Great video man and a topic and question that I get asked about regularly. AA is just like any other human group. It'll have its extremists on either side. Its self righteous people and the people that want control. A lot of groups are not that dissimilar from your local church with your holier than thous and the busy bodies who want to be in your business all under the guise of godliness. Which is why I don't go to church. I have found that, as with everything, you have to shop around. I have found and am in some great groups in AA. Yes, they use the word God. Yes they say you should get a higher power. I have a higher power who I choose to call God, but he in no way, or very little way, represents the Christian God. I dont believe in Christianity or organized religion of any sort. There's not enough space here for me to get into my full belief system. The question I ask people when they balk at the whole higher power thing is this. How is your way working out for you? You can argue that there is no God. I can argue that there is a God. Neither one of us truly knows. But I know that if I keep drinking that I'm gonna find the answer a lot sooner than if get sober. So, what's the problem in suspending disbelief and getting a higher power if it means that you get to live a more fulfilling, good life for what time you have left here. On a side note. If you get all caught up in the BS that AA can turn into withbits cliques and such, then that's your fault. Stay out of it. Focus on the message and save yourself. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing.
Another great video per usual. There are secular versions of AA too. I highly recommend the book "Staying Sober Without God" for a secular version of the 12 steps. It veers around a lot of terms people get hung up on in AA like God and powerlessness.
Brian, alcoholic, 14 months sober. My own journey to sobriety involved a hybrid- I was lucky enough to get into an outpatient recovery program, which set me up with a therapist, psychiatrist, a goal of hitting AA meetings each week regardless of your progress, and in my case, anti-depressants and a prescription for Antabuse. More than anything, Antabuse and therapy has been the most powerful tool in my quiver, and I still take my Antabuse every day. But AA did and does appeal to me, greatly. I love being in the rooms, and as an atheist myself, I also struggle with the “higher power” directive and the heavy Christian undertones throughout… but to me, a room full of like-minded people, grouped together for the explicit purpose of community, recovery, and a sort of talk therapy, and all for free? That’s a fantastic resource, even if it’s not perfect by any means.
Very happy for you, and you make some valid points. AA is NOT perfect because it is made up of imperfect people. The same thing certainly applies to Government, Military, Education, Industry, Healthcare, Financial Institutions, Sports, etc, etc. Unfortunately, many people will take the "God" thing in AA, mostly because they lack any real experience, and turn it into the "Swamp Creature", "Frankenstein", and "The Day the Earth Stood Still". If not for the fact that people die on a daily basis from alcoholism, it would be absolutely laughable. At the very mention of "something greater than themselves" they will turn around and like the "Walking Dead", head for the precipice. ⬇
@35mmShowdown I went to AA many years ago for a suspected drug issue, later, when I did deteriorate into AUD, I never thought about returning. A year and a half for me. Keep going man!!
My father taught me about Entropy at a young age. And I found that so fascinating and vast, that a law of disorder applies universally to all things. I even brought entropy up in therapy last week. I'm now 364 days sober. Year one tomorrow
6 year sober atheist - the only higher power i had to admit to existing is the power alcohol has on me when it’s in my system. my sobriety is entirely in my hands, and has to be so i can’t blame anything or anyone else for any slips. it’s down to me 100% no one and nothing is going to come to save me. it’s in my hands. blaming other things and people for my drinking was the greatest reason i found it difficult to give up. 14:05 this is so true, however. each to their own.
"I'm about to step on a thousand different landmines". I absolutely love this introduction. Having been continuously sober for several decades, I find it highly entertaining when I read or hear about people who are vehemently opposed to the mere mention of god, higher power, power greater than ourselves, etc. At the same time, I fully realize that there is NOTHING funny to the person new to sobriety. The truly amazing aspect of this, is most people refuse to look at, or accept the grocery list of negative consequences, very often severe negative consequences, that are present in their daily lives. Never mind the marital difficulties, children living in fear, poor health, loss of job and income, loss of driver's license, and other legal issues, court costs, attorney's fees, detox and rehab stays, mental institutions, incarceration, and the real possibility of death! When confronted, they'll say something like, "Ya, my life is phucking train wreck, but DON'T send me to those Gdamn meetings"! "What would the neighbors think"! I can laugh about it now, because I was one of them! I certainly WASN'T laughing when I had to decide if I wanted to live or die. So, in conclusion, the "god" thing doesn't bother me in the least. Thirty years of a life in abundance, is all the evidence I need that all I have to do is 'Act as if"! ✌Mark
This video is for me. I have to use the group as my HP right now. I was told that it "has to be something that you can't manipulate." I'll stick with the group as the HP right now. I am becoming more spiritual, However. Great video, Stu. I appreciate the topic. The thing is, when all else fails and you can't rely on yourself at all anymore, who do you turn to? Something greater than yourself? Other alcoholics? A bit of both? I am glad you touched on that. My father a retired engineer first told me about entropy. When I was really small, I asked, "Why do things decay and rust?" He explained that things will have a tendency to return to chaos over time.
The phrase "alcohol steals from tomorrow" refers to the idea that borrowing happiness from alcohol through drinking can lead to a sad, sick, or lonely tomorrow. This can lead to a cycle of borrowing happiness from tomorrow, which can deepen unhappiness and lead to destructive behaviour; the concept of alcohol as a thief makes a lot of sense to me, Stuart. Keep up the great work, sir.
Thank you sooooo much for this. I am new to A.A. and have just started my recovery (11 days sober as I write this). I'm also an atheist (grew up in a Jehovah's Witness family and it left a BAD taste in my mouth concerning God and religion) and have had a hard time reconciling the "God and Higher Power stuff". I think entropy has solved it for me. You could very well interpret it as what the Serenity Prayer is about. Thank you. Definitely a subscriber now!
Thank you so much for speaking on this. I cannot tell you how many many times I have been to an AA Meeting and for some unknown reason I felt the need to explain that I’m just not religious. You wouldn’t believe the reaction I received. I walked out and honestly I haven’t been there since. Thumbs Up 👍 and shared out.💞
@@CMoore8539 Thankfully for you AA isn't religious, if the group was going on a religious basis it wasn't really AA, find a real AA group that knows how it's meant to be spiritual not religious
Thank you so much for this. It's what ive been struggling with the most as a lifelong atheist. I joke that my higher power is my fairy godmother 😅 luckily the groups I go to are pretty secular and I've been told at every meeting not to get too caught up in the 'God' aspect. Day 16 and feeling a bit more positive about the future. Really enjoying your videos! Edited to add: I do SMART in addition to AA and it's actually helping me a lot. I have multiple addictions and mental health issues so it's a handy AA companion for me 😊
The higher power is the individuals own concept, you're only meant to be willing and open minded to explore it. Its meant to be something bigger than yourself, AA isnt religious at all
The higher power in AA and freemasonry for me has always been myself you know who actually is there at the end of the day when you try to sleep or in the last moments of your life it’s you you will be there and you will judge yourself harshly but fairly I want that version of me to be proud of the life I’ve lived
I did not grasp the many degrees of alcohol use severity until I heard some of Stu's stories. My experience has been nightly casual use up to many-day benders that gradually started earlier in the day. Eventually I'd realize today was the end of it and I'd begin the treacherous slog back to normalcy which may take an entire week. That being said, aside from some family members calling me an alcoholic one time (I disagreed) because I was cruising through 30 packs of bud heavies while doing yard work and painting during covid, it's been up to me to determine whether my drinking was bad or not. I never got in trouble for my drinking but I did fall off of a porch and broke my hand one time. Not being so publicly exposed allowed me to quietly slink out of the realm of alcoholism as if it had never happened. To me it is far easier to handle it that way if you can. Like it never happened. Rather than be reminded constantly that "I have a problem that could come back at any time". Anyway, I stopped drinking at least ten times the past two years so I had to build the no-alcohol muscle before it would take. The muscle gets stronger when your reason(s) for not drinking gets stronger. For me it took work in the form of deep thought and considering scenarios where I'd be tempted or coerced to drink. It's been over four months now and I regularly make jokes about my non-drinking when people try to force it on me. I just don't care anymore. For instance, I hung out with a group of drunk people last night that I told I wasn't drinking many times and some rounds the same girl would offer me a shot, and say something like "oh so your really not going to drink tonight?" like something had changed from 20 mins ago. It do be like that. But I watched the entire group get entirely shited and poor behavior commenced that led to some folks nearing blackout trying to drive home. I woke up this morning feeling just as good as I did yesterday morning and I have my past self to thank for that. I've realized that alcohol's only enhancement is it might give me an excuse to have been an asshole. Beyond that, it's become useless to me. If a group like AA will strengthen your resolve, then use it like any other tool. I prefer to just pretend it never happened. For me, life is too short to waste my limited attention span on reminding myself I used to drink way too much way too often.
Watched 4 videos in a row looking forward to viewing the rest...First time i went to AA ..they brought me and a few others from a residental rehab to a local AA meeting. It was winter nightime we were stood in the very badly lit carpark of a local sports club waiting for a keyholder to get inside...the local AA people were very friendly and we soon were having a bit of banter ...some of the local people noticed a figure in the shadow of the building about 50 feet away...to this day i could not see anyone....after a short chat 2 or 3 of them approached this figure..it was a young man who needed AA help but he was too nervous to come to the door..Now i realise both him and I needed help to get to our first AA meeting...me through the residental rehab and him through the concern of the local AA members. The God thing never bothered me and this video makes crystal clear what an alcoholics real priorities must be. Thank you Bat.
I'm glad your experience was a good one, and thank you for the positivity in the comments. You sound like you've got things under control now, congratulations for that.
What a great video. Nourishing for the soul. Personally I find Nature is the closest I get to a higher power. When I’m out walking in nature I occasionally become struck by its enduring patience, its acceptance of the crap the human race (quite literally) dumps on it and its meticulous self repair and equanimity. It’s rather like the grown up in the room that continually says, “I’ve got this and it’s going to be ok.” It starts each day, willing to try again. Nunc Coepi a phrase that will be the closest I get to religious incantation. But it sort of sums it up for me. The power to always believe you can begin again. Cheers, Bat Country.
I wouldn't write it off that easy. There could be the "right" meeting out there. My group has none of that. But how you stay sober or get there isn't important.
Not for me either. I did learn a little from it, but I found and find it culty. It’s just me on my own. It’s 11 years since I was in a meeting. I don’t miss it. I also wholeheartedly support anyone who finds it helpful to them, but it will never be a part of my life again. Sobriety is, though. It’s bloody great!
Thank you, Stuart, for addressing this issue and sharing your views. I've never attended any AA meetings, only NA and CA, which of course comes down to the same principles Much appreciated and I subbed.
First time in aa I felt like it was a cult. I didn't go back for awhile but was desperate to stop drinking. I met some good people from aa that helped me. I go to aa maybe 4 times a yr. It's not for me. 4 yrs sober now but still don't know how to live life right
Found you from @ShadesOClarity channel, I have a channel on addiction too. Love this video. I don't struggle with a higher power or God but so many people do and so many people have a wrong interpretation of what we mean. Even non alcoholics. Once it was explained to me in the steps that I can make my own version of God it all made sense and freed me to have a higher power of my own interpretation. I was never religious but I saw a lot of what you talk about, about both sides being pretty much the same thing and both seeming hypochritical (I have a tattoo'd blue haired 43 year old sister) I don't believe in the God in the clouds thing or that everything said at Church is good advice but that is what allows me to go church when I want to to sing and kind of get a community boost just like I would go to yoga or go workout. I believe heaven and hell are states of the mind. I can discern what I think is good advice and what I think is crazy talk and take what I like. Great video!
Oh man that yoga comparison is a really good one. I subbed to your channel buddy, you've got some great stuff and I'll make sure I'm checking in. I hit one at random, about your friend's dad, and how grateful you are to be sober so you can be there for your friend. That's the kind of inspiration I'm always looking out for, so I appreciate you directing me towards it. Take care mate.
@@_BatCountry Awesome! Thanks for the Sub! yeah stil trying to find my direction on here, your channel and the other ones ive seen have been very inspirational. Glad I could help improve your mood. Thats what its all about. All the best
"Bingo, we have a winner folks". "It all made sense and FREED me to have a higher power of my own". Like the majority of people in recovery, I paid a very high price for admission. After attending meetings on a regular basis, and despite all of my preconceived erroneous expectations, I realized that I was completely free to come to my own conclusions about...everything! There was no cloaked figure in the corner yielding a sickle, no one was taking roll call, no one was sending me off with homework. There was no deadline for the "god" thing, or doing the steps, or getting a sponsor, or combing my hair differently...nobody really cared about any of that. The majority were only interested in me "coming back" until the impossible happened. The compulsion to drink had left! When that happened, my "conclusions" became easier and easier. All I have to know about god is...I AIN"T IT! ✌❤ Mark
Find it easier to take the community and accountability aspects from AA and leave the identifying as a broken addict and higher power woo behind. Those who become addicted aren't just shells and broken vessels, we're good people who tried to cope in maladaptive ways.
I'm a god-fearing, currently using alcohol. I was in AA for years but I was an atheist for many more. You can't offend me! I will watch this video as I see fit. Sober, drunk, devout, and disbelieving ain't none of you better than any other.
I haven't been diagnosed with a brain injury but I have had various injuries that I worry may have affected the way I think & behave. Once I slipped and fell headfirst & knocked myself out and was found snoring at the bottom of some stairs outside a friend's house. I have also had various fights (which I didn't start) where I have been kicked or punched in the head. It makes me think that this might have had something to do with my brain chemistry and why my alcoholism is so bad. I hope this doesn't sound too weird. It's just something I worry about a lot.
It is a totally valid concern, but the interaction between alcohol and brain damage is poorly understood, so there's not good odds that you'll ever know for sure. Just keep moving forward.
If it helps people I have no issues with it. I knew it wasn't for me a few years ago when I did actually find Jesus and true redemption. True healing in scriptures to deal with a multitude of Psychological problems. I got fed up with constantly being rejected by sponsors after even small relapses. No longer need human assistance in my sobriety. I listen to you bat and a few others on UA-cam just to remind me daily that I don't want that shirt life anymore. Your videos are a Godsend My Friend. I listen to the one you did on Kindling and it helps me stay and remain sober today. Stay Blessed and keep posting please, ❤ 🙏
On a lighter note... What is the music in the background? This really works well to complement the vocal delivery and visual style of the video. It's like that calming feeling you'd get watching 'Goodnight Sweetheart', alone with a cup of tea at night, when you had school the next day and were trying to forget about life just for an hour, because you had a big project due in and hadn't done a thing for it.
God or no god, religion or none, the AA Higher Power serves as a placeholder for an unknown thing. Like Dark Matter. It isn't the same placeholder as "God" as a philosophy. It's like this: "Some kind of apparently-magical THING made it possible for me to stop. I can't show it to you directly, and it's different for most everyone." Then we describe the journey & maybe guess about what happened. I thought I had my metaphysics complete & I thought I knew God like my hand, but I was wrong. My sponsor didn't even WANT to believe in metaphysics, now he does. Simple willingness & acknowledging one's ignorance seems like the Magic Key.
"God" is a 3 letter word. It's used as a cover all for your higher power. It can be whatever you want it to be. The key is to acknowledge and accept the fact that you aren't in control of this life and those around you. Once you come to truly accept it, serenity will follow.
@@Dan99664 i really don’t understand that acceptance. What does it benefit? Why am I powerless to fight addiction by myself. Not trying to be obtuse but I don’t understand the concept.
@@Stormvogel262 Maybe you aren't powerless. But if you're anything like myself, everything else I tried failed. The same ego that led me to think I could do it on my own was the ego that was fueling my addiction. I'd got to the point where I'd do anything to stop, including adopting new beliefs. Step 1 was most important for me, many people conform but don't truly accept that they are an alcoholic. I know I didn't, despite the years of hurting others and ruining my life even Delirium Tremens. I chalked it up to "I'm mentally ill" (I am) or "I'm going through a rough decade" (also true). I thought because of the things I'd been through I was a tough fucker and I could overcome anything. Not so.... Sure, it may be a cult and I may be drinking the Koolaid but it works.
Hahaha, yeah, love phrase, and lot of snobbery in AA. If one is TRULY a spiritual person, they should realize that being supercillious, or condescending, is just off-putting, at best ! Christ was not that way, and I try , as a Christian, not to even think that way...I try. Really, the one who has a tittle of understanding, is the SERVANT of , shall I say ,one perceived as unenlightened. Love ❤️ this channel !!!!
@markg.4246 oh FOR sure Mark !! I was just watching a documentary about the "class" system in the UK (yes it still exists), and then there's India!! But I do see you're point . And I'm in the US,and I don't have to go very far!! I was just restricting my reaction to Stu's theme for the day. For my own part, I used to "look differently " (not with cruelty, or disdain,just differently) at the homeless, UNTIL I was very nearly there ,and drinking.... So now let's say i have much more fellow feeling now , and ppl are individuals and can't be easily labeled into something stereotypical !! IVE been to AA, and i feel i learned a LOT !! Mine was a good experience - perhaps not so much for Stu and many others. But to each his own. These days I benefit more from this channel and others related to it, but I in no way look down at AA. I do have a "higher power," but I don't feel better than those who say not Proof? I love Christopher Hitchens, (rip), and I'm so glad he left behind a generous video collection of debates ... Sorry for length, but just trying to clarify a bit ... All the best!!!
Wow. The first time I have laughed uncontrollably at any recovery video, many times over. Sir, I salute you. You are my absolute inspiration. (Day 15, by the way. Still can't quite believe it.)
I looked to the skies when rattling and sweating and the answer was not forthcoming. The two answers I did receive were to taper and to avoid AA. I did the latter, took the one night supply of librium and flushed the Southern Comfort down the toilet. Still no word from above.
Is there any way to get in contact with you for a talk? I’m on my 22th day sober and have followed all your videos, i’m 25 and have a full time job still (thank god) and do well financially but prio to my 22 days sober i nearly lost all in my life thats important. I’m determined and will never after my 12 day binge and withdrawal where i went delusional and expeeienced hallucinations ever go back to it. I genuinely would love to have a chat with you and if you cud give any piece of advice for me. Today i work full time have a partner since 4 years and workout 3 times a week and love learning languages. I usually go 4-5 months sober then binge 10 days and had it like that the last 10 years, your insightful and i felt like maybe you cud give useful advice so.. if possible let me know!
@@nothanks9503 Addiction is not something to be "conquered". Hopefully, we learn how to "live differently", which should be our focus. The end result is that we don't have to consider taking a drink over ANYTHING! ✌
“Entropy”. Brilliant! And much nicer than “Death” which is the unavoidable result of human entropy. When I drink, I am most certainly hastening my physical deterioration…. My “Entropy”
SMART may well be a dumb N American acronym but it’s all based around CBT therapy. Our meetings are for all addictive behavior. There are no labels, no counting days and no sponsors. I spent 10 years going to N/AA and found SMART liberating after years in 12 step groups. However, as someone who now works in addiction recovery I recommend doing both, like you pointed out 12 step groups can be really helpful for the newly sober if you’re able to embrace the methodology of getting a sponsor and doing the steps … everyone deserves sobriety no matter how we get there … peace
Thank you for a thoughtful response where one was probably not deserved. Sorry for teasing about SMART. To be honest I did non-recovery-based CBT and found it very fruitful. And I certainly agree with your conclusions here.
I like the Enthropy concept , Gravity is an Enthropic force, Time is caused by Gravity - So its all links in back together. Enthropy is a good higher power .
STEP 1: admit ones powerless over alcohol STEP 2: believe in a higher power I guess Vodka because is has power over me and it mixes well with just about anything.
I find AA groups I go to are fully open to discussing "difficult" things. All AA asks is that you rely on a "higher power" - something greater than yourself. Be it an idea, a symbol, or whatever. It does not have to be God in any traditional sense. This is a gravely mistaken perspective.
I was one of those Hitchens/Dawkins/Harris/Dennett kids too. I always especially liked Sam Harris' idea that, since every religion has followers that claim to have had a deep and transcendental moment of connection with God, that sort of simultaneously disproves the dogma of every religion, but also proves that there IS something there to connect with. Like how can a Buddhist tell a Muslim that his experience was invalid because he was connecting with the wrong God? Maybe all these folks are connecting to the same thing and religion is just a middle man that needs to be cut out of the relationship. I've personally felt that thing after decades of being a "nonbeliever", and have been able to talk about it with other AAs. Unfortunately the best word to describe it is "God", just to save time. It's a three-letter word, it's just easier to say than "the emptiness in which all matter exists and the consciousness that permeates all living things." Definitely really like the word "awe" though, as you mentioned. I guess that'd be the next closest word. Unfortunately Sam's got some pretty fucked up and wack views on Islam/Israel/etc, but he definitely has some useful ideas. I really liked his book "Waking Up" for people trying to navigate this topic
How do you tackle the 1st step by basically being forced to admit you have no free will/agency? I agree with it (no fault of my own) but it is disconcerting to acknowledge that your brain/agency is the product of innumerable factors almost all of which are completely outside of one's control.
Powerless over alcohol, not powerless over everything. You have free will, just not with alcohol, and nobody should be forcing you to admit that you're powerless over alcohol. It's just something that you need to realize and accept for yourself so that you can begin the process of recovery.
@@madamegeorge7258, alcoholics don't have free will over their alcohol consumption. That's pretty much the defining characteristic of alcoholism. I don't know where you're getting this notion that free will is either absolute or entirely non-existent. Do you believe that Type 1 diabetics have zero free will because they can't eat sugar?
@@thatpointinlife "Free" will does not exist and is a fallacy. So, yes, but it has nothing to do with being diabetic. The laws of physics leave no room for free will. It may be necessary in areas such as law, morality, ethics, etc, to falsely claim it exists, but it very obviously does not.
Good morning Stu. Excellent explanation. I am lay buddish. I believe in the Universe. Mother nature. Enthropy. There's so much debate as what live is. Simple. Anti-Enthropy... My beloved Wife is buddish. Clearly she helps me tremendously. For real. Again. Wise words. Thank you again mate...
You're soooo funny ! ! Just received your book I'm sure it will b amazin too ! I totally agree , I go to the odd zoom meeting of aa , just to remind myself I'm an alcoholic really n I like the people ! ' I don't know if smart' is meant to b from the ' specific , measurable achievable , realistic , time based ' model that is used when settin goals? So it's just the first letters of those words ? ! However it does sound like it would b full of dickheads ! They are everywhere ! X 😂❤
Does it really matter if you go secular or religious as long as it works for you? Lots of things are out of our control. Blame "God", the "universe" or that life ain't fair. Hope we all getter better.
About AA, there are a few more problems than just the higher power thing. But this depends on the group members and not the system itself. The most dangerous is the influence of others to get "completely sober" where they demand, medications for diseases and disorders would also count as addictions. Like i saw people with the same bipolar disorder that i have, they were told to stop with medication. This can be very dangerous, to go against the docs therapy and prescription of meds, where such a disorder can come back at full power and hit you in the face like a punch. I have to tell the people that the experts like doctors come first and disorders need treatment, because without treatment, one will relapse sooner or later anyway. So my rather bad opinion is just about some groups, not about all AA groups and not about the entire system. I can't agree with "you are looking for excuses", i maybe mentioned it in another thread: Where i live in Europe, we do individual detox, rehab in a clinic and after this a long time therapy with an expert. This can be a way too, it's not like just because you reject AA, that you don't want or can't get sober. P.S. The AA groups that i heard of which are so extreme about medications are usually from the USA, from the "Bible Belt" and they take it a lot more serious with the higher power than other groups. It's for sure not like this with every group, like i said.
I have always heard if you have a prescription for medication take your medicine, any fool suggesting people stop taking their meds would be sternly educated in the groups I go to.
My HP is very close to yours; but I use the word “POSSIBILITY” as the origin of all probabilities, like zero is the origin of all numbering systems & math. Possibility has no size, no temperature, no location. It actually doesn’t exist just as zero does not actually exist.
😅 despite multiple starts and stops on my part to contribute something meaningful to the thread here, you ended up saying everything almost exactly as I would have said it or wished to focus upon. So I'll just shut up. Cheers.
This is not an attack, please I promise!! It’s only to challenge your thinking : but to whom do you pray to? To a scientific theorem? Life is so full of troubles even without alcohol. It’s not a religion but a relationship to a Father. ‘This essence of true religion is helping widows and orphans.’ Now that’s a religion. How about a relationship with a loving Father?? I am so relieved to have that feeling of dependence.
another one is "lifering". i believe its an offshoot of "smart" they are a secular recovery group with online meetings every day. lots of AA refugees there. no snobbery involved
The God aspect is actually not a problem for me with AA, even though I’m an atheist, I can get past that. My problem is literally everything else about the program. It feels like a cult and their approach to sobriety seems completely uninformed and toxic. Not for me.
I know. And I agree. But if it's someone's first week of sobriety, and their life is in the balance, is that what you would tell them? That the program is toxic and culty and unscientific? I wouldn't. I would tell them it's a room full of sober people. I think, in those important early stages, *some* help is better than no help. It's the first last resort: there they might at least make contact with someone who can call an ambulance if they relapse.
@@_BatCountryfair enough and that’s why I still go sometimes even though I don’t necessarily like the program, it’s just nice to have the fellowship of other alcoholics, where else can you easily find that? And I wouldn’t say any of that to someone trying to get sober I would definitely encourage them to go.
@@jonathanturkmusic Try a pub, you're taking up the space and time of someone that might need the program,AA isn't a social talking therapy it's a three part program
Thank you for this. I was brought up Christian and have mostly negative and some outright traumatic memories of it, so the Christian roots have kept me very far from AA. I'm not ready to give them a chance, but you've given me food for thought.
I'm not an alcoholic but I've been watching a lot of your videos to try and understand it better. I have a friend with a big drinking problem and he uses the god stuff as an excuse to not go to AA. I want to make him watch the last 3 minutes of this video. It's nothing I haven't told him before - I've even said to him he can redefine "god" to be whatever he wants it to be much like you talk about doing - but I wonder if hearing it from someone who has been through it themselves would resonate better? Or is it a bad idea or a waste of time. Part of me just wants to cut ties and let the bastard rot. The other part can't help but care.
I understand that conflict you're in. If it helps, my email address is in the description. Get hime to reach out to me and I'll slap some sense into him on your behalf.
There's no scientific basis behind AA, though. And there can be a danger with recovery groups as well, I know one rehab in my area is notorious for taking in alcoholics and churning out meth addicts.
"A power greater than myself?" Well I've no problem there....Alcohol was , is, and always will be a power greater than myself. You come out of a bout of D.T.s or other serious drinking situation, and straight away start picking and choosing how you will get sober? Come on man! This is your survival we're talking about here, not some chat show on tv.
i disagree, the dao could also be a "higher power", all religions have mystic roots, which are all different pathways to the same states. Christianity doesn't have to mean, "big man in sky".
Ye went to school and it was all god backed stuff. Surely ya took something out of it tho. Ye can count money.. . Aa. Some people are all in . Some people. Some people Some people..there Some people. And your you..
Great video man and a topic and question that I get asked about regularly. AA is just like any other human group. It'll have its extremists on either side. Its self righteous people and the people that want control. A lot of groups are not that dissimilar from your local church with your holier than thous and the busy bodies who want to be in your business all under the guise of godliness. Which is why I don't go to church. I have found that, as with everything, you have to shop around. I have found and am in some great groups in AA. Yes, they use the word God. Yes they say you should get a higher power. I have a higher power who I choose to call God, but he in no way, or very little way, represents the Christian God. I dont believe in Christianity or organized religion of any sort. There's not enough space here for me to get into my full belief system. The question I ask people when they balk at the whole higher power thing is this. How is your way working out for you? You can argue that there is no God. I can argue that there is a God. Neither one of us truly knows. But I know that if I keep drinking that I'm gonna find the answer a lot sooner than if get sober. So, what's the problem in suspending disbelief and getting a higher power if it means that you get to live a more fulfilling, good life for what time you have left here.
On a side note. If you get all caught up in the BS that AA can turn into withbits cliques and such, then that's your fault. Stay out of it. Focus on the message and save yourself. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing.
I almost spat out my drink when you said entropy. That is also my higher power
(Drink was water)
I just KNEW I wasn't alone in this. How's it working out for you?
Another great video per usual. There are secular versions of AA too. I highly recommend the book "Staying Sober Without God" for a secular version of the 12 steps. It veers around a lot of terms people get hung up on in AA like God and powerlessness.
Brian, alcoholic, 14 months sober. My own journey to sobriety involved a hybrid- I was lucky enough to get into an outpatient recovery program, which set me up with a therapist, psychiatrist, a goal of hitting AA meetings each week regardless of your progress, and in my case, anti-depressants and a prescription for Antabuse. More than anything, Antabuse and therapy has been the most powerful tool in my quiver, and I still take my Antabuse every day.
But AA did and does appeal to me, greatly. I love being in the rooms, and as an atheist myself, I also struggle with the “higher power” directive and the heavy Christian undertones throughout… but to me, a room full of like-minded people, grouped together for the explicit purpose of community, recovery, and a sort of talk therapy, and all for free? That’s a fantastic resource, even if it’s not perfect by any means.
Very happy for you, and you make some valid points. AA is NOT perfect because it is made up of imperfect people. The same thing certainly applies to Government, Military, Education, Industry, Healthcare, Financial Institutions, Sports, etc, etc.
Unfortunately, many people will take the "God" thing in AA, mostly because they lack any real experience, and turn it into the "Swamp Creature", "Frankenstein", and "The Day the Earth Stood Still".
If not for the fact that people die on a daily basis from alcoholism, it would be absolutely laughable. At the very mention of "something greater than themselves" they will turn around and like the "Walking Dead", head for the precipice. ⬇
@35mmShowdown I went to AA many years ago for a suspected drug issue, later, when I did deteriorate into AUD, I never thought about returning. A year and a half for me. Keep going man!!
I think you fill the void! Please keep talking because you are helping more people than you realize
My father taught me about Entropy at a young age. And I found that so fascinating and vast, that a law of disorder applies universally to all things. I even brought entropy up in therapy last week. I'm now 364 days sober. Year one tomorrow
6 year sober atheist - the only higher power i had to admit to existing is the power alcohol has on me when it’s in my system. my sobriety is entirely in my hands, and has to be so i can’t blame anything or anyone else for any slips. it’s down to me 100% no one and nothing is going to come to save me.
it’s in my hands. blaming other things and people for my drinking was the greatest reason i found it difficult to give up.
14:05 this is so true, however.
each to their own.
Shame on you gremlin.
"I'm about to step on a thousand different landmines". I absolutely love this introduction. Having been continuously sober for several decades, I find it highly entertaining when I read or hear about people who are vehemently opposed to the mere mention of god, higher power, power greater than ourselves, etc.
At the same time, I fully realize that there is NOTHING funny to the person new to sobriety. The truly amazing aspect of this, is most people refuse to look at, or accept the grocery list of negative consequences, very often severe negative consequences, that are present in their daily lives.
Never mind the marital difficulties, children living in fear, poor health, loss of job and income, loss of driver's license, and other legal issues, court costs, attorney's fees, detox and rehab stays, mental institutions, incarceration, and the real possibility of death!
When confronted, they'll say something like, "Ya, my life is phucking train wreck, but DON'T send me to those Gdamn meetings"! "What would the neighbors think"!
I can laugh about it now, because I was one of them! I certainly WASN'T laughing when I had to decide if I wanted to live or die. So, in conclusion, the "god" thing doesn't bother me in the least. Thirty years of a life in abundance, is all the evidence I need that all I have to do is 'Act as if"! ✌Mark
@markg.4246 Yes,many associated problems, many just don't get, I'm not atheist, but can understand why many people are.
This video is for me. I have to use the group as my HP right now. I was told that it "has to be something that you can't manipulate." I'll stick with the group as the HP right now. I am becoming more spiritual, However. Great video, Stu. I appreciate the topic. The thing is, when all else fails and you can't rely on yourself at all anymore, who do you turn to? Something greater than yourself? Other alcoholics? A bit of both? I am glad you touched on that. My father a retired engineer first told me about entropy. When I was really small, I asked, "Why do things decay and rust?" He explained that things will have a tendency to return to chaos over time.
The phrase "alcohol steals from tomorrow" refers to the idea that borrowing happiness from alcohol through drinking can lead to a sad, sick, or lonely tomorrow. This can lead to a cycle of borrowing happiness from tomorrow, which can deepen unhappiness and lead to destructive behaviour; the concept of alcohol as a thief makes a lot of sense to me, Stuart. Keep up the great work, sir.
It's so good to see you smile heartily my friend! Keep smiling and keep doing the good work.
Thank you sooooo much for this. I am new to A.A. and have just started my recovery (11 days sober as I write this).
I'm also an atheist (grew up in a Jehovah's Witness family and it left a BAD taste in my mouth concerning God and religion) and have had a hard time reconciling the "God and Higher Power stuff".
I think entropy has solved it for me. You could very well interpret it as what the Serenity Prayer is about.
Thank you. Definitely a subscriber now!
Thank you so much for speaking on this. I cannot tell you how many many times I have been to an AA Meeting and for some unknown reason I felt the need to explain that I’m just not religious. You wouldn’t believe the reaction I received. I walked out and honestly I haven’t been there since.
Thumbs Up 👍 and shared out.💞
At least you tried though, right? And that's som important. Trying things. Taking action.
@@_BatCountry Yes I did try and it looks like the group helps a whole lot of people. 😊
@@CMoore8539 Thankfully for you AA isn't religious, if the group was going on a religious basis it wasn't really AA, find a real AA group that knows how it's meant to be spiritual not religious
You've gone to the wrong groups then. I have found many groups that do not push God or require any belief in God.
Thank you so much for this. It's what ive been struggling with the most as a lifelong atheist.
I joke that my higher power is my fairy godmother 😅 luckily the groups I go to are pretty secular and I've been told at every meeting not to get too caught up in the 'God' aspect.
Day 16 and feeling a bit more positive about the future.
Really enjoying your videos!
Edited to add: I do SMART in addition to AA and it's actually helping me a lot. I have multiple addictions and mental health issues so it's a handy AA companion for me 😊
Go to hell then atheist.
The higher power is the individuals own concept, you're only meant to be willing and open minded to explore it. Its meant to be something bigger than yourself, AA isnt religious at all
Very well stated. Step 2, page 26 actually says, "First, Alcoholics Anonymous does NOT demand that you believe anything".
The higher power in AA and freemasonry for me has always been myself you know who actually is there at the end of the day when you try to sleep or in the last moments of your life it’s you you will be there and you will judge yourself harshly but fairly I want that version of me to be proud of the life I’ve lived
interesting point.
I did not grasp the many degrees of alcohol use severity until I heard some of Stu's stories. My experience has been nightly casual use up to many-day benders that gradually started earlier in the day. Eventually I'd realize today was the end of it and I'd begin the treacherous slog back to normalcy which may take an entire week. That being said, aside from some family members calling me an alcoholic one time (I disagreed) because I was cruising through 30 packs of bud heavies while doing yard work and painting during covid, it's been up to me to determine whether my drinking was bad or not. I never got in trouble for my drinking but I did fall off of a porch and broke my hand one time. Not being so publicly exposed allowed me to quietly slink out of the realm of alcoholism as if it had never happened. To me it is far easier to handle it that way if you can. Like it never happened. Rather than be reminded constantly that "I have a problem that could come back at any time". Anyway, I stopped drinking at least ten times the past two years so I had to build the no-alcohol muscle before it would take. The muscle gets stronger when your reason(s) for not drinking gets stronger. For me it took work in the form of deep thought and considering scenarios where I'd be tempted or coerced to drink. It's been over four months now and I regularly make jokes about my non-drinking when people try to force it on me. I just don't care anymore. For instance, I hung out with a group of drunk people last night that I told I wasn't drinking many times and some rounds the same girl would offer me a shot, and say something like "oh so your really not going to drink tonight?" like something had changed from 20 mins ago. It do be like that. But I watched the entire group get entirely shited and poor behavior commenced that led to some folks nearing blackout trying to drive home. I woke up this morning feeling just as good as I did yesterday morning and I have my past self to thank for that. I've realized that alcohol's only enhancement is it might give me an excuse to have been an asshole. Beyond that, it's become useless to me. If a group like AA will strengthen your resolve, then use it like any other tool. I prefer to just pretend it never happened. For me, life is too short to waste my limited attention span on reminding myself I used to drink way too much way too often.
Watched 4 videos in a row looking forward to viewing the rest...First time i went to AA ..they brought me and a few others from a residental rehab to a local AA meeting. It was winter nightime we were stood in the very badly lit carpark of a local sports club waiting for a keyholder to get inside...the local AA people were very friendly and we soon were having a bit of banter ...some of the local people noticed a figure in the shadow of the building about 50 feet away...to this day i could not see anyone....after a short chat 2 or 3 of them approached this figure..it was a young man who needed AA help but he was too nervous to come to the door..Now i realise both him and I needed help to get to our first AA meeting...me through the residental rehab and him through the concern of the local AA members.
The God thing never bothered me and this video makes crystal clear what an alcoholics real priorities must be.
Thank you Bat.
I'm glad your experience was a good one, and thank you for the positivity in the comments. You sound like you've got things under control now, congratulations for that.
What a great video. Nourishing for the soul.
Personally I find Nature is the closest I get to a higher power. When I’m out walking in nature I occasionally become struck by its enduring patience, its acceptance of the crap the human race (quite literally) dumps on it and its meticulous self repair and equanimity.
It’s rather like the grown up in the room that continually says, “I’ve got this and it’s going to be ok.” It starts each day, willing to try again.
Nunc Coepi a phrase that will be the closest I get to religious incantation. But it sort of sums it up for me. The power to always believe you can begin again.
Cheers, Bat Country.
Thank you for watching, I think we must be similar.
This is honestly my favorite channel at the moment, i love listening to channels with an atmosphere, a soul. And you truly have a magnifficent one.
AA is full of huge egos too and narcissistic people that make just as much drama and problems as your favorite bar on a Friday night. No thx AA.
The women at AA were a terrible influence on me.
I'm interested how you make it work.
I wouldn't write it off that easy. There could be the "right" meeting out there. My group has none of that. But how you stay sober or get there isn't important.
@@ShadesOClarity I'll vouch for that Shades 😎!!!
Not for me either. I did learn a little from it, but I found and find it culty. It’s just me on my own. It’s 11 years since I was in a meeting. I don’t miss it. I also wholeheartedly support anyone who finds it helpful to them, but it will never be a part of my life again. Sobriety is, though. It’s bloody great!
Thank you, Stuart, for addressing this issue and sharing your views.
I've never attended any AA meetings, only NA and CA, which of course comes down to the same principles
Much appreciated and I subbed.
First time in aa I felt like it was a cult. I didn't go back for awhile but was desperate to stop drinking. I met some good people from aa that helped me. I go to aa maybe 4 times a yr. It's not for me. 4 yrs sober now but still don't know how to live life right
Found you from @ShadesOClarity channel, I have a channel on addiction too. Love this video. I don't struggle with a higher power or God but so many people do and so many people have a wrong interpretation of what we mean. Even non alcoholics. Once it was explained to me in the steps that I can make my own version of God it all made sense and freed me to have a higher power of my own interpretation. I was never religious but I saw a lot of what you talk about, about both sides being pretty much the same thing and both seeming hypochritical (I have a tattoo'd blue haired 43 year old sister) I don't believe in the God in the clouds thing or that everything said at Church is good advice but that is what allows me to go church when I want to to sing and kind of get a community boost just like I would go to yoga or go workout. I believe heaven and hell are states of the mind. I can discern what I think is good advice and what I think is crazy talk and take what I like. Great video!
Oh man that yoga comparison is a really good one.
I subbed to your channel buddy, you've got some great stuff and I'll make sure I'm checking in. I hit one at random, about your friend's dad, and how grateful you are to be sober so you can be there for your friend. That's the kind of inspiration I'm always looking out for, so I appreciate you directing me towards it.
Take care mate.
@@_BatCountry Awesome! Thanks for the Sub! yeah stil trying to find my direction on here, your channel and the other ones ive seen have been very inspirational. Glad I could help improve your mood. Thats what its all about. All the best
"Bingo, we have a winner folks". "It all made sense and FREED me to have a higher power of my own". Like the majority of people in recovery, I paid a very high price for admission. After attending meetings on a regular basis, and despite all of my preconceived erroneous expectations, I realized that I was completely free to come to my own conclusions about...everything!
There was no cloaked figure in the corner yielding a sickle, no one was taking roll call, no one was sending me off with homework. There was no deadline for the "god" thing, or doing the steps, or getting a sponsor, or combing my hair differently...nobody really cared about any of that.
The majority were only interested in me "coming back" until the impossible happened. The compulsion to drink had left! When that happened, my "conclusions" became easier and easier.
All I have to know about god is...I AIN"T IT! ✌❤ Mark
@@markg.4246 exactly! There’s No Limits! You’re the man mark! Thanks for the reply
Find it easier to take the community and accountability aspects from AA and leave the identifying as a broken addict and higher power woo behind. Those who become addicted aren't just shells and broken vessels, we're good people who tried to cope in maladaptive ways.
I'd say 'we're people' instead of 'we're good people'. Good is a superfluous qualification, who knows there might even be 'bad people' there.
Keep up the good work my good man 👍 much respect
I'm a god-fearing, currently using alcohol. I was in AA for years but I was an atheist for many more. You can't offend me! I will watch this video as I see fit. Sober, drunk, devout, and disbelieving ain't none of you better than any other.
Absolutely god damn right brother. Thanks for the comment - I really appreciate your attitude.
It's NOT about "being better than any other". It's about having enough rigorous honesty with ourselves to be spared the Guillotine!
I haven't been diagnosed with a brain injury but I have had various injuries that I worry may have affected the way I think & behave. Once I slipped and fell headfirst & knocked myself out and was found snoring at the bottom of some stairs outside a friend's house. I have also had various fights (which I didn't start) where I have been kicked or punched in the head. It makes me think that this might have had something to do with my brain chemistry and why my alcoholism is so bad. I hope this doesn't sound too weird. It's just something I worry about a lot.
It is a totally valid concern, but the interaction between alcohol and brain damage is poorly understood, so there's not good odds that you'll ever know for sure. Just keep moving forward.
If it helps people I have no issues with it. I knew it wasn't for me a few years ago when I did actually find Jesus and true redemption. True healing in scriptures to deal with a multitude of Psychological problems. I got fed up with constantly being rejected by sponsors after even small relapses. No longer need human assistance in my sobriety. I listen to you bat and a few others on UA-cam just to remind me daily that I don't want that shirt life anymore. Your videos are a Godsend My Friend. I listen to the one you did on Kindling and it helps me stay and remain sober today. Stay Blessed and keep posting please, ❤ 🙏
On a lighter note... What is the music in the background? This really works well to complement the vocal delivery and visual style of the video. It's like that calming feeling you'd get watching 'Goodnight Sweetheart', alone with a cup of tea at night, when you had school the next day and were trying to forget about life just for an hour, because you had a big project due in and hadn't done a thing for it.
Oh I remember Goodnight Sweetheart, what a blast of nostalgia that is. Yeah, the music is a mix of stuff from that era.
Very curious about this video, the entire higher power aspect is holding me off of joining AA meetings.
God or no god, religion or none, the AA Higher Power serves as a placeholder for an unknown thing. Like Dark Matter. It isn't the same placeholder as "God" as a philosophy. It's like this:
"Some kind of apparently-magical THING made it possible for me to stop. I can't show it to you directly, and it's different for most everyone."
Then we describe the journey & maybe guess about what happened. I thought I had my metaphysics complete & I thought I knew God like my hand, but I was wrong. My sponsor didn't even WANT to believe in metaphysics, now he does.
Simple willingness & acknowledging one's ignorance seems like the Magic Key.
"God" is a 3 letter word. It's used as a cover all for your higher power. It can be whatever you want it to be. The key is to acknowledge and accept the fact that you aren't in control of this life and those around you. Once you come to truly accept it, serenity will follow.
@@Dan99664 i really don’t understand that acceptance. What does it benefit? Why am I powerless to fight addiction by myself.
Not trying to be obtuse but I don’t understand the concept.
@@vapormissile thanks for the comment. The dark matter analogy makes sense to me, very insightful.
@@Stormvogel262 Maybe you aren't powerless. But if you're anything like myself, everything else I tried failed. The same ego that led me to think I could do it on my own was the ego that was fueling my addiction. I'd got to the point where I'd do anything to stop, including adopting new beliefs. Step 1 was most important for me, many people conform but don't truly accept that they are an alcoholic. I know I didn't, despite the years of hurting others and ruining my life even Delirium Tremens. I chalked it up to "I'm mentally ill" (I am) or "I'm going through a rough decade" (also true). I thought because of the things I'd been through I was a tough fucker and I could overcome anything. Not so.... Sure, it may be a cult and I may be drinking the Koolaid but it works.
Loved your (audio)book and narration. Well done
Wow thanks so much, I'm really happy to hear that!
Ok I’m getting it … you are really quite good at explaining this
Hahaha, yeah, love phrase, and lot of snobbery in AA. If one is TRULY a spiritual person, they should realize that being supercillious, or condescending, is just off-putting, at best !
Christ was not that way, and I try , as a Christian, not to even think that way...I try. Really, the one who has a tittle of understanding, is the SERVANT of , shall I say ,one perceived as unenlightened.
Love ❤️ this channel !!!!
There's plenty of "snobbery" in church, government, education, military, healthcare, financial entities, public and private employers, etc, etc.
@markg.4246 oh FOR sure Mark !! I was just watching a documentary about the "class" system in the UK (yes it still exists), and then there's India!!
But I do see you're point .
And I'm in the US,and I don't have to go very far!!
I was just restricting my reaction to Stu's theme for the day.
For my own part, I used to "look differently " (not with cruelty, or disdain,just differently) at the homeless, UNTIL I was very nearly there ,and drinking....
So now let's say i have much more fellow feeling now , and ppl are individuals and can't be easily labeled into something stereotypical !!
IVE been to AA, and i feel i learned a LOT !! Mine was a good experience - perhaps not so much for Stu and many others. But to each his own.
These days I benefit more from this channel and others related to it, but I in no way look down at AA.
I do have a "higher power," but I don't feel better than those who say not
Proof? I love Christopher Hitchens, (rip), and I'm so glad he left behind a generous video collection of debates ...
Sorry for length, but just trying to clarify a bit ...
All the best!!!
Wow. The first time I have laughed uncontrollably at any recovery video, many times over. Sir, I salute you. You are my absolute inspiration. (Day 15, by the way. Still can't quite believe it.)
Congratulations on more than two weeks! I hope you're starting to see the benefits already. Stay vigilant mate.
I looked to the skies when rattling and sweating and the answer was not forthcoming. The two answers I did receive were to taper and to avoid AA. I did the latter, took the one night supply of librium and flushed the Southern Comfort down the toilet. Still no word from above.
Is there any way to get in contact with you for a talk? I’m on my 22th day sober and have followed all your videos, i’m 25 and have a full time job still (thank god) and do well financially but prio to my 22 days sober i nearly lost all in my life thats important. I’m determined and will never after my 12 day binge and withdrawal where i went delusional and expeeienced hallucinations ever go back to it. I genuinely would love to have a chat with you and if you cud give any piece of advice for me. Today i work full time have a partner since 4 years and workout 3 times a week and love learning languages. I usually go 4-5 months sober then binge 10 days and had it like that the last 10 years, your insightful and i felt like maybe you cud give useful advice so.. if possible let me know!
You can go that long sober? Wtf is your problem?
Get to a meeting. Simple as that.
You’re too fresh to be taken seriously best of luck though in my opinion only people who have conquered addiction are people
@@nothanks9503 Addiction is not something to be "conquered". Hopefully, we learn how to "live differently", which should be our focus.
The end result is that we don't have to consider taking a drink over ANYTHING! ✌
@@markg.4246 You go in the cocoon and come out different
You yourself are the higher power. This is what irks me about all religion. The strength lies within us, not without.
Achieving sobriety has nothing to do with "religion".
Nothing to do with religion but everything to do God
@@djcraigg69 What god?
@@djcraigg69Nah - it is your inner strength.
“Entropy”. Brilliant! And much nicer than “Death” which is the unavoidable result of human entropy. When I drink, I am most certainly hastening my physical deterioration…. My “Entropy”
A youtuber tells an alcoholic not to watch a video.
The alcoholic asks, what happens if I do?
SMART may well be a dumb N American acronym but it’s all based around CBT therapy. Our meetings are for all addictive behavior. There are no labels, no counting days and no sponsors. I spent 10 years going to N/AA and found SMART liberating after years in 12 step groups. However, as someone who now works in addiction recovery I recommend doing both, like you pointed out 12 step groups can be really helpful for the newly sober if you’re able to embrace the methodology of getting a sponsor and doing the steps … everyone deserves sobriety no matter how we get there … peace
Thank you for a thoughtful response where one was probably not deserved. Sorry for teasing about SMART. To be honest I did non-recovery-based CBT and found it very fruitful. And I certainly agree with your conclusions here.
I like the Enthropy concept , Gravity is an Enthropic force, Time is caused by Gravity - So its all links in back together. Enthropy is a good higher power .
I think so too, it really works.
Higher power is just your inner strength. AA is not for everyone.
STEP 1: admit ones powerless over alcohol
STEP 2: believe in a higher power
I guess Vodka because is has power over me and it mixes well with just about anything.
I find AA groups I go to are fully open to discussing "difficult" things. All AA asks is that you rely on a "higher power" - something greater than yourself. Be it an idea, a symbol, or whatever. It does not have to be God in any traditional sense. This is a gravely mistaken perspective.
Agreed.
Spot on. Thank you for your video. From one AA atheist to another.
Damn you had me when you said your higher power is Pikachu...
I'm more of a Squirtle kinda guy.
Dr.Brian Cox, in one of his tv documentaries, does a piece on entrophy...........check it out.
entropy ... I love it. The laws of physics seem like a pretty good higher power.
This christian man respects the shit about your choice of higher power. In fact, entropy itself is quite important to my faith.
I was one of those Hitchens/Dawkins/Harris/Dennett kids too.
I always especially liked Sam Harris' idea that, since every religion has followers that claim to have had a deep and transcendental moment of connection with God, that sort of simultaneously disproves the dogma of every religion, but also proves that there IS something there to connect with.
Like how can a Buddhist tell a Muslim that his experience was invalid because he was connecting with the wrong God? Maybe all these folks are connecting to the same thing and religion is just a middle man that needs to be cut out of the relationship.
I've personally felt that thing after decades of being a "nonbeliever", and have been able to talk about it with other AAs. Unfortunately the best word to describe it is "God", just to save time. It's a three-letter word, it's just easier to say than "the emptiness in which all matter exists and the consciousness that permeates all living things." Definitely really like the word "awe" though, as you mentioned. I guess that'd be the next closest word.
Unfortunately Sam's got some pretty fucked up and wack views on Islam/Israel/etc, but he definitely has some useful ideas. I really liked his book "Waking Up" for people trying to navigate this topic
Btw Stu did you watch any Amazing Atheist back in the day? That fat pottymouthed neckbeard? lol
One hell of an ending
How do you tackle the 1st step by basically being forced to admit you have no free will/agency? I agree with it (no fault of my own) but it is disconcerting to acknowledge that your brain/agency is the product of innumerable factors almost all of which are completely outside of one's control.
Powerless over alcohol, not powerless over everything. You have free will, just not with alcohol, and nobody should be forcing you to admit that you're powerless over alcohol. It's just something that you need to realize and accept for yourself so that you can begin the process of recovery.
@@thatpointinlife There either is free will or there is not.
@@madamegeorge7258, alcoholics don't have free will over their alcohol consumption. That's pretty much the defining characteristic of alcoholism.
I don't know where you're getting this notion that free will is either absolute or entirely non-existent.
Do you believe that Type 1 diabetics have zero free will because they can't eat sugar?
@@thatpointinlife "Free" will does not exist and is a fallacy. So, yes, but it has nothing to do with being diabetic. The laws of physics leave no room for free will.
It may be necessary in areas such as law, morality, ethics, etc, to falsely claim it exists, but it very obviously does not.
Good morning Stu. Excellent explanation. I am lay buddish. I believe in the Universe. Mother nature. Enthropy. There's so much debate as what live is. Simple. Anti-Enthropy... My beloved Wife is buddish. Clearly she helps me tremendously. For real. Again. Wise words. Thank you again mate...
You're soooo funny ! ! Just received your book I'm sure it will b amazin too ! I totally agree , I go to the odd zoom meeting of aa , just to remind myself I'm an alcoholic really n I like the people ! ' I don't know if smart' is meant to b from the ' specific , measurable achievable , realistic , time based ' model that is used when settin goals? So it's just the first letters of those words ? ! However it does sound like it would b full of dickheads ! They are everywhere ! X 😂❤
this is awsome and exatly how i feel
thank you
"the God you don't believe in, i also don't believe in."
Does it really matter if you go secular or religious as long as it works for you? Lots of things are out of our control. Blame "God", the "universe" or that life ain't fair. Hope we all getter better.
I get a commercial for missionary of Jesus Christ before this video!😂
REALLY?!? That's amazing. I wonder if I should control the ads a bit better... but... I also need the ad revenue...
About AA, there are a few more problems than just the higher power thing. But this depends on the group members and not the system itself. The most dangerous is the influence of others to get "completely sober" where they demand, medications for diseases and disorders would also count as addictions. Like i saw people with the same bipolar disorder that i have, they were told to stop with medication. This can be very dangerous, to go against the docs therapy and prescription of meds, where such a disorder can come back at full power and hit you in the face like a punch. I have to tell the people that the experts like doctors come first and disorders need treatment, because without treatment, one will relapse sooner or later anyway.
So my rather bad opinion is just about some groups, not about all AA groups and not about the entire system. I can't agree with "you are looking for excuses", i maybe mentioned it in another thread: Where i live in Europe, we do individual detox, rehab in a clinic and after this a long time therapy with an expert. This can be a way too, it's not like just because you reject AA, that you don't want or can't get sober.
P.S. The AA groups that i heard of which are so extreme about medications are usually from the USA, from the "Bible Belt" and they take it a lot more serious with the higher power than other groups. It's for sure not like this with every group, like i said.
I have always heard if you have a prescription for medication take your medicine, any fool suggesting people stop taking their meds would be sternly educated in the groups I go to.
@@cherrycarter8442 Then it is a good group. I mean, there are many good groups and people around, but not all groups are like this.
My HP is very close to yours; but I use the word “POSSIBILITY” as the origin of all probabilities, like zero is the origin of all numbering systems & math.
Possibility has no size, no temperature, no location. It actually doesn’t exist just as zero does not actually exist.
thanks!!! very helpfull
😅 despite multiple starts and stops on my part to contribute something meaningful to the thread here, you ended up saying everything almost exactly as I would have said it or wished to focus upon. So I'll just shut up. Cheers.
This is not an attack, please I promise!! It’s only to challenge your thinking : but to whom do you pray to? To a scientific theorem? Life is so full of troubles even without alcohol. It’s not a religion but a relationship to a Father. ‘This essence of true religion is helping widows and orphans.’ Now that’s a religion. How about a relationship with a loving Father?? I am so relieved to have that feeling of dependence.
Boyles hitting the title game
. Check back in a bit
another one is "lifering". i believe its an offshoot of "smart" they are a secular recovery group with online meetings every day. lots of AA refugees there. no snobbery involved
I want to go to AA but I don't like the giving up booze stuff.
The God aspect is actually not a problem for me with AA, even though I’m an atheist, I can get past that. My problem is literally everything else about the program. It feels like a cult and their approach to sobriety seems completely uninformed and toxic. Not for me.
I know. And I agree. But if it's someone's first week of sobriety, and their life is in the balance, is that what you would tell them? That the program is toxic and culty and unscientific? I wouldn't. I would tell them it's a room full of sober people. I think, in those important early stages, *some* help is better than no help. It's the first last resort: there they might at least make contact with someone who can call an ambulance if they relapse.
@@_BatCountryfair enough and that’s why I still go sometimes even though I don’t necessarily like the program, it’s just nice to have the fellowship of other alcoholics, where else can you easily find that? And I wouldn’t say any of that to someone trying to get sober I would definitely encourage them to go.
@@jonathanturkmusic Try a pub, you're taking up the space and time of someone that might need the program,AA isn't a social talking therapy it's a three part program
@@jonathanturkmusicRight, because nobody "trying to get sober" would possibly read your initial comment. Now what?
Thank you for this. I was brought up Christian and have mostly negative and some outright traumatic memories of it, so the Christian roots have kept me very far from AA. I'm not ready to give them a chance, but you've given me food for thought.
I'm not an alcoholic but I've been watching a lot of your videos to try and understand it better. I have a friend with a big drinking problem and he uses the god stuff as an excuse to not go to AA. I want to make him watch the last 3 minutes of this video. It's nothing I haven't told him before - I've even said to him he can redefine "god" to be whatever he wants it to be much like you talk about doing - but I wonder if hearing it from someone who has been through it themselves would resonate better? Or is it a bad idea or a waste of time. Part of me just wants to cut ties and let the bastard rot. The other part can't help but care.
I understand that conflict you're in. If it helps, my email address is in the description. Get hime to reach out to me and I'll slap some sense into him on your behalf.
@@_BatCountry Very generous of you. I'll try to get him to reach out. Thank you for this, and for sharing your stories. Sincerely.
Just found you. Why "Bat Country"?
It’s a quote for Hunter S Thompson
There's no scientific basis behind AA, though. And there can be a danger with recovery groups as well, I know one rehab in my area is notorious for taking in alcoholics and churning out meth addicts.
The "Entropical Church of Godly Science"? It has a nice ring to it. Just think of the discussions this will raise after a sermon.
"A power greater than myself?" Well I've no problem there....Alcohol was , is, and always will be a power greater than myself. You
come out of a bout of D.T.s or other serious drinking situation, and straight away start picking and choosing how you will get
sober? Come on man! This is your survival we're talking about here, not some chat show on tv.
i disagree, the dao could also be a "higher power", all religions have mystic roots, which are all different pathways to the same states. Christianity doesn't have to mean, "big man in sky".
Again
:)
You discover why addictions and vice exist. So reglions can snare you.
They tell you psycology is a new science.
Actually laughed out loud 24:30 to 25:00.
The rest is good, too. Obviously.
not fair mate, my mushrooms are great and one day you will reply!
4:11 lmao. But strippers are more fun sober or with 3 energy drinks
Honesty with yourself is vital for recovery. Next share say you’re a dildo salesman. A great step towards honesty for you.
Everyone already knows that.
Levity
😂
I’m really liking your analysis! But…. You lost me with “progressive polyamorous anarco capitalist atheists”….
I love all the God stuff -- I found God through AA -- God is Everything
God ain’t shit
Ye went to school and it was all god backed stuff. Surely ya took something out of it tho. Ye can count money.. . Aa. Some people are all in . Some people. Some people Some people..there Some people. And your you..
I did not have a hire power just my mind to quit.
SHAME ON YOU, if you shame or ignore god, satanists are nasty and dirty.
I'm the higher power.
I stopped drinking by myself, for myself.
The end.
@@mrbenn1489 Are you alcoholic?
Brilliant