It was not only Hindi that was Sanskritized. Malayalam and Bengali were equally or more Sanskritized in the process of making them a modern written language. Muslim speakers of those languages does not seem to have much resentment about this supposed Savarnisation. In fact Bangladesh was formed in defense of Savarnised Bengali. This discussion though lengthy is more focussed on those parts that can be interpreted to bolster 'progressive' politics. A lot more could have been discussed if this discussion was meant to be just historical.
As a Indian from south I say because of the URDU words in Hindi language is being used because of this main reason why Indians from south can’t understand at all . Indians from north need to use pure Hindi which has Sanskrit version which will help to communicate with the people even with the dhravidian languages. Please use pure Hindi and stop using Urdu vocabulary in the Hindi language if people really want exterminate the north vs south divided, Urdu vocabulary needed to be stoped in the conversation.
I completely agree with this view. Marathi speakers also have the same issue. Marathi was sanskritized during the reign of Chhatrapati Shivaji, under his orders. The common Marathi we speak is full of Sanskrit words. Hindi is full of Persian / Arabic.
We Bengalis have the same problem. While we understand 80 percent of pure Hindi we cannot understand urduised Hindi as spoken in the private media channels.
The so-called “Urdu” words aren’t even “Urdu” in origin. They’re either derived from Persian/Arabic words or are just Persian/Arabic words themselves. Urdu is the Perso-Arabized consolidation of North Indian languages. Hindi is the Sanskritized reclamation and consolidation of Urdu.
Superb conversation. It was a joy to hear Mr Alok Rai eloquently articulate his analysis of linguistic history of India from 1857 to today. I learnt so much listening to the conversation. Thank you
This person has done well to highlight the issue. His book हिन्दी राष्ट्रवाद is also worth reading. But there's a serious problem. Actually the Hindiwallahs snd Urduwallahs both wanted to target English and European languages, especially English and the incoming Westernization because of English. The division was neither "created" by the British (they never had that level of scholarship in Indic languages to be able to do so) nor by Hindu or Muslim "nationalists". It happened mainly due to the script only. And what happened was actually fantastic. एक से भले दो ।
Official Urdu in Pakistan uses a lot of Persianized vocabulary just as official Hindi in India uses a lot of Sanskritized vocabulary. The language used by the common person in Pakistan and in North India is Hindustani (whether you call it Urdu or Hindi)
It is ironic that nationalism based on religion led to turning one language (Hindustani) into two (Hindi and Urdu). This was of course accelerated by Partition and Pakistan making Urdu the "national language" (qaumi zabaan). If the "enemy" nation has made Urdu the national language, then it is inevitable that Urdu will suffer in India. Even today, the language of the average person in both countries is "Hindustani". Pakistanis watch Bollywood ("Hindi" movies) without subtitles and can understand almost everything. As Professor Rai points out, language and script are not the same thing. Thus, linguists consider "Hindi" and "Urdu" to be two registers of the same language that are written in different scripts. As another example, Punjabi remains the same language whether written in Gurmukhi (India) or Shahmukhi (Pakistan).
@@parjanyashukla176 "Hindustan" is a Persian word. It's what the Persians called the land beyond the Indus. You may be right that the British are the ones who came up with the term "Hindustani" for Urdu-Hindi but I would be surprised if the Persians were not already calling the language by that name.
@@kabiraltaf I care two hoots about what ignorant outsiders opine about this issue. This is the language of UP and not Mashhad or Manchester. Bengalis or Punjabis have nothing to do with it let alone Iranians or British.
@@parjanyashukla176 Urdu (or Hindustani) certainly developed in UP. However, no one can deny that two of the most important Urdu poets of the twentieth century (Iqbal and Faiz) were Punjabi. Also, given that Urdu is Pakistan's national language and 50% of Pakistanis are Punjabi, I'd say Punjabis have a lot to do with it.
@@kabiraltaf Well if you're Punjabi you're already a burden on the planet and obviously on Madar-e-Hind. The planet could do well without you soul-seller half-humans. Urdu? 😂 Urdu became Uraddi but it couldn't civilize the junglee Pathan or Punjabi. This holds irrespective of whether you're Hindu, Muslim or Sikh.
A totally false history. Hindi was developed in the Fort William College in Calcutta by the Bengali scholars of Sanskrit in 1800. They removed most of the Urdu words from Hindustani to create Hindi and also took Dev Nagari script. The language was further developed in Varanasi and Patna in the late 19 th century. The author is ignorant about the contribution of the Fort William College which had a Hindi department .
It is a request to the two speakers, please make the national language of Pākistān as Punjābī. Because Punjābī is the mother tongue of 45% population of Pākistān. Please ask Pākistān to stop using Urdu as their national language which is spoken only by around 8% of the population of Pākistān. The uniqueness of a language is determined by its verbs and pronouns. Both Hindi and Urdu have exactly similar pronouns and verbs. You can never change the verbs and pronouns in a language. 99% verbs of both Hindi and Urdu come from Samskritam and Praakritam. This clearly shows that the Hindi language of Delhi Āgrā Meerut region before the arrival of Islām in Bhāratam split into two separate languages. One became Hindi and other became Urdu. But the original language was born in Bhāratam much before the arrival of Islām in Bhāratam and has nothing to do with Islām. That language belongs only to the Hindus of Delhi Āgrā Meerut region which was called as Hindavi Kshetra.
what is your - both of you, problems ? we are all Indians , wants to unify and contribute positively to nation building. we are happy that more and more present generation of indian youth are so happy to speak at least 3 or 4 langauges !!! which enhances and endows them with intelligence concepts, and thinkk better than a person who knows just one language. Do not introduce your own divisive agenda and keep people apart, think as adversaries ( which these guys are exploiting ). what is your problem, if you can learn English with an air of superiority/imperialism, you can learn hindi with much more ease - becoz there is lot of commonality in culture,in language.
It was not only Hindi that was Sanskritized.
Malayalam and Bengali were equally or more Sanskritized in the process of making them a modern written language.
Muslim speakers of those languages does not seem to have much resentment about this supposed Savarnisation. In fact Bangladesh was formed in defense of Savarnised Bengali.
This discussion though lengthy is more focussed on those parts that can be interpreted to bolster 'progressive' politics. A lot more could have been discussed if this discussion was meant to be just historical.
Because those regions were not the centres of power in the Islamic period.
Mansionbybeach “Savarnised” languages?
As a Indian from south I say because of the URDU words in Hindi language is being used because of this main reason why Indians from south can’t understand at all .
Indians from north need to use pure Hindi which has Sanskrit version which will help to communicate with the people even with the dhravidian languages.
Please use pure Hindi and stop using Urdu vocabulary in the Hindi language if people really want exterminate the north vs south divided, Urdu vocabulary needed to be stoped in the conversation.
I completely agree with this view. Marathi speakers also have the same issue. Marathi was sanskritized during the reign of Chhatrapati Shivaji, under his orders. The common Marathi we speak is full of Sanskrit words. Hindi is full of Persian / Arabic.
As an Indian from North, I agree with you, and I often try to use pure hindi words like Prateek, Darshata, apeksha, prayog etc,,,,,
We Bengalis have the same problem. While we understand 80 percent of pure Hindi we cannot understand urduised Hindi as spoken in the private media channels.
The so-called “Urdu” words aren’t even “Urdu” in origin. They’re either derived from Persian/Arabic words or are just Persian/Arabic words themselves. Urdu is the Perso-Arabized consolidation of North Indian languages. Hindi is the Sanskritized reclamation and consolidation of Urdu.
It is not really possible, nor is it needed
Punjabi uses Gurmukhi script but the Punjabi muslims in Pakistan use same script as urdu. So same language different scripts and different religions.
Superb conversation. It was a joy to hear Mr Alok Rai eloquently articulate his analysis of linguistic history of India from 1857 to today. I learnt so much listening to the conversation. Thank you
This person has done well to highlight the issue. His book हिन्दी राष्ट्रवाद is also worth reading.
But there's a serious problem. Actually the Hindiwallahs snd Urduwallahs both wanted to target English and European languages, especially English and the incoming Westernization because of English. The division was neither "created" by the British (they never had that level of scholarship in Indic languages to be able to do so) nor by Hindu or Muslim "nationalists". It happened mainly due to the script only.
And what happened was actually fantastic. एक से भले दो ।
When you watch Pakistan news channels, you don't understand many words although you get the gist. Hindi has a lot of sanskrit words.
Official Urdu in Pakistan uses a lot of Persianized vocabulary just as official Hindi in India uses a lot of Sanskritized vocabulary. The language used by the common person in Pakistan and in North India is Hindustani (whether you call it Urdu or Hindi)
Mr. Alok Rai is interested in his opinion rather facts.
please present the facts then..
@@sampuspitakumarajiva8930
Where are you from?
@@sampuspitakumarajiva8930
Who are you exactly and from where, commenting on this?
It is ironic that nationalism based on religion led to turning one language (Hindustani) into two (Hindi and Urdu). This was of course accelerated by Partition and Pakistan making Urdu the "national language" (qaumi zabaan). If the "enemy" nation has made Urdu the national language, then it is inevitable that Urdu will suffer in India. Even today, the language of the average person in both countries is "Hindustani". Pakistanis watch Bollywood ("Hindi" movies) without subtitles and can understand almost everything. As Professor Rai points out, language and script are not the same thing. Thus, linguists consider "Hindi" and "Urdu" to be two registers of the same language that are written in different scripts. As another example, Punjabi remains the same language whether written in Gurmukhi (India) or Shahmukhi (Pakistan).
The term "Hindustani" is British coinage with no precedent.
@@parjanyashukla176 "Hindustan" is a Persian word. It's what the Persians called the land beyond the Indus. You may be right that the British are the ones who came up with the term "Hindustani" for Urdu-Hindi but I would be surprised if the Persians were not already calling the language by that name.
@@kabiraltaf
I care two hoots about what ignorant outsiders opine about this issue. This is the language of UP and not Mashhad or Manchester.
Bengalis or Punjabis have nothing to do with it let alone Iranians or British.
@@parjanyashukla176 Urdu (or Hindustani) certainly developed in UP. However, no one can deny that two of the most important Urdu poets of the twentieth century (Iqbal and Faiz) were Punjabi. Also, given that Urdu is Pakistan's national language and 50% of Pakistanis are Punjabi, I'd say Punjabis have a lot to do with it.
@@kabiraltaf
Well if you're Punjabi you're already a burden on the planet and obviously on Madar-e-Hind. The planet could do well without you soul-seller half-humans.
Urdu? 😂
Urdu became Uraddi but it couldn't civilize the junglee Pathan or Punjabi.
This holds irrespective of whether you're Hindu, Muslim or Sikh.
varghese K george is a horrible presenter asking the same questions again and again and struggling to frame questions.
A totally false history. Hindi was developed in the Fort William College in Calcutta by the Bengali scholars of Sanskrit in 1800. They removed most of the Urdu words from Hindustani to create Hindi and also took Dev Nagari script. The language was further developed in Varanasi and Patna in the late 19 th century. The author is ignorant about the contribution of the Fort William College which had a Hindi department .
What he said is not "false" but incomplete.
It is a request to the two speakers, please make the national language of Pākistān as Punjābī. Because Punjābī is the mother tongue of 45% population of Pākistān. Please ask Pākistān to stop using Urdu as their national language which is spoken only by around 8% of the population of Pākistān.
The uniqueness of a language is determined by its verbs and pronouns. Both Hindi and Urdu have exactly similar pronouns and verbs. You can never change the verbs and pronouns in a language. 99% verbs of both Hindi and Urdu come from Samskritam and Praakritam. This clearly shows that the Hindi language of Delhi Āgrā Meerut region before the arrival of Islām in Bhāratam split into two separate languages. One became Hindi and other became Urdu. But the original language was born in Bhāratam much before the arrival of Islām in Bhāratam and has nothing to do with Islām. That language belongs only to the Hindus of Delhi Āgrā Meerut region which was called as Hindavi Kshetra.
Your analysis is 90% correct except the last bit.
What existed before the Sultanate was not really a "prestigious" dialect at all.
what is your - both of you, problems ? we are all Indians , wants to unify and contribute positively to nation building. we are happy that more and more present generation of indian youth are so happy to speak at least 3 or 4 langauges !!! which enhances and endows them with intelligence concepts, and thinkk better than a person who knows just one language. Do not introduce your own divisive agenda and keep people apart, think as adversaries ( which these guys are exploiting ). what is your problem, if you can learn English with an air of superiority/imperialism, you can learn hindi with much more ease - becoz there is lot of commonality in culture,in language.