I saw this on tv almost 30 years ago in my early twenties and I have never forgotten it. The end really shook me to my core. I still think of her and her mom often 💙
The killer of Alice should have been tried for murder twice. The second time after the mother committed suicide since his killing of her daughter eventually lead to the mother taking her own life. Two questions: I realize it's necessary for attorneys to do what they can to defend their clients, but was it necessary to drag the mother through the mud like they did? Hadn't she been through enough? Wasn't there any type of help or support group, didn't she have any friends or relatives? I hope something has been done to help parents who have been put through a similar tragedy to help them.
Listening to the pathologist talk about those horrible injuries that little girl sustained makes me shudder. I cover true crime and learning the details to crimes involving children can be hard. I can only imagine the strength it takes to actually SEE those horrible injuries in person.
It must be difficult being professional when dealing with these cases whether as a police officer or the pathologist or whoever else is brought into it. These shows are strange to watch as they are very informative but also very sad because of what people are capable of doing to such innocent people. Politicians bring up the argument of videogames, comicbooks and pornography causing violence or rape which is like blaming alcohol for drunk driving. There was a victim who was gone for weeks and was raped by a man who apparently watched pornography and the victim blamed porn and not the man himself. Perhaps an argument can be made that if someone was raised with either one since a young age and never did anything else but one would have to be fairly warped to do this kind of stuff. It is possible but once these people do stuff like this, sympathy is out of the window. Same with those who have thoughts of children but have not done anything to them. There is ways to stop them being like that but as soon as they hurt a child, sympathy is out of the window and so should their rights.
@@Sir-Cletus That's very insightful! I think if someone truly wants to kill or harm someone, they definitely will. As far as influences go, I think that games or comics or whatever might influence the method but it doesn't influence the intent. I also have absolutely no sympathy for people that want to blame horrible child hoods. There are plenty of people that have had traumatic lives and don't go about killing people because of it.
@@TheTwinFiles Agreed. Why inflict horrific things on innocent people if they had such an affect on you? I would want to get back at the ones who did it, not some innocent people who never did anything wrong to me.
I remember when she went missing. What that monster did was beyond repugnant. It was completely heartbreaking that mom left this earth. But she just wanted to be with her girl. I understand her feelings.
Lawyers as well as Prosecutors can cause mental damage in these trials.... In this case attacking the mom of the murder victim for being poor and make her look like a bad mother? Horrible, because I am sure that Alice mom was on a bad guilt trip already, that put fuel into the fire... Possible one of the reasons she committed suicide, beside the horrific loss of her child! Very sad 😢
It causes my heart to cry when folks blame the victim or the parents. These were different times. I am 58. We played outside all day long & weren't expected home until the street lights came on. We walked to & from school. We had our innocence. 1970's & 1980's were different. Still, when these things happen today, the person to blame is the murderer. Yes, we keep a watch over our treasures. Criminals such as these did a way. I rarely see a situation in which the parents hold responsibility. Rather than asking why the parents did or didn't do something, I ask why the murderer saw fit to commit such an act of violence.
This is actually the case of Andrea Atkinson I was one of the kids that helped the cops searched and so was my younger brother Her mother and my mother grew up together in Don Mount Court , a project in South Riverdale area of Toronto If anyone wants more information, feel free to ask I cry every time I see this
Only 7 minutes into the video and I'm already apalled by the incompetent police work. They say they checked the 5 floors of the block of flats 5 times, but nobody bothered to check the roof and boiler room??? SMH
It is so sad that Grace could not get help (psychological or monetary) for her. What a kind of society is this that let this happen?? Where are the altruists, millionaires, common people helping her. What a DISASTER of a society/Country. "An Inuit from Greenland (made famous in the danish writer Peter Freuchens "Book of The Eskimo" hunted successfully one day when Freuchen came home hungry from an unsuccessful walrus-hunting expedition. The Eskimo dropped off several hundred pounds of meat in front of Peter. He thanked the Eskimo.The man objected in dignantly..."Up in our country we are human!" said the hunter."And since we are human we help each other. We dont like to hear anybody say thanks for that. What I get today you may get tomorrow. Up here we say that by gifts one makes slaves and by whips one makes dogs."
Well it happened in Canada with a Universal Healthcare system. Should not require a millionaire or altruist if their system is working as well as they purport it to be.
Poor baby. I just want to hug her and tell her she’ll always be safe with me. But she’s already dead. The only good part to this story is that her mother now no longer has to live without her baby.
Hello I live in Toronto Canada 🇨🇦 I remember this case to this very day !! So sad !! The mother ended up killing herself yrs later . Sooo sad !! I remember it was the yg guy that worked@ the building. (Part time janitor ) I think he got life 25 yrs .
Well that second rapist and murderer was in prison and was released. Knowing Canada justice system he probably got a few years in prison. Prisoners are there to rehabilitate they say. But even their prisoners keep raping and probably murder again and again (the first time in prison they learn how to not get caught the second time), they still release those murderers too soon. They care more for the criminals than for the victims and for the future victims.
Honestly i dont have children but surely 6 years old little girl is too young to go out or play outside alone Some parents dont let even older children go outside alone
Her real name was andrea atkinson. Sometimes in drama true crime docs they change the names to protect the victims. But if you look up johnny's name her real story comes up.
Advice to Parents, never let your children play alone out in the garden, with all those perverts roaming the streets, you never can trust anyone, even those who you know and see daily.
R.I.P. to them =( really sad story The music in this is really great, love the jazzy touch, made my bf and I all nostalgic when listening to this while doing chores! Does anyone know any artists by any chance or what this genre of music is called?
The OJ case was one of the first use of DNA, it was very hard to have Jury and general population understand what DNA is. I remember someone saying "It's blood, everyone has blood". Very difficult to explain DNA
You're so right. It's like in this day in age you (you, being general) KNOW what DNA is and what it does but you can't exactly explain how it works but everyone now accepts it. It had to be really hard to introduce the idea to the masses when they started to use them as tests.
Both girls are too young to die. But all chain of events either people hear and see and don’t say a word, or leaving opportunities to sick men to roam on promises where children are playing.
A crime of this magnitude is up there with the worst, but what is more sickening is when a baby gets raped and murdered. God mentions in his word anyone that harms a child it would be better if they had a millstone around their neck and tossed into the ocean . You don’t ever wanna get on GODS bad side
Lol how? Oh because the creator doesn't directly intervene in it's creation's lives. We all have free will. Why not say that the devil enters weak people's minds and help corrupt them into doing heinous acts to sway them away from the ultimate creator? Satan is a silver tongue devil. 👅
If parents stop letting their six year olds, play away from home, out of sight for several hours. This may not happen. How about you don’t invite strange men to live with you when you have a little child. The cops are called within two months?? Wow, this poor kid didn’t have a chance. Six year olds don’t even have reasoning skills …Protect your babies.
How about not going for anyone no matter their religion, race, age, occupation and so on? Prostitutes are people as well. Your comment is absolutely heart- wrenching.
I have a question for all those with the "it was a different time" nonsense. What time was it ok to neglect your children? To abdicate your parental responsibilities because all the other parents were doing it? Is that how you parent? Because creatures preying on children have been around since the beginning of time. I wait with baited breath for your response. I doubt anyone who has typed that will have the courage of their convictions and answer me
I was there and so was my younger brother There was about 12 or more of us kids all playing and the Little kids were always watched out for We let the little kids hang out with us We all made the mistake of playing Hide and go seek that day , not thinking Andrea Atkinson was her real name When she went missing all of us scoured the neighborhood frantically I ended up with a lot of guilt over this , it still bothers me and my brother and I now never let any of the kids I'm supervising walk behind me This was a big part of why I became a alcoholic , violent towards any abuser and I had to address all this in my recovery
@@jeanettehinds4253 We grew up in a area called South Riverdale in Toronto Her family is a big family. When this happened me and my younger brother and all the kids were playing in the courtyard of the building when the search began and we searched the neighborhood with the other kids Me and my brother had to go to counselling because of this . My mom and Aunts grew up with Andrea's mother in Toronto I'm from Toronto
@@ReformedCriminalD I don't want to hear another word from you. The fact remains that this child was left alone, everyone went about their day and left her. And not you or your imagination can change that.
I saw this on tv almost 30 years ago in my early twenties and I have never forgotten it.
The end really shook me to my core.
I still think of her and her mom often 💙
This is Canada he's probably been free and out living among us unless he got prisons justice
@@kRomani-gh4wsI bet you are correct 😨
I love this presenter! Serious without being over the top, and compassionate without being soppy. Poor little girl.
Graham Greene is a national treasure here in Canada. ❤
@@torih2014 He should be anywhere!
He is a great actor!!
He is an actor. You remember "Dancing with wolves"?
Yes Elizabeth I agree 👍
No one thought to check the rooftop boiler room? How incompetent.
Spoiler
@@elduder2530 since it happened over 31 years ago oh, I don't think there's a spoiler.
well, they probably thought since it wasn't a suite and that part of the area locked they didn't bother! Got nothing to do with incompetence.
Agreed
The killer of Alice should have been tried for murder twice. The second time after the mother committed suicide since his killing of her daughter eventually lead to the mother taking her own life. Two questions:
I realize it's necessary for attorneys to do what they can to defend their clients, but was it necessary to drag the mother through the mud like they did? Hadn't she been through enough?
Wasn't there any type of help or support group, didn't she have any friends or relatives?
I hope something has been done to help parents who have been put through a similar tragedy to help them.
Most of the times people are left alone to suffer. Sadly.
Listening to the pathologist talk about those horrible injuries that little girl sustained makes me shudder. I cover true crime and learning the details to crimes involving children can be hard. I can only imagine the strength it takes to actually SEE those horrible injuries in person.
It must be difficult being professional when dealing with these cases whether as a police officer or the pathologist or whoever else is brought into it. These shows are strange to watch as they are very informative but also very sad because of what people are capable of doing to such innocent people.
Politicians bring up the argument of videogames, comicbooks and pornography causing violence or rape which is like blaming alcohol for drunk driving. There was a victim who was gone for weeks and was raped by a man who apparently watched pornography and the victim blamed porn and not the man himself.
Perhaps an argument can be made that if someone was raised with either one since a young age and never did anything else but one would have to be fairly warped to do this kind of stuff. It is possible but once these people do stuff like this, sympathy is out of the window. Same with those who have thoughts of children but have not done anything to them. There is ways to stop them being like that but as soon as they hurt a child, sympathy is out of the window and so should their rights.
@@Sir-Cletus That's very insightful! I think if someone truly wants to kill or harm someone, they definitely will. As far as influences go, I think that games or comics or whatever might influence the method but it doesn't influence the intent. I also have absolutely no sympathy for people that want to blame horrible child hoods. There are plenty of people that have had traumatic lives and don't go about killing people because of it.
@@TheTwinFiles Agreed. Why inflict horrific things on innocent people if they had such an affect on you? I would want to get back at the ones who did it, not some innocent people who never did anything wrong to me.
Agree 100%. Also- love your channel, Twin Files! You guys are awesome!
@@DiZoSoMom Awww, thank you!
I remember when she went missing. What that monster did was beyond repugnant. It was completely heartbreaking that mom left this earth. But she just wanted to be with her girl. I understand her feelings.
You have to think had they not caught him he would have killed again....he was young, just getting started..
Lawyers as well as Prosecutors can cause mental damage in these trials.... In this case attacking the mom of the murder victim for being poor and make her look like a bad mother? Horrible, because I am sure that Alice mom was on a bad guilt trip already, that put fuel into the fire... Possible one of the reasons she committed suicide, beside the horrific loss of her child! Very sad 😢
It causes my heart to cry when folks blame the victim or the parents. These were different times. I am 58. We played outside all day long & weren't expected home until the street lights came on. We walked to & from school. We had our innocence. 1970's & 1980's were different. Still, when these things happen today, the person to blame is the murderer. Yes, we keep a watch over our treasures. Criminals such as these did a way. I rarely see a situation in which the parents hold responsibility. Rather than asking why the parents did or didn't do something, I ask why the murderer saw fit to commit such an act of violence.
Good points.
Apparently it wasn't.
Graham Greene's narration is really good!
You can't leave kids unattended outside. RIP Alice ❤
Yes you can….
@@arlenappenzeller2424 You can but you should not. That is what she meant. Its a gamble.
@@arlenappenzeller2424apparently not a wise decision in this case.
Pam Newell has a gift for explaining very difficult things to laypeople in a very easy-to-understand way.
When you hear the profile it’s always the same one for every murder
This is actually the case of Andrea Atkinson
I was one of the kids that helped the cops searched and so was my younger brother
Her mother and my mother grew up together in Don Mount Court , a project in South Riverdale area of Toronto
If anyone wants more information, feel free to ask
I cry every time I see this
That poor little girl and my heart went out to her mum. Hope they are now reunited.😢
Was just listening to this as I work, and I was positive it was Graham Greene narrating. Love him!
It is Graham Greene. A wonderful actor. He passed away, God rest his soul.
@@dianawatton7570 Graham Greene is still alive.
Only 7 minutes into the video and I'm already apalled by the incompetent police work. They say they checked the 5 floors of the block of flats 5 times, but nobody bothered to check the roof and boiler room??? SMH
how could they not check the boiler room, ???
It is so sad that Grace could not get help (psychological or monetary) for her. What a kind of society is this that let this happen?? Where are the altruists, millionaires, common people helping her. What a DISASTER of a society/Country.
"An Inuit from Greenland (made famous in the danish writer Peter Freuchens "Book of The Eskimo" hunted successfully one day when Freuchen came home hungry from an unsuccessful walrus-hunting expedition. The Eskimo dropped off several hundred pounds of meat in front of Peter. He thanked the Eskimo.The man objected in dignantly..."Up in our country we are human!" said the hunter."And since we are human we help each other. We dont like to hear anybody say thanks for that. What I get today you may get tomorrow. Up here we say that by gifts one makes slaves and by whips one makes dogs."
Well it happened in Canada with a Universal Healthcare system. Should not require a millionaire or altruist if their system is working as well as they purport it to be.
Poor baby. I just want to hug her and tell her she’ll always be safe with me. But she’s already dead. The only good part to this story is that her mother now no longer has to live without her baby.
Omg 😢 RIP Little Angel and her poor mom
Hello I live in Toronto Canada 🇨🇦 I remember this case to this very day !! So sad !! The mother ended up killing herself yrs later . Sooo sad !! I remember it was the yg guy that worked@ the building. (Part time janitor ) I think he got life 25 yrs .
How did they not check the bioler room wtf 😢
They didn't notice the boiler house. I'd like to know you more better and that's only if you don't mind leaving me a reply
@@janelleamber hey sure.
I think surly it was more then being lazy, searching for a kid they must have done better, reminds me of the tia sharp case.
@@stephenrobinson8244 obviously. Leys just keep hoping for the best. I'm originally from VA but currently living here in Dinuba California
@@stephenrobinson8244 so where are you from and do you live alone
@@janelleamber I'm from London UK, and technically homeless atm. Sofa surfing
Well that second rapist and murderer was in prison and was released. Knowing Canada justice system he probably got a few years in prison. Prisoners are there to rehabilitate they say. But even their prisoners keep raping and probably murder again and again (the first time in prison they learn how to not get caught the second time), they still release those murderers too soon.
They care more for the criminals than for the victims and for the future victims.
Crime looks as if it pays in Canada. Disgusting.
Devil(le) - what a convenient name for a rapist and killer.
R.i.p., Alice and Madeline.
The 2nd case is actually the case of Chantal Brochu, names were changed.
Ohh Graham Greene is hosting! I adore him; fantastic actor!
This man planned to harm this poor woman and should get an American life sentence for this heinous crime that he'd commited
Poor little girl and mother.
Honestly i dont have children but surely 6 years old little girl is too young to go out or play outside alone
Some parents dont let even older children go outside alone
I couldnt do the pathologist job ,especially when body of small children and decompose 😢
It must be very hard
I admire specialists like that
Death is not the worst thing.Its what this little girl suffering while still alive. RIP Alice.
Her real name was andrea atkinson. Sometimes in drama true crime docs they change the names to protect the victims. But if you look up johnny's name her real story comes up.
Advice to Parents, never let your children play alone out in the garden, with all those perverts roaming the streets, you never can trust anyone, even those who you know and see daily.
God bless Pam Neuell
Love the Host❤
29:48 "The best time to wear a striped sweaterrrrr...is allll the timeee.." don't tell me ya'll ain't hearin spongebobs angelic voice.
There is no information on this case or perpetrator on google
It is just Google John terceira . They Changed the vicitims Name Herr.
Ruth Windebank, mother of murder victim Andrea Atkinson.....This is their Real names!....They changed their names on this programme.....
This is so sad that 😢 poor mother
The girl who rode by the in-process assault on her bike could've prevented a murder, and she knows it.
I had paternity test run on my daughter in 1990...so they had more than ABO in 1990.
Interesting...
It was used in 1986 In The UK!
Rest in peace mumma & little princess. Condolences to the family. 🤍🕊️🌟🌟
RIP Alice ❤ peace to mummy 🌟
Thank you for the post of this video I enjoyed it.
R.I.P. to them =( really sad story
The music in this is really great, love the jazzy touch, made my bf and I all nostalgic when listening to this while doing chores! Does anyone know any artists by any chance or what this genre of music is called?
I'm pretty sure it's considered smooth jazz. :) Hope that helps, cheers!
I had to look up "secreter"
The background music and drums are simply distracting and unnecessary!😏
The OJ case was one of the first use of DNA, it was very hard to have Jury and general population understand what DNA is. I remember someone saying "It's blood, everyone has blood". Very difficult to explain DNA
You're so right. It's like in this day in age you (you, being general) KNOW what DNA is and what it does but you can't exactly explain how it works but everyone now accepts it. It had to be really hard to introduce the idea to the masses when they started to use them as tests.
@@TheTwinFiles Yes, amazing now people accept it and we can solve cold cases
Especially in its infancy! And the part of the DNA that is important for forensic analysis!
@@theresarasche3173 Yes you're right 👍
That murder would not have been convicted even if they had video of him doing it
Both girls are too young to die. But all chain of events either people hear and see and don’t say a word, or leaving opportunities to sick men to roam on promises where children are playing.
Perfect video 👍👍👍
Плохой поиск девочки. Все квартиры обыскали, когда в первую очередь надо было подвалы и чердаки осмотреть...
What?! 🤔
Add feathers into a longer hair and Mr Graham Green would look great as an Indian chef ! ❤
Very handsome and proud !
Interesting case
You dont really need the music…videos are very interesting so the music is just disturbing😢😢😢😢.
Alice 🙏❤ Grace 🙏❤
Is being creepy one of the qualifications for being a janitor ??
There’s a special place in Hell for people who hurt/kill children.☠️
They are hated in prison too. Huge kudos for someone prepared to attack him in the showers.
he asked her to dance with her and her friend
A crime of this magnitude is up there with the worst, but what is more sickening is when a baby gets raped and murdered. God mentions in his word anyone that harms a child it would be better if they had a millstone around their neck and tossed into the ocean .
You don’t ever wanna get on GODS bad side
4:11 I have seen little boys that were more beautiful
Heinous.
Ya! New upload!! Nap time 😁
Sameee
Huh?
Not much of a police search!!! Muppets.
Beyond wrong. RIP Alice.
THIS IS PROOF THAT THERE IS NO GOD
Lol how? Oh because the creator doesn't directly intervene in it's creation's lives. We all have free will. Why not say that the devil enters weak people's minds and help corrupt them into doing heinous acts to sway them away from the ultimate creator? Satan is a silver tongue devil. 👅
If parents stop letting their six year olds, play away from home, out of sight for several hours. This may not happen. How about you don’t invite strange men to live with you when you have a little child. The cops are called within two months?? Wow, this poor kid didn’t have a chance. Six year olds don’t even have reasoning skills …Protect your babies.
Some men are cruel, raping and killing a child why not go for prostitutes
How about not raping or killing anyone?
How about not going for anyone no matter their religion, race, age, occupation and so on? Prostitutes are people as well. Your comment is absolutely heart- wrenching.
The cockeyed camera work is comical
I have a question for all those with the "it was a different time" nonsense. What time was it ok to neglect your children? To abdicate your parental responsibilities because all the other parents were doing it? Is that how you parent? Because creatures preying on children have been around since the beginning of time. I wait with baited breath for your response. I doubt anyone who has typed that will have the courage of their convictions and answer me
I was there and so was my younger brother
There was about 12 or more of us kids all playing and the Little kids were always watched out for
We let the little kids hang out with us
We all made the mistake of playing Hide and go seek that day , not thinking
Andrea Atkinson was her real name
When she went missing all of us scoured the neighborhood frantically
I ended up with a lot of guilt over this , it still bothers me and my brother and I now never let any of the kids I'm supervising walk behind me
This was a big part of why I became a alcoholic , violent towards any abuser and I had to address all this in my recovery
@@ReformedCriminalD Rubbish. Do you seriously expect for me to believe this fantasy?
@@jeanettehinds4253 it's not Rubbish , her family and my family have known each other since the 60s
@@jeanettehinds4253 We grew up in a area called South Riverdale in Toronto
Her family is a big family.
When this happened me and my younger brother and all the kids were playing in the courtyard of the building when the search began and we searched the neighborhood with the other kids
Me and my brother had to go to counselling because of this .
My mom and Aunts grew up with Andrea's mother in Toronto
I'm from Toronto
@@ReformedCriminalD I don't want to hear another word from you. The fact remains that this child was left alone, everyone went about their day and left her. And not you or your imagination can change that.
letting your six year old girl run around by herself is crazy mother fault 100%
The mom killed her daughter
What a terrible production
This show is corny as hell😂
This show is corny as hell😂