For the pilot missiles and remote turret missiles, you had weapons on the polaris turned off, would that have effected them firing regardless of being shot?
Sub-target cycling works in live; you don't even need to scan the ship beforehand or use precision mode. If you cycle through a moving ship's parts, you can clearly see the pip changing. Also, the ship holograph in the top right shows some barely visible red highlights of the parts you are targeting.
is there a set order that the sub targets will cycle through? engine's => turrets=> powerplant=> etc.? skipping components as some ships don't have turrets?
It is barely usable, especially when you cycle over parts located on the opposite side of the ship. I wonder why CIG even spend resources to implement this. Some people spend hours and was paid for it.
My experience is that sub-targeting in precise mode works. You just keep using "R" to toggle sub-targets as you move and watch the PIP position change. Off topic, I don’t know if it’s a bug. When the system first came out, there was actually a very obvious red lock frame when the secondary aim locked the target. I wonder if it is a newly launched MFD? Or radar? No matter what, it has become what it is now.
11:10 "all the PDC and turrets can be destroyed" - now you could setup a fight 2.0 between Polarises with all these conciderations in mind. Partially ballistic setup, shooting off opponents turrets e.t.c.
The guns may be easy to shoot off, but in an actual battle scenario, I would imagine it to be pretty hard. Between the shields being up (maybe ballistics can help there) and having to keep moving in order not to be taking return fire, aiming at those tiny little guns will be a big challenge. Them being as fragile as they seem to be already seems fair.
i tried it today VS the slicer idris, both its engines were shot off, but with its thrusters it still moved, twisted, enough to make targeting the pDCs difficult. and thats assuming you got passed the shields.
I've heard "sub-target" so many times in this video it has lost all meaning lol. Thank you for the time you put into testing this, it was fascinating. I'm certain that the component TTK or health is still to be adjusted at some point in the future, though. One thing I'm going to be very interested in much further down the road is how ballistic penetration sub targeting will work in the future -- will there be enough fidelity to allow for pin-point removal of something like the quantum drive of a ship? Could make for a very cool niche for slow rate of fire mass driver cannons.
CIG will have to change entire PiP paradigme to realise this component targetng. One thing is to predict impact point between 900ms projectile and 120m HH strafing wtih 150ms at 1km distance. Completely different point is to predict the same for HH's 2m in size quantum drive strafing wtih same 150ms speed. In current PiP model to effectively target that 2m quantum drive you have to be at 30m distance to HH which is certain death.
The hard part is just getting close and still enough to target an individual gun in a "Fully operational battle station" (or ship, in this case) 🙂. Also, it seems like the shield is down? If that is the case, then only a ballistic weapon can get through without the shields being down...I would think. As you found out, getting close can get deadly very quick!
What does PDC even mean in Star Citizen lingo? The Point Defense System the US navy uses is referred to as CWIS (close-in weapon system). But it's cool how the Polaris will auto engage hostile targets when they get too close to her.
The PDC looks terrifying holy shit lol, also try a run with full ballistics loadout both cannon and repeaters while the shields are up, would be nice if its viable to go small fighters and focus on destorying pdc so your allied torpedo bombers will have an easier time taking it out.
4:14 This is why players who complain about Polaris Bespoke guns have no idea what are they talking about. Bespoke is long range high speed low spread ballistic cannon, which allows Polaris S6 turret to shoot off enemy's fully shielded capship guns with advantage in range and precision.
This is already in live to my knowledge unless something has changed. Also, I don't believe a buff is needed because in a real scenario it would be extremely difficult to first bring down its shields, then focus on turret weapons while moving and getting shot at. But I appreciate the testing regardless.
you have to scan a target before you can sub target. Also as far as I know you cant sub target when in ADS mode, as ADS is manual aim. If you want to sub target you need to scan -> target -> press R in regular mode.
I honestly think if this ship gets pdc's most others should as well medium up should just have either dedicated pdcs or a mode to run remote turrets as pdcs
Maybe the shields will also protect the guns a lot so a good reason to bring shields down (and something to test?) Ah you just mentioned the shields as I wrote this ;)
Yesterday during the new 3th phase I was fighting the Idris in my Inferno and noticed that it focused me with plenty of lasers and near instantly downed my shield. I wonder if the CIWS on them is supposed to be this strong without turrets also firing. I feel like they are a bit too much maybe.
I assume all these turrets that you're killing in a second are protected by the shields when they're up? Are you able to fly "under" the shields and kill them like this? If so capital ships are still going to be dominated by fighters
4:40 "They really need to buff guns health" - not really. This is standing still unshielded unmanned Polaris with disabled PDC and you have to be at 500m distance to effectively target those turrets. If it was fully crewed shielded Polaris with enabled PDC - your TTK at this distance would be 1-2sec, you'd have to use ballisitc setup on Hornet with lower effective DPS and aim actively maneuvering ship.
I tried a basic mission, and it took a while until they finally started shooting the hostiles, i think when they shot a missile at me, it woke up the PDCs
what about the cockpit? What happens to Skywalker if you blow away the cockpit? And you're missing an important point: Stealth + Ballistics -> PDC = Size 5 Torpedo hitting.
With 2 million shields HP, I don’t think that the turrets HP need to be buffed. I’ve seen that the distortion guns are very lethal now after shields have gone down. I wonder what effect these would have on the Polaris?
So, does this mean that a stealthy ship with a mass driver cannon build could basically snipe a Polaris defenses from a distance? Entire new ship role!
PDCs from bigger ships should definitely outrange fighter weapons. Also i hope they create different designs for them, as they look completely out of place. also different ships should have different levels of PDC weapons. Weapon range should stack with ship size, for example. s1 laser on a fighter 3km range. s1 laser on a corvet 3.2km range. s1 laser on a destroyer 3.4km. This things need alot of work anyway, but i have the feeling after all the critique the last weeks, that they wanna get something like blades out as fast as they can, as the Perseus will have the s3 turrets automated as described.
>s1 laser on a fighter 3km range Even at 1km distance DPS reduction due to spread (0.5 for NDB repeaters) on target size of Hornet right now is near 80%. This is when firing at staying still AFK target. Being fired by S1 laser at 3 km I personally wouldn't even bother to maneuver )) You could see HIT indicator flashing but actual damage probably will be somewhere below 1% of nominal DPS
@@Thor_Asgard_ Spread is not a problem, it is intended feature. It was designed this way and set to keep fight in certain distance. What I'm trying to say - you discuss matters where you have no expertise ))
2:20 "we can't subtarget in normal mode" - actually you can, it really locks on different parts. Just subtargeting UI sucks and it is hard to see which part exactly is targeted. But they are actually highlighted on the target hologram, just very tiny. Completely unusable, very CIG style.
you are forgetting all the shielding around the gun you would have had to shoot through to get to the gun in the first place, gun health dose not need to be that high.
that's actually really good question bc now when you say it that doesn't sound impossible. bc it feel like sometimes my character handle G's worse than other time. but yeah i commented so i get notice if someone answer 😅
Whaaaat PDC now shots ships not just torps/missiles thats unexpected ..... teir zero AI Blades lol maybe missiles not firing are due to weapons being turned off
It is very practical when you have two Polarises fighting. Especially in the first seconds when Bespoke cannon is stil alive. It has high alpha, low spread, long range, high speed ballistic projectile penetrating shields. So basically who first knocks out opponent's turrets with ballistics - wins.
Unmanned Polaris, no shields and weapons turned off. How often do you expect to come across this scenario? Your "test" is pointless. Try that on a fully crewed Polaris, post that video, and we'll see how that works out for ya.
Do you know how to read the title, this video is intended only to test which part can be sub-targeted, if so can it be destroyed. And as for a fully crewed Polaris testing for weapons, that is already in the work, you will get exactly that video.
![Stealth Test & Comparison: Hornet Ghost Mk I vs. Ghost Mk II | Star Citizen Science & Fun [4k]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rAWI2I6F-do/mqdefault.jpg)
![Stealth Test & Comparison: Hornet Ghost Mk I vs. Ghost Mk II | Star Citizen Science & Fun [4k]](/img/tr.png)
![A Stealthy Vulture - Salvage Undetected | Unofficial Stealth Ships Part.2 | SC Stealth Guide [4k]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AuRmjUWjCuM/mqdefault.jpg)
For the pilot missiles and remote turret missiles, you had weapons on the polaris turned off, would that have effected them firing regardless of being shot?
Great question, as far as I tested, turn off weapon doesn't affect missile firing. So the missiles in this video are indeed disabled by damage
Sub-target cycling works in live; you don't even need to scan the ship beforehand or use precision mode. If you cycle through a moving ship's parts, you can clearly see the pip changing. Also, the ship holograph in the top right shows some barely visible red highlights of the parts you are targeting.
This is true, however I haven't gotten it to work without having to scan the ship beforehand in the latest patches.
is there a set order that the sub targets will cycle through? engine's => turrets=> powerplant=> etc.? skipping components as some ships don't have turrets?
It is barely usable, especially when you cycle over parts located on the opposite side of the ship. I wonder why CIG even spend resources to implement this. Some people spend hours and was paid for it.
Can an Avenger Warlock or other ship with an EMP to knock the PDC's out long enough to get a few torps past??
ooh people has nice ideas today 😎👍 hope he see this comment bc i bet he want to know too....
Next can we see if ballistic weapons can destroy the PDCs through shields?
Always useful and entertaining. Thanks
What.. You left us on a cliff hanger! Lol ;)
My experience is that sub-targeting in precise mode works. You just keep using "R" to toggle sub-targets as you move and watch the PIP position change. Off topic, I don’t know if it’s a bug. When the system first came out, there was actually a very obvious red lock frame when the secondary aim locked the target. I wonder if it is a newly launched MFD? Or radar? No matter what, it has become what it is now.
11:10 "all the PDC and turrets can be destroyed" - now you could setup a fight 2.0 between Polarises with all these conciderations in mind. Partially ballistic setup, shooting off opponents turrets e.t.c.
The guns may be easy to shoot off, but in an actual battle scenario, I would imagine it to be pretty hard. Between the shields being up (maybe ballistics can help there) and having to keep moving in order not to be taking return fire, aiming at those tiny little guns will be a big challenge. Them being as fragile as they seem to be already seems fair.
i tried it today VS the slicer idris, both its engines were shot off, but with its thrusters it still moved, twisted, enough to make targeting the pDCs difficult. and thats assuming you got passed the shields.
I've heard "sub-target" so many times in this video it has lost all meaning lol. Thank you for the time you put into testing this, it was fascinating. I'm certain that the component TTK or health is still to be adjusted at some point in the future, though. One thing I'm going to be very interested in much further down the road is how ballistic penetration sub targeting will work in the future -- will there be enough fidelity to allow for pin-point removal of something like the quantum drive of a ship? Could make for a very cool niche for slow rate of fire mass driver cannons.
CIG will have to change entire PiP paradigme to realise this component targetng. One thing is to predict impact point between 900ms projectile and 120m HH strafing wtih 150ms at 1km distance. Completely different point is to predict the same for HH's 2m in size quantum drive strafing wtih same 150ms speed. In current PiP model to effectively target that 2m quantum drive you have to be at 30m distance to HH which is certain death.
It's so cool that the PDC's fire on enemies ships now. Maybe I can sort of solo the ship now in some PVE content, lol.
The hard part is just getting close and still enough to target an individual gun in a "Fully operational battle station" (or ship, in this case) 🙂. Also, it seems like the shield is down? If that is the case, then only a ballistic weapon can get through without the shields being down...I would think. As you found out, getting close can get deadly very quick!
What does PDC even mean in Star Citizen lingo?
The Point Defense System the US navy uses is referred to as CWIS (close-in weapon system).
But it's cool how the Polaris will auto engage hostile targets when they get too close to her.
The PDC looks terrifying holy shit lol, also try a run with full ballistics loadout both cannon and repeaters while the shields are up, would be nice if its viable to go small fighters and focus on destorying pdc so your allied torpedo bombers will have an easier time taking it out.
Watching this video retrospect from the arena commander play with you all and yeah shield management to protect the guns.
Subtargeting works outside of precision mode. You just cycle through it with R, getting highlighted components in target status
In true combat basicly we have to use ballistics to disable the PDCs and turrets as shields will be on.
4:14 This is why players who complain about Polaris Bespoke guns have no idea what are they talking about. Bespoke is long range high speed low spread ballistic cannon, which allows Polaris S6 turret to shoot off enemy's fully shielded capship guns with advantage in range and precision.
This is already in live to my knowledge unless something has changed. Also, I don't believe a buff is needed because in a real scenario it would be extremely difficult to first bring down its shields, then focus on turret weapons while moving and getting shot at. But I appreciate the testing regardless.
curious on ballistics effects on PDC while shields are up, it would be difficult to knock out those shields without taking out those PDC's first
you have to scan a target before you can sub target. Also as far as I know you cant sub target when in ADS mode, as ADS is manual aim.
If you want to sub target you need to scan -> target -> press R in regular mode.
sub targeting worked for me in the PU on a freelancer
Thats a really awesome looking location, was that arena commander or somewhere in the PU?
I honestly think if this ship gets pdc's most others should as well medium up should just have either dedicated pdcs or a mode to run remote turrets as pdcs
Maybe the shields will also protect the guns a lot so a good reason to bring shields down (and something to test?)
Ah you just mentioned the shields as I wrote this ;)
Yesterday during the new 3th phase I was fighting the Idris in my Inferno and noticed that it focused me with plenty of lasers and near instantly downed my shield. I wonder if the CIWS on them is supposed to be this strong without turrets also firing. I feel like they are a bit too much maybe.
Maybe a scattergun or other kinds of guns (ballistic shotguns) would go through shields and take out pdcs..
It would be nice if they allowed you to view the component and weapon health in the MFDs like the previous MFDs.
I assume all these turrets that you're killing in a second are protected by the shields when they're up? Are you able to fly "under" the shields and kill them like this? If so capital ships are still going to be dominated by fighters
With the current flight model from fighters would dominate it even without that issue
4:40 "They really need to buff guns health" - not really. This is standing still unshielded unmanned Polaris with disabled PDC and you have to be at 500m distance to effectively target those turrets. If it was fully crewed shielded Polaris with enabled PDC - your TTK at this distance would be 1-2sec, you'd have to use ballisitc setup on Hornet with lower effective DPS and aim actively maneuvering ship.
I tried a basic mission, and it took a while until they finally started shooting the hostiles, i think when they shot a missile at me, it woke up the PDCs
what about the cockpit? What happens to Skywalker if you blow away the cockpit? And you're missing an important point: Stealth + Ballistics -> PDC = Size 5 Torpedo hitting.
With 2 million shields HP, I don’t think that the turrets HP need to be buffed. I’ve seen that the distortion guns are very lethal now after shields have gone down. I wonder what effect these would have on the Polaris?
can you do another test but with shields on and you using ballistics?
weren't you in nav mode the whole video when you were trying to shoot your missiles?
You switched the Polaris to NAV mode in order to turn off the PDC's so... Easier to kill weapons when not shielded
That weird! it's work fine for me using only R key but tested only in PU i don't know about PTU
So, does this mean that a stealthy ship with a mass driver cannon build could basically snipe a Polaris defenses from a distance? Entire new ship role!
You have to scan target first
How do you scan the ship?
what is that laser repeater
Its working? Yesterday no working for nothing. Npcs attack my polaris pdc nothing
nice
PDCs from bigger ships should definitely outrange fighter weapons. Also i hope they create different designs for them, as they look completely out of place. also different ships should have different levels of PDC weapons. Weapon range should stack with ship size, for example. s1 laser on a fighter 3km range. s1 laser on a corvet 3.2km range. s1 laser on a destroyer 3.4km. This things need alot of work anyway, but i have the feeling after all the critique the last weeks, that they wanna get something like blades out as fast as they can, as the Perseus will have the s3 turrets automated as described.
>s1 laser on a fighter 3km range
Even at 1km distance DPS reduction due to spread (0.5 for NDB repeaters) on target size of Hornet right now is near 80%. This is when firing at staying still AFK target.
Being fired by S1 laser at 3 km I personally wouldn't even bother to maneuver )) You could see HIT indicator flashing but actual damage probably will be somewhere below 1% of nominal DPS
@alexpetrov8871 its not like a simple if function couldnt solve that problem. Just reduce spread gradually and for range sectors.
@@Thor_Asgard_ Spread is not a problem, it is intended feature. It was designed this way and set to keep fight in certain distance. What I'm trying to say - you discuss matters where you have no expertise ))
now lets see the repair cost!
Sub targeting hasn’t worked for me since, like, 3.17
poor polaris
thankyou john for [[ game balance ]] and Yogi's MM
what guns do you have on the hornet?
looks like those NDB guns going by the color and sound but I could be wrong.
@ ty!
shift-r = R?
side turrets s3 top turrets s4 guns btw :D
got it thx!
2 km range? So yes, any pvp fighter will simply shrug off the PDCs. Just like they can ignore your turrets.
2:20 "we can't subtarget in normal mode" - actually you can, it really locks on different parts. Just subtargeting UI sucks and it is hard to see which part exactly is targeted. But they are actually highlighted on the target hologram, just very tiny. Completely unusable, very CIG style.
you are forgetting all the shielding around the gun you would have had to shoot through to get to the gun in the first place, gun health dose not need to be that high.
Do certain space suits effect the amount of G-forces you can handle?
that's actually really good question bc now when you say it that doesn't sound impossible. bc it feel like sometimes my character handle G's worse than other time. but yeah i commented so i get notice if someone answer 😅
@protoni6996 yeah. Plus flight suits irl are designed for this sort of thing depending on the aircraft. Would be a cool feature I think.
Afaik not at the moment. But I have heard the suit guy talk about that type of special flight suit. And it would be a flight suit, not armour.
Yes, in the future when 1.0 will be released.
When shields aren't disabled and its a moving target, good fking luck
If it was moving and fighting back I don’t think it will be easy at all
Whaaaat PDC now shots ships not just torps/missiles thats unexpected ..... teir zero AI Blades lol maybe missiles not firing are due to weapons being turned off
that F7A so sexy
For the love of Christ almighty. DRINK SOME WATER! lol
most of the time my pds didnt even target a fighter
it works on pirate swarm offline mode :D for the 3.24.3 ptu it works when i get up from pilot seat but need some time to react
Clearly sub-targeting hasn't been implemented on the Polaris. I'm sure they will get around to it.
This is just fun to do but impractical in game as I cannot imagine too many times this would ever play out like this so it’s not very useful
It is very practical when you have two Polarises fighting. Especially in the first seconds when Bespoke cannon is stil alive. It has high alpha, low spread, long range, high speed ballistic projectile penetrating shields. So basically who first knocks out opponent's turrets with ballistics - wins.
youre not gonna be shooting the barrels ona turret that easily when youre under fire, moving, the target is moving, AND its shields are up lol.
Dont waste your time testing ballistic scatterguns, they are useless
those guns will be destroyed with random hits :D
Unmanned Polaris, no shields and weapons turned off. How often do you expect to come across this scenario? Your "test" is pointless. Try that on a fully crewed Polaris, post that video, and we'll see how that works out for ya.
Do you know how to read the title, this video is intended only to test which part can be sub-targeted, if so can it be destroyed. And as for a fully crewed Polaris testing for weapons, that is already in the work, you will get exactly that video.