The concept of souls having a hue was hinted at in Heavensward. During the Alchemist Job quests, it is a plot point that an alchemist's aetherial signature is used to draw arcane geometries and that it is unique to each alchemist (Source "What Death Can Join Together").
Honestly I am a bit sad that we are most likely not going to learn anything more about the Ancients. I think the idea of them is really cool and seeing what the world and people were like before the sundering is really neat.
Maybe in a far off expansion. Or through extra media like more short stories. Or let’s go crazy, maybe another FF game about them, but we don’t know it’s about them until later on in that story. On the other hand, having them be a mystery could be just as fun and we just learn tiny bits through the story in future without it being the main focus.
There's no reason whatsoever that the devs won't continue to teach us about the ancients and their life through other quests, snippets of history and many other things. We know a lot about Mhach, Amdapor, Allagan etc so I fail to see why that would stop with the Ancients.
Here's something I've always been fascinated by when it comes to concepts. In Elpis, we see a lot of creatures that were left on the Ancients' cutting room floor so to speak, namely the creatures we see Hermes have to put down. And yet we see creatures that look just like them even in modern times. It almost seems like concepts have a sort of will to be. It could also explain how something like Bismarck exists in both the Source and the First, or why the races of the reflections and the Source are, at least biologically, identical.
Also a chance the creature concepts were freed and rampant in the wake of the Final Days and subsequent Sundering of the world. Not out of the realm of possibility.
It's kind of implied that one of the sacrifices after Zodiark was created brought the ancestors of the modern races into existence; the Ancients wanted to use them to sustain Zodiark and that's when Venat sundered the world
@@acgearsandarms1343That's more or less my theory... the concepts on Elpis were no longer a priority once the Final Days began, and were either set free or freed themselves.
It could be that seeing the outside is easy to do for most normal Ancients.. But those like Hythlodeas and Hades had an exceptional sight, to the point of being able to use it so casually?
7:15 I was under the impression that the ability to discern the colors of souls was extremely rare. That Hades and Hythlodaeus are the only two ancients we know of who have the ability
Nope. That's quite normal. All the Ancients in Elpis could see your soul and tell you were different, always remarking how strange and thin your aether was.
I'm going to disagree with the scribe on this. Just because they could sense your aether doesn't mean they could see your soul just like how we can feel heat radiating from an object doesn't mean we can see in the infrared.
@@SynodicScribe Are they seeing your soul though, or just that your corporeal aether is unusual? The way Hythlodaeus makes special note about how he and Emet can see the color of souls seems to indicate it's a relatively unusual ability, but that could just be me interpreting wrongly.
@@SetekhTia I thought it was strange as well. But EEv3 elaborated on this and asserted that this heightened aetherial perception wasn't uncommon. So I'm just going by what's written at this point.
I hope that if we get more info about the Ancients, we get to know of other notable people beyond the Convocation of Fourteen, Hytlodaeus and Venat(+her followers who have become the Twelve). I mean, it would be very easy to make any Scenario involving them in some shape or form, including perhaps contact with other, perhaps younger civilizations within it(yes I'm thinking of Solution 9, but it doesn't have to be this specific city, it could be any other)? After all, the seat of Azem in the Convocation is literally based on that aspect, especially when to the average non-ancient, they would be a God descended to the world below. That said, I kind of want to see how Alien civilizations from other Planets saw the Ancients. Also, TRAVANCHET IS ONE OF YOUR SCRIBES? I would be scared if I had to teach this guy of all people about the most Ancient of all Ancient races.
I didn't realize until your framing at the beginning that Etheirys may have been on the edge of falling like the other civilizations that Meteion and her sisters came across. Without strife, disease, etc, I have a feeling the world would have either ended like the Nibirun world, or similar to how the Allagans fell.
How? The ancients unlike both had a actual mission that was positive for the world. This is what both civilization you meanted lacked. A goal that was above themselves and that could push thier peoples to strive for , that didn't bring apathy. While also having strong morale guilds (at the time). They would have likely kept going for another million if not millions of years knowing thier life span. Then peacefully died of after their work was done. Leaveing the world to their creation and the next civilization.
@Gloomdrake Hermes IS a bizarre outlier, in both emotional balance AND his distinct position to create the kind of havoc and calamity that so sundered his world and signed the death warrant of so, so, so many more innocent souls.
@@stephenflint3640 his emotional imbalance is prolly not unique, and it was always inevitable that someone like him would rise to power, because Ancient didn't have the tools to recognize his issues, let alone address them
As an Anthropologist, I appreciate your video. The layering of your explanation on the Ancients culture in parallel to the modern society of the star and your gentle association on how it is analogous to ours is well done.
Honestly, my opinion is that G'raha and Y'shtola are a bit too busy with their own projects to take the WoL Aside and go: "Hey... You can apparently go back to Elpis any time you want, right? You think you could... Y'know... see about getting as much data out of Ktisis Hyperboreia as possible? Oh, and since you have to go through the First on the way, can you stop by Anamnesis Anyder and do the same? Thanks! ;)"
I am really curious about what would have been ancient, to the Ancients. How did they get there, how long did they exist. But I’m also curious as to how much of the Star and it’s flora and fauna was ‘original’. The ancients seem like tinkerers l, always working and improving. But given how long they lived, how much did their environment over time and was it really for the best?
Thank you so much for setting the record straight when it comes to the Ancients and individuality. Ancient Etheirys and Amaurot is my favourite part of the lore and near-and-dear to my heart, it is so nice to see that misunderstanding addressed :) (Edit: amongst others, like their attitude towards arcane entities) (I really do enjoy your videos and the attention to detail you bring to each one)
Gods in all but name but also better and exactly like some depictions of gods. A godlike entity who enjoys creation and concepts but is very responsible with their creations and their impacts. Knowledge is Creation.
I'm curious if you're going by Pre-endwalker lore with the Echo wouldn't all ancients have the echo or wouldn't the echo awoken in all ancient's post final days right when zodark was made? (Partly spell his name wrong but whatever)
Of course! The Echo is simply the re-awakened power of someone who has the sundered soul of an Ancient. So, all Ancients had the Echo. But they didn't call it that, it was simply part of their many powers.
We see it in Primal summoning or corruption. I don’t think it’s a good idea for someone who can’t gather the needed aether for it naturally. Even Summoners. They don’t exactly use transformative magicks on their self to my knowledge. They could in theory, but only like a very limited time given the strain it would put on the caster.
We don't even know what they called themselves. Which might inply that they saw themselves as the only 'people' on the star. And as far as we know, they might have been.
It's mentioned that Azem helps an outside peoples from a disaster, it's clear there are other people on the star but the Ancients appear to mainly ignore them.
I don't believe this is an accurate view -- I think by Azem's the Cousenlor to the People, as a singular entity (as opposed to 'all peoples', pluralized) indicate the Star had one race, and it was the Ancients. There is no indication at any time that there were anything else, because otherwise they'd have to be addressed in text. What is more likely is that outside of Amaurot there were other cities and villages. After all, grapes have to be grown by somebody because you can't Create food with real sustenance value -- since it's just made from the creator's aether. Real food has to be made by the slaughter of beasts and the harvesting of crops, like grapes, which as we all know, Azem found delicious... So they clearly ate farmed food. Honestly, it was probably a rural farming community that was in the way and the Ancients, having emphasized living in Harmony with the nature of the Star, basically felt the volcano eruption was the Star's Will and while the farmland loss would be sad, there was no use changing it. Azem was the rebel who did otherwise. So we probably just have communities of ancients that live in other areas. Not everybody lived in Amaurot. It was simply, as Emet-Selch put it, the greatest city of them all.
@@Amanda-dv4vv It's never made clear, we know Azem was helping people outside the main Ancient civilisation but whether they were an actual different peoples (doesn't make a lot of sense lore wise) or they were genetic Ancients who weren't part of the main society or farmers as you suggest (also doesn't make sense because why would they need help) is never clarified.
Why would they need help? Do you think the average grape farmer on Ethierys could handle a volcanic eruption on his lonesome? I think that the fact we're seeing the creme del la creme of Ancient society-- their government officials, powerful mages, and high placed bureaucrats - is skewing people's viewed of the Ancient's overall power level. There was not an Emet-Selch level sorcerer on every block. Not even an Azem level troublemaker. Most Ancients were anywhere near the power levels or the skill/knowledge levels it took to be invited to the Convocation, or have outstanding traits ala Elidibus' mind for fairness and logic, or so on. Emet-Selch is generally considered the bar on a sheer power level. Even P11 supports this, with Elidibus crying "Emet-Selch could do no better!" mid fight, suggesting that he's used as a rule of measure for other's powers. Add to this that he was well known for his bounteous well of aether and mad skills as a sorcerer. However, Hythlodaeus was cunning and clever with his magic, and downplayed himself a great deal for several reasons -- but he said straight out he couldn't transform if he wanted to. There was a massive power level difference. Joe Average Farmer is not a sorcerer of eld. he cannot stop a volcanic eruption that will force him to uproot his life and move elsewhere and find a new trade or place to practice agriculture. Azem, clever lunatic that they are, tricks their way into getting the tools they need to fix the problem, and then makes sure that Emet-Selch finds out about it, because he knows that Emet-Selch will help. Because the farmer with the grapes said, "Azem, Counselor to the People, who's job is literally to help us, can you please help us?" Joe Average Farmer can't ring up Emet-Selch, Third Seat, Keeper of the Underworld, also called The Redeemer. He doesn't have him on speed dial. But Azem does. Which tells you a few things: Azem wasn't powerful enough to handle all problems single-handedly, but he had access to the biggest gun in Amaurot. If Azem himself needed help to manage the volcano, why would Joe Average Farmer be able to handle the situation? So of course people need help! Even Ancients would need help! Otherwise, if you have a whole race of people on par with Emet-Selch, who is repeatedly noted to be exceptional among his own kind, the Final Days wouldn't have even been a problem. So... yes. Of course there were people who asked for help from the Seat of Azem, whose job is literally , in the text, to travel and meet people to find out how he can 'counsel' them. Sometimes the counsel was "sit tight, grape man!! I just stole a mad awesome construct and Emet-Selch should be cursing my name and flying over on Grani any time now...."
They called themselves "mankind", of course. ...or at least, if the word referred to more than just the ancients, it was never said who those people would be. One of the NPCs remarked that "it is mankind's duty to make the star a better place", and I could not see it referring to any other ancestry.
Couple of thing about the ancients. One is that there are now souls of the ancients in the ethereal sea who can be reborn. That is to say there are unsundered souls. Now that the three main Acians are dead their souls are now able to be reborn. You may make an argument about Lahabrea and Elidibus because they died in not die typical ways, Lahabrea was eaten by a primal and elidibus was absorbed into the crystal tower to be used up like a power source, but Emet Selk was killed in a more traditional fashion, impalement. Meaning, one day an extremely powerful person will be born one day. Such a person could have a huge effect on the world. The other point is that the ancients were a societal dead end. Eventually their civilization would have likely succumbed to stagnation or some other calamity as we saw from the civilizations in Ultimathule. This is because, for all their advancement, they were emotionally immature. There are two examples of this. One is Hermes, Because he could find no fulfillment in the world he became a nihilistic psychopath who desired not only to end his own existence, but the existence of all things. The other example is when the final days were averted the remaining ancients were so desperate to return to their old world rather than rebuild and find the true source of the problem it bordered on obsession. Even when the warnings and questions were staring them in the face they ignored them and only sought their lost blissful lives. They did not even try to learn or grow from the experience. They did not truly rise again, seeking only someone else to pick them up and take care of them while they kept playing with their toys like a child would.
I've never been so invested and interested in a games story and lore. The Ancients absolutely fascinate me and I love them dearly. I'm very worried that we might never see or hear much about their past or culture at all. Endwalker basically broke my heart and soul with Hythlo and Emet vanishing. I dearly hope we still get some snippets regarding that civilization. Theres too much I want to know still. (Not to mention how unhealthily I'm posessed and in love with Hades... god I miss my grump so much ;-;)
Pretty good vid. Only a couple o' caveats: 1) Not all Ascians possessed Soul Sight or Creation Magicks. They wore robes and masks to unite as a community under a dress code, not because they could all peer at each other's souls. (and iirc that was said to be rude to do on purpose, as well) And even among the ones that did have soul sight, there was a buncha varying degrees to the depths and distances which one could peer. 2) You left out the one thing that ALL Ascians did possess, and that is what we know as, "The Echo." Which in Japanese is just called, "Transcending Power." Whereas people who possess The Echo in present times generally only get a couple of its powers, the Ascians in ancient times had all of its effects and complete control over it. If they desired, they could look at the memories of a person or an area using it. Of course, the story shied away from showing it more than once in our little trot through Elpis, because it creates plot holes/inconsistencies wherever it actually impacts the course of the story (and it probably actually would have varied person to person but we weren't shown or told otherwise). Thanks for the lunch break fun o/
So I know this us unrelated to the video, but I have to ask it. FFx-2, do you think Psychic as a playable job in a later expansion for FFXIV is possible or am I just coping? X-2 to my knowledge is the only time psychic has appeared in final fantasy and i was always super intrigued by it and would love to see it in FFXIV. I'd love to hear your thoughts
The society of the Ancients has a lot of nice concepts but when you examine it slightly below the surface it doesn't add up. To even make it work you have to place the society at it's pinnacle probably something or somewhere far, far, far, far, far, far down the line from where it started. Being who have such a powerful innate ability while starting from scratch would've wreaked untold havoc on each other. Imagine being really angry for the first time and just imagining a monster eating a person you're angry at. Any society would go wild that way, for a long time - or a brutally short one. They are more shown as gods and not God. In this way, you could say they are something like the idea of angels or at least a higher entity than man. I think it's interesting that this type of society, with this kind of power, is conceived at this time of our own history. The things they care about are generally the things cared about by most of our own ancient ancestors but reframed with modern lenses.
I think rather than the sui generis supreme being of Abrahamic religions, they are more like the gods of Greek mythology, powerful but far from omnipotent, and indeed far from invulnerable.
You mention that the arcane entities do not initially have souls upon creation, but their offspring when brought into the natural cycle. Checks out, as far as I can tell, but then I remembered Alpha from the omega raid. They were also an arcane entity, but seemingly developed as soul as the raid series progressed. The how of it remains unclear, and they could just be an exception in the end, but it does imply that arcane entities can independently gain souls under the right circumstances. Something to ponder, at the very least.
You're right! There are a few exceptions to the rule. But exceptions don't undo everything else. That's the funny lore behind souls in the FFXIV universe. There are multiple parts in the MSQ and side content where the writers kinda just do what they want. So at some point you gotta throw you hands up and just say. "Souls are mysterious and spooky." haha
@@SynodicScribe I find it realistic that much of the workings of the world (or "worldview"), including matters of the soul, are beyond the knowledge of even Sharlayan scholars like Krile or Matoya.
I'm just glad seeing the ancients finally prove gaelicats are in fact not voidsent, and look forward to never hearing people spread misinformation on the cute flying cats again.
I mean the Ea appeared to be even more intellectually advanced than the Ancients but we never saw anyone with the sheer power of an Ancient. I suspect they were the most potent and dense aetheric entities in the universe (no one else resisted Meteion) but they weren't necessarily the most knowledgeable or oldest.
@@chrisanderson7820 The Nibirun and Omicrons in particular. Wasn’t exactly considering the Ea because they forgo body and enlightened culture. But by Hydaelyn’s words, other worlds did exist more prosperous than Etheirys that fell. Point is they did exist at one point.
What i find really fascinating about the ancients, is that a major part of their history is only mentioned once in a throwaway line and is treated as if its something that every ancient should know already. The fact that the ancients are *not from etheris.* A brief conversation about how the star got its name mentions that their ancestors *found* etheris while searching the stars for a new home. So the ancients are aliens that left their home and came to live on etheris, and this detail is never mentioned again. Which just raises even more questions. Where did they come from? What happened to their original star? Did they leave it because they wanted to explore or did something happen to it? Did *all* of the ancients settle on etheris, was ethiris only one colony that lost contact with their homeworld? Are there still living ancients on other stars? If so, how did they react to the final days?
Actually all the Ancients in Elpis were under the assumption we were one of Azem's familiars. And since we bore a fraction of Azem's Aether, most happily waved it aside. However, it was proven that some were still confused by our soul and knowledge.
Maybe I need some clarification. So their creations didn't have souls but their offspring could? Unfortunately, I doubt we'll get any additional information on this but this does confuse me a little bit. I only ask because it seemed Hermes some concepts as though they did have souls but maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
If you create something with magic. It doesn't have a soul, no matter how realistic it is. Because souls are to complicated/abstract to create. However. If something is born or comes into the world through natural means, then a soul from the aetherial realm will become part of it. If something lacking a soul has offspring, those descendants have the chance to gain souls because they're now following the natural order. Just about every creature in Elpis was an Arcane Entity, a soulless being. Even the ones Hermes got emotional over.
@@davidpower5710 In a way yeah. I don't even think they were his concepts. He got mad over someone else's OC getting deleted. While his bird girls were dying out in space. lol
@@SynodicScribe Hmmm... my interpretation of the dialogue in the quest Lives Apart wasn't that all life made through creation magic were arcane entities but rather that only creations that adhered to the laws of nature would manifest souls. So their creations could have souls, but the ancients couldn't decide which creations would have them, only nature did. After all, when asked if Meteion is a living being or an arcane entity, Hermes responds that he doesn't know, which indicates to me that it's possible she - and by extension other creations - can have souls.
At the moment. No. Their similarity in appearance likely is just the design team re-using assets. But they might change their mind in the future! Who knows.
Given some of the events of Pandaemonium, and Athena's aspirations at a form of godhood, one thing that wasn't quite clear to me was what was the relationship between "gods" and the ancients. What is a god to an ancient? They have creation magic, have an existence that is above that of regular people in our time period, and can even assume greater forms. You could easily argue they are like gods compared to the current sundered reality. Ofc you could have an even stronger ancient capable of greater feats, I just wonder if they had a conception of a higher being even when in the ancient time, and what that would be.
To be honest there was nothing greater than them at the time. Some historical lore says that Ancients were both gods and men, and their power certainly proves that. But they still believed in things that could be stronger than themselves. Zodiark and Hydaelyn for example.
So I've been a bit confused by something for a while. Is every living person, not animal or other living entities, but actual people, a sundered Ancient? Or are only some sundered Ancients and most are simply souls that have been created over time and placed into bodies as they're born? Can there only be so many people per reflection alive at the same time with a fragment of an ancients soul, or are they simply a (soul wise) small piece of something much larger, while most people are a whole and complete soul, just simply the same in strength/aetherical makeup of an Ancients fragment?
This specific thing is something that I have wanted to research my own but it gets so easily overwhelming trying to comb through all the information we have and piecing it together into an understandable story. I was leaning more towards everyone being sundered Ancients since Elidibus awoken the echo in many on the First, and even Alisae (if im remembering correctly) mentioned at one point during all that feeling a sense of loss or like... feeling of missing something. But you mentioned how the creations, after being let out into the world, would create offspring that would then bear souls of their own since they came about the natural way, which has me wondering now if the majority of the people alive today, across the reflections, bear souls entirely different to those of Ancients, and were simply create way later, or if people are just different than other lifeforms and they can only recycle souls, or fragments of souls, where as other animals and creatures souls work different.
When Hydaelyn struck Zodiark and the world, all was sundered. The Ancients, the planet, all life upon the world and even the souls resting in the aetherial realm were split into the Source and its 13 Reflections. The only exceptions being the Three Unsundered, Emet-Selch, Lahabrea, and Elidibus. As for your following questions. Life simply flows as it must. When something is born it gains a soul, when it dies, the soul returns to heart of the Star. Over and over this happens. It's only by random chance that someone may or may not have an Ancient's soul.
@SynodicScribe So could a person be given the soul of another creature in the current time? And was it every living being even outside of their world that was sundered as well? So like, one could be born with the soul of someone from another world instead of an ancient, or was it just that world and not everyone was an ancient? This shows just how little I know of the actual lore haha.
@@Yoshiepic No no no, not at all. Hydaelyn's Sundering only affected our Star and everything on it. The rest of the universe was untouched by what she did. And no, sundered souls of the Source wouldn't suddenly travel through space to other worlds.
@SynodicScribe Oh okay! That makes more sense than what I thought haha. So it's just random chance someone has a soul of an ancient, while others just have other souls?
The way the Ancients and their governing of the world looks reminds me a lot of the third part of the Dead Ends dungeon, where they figured everything out as well and eradicated everything that was bad and left only positive things that suited their star. They, presumably, also had a very flourishing and thriving civilization at some point. One that, when they still had challenges to overcome and curiousities to explore, was alive and thriving. And then eventually they got to a point where they didn't care any more. All the things they wanted to eliminate, had been. All the curiosities they wanted to sate, had been. There was nothing left for them to do. They couldn't even die on their own, because they had eliminated that as well. So they made a beast that could take their life and end their eternal boredom and wherever it shows up, they flock towards the damn thing, all too happy and eager to embrace death. To me, the Ancient's world feels a lot like that world before they got bored with everything. When they still had things to strive for and their imagination and lust for exploration still got sparked. Had the ancient's world lasted long enough, perhaps they would have shared the fate of that world, many, many years from the point we were brought to. The Ancients still understood and respected the concept of death and made rules to allow themselves to pass on, after certain tasks and accomplishments were done, but who's to say that couldn't have changed over many millennia. Just something to think about.
It is in fact, intentional. As in interviews they mentioned that the third world in The Dead Ends is meant to represent what could've happened to the Ancients. The cutscene where they summon the boss fight is meant to mirror how the Ancients summoned Zodiark.
Himself and people like him were able to see thing with uncanny clarity yes. But being able to discern souls turned out to be a common Ancient ability.
Why is it that in all of the other planets we see - none of them are as big or as powerful as the Ancients? If that's what it looks like to be "pre sundered" why don't we see others like them. On our little trip through all of the dead planets found by Meteion - Only the dragons are as large if not larger and as powerful.
🤔 hum thank you for information 😅 I thought astral connected to Lufenians or they connected to omega creation 🤔 kinda silly theroy probably because I just finished stranger to paradise ff Thank you for info and have good days 🍻👍
From what we understand. They never did that since it flew in the face of Emet-Selch's position to oversee the health and balance of the Aetherial Realm.
@@SynodicScribe fair point. Though that one monster from the Pandemonium questline might be proof to the possibility of such being possible. Not done lightly to be sure, but possible
@@Wanderingsage7 I postulate that such research was actually the main issue with (Spoilers!) Athena’s project. The research that made her project anathema was its focus on the manipulation of souls. And going by how Lahabrea reacted to learning the details of Athena’s project, the knowledge of even how to do it was likely unknown to anyone else, which prompted him to purge the knowledge from his memory; he couldn’t risk it becoming known, even by himself.
Does this imply that the various creatures of modern Etheirys are all souless seeing as how they are the surviving creations of the ancients? Frogs, cactuars, morbols, behemoths, etc?
The Ancients look upon your glam and find you wanting.
They're unimpressed by Ultimate Weapons. lol
Too weak and feeble-minded to serve as aestheticians of any star.
@@JosephHeiskell Redolent Rose shall be our Savior
@@BastetMusic makes me wonder who the Ancient counterpart of Redolent Rose is.
@@LemonedIScream13The one who produced the sophist robe concept?
It is in my headcanon that Azem came up with the concept of Chocobos.
Azem DAMN SURE created the platypus
The concept of souls having a hue was hinted at in Heavensward. During the Alchemist Job quests, it is a plot point that an alchemist's aetherial signature is used to draw arcane geometries and that it is unique to each alchemist (Source "What Death Can Join Together").
Honestly I am a bit sad that we are most likely not going to learn anything more about the Ancients. I think the idea of them is really cool and seeing what the world and people were like before the sundering is really neat.
Maybe in a far off expansion. Or through extra media like more short stories. Or let’s go crazy, maybe another FF game about them, but we don’t know it’s about them until later on in that story.
On the other hand, having them be a mystery could be just as fun and we just learn tiny bits through the story in future without it being the main focus.
I would be all over a plotline that saw a new reset in the future, where you made a new WOL in the future and also met the reborn Hythlo and Hades .
Never say never. We've seen one more Ascian symbol in Dawntrail art.
You can blame Venat for that. Both Narratively and IRL.
There's no reason whatsoever that the devs won't continue to teach us about the ancients and their life through other quests, snippets of history and many other things. We know a lot about Mhach, Amdapor, Allagan etc so I fail to see why that would stop with the Ancients.
Here's something I've always been fascinated by when it comes to concepts. In Elpis, we see a lot of creatures that were left on the Ancients' cutting room floor so to speak, namely the creatures we see Hermes have to put down. And yet we see creatures that look just like them even in modern times. It almost seems like concepts have a sort of will to be. It could also explain how something like Bismarck exists in both the Source and the First, or why the races of the reflections and the Source are, at least biologically, identical.
Also a chance the creature concepts were freed and rampant in the wake of the Final Days and subsequent Sundering of the world. Not out of the realm of possibility.
It's kind of implied that one of the sacrifices after Zodiark was created brought the ancestors of the modern races into existence; the Ancients wanted to use them to sustain Zodiark and that's when Venat sundered the world
@@acgearsandarms1343That's more or less my theory... the concepts on Elpis were no longer a priority once the Final Days began, and were either set free or freed themselves.
The scene at 7:59 really took me back to the moment in FFIX where the group encounters the stone faces that speak the recorded history of Tera.
7:30 isn't the "being able to see souls" part a very rare trait?
That was my understanding too. It was one of the reasons why Hades was accepted for the Emit-Selch, right?
It could be that seeing the outside is easy to do for most normal Ancients.. But those like Hythlodeas and Hades had an exceptional sight, to the point of being able to use it so casually?
7:15 I was under the impression that the ability to discern the colors of souls was extremely rare. That Hades and Hythlodaeus are the only two ancients we know of who have the ability
Nope. That's quite normal. All the Ancients in Elpis could see your soul and tell you were different, always remarking how strange and thin your aether was.
I'm going to disagree with the scribe on this. Just because they could sense your aether doesn't mean they could see your soul just like how we can feel heat radiating from an object doesn't mean we can see in the infrared.
@@SynodicScribe Are they seeing your soul though, or just that your corporeal aether is unusual? The way Hythlodaeus makes special note about how he and Emet can see the color of souls seems to indicate it's a relatively unusual ability, but that could just be me interpreting wrongly.
@@SetekhTia I thought it was strange as well. But EEv3 elaborated on this and asserted that this heightened aetherial perception wasn't uncommon. So I'm just going by what's written at this point.
@@SynodicScribe Maybe it's just that the degree to which Hythlodaeus and Emet could do so was unusual
I know we're very unlikely to learn anything more about the Ancients, but I do so love hearing about them. Thanks for putting up this video, Scribe!
I'm so excited to hear you'll be covering different facets of the Ancients. This was a neat lore video, thank you!
I hope that if we get more info about the Ancients, we get to know of other notable people beyond the Convocation of Fourteen, Hytlodaeus and Venat(+her followers who have become the Twelve).
I mean, it would be very easy to make any Scenario involving them in some shape or form, including perhaps contact with other, perhaps younger civilizations within it(yes I'm thinking of Solution 9, but it doesn't have to be this specific city, it could be any other)? After all, the seat of Azem in the Convocation is literally based on that aspect, especially when to the average non-ancient, they would be a God descended to the world below.
That said, I kind of want to see how Alien civilizations from other Planets saw the Ancients.
Also, TRAVANCHET IS ONE OF YOUR SCRIBES? I would be scared if I had to teach this guy of all people about the most Ancient of all Ancient races.
I didn't realize until your framing at the beginning that Etheirys may have been on the edge of falling like the other civilizations that Meteion and her sisters came across. Without strife, disease, etc, I have a feeling the world would have either ended like the Nibirun world, or similar to how the Allagans fell.
Well get into that later! Unfortunately I felt like 20min was already long enough for this lore dump. haha
How? The ancients unlike both had a actual mission that was positive for the world. This is what both civilization you meanted lacked. A goal that was above themselves and that could push thier peoples to strive for , that didn't bring apathy.
While also having strong morale guilds (at the time). They would have likely kept going for another million if not millions of years knowing thier life span. Then peacefully died of after their work was done. Leaveing the world to their creation and the next civilization.
@@davidpower5710it’s unlikely that Hermes was an outlier
@Gloomdrake Hermes IS a bizarre outlier, in both emotional balance AND his distinct position to create the kind of havoc and calamity that so sundered his world and signed the death warrant of so, so, so many more innocent souls.
@@stephenflint3640 his emotional imbalance is prolly not unique, and it was always inevitable that someone like him would rise to power, because Ancient didn't have the tools to recognize his issues, let alone address them
As an Anthropologist, I appreciate your video. The layering of your explanation on the Ancients culture in parallel to the modern society of the star and your gentle association on how it is analogous to ours is well done.
Thank you! Always happy to hear someone appreciate thorough research. haha
Honestly, my opinion is that G'raha and Y'shtola are a bit too busy with their own projects to take the WoL Aside and go:
"Hey... You can apparently go back to Elpis any time you want, right? You think you could... Y'know... see about getting as much data out of Ktisis Hyperboreia as possible?
Oh, and since you have to go through the First on the way, can you stop by Anamnesis Anyder and do the same? Thanks! ;)"
My favorite topic, always gives me chills. Excited for the deeper dives to come!
Palpatine: Did someone say "unnatural"?
Amazing video! Loved every second of it.
I am really curious about what would have been ancient, to the Ancients. How did they get there, how long did they exist. But I’m also curious as to how much of the Star and it’s flora and fauna was ‘original’. The ancients seem like tinkerers l, always working and improving. But given how long they lived, how much did their environment over time and was it really for the best?
Mysteries we might never have the answers to!
Would it have been a bad idea for the XIV dev team to call them Cetra? The Ancients of FFVII?
@@acgearsandarms1343 Who knows. Maybe that's a bit to on the nose even for them. haha
Thank you so much for setting the record straight when it comes to the Ancients and individuality.
Ancient Etheirys and Amaurot is my favourite part of the lore and near-and-dear to my heart, it is so nice to see that misunderstanding addressed :)
(Edit: amongst others, like their attitude towards arcane entities)
(I really do enjoy your videos and the attention to detail you bring to each one)
Gods in all but name but also better and exactly like some depictions of gods. A godlike entity who enjoys creation and concepts but is very responsible with their creations and their impacts. Knowledge is Creation.
I'm curious if you're going by Pre-endwalker lore with the Echo wouldn't all ancients have the echo or wouldn't the echo awoken in all ancient's post final days right when zodark was made? (Partly spell his name wrong but whatever)
Of course! The Echo is simply the re-awakened power of someone who has the sundered soul of an Ancient. So, all Ancients had the Echo. But they didn't call it that, it was simply part of their many powers.
Transformation magic is extremely fascinating. Makes me wonder how the 7th Astral might use it. I.E. Summoner
Maybe mixing part of their soul with a summon that closely matchs thier personality?
We see it in Primal summoning or corruption. I don’t think it’s a good idea for someone who can’t gather the needed aether for it naturally. Even Summoners. They don’t exactly use transformative magicks on their self to my knowledge. They could in theory, but only like a very limited time given the strain it would put on the caster.
We don't even know what they called themselves. Which might inply that they saw themselves as the only 'people' on the star. And as far as we know, they might have been.
It's mentioned that Azem helps an outside peoples from a disaster, it's clear there are other people on the star but the Ancients appear to mainly ignore them.
I don't believe this is an accurate view -- I think by Azem's the Cousenlor to the People, as a singular entity (as opposed to 'all peoples', pluralized) indicate the Star had one race, and it was the Ancients. There is no indication at any time that there were anything else, because otherwise they'd have to be addressed in text. What is more likely is that outside of Amaurot there were other cities and villages. After all, grapes have to be grown by somebody because you can't Create food with real sustenance value -- since it's just made from the creator's aether. Real food has to be made by the slaughter of beasts and the harvesting of crops, like grapes, which as we all know, Azem found delicious... So they clearly ate farmed food. Honestly, it was probably a rural farming community that was in the way and the Ancients, having emphasized living in Harmony with the nature of the Star, basically felt the volcano eruption was the Star's Will and while the farmland loss would be sad, there was no use changing it. Azem was the rebel who did otherwise.
So we probably just have communities of ancients that live in other areas. Not everybody lived in Amaurot. It was simply, as Emet-Selch put it, the greatest city of them all.
@@Amanda-dv4vv It's never made clear, we know Azem was helping people outside the main Ancient civilisation but whether they were an actual different peoples (doesn't make a lot of sense lore wise) or they were genetic Ancients who weren't part of the main society or farmers as you suggest (also doesn't make sense because why would they need help) is never clarified.
Why would they need help? Do you think the average grape farmer on Ethierys could handle a volcanic eruption on his lonesome? I think that the fact we're seeing the creme del la creme of Ancient society-- their government officials, powerful mages, and high placed bureaucrats - is skewing people's viewed of the Ancient's overall power level. There was not an Emet-Selch level sorcerer on every block. Not even an Azem level troublemaker. Most Ancients were anywhere near the power levels or the skill/knowledge levels it took to be invited to the Convocation, or have outstanding traits ala Elidibus' mind for fairness and logic, or so on.
Emet-Selch is generally considered the bar on a sheer power level. Even P11 supports this, with Elidibus crying "Emet-Selch could do no better!" mid fight, suggesting that he's used as a rule of measure for other's powers. Add to this that he was well known for his bounteous well of aether and mad skills as a sorcerer. However, Hythlodaeus was cunning and clever with his magic, and downplayed himself a great deal for several reasons -- but he said straight out he couldn't transform if he wanted to. There was a massive power level difference.
Joe Average Farmer is not a sorcerer of eld. he cannot stop a volcanic eruption that will force him to uproot his life and move elsewhere and find a new trade or place to practice agriculture. Azem, clever lunatic that they are, tricks their way into getting the tools they need to fix the problem, and then makes sure that Emet-Selch finds out about it, because he knows that Emet-Selch will help. Because the farmer with the grapes said, "Azem, Counselor to the People, who's job is literally to help us, can you please help us?"
Joe Average Farmer can't ring up Emet-Selch, Third Seat, Keeper of the Underworld, also called The Redeemer. He doesn't have him on speed dial. But Azem does. Which tells you a few things: Azem wasn't powerful enough to handle all problems single-handedly, but he had access to the biggest gun in Amaurot. If Azem himself needed help to manage the volcano, why would Joe Average Farmer be able to handle the situation?
So of course people need help! Even Ancients would need help! Otherwise, if you have a whole race of people on par with Emet-Selch, who is repeatedly noted to be exceptional among his own kind, the Final Days wouldn't have even been a problem. So... yes. Of course there were people who asked for help from the Seat of Azem, whose job is literally , in the text, to travel and meet people to find out how he can 'counsel' them. Sometimes the counsel was "sit tight, grape man!! I just stole a mad awesome construct and Emet-Selch should be cursing my name and flying over on Grani any time now...."
They called themselves "mankind", of course.
...or at least, if the word referred to more than just the ancients, it was never said who those people would be. One of the NPCs remarked that "it is mankind's duty to make the star a better place", and I could not see it referring to any other ancestry.
Great video!
Couple of thing about the ancients. One is that there are now souls of the ancients in the ethereal sea who can be reborn. That is to say there are unsundered souls. Now that the three main Acians are dead their souls are now able to be reborn. You may make an argument about Lahabrea and Elidibus because they died in not die typical ways, Lahabrea was eaten by a primal and elidibus was absorbed into the crystal tower to be used up like a power source, but Emet Selk was killed in a more traditional fashion, impalement. Meaning, one day an extremely powerful person will be born one day. Such a person could have a huge effect on the world.
The other point is that the ancients were a societal dead end. Eventually their civilization would have likely succumbed to stagnation or some other calamity as we saw from the civilizations in Ultimathule. This is because, for all their advancement, they were emotionally immature. There are two examples of this. One is Hermes, Because he could find no fulfillment in the world he became a nihilistic psychopath who desired not only to end his own existence, but the existence of all things.
The other example is when the final days were averted the remaining ancients were so desperate to return to their old world rather than rebuild and find the true source of the problem it bordered on obsession. Even when the warnings and questions were staring them in the face they ignored them and only sought their lost blissful lives. They did not even try to learn or grow from the experience. They did not truly rise again, seeking only someone else to pick them up and take care of them while they kept playing with their toys like a child would.
This ladies and gentlemen is what we call genocide apologism.
I've never been so invested and interested in a games story and lore. The Ancients absolutely fascinate me and I love them dearly. I'm very worried that we might never see or hear much about their past or culture at all. Endwalker basically broke my heart and soul with Hythlo and Emet vanishing.
I dearly hope we still get some snippets regarding that civilization. Theres too much I want to know still.
(Not to mention how unhealthily I'm posessed and in love with Hades... god I miss my grump so much ;-;)
Pretty good vid. Only a couple o' caveats:
1) Not all Ascians possessed Soul Sight or Creation Magicks. They wore robes and masks to unite as a community under a dress code, not because they could all peer at each other's souls. (and iirc that was said to be rude to do on purpose, as well) And even among the ones that did have soul sight, there was a buncha varying degrees to the depths and distances which one could peer.
2) You left out the one thing that ALL Ascians did possess, and that is what we know as, "The Echo." Which in Japanese is just called, "Transcending Power." Whereas people who possess The Echo in present times generally only get a couple of its powers, the Ascians in ancient times had all of its effects and complete control over it. If they desired, they could look at the memories of a person or an area using it. Of course, the story shied away from showing it more than once in our little trot through Elpis, because it creates plot holes/inconsistencies wherever it actually impacts the course of the story (and it probably actually would have varied person to person but we weren't shown or told otherwise).
Thanks for the lunch break fun o/
Loved this video!
So I know this us unrelated to the video, but I have to ask it. FFx-2, do you think Psychic as a playable job in a later expansion for FFXIV is possible or am I just coping? X-2 to my knowledge is the only time psychic has appeared in final fantasy and i was always super intrigued by it and would love to see it in FFXIV. I'd love to hear your thoughts
1:49 Aren't they physically closer to Elezen, though? Outside of their small Hyur ears, physically, they're clearly Elezen, physically wise.
hey what ffxiv song in the bgm do you use?
Good Video i look forward to the next Video
This is why I love the Ancients
I figured it out. Synodic Scribe IS the last ancient.
The society of the Ancients has a lot of nice concepts but when you examine it slightly below the surface it doesn't add up. To even make it work you have to place the society at it's pinnacle probably something or somewhere far, far, far, far, far, far down the line from where it started. Being who have such a powerful innate ability while starting from scratch would've wreaked untold havoc on each other. Imagine being really angry for the first time and just imagining a monster eating a person you're angry at. Any society would go wild that way, for a long time - or a brutally short one.
They are more shown as gods and not God. In this way, you could say they are something like the idea of angels or at least a higher entity than man. I think it's interesting that this type of society, with this kind of power, is conceived at this time of our own history. The things they care about are generally the things cared about by most of our own ancient ancestors but reframed with modern lenses.
I think rather than the sui generis supreme being of Abrahamic religions, they are more like the gods of Greek mythology, powerful but far from omnipotent, and indeed far from invulnerable.
You mention that the arcane entities do not initially have souls upon creation, but their offspring when brought into the natural cycle. Checks out, as far as I can tell, but then I remembered Alpha from the omega raid. They were also an arcane entity, but seemingly developed as soul as the raid series progressed. The how of it remains unclear, and they could just be an exception in the end, but it does imply that arcane entities can independently gain souls under the right circumstances.
Something to ponder, at the very least.
You're right! There are a few exceptions to the rule. But exceptions don't undo everything else.
That's the funny lore behind souls in the FFXIV universe. There are multiple parts in the MSQ and side content where the writers kinda just do what they want. So at some point you gotta throw you hands up and just say. "Souls are mysterious and spooky." haha
@@SynodicScribe I find it realistic that much of the workings of the world (or "worldview"), including matters of the soul, are beyond the knowledge of even Sharlayan scholars like Krile or Matoya.
I'm just glad seeing the ancients finally prove gaelicats are in fact not voidsent, and look forward to never hearing people spread misinformation on the cute flying cats again.
Funnily enough, other races in the cosmos also had proficiency in changing form with aether or had abilities or technology similar to creation magics.
I mean the Ea appeared to be even more intellectually advanced than the Ancients but we never saw anyone with the sheer power of an Ancient. I suspect they were the most potent and dense aetheric entities in the universe (no one else resisted Meteion) but they weren't necessarily the most knowledgeable or oldest.
@@chrisanderson7820 The Nibirun and Omicrons in particular. Wasn’t exactly considering the Ea because they forgo body and enlightened culture. But by Hydaelyn’s words, other worlds did exist more prosperous than Etheirys that fell. Point is they did exist at one point.
What i find really fascinating about the ancients, is that a major part of their history is only mentioned once in a throwaway line and is treated as if its something that every ancient should know already. The fact that the ancients are *not from etheris.* A brief conversation about how the star got its name mentions that their ancestors *found* etheris while searching the stars for a new home. So the ancients are aliens that left their home and came to live on etheris, and this detail is never mentioned again.
Which just raises even more questions. Where did they come from? What happened to their original star? Did they leave it because they wanted to explore or did something happen to it? Did *all* of the ancients settle on etheris, was ethiris only one colony that lost contact with their homeworld?
Are there still living ancients on other stars? If so, how did they react to the final days?
Did the two we meet in elpis think the WoL was a humanoid offspring that shared Asem's soul color?
That must break a thousand creation protocols
Actually all the Ancients in Elpis were under the assumption we were one of Azem's familiars. And since we bore a fraction of Azem's Aether, most happily waved it aside. However, it was proven that some were still confused by our soul and knowledge.
iirc they were just like “haha that’s azem! always be doing weird things!”
@@frogvie3624 "Oh you're Azem's familiar? Well that just explains everything!" haha
@@frogvie3624 Do you think Azem did employ a familiar? Like Venat with Argos?
I thought Soul Sight was an uncommon ability among the Ancients
They say that, but then quests and book lore said recognizing souls was common. Up to you. lol
@@SynodicScribe maybe its just that the strength of one's Soul Sight just veries
“They could’ve become Gods or Arbitors….”
That would be crazy, heh, if something like that happened 😅👀
Maybe I need some clarification. So their creations didn't have souls but their offspring could? Unfortunately, I doubt we'll get any additional information on this but this does confuse me a little bit. I only ask because it seemed Hermes some concepts as though they did have souls but maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
If you create something with magic. It doesn't have a soul, no matter how realistic it is. Because souls are to complicated/abstract to create.
However. If something is born or comes into the world through natural means, then a soul from the aetherial realm will become part of it. If something lacking a soul has offspring, those descendants have the chance to gain souls because they're now following the natural order.
Just about every creature in Elpis was an Arcane Entity, a soulless being. Even the ones Hermes got emotional over.
@@SynodicScribe so in a way hermes got mad over his oc getting deleted?
@@davidpower5710 In a way yeah. I don't even think they were his concepts. He got mad over someone else's OC getting deleted. While his bird girls were dying out in space. lol
@@SynodicScribe Hmmm... my interpretation of the dialogue in the quest Lives Apart wasn't that all life made through creation magic were arcane entities but rather that only creations that adhered to the laws of nature would manifest souls. So their creations could have souls, but the ancients couldn't decide which creations would have them, only nature did. After all, when asked if Meteion is a living being or an arcane entity, Hermes responds that he doesn't know, which indicates to me that it's possible she - and by extension other creations - can have souls.
@@SynodicScribe sir you manage to make my option of the man somehow drop even lower xD gg.
Is there something connecting concepts to memoria crystals?
At the moment. No. Their similarity in appearance likely is just the design team re-using assets. But they might change their mind in the future! Who knows.
My thought was interferring Ascians
Given some of the events of Pandaemonium, and Athena's aspirations at a form of godhood, one thing that wasn't quite clear to me was what was the relationship between "gods" and the ancients. What is a god to an ancient? They have creation magic, have an existence that is above that of regular people in our time period, and can even assume greater forms. You could easily argue they are like gods compared to the current sundered reality. Ofc you could have an even stronger ancient capable of greater feats, I just wonder if they had a conception of a higher being even when in the ancient time, and what that would be.
To be honest there was nothing greater than them at the time. Some historical lore says that Ancients were both gods and men, and their power certainly proves that.
But they still believed in things that could be stronger than themselves. Zodiark and Hydaelyn for example.
Here's to hoping we get more from Solution 9
So I've been a bit confused by something for a while. Is every living person, not animal or other living entities, but actual people, a sundered Ancient? Or are only some sundered Ancients and most are simply souls that have been created over time and placed into bodies as they're born? Can there only be so many people per reflection alive at the same time with a fragment of an ancients soul, or are they simply a (soul wise) small piece of something much larger, while most people are a whole and complete soul, just simply the same in strength/aetherical makeup of an Ancients fragment?
This specific thing is something that I have wanted to research my own but it gets so easily overwhelming trying to comb through all the information we have and piecing it together into an understandable story. I was leaning more towards everyone being sundered Ancients since Elidibus awoken the echo in many on the First, and even Alisae (if im remembering correctly) mentioned at one point during all that feeling a sense of loss or like... feeling of missing something. But you mentioned how the creations, after being let out into the world, would create offspring that would then bear souls of their own since they came about the natural way, which has me wondering now if the majority of the people alive today, across the reflections, bear souls entirely different to those of Ancients, and were simply create way later, or if people are just different than other lifeforms and they can only recycle souls, or fragments of souls, where as other animals and creatures souls work different.
When Hydaelyn struck Zodiark and the world, all was sundered. The Ancients, the planet, all life upon the world and even the souls resting in the aetherial realm were split into the Source and its 13 Reflections. The only exceptions being the Three Unsundered, Emet-Selch, Lahabrea, and Elidibus.
As for your following questions. Life simply flows as it must. When something is born it gains a soul, when it dies, the soul returns to heart of the Star. Over and over this happens. It's only by random chance that someone may or may not have an Ancient's soul.
@SynodicScribe So could a person be given the soul of another creature in the current time? And was it every living being even outside of their world that was sundered as well? So like, one could be born with the soul of someone from another world instead of an ancient, or was it just that world and not everyone was an ancient? This shows just how little I know of the actual lore haha.
@@Yoshiepic No no no, not at all. Hydaelyn's Sundering only affected our Star and everything on it. The rest of the universe was untouched by what she did.
And no, sundered souls of the Source wouldn't suddenly travel through space to other worlds.
@SynodicScribe Oh okay! That makes more sense than what I thought haha. So it's just random chance someone has a soul of an ancient, while others just have other souls?
The way the Ancients and their governing of the world looks reminds me a lot of the third part of the Dead Ends dungeon, where they figured everything out as well and eradicated everything that was bad and left only positive things that suited their star. They, presumably, also had a very flourishing and thriving civilization at some point. One that, when they still had challenges to overcome and curiousities to explore, was alive and thriving. And then eventually they got to a point where they didn't care any more. All the things they wanted to eliminate, had been. All the curiosities they wanted to sate, had been. There was nothing left for them to do. They couldn't even die on their own, because they had eliminated that as well. So they made a beast that could take their life and end their eternal boredom and wherever it shows up, they flock towards the damn thing, all too happy and eager to embrace death.
To me, the Ancient's world feels a lot like that world before they got bored with everything. When they still had things to strive for and their imagination and lust for exploration still got sparked. Had the ancient's world lasted long enough, perhaps they would have shared the fate of that world, many, many years from the point we were brought to. The Ancients still understood and respected the concept of death and made rules to allow themselves to pass on, after certain tasks and accomplishments were done, but who's to say that couldn't have changed over many millennia. Just something to think about.
It is in fact, intentional.
As in interviews they mentioned that the third world in The Dead Ends is meant to represent what could've happened to the Ancients.
The cutscene where they summon the boss fight is meant to mirror how the Ancients summoned Zodiark.
I thought Emet selc was apart of a few of the anxient who could see the color of the soul?
Himself and people like him were able to see thing with uncanny clarity yes. But being able to discern souls turned out to be a common Ancient ability.
Why is it that in all of the other planets we see - none of them are as big or as powerful as the Ancients? If that's what it looks like to be "pre sundered" why don't we see others like them. On our little trip through all of the dead planets found by Meteion - Only the dragons are as large if not larger and as powerful.
wait so are concepts supposed to be proto-job crystals?
I wish they would make a kelpie mount sigh
🤔 hum thank you for information
😅 I thought astral connected to Lufenians or they connected to omega creation 🤔 kinda silly theroy probably because I just finished stranger to paradise ff
Thank you for info and have good days 🍻👍
🤔 who knows probobly later ffxiv dlc shows us omega planet and Lufenians connection or the true villain who give them power a wild theory 😅🍻👍
I wonder if they *could* have plucked a soul from the underworld and put it in an arcane entity?
From what we understand. They never did that since it flew in the face of Emet-Selch's position to oversee the health and balance of the Aetherial Realm.
@@SynodicScribe fair point. Though that one monster from the Pandemonium questline might be proof to the possibility of such being possible. Not done lightly to be sure, but possible
@@Wanderingsage7 I postulate that such research was actually the main issue with (Spoilers!)
Athena’s project. The research that made her project anathema was its focus on the manipulation of souls. And going by how Lahabrea reacted to learning the details of Athena’s project, the knowledge of even how to do it was likely unknown to anyone else, which prompted him to purge the knowledge from his memory; he couldn’t risk it becoming known, even by himself.
"that this behaviour isn't anything new". Well ofc not. It's something ancient instead.
ayyyyyyy!
Does this imply that the various creatures of modern Etheirys are all souless seeing as how they are the surviving creations of the ancients? Frogs, cactuars, morbols, behemoths, etc?
No. After 12,000 years they would have had progeny. Which means their descendants have souls.