Its not that honda wanted to be different. Its that they didnt want to pay patent royalties when they first designed an automatic in the 70s. They were automated manuals till till the 10 speed that came out in the 2018 Accord 2.0. Thats their first planetary automatic.
Nah they want to be different, especially opposite of Toyota. If you look in the engine bay of old Hondas(I usually open up 90’s and 00’s models) the transmission and certain things are orientated the opposite way a traditional Toyota would and stuff like this where they were like oh you have planetary gears we don’t need that, oh you got dohc standard cause it manages power and efficiency better? It’s okay we’ll keep the single cam going, Honda just loves being the contrarian
I always did admire the old Honda engineering. They always had something to prove to someone. There is an story that GM thought the CVCC system wouldn't work on bigger engines, so Honda imported a Caprice with a 350 SBC and engineered heads for it, and guess what, the Honda heads made the same power but lower fuel consumption and better emissions.
Actually, they wanted to pay the royalties. It’s just that the patent holders were giving them a hard time to get a license. So they had to engineer their own designs. Saying that, they really made their design super reliable by 2007 onwards.
@@speedkar99yep used to have an 07 tl that didn’t have any transmission issues with 200k. I did my research and learned the 04-06 TL were the ones with really bad trans issues. The 07-08 models were better built
Later models of the honda H5 transmission no longer use an idling 3rd gear to transfer power from the input shaft to the secondary shaft. Instead they started using an idler gear to directly gear together the input and the secondary shaft all the time. I think they probably made that change to reduce wear on the third gear clutch.
There is also a condition on Honda Pilot Gen 2 autos that the radiator and trans cooler share the same radiator housing. The plate separating the two will rust through and flood the transmission with coolant. That pollutes the solenoids and even after numerous flushings and replaced solenoids... hidden coolant would continue to damage the solenoids. Had to put in a TL transmission of the same format into that 2009 Pilot.
@@hsttrek1 currently 216k miles. Did coolant flushes every 70k however never saw any concerns, always coolant for Asian vehicles. Radiator failure happened around 200k miles. 50k used TL trans put on after 6k miles because coolant kept polluting shift solenoids and OBDII codes shows their failures.
Thanks for the informative video. Honda has had transmission problems since the 90s. Back then the company would not own up to their "poor" design, till the problems were brought out in the newspapers.
Well actually even the 'semi automatic' from '80s had problems. Normally if someone was serious about Honda, Mazda they would get manual. My friend still has 2000 Integra Types R. Before when he worked at Honda dealership he had '99 or 2000 Civic with Integra swap, plus Supercharger. Of course suspension and the other pieces. That thing could keep up with 911 Porsche. As for automatic ATF change every 40-50k km, max, to insure it's not going fail after 100 some k km.
@@pliedtka I also use Amsoil Signature synthetics and it really does help in longevity. You can overcome design flaws in equipment with oils. I've seen this in many ways. Planetary Carriers are common to inline transmissions but bc of the transverse mounting format they can use gearsets. I have a 2010 MDX I was told would need piston oil rings but at 290K+ miles I don't bc of the oil I used. I have developed a small clunk going into reverse and assume it's the worn synchro for the manually selected gearset. Like in the engine, if you have a hot spot design flaw built in an engine or transmission and you select an oil that will survive it you can avoid the problem. Group IV Synthetic and I never trusted the 0-20 Acura recommended and always used a 0-30. and 0-40. " That thing could keep up with 911 Porsche." I've got a friend with a 911 and he'd freak if a Honda kept up with him. LMAO I'd love to see it.
My father purchased a brand new 2006 Honda Ridgeline. Sold it at 200,000 miles running great and never had any transmission problems. But he did service it
Very interesting and well explained. I’m glad you cut apart that filter. Our 07 Odyssey has the original transmission still going strong at 292,000 miles. I’ve changed the fluid every 30,000 miles since new. These transmissions also do best with OEM fluid.
My daughter in on her third professionally rebuilt trans, in last 18 months! The installation shop is not happy only getting $450 to remove replace the trans. 2004 Acura, 145k mi. Added external trans cooler.
@@speedkar99 when the trans warranty is invoked, the trans remanucf only gives $50 per hour and some book hours to the shop. The remanuf used 9 hours, $50 and hour, that's $450. It actually takes closer to 12 hours. I originally paid the shop $150 and hour for the 12 hrs, fair. They are replacing the failed unit, on my 3rd one, only getting $450 for each time. They are not happy, but don't blame me. I had no idea shops only get such a small amount for a re-install of a warranted item
On the 04-06 TL's you can actually replace the filter right after it passes through the coolant warmer. I did it on mine + ATF change every 30K km. There's also a bunch of information about changing out the 3rd and 4th pressure switches. They apparently contribute to the overheating issue. I'm over 200K km on the original transmission, shifts smooth but will still pull hard.
I have a 04 TL at 304k miles on original transmission and original Oil pressure switches, still shifts perfect. I do replace fluid every 20k and filter every 40-50k miles.
Honda V6 transmission has always required ATF service every 30k miles. The official ATF service as described in the official service manual requires drain and fill THREE TIMES, with running through the gears between each drain and fill to mix all ATF thoroughly. The ATF pan is designed to drain 60% to enable 96% fluid change when repeated three times and mixed between drains. My dealer simply refused to do it 3x even if I paid 3x, said it was unnecessary. At 90k with only 3 drain and fills on original 4speed 2000 Odyssey it began to shift funny. In these early days of V6 trans, when the bad reputation was formed, The Odyssey was the largest heaviest car Honda every produced and the trans was geared to handle more load. It had the largest frontal area of any Honda so even on the highway it put more load through the trans than any other Honda, so there was much more heat in all driving situations. There was no supplemental ATF cooler back then, only the radiator. And they still used non-synthetic Z1 ATF which was fine for K20 cars but not up to the lube and cooling demands of the new V6 transmission in Odyssey with dealers refusing to perform the full specified maintenance, and owners unaware that any ATF maintenance was needed at all. I was never asked by my Honda service advisor if I wanted ATF service. I had to ask for it, and they still would only do 1x even when i showed them the Bentley service manual required 3x. This is why Honda V6 transmissions failed. Honda service mismanagement. They did not want to admit the problem until too late. Then they reformulated their ATF, they added supplemental ATF cooling and made internal trans changes to avoid the failures caused by worn out ATF, like small oil passages getting clogged with clutch debris. At 90k I started doing the ATF service myself with Valvoline synthetic ATF that said Honda on the front of the bottle and met all their ratings. I added magnetic external ATF filter. Every 30k I drain and filled the pan with new ATF, then ran 2 quarts at a time out the ATF cooling return hose until it ran clean, about 10 quarts. While the shifting damage never totally healed, it did run until 290k miles under severe abuse as my kart-racing teenage son's high school and college car. Now I use Redline Oil D6 ATF in all my cars. It is much better than Honda DW-1 ATF. I do a single drain and fill every 15k, which is every third oil change. This keeps ATF fresher than waiting until it's all worn out at 50k interval, but same amount of new ATF is used in that interval. Honda could have done similar approach but would require ATF service every 10k, or alongside every oil change. They could have done it as a combo deal for low price. Very easy for DIYers to do drain and fill in the driveway. Switch to Redline D6 and drain/fill your Honda V6 ATF every other oil change, or 10k miles.
I remember asking a Honda service manager about the trans failures in the early 2000s and he said he never heard of anything wrong with them but all my Hondas are standards except for my wife’s Acura TL. I change fluid and filter every year or so, do a 3 drain/fill and it works good.
TL's and RSX's here. I do a single drain and fill on the trans for 3 consecutive oil changes (5k intervals), then skip it for 3 oil changes. That way trans is serviced every 30k miles. Heard of this with 1st TL and it's always worked for me.
Finally somebody posted what was needed to be said about Honda automatics. I always said that 40-50k km is a max the ATF can take because there is only 3-3,5L plus whatever is in torque converter. These are small, compact trannies unlike the GM ones from the early 2000s or even Aisin ones. In general Honda requires more frequent fluid changes on their AWD and 4x4 because they use light viscosity fluid in the diff and transfer case. Still this tranny is nothing compared to Ford, not only Fiesta/Focus but later V8 Ford's and Lincolns. We put a used tranny on 2021 Aviator with barely 80 few k km.
Is the 6 speed any better? When I got an odyssey in 2015 (6 speed) I was well aware of odyssey transmission failure, (its like they tried so hard to copy chrysler minivans they included a gernading transmission 😂) but the toyota sienna drove like a bus and its better to risk it with the minivan I enjoyed driving than to drive a minivan I hated every day. Anyway its now 8 years ans 86k later and it hasnt blown up yet but it was shuddering at 60k and the honda tripple flush treatment fixed it, however Honda doesnt reccomend doing that till 100k. They should tell owners to do it at 40k. I also have a 2015 accord v6 with the same transmission, same miles and its fine. I think the problem in the odysseys is just due to it being too heavy for those 5 speeds to handle.
My '15 Accord V6 H6 has had zero problems. The problem with the H5 was cooling of the 2nd gear set. Honda recalled these H5s to install a larger cooling passage for the 2nd gear, which was just a bandaid. The H6 (with the recommended 30k service) should be teouble-free and long-lasting.
2004 Acura TL owner here with 304k miles on the original transmission.. still shifts smooth, maintenance is key and knowing how to properly drive the cars..
The base variant K20C is still NA as @nothing.mp3 said. It has the changes (compared to the old K20A/K20Z) like the reversed cylinder head from the turbo versions of the K20C. There was a recall for (unfortunately) incorrect piston rings on those IIRC, but that should be fixed now. Manual transmission is still available on some trims of this engine. I'm not a fan of the L15 turbo (IMO it's almost literally a Fit engine with a turbo on it, it's designed for lightweight and low friction -- it has no overhead or reserve strength IMO, it's already more or less maxed out at stock power level, unlike the K20 or K24). It would be great if the Civic Si still came with a NA K24 engine (I think the 9th gen version is underrated despite the single exhaust port), but it is what it is. Subaru and Toyota are really flying the flag now -- the GR86/BRZ FA24 engine performs great, it's easily a match for the K24 now in terms of performance!
Aspirated 4 cylinders are difficult to find even in developing markets. You can find plenty of aspirated 3 cylinders, though. Manual transmission is still available on the lowest trims of the cheapest cars.
@@13231wmw Most of the Mazda and Suzuki engine range is still naturally aspirated. I think Mazda takes great pride in achieving high efficiency with non-downsized non-turbo four-cylinder engines (2.0-2.5 NA instead of the typical 1.0-1.5 downsize turbo), although the Suzuki engines are just basic older designs. Also most Toyota hybrids have naturally aspirated four cylinder engines too (as do most ordinary base model Camrys too). Interestingly, the common Toyota 2AR/2AZ Camry four cylinder NA engine supposedly responds well to tuning and is a good candidate for swapping into MR2 sportscars -- it's common to use Hybrid engines (high compression) and replace the exhaust camshaft with a second high-lift/long-duration intake camshaft.🙂 The standard 150hp of the Camry hybrid 2.5L engine can be drastically increased to 250hp with these modifications (and a suitable intake, header and tune) apparently!
The prob I've found with the Hondas is the case bores for the bearings wobble and allow the bearings to have play, which in turn wears the feed tube bushings in the shafts and cause pressure loss to the clutches. I enjoy your videos.
I have a 2010 Accord V6 coupe with the automatic. I have 201 000km on the clock and the transmission still works fine although the 3rd gear shift is a little jerky. I change te fluid every 2 years (drain, mesure, and fill with the same amount drained).
Speedcar, your knowledge begs the question: Why are you not a chief powertrain engineer at a major car manufacturer? You never fail to impress me with these tear downs.
I am one lucky guy, I guess! I drive a 2005 MDX with around 250,000 miles on the original powertrain. It still drives fine and the engine has plenty of power. The only issue I have to take care of is that it leaks engine oil in a few known spots.
I have a 2011 Ridgeline, 221,000 km. not a single issue, I take care of it myself, kind of a hobby, but not OCD. Runs like the day I bought it. I love your videos, just feel bad for the toothbrush!!
This transmission looks like it's been poorly rebuilt. That filter is the reason why it failed. Factory transmission came with a strainer type filter(there's fine mesh inside), not media type(cardboard basically) filter. Also, it looks like they didn't adjust the proper clutch pack clearance. So, they bind badly when it gets hot(also from fluid starvation).
I have a 2009 Accord Coupe V6 with 54K miles, I only drive it around town. Have no problems with the engine or transmission. All my important fluids were changed at 30K, I had to forcefully tell the dealership that I wanted it changed despite them telling me its not necessary. I am glad I found your video as I have proof now as to why I wanted things flushed and changed ahead of Honda's recommendations. I've been driving Accords since 1986 and the 2009 V6 will be my last Accord. I absolutely hate the fact that they changed to CVT transmissions. My next car will have a traditional transmission, selection is slim but I will find an AT no matter what.
Owner of a late Acura TL here with nearly 200,000 miles on the original transmission. This design wasn’t really designed for extra power/torque of their V6 engines in the late 1990s. They finally perfected this design by the time 2006-2007 model years onward.
There is an external filter on these that’s quite easy to do when you do a fluid change. It’s located right by the cooler with the hard line and banjo bolt 😊
Bought my 1999 Accord with 4 cyl brand new and immediately installed an external trans cooler up front. Every second summer I drain the trans and replace with new fluid. Still driving strong with no issues (knock on wood).
@@napalmholocaust9093 Yes, I was aware of that and is why I mentioned it. However, over 25 years of use without a single problem is still worth mentioning. Maintenance pays off and installing a cooler is benificial to either a 4 cyl or the V6. I think of that every hot day when the car is driving in stop and go traffic.
Our 2010 Honda Odyssey has 100,200 miles. Trans fluid was changed at 50,000 and just last week. Fluid was in great shape, not burnt or black at all. We have never had a problem, although we do not always pound on the gas and go easy which has probably helped prolong the life of it.
My friends wife, close to 450k km on old 2010 Odyssey after tranny was replaced on warranty. Her current Odyssey close to 400k km, again original one replaced after warranty, so I guess 250k+ km. But friend being ex Honda mechanic does the ATF change every 30k. Cheaper than transmission ;)
Pre 2005 H5 3 shaft Post 2005 H5 4 shaft It was to stop the 3rd idle gear from cooking itself. Which cooked the Zw1/Dw1 fluid and sent that around to the rest of the transmission
I have a 2004 Honda Odyssey with 310k miles . Sometimes especially when cold the transmission will lose forward gear when coming to a stop or during a hard downshift . When I put in low gear or 2nd gear it will resume operation. A shop was telling me that the one way sprag clutch is bad. I’ve been driving like this for 10k miles. Will there be a time that this will ultimately fail and rendering the vehicle motionless ?
Honda eventually reached the limits of this transmission design and switched to a ZF 9 speed for their V6 cars and the diesel CR-V. Afterwards, they made their own 10-speed planetary automatic for 2020 and beyond. Nowadays, Honda has switched almost everything to CVTs. The only units using the 10-speed are those powered by the K20C or any V6 application.
those transmissions did have a great overdrive ratio.. :) I got my old 2000 v6 accord up to 130 one. had a 3.2 TL where it always slipped into 3rd, lucky there was electronic shiftng so i could manually do it if I needed to
Just like autotragic NSX. It surprised me when looking at the service manual. The transmission is basically like the honda cub. Big multi plate clutch basket on shaft, just solenoid/hydraulicly controlled intead of your foot. Unfortunately still slush coupling tho.
typical aisin gearbox, good gearboxes untill the filter gets clogged and you are basically screwed, you might prolong the buildup by replacing the oil every 3-4 years but i doubt many do that since they are being told "lifetime oil"
These transmissions were before lifetime fluid became a thing. I wouldn't say they were good. A time bomb waiting to happen which affected resale values drastically
running my honda odyssey on a rebuilt BYBA with 2nd gear spray cooler and external transmission cooler. no issues so far, but I don't stay in 2nd gear for very long and like to "assist" the transmission while shifting (less throttle during shifts)
@@speedkar99 idk. I got used to trying to baby transmission shifts on my 1998 civic. The previous (civic) owner put tires that are way too tall without changing the final drive and ruined the 2nd gear clutch. It actually shifts just fine without me babying it, but I think it's fun to baby it anyway 🤣
The 9 speed is a zf unit, same unit used by chrysler in the pacifica and jeep cherokee. The difference is the unit in Hondas is built in a zf plant in the us and chryslers unit is built by chrsler under license. No suprise the chrysler unit has more problems.
@@speedkar99 they chrysler unit is worse. The big issue is it uses dog clutchches which can make shifting feel harsh. Alot of the time people think theres a problem when there isnt. Oh and another fun fact is nissan is now using the zf 9 speed in the pathfinder after dealing with cvt meltdown in the prior gen pathfinder.
I actually have an 05 TL automatic myself which has the same transmission as the 06. I have about 109k miles on the original transmission and do forsee a transmission rebuild as I put some more miles on it. I run Redline Type F ATF and have been looking into installing an external ATF cooler sometime in the future. I can't even drive up a mountain road at the speed limit without the temps climbing to almost overheating levels which has made me weary to take it on road trips.
@speedkar99 Yes, I actually had a time where I was cruising at about 85 mph on some freeway in the desert towards the end of a road trip and as we were climbing a small hill, the engine rpms rose like it was in neutral and the car would not go much faster. I immediately pulled off the freeway to let the transmission cool down for about an hour. After that it drove fine.
Hello @speedkar99. I watched your CVT videos and I wonder what you think about the recent e-CVT from Toyota? It has a "1st" gear to start the rotation of the shaft and it's coupled with an electric motor which I think relieves a lot pick torque on the metal belt.
@@speedkar99 Thank you for your answer. Maybe you didn't get your hands on one because it's reliable. I like manual cars but this might be a game changer considering Toyota obsession
as you say the clutch look like new and I wonder the person who do the rebuild didn't change the filter? or the guy constantly use the transmission as engine braking that make the clutch burn?
The Honda automatic transmissions aren't too bad, imo, 2004 Accord V6 5-spd auto: 15.5s 1/4 mile 2004 Accord V6 6-spd manual7 14.5s 1/4 mile The downer is the missing gear! In the top gear, I'm spinning ~3200rpm at real 60mph! (I do have smaller tires, than it "should", but when the tires were oem OD, I couldn't get it this low.)
Lol, mine is not a 5-spd! 2001 BB6 (prelude), and my tires are only ~0.17% smaller. When it gets this slammed every tenth counts! The Prelude might be based on the Accord, but it was built for a completely different customer!
What could cause hard shifting on each gear of Accord 1998 4AT European version (M47A tranny)? Also, the engine is noticeably jerking when shifting between P-R-N-D4? ATF refreshed with Honda ATF DW-1 and leveled, shift and lock-up solenoids were removed and powered on the bench (clicking smoothly), then cleaned (screens were clean, no debris). The drain plug magnet had a lot of material on it. The transmission turned out to have 1l oil extra, once leveled it started shifting better, but it still has hard shifting and engine jerking when the lever goes through P-R-N-D4. Ideas?
I have an 06 TL. My transmission made it 160k before rebuild. Not due to failure, some dummy (cough me) tried breaking loose the atf drain plug to do the maintenance and cracked the housing 😅 they really are great cars though. Made a rebuild a no brainer for me 🤷♂️
Any chance you could get hands on and tear apart a modern 2016-2022 pilot/ridgeline 6 speed? These boxes are dropping like flies and I'd like to see if there's a definite point of failure. Typically fluid cooks itself way head of schedule and fries the torque converter, then if left unaddressed destroys the entire transmission by clogging the lines and wearing out the clutches.
@@speedkar99 my assumption is that it is a byproduct of cylinder deactivation. Honda tries to minimize uneven engine vibration when half the engine is off by making the torque converter unlock when cruising. The lock up clutch wears significantly faster than normal, goes metal-to-metal and puts iron in the transmission fluid, ruining the transmission. But before that the warning signs show themselves with a torque converter shudder condition since in the meantime it just overheats the fluid and fills it with clutch material. Partially tested this theory by installing a VCM muzzler device in someone's car and they haven't had a shudder complaint since and their pilot shifts perfectly.
What would you recommend for hard shifting Accord 5th gen 4 speed transmission? If I am doing a rebuild what improvements as prevention to be considered?
That’s the craziest accusation ever! My last 4 acura had zero trans issues and they all had over 200k MILES and one had 305,000 miles! CHANGE YOUR FLUID PEOPLE! They only die when you don’t change the fluid like Honda requires!
I'm at 260k miles on mine BUT it is a weak transmission. In cold weather I feel a slip possibly of the torque converter when getting on the freeway before its warmed up. When I select D3 then manually shift up to D I can avoid this. In heavy traffic a manually select 2nd gear to keep it from needlessly shifting up and down below say 20-25 MPH.
I have a 5 speed on my 2007 2.4 accord. Drain and refil every2- 3 years with an exterior filter change.220000 km and shifts like a dream.never had issues.I think these are not meant for the extra torque that the v6 has. Most of the failiures i ve read a bout happen either on the heavier cars or v6 models. I can see the corelation.They are a bit sensitive but with propper maintenance they can last a lot.Saw a tsx for sale with 500000 miles ,not km with and original transmission 5 speed,never rebuilt.
have pilot 2019 and already have the original transmission replaced and going to need another replacement soon? Anyway I could save it? I love the pilot but these transmission problems just don’t go away, if anyone relates pls share tips/things that have worked to preserve the tranny. Thank you Speedkar awesome video.
I have an 08 TSX with the 5AT. I admit I drive it hard! Lots of vtec. But one night I noticed the PRND lights went out on the shifter and that is my excuse to 6 speed swap 😩😂
This makes me a little less optimistic that my mom’s 6AT in her 2015 Accord V6 will last to 150k+ miles, even doing drain and fills on time. I take it it’s basically this with another clutch and gear.
Seems to me that with modern electronic controls, that they should be able to automate a standard transmission, by moving the forks and activating the clutch. Either that, or make it a dual-clutch design. I suppose people would complain if there was a slight delay changing gears.
I think Subaru and BMW did automated manuals like that and stopped doing it. Honda has the better idea with clutches in between the gears, their only problem with this transmission was making the oil filters internal
it has been done on big rigs, they use air cylinders to quick shift the gears. I've never seen a company use an electric motor to accelerate the clutch to a certain rpm. that would eliminate the crash of gears and the need for synchromesh units. My favourite way to automate a manual is to use two half size engines and two half size manual gearboxes. that way you can change gears on one while the other keeps the vehicle moving. also you have free two wheel drive without paying extra for a lsd.
That was all of the early single-clutch automated manuals -- not just BMW or Subaru, Honda had one too "iShift", FIAT had one, Smart car had one. Dual-clutch models (two inputs shafts) are more popular now, as they shift much faster (as long as it predicts correctly the next gearshift) -- those automated single-clutch manuals tended to be very clunky.
No. It's built very similar to other DCTs, but uses a torque converter instead of a dual-mass flywheel. Smoother takeoff and torque multiplication at the cost of mechanical efficiency, that is until the converter locks up. Another major advantage is that you also don't have to worry about slipping the clutches when creeping, as the torque converter allows slip itself. Shifting speeds are unchanged with the converter, it's faster than the ZF 9 speed and any other typical auto. I've heard they're pretty good, though early model years had issues with software updates being needed to fix the bump when it downshifts to 1st and some torque converters failing. I have a '19 TLX and the DCT's been fine since I owned it, but I only have 27K on mine. Haven't really heard of any mechanical flaws to the gearbox itself, and someone on Reddit apparently got over 200K on theirs and it's still shifting fine.
My 06 ridgeline, when driven on backroads around here, constantly "modulates" the torque converters clutch, it can't decide whether to lock or unlock it at say 45+/- mph. It is annoying, and guaranteed to cause wear. So I usually hit the "od off" button, which inhibits the TC clutch, but also limits it to 1,2, and 3rd gear. Very annoying, but I prefer it to TC clutch wear. I heard that there is a software update to fix this...maybe I'll just sell it and stick to toyota with a manual. I really dislike auto transmissions. Even those that are considered reliable usually don't shift when I want them to, and shift all too frequently when I don't want them to. Complex junk for lazy drivers..
The worse car I've ever owned was a 2003 V6 Acura TLS. It developed a sudden uncommanded downshift problem that would drop down to 2nd gear while doing 65 mph on the highway. It would slam you into the steering wheel if you didn't have your seatbelt on and cause anyone following too close to almost have a rear end collision. I understand this was a chronic problem with these transmissions and I don't understand why these cars weren't recalled for safety reasons. I'll never buy a Honda product again! Oh yeah, when it would do it's uncommanded downshift oil would belch out of the torque converter area. I thought it was engine oil but it turned out to be trans fluid. WTF was that comming from?
@@speedkar99 $1000 only for the 2003 odyssey. Factory reman trans and updated pcm. After negotiations with dealer and Honda. Originally $6500. On the 2001 Acura TL I just junked it as no more factory support. $7000 estimate. Both burned the third gear clutch pack to ash as was the main failure point on the five speeds.
Its not that honda wanted to be different. Its that they didnt want to pay patent royalties when they first designed an automatic in the 70s. They were automated manuals till till the 10 speed that came out in the 2018 Accord 2.0. Thats their first planetary automatic.
Nah they want to be different, especially opposite of Toyota. If you look in the engine bay of old Hondas(I usually open up 90’s and 00’s models) the transmission and certain things are orientated the opposite way a traditional Toyota would and stuff like this where they were like oh you have planetary gears we don’t need that, oh you got dohc standard cause it manages power and efficiency better? It’s okay we’ll keep the single cam going, Honda just loves being the contrarian
@@eVerProductions1I like SOHC at first, until I was introduced to the legendary DOHC K-Series. Such a beast of an engine.
I always did admire the old Honda engineering.
They always had something to prove to someone.
There is an story that GM thought the CVCC system wouldn't work on bigger engines, so Honda imported a Caprice with a 350 SBC and engineered heads for it, and guess what, the Honda heads made the same power but lower fuel consumption and better emissions.
Yes they wanted to be different. It costed them alot in recalls and warranty but I think it's been paid off for by now.
Actually, they wanted to pay the royalties. It’s just that the patent holders were giving them a hard time to get a license. So they had to engineer their own designs. Saying that, they really made their design super reliable by 2007 onwards.
Watching this as an owner of a 2007 Honda Accord V6 with 175K miles on the original transmission ...
By 2007 the failure rates dropped
lol 06s and under
My 06 ridge with 215k running strong... but fluid change evey year since new
Exceptional,
yeah,
that's more like an xception rather than norm
@@speedkar99yep used to have an 07 tl that didn’t have any transmission issues with 200k. I did my research and learned the 04-06 TL were the ones with really bad trans issues. The 07-08 models were better built
Later models of the honda H5 transmission no longer use an idling 3rd gear to transfer power from the input shaft to the secondary shaft. Instead they started using an idler gear to directly gear together the input and the secondary shaft all the time. I think they probably made that change to reduce wear on the third gear clutch.
That's a good idea !
There is also a condition on Honda Pilot Gen 2 autos that the radiator and trans cooler share the same radiator housing. The plate separating the two will rust through and flood the transmission with coolant. That pollutes the solenoids and even after numerous flushings and replaced solenoids... hidden coolant would continue to damage the solenoids. Had to put in a TL transmission of the same format into that 2009 Pilot.
Ouch! I think that's common on a few other makes as well
Same with gen 3 Honda crvs. I have a 2011 and the transmission feed lines are at the bottom for the transmission cooler.
What a terrible idea, Honda!
Miles? / Coolant changes?
@@hsttrek1 currently 216k miles. Did coolant flushes every 70k however never saw any concerns, always coolant for Asian vehicles. Radiator failure happened around 200k miles. 50k used TL trans put on after 6k miles because coolant kept polluting shift solenoids and OBDII codes shows their failures.
Thanks for the informative video. Honda has had transmission problems since the 90s. Back then the company would not own up to their "poor" design, till the problems were brought out in the newspapers.
Yeah it took them a long time to fix it!
Well actually even the 'semi automatic' from '80s had problems. Normally if someone was serious about Honda, Mazda they would get manual. My friend still has 2000 Integra Types R. Before when he worked at Honda dealership he had '99 or 2000 Civic with Integra swap, plus Supercharger. Of course suspension and the other pieces. That thing could keep up with 911 Porsche.
As for automatic ATF change every 40-50k km, max, to insure it's not going fail after 100 some k km.
@@pliedtka I also use Amsoil Signature synthetics and it really does help in longevity. You can overcome design flaws in equipment with oils. I've seen this in many ways. Planetary Carriers are common to inline transmissions but bc of the transverse mounting format they can use gearsets. I have a 2010 MDX I was told would need piston oil rings but at 290K+ miles I don't bc of the oil I used.
I have developed a small clunk going into reverse and assume it's the worn synchro for the manually selected gearset. Like in the engine, if you have a hot spot design flaw built in an engine or transmission and you select an oil that will survive it you can avoid the problem. Group IV Synthetic and I never trusted the 0-20 Acura recommended and always used a 0-30. and 0-40.
" That thing could keep up with 911 Porsche." I've got a friend with a 911 and he'd freak if a Honda kept up with him. LMAO I'd love to see it.
That's why I can't find a Acura TL with a manual transmission in my area. That's the sweet spot
Only way to get a TL is with a manual. I have an auto as my daily but I've owned a manual before and it's a night and day difference.
My father purchased a brand new 2006 Honda Ridgeline. Sold it at 200,000 miles running great and never had any transmission problems. But he did service it
Very interesting and well explained. I’m glad you cut apart that filter. Our 07 Odyssey has the original transmission still going strong at 292,000 miles. I’ve changed the fluid every 30,000 miles since new. These transmissions also do best with OEM fluid.
Install a cooler and keep draining and filling the fluid. Agreed on the OEM
8:24 Man, that's complicated, it's remarkable they last as long as they do. I sure am glad I don't need a transmission anymore.
Do you ride a bicycle?
@@speedkar99😂
My daughter in on her third professionally rebuilt trans, in last 18 months! The installation shop is not happy only getting $450 to remove replace the trans. 2004 Acura, 145k mi. Added external trans cooler.
Ouch. Why $450?
@@speedkar99 when the trans warranty is invoked, the trans remanucf only gives $50 per hour and some book hours to the shop. The remanuf used 9 hours, $50 and hour, that's $450. It actually takes closer to 12 hours. I originally paid the shop $150 and hour for the 12 hrs, fair. They are replacing the failed unit, on my 3rd one, only getting $450 for each time. They are not happy, but don't blame me. I had no idea shops only get such a small amount for a re-install of a warranted item
I always enjoy your videos. I learn so much. I have a 2012 V6 automatic Accord and I swear there’s transmission issues. Only had 150,000 miles too.
Glad you like the teardown.
Change your fluid.
On the 04-06 TL's you can actually replace the filter right after it passes through the coolant warmer. I did it on mine + ATF change every 30K km. There's also a bunch of information about changing out the 3rd and 4th pressure switches. They apparently contribute to the overheating issue. I'm over 200K km on the original transmission, shifts smooth but will still pull hard.
Nice. So the pressure switch doesn't allow for enough fluid flow?
I have a 04 TL at 304k miles on original transmission and original Oil pressure switches, still shifts perfect. I do replace fluid every 20k and filter every 40-50k miles.
Honda V6 transmission has always required ATF service every 30k miles. The official ATF service as described in the official service manual requires drain and fill THREE TIMES, with running through the gears between each drain and fill to mix all ATF thoroughly. The ATF pan is designed to drain 60% to enable 96% fluid change when repeated three times and mixed between drains. My dealer simply refused to do it 3x even if I paid 3x, said it was unnecessary. At 90k with only 3 drain and fills on original 4speed 2000 Odyssey it began to shift funny. In these early days of V6 trans, when the bad reputation was formed, The Odyssey was the largest heaviest car Honda every produced and the trans was geared to handle more load. It had the largest frontal area of any Honda so even on the highway it put more load through the trans than any other Honda, so there was much more heat in all driving situations. There was no supplemental ATF cooler back then, only the radiator. And they still used non-synthetic Z1 ATF which was fine for K20 cars but not up to the lube and cooling demands of the new V6 transmission in Odyssey with dealers refusing to perform the full specified maintenance, and owners unaware that any ATF maintenance was needed at all. I was never asked by my Honda service advisor if I wanted ATF service. I had to ask for it, and they still would only do 1x even when i showed them the Bentley service manual required 3x. This is why Honda V6 transmissions failed. Honda service mismanagement. They did not want to admit the problem until too late. Then they reformulated their ATF, they added supplemental ATF cooling and made internal trans changes to avoid the failures caused by worn out ATF, like small oil passages getting clogged with clutch debris. At 90k I started doing the ATF service myself with Valvoline synthetic ATF that said Honda on the front of the bottle and met all their ratings. I added magnetic external ATF filter. Every 30k I drain and filled the pan with new ATF, then ran 2 quarts at a time out the ATF cooling return hose until it ran clean, about 10 quarts. While the shifting damage never totally healed, it did run until 290k miles under severe abuse as my kart-racing teenage son's high school and college car. Now I use Redline Oil D6 ATF in all my cars. It is much better than Honda DW-1 ATF. I do a single drain and fill every 15k, which is every third oil change. This keeps ATF fresher than waiting until it's all worn out at 50k interval, but same amount of new ATF is used in that interval. Honda could have done similar approach but would require ATF service every 10k, or alongside every oil change. They could have done it as a combo deal for low price. Very easy for DIYers to do drain and fill in the driveway. Switch to Redline D6 and drain/fill your Honda V6 ATF every other oil change, or 10k miles.
290k on an early odyssey is pretty good.
I remember asking a Honda service manager about the trans failures in the early 2000s and he said he never heard of anything wrong with them but all my Hondas are standards except for my wife’s Acura TL. I change fluid and filter every year or so, do a 3 drain/fill and it works good.
TL's and RSX's here. I do a single drain and fill on the trans for 3 consecutive oil changes (5k intervals), then skip it for 3 oil changes. That way trans is serviced every 30k miles. Heard of this with 1st TL and it's always worked for me.
Finally somebody posted what was needed to be said about Honda automatics. I always said that 40-50k km is a max the ATF can take because there is only 3-3,5L plus whatever is in torque converter. These are small, compact trannies unlike the GM ones from the early 2000s or even Aisin ones. In general Honda requires more frequent fluid changes on their AWD and 4x4 because they use light viscosity fluid in the diff and transfer case.
Still this tranny is nothing compared to Ford, not only Fiesta/Focus but later V8 Ford's and Lincolns. We put a used tranny on 2021 Aviator with barely 80 few k km.
@@mischievouself8047 Great idea! I have little blue tape notes all over my cars to remind me when I did it. LOL
Is the 6 speed any better? When I got an odyssey in 2015 (6 speed) I was well aware of odyssey transmission failure, (its like they tried so hard to copy chrysler minivans they included a gernading transmission 😂) but the toyota sienna drove like a bus and its better to risk it with the minivan I enjoyed driving than to drive a minivan I hated every day. Anyway its now 8 years ans 86k later and it hasnt blown up yet but it was shuddering at 60k and the honda tripple flush treatment fixed it, however Honda doesnt reccomend doing that till 100k. They should tell owners to do it at 40k.
I also have a 2015 accord v6 with the same transmission, same miles and its fine. I think the problem in the odysseys is just due to it being too heavy for those 5 speeds to handle.
My '15 Accord V6 H6 has had zero problems. The problem with the H5 was cooling of the 2nd gear set. Honda recalled these H5s to install a larger cooling passage for the 2nd gear, which was just a bandaid. The H6 (with the recommended 30k service) should be teouble-free and long-lasting.
The 6 speeds are pretty robust so long as you regularly change the ATF.
2004 Acura TL owner here with 304k miles on the original transmission.. still shifts smooth, maintenance is key and knowing how to properly drive the cars..
Nice. How's the engine holding up?
@@speedkar99 great, running perfectly.
Honda built their reputation on naturally aspirated 4 cylinders with a manual. Sad they don't build these anymore
True.
People aren't buying manuals anymore
You can buy a naturally aspirated, port injected, 4cyl manual civic hatchback right now. It’s been an option on the ‘22 ‘23 and ‘24 models
The base variant K20C is still NA as @nothing.mp3 said. It has the changes (compared to the old K20A/K20Z) like the reversed cylinder head from the turbo versions of the K20C. There was a recall for (unfortunately) incorrect piston rings on those IIRC, but that should be fixed now. Manual transmission is still available on some trims of this engine.
I'm not a fan of the L15 turbo (IMO it's almost literally a Fit engine with a turbo on it, it's designed for lightweight and low friction -- it has no overhead or reserve strength IMO, it's already more or less maxed out at stock power level, unlike the K20 or K24). It would be great if the Civic Si still came with a NA K24 engine (I think the 9th gen version is underrated despite the single exhaust port), but it is what it is. Subaru and Toyota are really flying the flag now -- the GR86/BRZ FA24 engine performs great, it's easily a match for the K24 now in terms of performance!
Aspirated 4 cylinders are difficult to find even in developing markets. You can find plenty of aspirated 3 cylinders, though.
Manual transmission is still available on the lowest trims of the cheapest cars.
@@13231wmw Most of the Mazda and Suzuki engine range is still naturally aspirated. I think Mazda takes great pride in achieving high efficiency with non-downsized non-turbo four-cylinder engines (2.0-2.5 NA instead of the typical 1.0-1.5 downsize turbo), although the Suzuki engines are just basic older designs. Also most Toyota hybrids have naturally aspirated four cylinder engines too (as do most ordinary base model Camrys too).
Interestingly, the common Toyota 2AR/2AZ Camry four cylinder NA engine supposedly responds well to tuning and is a good candidate for swapping into MR2 sportscars -- it's common to use Hybrid engines (high compression) and replace the exhaust camshaft with a second high-lift/long-duration intake camshaft.🙂 The standard 150hp of the Camry hybrid 2.5L engine can be drastically increased to 250hp with these modifications (and a suitable intake, header and tune) apparently!
Owner of 05 rsx 400miles when sold , my 06 tsx 250k miles and run like a champ, both cars i changed fluid every 30k, including p/s and brakes.
I think those 4 banger transmissions were far less likely to fail
The prob I've found with the Hondas is the case bores for the bearings wobble and allow the bearings to have play, which in turn wears the feed tube bushings in the shafts and cause pressure loss to the clutches. I enjoy your videos.
I bypassed my radiator with an aftermarket thermostat with external cooler and change fluid every 60k km. No issues. 🤞
Good job! I'd prob do that too
thats the way to go
I have a 2010 Accord V6 coupe with the automatic. I have 201 000km on the clock and the transmission still works fine although the 3rd gear shift is a little jerky. I change te fluid every 2 years (drain, mesure, and fill with the same amount drained).
Great. Lots of the issues were fixed by 2010
Speedcar, your knowledge begs the question: Why are you not a chief powertrain engineer at a major car manufacturer? You never fail to impress me with these tear downs.
I am one lucky guy, I guess! I drive a 2005 MDX with around 250,000 miles on the original powertrain. It still drives fine and the engine has plenty of power. The only issue I have to take care of is that it leaks engine oil in a few known spots.
Nice! 2005 was on the latter half of these failures.
Always enjoy your teardown explanations and parts functions, mahalo!
You are welcome. Lots more transmissions to come
Glad you enjoy them
I have a 2011 Ridgeline, 221,000 km. not a single issue, I take care of it myself, kind of a hobby, but not OCD. Runs like the day I bought it. I love your videos, just feel bad for the toothbrush!!
Nice! Thanks
06s and under fool
@@ExcaliburTTP Fool -Yo Mama!!
@@2405jacko i place my card down and end my turn
@@ExcaliburTTP LOL
i had a 2005 TL and luckily never had to deal with this but it was always on my mind.
It might be some day 🙏
As for ATF temperatures, I hooked up my diagnostic tester and monitored the temps in traffic and on the highway. Never an issue.
Awesome. Now try it towing
@@speedkar99 If I was towing often, I'd buy a vehicle with more towing capacity. The RDX has no towing capacity. What do the specs say?
This transmission looks like it's been poorly rebuilt. That filter is the reason why it failed. Factory transmission came with a strainer type filter(there's fine mesh inside), not media type(cardboard basically) filter. Also, it looks like they didn't adjust the proper clutch pack clearance. So, they bind badly when it gets hot(also from fluid starvation).
I have a 2009 Accord Coupe V6 with 54K miles, I only drive it around town. Have no problems with the engine or transmission. All my important fluids were changed at 30K, I had to forcefully tell the dealership that I wanted it changed despite them telling me its not necessary. I am glad I found your video as I have proof now as to why I wanted things flushed and changed ahead of Honda's recommendations. I've been driving Accords since 1986 and the 2009 V6 will be my last Accord. I absolutely hate the fact that they changed to CVT transmissions. My next car will have a traditional transmission, selection is slim but I will find an AT no matter what.
Owner of a late Acura TL here with nearly 200,000 miles on the original transmission. This design wasn’t really designed for extra power/torque of their V6 engines in the late 1990s. They finally perfected this design by the time 2006-2007 model years onward.
So I've heard. The newer ones are better but not perfect
Damn it's disappointing to hear that these transaxles still had issues at that point, I thought it was just the 2000-03 TL era
I really dont get why they make the filters internal. I guess because they were throwaway cars. No one changes their trans oil anyways
@@TuneStunnaMusicThe 4 and 6 speed autos are very easy to drain and fill (~1/3 of capacity). Every 3rd oil change (15-20K miles), works for me...
There is an external filter on these that’s quite easy to do when you do a fluid change. It’s located right by the cooler with the hard line and banjo bolt 😊
Bought my 1999 Accord with 4 cyl brand new and immediately installed an external trans cooler up front. Every second summer I drain the trans and replace with new fluid. Still driving strong with no issues (knock on wood).
Good idea!
It ain't the 4 banger. Its the v6. 4's will run forever.
@@napalmholocaust9093 Yes, I was aware of that and is why I mentioned it. However, over 25 years of use without a single problem is still worth mentioning. Maintenance pays off and installing a cooler is benificial to either a 4 cyl or the V6. I think of that every hot day when the car is driving in stop and go traffic.
How the heck did you learn all these different transmissions?
I learn as I take things apart
Our 2010 Honda Odyssey has 100,200 miles. Trans fluid was changed at 50,000 and just last week. Fluid was in great shape, not burnt or black at all. We have never had a problem, although we do not always pound on the gas and go easy which has probably helped prolong the life of it.
My Oddyssey with 250 KM with original powertrain. You got to change you ATF 1/3 years or 36 KM.
Good idea. What year?
2006 3.5 Liter/ 5 spd AT
My friends wife, close to 450k km on old 2010 Odyssey after tranny was replaced on warranty. Her current Odyssey close to 400k km, again original one replaced after warranty, so I guess 250k+ km. But friend being ex Honda mechanic does the ATF change every 30k. Cheaper than transmission ;)
I have 05 Acura TL as long as you change fluid and don’t take off fast they last
But if you have that much power you want to use it 😜
I have a 2010 V6 TSX with 5-speed auto - should I start saving up for a rebuild? :(
No I think by then it was fixed
Pre 2005 H5 3 shaft
Post 2005 H5 4 shaft
It was to stop the 3rd idle gear from cooking itself. Which cooked the Zw1/Dw1 fluid and sent that around to the rest of the transmission
TSX wasnt affected, mainly TLs and accords
I drive a honda hrv 1999 with standard 1.6 16v non vtec .
With a cvt transmission.
Have run now 202400 klm on it.
Still run fine.
v6 for fs sakes
Nice. What's a 99 HRV considered in North America? Civic hatch?
@@speedkar99 a shorter model of the Honda c-rv
Its beult from a Honda jazz from 1996 base.
Its small 4x4 awd systeem car.
Its really a brick with 4x4
I have a 2004 Honda Odyssey with 310k miles . Sometimes especially when cold the transmission will lose forward gear when coming to a stop or during a hard downshift . When I put in low gear or 2nd gear it will resume operation. A shop was telling me that the one way sprag clutch is bad. I’ve been driving like this for 10k miles. Will there be a time that this will ultimately fail and rendering the vehicle motionless ?
Yes it will eventually fail. The transmission in this video apparently did not move at all!
Honda eventually reached the limits of this transmission design and switched to a ZF 9 speed for their V6 cars and the diesel CR-V. Afterwards, they made their own 10-speed planetary automatic for 2020 and beyond. Nowadays, Honda has switched almost everything to CVTs. The only units using the 10-speed are those powered by the K20C or any V6 application.
Yes
those transmissions did have a great overdrive ratio.. :) I got my old 2000 v6 accord up to 130 one. had a 3.2 TL where it always slipped into 3rd, lucky there was electronic shiftng so i could manually do it if I needed to
So manually it worked fine?
@@speedkar99 so to speak yeah. it would only slip from 2nd to 3rd and i always had to rev it up and try to shift hoping it would catch
Just like autotragic NSX. It surprised me when looking at the service manual. The transmission is basically like the honda cub. Big multi plate clutch basket on shaft, just solenoid/hydraulicly controlled intead of your foot. Unfortunately still slush coupling tho.
🤣
typical aisin gearbox, good gearboxes untill the filter gets clogged and you are basically screwed, you might prolong the buildup by replacing the oil every 3-4 years but i doubt many do that since they are being told "lifetime oil"
These transmissions were before lifetime fluid became a thing. I wouldn't say they were good. A time bomb waiting to happen which affected resale values drastically
@@speedkar99 so that’s a really rubbish gearbox even with proper maintenance, honda🤣
Aisin had nothing to do with the design of Honda’s autoboxes.
Safe to say wife doesn't watch these videos...16:40
Yep. She doesn't.
Haha..
@@speedkar99 I thought she helped film them! Did not expect that quip, LOL
I hope you and your brother are still friends after stealing all these shirts and toothbrushes
Yes we are still friends. What he does not know won't hurt him.
Yes we are
running my honda odyssey on a rebuilt BYBA with 2nd gear spray cooler and external transmission cooler.
no issues so far, but I don't stay in 2nd gear for very long and like to "assist" the transmission while shifting (less throttle during shifts)
Interesting you have to baby it along but if it lasts alot longer then you've saved great expense
@@speedkar99 idk. I got used to trying to baby transmission shifts on my 1998 civic. The previous (civic) owner put tires that are way too tall without changing the final drive and ruined the 2nd gear clutch.
It actually shifts just fine without me babying it, but I think it's fun to baby it anyway 🤣
The 9 speed is a zf unit, same unit used by chrysler in the pacifica and jeep cherokee. The difference is the unit in Hondas is built in a zf plant in the us and chryslers unit is built by chrsler under license. No suprise the chrysler unit has more problems.
I thought the problem was about the programming as each brand uses their own
I thought the 9 speeds weren't doing too well in the Hondas either.
@@speedkar99 they chrysler unit is worse. The big issue is it uses dog clutchches which can make shifting feel harsh. Alot of the time people think theres a problem when there isnt.
Oh and another fun fact is nissan is now using the zf 9 speed in the pathfinder after dealing with cvt meltdown in the prior gen pathfinder.
Watching this as a 2006 Odyssey owner. But driving 2012 rav4 2.5 now.
🙈
I actually have an 05 TL automatic myself which has the same transmission as the 06. I have about 109k miles on the original transmission and do forsee a transmission rebuild as I put some more miles on it. I run Redline Type F ATF and have been looking into installing an external ATF cooler sometime in the future. I can't even drive up a mountain road at the speed limit without the temps climbing to almost overheating levels which has made me weary to take it on road trips.
The transmission temp overheats?
@speedkar99 Yes, I actually had a time where I was cruising at about 85 mph on some freeway in the desert towards the end of a road trip and as we were climbing a small hill, the engine rpms rose like it was in neutral and the car would not go much faster. I immediately pulled off the freeway to let the transmission cool down for about an hour. After that it drove fine.
I have 2005 Acura TL and 2006 Honda Odyssey. Both run ok so far.
At least those weren't as bad as the early 2000's Hondas.
Hello @speedkar99. I watched your CVT videos and I wonder what you think about the recent e-CVT from Toyota?
It has a "1st" gear to start the rotation of the shaft and it's coupled with an electric motor which I think relieves a lot pick torque on the metal belt.
I think it's a good idea in theory until I get my hands on one to tear it down.
@@speedkar99 Thank you for your answer.
Maybe you didn't get your hands on one because it's reliable.
I like manual cars but this might be a game changer considering Toyota obsession
as you say the clutch look like new and I wonder the person who do the rebuild didn't change the filter? or the guy constantly use the transmission as engine braking that make the clutch burn?
Clutches burn because things heat up. They heat up from over-use (uphill, towing, overload) and the filter clogging.
does this 5 speed internals similar to the 4 speed that is used with f22/h22a engine?
No the 4 cylinder engines are different
The Honda automatic transmissions aren't too bad, imo,
2004 Accord V6 5-spd auto: 15.5s 1/4 mile
2004 Accord V6 6-spd manual7 14.5s 1/4 mile
The downer is the missing gear! In the top gear, I'm spinning ~3200rpm at real 60mph!
(I do have smaller tires, than it "should", but when the tires were oem OD, I couldn't get it this low.)
3200rpm is very high for a 5 speed.
Yeah my 2010 V6 TSX with 5-spd auto does about 2000rpm at around 120km/h ~~ 75mph (but in D, I guess your numbers are from S gear?)
Lol, mine is not a 5-spd!
2001 BB6 (prelude), and my tires are only ~0.17% smaller. When it gets this slammed every tenth counts! The Prelude might be based on the Accord, but it was built for a completely different customer!
My 4 speed does 3200 rpm at around 80mph
@@iank6897 that's how my Accord V6 was, but the Prelude is really short!
What could cause hard shifting on each gear of Accord 1998 4AT European version (M47A tranny)? Also, the engine is noticeably jerking when shifting between P-R-N-D4? ATF refreshed with Honda ATF DW-1 and leveled, shift and lock-up solenoids were removed and powered on the bench (clicking smoothly), then cleaned (screens were clean, no debris). The drain plug magnet had a lot of material on it. The transmission turned out to have 1l oil extra, once leveled it started shifting better, but it still has hard shifting and engine jerking when the lever goes through P-R-N-D4. Ideas?
Good video, hope to see a full video of the 3rd gen Toyota hybrid system
Yep it's coming up. I've got most of it stripped from the car already.
@@speedkar99 that's great we get to leaen everyday from your channel
First view! Love the content and the dialogue delivery.
Great explanation! Very informative video.
Glad it was helpful!
There’s a dipstick on my new Ford’s ten speed automatic but it’s well hidden in the engine bay and there is no mention of it in the operator’s manual
Upkeep is a BIG thing!
Agreed
I have an 06 TL. My transmission made it 160k before rebuild. Not due to failure, some dummy (cough me) tried breaking loose the atf drain plug to do the maintenance and cracked the housing 😅 they really are great cars though. Made a rebuild a no brainer for me 🤷♂️
You cracked the housing by loosening that plug? Wow
Any chance you could get hands on and tear apart a modern 2016-2022 pilot/ridgeline 6 speed? These boxes are dropping like flies and I'd like to see if there's a definite point of failure. Typically fluid cooks itself way head of schedule and fries the torque converter, then if left unaddressed destroys the entire transmission by clogging the lines and wearing out the clutches.
Interesting to know they're still having issues.
@@speedkar99 my assumption is that it is a byproduct of cylinder deactivation. Honda tries to minimize uneven engine vibration when half the engine is off by making the torque converter unlock when cruising. The lock up clutch wears significantly faster than normal, goes metal-to-metal and puts iron in the transmission fluid, ruining the transmission. But before that the warning signs show themselves with a torque converter shudder condition since in the meantime it just overheats the fluid and fills it with clutch material. Partially tested this theory by installing a VCM muzzler device in someone's car and they haven't had a shudder complaint since and their pilot shifts perfectly.
My 1997 Acura rl transmission still alive
the type s having a limited slip differential only applies to manual transmissions as far as i know
Perhaps
What would you recommend for hard shifting Accord 5th gen 4 speed transmission? If I am doing a rebuild what improvements as prevention to be considered?
I forgot my wife’s toothbrush inside of the Honda transmission.
Just service your Honda automatic with Honda ATF every 15K to 30K, and you shouldn't have any issues.
I hope but that doesn't fix cooling issues
How do the screws come off so easily on these old things? Aren't they ever rusty?
That’s the craziest accusation ever! My last 4 acura had zero trans issues and they all had over 200k MILES and one had 305,000 miles! CHANGE YOUR FLUID PEOPLE! They only die when you don’t change the fluid like Honda requires!
not necessarily true, they’re just garbage transmissions
@@zaviermayo272 +1 dog shit trans mated to a somewhat powerful v6 is insane
Not really. Some have good luck with them. Just like life. Excerize doesn't mean you'll love longer.
I'm at 260k miles on mine BUT it is a weak transmission. In cold weather I feel a slip possibly of the torque converter when getting on the freeway before its warmed up. When I select D3 then manually shift up to D I can avoid this. In heavy traffic a manually select 2nd gear to keep it from needlessly shifting up and down below say 20-25 MPH.
I have a 5 speed on my 2007 2.4 accord. Drain and refil every2- 3 years with an exterior filter change.220000 km and shifts like a dream.never had issues.I think these are not meant for the extra torque that the v6 has. Most of the failiures i ve read a bout happen either on the heavier cars or v6 models. I can see the corelation.They are a bit sensitive but with propper maintenance they can last a lot.Saw a tsx for sale with 500000 miles ,not km with and original transmission 5 speed,never rebuilt.
Driving a 98 accord 4 cyl with 354k on the original engine and trans!
V6 mostly ya wanker
Nice! The 4 cylinder was less likely to experience failure.
have pilot 2019 and already have the original transmission replaced and going to need another replacement soon? Anyway I could save it? I love the pilot but these transmission problems just don’t go away, if anyone relates pls share tips/things that have worked to preserve the tranny. Thank you Speedkar awesome video.
I have an 08 TSX with the 5AT. I admit I drive it hard! Lots of vtec. But one night I noticed the PRND lights went out on the shifter and that is my excuse to 6 speed swap 😩😂
Transmissions without an external filter or drain plug are the absolute worse. Turning what should be a routine job into an absolute ordeal.
No drain plug? Did you mean dipstick?
These transmissions do have an external filter right where the hard line goes on the cooler at the top of the tranny. 😊
"there's no excuse" Oh yes there is. They know how to figure it out.
😐
This makes me a little less optimistic that my mom’s 6AT in her 2015 Accord V6 will last to 150k+ miles, even doing drain and fills on time. I take it it’s basically this with another clutch and gear.
The newer ones should be better
Seems to me that with modern electronic controls, that they should be able to automate a standard transmission, by moving the forks and activating the clutch. Either that, or make it a dual-clutch design. I suppose people would complain if there was a slight delay changing gears.
I think Subaru and BMW did automated manuals like that and stopped doing it. Honda has the better idea with clutches in between the gears, their only problem with this transmission was making the oil filters internal
it has been done on big rigs, they use air cylinders to quick shift the gears. I've never seen a company use an electric motor to accelerate the clutch to a certain rpm. that would eliminate the crash of gears and the need for synchromesh units. My favourite way to automate a manual is to use two half size engines and two half size manual gearboxes. that way you can change gears on one while the other keeps the vehicle moving. also you have free two wheel drive without paying extra for a lsd.
That was all of the early single-clutch automated manuals -- not just BMW or Subaru, Honda had one too "iShift", FIAT had one, Smart car had one. Dual-clutch models (two inputs shafts) are more popular now, as they shift much faster (as long as it predicts correctly the next gearshift) -- those automated single-clutch manuals tended to be very clunky.
All this will be gone with e-CVT hybrids
Ford tried that on the Focus....
My 2018 Subaru Forester 6MT has a transmission dipstick. 😅
Nice, because it's manual.
You can use that to check your front diff, That's why. My 01 with a manual does that.
Does the Honda 8DCT follow this same design principle?
No
No. It's built very similar to other DCTs, but uses a torque converter instead of a dual-mass flywheel. Smoother takeoff and torque multiplication at the cost of mechanical efficiency, that is until the converter locks up. Another major advantage is that you also don't have to worry about slipping the clutches when creeping, as the torque converter allows slip itself. Shifting speeds are unchanged with the converter, it's faster than the ZF 9 speed and any other typical auto. I've heard they're pretty good, though early model years had issues with software updates being needed to fix the bump when it downshifts to 1st and some torque converters failing. I have a '19 TLX and the DCT's been fine since I owned it, but I only have 27K on mine. Haven't really heard of any mechanical flaws to the gearbox itself, and someone on Reddit apparently got over 200K on theirs and it's still shifting fine.
Awesome knowledge!!!! Enjoy your videos !!!! 😁😁👍👍
My Honda is a 1.8 with a manual. Best car I’ve ever had
Nice. How many kilometers
@@speedkar99 130k (km). 2015 Civic EX. Love the 9th gen minus the 2012 model
What is your view on Honda 10 speed transmission?
I heard they had some issues but don't personally have experience with it
I had mine die, and never bought a Honda again. Thanks for the video.
Ouch. How many miles and what model?
@@speedkar99 '04 Accord V6 5A with 130k miles.
16:45 "I have no idea how she used to fit into these." 🤣🤣🤣
🤫🤫
Sounds as though the baby called the cops about the stolen onesie.
Woot 🚔
They probably ran Maxlife in it. Big no-no. Honda pen fluid only.
Yeah I'd stick to OE fluid for the transmission.
Coolant you can probably mess around with
Coolant as long it's a POAT coolant regardless of color it will work just fine. I used Zerex Asian vehicle Pink in my Acura TSX.
I was watching another video and I saw this was uploaded a minute ago so I figured I'd be the first to comment. Yipeee
you are now an engineer right? which do do enjoy more...your job as an engineer or working on cars?
Always wondered why they haul ass in reverse without any complaint.
My 06 ridgeline, when driven on backroads around here, constantly "modulates" the torque converters clutch, it can't decide whether to lock or unlock it at say 45+/- mph. It is annoying, and guaranteed to cause wear. So I usually hit the "od off" button, which inhibits the TC clutch, but also limits it to 1,2, and 3rd gear. Very annoying, but I prefer it to TC clutch wear.
I heard that there is a software update to fix this...maybe I'll just sell it and stick to toyota with a manual.
I really dislike auto transmissions. Even those that are considered reliable usually don't shift when I want them to, and shift all too frequently when I don't want them to. Complex junk for lazy drivers..
The newer ones with 9-10 speeds are even worse, always hunting for gears.
Baking pan from the kitchen to catch the oil... Been there :)
Haha it works!
Mine is just fine, but then I am not abusing it. Shifts smooth as well.
Again Avery good explanation
Thanks again!
They just feel like automated gearboxes from a Lamborghini Murcialago
Those use dual clutch transmissions. Kinda similar but those are mechatronics instead of clutches.
Great vid.
Thanks
Amazing engines but bad transmissions
Agreed
The worse car I've ever owned was a 2003 V6 Acura TLS. It developed a sudden uncommanded downshift problem that would drop down to 2nd gear while doing 65 mph on the highway. It would slam you into the steering wheel if you didn't have your seatbelt on and cause anyone following too close to almost have a rear end collision. I understand this was a chronic problem with these transmissions and I don't understand why these cars weren't recalled for safety reasons. I'll never buy a Honda product again!
Oh yeah, when it would do it's uncommanded downshift oil would belch out of the torque converter area. I thought it was engine oil but it turned out to be trans fluid. WTF was that comming from?
Yeah I heard those early Honda transmissions were really really bad.
Love these vids
Manual transmission remains the best transmission.
Hondas are still better than any American car brand
Depends on the model of engine or transmission.
Problems pretty much limited to 1999 thru 2004 4 and 5 speed vehicles heavier and v6 powered. I got burned by two.
Ouch. How much did that Cost?
@@speedkar99 $1000 only for the 2003 odyssey. Factory reman trans and updated pcm. After negotiations with dealer and Honda. Originally $6500. On the 2001 Acura TL I just junked it as no more factory support. $7000 estimate. Both burned the third gear clutch pack to ash as was the main failure point on the five speeds.
@@speedkar99 also they both failed at 93,000 miles. The odyssey was still going strong at 233,000 miles years later when I gave it away.