply block all of them.
Samuel Noa Greén Well, you see, it's a Gish Gallop. He machine guns out so many unattributed "facts" and assertions while injecting half-truths periodically. Then after all of his slander where he states people who disagree with the merits of the work of people like Anita do so either because they don't listen or are misogynist he says that you're a schmuck for attempting to reply to it. He makes charges against the character of people that taints any reply they make. If I start a debate with you by calling you an anti-semite, or a woman hater, or a rapist, you've suddenly got a steep hill to climb before you can say a single intellectually honest thing with any credibility. Combining slander into a Gish gallop makes the task of defending your character monumental before you can even get to any of the points. Proof of lies is an interesting tack to look at this with as well. As the arguer, it is on him to provide adequate proof which he fails to do. For example, his whole Gamergate started on pol and pol is a Neo-nazi group therefore gamergate is a nazi group is so many logical fallacies piled on each other. In the link he uses to show the white supremacy angle, it shows one self aggrandizing e-celeb go nuts and the participants in gamergate voice disgust and opposition to his holocaust denial statements. Where does that actually show the people within this movement endorsing those ideas in any way? As an example, Anita Sarkeesian once said: “The US bombed them back to traditional values - feminism does not exist in Japan. While I don’t like judging an entire culture…that does not excuse them.” I'm assuming that very few people would agree with her statement as aside from being extremely insensitive to the deaths of 900 000 civilians in firebombing raids and atomic fallout it's completely inaccurate; Japan underwent a rapid cultural westernization after WW2. Now, does this mean that everyone in anti-gg (which again, despite assertions is a specific and identifiable group of typically financially comfortable white people) believes in what she just said? I like to think her brand of lunacy is limited to her and MacIntosh and wouldn't attribute it to anyone else. He is however very comfortable in portraying the ideas of kingofpol as happily adopted by the masses of GG. But that's just one of his points, the frequency with which he spouts off his brand of nonsense makes the task of undoing it monumental. The only way to really undo his mess to anyone who managed to swallow it is to start all over with shapes and colours and work our way up to logic and proper attribution. A very heavy confirmation bias is required to watch this video and go "yeah, that makes complete sense".
Banokuy He never said that everyone who disagrees with Anita is a misogynist. He's referring specifically to one particular mind of person: Angry Jack. Jack's not necessarily even misogynistic in the traditional sense so much as someone who takes feminist critique personally due to the nagging feeling that he's being judged. In fact I don't recall Jack ever being called "misogynist" at all in the video. The argument is that GamerGate's origins in /pol/ and /rk9/ and the harassment that came from it mean that the others who participate in it are aiding the harassers in their original goals, not that they themselves are harassers or that their seperate goal of improving ethics doesn't exist. I understand that this is hurtful to people who legitimately believe they're in it for the ethics but I don't see how it's wrong.
As well as anti-gg'ers claiming anyone who disagrees with the feminist agenda is a sexist intolerant alt righter. These are the same dumbasses who actually think Russia hacked the election.
Whenever I hear the term "fake news", I have flashbacks of GG. There has been a pervading skepticism of the media for decades. To be a journalist is to have a sacred duty: report current events to the general public accurately and neutrally. In America at least, journalist are viewed like insurance agents and used car salesmen. A lot of people think that journos have sold out, compromising on principle to make an extra buck. This claim isn't completely unsubstantiated and has been around for generations (give "Dirty Laundry" by Don Henley, written in '82, a listen). Donald Trump deftly played that card, turning it into a shield against both good and bad criticism. All he has to do to deflect arguments made by the MSM is invoke that skepticism. GG worked off the same principle: gamers have been suspicious of big gaming new outlets for a myriad of reasons, for a long time. Why do the games of big, wealthy publishers seem to get a special leniency when their games are reviewed? Why do gaming journos not talk about shitty DLC practices? Why is it that professional reviews are usually significantly more positive than community reviews. It was assumed that money was changing hands, but there was never proof. The Quinn story broke and they finally had their evidence. It wasn't good evidence (read: wasn't evidence at all), but they weren't going to let go. The idea that gaming journalism is corrupt was so "obviously" true, it didn't matter how bad the supporting claim was. From what I saw, this was the majority position of GG. Yes, the center of GG was that cesspit /pol/. Yes, more than just the fringe engaged in and condoned through omission some especially heinous harassment. However, I don't think it's fair that you paint all the "Jacks" with the same brush. I think saying that most GGers were insecure about their idea of "what a gamer is" being challenged is gaslighting. A lot of people, myself included, had those suspicions about the industry and snapped up the "five guys" story uncritically; it's the sort of thing that happens when you stick to preconceived notions. Luckily I took a second look and saw behind the curtain. I didn't want women excluded from gaming, quite the contrary. Pardon me if I seem offended at the claim.
To be honest there was two small factions and one large faction. Anti gamer gate and gamer gate is the small groups. The large one being everyone else who didn't even care either way.
Step 1: find something your opponents believe in.
Step 2: pretend to believe in said thing, but make only stupid, fallacious arguments in support of your new “position”
Step 3: using separate account, attack the flaws in your own previous argument.
Step 4: watch the thread burn.
I’m convinced that this happens all the time and I really think you should discuss it.
Sounds like high effort strawmanning.
This is functionally the only way to even successfully start a thread in the post-gamergate 4chan
@@StainlessHelena In some highly competitive games, high level players with a smaller pool of opponents will run 2 accounts at once at their matchmaking rating with the hope of playing against themselves and artificially boosting their rating. Of course, this is cheating and it takes a lot of work to set up, but it's still a shortcut to a higher ladder score.
Doesnt seem relevant? Look at people like Steven Crowder and Ben Shapiro. They frame their debate videos as if they are on equal grounds, but their videos are about how their opponents cant formulate an argument. The implication is that their ideas are superior while in reality they are using under-handed tactics to defeat the unprepared.
Look at how Shairo melted down on BBC, for example. He's used to catching people off-guard and turning conversation into debate, but he got called out and left when his strategy didn't work.
Yes. Both anti-gamergate and gamergate crowds did this and we see with this video who did a better job of it. Cuz at the end of the day, the corruption in games journalism hasn't changed, but people still talk about how sexist a hashtag movement was.
@@Heeroneko Cuz gamergate didn't have any evidence for the "corruption" in games journalism. The movement largely didn't care about actual questionable ethical practices, the actual goal was simply to silence through intimidation criticism they don't like / don't want to hear.
Fortunately our society largely doesn't try to fix problems there is no evidence they exist. (Note "voter ID" laws are similarly just a cover to bias the results of elections not actually do anything about voter fraud).
"I hate when leftists sneak their politics into games! Anyways, time to go play my favorite game, Bioshock."
And what real world politics is forced into BioShock?
Leeham Doherty criticizing ayn rand’s philosophies and generally capitalism. showing how a society with her politics would ultimately fail
Great memories of that time when a gator said that Nier Automata didn't force politics into its narrative like Western games do.
Afterwards I'll play my favorite game series, Metal Gear.
Bioshock is a carefully built deconstruction of what is a philosophy made by Ayn Rand, without being too influenced by modern politics necessarily. This is very different because this one was made organically and isn't forced, and is obligated to put great arguments as well as be creative to keep the player entertained. Not only that, but it doesn't target gaming itself and how it works for functions, but a different philosophy outside of it.
In the other hand, what feminism particularly regarding video games has done is act like strong female protagonists don't exist while very famous ones like Samus do, many feminists including Anita hated the old Tomb Raider design for being sexually appealing, and then when they changed her and made her buffer and shrinked her boobs, they hated this new one again for looking too "male-ish". They contributed to Dead or Alive not coming to the west, and half-assed measures like how Mortal Kombat 11 made women wear more clothing and armor because "it doesn't make sense for them to be half-naked in a battle", which makes sense and I think armor would look better on characters, but then they have all the male characters be half naked still. Not only that, but this politics are being forced, they aren't about a "choice". You don't get to choose if your character is half naked or not, you can't just make an alternate costume of your favorite character on your bikini, while others choose cool armor. You're forced to take the armor, because that's what feminism has been enforcing.
oof, that addition of "Ian Miles Cheong" on that list of "good guys" tho.. did not age well.
Oopsie Doopsie
yikes! wowzers! holy batman! erm...OOF!
Stfu
True. Ian became a good guy after a contrite apology. 👌
And Notch :(
*GG:* Go on. Tell them your name.
*Ian:* My name is Reek...
I was 14 years old at the time of Gamer Gate.
I very much angry about game journalism. But mostly mad that videogames were being criticized. As a lonely teenager video games were part of my identity and criticizing videogames as a whole felt like an attack on me.
Cringe
It's good to try to analyse one's personal psychological motivations, but don't project these motivations on others or suggest that these psychological motivations were the only reason people thought what they thought. I'm not saying you are doing this, but some will read that into your comment considering the content of this video.
Being able to cringe at something in your past means you've grown as a person. Gg
You were right to stick up for an industry you had an interest in.
Revisit those dark days with the new 105-minute documentary on Sargon, MRAs, and GamerGate: YT search for "Munted, Random"
at least you were just a teenager. It's much worse when adult men think like that.
Comments: "Ugh! Trigger warning!? I can't take this seriously! All 20 minutes of content can be dismissed out of hand because trigger warning".
It's tongue-in-cheek. Every episode starts that way.
Tongue in cheek ? Yea. Sure.
@@DavidHeizer If you think such comments are "tounge in cheek": than theirs kittens on Mars.
@@brano13177 You think he's being dead serious? Really?
@@davidliz2260 Poes Law Applies
It's always weird to hear Ian Miles Cheong be mentioned in a good light, considering what he has become
When did that change? I only learned about gamer gate in retrospect (no internet at the time) and by that point cheong had turned full reactionary
@@fleromor To be honest, Cheong has always been a disingenuous coward with no courage of conviction who will abandon one position when he hears another he can latch onto more effectively.
truly, he is now the "banana man"
@@fleromor It was around that time from memory. He was always a grifter, but I think he started seeing more traffic on his twitter interactions just rolled with it.
@@fleromor Apologies for the late reply, but yeah as others have said he was always a grifter who didn't actually believe in anything. BUT he "switched sides" shortly after Witcher 3 came out. He used Anita doing a review critical of it as his reason for "switching sides" because it was his favorite.
I am ashamed to say I once was an anti feminist because I thought people were attacking someone I cared about without understanding it. It was so easy to fall down the rabbit hole of hating straw-men that were never real. It felt so good to be angry.
Same, my man. I'm really ashamed of how I used to act/behave/think. But we're out the other side. Keep growing as a person and the world will be a better place. 😉
@@tehawes0mesauceOn the bright side tho, nowadays we have access to information(like this video for example) that can help us to figure out what the hell is going on, but can you imagine how would have been 30 years ago? Following something, being part of something, believing in something that was a lie all along, and then never being able to find out unless you are lucky enough to meet the right people?
Can you imagine being a type of person that you don't want to be for years, and just finding out about that much, MUCH later?
I'm really glad that at least today people have some access to videos like this. Without the internet people wouldn't have a choice but to be trapped.
I'm still an anti feminist. Feminism is a bane on society and is the reason the nuclear family no longer exists. I was only ever angry with feminists in the beginning because they started attacking gamers FIRST. This guy is leaving that part out completely. He's also lying by saying that it wasn't about ethics, because it was. The actual journalists turned it into something else.
@@jaywest3734 How did feminists attack gamers?
@@human9452 You're not stupid, you got out of it and recognized that the information you were taking at face value was wrong. Do you know how hard that is to do for most people?
"The culture of gaming is changing around him, and he wants someone to tell him that the problem is the culture, not him."
This explains the anti-feminist and other alt-right movements far beyond gamergate, tbh.
No it doesn't
@@ShowtimeAtWaco Sure it does. Anti-feminists, so-called ethno-nationalists, fundamentalists, etc. feel displaced by a world where concepts of gender, diversity, and marriage/family are both more fluid and have a more progressive hold on cultural discourse than what they're willing to accept. Their respective subcultures recruit with the promise that the culture is the problem, not them.
It's basically the story of conservatism, gamergate is just one flashpoint in a long-running theme.
@@julian5675 Wow that's actually woke
@@ShowtimeAtWaco I should've clarified in the OP that I didn't mean gaming culture specifically/exclusively :)
@Subi_fan Citation needed. Fourth wave feminism (which is intersectional feminism) has actually made feminism more popular with a recent poll showing that more people than ever consider themselves to be feminist.In that poll only 25% of people said they were against feminism, that is not anywhere close to most peopletoday.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2018/08/09/feminism-american-women-2018
Am I the only one who's so sad that the people who have a genuine right to be angry with the world (people that suffer constant harassment from angry jack) aren't allowed to be angry??
You can't show its getting to you, or you just reinforce their "angry sjw" stereotype
This is the absurdity of anti-SJW, they cry that people "cry and yell for nothing" but they are crying and yell when ever those people get the rights and legitimacy they already have for century.
Pingwn It’s a common tactic of narcissists everywhere. Foul the shit out of someone, and then start rolling around on the court like s/he ran into you, so you can turn that foul right back around on them.
Not the onlyone. It Is desesperanig, want to stop the discrimination and get attaked to even dare to mention the that the discrimination exist
The problem isnt that the feminists have a right to be angry, the problem is that femenists were saying their anger was the *only* one that was justified while ignoring all their provocations of people in the gaming community. This video has no idea what it is talking about.
@@dfmrcv862 "Baby, why you gotta make me hit you like that?"
Gaters are not to be confused with gators. One group's members are cold blooded creatures that will latch on to something and shake and slam it until it's ripped into bits, and the other group's members are alligators.
thank god someone else made a joke about alligators so I don't have to think about one and make it myself
@@alessia9328 no problem! always happy to talk about alligators.
Nice.
thank you so much for this i needed it in my life
I like alligator 🐊
Man, it REALLY dates this video having Ian Miles Cheong being a sympathetic figure.
Honestly, as someone who didn't really get into Twitter until after GamerGate petered out, it amazes me that he was actually right about something for one brief shining moment.
Too bad it didn't seem to agree with him.
(Not saying he deserved any manner of harassment of course, it's just amazing what a complete 180 he did.)
From a Female gamer who was fed up at 10 of the stagnated portrayal of women in games, thank you for this video!!
Do you even game ?
I love and respect you.
siddbastard Good catch, buddy! She clearly just SAID she games in order to skew the perspective. Cause why would an actual gamer weigh in with a genuine thought in a relevant forum? Amirite?
Play better games then! Like Jagged Alliance and Wing Commander and Divinity!
@@Dominiqueuqinimod to him “gamer” and “wamen” are mutually exclusive terms
Y'know what's funny is exactly how many of Trump's tactics are exemplified in this video. His usage of bullying terminology to "discredit" his detractors is a core methodology of Trump.
That's because Donald Trump was promoted by the alt-right and the video details alt-right schemes and perspectives.
@@vaevictus4637 ,
Donald Trump is "alt-right"... weren't you aware of the neo-nazis in his administration and campaign, and transition team?
The Gamergaters have a lot in common with the president
@@aralornwolf3140 He never said he wasn't, just that he was promoted by the Nazis, which you have also claimed. If leaving a whole for Donald Trump to instead be a garden variety opportunist was deliberate, that's sensible. The man lives for plausible deniability, everything the Nazis have done for him, even this far in, falls under that. Alternatively the man just might not be literate enough to hide the racism, machismo, and other shit behind American conservative rhetoric the way he's 'supposed to.' It's a sensible and justifiable hole to leave in the unlikely advent that he is, in fact, what he presents to people rather than something more extreme acting like the person he wants to be (as the vast majority of human beings older than three do).
It's scary how accurate this is to modern politics:
GamerGate - Neo-Nazis
Angry Jack - Moderate Republicans
That moment when you are describing a very singular thing and then end up explaining conservative politics for the last 40 years...
exactly
Yeah... and, unfortunately, the "next 4chan raid" was the 2016 election. They took gamergate tactics and weaponized it at a national or even international scale... and since it worked so well, they have only ramped up their efforts ever since. I hope we can turn this around before it turns into outright fascism. However, it looks like it's still heading in that direction. :(
It feels like this is the prequel to alt-right playbook.
@@ToyKeeper I come from the future. things get better.
@@Charlie-wl2qt At least for a while, yeah. But it remains to be seen if the long-term trend is better now, or if the next 4 years are just a brief break.
In particular, I hope people today won't repeat the mistakes of the Weimar Republic, which failed because it tried to fund progressive programs with regressive taxes. That's like trying to pay off a credit card with another credit card.
Things are looking up now, but it's unclear if the people in charge are bold enough to do what needs to be done. So we've got to push them pretty hard to fix the broad strokes of the economy, redistributing resources downward by moving the tax burden back up toward the rich.
That moment when you realize a video objectively criticizing online harassment has been infested by the very people the video criticizes.
Austin Garrett proves the point of the video.
*ULTIMATE OOF*
Isn't that the idea? I mean, what would be the point of posting at all if all you reach is some Tumblr-level echo chamber?
kukalakana well what are you trying to say exactly? Do you think you could explain in more detail?
I mean if you are trying to make a persuasive argument, then why would you not wish to attract as broad a spectrum of people & viewpoints as possible? If the only people you end up speaking to are those who already agree with you (essentially preaching to the choir), then what's the fucking point of even trying speak on this or any subject?
So I started watching these videos when Contrapoints mentioned them in her most recent video The Apocalypse. I'm honestly surprised that has been up for over three years now and not only does it have more likes than dislikes, but nearly three times as many more likes. That's pretty cool.
I looked up the Stephen Colbert and Anita Sarkeesian video and dear God. 13K likes and 46K dislikes.
Its possible to disagree with Anita and not hate her and not discriminate against her for being a woman. Even in the early days of all this garbage, there were a few people who debated her points substancially and respectfully, without hatred or scorn. Unfortunately, too many gamers were just driven by hatred towards her and the other targets of gamergate and they said/did terrible things. They became the face of the community. Trying to talk out against them or to try to reason with them was like drinking from a firehose (at least on my favorite sites that got "infected").
I remember seeing that Colbert interview when it aired and it just made me sad. I'm like "See Gamergate? You legitimized her. Even if she was ever wrong about anything, she isn't now". Its terrible that she got death threats and had to get protection (I remember she was asked about that in the interview)... but then, that wasnt something unique to her or unique to women. It shouldnt happen to anyone.
There was an argument made that Anita wasnt even a gamer herself. Well if thats true, its even more true for the people who started gamergate. Its kinda ironic so many gamers got used as pawns and were corrupted in this internet war initiated by people who didnt even care about games.
@@nighthoodlupin3500 so she is a liar. You know it. Everybody knows it. But you still don't hate her? That makes you think. Wait no. I already made up my mind about you.
@Lyle - Theres no reason to hate anyone. Hatred aganst other people is a disease and not constructive at all. Hatred is the feeling of losing sides of arguments and its weak. This is actually the first time I've seen someone willingly admit they want to hate someone and wish others to hate others as well. I wish you well.
@@nighthoodlupin3500 stop this everybody is my friend bullshit. And that last line ''wish all the good in the world cheers love xoxo'' is disgusting. Where is the problem when I say I hate a liar? Let's not hold hands and sing kumbaya in unison.
@Lyle - That's not what I said at all. You're literally putting words in my mouth. You seem to be extrapolating to make me look worse to yourself for whatever reason. I guess you either hate me already or are looking to hate me and want me to hate you back. You seemed to ask me why I chose not to hate so I told you. I don't think its healthy or helpful and it deligitimizes what I'm saying if I'm saying it from a place of hatred and weakness. It can only lead to unhelpful reactions. If you want to hate that's your problem, I only said I wish you well because, like I said, I see hate like a sickness. The world is full of hatred and no one is singing "kumbaya" and I have no friends, but I'm not going to corrupt myself with hatred, to let this world crush me and win.
lol at people triggered by the trigger warning. Gotta love the internet.
Daniel Cabrona the reason for a trigger warning is to stop people from being "triggered", to be triggered has often been described as an involuntary reaction of anxiety, depression and pains that go with it.
when people are annoyed with the idea of a trigger warning I don't actually think they've been "triggered", but, any way to try to insult the people you disagree with is a valid argument for you I guess.
N3v3rD13 565 trigger warnings only make sense when the reaction people have really is "involuntary anxiety and depression" and i feel like that is not how they are used so, yes, i think using "being triggered" in a more general way - when trigger warnings are also used for so much more - is fair.
Getting angry isn't being triggered.
But if trigger warnings need trigger warnings, wouldn't we need trigger warnings on those? Oh god, what have you done?
W Miller Used a reasonable method to prevent unnecessary trauma...?
Hearing Ian Miles Cheong be called a victim of right-wing harassment gave me whiplash
I only know him from his modern day twitter shit, and the fact that he was on the RIGHT side of gamergate is so astounding to me
Hey, "angry Jack" here, you're right, I'm still here I'm just a leftist trans woman now because I realized that the reason I didn't want to face or admit any of these things was because I didn't want to admit to myself that I was trans and transition. I was angry and scared and I'm sorry.
Better late than never, and you got your whole life ahead of you to make up for that (if you feel that's even necessary)
Go be the best you!
@@c0nd0rd4myt thanks! I do feel it's necessary and I'm doing my best to help rather than hurt now.
Said no one ever.
@@r-prizzle2168 someone *exists* you: this person doesn't exist
Same here, actually.
Why do they need an excuse? Can't they just read or watch something else other than feminist criticism? That is what's always puzzled me.
gentlerat speaking as someone who was previously involved in such right wing circles, it is addicting as it makes you feel a) smart, b) valid, c) part of a community. At the core of it for me was trying to find my ‘identity’, something i’ve struggled with my entire life until i discovered i was trans. I think thats why many trans people are allured by these groups before finding out they’re trans. Similar to people characterising themselves as ‘gamers’, it makes you feel unique, something almost everyone wants
I don't understand this. I know this is old, and no one will see it, but this seems like the best comment to reply. I couldn't help but think this while watching the entire series thus far. If you don't like the games... Just don't play them. If you don't like the reviews, don't read them. I've personally never sent a tweet to Anita or Quinn and I don't recognize any of the other lefties (because that's what this really is, left vs right). Never read an article written by them. I've been subbed to the Gate channels and I guess participated as a passive, sympathetic observer. The thing is, I do like scantily clad women in my games, just like I like them irl. I don't like walking simulators about feelings. I like games about shooting stuff and blowing shit up and saving the world. If gaming is "by men for boys" I don't understand why there needs to be a change in the games popular with males. Why not just make different games that women like? Why does every game need to include everyone? Like, I don't play rainbow six siege because it's too difficult to learn the maps and meta. It's too hardcore of a game for me to get into. Should I be petitioning Ubi to make smaller, simpler maps or dumb down the mechanics? I mean I guess I understand the argument that it contributes to how men view women... But, does it tho? Isn't this the "video games make boys violent" argument?
@@cloudy_gomo Exactly. Vote with your wallet. Buy games you like and don't buy games you don't like. Understand that some people disagree and have different tastes and move on. Don't make it any more complicated than that. It doesn't need to be.
Becz self righteous high kerps u Away from ur identity
@@cloudy_gomo I do get where you are coming from, but there are a few misconceptions in your comment:
-The first one is the importance of Anita Sarkeesian. She is NOT important to the left; i wouldn't even call her a leftist, she simply shares some progressive ideas of the 80s. She doesn't bring up any new ideas and is profoundly boring for anyone who has engaged with feminist theory. If you want to know what media critique that actually shapes minds and has relevance in the left looks like, go listen to H.Bomberguy or Contrapoints.
While it would be reaching too far to call Anita a strawmen, this does mean that if your only point of contact with media critique from the left is her, you dont actually know what you're talking about - because she is only important to the right, not to the left.
-The second misconception is the role of media critique itself. Telling others what you see in certain media isn't (by itself) a petition for change. Rather, it serves to open minds: If certain tropes are everywhere and became so normal you dont even see them anymore, simply adressing them is already enough to create a massive outcry. Talking about sexism in games doesn't mean those games are bad.
I made comments on here years ago defending gamergate, I wanted to be a part of something, I did really believe in improving journalistic standards but I became embroiled in an ideology of needless hatred and dogma. I regret it deeply.
I realise now that you don't need to be part of a "movement" to advocate good journalism and you especially don't need to be a part of a movement coopted and used by hateful ideologues just to be accepted as part of a in-group, eventually my cares for media integrity turned into thoughts of white supremacy and misogyny, even if I had convinced myself I was neither sexist nor racist I absolutely did unconsciously support racist and sexist agendas.
For those watching whom were in a similar situation to me, you can get out, you can admit that you did have bad thoughts and you can move past it and whilst it may hurt to admit you're were wrong at first then you'll feel much better for doing so eventually.
@Toxic Slug correcting my grammar doesn't actually address the point I was making, and at no point did I suggested you were a bad person, a misogynist nor a white supremacist. In fact we may have similar experiences.
I too didn't want to believe that I could support hateful ideologues and in my mind I knew that I didn't. What I didn't realise was that I had inadvertently come on to the side of people who advocated for hate and psudeo science, race sciences, climate denial, misogyny etc. People like Milo and PJW and Sargon, pundits and bloggers I may have put on a face of tolerance but I could feel disdain for certain groups of people in my heart, that cause me to be reactionary to what I thought was a threat of 'SJW' culture in media.
I believe that gaming journalism sucks and can be better improved. I don't believe that I need to complain about the existence of black people or women in films to do that, I don't care about "PC culture" or "Forced diversity" or whatever other buzzphrase I can now see the irony in supporting publications like 'One Angry Gamer' whilst simultaneously accusing video game publications of being too politically charged
It's only no longer a threat because the election loss blew it all up with infighting (Which is still going for that matter) which also resulted in it becoming unprofitable too.
If BoB hadn't divided the opposition, it would probably still be a necessity.
It *did* get a heck of a lot of people just looking for a quick buck though.
Also the irc was telling Usher not to give the GJP mails to milo, but he was pretty naive and thought he was a centrist. That's pretty much where everything went haywire.
the left wing side of it where I hung out like bunkerchan, /stirn/, and leftypol also didn't really give a damn bout ethics, but just hurting corporations and their jackboots in general. So everyone anti-gg automatically became seen as corporate shills and "bootlicking bourgeois bitches." Which to be fair, *many* obviously were! Or trust fundies LARPing as being 'progressive.'
Hey, at least one good thing to come out was you could tell who was bought & paid by the DNC at a glance just by looking at how it was covered! If an "-ism" or "hurrassment" comes up in the analysis, you know that entire publication is compromised and _an absolute piece of lying trash!_ Then you can dismiss them and find _actual_ honest & good publications like Counterpunch and Mint Press! Purge thy Mind of the spooky neoliberalist brainworms!
Der Pferdehuführer Is this a misplaced comment...?
@@saltoftheegg No, it's a bit confusing, but seems appropriately place.
How and why?
"We heard you, you're right, the problem isn't you" pretty much sums up the main goal gamergate perfectly.
That line about Ian Miles Cheong has aged *poorly*
Any chance of an explanation for stupid 'ol me?
@@andrina118 he's gone back to saying bigoted shit
@@voidify3 No surprises that the dog returned to his vomit.
@@andrina118 he's a member of (or at least aligned with) the proud boys
@@andrina118 He became far-right, said that climate change isn’t real, praised Adolf Hitler, etc
a lot of people in the comments want to believe they aren't a part of the problem
As does the video author
@@PvblivsAelivs He isn't tho. This video is about unnecessarily angry people and he's not angry, simply stating facts.
@@cutienerdgirl
You can tell yourself that. But it doesn't look to me like he is stating facts. It looks like he is trying to paint "other guys" as "the problem."
@@PvblivsAelivs how is the video author part of the problem? He's helping a lot by making this video as far as i can tell
@@jim_hawkins_blues
Why so angry, Jack? And if you thought that was inappropriate, _that_ is how he is part of the problem. He is pointing fingers at people he disagrees with, makes unfounded accusation, and treats those he agrees with as blameless.
"BUT YOU COULD SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT TUMBLRINA SJWS!!!!"
I think that, in addition to bringing on Angry Jack, Gamergate also had to create the illusion of an opposing force: the SJWs.
casersatz can you expand on what you mean by illusion of an opposing force?
Salman Shurie an SJW wouldnt tell me which song by the bee gees youre supposed to resuscitate people to the beat of and my son died in my arms because i tried to use 'how deep is your love'
***** That's some serious shit, man...
***** ...wtf
Salman Shurie An SJW is basically a strawman- or stawoman, generally. Whenever a reactionary, racist, misogynist says something awful, people like Angry Jack immediately waive it away by saying that 'SJWs' are just as bad and making up things that results in stupid-looking armor.
This whole series is amazing. It’s like a case study on all conservative methodology.
I used to be Angry Jack around the time this video came out. I used to be so scared of being the bad guy that I’d have to dismiss everyone else in order to feel that way. I was the straight cis white middle class man who wanted to feel like I was fighting the good fight without actually doing anything.
Of course, now I’m the exact opposite. Depression Quest was amazing, and it started to make me wonder about the artistry of games. What they were trying to say. All of my favorite games either had something to say, or were so arcadey that they said nothing past “beat the baddies.”
It made me start to wonder what my beliefs actually were, and why I felt that way, and why I was crying myself to sleep every other night.
With a lot of introspection and not a small amount of antidepressants, I was able to finally purge the actual reason.
Fear.
Now, I’m a lot happier. Not perfect, of course, and probably still below average. But still so much better.
Looking back, I cringe at the maladjusting manchild I was, realizing how immature and head-in-the-sand I was before. Now, I’m relatively happy woman doing well in school, and still coasting on my economic privilege without pretending it isn’t there.
That's awesome to hear, while I once got wrapped on the "ethics in journalism" narrative on gamergate, threats in general have always been an unjustified method for me, so I drifted away. Gotta say, looks like I didn't miss much.
Revisit those dark days with the new 105-minute documentary on Sargon, MRAs, and GamerGate: YT search for "Munted, Random"
Wow you've been brainwashed.
Well, at least you weren't yelling at people in cars, because they looked at you in what you thought was a funny way, like the author of the videos.
@@sunkintree sup angry jack?
Boy do those anime icons really swarmed into the comment section like fleas on a English Mastiff
blazinggamer606 Hey, atleast Star Wars one of the better animes out there
If you think this dude's profile icon is bad, check out his channel banner. Hot damn.
Ben Seriously....
@@oromain The irony. If the anime icons are fleas this guy is a full blown intestinal parasite.
If you have an anime icon your argument is invalid
HOLY SHIT, THANK YOU, IVE BEEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GAMERGATE WAS FOR SO LONG. Jesus Christ, it shouldn’t have been this hard to do some damn research.
wild to think that Ian Miles Cheong used to be a victim of anti-feminist harassment, given his more recent positions and statements
What did he say?
In retrospect, he wasn't even the only one during gamergate with that theme. Candace Owens started her political career during this time trying to stand up to racial violence. Then she quickly threw Zoe to the wolves when it was convenient for her, and well... here we are now.
It's worth noting that Ian Miles Cheong completely switched sides since this video was published.
I'd wondered about that. I remember thinking "Hey, I've heard that name. ...Isn't he an asshole?" Either then he was an asshole who did a non-asshole thing, or he's become an asshole since.
or you mistake good vs bad in terms of cringey internet slap fights, so he's either a good dude or an asshole regardless of this squabble.
So he was a racist first, anti-gamergater 2nd and now he's back to being racist?
The part missing from the video is that he apologized to Totalbiscuit and more importantly that his racist remarks were made in secret and later leaked.
He didn't just 'switch sides' he lost his fucking mind.
@@Armlace I thought TB was always left leaning?
14:05 In Spain we have an expression for people that are used in plans without them knowing like this: "Tonto útil", which would translate as "useful fool".
I think our term is "Useful Idiot." I think Noah Samsen just put out a video on the concept
@@orion0915 You lost the chance to make it into a pun and calling them "usefools"...
@@podemosurss8316 Truly embarrassing on our part
I found this after TotalBiscuit's passing, and that one quote made this all so surreal, like looking on a political argument from a lifetime ago. It's been roughly five years ago, yet feels ancient.
Revisit those dark days with the new 105-minute documentary on Sargon, MRAs, and GamerGate: YT search for "Munted, Random"
Gamer gate was Fightclub; Alt-Right is Project Mayhem.
And both are shit
So, the same thing?
Oh fuck.
@@tanuki01 More like more radicalized version. In the context of this video, normal Jacks are in the Club. The radicalized Jacks are in Mayhem.
**claps**
Trigger Warning: Angry arguments about using the phrase "Trigger warning" follow. Please do not read the comments below if you wish to retain your faith in humanity
We are beyond humanity at this point
So proper scientific study on mental health would cause you to lose faith in humanity lol?
slate.com/technology/2019/07/trigger-warnings-research-shows-they-dont-work-might-hurt.html
@@sillypsyborg huh.
The irony of saying Ian Miles Chong isn't a nazi is funny. I know this video is 5 years old but he has changed... :(
One of the weirdest tendencies I noticed happening in GamerGate's discourse, was a push against "feminists, SJWs, and the PC Police censoring video games", while simultaneously pushing for "objective reviews", and arguing that you shouldn't push "political agendas" in game reviews... even though pressuring privately owned review sites to not publish certain opinions kind of fits GamerGate's own definition of the dreaded *"censorship"*.
They seem to hold game review sites up as some sort of Holy Text that shouldn't be corrupted, and they seem incapable of taking their own advice. "If you don't like that game, don't play it!" ... Um, why not simply not read reviewers or sites you don't like? Why should they HAVE to change to fit your preferences of what you want to read? Why do you even need reviews at all?? Do you need to be TOLD what to buy??
I have never heard movie, TV, or book reviews being talked about like this, video games have to be this one weird exception for some reason...
Aaron Sanders I can kinda see your point, but not really. As in it wasn’t that politically correct. I don’t really see a problem with the movie.
@Aaron Sanders Yep and Black Panther. Coincidentally it's the same "extremely logical" white males who are triggered by all of this
That's the ultimate paradox of it all. I can't help but be remind of the religious fundamentalist that screamed about their "freedom of religion" being taken away because they cant enforce their religion on others. Ironic, considering a lot of GG use to be against the fundies doing that. Now they do the same for "free speech."
Remember folks, anti-SJWs only believe in free speech when straight white males are the ones using it.
Subi_fan Sounds more like Gamergate then the evil "far left" game reviewers. The fact you even call these people "far left" is really telling.
Don't people ever get tired of this "if you disagree you only prove I am right!"?
I was Jack, I remember being Jack. It's a terrifying thought. I'm glad that I've learned so much, but I'm distressed that it took realizing I was trans, and thus, not a straight male, to finally begin on the path to realizing I was wrong. If I had found this video years ago, I wouldn't have watched it. I couldn't have watched it. To watch it would have been to incriminate myself, and to suggest that I was wrong. As happy as I am to know better now, it horrifies me that I was a monster for so long.
You're literally me even down to the being trans part. God, why am I tearing up? Fuck.
Despite being the ideal target of anti-sjw(the correct gender, sexual orientation, race and ammount of money), I don't think they could have ever gotten me. Being bullied made me annoyed by people wanting to keep the world exacly as it is lol.
Yeah, not being a straight male is a great way out of feeling like people hate you for being a straight male. Fortunately, the straight males are actually all evil, otherwise this would be a sign that the good guys are doing something wrong.
The table metaphor is in relation to facts vs conspiracy is golden. Perfect visual representation.
7:00 The Ian Cheong thing aged...pretty poorly
Angry Jack here. (Working on changing that.)
I genuinely didn't know the facts of the situation. All the information I had about it was from creators like Sargon. Half way through the video I was typing up along comment about how Innuendo Studio glossed over the controversy about Zoe's intimate relationships. But I was wrong.
Despite all the talk from Sargon and creators like him about "feminist echo chambers" I couldn't see that I was in an echo chamber of my own...
Disclaimer: The worst actions from me (as far as I can recall) in relation to GG were disliking videos. No angry tweets, comments or flagging.
The "facts" are straight up wrong though...
Check out Gamergate Wiki, or Deepfreeze for a more documented factual view.
@@TheRealVordox Then name a falsehood.
Revisit those dark days with the new 105-minute documentary on Sargon, MRAs, and GamerGate: YT search for "Munted, Random"
@@sethbritton6970 Zoe defined a set of unethical behaviors as rape. She proceeded to engage in those unethical behaviors that she had defined as rape. I'm okay with taking her at her word that she's a rapist.
I agree with most of this series, its really well done, but damn the defense of Ian Miles Cheong did not age well now that his true colors are out
What happened? :o
@@thinBillyBoy he became a total chud. Big creep. Went on these tirades about how he wished his country had a strong leader like Trump. Throughout BLM he would tell blatant lies. Cheered on a car that hit protesters. Swatted Andy Warski because he was mad about a video and admitted it.
Also just as a footnote because this was minor but notable for being just very very strange. He went on a tirade last year against men who took pictures with their pets. Basically was saying that they are soft and unmanly. Which just screams of insecurity. Werid guy. I'm only scratching the surface. Grab a puke bucket and browse his Twitter some time.
@@roshango125ab yep, a massive downgrade
@@thinBillyBoy He fully switched sides and disavowed everything feminist he said, began attacking feminist activists, supporting far-right ideology, deliberately joined in the massive misinformation campaigns of the most extreme right-wing groups, and even became a literal Hitler apologist. Pretty clear those "couple racist comments he apologized for and distanced himself from" were his true colors to begin with. Almost poetically it ended up being for basically nothing, a couple years ago it came out that he's Malaysian and lives there, and so now even in threads where he posts about how doxxing actual Nazis is a worse crime than anything Nazi Germany ever did and covers for groups like the Proud Boys, and calls for white Americans to seize power and declare martial law and purge minorities and non cis/het folk the very people he's stanning tell him to shut up and fuck off for being both not an American and not white.
@@FirestormMk3 That. Is a lot. Wow. Thank you for the info I appreciate it!
It is so fucking ironic that Ian Miles Cheong actually did end up in the nazi corner after all
One small addition: I also thought it was interesting how the gaming sides that actually had some "journalism integrity" problems (reviews reading like commericals, 8/10 reviews for buggy AAA games and so on) also used this alliance between the nazis and the angry jacks to lump everyone who criticed them into the angry jack category.
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY
BOTTOM TEXT
Wait, wait...
Ian Miles "Antifa hit me with a concrete milkshake" Cheong was a target of GamerGate?!
The dude who regularly hangs out with White Supremacists was NOT with the Gaters?
Wow...
He presented himself as anti GG before switching back hardcore. Professional grifter that Ian
That Ian Miles Cheong point seems a bit outdated now lol. Excellent vid. I myself used to be apart of that big crowd until I realized how wrong I was and the damage that was happening. You hit it out of the park my guy
We saw this "The enemy of my enemy is my friend no matter how sickening they are." all over again in Charlottesville. We have conservatives who have accused the left for decades of being nazis. Even claiming that the nazi support of Trump was a smoke screen by the left to discredit Trump. That weekend we saw them marching with flag carrying nazis. Claiming they themselves weren't racist. They just marched, cheered, and were pictured with racists and that shouldn't imply support of racism. In that weekend and the following news clips of neo nazis vocally fawning over Trump neo nazis earned their place within the right and stopped getting accused of being liberals in disguise.
I have never heard a Nazi fawn over trump mostly they hate him. But in Charlottesville we saw the right opt out of supporting Nazis. There was practically nobody there. It was pathetically small. We also saw the left support violent commmunist thugs and claim they did nothing wrong.
Well, actually, the Left *are* Nazis, speaking objectively. The Nazis believed in a hierarchy (racial, and to an extent, Liberals believe the same) where one race dominates the others, and Nazis also tried to exterminate Jews, along with a few other races, that they saw as the subhuman. Guess what? Feminists hate men and, at this point, a lot of Feminists are openly calling for the genocide of white men. And the fact that they're actually being *upvoted* is what's worrying. So, yeah, the Left are, in a way, Nazis. And don't call me an 'alt-right extremist' because I'm more of a centrist at times.
Also, you can't use someone's supporters to discredit them. You cannot choose who will support you.
@@the_katzy didn't watch the video did you
@@demonking-zm3rs Yes I did, I was just responding to this comment.
@@reesetorwad8346 Nazi destroyed by FACTS and LOGIC
#IWasAnAngryJack let's make it a thing.
Man, that part about Cheong hasn't aged well, huh?
To quote Shaun from Shaun and Jen fame 'that was before the ant colony got into his brain I guess'.
@@Vrex360 Lmaoo what video was that in?
@@Littlespooby His Cuphead one
@@Vrex360 That's still the wrong guy, Arthur Chu was the ant guy.
Well that's what people keep saying here in the comment section, so I suppose not
Whenever someone tries to present Gamergate as this "important moment in human history", I always ask:
"If it was so important, howcome South Park did not cover it?"
Probably because they'd end up taking some sort of half-ass milquetoast "both sides bad" EnLiGhTeNeD centrist stance and even they're not fucking stupid enough to do that with Nazis.
is it really important?
ZZAZZ I mean, it’s important in the sense that it exposed mainstream society to how shitty the gaming community generally is and significantly helped the careers of several of the feminists they claimed to hate.
@@ravenfrancis1476 Why should we care if the "gaming community" is shitty? There's a lot of shitty communities why even fix one that doesn't want to be fixed?
ZZAZZ So that mimorities in the community can have a safe space
Watching this and seeing Miles Ian mention, and looking where he is gave me whiplash
It's actually amazing to watch through this whole video, and scroll down to the comments section to find both Gaters AND Jacks using the exact argument tactics detailed in this video, with nary a nod or sense of self-awareness.
Very well done. Keep making these videos!
>Gamergate is going to attend a panel with the Society of Professional Journalists
>YOU'RE ALL DEAD HERE'S THE AUTOPSY
Will you guys ever stop saying that?
Gamergate has been dead since August.
pizzarelaguy Yet less and less people give a shit about it. BTW, you're doing exactly what he said in the video you'd do. Answer all criticism no matter what. (PSSSST....You're making this video look accurate, dumbass)
pizzarelaguy Are we supposed to be impressed that you suckered some idiot into creating a panel discussion that nobody besides GG wants to appear in, involves 2 people that don't play games, and that one GG'er has already flounced out of because they wouldn't give him more than 15 minutes to sum up your shit-show?
pizzarelaguy Except the panel isn't promoted by the SPJ and has actively had to tell the member organizing the panel to stop using their name. And literally only one or two people involved actually has any connection to GG, the others are just random anti-feminists.
Geary Excellent point! However, I don't think this GG guy cares about the facts. He just wants to steer the conversation as far to the extreme as possible so it can be on their terms. All they have to do is put out any information, true or false, and they can control the argument. They're worse than BIll O Reily
YourArgumentIsInvalid That' the biggest load of twisted logic bullshit I've ever heard. It's like saying "The KKK supports real civil rights, not that stupid victimhood crap Martin Luther King tried to pass off for as civil rights"
You sound dumb.
Watching this in 2020 and thinking: "Oh gosh, it's been so long ago since IMC was not a fascist for a hot minute..."
Boy, that Ian Miles Cheong bit sure aged gracefully lmao
This all ends up sounding like circular logic after establishing only one facet of GamerGate's origin. “GamerGate is evil and anything they say only proves that they're evil because this is what evil would do in GamerGate to hide that they're evil”.
Sigh, there's no point in rebutting anything here, really, because of all the fallacies that were employed.
I can see why Angry Jack is so angry, though.
Majątek ^Seriously, some of the comments here were literally saying that the ratio of likes to dislikes proved his points...
The Legionaries And that a likes to dislike ratio can be seen as direct proof that people dislike what he has said and only what he said, and not whether he sounded contemptuous, egotistical, or self-righteous. /sarcasm
To boil down why anyone disliked this video to validate one's bias is a massive oversimplification of a reaction to the video. As is every single "hi Angry Jack!" comment that automatically assumes anyone disagreeing with this video (or indeed series) is angry by default - thus invalidating legitimate criticism with "lol ur mad".
Honestly these people are just as bad as gamergaters (that is, the negative facet of GG), if not worse for being wholly disingenuous and relying so heavily on disinformation.
Majątek
I think they're worse than the negative facet of GamerGate because that facet is not nearly as self-righteous.
The Legionaries I dunno, even as someone who supports GamerGate I understand how bad GG goons (extremist anti-SJW, doxers, etc) can be.
But yeah, this video series is based upon the literal depiction and exact definition of a strawman, circular logic and disingenuous opinion that it's only doing more harm than good - but the creator is so oblivious to how close of a Poe he is that it ends up muddying the waters even further.
Like Innuendo Studios said, it's not a debate. It is, however, a constant attempt at slander from one side, and a constant unending angry rebuttal from the other - which the former side takes as validification of their slander. It's cyclical.
I love this whole series, and have used it a bunch for helping explain nuanced topics like this. Thanks for all the effort put into making these.
Thank you for breaking down what GamerGate actually was. When it was happening I was surrounded by a lot of toxic Jacks in my life and didn't really know anything about it except what they told me. I never cared enough to do my own research, but I always knew something about the "movement" didn't feel quite right
He was wrong 80% of the time.
But good effort on the lies.
If you want proper sources check up NotYourShield or DeepFreeze and do your own research which disapproves all of this video's misinformation.
@@TheRealVordox Well, you are definitely acting like the Angry Jacks in the video.
@@poweroffriendship2.0 I don't care about what others label me, as long as the evidence proves what I say is right.
Tired of lies.
@@TheRealVordox Well, if you are tired of lies, then maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusion because your claims about the so-called "lies" are vague. I can already tell that you are an Angry Jack, even if you don't care if you're labeled as such. So if I disagree with you, then you think I judged you for that.
At least Innuendo Studios did some research (and the sources are in the description) compared to some angry reactionary channels whose only sources are from 4Chan and they think they are correct into everything only for them to be proven wrong otherwise. Sorry but your arguments are invalid.
@@poweroffriendship2.0 Claims? I already said 2 keywords that tells you everything you need to know with evidence of what happened.
Innuendo - If you are still making videos I think it might be time to revisit this topic. Particularly what you talked about in the second half of this video about it not being over.
I wish I found this when it was first posted. Thank you for this. The whole gamergate thing, for me, a male gamer who's been playing avidly since 1989 on the NES, has been one of the most alienating things I've ever been through. I wasnt even an Angry Jack, i found myself disagreeing with literally everyone, caught in the middle and completely alone. I was sad more than angry. I was against Anita but also against all the horrible things she was being bombarded with. I couldnt be an Angry Jack because I knew all the things Gamergate was pushing was going to destroy any level of credibility I or others who felt like me had. Also, I considered myself a feminist from quite a young age, so once the misogynistic rherotic started showing up in all my usual, favorite gaming sites, I was done.
But now that I've seen this I feel a little better but incredibly freaked out at the extent and insideousness of this culture war thats been being waged on the internet. It makes me want to live an internet-free life even more now. For all the good things the internet has done, I dont think its been worth it. Its been taken over by the worst people in the world and its been benefiting them more than anyone. Its changed our whole real world. Despite all the progress happening around us, we as induviduals are getting more hateful, angry, and messed up in the head. Its causing us to create artificial problems to be occupied with that take away from the real problems we should be dealing with.
I still see reminents of gamergate showing up in comments on my favorite gaming sites from time to time. That rhetoric... words like SJW and cuck. The damage is done. Too many of my fellow gamers have been infected. Its depressing. Hopefully everything gets sorted out for the next generation...
I wish the days of Nintendo Power, EGM, PSM, blockbusters, and arcades would return. I'd be a much happier gamer.
Revisit those dark days with the new 105-minute documentary on Sargon, MRAs, and GamerGate: YT search for "Munted, Random"
Idk how gaters can look at those 4chan screenshots and still manage to convince themselves that their "movement" was in any way genuine
Imagine judging an entire worldwide movement based on a few 4channers.
@@kingstarscream3807 Imagine not saying anything to refute what he said
@@NOTCOLEADA I refuted his point by pointing out his fallacious appeal to a minority of degenerates.
@@kingstarscream3807 the movement wouldn't have happened at all had the "minority of degenerates" not started it.
As pointed out elsewhere, this was not a legitimate movement that they latched onto. This was THEIR movement, and they still use you as a cover and a patsy.
This is my second viewing, and I feel like this event was a turning point in the internet community that contributed massively to the increasing open visibility and tolerance of the alt-right, and the assault on civil critical discourse.
I associated with the larger group of Angry Jacks via a female friend's Twitter reposts and discussions. I lost a different good friend of many years for that association, but he saw GG for what it was early on, and I have to give it to him for that, in hindsight.
It's a shittily regrettable moment in modern humanity, and while I personally stopped feeling guilty about my situation with it, the regret that it happened in the first place is still there.
+ZM Dumpbox ...I wouldn't say it was a turning point for how people felt about the alt right. Rather, it was a turning point for the extreme left. I'd say the polarization that occurred during the elections was the real turning point for the U.S., while the refugee crisis led to that sort of mindset becoming more popular in Europe.
Gay rights and a lot of other movements were finally being accepted, and many supported these causes. Special interest groups gained influence, and more and more people wanted to support good causes. Businesses saw this, and they attempted to profit off of it, promoting more controversial figures as sensationalism drew in more attention and profits. Bandwagoners often supported causes without fully understanding them, and an increasing number of regressive movements became more and more common.
The combination of progressive movements that upset close minded individuals and regressive movements that bandwagoners supported meant many people that normally wouldn't agree would be fighting for the same cause, and this relationship was further cemented by SOME people on the left labeling anyone who who disagreed with the podium they supported as racists, misogynists, or so forth, devaluing how horrible such things are as they haphazardly made such allegations.
As for the extreme left, GG is where the left accepted SJWs. In the past, while they right through around the term rather losely, the left also used the term as a slur to refer to people who worked towards causes in the wrong manner, fighting and picking enemies instead of reasoning with and creating allies. During GG, though, as Gawker was having its credibility called into question, they intentionally embraced SJWs as the chaos from them fighting with GGers would draw attention away from their business practices. Declaring the outcry as purely a hateful misogynistic movement meant feminists would join the fray, and in suit hateful misogynists would as well, as they always do when women rights are spoken of, whether or not its a good cause.
At the same time new media connections would be formed because of this ordeal...
Once again, almost every neg comment I'm reading is just further proving this guys point. Beautiful.
Tell him why he is wrong his bad now this is why the videos are wrongheaded just telling people to stay in their eco chambers and never believe any who different to you because their just angry jack
+Romulus Numa Again, you post a message proving his point.
Calm down, man.
I mean who is really presenting the one sided argument here? Conveniently skipping past all the evidence regarding Sarah Nyberg´s sexual proclivities for example, just dismissing it as a 4chan invention.
What the fuck is your profile picture? xD
Just like ur profile pic 😍
Re: Ian Miles Cheong, I'd say it's an oversimplification to imply the video calls him (or anyone really) a good guy as a person. It factually relates what he said and what the response was, indicating that in this instance he was doing a good thing and that the accusation of nazism was meant to discredit his defense of feminist voices in the same way as the accusations against the other figures brought up in the same section. While this does assume a motivation that can't be proved on the part of GG folks, it isn't necessarily saying anything more about Cheong than "he said this thing."
It's really just two stopped clocks being right at the same time.
So many people have no arguments whatsoever and keep getting triggered by the trigger warning, it's fucking hilarious.
Fantastic video! I needed a refresher on the ride that never ends.
I didnt realize until 17:27 that 'Jack' and 'Angry Jack' were merely a name given for the type of person susceptible to the apparent allure of the movement.
I thought the guy in the VW bug's name doubled as moniker for some other key player whose introduction I must have spaced out for. God damn.
I love this series so much and have reshared it with many people over the years. My only critique is that this episode doesn't quite explain gamergate was about for people without any point of reference. I've had to fill in a couple of gaps to several people.
But the rest is so great, i forgive that entirely
5:39 That's from Valkyria Chronicles. Please tell me the Gamergate people didn't attempt to ruin one of my all time favourite games.
The only one that had any association with GamerGate was Vivian James which was created by 4Chan for a game.
A lot of years (shit, I'm old) after the fact I wanted to express how immensly valuable these videos are. Firstly for my understanding of an international scene/online culture, when I first came into contact with it. It was hard to look into games back than on the english speaking floor and not get swept up in this whole gamer gate nonsense. Secondly for the table allegory for conspiracy theories, which is a absolutely perfect for a wide range of different topics and which I've now used in my master's thesis and probably going to use in my PHD writing as well as a jumping off point (and credited of course).
If you haven’t already, check out his series The Alt Right Playbook.
There are much better videos on Gamergate that are more accurate. Check out PSA Stitch's.
These videos are pretty scary, but I do appreciate the whole thing being broken down in a way that is helping me understand the mentality behind what happened - make sense of the chaos. Been a very interesting watch so far, thanks :)
I would like you to see Dishonest Jack | GamerGate by Netscape. unlike this video, it provides evidence to back it up, and shows how pathetically desperate this guy is.
It’s insane that these people have political power now
I was around 14 when all of this shit went down. I feel very fortunate that I only heard about this situation in passing when Angry Joe briefly talked about it in one of his top 10 controversies of the year videos back then.
Only have one issue with your vid. That is about the nature of GamerGate. GamerGate started as a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn. It was the same group who've been harassing women online for years. They rallied around that psycho Gjoni's "Zoe Post" and as early as August they planned their cover story of "Ethics in games journalism" on the 4chan boards. That was all done in public. We saw it while it was happening. The harassers expanded to include other targets, and eventually roped in some non-harassers as useful idiots. Shields to hide behind. But GamerGate was about misogynistic harassment from the beginning. That's why the public isn't fooled by their lies. News orgs like the Times, the Wall Street Journal, ABC, NBC, CBS, Al-Jazeera, the BBC, NYMag, The Gaurdian and other publications have thoroughly documented the abuse from that online hate mob. The only people who believe GamerGates fantasy version of events are GamerGaters. That's my only disagreement. Otherwise, good job, and thanks for the vids.
***** Yep, same guys who have been harassing Sarkeesian since the Kickstarter.
***** You have drank all the kool-aid. Where are the rest of us going to get any?
LIbra Noctis I hear GG has a fridge stocked full, you'll be fine.
B Rollins Christina Hoff Sommers has a fridge full of it in her based basement.
B Rollins optiuum 100 Thank you both for the support. Nice to see you here.
God, the part after 17:00 is depressing. In 2016 they called the old Angry Jack back, and a lot of other Angry Jacks from much older communities with deeper wells of resentment to tap for fuel.
How Ian Cheong became a Fascist is disheartening
That's because he never was a democrat.
@@GODCONVOYPRIME Democrats are just diet-fascists at the end of the day still. I’m talking about the party establishment though, not the base of course.
I'm sorry but gamergate after Colbert not only didn't die, but did not even slow down.
Besides you clearly seem to ignore everything about the constant infight in gamergate, or the harassment patrol.
And you talk like in time the people who are in about ethics walked off gamergate leaving the assholes inside but ... the people who left are people like King of Pol and Internet aristocrat.
Also .. Zoe Quinn has always be considered the Franz Ferdinand of GamerGate. Is not the cause of it, not even close. she is largely inconsequential (and besides... she is not even a journalist)
So really this video is quite off base.
ScarletGameShow I doubt any of this will change his mind. He seems dedicated to constructing this strawman, it tells him that he is right to oppose all of Gamergate and not just oppose harassers and trolls. To lose this narrative is to admit the damage he and many of the people he supports have caused.
ScarletGameShow "did not even slow down." Oh honey. I've been here since the beginning. Today I can use hashtag GamerGate and not get any replies. Back then? lol. You're dead, lie down. I said it back then and I'll say it again. GamerGate will never "die", its most militant members will still be there ranting but it will never be what it was in the beginning.
ScarletGameShow It's like the KKK (Note I'm not saying you *are* the KKK) but the KKK will always be there but they'll have no influence. Just some angry men yelling at the sky. That's GamerGate.
MyKeyMoonShine But why are you so angry, Jack?
Alibi McPersona Hahahaha! I am angry because people harass me and my friends for supporting ethical reforms and I get to hear all about how horrible we all are and how we deserve it because of a bunch of shit about us that isn't true. :)
That's if anyone believes us at all, or if they believe we even exist. Nope, we are all just "jack the convenient straw man" to you guys.
Why are you angry?
It just goes to show how the fragility inherent to some identities, like white, male, or straight, can so easily turn toxic and be used for much more sinister purposes
If one is defined by what one is not, to see oneself as good necessitates seeing the other as bad.
It's a good thing that those are the only identities that can have something like that happen to them. Can you imagine how hard it would be to call out other identities if this could happen to them.
To be fair, game journalism does have corruption issues, its just not women, but massive corporations wining and dining journalists and their bosses for praise via psychologically manipulative events and the power dynamic between journalists and gaming corporations. GamerGate focused on none of these things.
Man, when did videogames become such a bid deal? I play games for fun, not to discuss or write articles about them. Anyway, I seen these videos and read some of the criticism from a feminist point of view and I think they are valid. It's an industry that was primarily appealing to boys, that's evident. And I appreciate female protagonists with great storylines and great charisma. They don't need breasts with the size of my head. Whatever, I wrote to much and I don't pay attention to these "angry gamers"
"Man, when did videogames become such a bid deal? I play games for fun, not to discuss or write articles about them. Anyway, I seen these videos and read some of the criticism from a feminist point of view and I think they are valid. It's an industry that was primarily appealing to boys, that's evident. And I appreciate female protagonists with great storylines and great charisma. They don't need breasts with the size of my head. Whatever, I wrote to much and I don't pay attention to these "angry gamers""
What is some of the, in your opinion, valid criticisms from a feminist point of view? Because I haven't yet seen one...
in the same way that people analyse and write articles about film, tv, book, music and any other form of art. you can enjoy them all you want, but some people find dissecting them and figuring out how they work, and how they can be better to be interesting. like how video essays about games have become so much more popular
@@_ikako_ It's like someone raging at Ebert for reviewing movies, like dudes you can watch the movie without listening to Ebert. Thing is gamergate was never about the reviews, or critiquing games as art, it was just a right-wing microcosm that created a cottage industry of perpetually angry man children whining about "woke shit" whatever the fuck that is?
The 1980s, during the satanic panics.
8:00 congratulations, you just summed up the "Trans Debate" in a nine-year-old video
I like how unsublet he is to have the negative point right-ward.
Jep, making the very existence of a group of people or their rights to life-saving medicine something to be discussed can be perfectly described as that.
Can it? @davidpacifico1019
Like I feel like there is more to it than just that. I also feel like the Jack caricature is just Ian/IS projecting his bias onto the right-wing. He is the one who wants to feel like he is in the right while knowing those whom side with him are monsters. It happens when you do not realize that evil people infiltrate both sides of a conflict.
"Jack was ALWAYS part of the plan"
Well he is a big guy.
For you
It's true, I'd never even thought about all the POC women (and their POC male allies) who were also harassed by GamerGate-the news always made it about Sarkeesian, Quinn, and sometimes Wu. And I honestly really like what I've read of Mattie Brice's work! It was sobering to realize to someone who I liked reading also suffered during this, and I had no idea. Here's to being aware of POC marginalization in the future, even when the media is not (though, certainly, we must hope that it never happens again!). Thanks for making this.
Here's a fun fact for you from someone back then.
There were more POC on Gamergate side and allies to them than the opposition.
This video is lying on so many layers it's not even a cube anymore, it's a thesis of lies..
EDIT: it's come to my attention that Quinn goes by they/them pronouns, so they don't exactly fit in the binary range of "men and women harassed by Gamergate" I had set up in my previous comment! Regardless, my point stands, and neither Quinn, POC and marginalized creators, or their fellow allies deserve harassment. Donate to The Okra Project: www.theokraproject.com/
This video is excellent.
I found myself falling into Gamergate when it originally gained steam. I was legitimately upset about the sex for good review narrative. But I never fact checked it myself, I just took it at it's word. I also remember around that time seeing in rapid succession over a several week period numerous gaming websites (Kotaku, Polygon, etc) all denounce male gamers and say they're so appalling which I feel really nudged me into that group. I didn't stay long though, there was so much toxicity. Sad to say former MRA as well which in hindsight is likely how I got all those bad articles so quickly. Yet another place that was too toxic and never stayed on the points that drew me in. Looking back I am so ashamed of being associated with either of those even if I didn't participate in the toxic aspects. I was still supporting it with upvotes and confirmation bias. I even didn't watch this video series because of Anita being featured. Yet another example of my ignorance as I never even saw her videos from an objective standpoint, only snippets from those who hated her.
Revisit those dark days with the new 105-minute documentary on Sargon, MRAs, and GamerGate: YT search for "Munted, Random"
I remember uncritically sharing garbage about Sarkeesian back then without thinking about it.
Those were in my questionable days.
My "I'm am egalitarian not a feminist" days.
@@DanielForrester In the last couple of years, have you taken the next step in your personal journey and recognized that just because you were an ignorant piece of shit uncritically paroting things you knew nothing about does not mean that the opposite of what you were saying at the time must have been the absolute truth?
Excellent series so far; subscribed and liked!
Wow, this is a great analysis. I love the graphics.
Fantastic Video!
I do wonder how self aware many of these hateful people are. I found a recent example of hatemob mentality and not wanting discussion:
When somebody made fake Anita Sarkeesian tweets celebrating a recent tradegy, She could've either ignored it or called it out (which she did).
When she did call it out, angry comments said that she made it ALL ABOUT HER! But if she'd ignore it, then people would certainly spread this. Making her silence the proof of guilt.
Johan Malmgren they would have reacted badly no matter what. Look up Xenatos Gambit. It's a technique where you contrive a situation where you always win (at least from your own perspective).
Johan Malmgren damned if you do, damned if you dont
6:59 whew, this moment aged poorly.
Oof with that Ian Miles Cheong part. Fucker was a fucker all along
I'm super late to the party here but it's really incredible how much gamergate has shaped the modern right's technique and talking points
I wonder what's your thoughts on the fact that the fbi recently closed their gamergate case on Anita and wu and Quinn because they couldn't find any evidence that gamergate sent them threats or that they are a harassment campaign
Given that most internet harassment victims have to explain to law enforcement what Twitter is and the response is often "why not just stop going on the internet?" don't put too much weight in the failure of the FBI to effectively prosecute internet crimes. They are lagging far behind modern technology.
Or you know just block the trolls and ignore them
Like I do
I get called a ponyfag all the time and I can cry about it and ask people to donate to my patreaon or just ignore and block them
hay are you gonna actually provide any evidence, I just watched a video by Netscape debunking this enter video, and he was actually able to provide evidence. unlike whatever agenda you were trying to push here.
Innuendo Studios Also I think all law enforcement knows what social media is
They aren't middle age men in their 60's who complain that candy cost 60 cents
Getting called "ponyfag" on occassion is completely different than being Doxxed and having your personal details leaked, having swat teams break into your house, or being sent ongoing and specific death or rape threats by the thousands on all facets of your media outlets. Anita Sarkeesian and other feminists have far too many trolls to simply block all of them.
The Gators have officially arrived! Everyone give 'em a big hand!
Ok dude, are you in need of funds for your Patreon? Is that why you're spreading lies?
CloudedByAgony MrMySoggyKnees Samuel Noa Greén I'm paying him secretly. I am the leader of Anti-GameGate.
CloudedByAgony MrMySoggyKnees Wow! Such an original argument. The brainpower displayed here is MINDBLOWING. GamerGate bingo anyone?
Samuel Noa Greén Well, you see, it's a Gish Gallop. He machine guns out so many unattributed "facts" and assertions while injecting half-truths periodically. Then after all of his slander where he states people who disagree with the merits of the work of people like Anita do so either because they don't listen or are misogynist he says that you're a schmuck for attempting to reply to it. He makes charges against the character of people that taints any reply they make. If I start a debate with you by calling you an anti-semite, or a woman hater, or a rapist, you've suddenly got a steep hill to climb before you can say a single intellectually honest thing with any credibility. Combining slander into a Gish gallop makes the task of defending your character monumental before you can even get to any of the points.
Proof of lies is an interesting tack to look at this with as well. As the arguer, it is on him to provide adequate proof which he fails to do. For example, his whole Gamergate started on pol and pol is a Neo-nazi group therefore gamergate is a nazi group is so many logical fallacies piled on each other. In the link he uses to show the white supremacy angle, it shows one self aggrandizing e-celeb go nuts and the participants in gamergate voice disgust and opposition to his holocaust denial statements. Where does that actually show the people within this movement endorsing those ideas in any way? As an example, Anita Sarkeesian once said:
“The US bombed them back to traditional values - feminism does not exist in Japan. While I don’t like judging an entire culture…that does not excuse them.”
I'm assuming that very few people would agree with her statement as aside from being extremely insensitive to the deaths of 900 000 civilians in firebombing raids and atomic fallout it's completely inaccurate; Japan underwent a rapid cultural westernization after WW2. Now, does this mean that everyone in anti-gg (which again, despite assertions is a specific and identifiable group of typically financially comfortable white people) believes in what she just said? I like to think her brand of lunacy is limited to her and MacIntosh and wouldn't attribute it to anyone else. He is however very comfortable in portraying the ideas of kingofpol as happily adopted by the masses of GG. But that's just one of his points, the frequency with which he spouts off his brand of nonsense makes the task of undoing it monumental. The only way to really undo his mess to anyone who managed to swallow it is to start all over with shapes and colours and work our way up to logic and proper attribution.
A very heavy confirmation bias is required to watch this video and go "yeah, that makes complete sense".
Banokuy I didn't read any links in your response to someone asking for proof.
Banokuy He never said that everyone who disagrees with Anita is a misogynist. He's referring specifically to one particular mind of person: Angry Jack. Jack's not necessarily even misogynistic in the traditional sense so much as someone who takes feminist critique personally due to the nagging feeling that he's being judged. In fact I don't recall Jack ever being called "misogynist" at all in the video.
The argument is that GamerGate's origins in /pol/ and /rk9/ and the harassment that came from it mean that the others who participate in it are aiding the harassers in their original goals, not that they themselves are harassers or that their seperate goal of improving ethics doesn't exist. I understand that this is hurtful to people who legitimately believe they're in it for the ethics but I don't see how it's wrong.
this kind of works for the alt-right as well...
you guys forming shallow conclusions have no idea of what gamergate or alt right are.
I couldn't stop thinking the same thing Carla.
***** Isn't that what your party does? Like "everyone I disagree with is a racist, sexist, homophobic bigot!" ?
As well as anti-gg'ers claiming anyone who disagrees with the feminist agenda is a sexist intolerant alt righter.
These are the same dumbasses who actually think Russia hacked the election.
*****
Do you believe Feminism is needed in the western society?
Ian Miles Cheong.... Certainly hasn't aged well.
Whenever I hear the term "fake news", I have flashbacks of GG.
There has been a pervading skepticism of the media for decades. To be a journalist is to have a sacred duty: report current events to the general public accurately and neutrally. In America at least, journalist are viewed like insurance agents and used car salesmen. A lot of people think that journos have sold out, compromising on principle to make an extra buck. This claim isn't completely unsubstantiated and has been around for generations (give "Dirty Laundry" by Don Henley, written in '82, a listen). Donald Trump deftly played that card, turning it into a shield against both good and bad criticism. All he has to do to deflect arguments made by the MSM is invoke that skepticism.
GG worked off the same principle: gamers have been suspicious of big gaming new outlets for a myriad of reasons, for a long time. Why do the games of big, wealthy publishers seem to get a special leniency when their games are reviewed? Why do gaming journos not talk about shitty DLC practices? Why is it that professional reviews are usually significantly more positive than community reviews. It was assumed that money was changing hands, but there was never proof. The Quinn story broke and they finally had their evidence. It wasn't good evidence (read: wasn't evidence at all), but they weren't going to let go. The idea that gaming journalism is corrupt was so "obviously" true, it didn't matter how bad the supporting claim was.
From what I saw, this was the majority position of GG. Yes, the center of GG was that cesspit /pol/. Yes, more than just the fringe engaged in and condoned through omission some especially heinous harassment. However, I don't think it's fair that you paint all the "Jacks" with the same brush. I think saying that most GGers were insecure about their idea of "what a gamer is" being challenged is gaslighting. A lot of people, myself included, had those suspicions about the industry and snapped up the "five guys" story uncritically; it's the sort of thing that happens when you stick to preconceived notions. Luckily I took a second look and saw behind the curtain. I didn't want women excluded from gaming, quite the contrary. Pardon me if I seem offended at the claim.
To be honest there was two small factions and one large faction. Anti gamer gate and gamer gate is the small groups. The large one being everyone else who didn't even care either way.
This series is incredible. Thank you.