What makes Thomas Jefferson so controversial? - Frank Cogliano

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  • Опубліковано 28 лис 2024

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  • @moist_spinach
    @moist_spinach Рік тому +2533

    I love how they don't have a final answer by the end of the video. It's up to us to form our opinions

    • @tecpaocelotl
      @tecpaocelotl Рік тому +63

      That's how the series is established.

    • @moist_spinach
      @moist_spinach Рік тому +29

      @@tecpaocelotl yeah, and I appreciate it

    • @PramkLuna
      @PramkLuna Рік тому +30

      Agreed, it's much more meaningful when you get to decide for yourself

    • @ZOCCOK
      @ZOCCOK Рік тому +13

      @@PramkLuna yup, enables us to think and form a decision for ourselves, after noting the merits and demerits of the said person.

    • @berlotti
      @berlotti Рік тому +12

      Or not… and we just stay with the facts without judgement.

  • @maxleroux
    @maxleroux Рік тому +2157

    I'm really glad you brought this series back. History is often a lot more complicated and messed-up than most people realize. Maybe you guys should put George Washington on trial next time. For a guy who was historically famous for being unable to tell a lie... he really lied a lot.

    • @theotherohlourdespadua1131
      @theotherohlourdespadua1131 Рік тому +42

      That story most likely never happen. If it did, Washington would have said that at any point in his life. He is not Abe Lincoln who did put on record his honesty...

    • @barbiquearea
      @barbiquearea Рік тому +42

      And from what I've heard Washington treated his slaves on Mount Vernon pretty horribly.

    • @ultimatebishoujo29
      @ultimatebishoujo29 Рік тому +13

      I’m really glad this series got brought back too

    • @Fingolfin3423
      @Fingolfin3423 Рік тому +42

      Adam Ruins Everything is incredibly bias and has a strong political narrative to it. I would recommend not watching his content for educational purposes.

    • @maxleroux
      @maxleroux Рік тому +8

      @@Fingolfin3423 You're not wrong. I've noticed that they focus a little to much on topics related to the U.S.A.

  • @brankin421
    @brankin421 Рік тому +807

    I think the answer is obvious:
    We should appreciate the good things Thomas Jefferson did but not idolize him for them.
    We should also condemn the bad things Thomas Jefferson did but not vilify him for them.
    People are complicated. No one is perfect, especially when you look at them from a modern lens.

    • @lizycole8999
      @lizycole8999 Рік тому +30

      a much better conclusion than the actual video

    • @snakey934Snakeybakey
      @snakey934Snakeybakey Рік тому +35

      That's how historical figures should be viewed in general. Unfortunately, we are taught a dumbed-down version of history today. Case in point; ted-ed's video on the Civil War

    • @vincegreen973
      @vincegreen973 Рік тому +9

      We shouldn’t condemn the bad things about Jefferson dude. He’s a hero and we SHOULD idolize him

    • @vincegreen973
      @vincegreen973 Рік тому +1

      @@lizycole8999 not

    • @vincegreen973
      @vincegreen973 Рік тому +1

      @@snakey934Snakeybakey That is NOT how historical figures should be viewed in general

  • @Imperiused
    @Imperiused Рік тому +409

    A new History Versus?! Like your best series? On my birthday? It's too good to be true!

  • @Pillzpop
    @Pillzpop Рік тому +632

    "Well, I hear Mount Rushmore has a problematic past, too!" Now that's a great line for the Judge to end on.

    • @UlulvarCape
      @UlulvarCape Рік тому +13

      Yeah having a history vs for Lincoln and Washington is something I'd like to see, and I have a positive opinion of both so I wanna see how they go at it

    • @MKassa
      @MKassa Рік тому

      No, it's a subversive turd.
      What's "problematic" is socialist history & its millions of deaths that it's caused.
      It's all about subverting a culture from within to destroy it so that tyrants can usher in yet another failed dystopia just like all the rest.
      Afterall, a revolution is just a circle - you always come back to the same problems that every other ideology has failed to correct as well. It's never about "power to the people" but convincing fools to take power from the people & giving more to tyrants & robbers.

    • @vincegreen973
      @vincegreen973 Рік тому +1

      No it isn’t

    • @yetekt6953
      @yetekt6953 Рік тому +3

      @@UlulvarCape Lincoln and Washington aren’t controversial so there won’t be a video on them.

    • @ErminDedicNT
      @ErminDedicNT Рік тому +7

      @@UlulvarCape And here we go again having Roosevelt playing base 😁

  • @bakhtawartaimoorahmed5602
    @bakhtawartaimoorahmed5602 Рік тому +539

    I'm glad they brought this series back. Another thing I am happy to see is that someone finally mentioned the point of measuring historical actions with the measuring stick of today doesn't paint these folks in the best light

    • @ultimatebishoujo29
      @ultimatebishoujo29 Рік тому +1

      I’m with you there

    • @terry_the_terrible
      @terry_the_terrible Рік тому +40

      It's a weasel argument.
      For one thing, if we stopped judging people because they had different values then we would never get anything done. The point of law is to judge with a common measuring stick and Andrew Jackson himself wrote that slavery was "a atrocious blight on society" but he was part of the system, he knew how to benefit from this system and the system rewarded him.
      Secondly, his face is still on the bills and his face is on Mount Rushmore and young kids are still taught about his heroics and his ideals are touted as the holy grail of USA democracy. Which means that he's very much part of modern society.
      But you're right. We should judge him according to both his standards and modern standards and not blindly follow propaganda that was taught to kids since the 1800s.
      And the conclusion should be something like this:
      Andrew Jackson:
      Important president, successful president, popular president*
      *But only for white voters at the time. Had the chance to make a difference but kept quiet so he could stay in power.

    • @andrewclarke7368
      @andrewclarke7368 Рік тому +12

      Applying today's standards is wokism at its worst. Enough already. It's nonsense.

    • @callnight1441
      @callnight1441 Рік тому +15

      Its a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, yes, one should jugde a person by the standards of the time rather the the ones today as many standards are a product of the common perception of morality. On the other, just because something was a standard, doesnt mean its good. You can still be a terrible person, even if the actions you are committing are seen as normal. Certain things, even if legal, are just too horrible to justify.
      F.e., wifebeating was legal for a long time and even in some cases seen as a husbands right. But, not once am i going to forgive someone for doing it, because thats just something you can't justify

    • @liamgavinwells
      @liamgavinwells Рік тому

      I'd say the best course of action is teaching kids that tells of their heroics and injustices from both our point of view and, more importantly, the views of the people in their region and culture at that time. It was sort of like how I learned about Andrew Jackson. He did defy the Congress causing the Trail of Tears and filled his cabinet with yes-men, but he also got rid of the national bank and was the only president to get rid of the national debt. Racism and misinformation aren't only reasons he was on the $20 bill for so long

  • @mangagor
    @mangagor Рік тому +387

    Hold It! As a non-american and not exactly an historian, I would just like to say that I think some of the songs in 1776 and Hamilton with him are really good.

    • @lizbizwiz1238
      @lizbizwiz1238 Рік тому +21

      Oh yeah, those songs are a bang for sure

    • @l.n.3372
      @l.n.3372 Рік тому +39

      They're good, but I wish some people remembered that it's just a musical and as such, fictional. There's a lot the musicals don't cover in history.

    • @SlightyLessEvolved
      @SlightyLessEvolved Рік тому +12

      To borrow from another musical:
      "Elphaba, where I'm from, we believe all sorts of things that aren't true - we call it history.
      A man's called a traitor, or liberator.
      A rich man's a thief, or philanthropist.
      Is one a crusader, or ruthless invader?
      It's all in which label
      Is able to persist.
      There are precious few at ease
      With moral ambiguities,
      So we act as though they don't exist!"

    • @5-1biggiebagextrafries
      @5-1biggiebagextrafries Рік тому +9

      Facts😂😂😂😂 Daveed really helped Jefferson’s PR😂😂😂

    • @PramkLuna
      @PramkLuna Рік тому +9

      Daveed Diggs is one of the best actors in Hamilton

  • @chrisn7986
    @chrisn7986 Рік тому +521

    It's been a while

  • @SirToaster9330
    @SirToaster9330 Рік тому +860

    I like how the lawyer isn't trying to demean Jefferson's deeds he's just trying to explain how he wasn't perfect

    • @goldenvulture6818
      @goldenvulture6818 Рік тому +57

      Nobody's perfect

    • @DragonGoddess18
      @DragonGoddess18 Рік тому +58

      Yeah,a lot of people worship the Founding Fathers and ignore the fact they did anything wrong,much less thought they had unpleasant flaws

    • @night6724
      @night6724 Рік тому +20

      @@DragonGoddess18 They we’re products of their times

    • @MKassa
      @MKassa Рік тому

      @@DragonGoddess18 - No, that's what the socialist, revisionist tyrants are trying to claim - as if they dug up all this "secret", past info themselves to expose their natures...
      As with anything else, you don't want to scar small children with history's unpleasantness so you start out with small facts, then as people get older, they're exposed to more info to form a more complete picture.

    • @lizycole8999
      @lizycole8999 Рік тому +5

      you're being sarcastic, right?

  • @LudicrousTorpedo
    @LudicrousTorpedo Рік тому +176

    It took us 500 years to wait for another History on Trial video...

    • @yourethatmantis5178
      @yourethatmantis5178 Рік тому +11

      I can imagined a History on Trial video 500 years in the future. The judge is a robot, and the two lawyers are Futurama heads in jars.

  • @plume231
    @plume231 Рік тому +548

    Hello, can you make History vs. Woodrow Wilson or History vs. Oliver Cromwell, please! By the way, I learned a lot about Thomas Jefferson, thanks!

    • @Ttegegg
      @Ttegegg Рік тому +20

      Woodrow Wilson isn’t really like by contemporary standards. Ronald regan, that Chilean dictator, and argentinas would be more reasonable. (Oh yea president Marcos exist I guess)

    • @jeffreygao3956
      @jeffreygao3956 Рік тому +21

      I would like History vs…
      Oda Nobunaga
      Richard Lionheart
      Leonidas
      Pericles
      Alexander the Great
      Walt Disney

    • @Username12038
      @Username12038 Рік тому +30

      history vs woodrow wilson would be literally overkill for the defense. like, how do you even defend such a person

    • @Dude-xb3xh
      @Dude-xb3xh Рік тому +2

      Richard the lionheart would be very good because he bankrupted England and almost never stayed in it to rule over it.

    • @thetaaaa
      @thetaaaa Рік тому +16

      I'd love to see a vid about Cromwell!

  • @BelcarrigFarm
    @BelcarrigFarm Рік тому +280

    I'd like to see a history versus on Eamon de Valera. He's quite similar to Jefferson in that he helped found his country but also made many mistakes and is quite controversial

    • @jezalb2710
      @jezalb2710 Рік тому +3

      Very controversial

    • @_TehTJ_
      @_TehTJ_ Рік тому +2

      Irish history is very interesting for me, I hope so too

    • @whideoreviews573
      @whideoreviews573 Рік тому +2

      Oooh yes. VERY much agree on a History vs. de Valera...

    • @mankytoes
      @mankytoes Рік тому +8

      Great shout. Even a lot of Irish nationalists despised de Valera.

    • @antmanatthemoment7233
      @antmanatthemoment7233 Рік тому

      What was so controversial about him? I'm asking genuinely, I don't know

  • @danielarivera4412
    @danielarivera4412 Рік тому +136

    I’m glad Sally was in this video. She really deserves to be recognized.

    • @centurionzen1005
      @centurionzen1005 Рік тому +2

      Hear, hear

    • @bunnybird9342
      @bunnybird9342 Рік тому +17

      Yeah even though her depiction (and children's depictions) were historically inaccurate because she was 3/4 white and her children were 7/8 white

    • @jeffreygao3956
      @jeffreygao3956 Рік тому +2

      @@bunnybird9342 I guess reality is really unrealistic.

    • @slushy711
      @slushy711 Рік тому +3

      i kinda feel like they shouldve at least mentioned that she was only 14 years old, iirc

    • @historywatch-4U
      @historywatch-4U Рік тому +4

      Y'know the evidence for the existence of that relationship is really shabby.

  • @_CrissoN
    @_CrissoN Рік тому +58

    Do everything in your power to ensure this History vs series never comes to an end. One of the best i've seen anywhere, unique and forces us to ask important questions about the past and about past historical figures that are celebrated

    • @jeffreygao3956
      @jeffreygao3956 Рік тому +6

      Plus, the judge's reactions are hilarious!

  • @theeth3242
    @theeth3242 Рік тому +148

    "Even if some people considered him a great man in his time, he doesn't have to be an icon in ours", is a fantastic line about the balance of honoring the figures of the past with contemporary morals

    • @night6724
      @night6724 Рік тому

      You realize blacks and Indians owned slaves too right?

    • @Mimi-mq2wj
      @Mimi-mq2wj Рік тому +2

      he was the prime definition of barking no biting. preached but never did

  • @nebraskaninkansas347
    @nebraskaninkansas347 Рік тому +24

    Actually Jefferson did attempt to end slavery in Virginia and newly acquired NW territory. But was unsuccessful. Yes he was not strong enough in his opposition, but does not mean he didn't hold those ideals.

    • @yellowstarproductions6743
      @yellowstarproductions6743 9 місяців тому

      True

    • @Saurophaganax1931
      @Saurophaganax1931 Місяць тому

      Counter argument: if he really held to those ideals, he would have freed more than just 10 of his 600 slaves. How could he be expected to end slavery in Virginia when he wouldn’t even end it in his own household?

  • @Azerinth
    @Azerinth Рік тому +59

    Glad to see this series again. My favoriter factoid regarding Jefferson is the quote on the Southeast portico of the Jefferson Memorial which refutes the 'Originalism' I feel is too often used today to excuse regressive policies.
    "I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as a civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

    • @vincegreen973
      @vincegreen973 Рік тому +1

      It doesn’t refute anything dude

    • @caelumvaldovinos5318
      @caelumvaldovinos5318 Рік тому +6

      @@vincegreen973 Read that again. He is *literally* saying that his views and policies will become obsolete as history marches on and therefore the documents & laws that were made in his time should be relegated to obsolescence

    • @royalraptorgaming8501
      @royalraptorgaming8501 2 місяці тому

      @@caelumvaldovinos5318 Originalism advocates for reading the constitution as it is and was. making amendments and changing laws to suit changes in circumstances does not conflict with originalism.
      in effect, originalism aims to prevent the misrepresentation of the constitution, which is actively occurring, as words in the English lexicon have their meanings adapted, broadened, and changed. when this happens, a modern individual reading the constitution can and will have a different interpretation of the meaning due to these discrepancies.
      Thus, nothing about that quote from Jefferson contradicts Originalism, unless you somehow think that he's saying its acceptable to misinterpret and misrepresent the constitution he helped make.
      His quote is nothing more than a cautionary warning against the risks of stagnation while clinging to the old way, when the old way may no longer be the right way.

  • @サイゼロ-y2m
    @サイゼロ-y2m Рік тому +87

    I'm a Japanese student and reviewing American history for the Common Test for University Admissions next weekend, so it's exactly timely!

    • @CloroxBleachCompany
      @CloroxBleachCompany Рік тому +5

      Ganbatte friend!

    • @sorban5352
      @sorban5352 Рік тому +2

      Good luck for your Tests and I wish you to succeed on it ! ^^
      (From a French) 🥖🟦⬜🟥

    • @splitfries69
      @splitfries69 Рік тому +3

      good luck

    • @splitfries69
      @splitfries69 Рік тому +1

      @@100c0c they love america

    • @Marsfi16
      @Marsfi16 Рік тому

      Good luck! You can do this!

  • @afrikasmith1049
    @afrikasmith1049 Рік тому +63

    Thomas Jefferson is a prime example of the phrase "If it's only one person who wants to change things for the better then that goal will never come true."

    • @lebarondevalois605
      @lebarondevalois605 Рік тому +3

      Nope. If he did want to change things 500 people would have been a way he could've.

  • @donovansausomeshow1178
    @donovansausomeshow1178 Рік тому +43

    You should History vs Martin Luther! (the monk) Or also History vs Shi Huangdi!
    This is a great and educational series which you should do more often!

  • @onlymoschops3923
    @onlymoschops3923 Рік тому +97

    Hey Ted-ED, as a history geek myself, I really enjoyed this video! :D Loved how you tackled the controversy behind Jefferson.
    By the way, being a Chinese person myself too, do you think you can make a video about the Chinese philosopher Confucius (c. 551 - 479 BC) too? I think he'd be a good candidate. On one side, his philosophy has been credited with achieving peace for ancient China. He's also known for teaching kindness, humaneness, sincerity, and the Golden Rule. He's also known for encouraging education and meritocracy. But on the other side, critics have accused his philosophy of promoting blind obedience, child abuse, and sexism against women. In fact, a lot of intellectuals and Communists hated his guts in the 20th century and accused him of promoting an outdated feudal system that held Chinese society back. And even in the modern day, some critics blame his teachings for producing modern-day issues in East Asia such as a mental health crisis and an outdated education system. Do you think you could tackle that sometime? Thanks!

    • @aaronTGP_3756
      @aaronTGP_3756 Рік тому +8

      Being so influential and with huge positive and negative aspects, he's a perfect candidate for History vs.

    • @curranfrank2854
      @curranfrank2854 Рік тому +6

      Confucius would be an excellent person to do a video on

    • @vincegreen973
      @vincegreen973 Рік тому

      Bruh controversy? No it isn’t. This video is wrong

    • @ryancarter1080
      @ryancarter1080 Рік тому +2

      How could they accuse him of creating an outdated feudal system from over 2000 years ago? Of course its going to be outdated 2,500 years later just about everything from back then is outdated now. That's like blaming the person who invented the first wooden canoe for not inventing a steel engine powered ship with compass and radar, at the time the idea was revolutionary but things change and its up to the people after him to improve, change or discard it, not the man himself.

    • @trungduong4040
      @trungduong4040 9 місяців тому

      that's a great suggestion.

  • @Joshua_Graham2281
    @Joshua_Graham2281 Рік тому +39

    I like this because it’s a place where both points of view can listen to the other without it turning into a screaming match.

    • @GeneralDonato
      @GeneralDonato Рік тому +3

      I hope this comment section will be the same as well.

  • @henrylivingstone2971
    @henrylivingstone2971 Рік тому +37

    I think it’s very difficult to pass judgement on Jefferson on his inaction against slavery whilst president. The state of the union following the revolutionary war was rather shaky. While all the states signed the Declaration of Independence some members of the union were growing concerned with the seemingly endless powers of the central government and the sense of losing autonomy.
    So if Jefferson had tried to abolish slavery during his presidency, it is likely that the union would’ve dissolved. Especially since many states stilled relied on slavery as their primary source of income whether it be direct or indirect. No state would abide by policy changes that would threaten their economic independence.
    So you can’t really blame Jefferson solely for the inaction against slavery.

    • @erozionzeall6371
      @erozionzeall6371 Рік тому

      What's your opinion on Lenin?

    • @henrylivingstone2971
      @henrylivingstone2971 Рік тому +9

      @@erozionzeall6371
      He probably had his heart in the right place in the beginning considering what he saw during the Tsarist regime, political suppression was fairly common and it wasn’t uncommon to see people carted away for speaking ill of the ruling class.
      So he much like many other liberally minded young men and women incensed by the decadent and superfluous upper class grew resentful and bitter, as one rightfully would. However, killing the Tsar and his family was probably not the best move he could’ve done to showcase his humanity though that order was not entirely his own.
      Lenin is a weird character in the sense that while he was a dictator he isn’t a dictator that we would expect. He wasn’t totalitarian, his regime might be totalitarian but the man Lenin certainly was not since not all of his orders were carried out in full. Though he was still the first amongst equals.
      But considering political suppression, state sanctioned executions, and armed conflict was common in the newly minted Soviet Union and this all occurred under Lenin’s jurisdiction it can be reasonably argued that Lenin did not start with bad intentions but eventually succumbed to the temptations of power and the inability to maintain his visions for society without using brutal tactics, the same tactics he criticized the Tsars for.

    • @jackluck2538
      @jackluck2538 Рік тому +3

      I agree he couldn't abolish it, but he could have easily freed his own slaves.

    • @henrylivingstone2971
      @henrylivingstone2971 Рік тому +6

      @@jackluck2538
      I agree. Jefferson of course not without his faults. He clearly could’ve cleared his own stock of slaves had he adhered to his own reservations concerning the institution of slavery by he didn’t. For that he will always be remembered.
      However when it comes to the context in the video casting him as an engaged supporter of slavery and his inability to abolish slavery, I think it takes a little more understanding of the political climate of the US in that time to make an informed opinion.

    • @CJ87317
      @CJ87317 Рік тому +3

      Even freeing some of his slaves would have been difficult for him financially. Jefferson was land rich, but actually always in financial debt. Really, the only reason his estate wasn't repossessed at some point was his fame/stature. He needed the plantation to produce or he would have gone into poverty. Or, he could have sold some/most of his slaves off to get back to even, but that wouldn't exactly endear him to modern audiences either.
      Complicated, but essential, man.

  • @Boman751
    @Boman751 Рік тому +10

    I do love the balance between the rights and wrongs that both sides point out about Jefferson. Both admitting the good, and conceding the flaws of Thomas Jefferson, letting the viewer understand he wasn’t perfect, but he wasn’t a tyrannical figure either. In my view, he was a complicated man in a complicated time. There was so much one man can do, but in the time he lived and what he had to deal with in it, I can say for certain that he has done much more good than bad in his life. Could he have done better on some issues? Sure, absolutely. But in a time where so much was against him, he fought tooth and nail to do the best he can with whatever he had and help granted many new freedoms and rights for many people. And he was without a doubt, one of the most important figures in American history and one of the most impactful founding fathers.

    • @bunnybird9342
      @bunnybird9342 Рік тому +3

      I agree with you 100%. Thomas Jefferson was very flawed and honestly does deserve all of the criticism he gets but I still have lots of respect for the guy and I agree with him on lots of things.

  • @oryoruk
    @oryoruk Рік тому +8

    I think we are overlooking the most relevant contribution of Jefferson, which is injecting the idea of equality into the founding. The same text, the Declaration of Independence, was tremendously influential in both the movement to abolish slavery, and the civil rights movement.

    • @sisjsjwjwjsjsmjsjssj6285
      @sisjsjwjwjsjsmjsjssj6285 6 місяців тому

      No, no we’re not overlooking that. He said those words but didn’t believe them completly; he didn’t consider slaves to be people, and thus didn’t believe the rights of people established in the Declaration of Independence applies to them.
      Also, he didn’t invent those ideas. Plenty of enlightenment thinkers, most notably John Locke, were a great inspiration to Jefferson. Jefferson’s whole rights of life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness were a near replica of Locke’s ideas of life liberty and property. If Jefferson didn’t write those ideas, they still would’ve existed.

    • @CausticSpace
      @CausticSpace 5 місяців тому

      @@sisjsjwjwjsjsmjsjssj6285massive freudian slip when you said “didn’t believe slaves were people” instead of saying african-amercians

    • @royalraptorgaming8501
      @royalraptorgaming8501 2 місяці тому

      @@CausticSpace that's not a slip, slaves are social class.

  • @urphakeandgey6308
    @urphakeandgey6308 11 місяців тому +5

    One thing I find interesting about American history is how unapologetic it is. Most other countries have long histories and it's very romanticized. After all, most leaders of other countries only had to directly deal with "their people," whereas American leaders had to deal with multiple ethnicities and races from the get go... And they completely fumbled it despite many of them being conscious of their own hypocrisy.
    Americans like to point out their own shortcomings and go "look how far we've come." Most other countries would rather pretend it never happened.

    • @randomcenturion7264
      @randomcenturion7264 9 місяців тому +3

      It's one of the things I love about the USA. We will happily cheer "USA No 1" to celebrate, but when it comes down to it, we know we are far, FAR from perfect and that the best we can hope for is trying to do a little better each generation.

    • @bunnybird9342
      @bunnybird9342 8 місяців тому +3

      The "greatest country on Earth" doesn't exist. Countries shouldn't compete with each other to see who is the best, but rather each country should try to be the best it can be.

  • @markvincentbonachita8950
    @markvincentbonachita8950 Рік тому +55

    "Can we judge historical figures by modern standards?"
    That's powerful.

    • @highcouncil1302
      @highcouncil1302 Рік тому +4

      I would say no but the more closer to modern times they are it's easier to do so

    • @Axelgear2006
      @Axelgear2006 Рік тому +16

      We can, yes. But we don't have to. We can judge them by historical standards too, of Jefferson's contemporary Thomas Paine. Or, heck, why not judge them by the standards of the slaves he kept and ordered whipped and beaten? Can we judge him by their standards?

    • @Atleastihavemydog
      @Atleastihavemydog Рік тому +2

      Right. Do better is our motto.

  • @alejandrosakai1744
    @alejandrosakai1744 Рік тому +17

    History vs. Ideas:
    -Julius Caesar.
    -Ramesses II.
    -Caligula.
    -Hannibal Barca.
    -Julia Maesa.
    -Pericles of Athens
    -Simón Bolívar.
    -Kösem Sultana.
    -Cyrus the Great.
    -Alexander the Great.
    -Kublai Khan.
    -Pocahontas.

    • @stegotyranno4206
      @stegotyranno4206 Рік тому +3

      Cyrus was a pure soul never did anything wrong

    • @awake6009
      @awake6009 Рік тому +1

      they already did a History vs Augustus, and covered the assassination of Julius Caesar in a separate video

    • @alejandrosakai1744
      @alejandrosakai1744 Рік тому +1

      @@awake6009 but never about his conquest of Gaul or his conflict with Pompey!

    • @awake6009
      @awake6009 Рік тому +1

      @@alejandrosakai1744 I know, just saying it's unlikely they'd get around to Julius Caesar any time soon

    • @pauselab5569
      @pauselab5569 7 місяців тому

      @@alejandrosakai1744both were very well justified. The Gauls revolted for literally no reason despite Cesar and Labienus being very kind to them since they garrisoned at local tribes. Many swore to help the Romans but ended up betraying them to join Vercingetorix. His conflict with Pompey was also well justified. Pompey was trying to remove him from power in Gaul in direct confrontation with a law passed a decade ago. He then refused mutual disarmament and so Cesar was forced to return to Rome.

  • @carlstawicki1915
    @carlstawicki1915 Рік тому +11

    “Well, nobody’s perfect.”

  • @TIME12308
    @TIME12308 Рік тому +16

    Next History vs Otto von Bismarck please.
    Thank you

  • @Porthos240
    @Porthos240 Рік тому +22

    Seriously missed these. No.3 is definitely a tough one.

  • @thewingedhussar4188
    @thewingedhussar4188 Рік тому +14

    Their is also one context they forgot to mention.
    The founding fathers legitimately thought slavery was going to end naturally

    • @sisjsjwjwjsjsmjsjssj6285
      @sisjsjwjwjsjsmjsjssj6285 6 місяців тому +1

      That doesn’t change the fact that most of them owned slaves themselves. I can get why they didn’t want to do anything in the government to stop slavery - it would’ve prevented the US from being able to form, and they felt it was going to end anyway. But if they did actually see slavery as wrong, they could’ve at least freed their own slaves or something like that…

    • @thomasallister3446
      @thomasallister3446 6 місяців тому +1

      @@sisjsjwjwjsjsmjsjssj6285Jefferson was deeply in debt throughout his life. Slaves were considered valuable property and a significant part of his wealth. Freeing them would have meant a substantial financial loss.

    • @ej28
      @ej28 6 місяців тому +2

      @@thomasallister3446 Yeah a bunch of people would be freed, but what about his bank account?

  • @TheRevanchrist
    @TheRevanchrist Рік тому +9

    been a while since the last case. I love this format when analyzing controversial icons in history.

  • @joed7547
    @joed7547 Рік тому +10

    Thanks for bringing this back, as an Aussie going into the histories of James Cook and Lachlan Macquarie, would be interesting, some great deeds, and absolute atrocious actions, (such as the hanging of aboriginal's on trees for Macquarie's case.

  • @Hellysal
    @Hellysal Рік тому +11

    I like the question at the end - can we judge historical figures by modern standards? The answer is - yes AND no. It's important to realize in what times they were living in to try understanding their reasons and actions. But it's also important to notice all the flaws in them so to not put all their views on the pedestal as an example for future generations.

  • @missshaolina7286
    @missshaolina7286 Рік тому +7

    It’s so awesome to see this series come back!

  • @GG1Productions
    @GG1Productions Рік тому +28

    I've missed this series! Fingers crossed for History v. Ronald Reagan!

    • @rimfire8217
      @rimfire8217 Рік тому

      A man who has a bipolar lagacy.

  • @cormorantcolors
    @cormorantcolors Рік тому +22

    I can’t believe I’ve never watched this series before, it’s such an interesting way to look at these historical debates! I’ll be sure to catch any future episodes.

    • @boymeetworlf3433
      @boymeetworlf3433 Рік тому +1

      Omg this so nice to watch I don't hate Jefferson he did some bad things but nobody perfect we need to look at their historical significance than morals

    • @bunnybird9342
      @bunnybird9342 Рік тому

      @@boymeetworlf3433 I don't hate him either but tbh I really think he had no self-awareness

  • @thematthew761
    @thematthew761 Рік тому +7

    Jefferson had many personal problems, but he still is one of my favorite historical figures of the time.

  • @aidanrogers4438
    @aidanrogers4438 Рік тому +13

    Glad to see another video from this series! History vs. Saladin would be an interesting one to do in the future.

  • @Soundwaves-fi8dn
    @Soundwaves-fi8dn Рік тому +6

    "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson

  • @grovercleavland2698
    @grovercleavland2698 Рік тому +8

    Should we judge past leaders and hero’s by modern standards? No. If we did that we would run out of people to look up to.

    • @jeffreygao3956
      @jeffreygao3956 Рік тому +3

      But they shouldn't be absolved of guilt either.

  • @HereWeald
    @HereWeald Рік тому +11

    This series is finally back.

  • @bunnybird9342
    @bunnybird9342 Рік тому +6

    Videos I would like to see:
    History vs Winston Churchill
    History vs Confucius
    History vs Mother Teresa
    History vs Gandhi
    History vs Robespierre
    History vs Huey Long
    History vs Malcolm X
    History vs Yuri Kochiyama
    History vs Catherine the Great
    History vs Karl Marx
    History vs Mustafa Ataturk

  • @WeeWeeJumbo
    @WeeWeeJumbo Рік тому +17

    Judge went "Pardon?!" and I guffawed

  • @themuffinman8936
    @themuffinman8936 Рік тому +14

    I would love to see you do History vs Huey Long, he’s a very important figure in American history and very contentious to this day.

  • @rickseiden1
    @rickseiden1 Рік тому +18

    This information is what I think of when people say that we need to bring the country back to what the founding fathers intended. Especially when those people are non-white women or women in general. There are Congresswomen who say this often, and all I can think is, "The founding fathers didn't want you voting, let alone holding office. You really want to go back there?"

  • @nathanpaulbonzon1670
    @nathanpaulbonzon1670 Рік тому +5

    Can you do a video of History vs. Alexander the Great please, I always wanted to see what was Alexander's life and background

  • @jarekwrzosek2048
    @jarekwrzosek2048 Рік тому +5

    You gotta make one about Emperor Nero: A promising, strong leader with artistic soul, or a matricidal tyrant?

  • @jepong1768
    @jepong1768 Рік тому +2

    when the world needed this series the most, it come back still as ever great

  • @micow9951
    @micow9951 Рік тому +7

    I'd love a history vs Marie Antoinette video this series is great

  • @aaronbeamesderfer2389
    @aaronbeamesderfer2389 Рік тому +5

    Even though Jefferson was contradiction. We still have to remember he did help found a country whose basis of ideals, that up until that point had not happened on a grand scale. And now those ideals have shaped the modern world

  • @cwolvie
    @cwolvie Рік тому +9

    As Frederick Douglass said in his Epic Rap Battle with TJ: "Man, you did some good things; I ain't denying your fame/I'm just saying they need to put an asterisk next to your name!"

    • @bunnybird9342
      @bunnybird9342 Рік тому +2

      Epic Rap Battles of History so cringe.
      Also IRL Frederick Douglass didn't hate Thomas Jefferson

  • @junayedbostami
    @junayedbostami 2 місяці тому +2

    If we don’t judge historic figures by modern standards then how are we supposed to know if we’ve grown as a civilisation.

  • @weizhanghao5126
    @weizhanghao5126 Рік тому +8

    This is an insane series; hope to see more of it. Thanks TED-Ed!

  • @kenan511
    @kenan511 Рік тому +3

    Do Woodrow Wilson! That guy has done way more damage than what most of us realize!

  • @ebonysoldier
    @ebonysoldier Рік тому +13

    Epic Rap Battles of History said it best. You (Thomas Jefferson) let freedom ring, but never picked up the phone" - Fredrick Douglas erb

    • @pisces2569
      @pisces2569 9 місяців тому

      Followed by the second best “you did some good things. I ain’t denying your fame. I’m just saying they need to put an asterisk next to your name.”

  • @asperRader
    @asperRader Рік тому +2

    I'll admit to coming into many of these videos with an opinion already formed and set, but it is good to figure out what the opposing side thinks, what their arguments are. Please continue this series!

  • @whideoreviews573
    @whideoreviews573 Рік тому +3

    I hope this can become a frequent series again. Goodness knows how many American presidents probably warrant their own "History vs." videos.

  • @claraallisandra9135
    @claraallisandra9135 Рік тому +4

    I am so glad the series is back!
    If you don’t mind could you put Harry Truman on trial?

  • @nicolasgarciagallardo3548
    @nicolasgarciagallardo3548 Рік тому +3

    It makes no sense to judge people with todays standards, its like saying that sumerians where incredibly undevelopped because they had no cars or constitutions, its just absurd

  • @りんご-n2u5b
    @りんご-n2u5b Рік тому

    I am a high school student in Japan.
    And I am learning English.
    So, if I may be wrong grammar.,I am sorry.
    I appreciate learning English with this channel ‼️❤

  • @amethystsavage4018
    @amethystsavage4018 Рік тому +6

    Love it how the music just stopped after he said “flesh and blood”, almost like the orchestra was dumbstruck to hear that he had secret children with his slaves

  • @RealFoxTrotFox
    @RealFoxTrotFox Рік тому +16

    I like videos like this. We get to see the bad side of historical figures as well as the good, so we can understand how and why they acted and what they did

  • @FortyJester
    @FortyJester Рік тому +4

    Im so happy you guys brought this series back!!

  • @Meow_Zedong_1949
    @Meow_Zedong_1949 Рік тому +2

    History vs. Josip Borz Tito
    The man is often known as the good dictator but still a dictator. He was critical to keeping Yugoslavia together, but the country fell into ethnic violence almost immediately after his death.

  • @Mackyle-Wotring
    @Mackyle-Wotring Рік тому +5

    I am glad that you brought back the series. Can you do a History vs Jossip Tito episode?

  • @TheMedicatedArtist
    @TheMedicatedArtist Рік тому +2

    I was hoping this series wasn’t dead. Fingers crossed that we get a History vs. Robespierre video.

  • @1.4142
    @1.4142 Рік тому +4

    I like that this video series doesn't just present multiple arguments, but steel-mans both sides instead of strawmaning one side.

    • @night6724
      @night6724 Рік тому

      It could’ve mentioned how blacks and Indians owned slaves

    • @sindhubhadarge3014
      @sindhubhadarge3014 Рік тому

      What does ironmanning mean?

  • @dylangergutierrez
    @dylangergutierrez Рік тому +8

    This is a fun and engaging framing of historical figures.
    I think that the only utility for assigning value to the actions of people from the past is so we can learn and have their choices inform our own. For that reason, I think it is useful to apply our own standards to them, not to demonize people like Jefferson, but to reflect on how we would like to act if in similar circumstances, and what that might affect.
    Jefferson is dead, and making judgement calls (good or bad) about his character is only useful for deciding whether we want to be like him. Of course, it's reductive to try and assign the label of "good" or "bad" to any person's whole life.

  • @lonehiker6648
    @lonehiker6648 Рік тому +6

    are we really applying modern ideas and values upon people 300 years ago??

    • @MutantMonke
      @MutantMonke Рік тому +1

      Slavery was bad forever. Many civilizations millennia old were against it, so there's no reason for one to think a person supporting slavery was not wrong.

    • @JacobHimmelhaver-m8g
      @JacobHimmelhaver-m8g 4 місяці тому +1

      Try it with man from 3 thousand years ago.

  • @johnmilner6419
    @johnmilner6419 5 місяців тому +1

    At 1:38, in the draft version of the Declaration of Independence, in The Ordinance of 1784, and in the Northwest Ordinance, Jefferson tried to ban slavery.

  • @AyubuKK
    @AyubuKK Рік тому +8

    The founders saw the contradiction of having slaves in a free constitutional republic but they didn’t want to get rid of slavery in fear that it would start a Civil War, but the Civil War over slavery happened anyway. So it was probably still best to have gotten rid of it when the US was founded.

    • @theotherohlourdespadua1131
      @theotherohlourdespadua1131 Рік тому +1

      Not really gonna happen when the Constitution was made. Slaves up until its abolition in 1865 where huge investments to those who employ them and often constitutes more than half a plantation's worth. Their retention despite their existence bearing glaring hypocrisy of their political values wasn't driven by ideology but by economics: unless the US has a large boatload of free cash lying around when the Constitution was made in 1787, the slaveowners can be persuaded to abandon it... as long as they got compensated for it...

    • @Spaghetter813
      @Spaghetter813 Рік тому +2

      Most also wrongly believed that slavery will die out with time.

    • @watching7721
      @watching7721 Рік тому

      The founding presidents did kick the issue down the road partially because they feared a Civil War would destroy the country, especially so early in its history

    • @CJ87317
      @CJ87317 Рік тому

      Well, the Revolution couldn't have been won if the Colonies went their different ways during the war. And if the States had split up after just defeating the British, it's likely the Red Coats would have reconquered the country.

  • @samwithsmalleyes5805
    @samwithsmalleyes5805 Рік тому +2

    Oh my god, I did not even know ted-ed made these kinds of series, now I need more!!!!

  • @pbh9195
    @pbh9195 Рік тому +3

    Ahh it's been a while since released one of these. Always love this series

  • @AYVYN
    @AYVYN 5 місяців тому +1

    Instead of using criticism to omit history, I believe one should first reach the intellectual level to assess it on an equal level; which many have not achieved with Thomas Jefferson, including myself.

  • @jamesgolightly5320
    @jamesgolightly5320 Рік тому +4

    Jefferson is an icon, we cannot judge through our modern lens.

  • @kingkdg3262
    @kingkdg3262 Рік тому +2

    I hope the series continues I'm just way too invested in this

  • @trentonpaul6376
    @trentonpaul6376 Рік тому +8

    Hello everybody! I hope you're having a great day 💫💫

  • @craigthompson3739
    @craigthompson3739 Рік тому +4

    Should Jefferson be judged with modern values? That is the argument of this entire video. Presentism is a ridiculous way to approach history. Judging history is not understanding it.

  • @swayne1441
    @swayne1441 Рік тому +3

    Jefferson is easily the best leader in American history. I don't even think it's close.

    • @bunnybird9342
      @bunnybird9342 Рік тому +3

      He's one of the best but not the number one best imo

  • @snakey934Snakeybakey
    @snakey934Snakeybakey Рік тому +1

    1:39 Nooo (I can't believe I have to do the attorney's job for him here) Thomas Jefferson was unable to manumit his slaves because slaves were considered to be part of the estate. They were part of the estate when Jefferson purchased it, and his seeing it up close was what let him to decry it as a moral wrong, at a time when hardly anyone in the Western hemisphere felt that way.
    The reason he was only able to manumit a relatively small amount of them was due to the fact that they were considered part of the estate, and while he technically owned at the estate he did not own the mortgages on them, which means that the ones he did free; he had to do so at Great personal cost to himself.
    Also, as governor of Virginia he tried to create incentives for plantation owners when they could, and that shtick about "no more inherited wealth" that the attorney talks about was done SPECIFICALLY for that process. He also gets the separation of church and state wrong. Jefferson actually meant the state should not interfere with religion. Not the other way around.

  • @nolanbaglietto1430
    @nolanbaglietto1430 Рік тому +6

    Hiya Ted ed, I am from Gibraltar 🇬🇮 and since we were British in 1704, we had (and still have) a lot of political problems from Spain 🇪🇸, especially during the days of the dictator Francisco Franco. I was wondering if you could do History vs Francisco Franco.

  • @GOODYGOODGOOD789
    @GOODYGOODGOOD789 6 місяців тому +5

    2:10 Just because an issue is being avoided doesn't mean that the reforms don't mean anything.
    2:51 He didn't have anything to do with that act.
    3:15 The South was going to use any excuse to succeed whether it be something from Thomas Jefferson or anyone else, they just wanted to use whatever excuse they could use, and if Jefferson never said that then they would have just used something else to try and justify succeeding.
    3:46 If you use that against Jefferson you also have to use that against every president from John Adams to Abraham Lincoln (Washington doesn't count because he was running unopposed).
    4:16 Because there was no way to stop slavery from taking over in parts of Louisiana, I'm not trying to defend slavery but it was impossible for it not to spread.
    I think this is the worst History vs. video that there is. First, they bring up the race and slavery issue in places where it isn't even relevant and isn't even a counterargument, and second, they don't bring up a bunch of other ways they could've criticized Jefferson, how about the Embargo Act, how about the fact that he was a free speech advocate but tried to impeach a Supreme court justice (Samuel Chase) for having different political opinions than him, how about the fact that some people (both when he was alive and right now) claim that he killed his political hatchet (James T. Callender), because he wanted to testify what he and Jefferson did.

  • @seniorvoltaic3212
    @seniorvoltaic3212 Рік тому +1

    In my opinion, we should admire the aspects of a historical individual that are positive but condemn aspects of them that are negative. We shouldn't be completely positioned on only one side of the argument.

  • @pouya8221
    @pouya8221 Рік тому +5

    I love this series, so insightful and fun to watch. Thank you for making more!

  • @samruinseverything
    @samruinseverything Рік тому +1

    History on Trial: *uploads*
    Everyone: Its been 84 years...

  • @TIME12308
    @TIME12308 Рік тому +14

    I love this series keep it up TED :)

  • @wmschooley1234
    @wmschooley1234 Рік тому +8

    While Thomas Jefferson was not a man without flaws, he was a man of his age. This TED misses the mark. His actions and inactions MUST be judged by the standards of his time and NOT the morals and standards of the 21st century.

    • @nicholas.schlabach
      @nicholas.schlabach Рік тому

      Agreed. I love this series, but most of the bad things Jefforson did were common on his time. For example, the lawyer brought up how Jefferson thought blacks were intellectual inferors. However at the time that was simply considered a fact of nature, like how we see people with Down Syndrome (equal in spirit but not IQ). Aside from his personal owneship of slaves, I really feel the other arguments against Jefferson here are strained. Maybe a spin off series in "missed opprotunities" is needed?

  • @jessicajayes8326
    @jessicajayes8326 Рік тому +5

    Jefferson in Hamilton: What did I miss?

  • @DracoTheVish137
    @DracoTheVish137 6 місяців тому +1

    This video was so helpful for a presentation I've been working on.

  • @edwinjoy3932
    @edwinjoy3932 Рік тому +3

    0:37 Objection your honor... US is not Democratic Republic; US is Constitutional Republic.

  • @daveteves
    @daveteves Рік тому +1

    I"m so happy this series is back!

  • @fernsong8558
    @fernsong8558 Рік тому +5

    I loved this series, hope to see more in the future!

  • @2167PhillipM
    @2167PhillipM 3 місяці тому +1

    As one New York politician said “your not going to find a perfect person back in those days” and that’s how we should look at president Jefferson

  • @grovercleavland2698
    @grovercleavland2698 Рік тому +5

    It’s been a while since this series was updated. I’m so glad you guys decided to continue it.
    For your next addition to the series may I suggest History vs Francisco Franco? He was was easily one of the most controversial leaders in Spanish history. Maybe even in the history of the world. He did a lot of good and a lot of bad during his time. He’s the perfect historical character for a series like this.

  • @vicenzostella1390
    @vicenzostella1390 Рік тому +1

    I think a History vs Dom Predo II would be a good one. He is considered to be one of Brazil’s best rulers, and yet even he made some mistakes. Though, ironically, he ruled the country better than some modern presidents… and he was 14!

  • @dimamatat5548
    @dimamatat5548 4 місяці тому +4

    We need History vs Hamilton to balance it out.

  • @williamsurname4669
    @williamsurname4669 Рік тому

    I've been waiting for 9 months, and I'll happily wait another 9 if necessary. These are great.

  • @lucavalerio3336
    @lucavalerio3336 Рік тому +5

    Please do a History vs Getulio Vargas or Juan Peron. The latin american populists of the 20th century are really interesting figures.