What's It Like To Be A Neuroscientist With Aphantasia? With Mac Shine
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- Опубліковано 23 жов 2024
- Mac Shine is a neuroscientist at the University of Sydney who is interested in how the coordinated activity amongst neurons in the brain gives rise to cognition, attention, and perception. He also happens to have aphantasia.
In this engaging presentation, Mac challenges conventional wisdom by arguing that perception is an active, not passive, process. He likens it to “touching the world with your eyes” and explores how this neural network can be “driven in reverse” to fuel imagination or even hallucinations.
Aphantasia, he suggests, may be an inability to engage this reverse gear, affecting not just visualization but also the way we process information. The talk draws intriguing parallels between the cognitive functions of individuals with aphantasia and the computational abilities of large language models like ChatGPT-4.
If you’re curious about the neuroscience of imagination or how aphantasia could offer a fresh perspective on consciousness and information processing, this talk is a must-watch. Mac raises thought-provoking questions and offers promising avenues for future research.
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Great discussion. I am 77. I have no biographical memory. Can't recall smell, taste, sight, etc. At about 6 I knew I couldn't see when I closed my eyes. Nonetheless, I excelled at most things I tried. I was lucky, I'm an Artist, 2d, 3d, Music, writing, engineering, process design, I Love all sciences. My interest in the art's is more about expressing abstract concepts and relationships. When I create art I enter a dreamlike state constantly discussing what I'm creating with myself. When I come out I can remember nothing except ideas. My interest in music started when I was young. Taught myself guitar, harmonica and keyboards I excelled at improvisation, I disliked consciously having to remember. I don't have to think when improvising. In the sciences I was president of the algebra club. Loved understanding the new concepts but didn't like doing the math, too many details to remember. I was an extrovert in my physical life. I tried everything physical for the excitement. Experiencing life only happens once, for an aphant I guess. .I loved scuba diving, mtn. climbing, cave exploration. motocross, etc. Is this behavior typical for a shy aphant?
I'm typically same Kindle of man , very funny to reed this script ( sorry for my english, i'm french 😊
As another shy Aphant at 87 I dance frequently to EDM which is an exercise for extroverts. I resonated with nearly all of his story, except to a lesser degree.
I am locked in the ‘here and now’, which, l am told is something to strive for. I’m not burdened by any baggage.
It sounds like you went down a path I've fallen short of, though I grok that I had the same desires and motivations, but I just couldn't find the courage. I didn't understand what was wrong or how to connect to others - and, oh, I so very much wanted to connect to others! I feared and stood still attempting a deep internal press. I now have a basis of understanding, but to do ..I cannot find it well.
Thank you for sharing. It's encouraging to hear some of my struggles expressed by someone else, and to hear about your success pleases me a lot!
I’m 87. I was vaguely aware of it 50 years ago when doing a Mind Dynamics course, central to which was the ability to visualize.
Obviously I got little out of it. For the same period I have been driving the 5ks or so up our valley. I can just about tell you what is around the next corner. Neither can I give directions nor take them. I take the wrong exits on roundabouts. I have a reasonable creative streak and love language. Self diagnosed with SDAM. Can’t read novels.The characters are unreachable.
I don’t carry sorrow or trauma. Have difficulty with names and faces. Don’t know the lyrics of any song but remember phrases and sometimes the next line in a song. But love music. Grasping essences. Love one liners and ideas for T shirts. All in all I think
Aphantasia may be a gift rather than a disadvantage.🌹j.
Why would aphantasia hinder you to remember lyrics?
@@satioOeinas Perhaps focussing on the emotion and the music. For well known songs I can often know the next line. Novels and fiction are of little interest as I said, the characters don’t come alive. It’s fascinating to observe one’s own mind and all its limitations. Aphantasia and SDAM don’t need specialists to diagnose them. Once described, one recognises oneself immediately.🌹j.
I am 76 and just realized i have aphantasia. It was a shock because I always thought the phrase “visualize” was a metaphor. I had NO idea people could actually see the images. I am blind to all the senses and in addition I am stereoblind which means I do not see in 3D. But with all that I am highly creative and have won art and photography awards. I have a constant and strong inner dialogue and my personality type is INFP. These interviews are fascinating and I will continue to discover how I operate without visualization.
I’m an aphant female, early 40s. I am an INTP in Myers Briggs (which is a good enough mobilisation of Carl Jungs personality type theory). I find that there is a preponderance of INTPs who are mind blind and I can’t help but wonder the cross over. I’m very much a systems thinker, as the speaker explains his own way of thinking in the beginning of this video. I have an idiosyncratic way of systematising my areas of study and interest, seeking first principles as much as possible. I am a voracious talker on my subjects of interest and much prefer the externalising and back and forth that comes with open discourse rather than just internalising my own thoughts and ideas.
When I’m asked a question, I seem to have this automatic perhaps unconscious function which tells me how well I’ll be able to answer the question and expand upon it sufficiently within my own standards. After speaking, I’m able to state how well I succeeded, mainly it’s just as I expected, sometimes it’s a bit better and rarely it’s not as well as I predicted. I automatically assess prior to answering whether I’m primed to answer to the level I expect of myself and so will most often pick up when I’m not in flow,so to speak. So will state to my interlocutor before I begin that I’m unlikely to answer as clearly and thoroughly as I’d like.
I should make clear that I have no self judgment or criticism… no discernible ego response to not succeeding at the level I expected. It’s just a passing point I’ll make. My driving motivation is clarity of communication and honest synthesis of ideas.
Discourse goes extremely well and better than I predict when my interlocutor provides novel informational nodes that I juxtapose with mine, on the fly. On the fly is the best mode for me.
Just spitting some things out here about my experience in case it’s of use. But suffice to say, I adore systems and my most common terms in discussion will be things like frame and base. My particular interest in systems focuses on the interpersonal, personal psychology and groups. Likely owing to the fact that I’m female, I don’t use my brain for more STEM topics and interests.
This is not synchronicity I guess. Yesterday I was reading Jung and discovered in a podcast of David Eagleman that I am in the aphantasia world. I knew I was in the pareidolia world 2 years ago. We are each of us in our own universe. As Jung said "Show me a sane man I will cure him for you" .
Mac, great presentation and very insightful, thanks!
I became aware of my aphantasia condition while listening to a guided meditation wherein I was supposed to visualise being present in a beautiful garden. I am unable to visualise anything, always a black mental screen. Thanks for the video
That's a great session. Personally, I see the Mind's eye as a display function where its work is to display all the information it has from different areas. As we know both perception and visual imagery have similar mechanisms in the visual system. Specifically, neural representations of mental and perceptual images are similar in the primary visual cortex. We can say if there is a problem with the display function of the brain (visual cortex) it should also affect the perception as it does in people with CVI (blind and aphantastics) which could further mean that people with aphantasia might be having a healthy display system but lacking in the carrier information or the source. Also, as I think of why aphantastics can't imagine but are still able to access all the information is because the problem is just maybe in encoding sufficient information to support the display unit. Ofc, It is just a theory for now!
Im 68 and only recently discovered I have aphantasia or rather should I say that others can still visualize images. I have many a time tried looking at something then close my eyes and tried to visualize it without success not knowing it was common amongst Neuro typical. One time I actually did manage to see a clear image and it scared the hell out of me fearing that what would happen if I had to continuously see images not able to shut it down. I actually feel sorry for the 98 percent that still do. I've been working on a theory of consciousness and how the brain operates with great success and are currently working on a book Dimensions of Reality which will literally change our understanding forever. Aphantasia is a gift with a far superior way of processing information rather than merely having the ability of accumulating and regurgitating information. I wouldn't change my mindset for anything in the world.
I'm also the author of a book "The Theory of Consciousness" pu blis hed 2017 but far outdated as my theory has since come full circle.
“Love looks not with the eyes, but with the mind, And therefore is winged Cupid painted blind” is a quote in William Shakespeare’s A Midsummer Night’s Dream.
“This life's dim windows of the soul
Distorts the heavens from pole to pole
And leads you to believe a lie
When you see with, not through, the eye.”
― William Blake
I would like to see the comparative data regarding the incidence of hallucinations over the range of aphantasia to hyperphantasia. My guess is that hallucinations are much less likely to happen in the aphantasia cohort.
Thanks for the video. Are the brains of people who think they have always had aphantasia wired the same as the brains of people who develop aphantasia later in life. Have you done comparison brain scans.
5 sensory Aphant, AuDHD
I was just recently musing that my aphantasia made me immune or at least less vulnerable to hallucinations.
As a video technician, I likened it to everyone having two video outputs -- eyes and imagination -- but as an aphant, I only have 1 video input rather than 2. So if I shut off the Realism input -- sleep -- I can now visually dream, but it is pretty restricted to what I would expect to see in life. So maybe then I am unable to ingage or be primed to overlay the fantastical... like purple skies, flying unicorns with rainbow trails, and other whimsical depictions of dreams. Like now the Hyperphantastic has a 3rd video out and can now engage the hyper imagination with regular imagination when the Realism Input is turned off -- sleeping.
I like the analogy of the video output, it's an interesting simile. I'm not diagnosed autistic, I do score highly on the RAADS and AQ tests but see no real benefit getting tested for it now. I also have prosopagnosia and a deficient autobiographical memory. Dreams have always fascinated me though, I've had what most would consider disturbing nightmares for much of my life but they don't effect me emotionally and are honestly entertaining. They have been "fantastical"; mermaids, demons, flying, etc. They're more vivid and colorful than "real life" most times and I can see, hear, touch and read in them but not taste or smell. The only sense that isn't aphantasic for me in waking life is auditory (occasionally touch, I have a few strong aversions); I did have auditory hallucinations in my teens for a short time. So that may align with your thought of being less prone to hallucinations for all senses if you're aphantasic in all. I realize this is just one subjective experience being offered. It's been a 20 year journey so far, trying to make some sense of exactly what is "wrong" with my mind.
Watching movies can become very confusing at times as i often need to wind back to try and differentiate the caracters from one another not able to see who was who, if it was the same person or someone else. Remembering most events of my life is almost none existent unless it was a very novice experience hence experience. I couldnt remember the names of most in my class even after year a year in the same class. However, when it comes to logic, figuring things out and repairing literally anything i will challenge anyone in this world.
Hi, teacher.
I know that I cannot create mental images clearly.
Which one is the correct way of visualization?
I would like to solely focus on the correct one that you use.
1. We create a mental TV screen on the wall right in front of us and then see the pictures running there? Is it the correct one?
2. We just directly form a mental image running in the brain. Is it the correct one?
For example,
I want to see Messi, Ronaldo and I play for the same team together? Should I create a mental TV screen in my room right in front of me and then see us playing on that TV? Or I just form a mental video without create a mental TV?
For me both ways, the images and videos are not clear and easily to forget the picture or video I picture?
So, which one is the right one? I want to direct my attention and focus on your suggestion.
Any help is extremely and whole-heartedly appreciated
What proportion of aphantasics experience SDAM, and what proportion of those with SDAM have aphantasia?
Is there any scientific evidence that people with aphantasia are more prone to prosopamnesia (not prosopagnosia) than people who can visualise?
Is there evidence that people with aphantasia suffer disproportionately from ADHD?
I am somewhere right in the middle.
The sweet spot I imagine.
Too bad I'm a loser.
Thank you.
Good day
It's supposed to be so rare, but myself, my husband, and 3 boys have it! I never knew it was a thing until a few months ago. Now I feel cheated.
It is interesting to consider a genetic link. I have it but my three sisters and dad are visualisers. Not sure about what mum was.
I worry that your science is going to eventually flatten our minds out and separate them into a number of dead abstractions so they can fit into one of your genius’s models.