This was an excellent discussion that really clarified things for me as someone in nar-anon and someone who follows Sam Harris's meditations. Not only did it clear up the 12 steps for me, but it helped me understand the "look for the looker" concept in meditation that I struggle so much with. You both complemented each other really well. David asked all of the questions and clarifications that I was wondering myself, and Mike brought his knowledge and experience to answer the questions very well. Thank you both! Liked, subscribed, saved, and shared.
Hey, thank you so much for the thoughtful comments! We sincerely appreciate your feedback and for taking the time to watch the video. I'm glad you found it helpful. I wish you all the best on your journey. The waking up app is amazing!! thanks again for the encouraging comment!
This is an explanation that works as far as step 2. But after that, the language used in the book is abundantly clear in its description of a god that does or does not do, gives or takes, an entity responsible for outcome. This is the block for folks like the questioner, and myself. 9:47
Yeah this is a really good point and question. There is also a lot of focus on the idea that you are to interpret it as you wish and in a manner that helps you. We learn to separate our interpretations of other people's perspectives and of the literature. Take what you need and leave the rest. All the silly cliches and sayings are there because they're helpful and point us in the direction of progress. Is it possible for you to let go of this and open to a possibility that something other than your thinking mind can help guide you towards a better life? It's hard to have these nuanced discussions in the comments. I hope this is somewhat helpful.
Hey, it’s not about “fault” it’s about responsibility. It’s hard to communicate these things over the comment section. This note comes with compassion which you can’t really feel through the text. Simply, it’s your responsibility to learn how to manage your anxiety so that you can address other things in your life. It’s not fair per se, it’s just reality. If we hide behind the excuses, then we never get anywhere.
@StartsWithMeChannel excuses I literally feel like I can not move my body parts when anxiety hits I can take responsibility and all but I still can't do it
One of the reasons I prefer and am grateful for another 12-step program that is not AA is because there is, in my opinion, an undue focus on “The Book” to such an extent that it has become a sort of scripture for many members. I don’t believe that’s how the author/s intended it, nor, for that matter, the authors of much of traditional religious scripture. My experience is that the received wisdom/oral tradition in the program also emphasizes reliance on an HP to have the defects removed as well, not just the immediate addiction. I’m not sure I heard that from this discussion. I generally enjoyed this discussion. Liked and subbed
Thank you so much for watching and subscribing!! I appreciate your insight and thank you for adding perspective and wisdom to our conversation. Not sure you want to share, but would love to know what other program you’re referring to. Take it easy, peace out 🙏🙏
I assumed that might be the case. Thanks so much for your reply!! I haven’t read the NA book. I have been to a few of the meetings. I have read the MA book and it’s pretty good. I’m most familiar with the AA big book
Hey @paulydavis1685 thanks for the great question! Not such a straightforward answer in the comments, my short answer would be, you can pray or attune to anything other than your self-centred ego. How about simply the wonder and impossibly complex universe we live in? Or into the unknown, or something that allows you to let go of the illusion that you can control everything. I hope that helps a little bit!
I just left a meeting yesterday feeling drained and depressed, I thought the lunch crowd would be different than the breakfast crew, h*ll no, give your life to Jesus on and on, thanks for the head ache, oh and the nonstop AA promos, obviously you can't outscore your recovery to a fictional entity, that's why you relapse over and over for the last 30 years. Try something else.
Hey, thanks for your comments/insight. I think the nature of each meeting/crowd is really different. Nothing is perfect nor always what we want. One important question I always as is, what are the alternatives? Can I let go of what I let get in my way of opening to helpful messages and insights, and can I find a group or process that allows me to stop fighting everything so much.
Can you be connected to GOD without religion?
@@StartsWithMeChannel belief in god spawned religion
This was an excellent discussion that really clarified things for me as someone in nar-anon and someone who follows Sam Harris's meditations. Not only did it clear up the 12 steps for me, but it helped me understand the "look for the looker" concept in meditation that I struggle so much with. You both complemented each other really well. David asked all of the questions and clarifications that I was wondering myself, and Mike brought his knowledge and experience to answer the questions very well. Thank you both! Liked, subscribed, saved, and shared.
Hey, thank you so much for the thoughtful comments! We sincerely appreciate your feedback and for taking the time to watch the video. I'm glad you found it helpful. I wish you all the best on your journey. The waking up app is amazing!! thanks again for the encouraging comment!
This is an explanation that works as far as step 2.
But after that, the language used in the book is abundantly clear in its description of a god that does or does not do, gives or takes, an entity responsible for outcome.
This is the block for folks like the questioner, and myself. 9:47
Yeah this is a really good point and question. There is also a lot of focus on the idea that you are to interpret it as you wish and in a manner that helps you. We learn to separate our interpretations of other people's perspectives and of the literature. Take what you need and leave the rest. All the silly cliches and sayings are there because they're helpful and point us in the direction of progress. Is it possible for you to let go of this and open to a possibility that something other than your thinking mind can help guide you towards a better life?
It's hard to have these nuanced discussions in the comments. I hope this is somewhat helpful.
...and the reason AA is filled with outsourcing lifelong relapsers, obviously AA doesn't have the answers 😂
Thank you for this video 😊
Thank you for watching and for the encouraging words!
I stick with power greater than myself = fellowship
Love it 🙏
Thanks for watching and sharing your wisdom!
Unless your anxiety won't even allow you to access the fellowship then what somehow it's your fault you didn't try hard enough
Hey, it’s not about “fault” it’s about responsibility. It’s hard to communicate these things over the comment section. This note comes with compassion which you can’t really feel through the text. Simply, it’s your responsibility to learn how to manage your anxiety so that you can address other things in your life.
It’s not fair per se, it’s just reality. If we hide behind the excuses, then we never get anywhere.
@StartsWithMeChannel excuses I literally feel like I can not move my body parts when anxiety hits I can take responsibility and all but I still can't do it
One of the reasons I prefer and am grateful for another 12-step program that is not AA is because there is, in my opinion, an undue focus on “The Book” to such an extent that it has become a sort of scripture for many members. I don’t believe that’s how the author/s intended it, nor, for that matter, the authors of much of traditional religious scripture.
My experience is that the received wisdom/oral tradition in the program also emphasizes reliance on an HP to have the defects removed as well, not just the immediate addiction. I’m not sure I heard that from this discussion.
I generally enjoyed this discussion. Liked and subbed
Thank you so much for watching and subscribing!! I appreciate your insight and thank you for adding perspective and wisdom to our conversation. Not sure you want to share, but would love to know what other program you’re referring to.
Take it easy, peace out 🙏🙏
@ I attend primarily NA
I assumed that might be the case. Thanks so much for your reply!! I haven’t read the NA book. I have been to a few of the meetings. I have read the MA book and it’s pretty good. I’m most familiar with the AA big book
"...as I understand HIM" btw
Sam Harris is my Higher Power not that he knows about it or anything, he doesn’t, but still ❤
So much talk of prayer though. Do I pray to my non centered ego?
Hey @paulydavis1685 thanks for the great question! Not such a straightforward answer in the comments, my short answer would be, you can pray or attune to anything other than your self-centred ego. How about simply the wonder and impossibly complex universe we live in? Or into the unknown, or something that allows you to let go of the illusion that you can control everything.
I hope that helps a little bit!
All they “Agnostic AA” talk about is God anyway. 🙄
I just left a meeting yesterday feeling drained and depressed, I thought the lunch crowd would be different than the breakfast crew, h*ll no, give your life to Jesus on and on, thanks for the head ache, oh and the nonstop AA promos, obviously you can't outscore your recovery to a fictional entity, that's why you relapse over and over for the last 30 years. Try something else.
Hey, thanks for your comments/insight. I think the nature of each meeting/crowd is really different. Nothing is perfect nor always what we want. One important question I always as is, what are the alternatives? Can I let go of what I let get in my way of opening to helpful messages and insights, and can I find a group or process that allows me to stop fighting everything so much.