Interesting that you state that this transmission series doesn't fail often. We had a '14 Sienna SE where the transmission failed after just 3300 miles on a 2-week west coast road trip. No towing, just 6 people + luggage. Symptoms were that it suddenly wouldn't shift past 3rd gear w/o just revving - 4th and higher wouldn't engage. The Toyota tech mentioned that there was clutch material all over in the pan, but since dealers mostly just perform parts swaps after some diagnostic steps, that's as much as we learned. The trans was swapped under warranty, but they had to "pull one from the assembly line" as they apparently don't fail often and there wasn't a spare in their parts network. We had to use a loaner van to get home, then the dealer trailered our van from Reno to Phoenix, and swapped their loaner for our van.
They do not fail very often. You have to understand. That there will always be a lemon even in the good ones. Just like there will be a good one in the bad ones. Right now, there's someone driving a nissan altima with a cvt transmission with 250k on the original. Even though we know it's highly likely those transmission will fail way before 250k.
Great vid as always. I wonder how many transmissions have failed since they've done away with dipsticks vs. failed transmissions caused by dumb people with vehicles which had dipsticks. Add the sealed trans to the mix as well. Maybe it's better this way, but does make it more of a pain to DIY. It'd be nice if they included inline filters on many of the more problematic transmissions to help minimize failures in the long term, but that's also something which could be done by a competent DIY'er in most cases.
Remember OEMs don't make any money from 300k mi vehicles, so they will recommend to never change fluids to sell you a new car when yours braks after warranty. Change you fluids, do a lot of preventative maintenance.
These absolutely love to shift flare between 2-3 on early models(up until 2009 I believe). We had the same issue on my brother's car. It had about 200k on it. It was serviced every 50k miles by the original oil. They did offer a service update at the dealership to retune the TCU, but sometimes it was already too late. We permanently fixed it by swapping to a manual transmission(E351) lol.
You are exactly right, the drain method will remove about 2 liter of WS fluid b/c I just did my RAV4 U660 last month. Due to the oil pan design, do you think it's wise drilling a whole at the bottom of tranny oil pan so it will drain extra 1 liter for a total of 3 liter? Your tear-down is so helpful. You are a natural & gifted educator / professor ! 💯
The U660 is a throwaway unit. They always come in completely grenaded and are too expensive to rebuild. Excessive Pump bushing clearance is common and why the pump gears failed. It’s a smooth shifting unit, but it’s a bad design and a step back in your typical Toyota reliability. Blame Toyota for their awful recommended service intervals as well. Even the dealers tell customers the unit is sealed and not serviceable which is a bad joke.
Agreed. A few more failures on this than the U150 series but it needed the Xtra gear for economy and to handle the torque of the 2GR engines. The oil pump failure was astonishing
That vintage (2007) of Avalon had really weak transmissions with a very torquey engine. A relative had hers fail at only 130k miles, but I don't think she ever had the fluid changed. She also didn't stop completely after reversing out of the driveway and shifting into drive. I shuddered every time, but I don't know if this contributed to the early failure or not.
Im a car dealer and i avoid these 07 lexus amd Toyota with this transmission. My friend didnt and all the vehicles he purchased like that the reverse went out lol
This is proof that the Transmission Fluid/Oil, should be Flushed and changed periodically, so it doesn't destroy itself out. Some say every 50-60,000 Miles, but if you say 15-30,000 Km,/10-20,000 miles, then that's good for me
@@speedkar99 Do all Transmissions Pans are like this, this is so inconvenient, I'd like it to be like the Engine's; I'm referring to a 2018 Toyota Corolla
You usually only have to do it once and measure how much comes out, then add that amount every time you drain it. It's important to have sufficient fluid in a transmission, but an ounce or two one way or the other is no big deal.
We had an es350 with i think the same tranny and i want to say it was "sealed" and "lifetime" fluid. Nope. So dumb for them to not make these serviceable. Great car too.
Holy hell this one grenaded. Id probably say it was stolen and driven like so, constant neutral dumping or high loading it by holding both pedals down too long too many times or something.
A lot of Volkswagens have a very similar transmission. They often have Aisin transmissions and that is what that is really. That filter may not have said Toyota on it but does it have a Toyota or Aisin part number on it?
How can some of these mfg's now say you don't need to replace your trans fluid it's good for the life of the car, unless you have a leak then that would necessitate opening it up and of course then replacing the fluid. Guess they hope it lasts just enough out of warranty so when it fails like this one they won't be on the hook for it. They they can make money on parts and labor or you buy a new car from them... I was looking a a newer Chevy Blazer and noticed it had no transmission stick. I think GM might be one of the last mfg to stop people checking it.
@@andersonrodriguez8258 I had a 2018 Sienna with an 8-speed. We sold the car really early, partly because of how poorly that thing shifted from day one off the dealer's lot. So much stuttering and odd behavior at acceleration. A loaner vehicle performed identically, so I think it was by design/factory tuning. No idea how long they'll last.
@@Thorscauldron I can't imagine the level of dissatisfaction driving a CVT for that long would cause. No wonder there are mental health problems in Toyota CVT drivers. CVTs are a truly awful driving experience.
I guarantee you, transmission fluid can't be "never changed" if you want your vehicle to last. Maybe up to the warranty expiration, but fluid breaks down over time, that's just a fact.
Now on that clutch set that was curved I’m thinking that it was slipping for a long long time and the computer recognized it so it kept adding fluid pressure to compensate for the slip so much so that it bent all of the friction disks how impressive 🫢👍💪
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
I am still blown away at the complexity of automatic transmissions 😳🤯😮
It sure is amazing!
The " Lifetime Fluid " is correct. The fluid is lifetime, but the transmission isn't. Love your videos , keep them coming my friend.
It is amazing people still believe in lifetime fluid
It's fluid for the lifetime of the transmission.
@@zxggwrt I know, right?
It's the lifetime of the warranty. Outside of that, you're on your own.
I was being sarcastic.
That oil pump carnage was impressive.
Yes it was!
Interesting that you state that this transmission series doesn't fail often. We had a '14 Sienna SE where the transmission failed after just 3300 miles on a 2-week west coast road trip. No towing, just 6 people + luggage. Symptoms were that it suddenly wouldn't shift past 3rd gear w/o just revving - 4th and higher wouldn't engage. The Toyota tech mentioned that there was clutch material all over in the pan, but since dealers mostly just perform parts swaps after some diagnostic steps, that's as much as we learned. The trans was swapped under warranty, but they had to "pull one from the assembly line" as they apparently don't fail often and there wasn't a spare in their parts network. We had to use a loaner van to get home, then the dealer trailered our van from Reno to Phoenix, and swapped their loaner for our van.
Wow. I didn't think they failed so often. I have a 2011 Sienna 🤞
They do not fail very often. You have to understand. That there will always be a lemon even in the good ones. Just like there will be a good one in the bad ones. Right now, there's someone driving a nissan altima with a cvt transmission with 250k on the original. Even though we know it's highly likely those transmission will fail way before 250k.
Wow, amazing amount of damage. Never seen anything like that. Great video.
It sure was a surprise for me too!
Thank you! Always interesting to watch you take stuff apart to see what ails them.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I agree, it is surprisingly easy to take apart for an auto transmission, I didn't see you using your universal removal tool 🙂
Grinder haha
Ive done 4 drain and fills on my "lifetime" fluid
Yes that's the recommended way
Great vid as always. I wonder how many transmissions have failed since they've done away with dipsticks vs. failed transmissions caused by dumb people with vehicles which had dipsticks. Add the sealed trans to the mix as well. Maybe it's better this way, but does make it more of a pain to DIY. It'd be nice if they included inline filters on many of the more problematic transmissions to help minimize failures in the long term, but that's also something which could be done by a competent DIY'er in most cases.
As long as it lasts past the warranty it's not the OEM's problem anymore.
The Transmission Strainer (Filter) is OEM, not aftermarket.
Thanks
How hell can you manage to break an oil pump this bad ? 🤯
I sure was astonished! Never thought it could crack and seize up
G day from Waterloo I am glad u didn,t need any clothing from ur bro.
Good video
Ths
Welcome
Remember OEMs don't make any money from 300k mi vehicles, so they will recommend to never change fluids to sell you a new car when yours braks after warranty.
Change you fluids, do a lot of preventative maintenance.
Agreed! I think this transmission was more than just not changing the fluid though
The oil pump damage is impressive!
It sure is! I wasn't expecting that.
These absolutely love to shift flare between 2-3 on early models(up until 2009 I believe). We had the same issue on my brother's car. It had about 200k on it. It was serviced every 50k miles by the original oil. They did offer a service update at the dealership to retune the TCU, but sometimes it was already too late. We permanently fixed it by swapping to a manual transmission(E351) lol.
Manual transmission on a V6 2GR?
@@speedkar99 yes that’s correct! Lol
ua-cam.com/video/o4qc4j3_GW4/v-deo.htmlsi=N3rFGUO4hovSx0ay
@@speedkar99 yes that is correct! We used the 4 cyl transmission. m.ua-cam.com/video/o4qc4j3_GW4/v-deo.html
I drained and filled my Camry with Valvoline maxlife trans fluid, it works fine with 2015 Camry.
Good choice. Isn't it the same price as Toyota WS dealership fluid?
@@speedkar99 Valvoline 5 qt jug price at Walmart is less than 1/3 of dealer price of WS.
You are exactly right, the drain method will remove about 2 liter of WS fluid b/c I just did my RAV4 U660 last month. Due to the oil pan design, do you think it's wise drilling a whole at the bottom of tranny oil pan so it will drain extra 1 liter for a total of 3 liter?
Your tear-down is so helpful. You are a natural & gifted educator / professor ! 💯
Or just change your fluid often instead of drilling an extra hole lol
@@Brian_L_5168 or if u trying to get all, disassemble your torque converter to drain most of the fluid lol
No drilling needed. Just do a full flush oil change. This uses the transmission oil pump to evacuate all the oil.
Don't drill a hole!
Just keep changing it every other oil change or so and eventually the fluid will be fresh.
Another awesome video !!! Thanks for sharing !!! 👍
Welcome
The U660 is a throwaway unit. They always come in completely grenaded and are too expensive to rebuild. Excessive Pump bushing clearance is common and why the pump gears failed.
It’s a smooth shifting unit, but it’s a bad design and a step back in your typical Toyota reliability. Blame Toyota for their awful recommended service intervals as well. Even the dealers tell customers the unit is sealed and not serviceable which is a bad joke.
Agreed. A few more failures on this than the U150 series but it needed the Xtra gear for economy and to handle the torque of the 2GR engines.
The oil pump failure was astonishing
So theres no preventing this? Lol does this still happen on the 2010+?
as always awesome education indeed. Thank you regards
My 08 Avalon had an occasional shift flare before it completely failed
That vintage (2007) of Avalon had really weak transmissions with a very torquey engine. A relative had hers fail at only 130k miles, but I don't think she ever had the fluid changed. She also didn't stop completely after reversing out of the driveway and shifting into drive. I shuddered every time, but I don't know if this contributed to the early failure or not.
Besides the flare was there anything else before it blew out?
@@speedkar99 nope. One day I just wouldn’t go into reverse on a really cold morning
Im a car dealer and i avoid these 07 lexus amd Toyota with this transmission. My friend didnt and all the vehicles he purchased like that the reverse went out lol
Obviously another illustration of how Too Much Maintenance leads to ultimate destruction.
Because of this I just went to the dealer and am going to change my transmission fluid now.
This is proof that the Transmission Fluid/Oil, should be Flushed and changed periodically, so it doesn't destroy itself out. Some say every 50-60,000 Miles, but if you say 15-30,000 Km,/10-20,000 miles, then that's good for me
I'd say once a year drain and fill. Keeps the fluid fresh and not flushed.
@@speedkar99 Thx👍🙂
@@speedkar99 Do all Transmissions Pans are like this, this is so inconvenient, I'd like it to be like the Engine's; I'm referring to a 2018 Toyota Corolla
Transmission computer is built onto the valve body.
No
Probably the “lifetime” fluid that destroyed this transmission
No such thing as lifetime fluid
@@speedkar99 Totally agree!
No wonder it failed with those insane fluid filling and checking instructions
Rubbish. It's a common and dead simple method.
You usually only have to do it once and measure how much comes out, then add that amount every time you drain it. It's important to have sufficient fluid in a transmission, but an ounce or two one way or the other is no big deal.
Not really. You should measure the proper level because some could leak or not be filled correctly to begin with.
A dipstick would have been so much easier
@@speedkar99 That transmission had a dipstick - the owner. (Explainer: in Australia, a dipstick is colloquial for a not very smart person)
Looks like Toyota wanted to keep up with hondas v6 automatic transmissions
Haha!
We had an es350 with i think the same tranny and i want to say it was "sealed" and "lifetime" fluid. Nope. So dumb for them to not make these serviceable. Great car too.
They aren't sealed. They can be changed. They just don't recommend it.
Holy hell this one grenaded. Id probably say it was stolen and driven like so, constant neutral dumping or high loading it by holding both pedals down too long too many times or something.
Agreed. This was definitely abused or driven without fluid caused by the hole in the pan.
A lot of Volkswagens have a very similar transmission. They often have Aisin transmissions and that is what that is really. That filter may not have said Toyota on it but does it have a Toyota or Aisin part number on it?
imagine a rear engine 2.5 ar-fe mr2 style , on a scion tC / Camry
Don't they just put the V6 2GR in there already? 2AR is too slow
It's so small! I'm used to the big ZF units.
Once I took off the bell housing it sure does look small for a Highlander
Can't say that's well used but it certainly is well abused.
Agreed. Abused. This one is rough.
How can some of these mfg's now say you don't need to replace your trans fluid it's good for the life of the car, unless you have a leak then that would necessitate opening it up and of course then replacing the fluid. Guess they hope it lasts just enough out of warranty so when it fails like this one they won't be on the hook for it. They they can make money on parts and labor or you buy a new car from them... I was looking a a newer Chevy Blazer and noticed it had no transmission stick. I think GM might be one of the last mfg to stop people checking it.
1. It's for the lifetime of the transmission, not the car.
2. The fluid can be changed. They just don't recommend it.
Friiiick, I have a U660E with 240k mi, bought it used, never been changed, and the drain plug is seized on.
Good luck to me, I guess
How ironic my U660F in my 2010 Rx350 just took a crap.
Carrrrrrnaaaage
Big time
Hello there!🙌🏼
Hello there!
That clutch is all steels and no frictions! Huh?
Well it is now
THANK YOU JESUS !
So, let me wrap my head around this; With all those clutch packs slipping and burning, the driver just keeps trucking on???????😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫
Of course! Have you never watched Just Rolled In? 😄
Oh yeah! Using the transmission to the last.
What transmission from Toyota was more reliable 4 speed 5 speed or 6 ?
Toyota 5 speeds will outlive the car.
5 speed U151
Where you guys rank their 8 speed being use since mid 2010s
I had a 4 speed in a 2004 RAV4. It lasted about 160k. It was $6k to replace it.
@@andersonrodriguez8258 I had a 2018 Sienna with an 8-speed. We sold the car really early, partly because of how poorly that thing shifted from day one off the dealer's lot. So much stuttering and odd behavior at acceleration. A loaner vehicle performed identically, so I think it was by design/factory tuning. No idea how long they'll last.
I hope at least the car had high miles....
No idea.
If it was cvt it would have failed a long time ago
There are Corolla CVTs with 2-3 hundred thousand miles on them still going strong browse the net.
@@Thorscauldron maybe nissan should take some notes
@@Thorscauldron I can't imagine the level of dissatisfaction driving a CVT for that long would cause. No wonder there are mental health problems in Toyota CVT drivers. CVTs are a truly awful driving experience.
I'm curious as to how those are holding up.
Perhaps! Especially if towing
It's a lot like a 50k mile Nissan CVT that forgot the fluid change
Lol.
Change oil every 30K
It's easy to take apart because it practically fell apart
Haha
Another abused to Toyota by its consumers.
They are reliable but not invincible
@@speedkar99 Yeah, man.
You do not need to change transmission fluid every 15,000 km. It generally never needs changing anymore.
Lol sure, if you want your transmission to catastrophically fail like this one.
I guarantee you, transmission fluid can't be "never changed" if you want your vehicle to last. Maybe up to the warranty expiration, but fluid breaks down over time, that's just a fact.
@@tedsteiner that's fine, you can be wrong.
Please don't speak in adult circles, stay in kindergarten where it doesn't matter what bullsh*t you spew.
What kind of today's transmissions are you talking about?
Now on that clutch set that was curved I’m thinking that it was slipping for a long long time and the computer recognized it so it kept adding fluid pressure to compensate for the slip so much so that it bent all of the friction disks how impressive 🫢👍💪
It's very impressive, but yes I've seen this before.