This was pretty great. I enjoyed them "in universe" look at the lore. Its sometimes easy to forget how unusual the WoLs/Scions knowledge base is in the world of Eorzia.
Most residents of the Source probably don't want to know that their problems stem from some giant crystals that were brought in to existence by similar means to he Primald that are always threatening to destroy their homes, or that every major apocalyptic event was set in motion by a group of asshole mass murderers who want to go back to before the world's were divided by repeating genocide because they don't view everyone who isn't them as people and thus do not view their genocidal acts as murder.
This was very well done, your colleague did a great job here! After watching this, I think I finally understand the gold/silver linings of each symbol for The Twelve. Gold represents the active polarity of Their respective elements (Thaliak's constant search of knowledge) and silver is the passive (Menphina's loving shield against hate). Thank you, Scribe. :-)
This. THIS is the format of video that I love, man. It does take a lot of work but this one by far (based on composition and scripting) has been my favorite. Keep it up, Teach!
This was really cool! The way you structured it, as an in universe conversation, earns so many points in my book. Really good stuff, neatly organized, and spun into an informative, entertaining lesson on the 12. I didn’t realize my patron god, Halone, resided with the moon goddess. I love the moon, so im happy they are together.
That was both adorable and incredibly informative! Thank you for all your hard work studying the lore of this incredible world, and your joy sharing with all who will listen!
I saw the same thing! I was wondering if it's bc I was reading about it before watching this but glad to see I'm not the only one who saw that. 6.1 alliance raid spoilers: Makes me wonder now why g'raha is our companion for the twelve raids.
I've recently found your channel and been loving everything I've seen! I've been sharing your videos with my RP group to help them immerse into the lore, thank you for making such awesome content!
No, thank YOU for telling people about me! It's been a dream of mine to reach as many players as possible and show everyone just how deep this world really is beyond the MSQ.
@@SynodicScribe That's what I did since I'm the lore guy in our FC and some are really open to the idea of learning more. I find the way you present any given subject matter to be very entertaining. Found your channel like a week ago and now I'm slowly working my way through everything to brush up on my knowledge to get ready for Endwalker! :D
Great idea, I’ll suggest our Scribe’s videos for my FC too. I adore learning lore in games I love. In FF14’s case I do have to balance learning with spoilers given I’m only a lvl 65 Smn/Sch who is just before Stormblood. Going beyond Baelsar’s Wall is literally my next main quest. It’ll probably be another week before I actually go though because I’m levelling up my Land and Hand jobs and I need to do all the job quests for Sunmoner, Scholar to 65 provided they don’t send me into Stormblood areas. Not to mention the White Mage ones since I went a bit overboard in levelling it to lvl 70. Given my WoL is a Hyur female Mage seeking knowledge I chose Thaliak as her patron god. As a traveller and adventurer she probably worships Oschon too. I suppose she’d like the goddess of love, since she does love Eorzea and seeks to protect it. To protect Limsa Lominsa, Gridania and Ishgard. Not so much regarding Ul’dah giving how you-know-who frames the WoL for you-know-what. It ruined and changed the Scions forever.
Love the lore bits here! As invested as I am with the story of FFXIV, I like that the lore has been discussed to this extent in your video. Will probably see more and understand the Twelve once the alliance raid for Endwalker hits! Thank you :D
Althyk raising Nymeia and then becoming her lover is a bit creepy though very fitting in god myths. This video is super helpful and interesting before the Myths of The Realm alliance raid.
Then you better just hope that was waxing poetic of their myth and not the entire truth. The raids seems to imply that the myths are just partially rooted in truth.
When I started FFXIV last year, I never thought to be very invested in the game's lore. This channel helps me piece together and make sense of the information that I may have come across in game and brushed off as some random lore drop. This primer for the history of the twelve gives me confidence that when the EW raid drops, all the new information wouldn't just go over my head. And that makes me more excited for it. Thanks Scribe!
This myth and some of the gods/heavens actually makes sense with the insanity of everyone being like 'oh yeah, calamities based around elements, rise and fall of civilizations constantly happening every few thousand years, just another day we have to survive here' as the cycle of destruction, creation and gods that SEEM opposites working alongside seems to be a common theme amongst gods. It's engrained into the cultural mind of Eorzea.
Your channel doesn't really have the attention it deserves man but given how exponentially popular XIV is becoming I think you'll have an explosion of subs sometime in 2022. Keep it up, the quality is great! I really enjoy this "in world" approach you took with this video.
I think the Twelve are actually the Amaurontine members against the Convocation. The Convocation was probably thought to be consisting of only 13 members as Azem's was known as the "forgotten seat". To oppose Zodiark they mustered an equal amount of members to form Hydaelyn: 12 members and Venat against the Convocation of 13. The Twelve arose as they regained their own individuality and pulled away from Hydaelyn to become their own deities.
@@jellyfishjig Maybe Azem defected to Venat's side? The WoL could be an incarnation of Azeym which can explain why one of the most common musical motifs in-game is "Torn from the Heavens"
@@Hurley708 I agree that we play as an incarnation of Azem. However, my understanding is that they refused to join either side, probably because they realized from their travels that reducing everything to a ideological binary rarely provides a positive lasting solution to anything. I think that either Azem thought they could find a third option or that they ended up directly opposing both Primals with some form of resistance. Maybe, when it looked like Venat had the upper hand, Azem intervened to mitigate the damage. After all, there's no given reason why Venat had to stop with the current number of divisions, and given how impactful even a Zodiark divided by 14 ended up being, I can definitely see Venat wanted to keep cutting her foe. Azem might have limited the damage but got soul vored by the mothercrystal and only gets their fragments spat out to reincarnate when the new post-sundering balance is threatened (which would have been ok with the original Azem but I bet it is super traumatic to be shoved into a dangerous, often thankless life over and over without people including yourself fully understanding why). I also bet that Zenos may be an incarnation of Azem's trauma from all this and would explain why he has memories of the Final Days, but that's yet more speculation. In any case, a last minute reconciliation with Venat before the sundering would support your hypothesis, but I feel it beaks Azem's big character trait of not existing as one side in any sort of dualism or binary but wandering wherever is needed.
@@jellyfishjig Oh yeah I forgot he declined to join Hydaelyn's summoning. Welp that ruins the Azeyma IS Azem theory or at least that Azem was part of the original Venat-Convocation group. Although, it was stated that half of the Ancients were used to form Zodiark and the other half became Hydaelyn. Despite declining to join the summoning, he was inevitably absorbed into one of the primals (more likely Hydaelyn). I can see him hijacking Hydaelyn somewhat to turn her power onto herself, dividing her powers, and thereby limiting the extent of the Sundering to 14 parts.
@H Justin C On a related note, I wonder if there was a sundered fragment of Azem on the 13th when it became the Void. If so, is one of our alternate selves a powerful voidsent? If that's the case AND Azeyma is an ascended/primalized version of our earlier incarnation (maybe from one of the hyper-religious eras), then that would be awesome and in keeping with the whole light/dark duality. I can't wait for the 12-centric alliance raid!
Now I understand that Line Lahabrea says when he is casting Ultima.. from the deepest pit of the 7 hells, to the pentacle of the heavens. I do wonder if him saying that Line means that the creation myth has any truth to it.
I've always wanted to know more about the twelve. We may hear an occasional prayer or name drop or we may learn what their belief has influenced on eorzean society but they never talk about the gods in regards to actual eorzean lore to the point where like the student in your video barely any players actually know anything about them. I really hope they becomes major plot points in future expansions so that stuff like their lore is more common knowledge among players. Me and my friends even have a theory that after Endwalker we might start fighting primal versions of the twelve now that Spoilers We've developed a cure for tempering so maybe some believers of the twelve might start getting reckless and primal summon some of them now that they no longer have to fear becoming a mindless zombie
My character's deity is Halone and watching this, it honestly fits her character as a whole. My WoL Oiamh is a Miqo'te born and raised in Ishgard who yearns for battle and revenge against her father for killing her mother. The main colour I wear for her is Red, bestowing her with the title "Crimson Summoner". Very well done as well! I loved watching this.
Feels synchronous that I happen to RP someone who's aethersick and happens to just avoid aetheryte teleportation and was also born under Oschon. Big think. 🤔
Thank you very much for this video ! I've been wondering about the lore of the Twelve for a while now, and your video helped me understand a lot of it.
25 minutes TED talk on the 12? YES PLEASE! Thank you! This was easy to follow and had a truly immersive feel. It has the same energy as the best Greek/Roman mythos with all of the good, bad, ugly, and scandalous that humanity likes in some god lore. When I started the game, I chose Thaliak because I am a teacher, not realizing how much I already resonated with him. Great stuff here!
They are really teasing us with the "12 are ascians theory" imo. We only have 2 samples to work with, but for example Emet-Selch. Nald'Thal. 2 words for the name. Nald'thal is the overseer of the underworld and commerce, Emet's true name is Hades, also ruler of the underworld, nd he does have nice understanding of the life stream. Emet-selch's crystal and associated constellation in FF12 is gemini, and nald thal are twin gods. Emet Selch also means Angel of Truth, and an arbiter of commerce like Nald'thal probably has to be very truthful. And finally, NaldThal resides with Azeyma in a city of prosperity and gold. Azeyma is theorized to be based on azem, us, and a dear friend of Hades/Emet. Azeyma is considered a just and honorable lady, who's light and sun shine overcome darkness and injustice, just like the warrior of light does. So yeah it's not 100% there (like, i highly doubt azem would spend much time in a single heaven. He has a lot in common with oschon in that respect), but it's too many similarities to be just a coincidence
Honestly Oscheone (spelling, sorry) just showing up one day makes sense to me. Wanderers tend not to have beginnings or ends, otherwise they aren't wandering. Just noticing, Halone had nothing to do with the 'truce' between herself and the nature goddess (bad with names, apologies).
I like how you have a buddy to ask some questions to help clarify some stuff. I'm a new subscriber and I like your videos they are great to listen and I love learning about the lore of this game.
Well, according to a certain boss's theme, "the seven hells become our seven heavens" or something like that. Which is all well and good except we do have a confirmation that the hells are element based in the Ivalice Raids. Spoilers Below!!!!! Given what we know about the universe, and that the Void is often invoked as the 7th hell (of darkness?), Maybe the seven hells and heavens are just abstractions of the other, elementally-leaning Shards that can become hellish in the lead up to the Rejoining but bring the Source's souls closer to the godlike unsundered after the resulting Calamity occurs.
My character in my mind has developed into an artist, a poet and most of all a historian, so Nymeia being his Guardian co-incidentally is a perfect fit I will honour those who came before me, my writings will ensure that I keep that promise, the promise to remember
Given recent patches, when I found this vid I thought it'd be a good Idea to brush up on the lore of the gods. And now that I have not only did I learn a lot of interesting things, but recent events make more sense with this context. Plus I now know the chosen deity I picked on the character creation screen so long ago I can't remember the reason for my choice is still a deity worth following.
I picked Azeyma because of the letter A leader the word and the symbol of the sun. I am happy I chose it after knowing it is just and nothing can hide from her. Another favorite is Althik because wielding time and space is a powerful domain imo. Still, its impressive how the developers thought deep into the lore and aspect of hydelyn and Zodiark!
Like Fudge Muppet said in one of their Elder Scrolls lore vids "To not believe in the gods in Elder Scrolls would be like not believing the Force in Star Wars. You would just simply be wrong." I believe the same goes here but still a great and insightful video
I’ve always been curious about the Twelve, the creation myths of Eorzea along with what the gods do and why/how Eorzeans pray to them. As a lvl 65 Smn/Sch just about to get into Stormblood by going over Baelsar’s Wall I do have to temper knowledge with spoilers. Naturally as a Hyur female Summoner during solo content and Scholar during group content I chose Thaliak as her patron god, though she probably also likes Oschon since she’s a travelling adventurer and the goddess of love since she loves Limsa Lominsa, Gridania and Ishgard enough to risk her life a lot protecting them. Not so much Ul’dah after the events at the very end of ARR content right before she winds up sheltering in Ishgard. It wasn’t just you-know-who. There was enough corruption in Ul’dah at all levels, not just in the Syndicate that allowed that to happen to an entirely innocent party who had done nothing but good for Ul’dah. Even those who knew what was really going on as rivals of the conspirator allowed the false accusations to happen. Nobody except Raubhan stepped up to protect the innocent. That incident damaged the Scions forever. We know what happened to Minfilia, what Thancred lost, how Y’shtola was changed for casting that forbidden Flow spell. And how Yda and Papalymo abandoned their duties for a whole expansion. And perhaps adding insult to injury when we finally do get to face “Griffin” and beat him down, forced cutscene inaction forces us to watch our WoL fail to land the saving fatal blow while Griffin is down. Instead we’re forced to let him get to his feet and enact his plan. Another thing that causes major damage to the Scions. *Snort.* I’d have never listened to Aymeric and toss those items down a random frozen gorge. Not knowing the Asians and the kind of power they wield. No, I’d have given them to Midgardsormr or Hvaesrelgyr for safekeeping. Who better than either the father of all dragons or one of his First brood? So yeah me and my WoL aren’t too fond of Ul’dah. It’s corrupt on all levels. Remember the merchant who first accused a female refugee of theft so he’d have the excuse to rape her? The one that got us “fed” to Ifrit? Him and the corrupt Brass Blades and Immoral Flames? Anyway I enjoyed learning about the Twelve. Just as during the Dragon Age series I enjoyed learning about the Maker in Andrastism, the Elven pantheon (which seems like a smaller version of the Twelve.) And the Dwarves and their worship to The Stone and their ancestor Paragons. Even in the Fallout series it’s fun to see the Children of the Atom. Not really a surprise that living in a post nuclear apocalyptic wasteland for two centuries caused a religion that worships radiation. Then there’s the Nine in the Elder Scrolls series. Always fun for a RPG fan who enjoys lore like me.
**Heavy Spoiler warning:** Last chance My headcanon shortly into SHB was that the Twelve was the greater whole of the WoL before the summoning of Hydaelyn. So either the 12 was the 'complete' WoL plus her/his companions or 'The Thirteenth' was a deity lost or omitted throughout the ages.
Quite possibly, though SPOILERS I'm almost inclined to think it's based on the Convocation of 12 given that Azem is included. However, I'm not sure about the other names. We do know there was at least one Pre-sundering civilization of note, and Azem almost got involved there Stormblood style to help (in all seriousness, they were probably just asked for help given their personality and their job). Maybe the Twelve are remnants or narrative recollections of people from that other civilization, and Azem was a woman for most of the time they helped them out, so they would eventually be considered part of the pantheon as a goddess. Pre-sundering acians can choose their own form after all, even if they usually go with the tall pale humanoid with black cloak and a mask (white if you're most people, red for leadership, and black if you're the the Wanderer (diplomat and probably foreign intelligence operative and enforcer) Azem. As an aside, I find it cool and entirely in line with FF14's focus on dualism that despite being a kind and quirky sun-associated adventurer that would ignore tradition and rules to help people, Azem is referred to as Death a few times, wears a black mask, and uses rift magic for their signature spell in a manner that may function well beyond current necromancy as a potential side effect. I guess you can't have shadows without the sun.
given what emet-selch tell the Wol in endwalker, the twelve are probably the amaurotine who joined venat to oppose the convocation of 14, i think that's the direction they might take in the future
After learning of the truth of Hydaelyn and Zodiark from the Ascians, witnessing the Power of the Twelve shatter before the might of Bahamut, do any of us still think of the Twelve as actual Gods?
It's safe to assume they are just like mythology indeed. I mean, the creation myth of the twelve is so bonkers and nothing to do with what we actually know of they history of the star. So maybe actual, real divinities don't exist in ffxiv world, but the twelve could be like ascians posing as gods, and overtime that belief became so powerful and distant from the origin they are like gods to the people
How does this play into the Viera lore then? Its said they hear not only the earth and that its alive. But the world beyond, the spirit world. And that's it's their law and way of life. So is the 12 they hear, or something else? Or possibly something else along with the 12?
Unfortunately true. Everything I know about them is the years worth they have been in past FF games. Heres to hoping we get more lore on them in the future.
Huh neat. My WoL is Hyur Highlander who worships Althyk. I picked it because it was the closest thing to Akatosh from the Elder Scrolls. After watching this I'd like to think he only started actually praying properly after the sh*t that went down in ARR in Ul'dah. Becoming the rock for the surviving Scions and once mostly everyone was recovered they had all gotten used to deferring to him and he kept his worship up in a "Oh please don't let me fuck this up." kinda way.
Revisiting this vid after beating Endwalker, and... spoilers... Emet-Selch teases "the true identities of the 12." Possibly inferring that they were surviving Amauroti.
Really liking the conversational format, gives a Socratic maieutic vibe to the lessons, where the one learning finds it's own answers thanks to the knowledge and the discussion about it.
hey man, ive been binge watching your vids thanks for the great explanations of the lore of our game! Just a question, Do you think there’s a chance that the twelve has some kind of relationship with the “you know what” group of the ancients?
I thougth the twelve were primals. Since they grow in power with prayer and crystals and were one of the main reasons why gaius wanted to "educate" the eorzean peole
I'd love to explain more but don't know how far into the game you are. So to not spoil, I'll just say pay attention to who the Ascians teach summoning to and why.
@@dansong9161 hi Dan, i already fisnished the msq 5.55 but didint pay that much atention to detail to the amarotines dialoges (i got the part that lahabrea created ifrit). Could you please enligth me in the topic (i dont mind spoilers)
As far as we know they don't temper people. A primal can be born of any type of belief, the beast tribes primals are NOT their actual gods, they are like aether given form trhough prayer, but that doesn't always look or is the same as their original belief. For example tiamat summoned a primal in form of bahamut out of desperation, and because of this he was a ungry for vengeance destructive dragon, unlike real bahamut. Same with shiva, which was originally just a normal woman. So in theory you could make a primal with an inspiration on the twelve. There are enough similarities between ramuh and rhalgr that makes this really interesting. The sylphs don't have a sense of rooted culture, they just see and adapt with their neighbors, so they say Ramuh was originally a human who protected the forest, had a staff and a big beard. The land of the sylphs is particularly close to gyr abania, where most people worshipped Rhalgr, also an old man portraying a staff and a long beard. So the sylphs probably heard legends about this, and some of them thought to summon a primal in his image when they are in danger. None of this is confirmed of course, but i guess you can make the connection. But the twelve as far as we know, have never been successfully summoned as primals by the "human" races, so could a primal based on them exist? Probably. Are they themselves primals? I don't think so. And even when louisoix summons them, they look nothing like primals
New player (still haven't actually started, but I need a firm grasp of the lore/myths to get into a game) and this is amazing, thank you so very much. The wiki is a hot mess and this is so easily accessible.
Try jessecox lore for beginners video. There's only one/two for now but his first one is godo for the basic geography and history of ffxiv. And yeah the wiki is not very reliable since its the final fantasy wiki, not the ff14 wiki
Hilarious coincidence that I'm a sun miqote that mains warrior. And just so happened to pick azeyma as my deity. That fits surprisingly well. Edit: I just realized that azeymas daughter llymlaen is the goddess worshipped by limsa lominsa. My starting city. And the deity residing over my nameday is halone. The goddess of war. IT ALL CONNECTS! :0
This was pretty great. I enjoyed them "in universe" look at the lore. Its sometimes easy to forget how unusual the WoLs/Scions knowledge base is in the world of Eorzia.
Most residents of the Source probably don't want to know that their problems stem from some giant crystals that were brought in to existence by similar means to he Primald that are always threatening to destroy their homes, or that every major apocalyptic event was set in motion by a group of asshole mass murderers who want to go back to before the world's were divided by repeating genocide because they don't view everyone who isn't them as people and thus do not view their genocidal acts as murder.
This was very well done, your colleague did a great job here!
After watching this, I think I finally understand the gold/silver linings of each symbol for The Twelve.
Gold represents the active polarity of Their respective elements (Thaliak's constant search of knowledge) and silver is the passive (Menphina's loving shield against hate).
Thank you, Scribe. :-)
after EW i am 100% convinced the twelve were Venat's allies
Well then
This comment aged well
If only you knew how well this would age
This is so cool, and makes me actually wonder about the alliance raids we'll be getting in Endwalker.
And now you know
Or you would have known, had you not died a few months ago... rest in peace, friend.
This. THIS is the format of video that I love, man. It does take a lot of work but this one by far (based on composition and scripting) has been my favorite. Keep it up, Teach!
Thank for noticing! Took about a month of collaboration with my friends and days of editing to finish. But I'm proud of how it turned out!
This was really cool! The way you structured it, as an in universe conversation, earns so many points in my book. Really good stuff, neatly organized, and spun into an informative, entertaining lesson on the 12. I didn’t realize my patron god, Halone, resided with the moon goddess. I love the moon, so im happy they are together.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Even though it's starting to show its age when compared to my newer work I'm still very happy with how it came together.
That was both adorable and incredibly informative!
Thank you for all your hard work studying the lore of this incredible world, and your joy sharing with all who will listen!
I absolutely love the way you portray ffxiv lore, it’s very fitting and immersive.
Thank you very much ^^
Σ(ﾟДﾟ) the tower of Byregot and Rhalgr is a depiction of the Crystal Tower drawing energy from Dalamud!
I thought the same exact thing when I saw it
Twelve are an allagan conspiracy 😅
I saw the same thing! I was wondering if it's bc I was reading about it before watching this but glad to see I'm not the only one who saw that.
6.1 alliance raid spoilers:
Makes me wonder now why g'raha is our companion for the twelve raids.
I can not thank you enough for making this video. My friends couldn't even explain it and they have been playing nearly a decade!
It's obscure knowledge for sure. But I'm glad I was able to illuminate all of this for you, especially with the new 24-man coming!
Even the ever studious scribe has colleagues to help him find his many book and scripts
Indeed I do! I'm lucky to have friends that encourage and help with my work.
@@SynodicScribe And friends that do stupid shit that distract you from your studies
@@dakotadoyle7573 I'm thinking of a certain Miquo'te at your statement...
I've recently found your channel and been loving everything I've seen! I've been sharing your videos with my RP group to help them immerse into the lore, thank you for making such awesome content!
No, thank YOU for telling people about me! It's been a dream of mine to reach as many players as possible and show everyone just how deep this world really is beyond the MSQ.
@@SynodicScribe That's what I did since I'm the lore guy in our FC and some are really open to the idea of learning more. I find the way you present any given subject matter to be very entertaining. Found your channel like a week ago and now I'm slowly working my way through everything to brush up on my knowledge to get ready for Endwalker! :D
@@TheOneGreat There's certainly a lot to go over, and I've got more coming this weekend!
Great idea, I’ll suggest our Scribe’s videos for my FC too. I adore learning lore in games I love.
In FF14’s case I do have to balance learning with spoilers given I’m only a lvl 65 Smn/Sch who is just before Stormblood. Going beyond Baelsar’s Wall is literally my next main quest.
It’ll probably be another week before I actually go though because I’m levelling up my Land and Hand jobs and I need to do all the job quests for Sunmoner, Scholar to 65 provided they don’t send me into Stormblood areas. Not to mention the White Mage ones since I went a bit overboard in levelling it to lvl 70.
Given my WoL is a Hyur female Mage seeking knowledge I chose Thaliak as her patron god. As a traveller and adventurer she probably worships Oschon too. I suppose she’d like the goddess of love, since she does love Eorzea and seeks to protect it.
To protect Limsa Lominsa, Gridania and Ishgard. Not so much regarding Ul’dah giving how you-know-who frames the WoL for you-know-what. It ruined and changed the Scions forever.
Love the lore bits here! As invested as I am with the story of FFXIV, I like that the lore has been discussed to this extent in your video. Will probably see more and understand the Twelve once the alliance raid for Endwalker hits! Thank you :D
Heck yeah we will! But I wanted to make this primer since not many players know about the 12.
Althyk raising Nymeia and then becoming her lover is a bit creepy though very fitting in god myths.
This video is super helpful and interesting before the Myths of The Realm alliance raid.
Then you better just hope that was waxing poetic of their myth and not the entire truth. The raids seems to imply that the myths are just partially rooted in truth.
When I started FFXIV last year, I never thought to be very invested in the game's lore. This channel helps me piece together and make sense of the information that I may have come across in game and brushed off as some random lore drop.
This primer for the history of the twelve gives me confidence that when the EW raid drops, all the new information wouldn't just go over my head. And that makes me more excited for it. Thanks Scribe!
This myth and some of the gods/heavens actually makes sense with the insanity of everyone being like 'oh yeah, calamities based around elements, rise and fall of civilizations constantly happening every few thousand years, just another day we have to survive here' as the cycle of destruction, creation and gods that SEEM opposites working alongside seems to be a common theme amongst gods. It's engrained into the cultural mind of Eorzea.
Your channel doesn't really have the attention it deserves man but given how exponentially popular XIV is becoming I think you'll have an explosion of subs sometime in 2022. Keep it up, the quality is great! I really enjoy this "in world" approach you took with this video.
Thank you so much for the vote of confidence! Like you said, I hope I can share what I find with even more people next year!
Honestly, the use of in-game proxies for the explination was just perfect. Great work!
I think the Twelve are actually the Amaurontine members against the Convocation. The Convocation was probably thought to be consisting of only 13 members as Azem's was known as the "forgotten seat". To oppose Zodiark they mustered an equal amount of members to form Hydaelyn: 12 members and Venat against the Convocation of 13. The Twelve arose as they regained their own individuality and pulled away from Hydaelyn to become their own deities.
Isn't one of the Twelve based on Azem though?
@@jellyfishjig Maybe Azem defected to Venat's side? The WoL could be an incarnation of Azeym which can explain why one of the most common musical motifs in-game is "Torn from the Heavens"
@@Hurley708 I agree that we play as an incarnation of Azem. However, my understanding is that they refused to join either side, probably because they realized from their travels that reducing everything to a ideological binary rarely provides a positive lasting solution to anything.
I think that either Azem thought they could find a third option or that they ended up directly opposing both Primals with some form of resistance. Maybe, when it looked like Venat had the upper hand, Azem intervened to mitigate the damage. After all, there's no given reason why Venat had to stop with the current number of divisions, and given how impactful even a Zodiark divided by 14 ended up being, I can definitely see Venat wanted to keep cutting her foe.
Azem might have limited the damage but got soul vored by the mothercrystal and only gets their fragments spat out to reincarnate when the new post-sundering balance is threatened (which would have been ok with the original Azem but I bet it is super traumatic to be shoved into a dangerous, often thankless life over and over without people including yourself fully understanding why).
I also bet that Zenos may be an incarnation of Azem's trauma from all this and would explain why he has memories of the Final Days, but that's yet more speculation.
In any case, a last minute reconciliation with Venat before the sundering would support your hypothesis, but I feel it beaks Azem's big character trait of not existing as one side in any sort of dualism or binary but wandering wherever is needed.
@@jellyfishjig Oh yeah I forgot he declined to join Hydaelyn's summoning. Welp that ruins the Azeyma IS Azem theory or at least that Azem was part of the original Venat-Convocation group. Although, it was stated that half of the Ancients were used to form Zodiark and the other half became Hydaelyn. Despite declining to join the summoning, he was inevitably absorbed into one of the primals (more likely Hydaelyn). I can see him hijacking Hydaelyn somewhat to turn her power onto herself, dividing her powers, and thereby limiting the extent of the Sundering to 14 parts.
@H Justin C On a related note, I wonder if there was a sundered fragment of Azem on the 13th when it became the Void. If so, is one of our alternate selves a powerful voidsent? If that's the case AND Azeyma is an ascended/primalized version of our earlier incarnation (maybe from one of the hyper-religious eras), then that would be awesome and in keeping with the whole light/dark duality. I can't wait for the 12-centric alliance raid!
your friend did a great job
This has been very helpful with the new alliance raids and seeing the future bosses and heavens themes, very informative!
Post Thalia, one year after this. The seventh heaven -- where one becomes all and all become one. Damn. You're good.
A theory that proved to not be entirely without merit it would seem!
Such a creative way of doing lore videos, great stuff!
Now I understand that Line Lahabrea says when he is casting Ultima.. from the deepest pit of the 7 hells, to the pentacle of the heavens. I do wonder if him saying that Line means that the creation myth has any truth to it.
The fact that he did not possess Papalymo in order to become Lalabrea is proof that there are no gods
pinnacle, not pentacle, two different things. Also, it could have just been an incantation.
If I’m honest, I just think it’s the activation phrase for Ultima. Like some big spells, it requires an incantation of sorts.
I've always wanted to know more about the twelve. We may hear an occasional prayer or name drop or we may learn what their belief has influenced on eorzean society but they never talk about the gods in regards to actual eorzean lore to the point where like the student in your video barely any players actually know anything about them. I really hope they becomes major plot points in future expansions so that stuff like their lore is more common knowledge among players. Me and my friends even have a theory that after Endwalker we might start fighting primal versions of the twelve now that
Spoilers
We've developed a cure for tempering so maybe some believers of the twelve might start getting reckless and primal summon some of them now that they no longer have to fear becoming a mindless zombie
The alliance raid for Endwalker is going to be heavily based around the 12 so we should get a fair bit more info on them during that.
Awesome video. The explanation was masterfully done I understood everything. I love the roleplay in this video as well. Please more of this!
My character's deity is Halone and watching this, it honestly fits her character as a whole. My WoL Oiamh is a Miqo'te born and raised in Ishgard who yearns for battle and revenge against her father for killing her mother. The main colour I wear for her is Red, bestowing her with the title "Crimson Summoner". Very well done as well! I loved watching this.
Feels synchronous that I happen to RP someone who's aethersick and happens to just avoid aetheryte teleportation and was also born under Oschon.
Big think. 🤔
I love that. Aethersick. Super cool!
Thank you very much for this video ! I've been wondering about the lore of the Twelve for a while now, and your video helped me understand a lot of it.
25 minutes TED talk on the 12? YES PLEASE! Thank you! This was easy to follow and had a truly immersive feel. It has the same energy as the best Greek/Roman mythos with all of the good, bad, ugly, and scandalous that humanity likes in some god lore. When I started the game, I chose Thaliak because I am a teacher, not realizing how much I already resonated with him. Great stuff here!
Glad you enjoyed it! I'm always trying to roll out something new every week!
They are really teasing us with the "12 are ascians theory" imo. We only have 2 samples to work with, but for example Emet-Selch. Nald'Thal. 2 words for the name.
Nald'thal is the overseer of the underworld and commerce, Emet's true name is Hades, also ruler of the underworld, nd he does have nice understanding of the life stream. Emet-selch's crystal and associated constellation in FF12 is gemini, and nald thal are twin gods.
Emet Selch also means Angel of Truth, and an arbiter of commerce like Nald'thal probably has to be very truthful. And finally, NaldThal resides with Azeyma in a city of prosperity and gold. Azeyma is theorized to be based on azem, us, and a dear friend of Hades/Emet. Azeyma is considered a just and honorable lady, who's light and sun shine overcome darkness and injustice, just like the warrior of light does.
So yeah it's not 100% there (like, i highly doubt azem would spend much time in a single heaven. He has a lot in common with oschon in that respect), but it's too many similarities to be just a coincidence
The Q&A format of this was really nice
I'm a bit new to the ffxiv community but this was the best lore vid I've seen yet, cant wait to explore this world more!
Honestly Oscheone (spelling, sorry) just showing up one day makes sense to me. Wanderers tend not to have beginnings or ends, otherwise they aren't wandering.
Just noticing, Halone had nothing to do with the 'truce' between herself and the nature goddess (bad with names, apologies).
She's always been a loose canon. >.>
Good video. Will you do a part 2 after Myths of the Realm is done?
Probably yeah!
I like how you have a buddy to ask some questions to help clarify some stuff. I'm a new subscriber and I like your videos they are great to listen and I love learning about the lore of this game.
Thank YOU for your support! I'm happy to share what I find with as many players as possible!
This video is more relevant than ever seeing that we have the new alliance raid, and might learn more
I wonder if we shall travel to these "Seven Heavens" given certain stories regarding Azemyma The Warden.
Well, according to a certain boss's theme, "the seven hells become our seven heavens" or something like that. Which is all well and good except we do have a confirmation that the hells are element based in the Ivalice Raids. Spoilers Below!!!!!
Given what we know about the universe, and that the Void is often invoked as the 7th hell (of darkness?), Maybe the seven hells and heavens are just abstractions of the other, elementally-leaning Shards that can become hellish in the lead up to the Rejoining but bring the Source's souls closer to the godlike unsundered after the resulting Calamity occurs.
Still better voice acting than high guardian spice
That's a low bar and you know it!
@@SynodicScribe haha so true
Good stuff.
THANK you for this...!
I feel like this video might change in the future when the alliance raids drop, I have a theory they might be the ancients who backed Hydaelyn
And all of a sudden, this is much more relevant.
the more i learn about ff14 lore the insane thought i put into my character just so slowly happens to match actual lore my characters fits
What a wonderful lore Video! Gonna share that for sure
Glad you liked it. Making that one was a lot of work. lol
My character in my mind has developed into an artist, a poet and most of all a historian, so Nymeia being his Guardian co-incidentally is a perfect fit
I will honour those who came before me, my writings will ensure that I keep that promise, the promise to remember
This so much more interesting after finishing myths of the realm
Can't wait to see the supplemental information from the EW 24-man.
I need to finish the msq so I can safety watch all of you videos
Given recent patches, when I found this vid I thought it'd be a good Idea to brush up on the lore of the gods. And now that I have not only did I learn a lot of interesting things, but recent events make more sense with this context. Plus I now know the chosen deity I picked on the character creation screen so long ago I can't remember the reason for my choice is still a deity worth following.
Then the research served its purpose! Glad you enjoyed. ^^
I watched this to get a sense for the new raid. I love your videos!
Thank you so much! I do my best :)
I picked Azeyma because of the letter A leader the word and the symbol of the sun. I am happy I chose it after knowing it is just and nothing can hide from her. Another favorite is Althik because wielding time and space is a powerful domain imo. Still, its impressive how the developers thought deep into the lore and aspect of hydelyn and Zodiark!
With the new Alliance raid, this video might just get a sequel.
Probably!
@@SynodicScribe HYPE!!!
Great video as always
Like Fudge Muppet said in one of their Elder Scrolls lore vids "To not believe in the gods in Elder Scrolls would be like not believing the Force in Star Wars. You would just simply be wrong." I believe the same goes here but still a great and insightful video
I looooove listening to Fudge Muppet! Hope I can match their quality one day!
@@SynodicScribe if you ask me your quality is just as good as theirs imo or if not your very very close to them 😄
I’ve always been curious about the Twelve, the creation myths of Eorzea along with what the gods do and why/how Eorzeans pray to them.
As a lvl 65 Smn/Sch just about to get into Stormblood by going over Baelsar’s Wall I do have to temper knowledge with spoilers. Naturally as a Hyur female Summoner during solo content and Scholar during group content I chose Thaliak as her patron god, though she probably also likes Oschon since she’s a travelling adventurer and the goddess of love since she loves Limsa Lominsa, Gridania and Ishgard enough to risk her life a lot protecting them.
Not so much Ul’dah after the events at the very end of ARR content right before she winds up sheltering in Ishgard. It wasn’t just you-know-who. There was enough corruption in Ul’dah at all levels, not just in the Syndicate that allowed that to happen to an entirely innocent party who had done nothing but good for Ul’dah.
Even those who knew what was really going on as rivals of the conspirator allowed the false accusations to happen. Nobody except Raubhan stepped up to protect the innocent.
That incident damaged the Scions forever. We know what happened to Minfilia, what Thancred lost, how Y’shtola was changed for casting that forbidden Flow spell. And how Yda and Papalymo abandoned their duties for a whole expansion.
And perhaps adding insult to injury when we finally do get to face “Griffin” and beat him down, forced cutscene inaction forces us to watch our WoL fail to land the saving fatal blow while Griffin is down. Instead we’re forced to let him get to his feet and enact his plan. Another thing that causes major damage to the Scions. *Snort.* I’d have never listened to Aymeric and toss those items down a random frozen gorge. Not knowing the Asians and the kind of power they wield. No, I’d have given them to Midgardsormr or Hvaesrelgyr for safekeeping. Who better than either the father of all dragons or one of his First brood?
So yeah me and my WoL aren’t too fond of Ul’dah. It’s corrupt on all levels. Remember the merchant who first accused a female refugee of theft so he’d have the excuse to rape her? The one that got us “fed” to Ifrit? Him and the corrupt Brass Blades and Immoral Flames?
Anyway I enjoyed learning about the Twelve. Just as during the Dragon Age series I enjoyed learning about the Maker in Andrastism, the Elven pantheon (which seems like a smaller version of the Twelve.) And the Dwarves and their worship to The Stone and their ancestor Paragons. Even in the Fallout series it’s fun to see the Children of the Atom. Not really a surprise that living in a post nuclear apocalyptic wasteland for two centuries caused a religion that worships radiation. Then there’s the Nine in the Elder Scrolls series.
Always fun for a RPG fan who enjoys lore like me.
**Heavy Spoiler warning:**
Last chance
My headcanon shortly into SHB was that the Twelve was the greater whole of the WoL before the summoning of Hydaelyn. So either the 12 was the 'complete' WoL plus her/his companions or 'The Thirteenth' was a deity lost or omitted throughout the ages.
Quite possibly, though SPOILERS
I'm almost inclined to think it's based on the Convocation of 12 given that Azem is included. However, I'm not sure about the other names. We do know there was at least one Pre-sundering civilization of note, and Azem almost got involved there Stormblood style to help (in all seriousness, they were probably just asked for help given their personality and their job). Maybe the Twelve are remnants or narrative recollections of people from that other civilization, and Azem was a woman for most of the time they helped them out, so they would eventually be considered part of the pantheon as a goddess. Pre-sundering acians can choose their own form after all, even if they usually go with the tall pale humanoid with black cloak and a mask (white if you're most people, red for leadership, and black if you're the the Wanderer (diplomat and probably foreign intelligence operative and enforcer) Azem.
As an aside, I find it cool and entirely in line with FF14's focus on dualism that despite being a kind and quirky sun-associated adventurer that would ignore tradition and rules to help people, Azem is referred to as Death a few times, wears a black mask, and uses rift magic for their signature spell in a manner that may function well beyond current necromancy as a potential side effect. I guess you can't have shadows without the sun.
Excellent video keep up the good work guys
I'm back now that the raid is out, I'm looking for comments and reactions everywhere
can I hope to see a updated visual version of this since we now know what they look like? wishful thinking I know lol
given what emet-selch tell the Wol in endwalker, the twelve are probably the amaurotine who joined venat to oppose the convocation of 14, i think that's the direction they might take in the future
They exist. If a primal can be created out of aether and prayers then 12 gods certainly can.
Great lesson! For the future, could we get a lesson on what we know on the ascians, both unsundered and sundered?
There is still remarkably little we know for certain. But I can do my best!
Byregot is pronounced like the word Pyre.
Could you do another video on the twelve with all the new lore that came out?
Anymore episodes with your friend? Loved this style of vid with you being the teacher
I'm actually working on the follow up to this video where he and I cover the truth regarding the 12 now. haha
@@SynodicScribe Can't wait!!
love your lore videos. totally approve of the "skits"
I'll quote you in Sharlayan circles. Without a lingering doubt.
That when I get there.
After learning of the truth of Hydaelyn and Zodiark from the Ascians, witnessing the Power of the Twelve shatter before the might of Bahamut, do any of us still think of the Twelve as actual Gods?
It's safe to assume they are just like mythology indeed. I mean, the creation myth of the twelve is so bonkers and nothing to do with what we actually know of they history of the star. So maybe actual, real divinities don't exist in ffxiv world, but the twelve could be like ascians posing as gods, and overtime that belief became so powerful and distant from the origin they are like gods to the people
does the lore ever go into detail about how, according to the faith of the twelve, mankind first came into existence? or for what purpose?
15:44 :o am I wrong or does that look an awful lot like the shape in the endwalker logo?
Probably just a coincidence, this one is a tower while the endwalker logo probably depicts a space ship of sorts.
"In a kupo nut" I am stealing this phrase XD
Loved the new model!!!
How does this play into the Viera lore then? Its said they hear not only the earth and that its alive. But the world beyond, the spirit world. And that's it's their law and way of life. So is the 12 they hear, or something else? Or possibly something else along with the 12?
I've got little to no confirmed data on the vierra. their lore is shockingly scarce at the moment.
Unfortunately true. Everything I know about them is the years worth they have been in past FF games. Heres to hoping we get more lore on them in the future.
Loving all this lore
another example of how XIV's world building might be the best in the series
Huh neat. My WoL is Hyur Highlander who worships Althyk. I picked it because it was the closest thing to Akatosh from the Elder Scrolls. After watching this I'd like to think he only started actually praying properly after the sh*t that went down in ARR in Ul'dah. Becoming the rock for the surviving Scions and once mostly everyone was recovered they had all gotten used to deferring to him and he kept his worship up in a "Oh please don't let me fuck this up." kinda way.
Sooo, what was your reaction after meeting them?
Just like in real life: we needed the death of stars to create life. Destruction and creation go hand in hand.
Revisiting this vid after beating Endwalker, and... spoilers...
Emet-Selch teases "the true identities of the 12." Possibly inferring that they were surviving Amauroti.
Yeah that entire series of sentences was extremely forced and I didn't care for it.
What area is this? I remember it but don't recall the name of the dungeon.
I showed a few locations. But if you're referring to the library it's, The Great Gubal Library (Hard).
@@SynodicScribe Thanks :D
wait a second is that miqote the same miqote from the "Trying to Study with friends" video?
Really liking the conversational format, gives a Socratic maieutic vibe to the lessons, where the one learning finds it's own answers thanks to the knowledge and the discussion about it.
Nice name drop! Not enough appreciation for philosophical methods anymore.
The guy voicing the second guy sounds like Joe Cappas cartoon voice for "Dino Girl"
So, where does the mother crystal rank among deities? She's not one of the twelve, yet still worshipped.
The Mother Crystal is revered as the soul of the world itself.
Coming back on patch day just to dust off my old twelve knowledge and show off the lore brain lol
It’s official! When my WOL dies, I’ll join Haurchefant in heaven!!!!!
You do the gods work, my friend.
hey man, ive been binge watching your vids thanks for the great explanations of the lore of our game! Just a question, Do you think there’s a chance that the twelve has some kind of relationship with the “you know what” group of the ancients?
Honestly I've wondered the same thing. I assume MUCH of that will become clear in Endwalker with the final battle and the Myths of the Realm Raids.
This is so gooood
well thank you ^^
Oh good. Choosing Halone truly did match my WoL lol
I thougth the twelve were primals. Since they grow in power with prayer and crystals and were one of the main reasons why gaius wanted to "educate" the eorzean peole
I'd love to explain more but don't know how far into the game you are. So to not spoil, I'll just say pay attention to who the Ascians teach summoning to and why.
@@dansong9161 hi Dan, i already fisnished the msq 5.55 but didint pay that much atention to detail to the amarotines dialoges (i got the part that lahabrea created ifrit). Could you please enligth me in the topic (i dont mind spoilers)
As far as we know they don't temper people. A primal can be born of any type of belief, the beast tribes primals are NOT their actual gods, they are like aether given form trhough prayer, but that doesn't always look or is the same as their original belief. For example tiamat summoned a primal in form of bahamut out of desperation, and because of this he was a ungry for vengeance destructive dragon, unlike real bahamut. Same with shiva, which was originally just a normal woman.
So in theory you could make a primal with an inspiration on the twelve. There are enough similarities between ramuh and rhalgr that makes this really interesting. The sylphs don't have a sense of rooted culture, they just see and adapt with their neighbors, so they say Ramuh was originally a human who protected the forest, had a staff and a big beard. The land of the sylphs is particularly close to gyr abania, where most people worshipped Rhalgr, also an old man portraying a staff and a long beard. So the sylphs probably heard legends about this, and some of them thought to summon a primal in his image when they are in danger. None of this is confirmed of course, but i guess you can make the connection. But the twelve as far as we know, have never been successfully summoned as primals by the "human" races, so could a primal based on them exist? Probably. Are they themselves primals? I don't think so. And even when louisoix summons them, they look nothing like primals
Llymlaen worshipped by seamen not because of the sea current but because the wind is the force that pushes their sails
I wonder if the 7th is where a soul is placed when they can be classified to one.
the twelve to me are: Rhalgar, rhalgar...(fades out for a few moments then back in) ...and Rhalgar! there. the twelve!"
Funny, I always heard that the seventh heaven was a bar...
New player (still haven't actually started, but I need a firm grasp of the lore/myths to get into a game) and this is amazing, thank you so very much. The wiki is a hot mess and this is so easily accessible.
Glad to be of help!
Try jessecox lore for beginners video. There's only one/two for now but his first one is godo for the basic geography and history of ffxiv.
And yeah the wiki is not very reliable since its the final fantasy wiki, not the ff14 wiki
I want to RP with you guys!!! this looks so fun to film
I wonder if there any stories about Menphina and her loyal hound Dalamud
Hilarious coincidence that I'm a sun miqote that mains warrior. And just so happened to pick azeyma as my deity. That fits surprisingly well.
Edit: I just realized that azeymas daughter llymlaen is the goddess worshipped by limsa lominsa. My starting city. And the deity residing over my nameday is halone. The goddess of war. IT ALL CONNECTS! :0
And in a spectacular display of not doing their homework, the Ascians continue to be surprised at how strong you are despite all this.