Assa is way better than people think, especially because nobody really plays it. It has a great sustain dmg + mortal strike effect. If you play with a priest who focuses on instant dispels, the worse mobility isn't an issue. I personally think that it's worth playing DeadlyP in MH and Wound(auto Cripple) in OH, so you can Shiv the cripple whenever you need, kite, restealth and get the dmg bonus after every restealth. You mostly want to kill the healer so you dmg him as much as you can, when he gets away, you kite the enemy dps, restealth and jump on the healer again.
that can totally be the case with some specs - ppl just don't play it...thanks for the tips, I will have to go back to this comment once I try Assa myself 😄
Yeah ngl i checked out the second Assa was thrown in with Combat, Assa is not Sub by any means it does not have the control or burst windows of it but it can absolutely shine as a spec in the grand scheme it has way better sustained damage and at the end of the day pressure can win games as much as burst windows can , Spriest with Assa Rogue for example in 3s is insane pressure its only real downside is that it lacks the mobility sub has , if it wasnt for that it'd probably be a lot more widely used as it does some nearly as well as sub except you exchange that burst for sustained damage , especially in earlier seasons with lower gear it really shines when Sub cant get its hands on a ton of ArP
As a retribution paladin who had a sub rouge on his side and reached 2189 elo with this duo with around 1000 ranked match / seasion experience I can say this list is totally correct. What I have noticed as a personal experience is that the matchup is more decisive than talent specification when you play arena 2v2. We had heavy fight with Desc / Affli Lock or Balance Druid + Element Shaman, Holy Paladin or DC Priest or Restro Druid + Arms Warrior or Unholy DK, Frost Mage / Sub Rouge / Marksman Hunter + Disc Priest, SH Priest + Sub Rouge, Affli Lock + DC Priest, Frost Mage - Affli Lock, Marksman Hunter + Holy Paladin, Arms Warrior + Unholy DK, But we prepared for all kinds of scenarios with a CC, Cooldown and Proc / Burst Route and macro keys when you need to do many things in one moment (wing+trinket for example). Ah... that were good times.
Ret+Rog is probably my most favorite 2v2 comp ever on most expansions - amazing control over the game, damage, but also incredible survivability and offhealing, I wish I would find a rogue player that I could play with on a high level 🥺 the anticomps you named sound exactly like what I would expect, thanks for your feedback!
@@MEYTRIX This comps were hard sometimes, but it was always depending on the players or the gear, maybe luck. I don't say that they were our oblivious counters, but strong matchups for real (Except the UH-DK Arms Warrior, there is nothing that we can do :DDD). As you wrote the R Paladin S Rouge has so many good synergy, we were relying on them to deal with the odds.
Hey man, this is the best tier list i've watched so far - fast, direct and a lot of info in a short video! In your opinion, what are the best 2's comp for SHADOW PRIEST? Is it any good with rogue?
Hey, thanks for a nice compliment! SP + Rog is definitely a very good comp, also with frost mage - those 2 comps can easily fight for the top ranks, you can also play with an UH DK - it’s not as good as the previous ones, but still solid
Orangemarmalde played arcane in 2v2 and won the MLG finals with it, and his opponent also played arcane, how is this overlooked in literally every tier list. The fact is mage/disc priest is S tier comp for 2v2.
I think classes like that (where it’s mostly about burst dmg) tend to be weaker over time since ppl learn and can predict when it’s coming, so they pop their defs in time…that’s why some specs that used to be OP 13 years ago when players didn’t know nearly as much about the game won’t be as good now
Bursty comps will be undervalued because everyone is used to playing with baubles of true blood/skeleton keys on private servers. Such comps are not so good if you're prepared for them it also means good players aren't going to play those comps because they know people will use those items
I'm looking to play casual pvp in WOTLK (mainly solo bgs). I was leaning towards a melee class and was torn between Warrior and Ret Pally for my character boost but it seems like for solo pvp content, its preferable to go with a caster? Now I'm undecided between the both melee classes I already mentioned and SPriest/Ele shammy. If it's not asking too much, which would you recommend out of both melees, both casters and just one if you had to pick one?
for solo, you definitely don't wanna go warrior (especially arms) since it's a spec made for playing with a pocket healer, so ret would be way better in most instances, and both SP or Ele could work great, they both also have solid offhealing, great AoE, Ele does more AoE damage via Chain lightning straight up, while SP relies on DoTs so it's up to personal preference - what playstyle you like better
@@MEYTRIX I think I prefer the play style of a SPriest but apparently it falls off in Cata though? And priest has no other dps spec. What’s your opinion on Locks? They seems fun to play casually, good in bgs(?) and normally has at least one viable spec throughout each expansion/patch?
@@jac_91 yeah, lock would be a safer bet long-term if you only play a dps, SP is really nerfed in Cata, but super strong on WotLK...but lock is also pretty bad on Cata, only really viable in affliction spec in 3s and BGs, you have some solid comps for 2v2, but it's not such a good option
@@MEYTRIX I think I’ll probably go spriest. By the time that Cata is out, I’ll have more than enough time to level another character and blizzard will probably have another character boost available too. Thanks for the advice, appreciate it
@@jac_91 I’ve been playing SPRIEST and it’s a blast. I highly recommend it. Just be prepared to get facerolled in bgs by warriors, palis and dks in any bg other than AV. I’m hoping it’s just Prepatch but most bgs are majority those 3 classes. You can 1v1 them seperately but up against a Zerg you get chewed up in seconds. In arena though I was blasting literally any class with a good healer. So fun.
Arcane Mages C-tier? RIght. Considering you're speaking about multiple aspects of PvP. I guess you haven't played much WoW then to know how insane bursty they are (can be). Yes they are *Very* squishy even having ice block and if a geared hunter see you, dead in two seconds. But to put the *best* caster for killing healers and put them in C-tier...lost for words really and btw no, I don't main Mage in Classic Wrath. I main Rogue accually. Here is some friendly reality check when it comes to BGs (too many YT videos only focus on Arena): ua-cam.com/video/kle9_B3Mveg/v-deo.html
A montage video by a youtuber made in random BGs against players that have no gear and no idea how to play is definitely not a reality check, you can make any class look OP like that 😅 and any average pvper will know when the burst is coming and use either their defensive CDs on time or LoS, so arcane might be good for those casual RBGs, duels or low mmr arena, but there are way better specs imo
@@MEYTRIX In other words, focuson only on Arena as 95% of all YT content creators do, as I said. Well I won't stand it against you and enjoy your niche gameplay with the minority of super min/maxers and their elitist jerk mentality. I don't mind Arenas but it's 2022, don't need to prove anything this time around like you did back in 2009. And calling rated bgs casual, well I stop there. Plus it's super fun and a good chucnk of the game as well. Sad part is too many only view pvp in WoW as endless E-sport/Arena. I'm a 43yo gamer, played mmo's since 2001 (Daoc) and WoW since the betas 2005, with breaks ofc, so I think it's safe to say I do know a thing or two as well 😂 *EDIT:* I see you give your hearts to like 98% of your comments, well those who agree with you, classic (lmao). If you really think Rbgs are just casual, then I would love to see how you manage a 15 vs 15 fight in ex AB. Show your "oh my so good 1 shot macros" in arenas. Well won't help much in a big fight. Yes it will help if you know your class but learning how to pillar hump 24/7 and win a 2vs2 or 3vs3 fight compared to winning a game (or know how to turn around a losing one) where it's 15 vs 15 skilled and geared people with good classes/setups. So I'll let you live your dream in arena that if you're good at that, you're a "pvp God" 🤣 Lastly, this "just a random guy making a youtube video with gear vs those with not" that many do accually but the point is, he's a quite known good pvp player in the community. Strangly enough he doesn't have too manhy subs, maybe not focusing on it too much, having a life or w/e. I could bet money that he would kick your hide easily regardless of class. Leaving with these final words: Some people who is not brainwashed buy the UA-cam meta slave juice they try sell their copy/paste "experience" from others, know better ^^
Very good tier list only thing i would Change places is mm to S and Sp to strong A. Assa is just good A tier combat is ok B tier . Arcane is Strong B tier. Very bursty. Overall very good pvp wrath tiet list. (The best tier list i ve ever seen)
Thanks for the feedback! I can imagine the bursty classes like arcane being especially better in nom rated or low mmr pvp where opponents underestimate their CDs, MM is usually strong, but sp is rarely as good as on WotLK, so I gave him extra points in comparison to Cata or TBC
it's an overall look at the past year of my experience on these servers, ofc you have servers like Warmane with a progressive Blackrock realm which changes over time - not only population-wise, but also in terms of the activity during the cycle and in different aspects of the game
rdru in Wotlk used to play in top comps, for example LSD B tier Boomkin was total shit A tier why? And ofc muti-prep rogues. This spec was dominating in Wotlk, much stronger and easier to play than sub
Many specs that were good 13 years ago are gonna be countered way more easily with the knowledge we have nowadays, but you are right about r druids, I remember Season Glad was r druid on my server years ago, I could have put it in A, boomkin is especially good I’d say on lower mmrs where he can burst opponents down unexpectedly, but also has a high skill ceiling where you can do some insane plays with all the CC and offheals even high on the ladder
casters are definitely better early on, since most melees scale with better gear - Shadowmournes, trinkets etc., but in reality - most people won't have the BiS PvE gear anyway, even when ICC comes out, it takes time to farm it, so I think you should be good with SP
man picking a class is so difficult for me. I've been leveling 3 different ones to see what clicks; warlock(23)/hunter(22)/rogue(10). Everybody ranks sub rogue S but my memory of playing rogue in wrath was really bad so I am very apprehensive about leveling it again. I get they *can* do a lot of burst damage, which can be hard to survive for some (cloth) classes however iirc they are essentially a glass canon that instantly shatters the moment anyone can attack them. I am also trying to make my picks so that I can play them well into cata too, but idk what to do.
Very true, rogue is a glass canon - if they catch you with no defs or trinket - you are dead…I might move rogues to A tier just because of how squishy they are outside of CDs, but they are extremely OP on Cata, especially the last season…as far as class picking, that’s rly personal, try looking at some videos of gameplay and see what u like the most
@@MEYTRIX Is that with or without the Legendary Daggers? From footage of cata I've seen so far rogues do about the same damage as they do in wrath. hitting for less than 10k normally meanwhile feral looks broken as fuck. 10k rip ticks, 40k Ferocious bites. just the damage alone from a feral not even accounting for their CC/defensives/self-healing is insane. Not sure what makes rogue so OP in cata.
@@boredgamer7841 ferals are broken, you are right, especially on early - on Vicious and Ruthless seasons...Rogues with legendaries and Bone Link trinkets - those trinkets alone proc for around 40k AoE dmg, and it procs pretty often
How is assassination rogue C tier? Sub is only good at the end of the expansion. I played envenom assassination rogue at 2400+ rating back in WOTLK. No one plays Sub the first couple of seasons.
I would love to see someone come up with specs like survival, fury warrior, demo lock and so on, make them look viable and prove us wrong, that would be awesome, and I am sure there is some potential with few of those specs
Ofc! I have a guide on it on my channel 😄 it’s great, but still struggles against casters (just like ret), and ofc does a but less dmg compared to ret, so I wouldn’t say it’s top OP, but it certainly deserves the S tier IMO
actually later into the expansion ppl will play aff over destro any day. the dmg and selfsustain is better than destro especially later into the xpac with more gear destro still struggles with being tunneld and not being able to cast meanwhile how you dont put feral into s-tier is a myth to me. Insane mobility, insane damage (early aswell as late into the xpac), good def aswell as insane cc literally outperforms any other a-tier spec by a mile aswell some of the specs you put into s-tier
Thanks for your feedback! Destro doesn’t mind interrupts as much though, since he uses 2 schools of magic, eg. you get kicked on Fear, but you can still cast destro spells, feral is really good, might get in S-tier too, I am comparing it a lot to the Cata expansion where feral is totally insane, so it’s not as amazing on LK compared to that, but debatable, could have made it in S instead of the squishy rogues for instance
@@MEYTRIX well thank you for taking the time to engage into a dialouge:) I know about destro having 2 spellschools but even with that their damage is easily avoidable. Once their pet dies twice(which isnt unusual) theyll have an even harder time. Dont get me wrong, they do insane dmg, but everyone knows it and no player over 1400 will stand there and let a lock freecast As aff you have more tools to survive (Haunt/drainlife/Corruption heal etc.) aswell as enemies having like 0 chance to avoid your damage Once we get into s7/8 aff will at least in 3s outperform destro by default like it was back then just think with ferals dmg, their surviv with having SI now, aswell as intant heals/clones and maim being a real stun i just think itd make sense to put them into s-tier
Shouldn't that problem not be fixed by LSD? And why play affliction in arenas, when you can play shadowpriest?(disarm, dispersion, unremovable dmg mitigation with shadowform > Pet SL) The one is vastly nerfed, the other buffed against melees. Pretty sure you will face a ton of melees like its on retail. Warriors with 50% MS(its really still 50%? not 25% in pvp right?) you won't heal anything against that and TSG makes sure you are slowed by chains to 95% in the middle of the arena and 50% while at pillars by uhdks desecration and both warrior and dk are basicly immune to fears, so spamming fears isn't really viable. How much better do you have to play to overcome all of this? Melees and their ms are hardcountering affliction. Destro lock at least can still burst one through absorbs with chaos bolt ifit ever gets off and dot will take too much time to work you won't survive that against any expierenced TSG or lets say i do not see many wins with that strategy when destro is so much better, just stay in sight of the elemental shaman and your healer thats quite enough, if they focus you as lock. Think demo works quite well in arenas. ua-cam.com/video/3KSGr00iVR0/v-deo.html - notice how long the stun lasted on demo meta while hellfire was doing the job, not exactly high rated arena, tbh, tho, its easy to avoid by running until meta is off. ua-cam.com/video/UHS5Hp2u298/v-deo.html - demo can do much dmg, while tanky, too and seems to be a great pic 2s in early stages of the game. If anything demo is very underrated in most Tier lists i saw, so far. I remember how squishy affliction and destro was in original wotlk in s5 and how hard TSG countered it. I would suggest to play something else as a class if you wanna do arenas early, but demo seems quite viable and fun, until high rated.
@@zeusapollo6504 good thinking, but talking about demo - those videos were shot against people obviously new to arena, nobody plays so bad in a comp that has never been viable
they are both super-fun to me, especially on WotLK, it's just different kind of fun...but I prefer warrior since mages are always OP at least in 1 spec, while warriors sometimes suck on other expansions - and you can play arms or prot in pvp on WotLK
Bm hunters are super fun and easy to play, I was able to reach 1850+ in starter gear with a same geared enh shaman. /blackrock s8 and this was in last week/
Nah, if I take so much into consideration, it’s really hard, cause where do you put a class that owns in arena but sucks in world pvp or duels…I might go deeper in a ranking where I specifically judge the classes only in 1 pvp bracket in the future
@@MEYTRIX don´t get me wrong, I´m a pretty high rated player on my paladin that I´ve had since vanilla classic. And yes, you can delete scrubs no doubt. But if you face off against a somewhat good player, you´re gonna get countered. Wings, HoF, sac, buffs.. it can all be easily dispelled or stolen from a dps class who´s primary dmg is derived by amazing buffs. It´s because of that reason I dlslike retri paladins in pvp, you´re top tier among sheep but the small dog among the wolves pretty much. I look forward to you proving me wrong on this one :)! I will wear critical glasses when watching the video though ;)
@@oJackOfSpades haha, good points, I always make sure to be rebuffing and even using trash buffs to make it harder for enemies to dispel, don't forget you have some talents that make it less likely to get dispeled and also - each dispel press takes a GCD away from your opponent, so it's not without a cost!
@@MEYTRIX Agreed. As opposed to earlier expansions where you could potentially trick people by applying lower rank buffs at a low mana cost and win by attrition, this is no longer avaible. Hence why I feel like paladins are so vulnerable against casters with dispells. Like you said you can fill up your buff bar with a bunch of nasty, misc buffs just to make it harder for the caster, however I find that you normally get dispelled while in a CC anyway as a setup rather than as an offensive strat during the culmination of setup/kill. Anyway looking forward to that video!
Im agree almost with every spec except Assa, sub is way better but i think assa is B-A Tier Can go high with ret, sp, disc, enh, resto(sham) and ele in 2s In 3s at the moment on warmane its the spec with the best rating form rogues Btw im finally 2k warmane player :D
@@MEYTRIX Nah, those classes have no chance against unholy dk but ret pala is gonna take 20 mins of 1v1 to beat. Unbeatable for unholy dk is shadow priest, Frost mage, aff warlock and maybe destro lock
@@Zeralop lock would get smoked just by popping the gargoyle alone, unless ofc the lock is able to LoS like crazy etc, but then even the aforementioned hunter can just shoot max range and be untouchable
@@MEYTRIX You don't need too much Los, and I'm talking 1v1 in normal circumstances, like arena, or in front of orgrimmar. Also, I forgot to mention another spec, elemental shaman. You can't beat him cuz he can outheal your dmg in melee range. He will never oom and he can kill you when ur cds are. Down, but its gonna take 20 mins or so.
@@MEYTRIX and affliction warlock can kill you in melee range aswell. He will heal too much, use void walker for shield and deal too much dmg to outheal it.
Marksman - S tier. Max skilled MM is a monster. it just scales very high with skill (like rogue). Protwarr - S tier. You havent heard of the full arp crit oneshots and mass spell reflect ? in full icc/rs pve gear this is one of the most insane specs in the game. Oneshots hard and has tons of stuns and silences. pure carnage with 0-500resilience. Fire - A tier, needs gear and can wreck melee and caster alike. kinda random, but very strong esp in 3v3. Arcane - A tier. Really good with a rogue for oneshots. Its weaker than the other two mage specs but it is better than Moonkin for sure. Assassin - A tier, very strong vs plate esp with a SP or DIsc. thats all, just tunnel warriors and palas and win. BM - A tier, its quite strong spec, especially the 50/21 (readines) with wolf/ravager works wonders. Survival - A tier with pala or priest imo. feels quite strong Prot pala - A tier. With Rsham it has a really solid comp that can give hard time to warr/pala and has good matchups vs pretty much anything that isnt mage/priest. Frost DK - A tier. super good with hpala in 2s. can setup almost 100% guaranteed kills with hungering cold+hoj combos. Rdruid and Rsham - both A tier. no healer is under A tier in wotlk. Both are really good healers for warlock in 2s and 3s . Demon - B tier. its all about paladin and turnevil. its very hard counter and pala is meta. otherwise it really wrecks melee and the burst is quite insane if u can land a full immolation aura ontop of people its GG. Moonkin - B tier. Its too squishy without many def cds. it can dish out insane dmg in BGs but in arena its just very hard to deal with all the melees on steroids and one mistake can cost you alot. Fury warr and Holy priest are C tier. that is ofcourse s8 with access to icc and rs pve gear. some of these specs are worse in earlier seasons (like prot warr,fire mage) but some are better (BM hunt, ENH sham)
that's the thing - comparing specs across all seasons with different gear available + including all kinds of PvP, it's kinda hard to be fair to everyone...but thanks a lot for your input, I gotta get you for a future video! :D
Im a newbie at wow but this doesnt seem logic to me. 90% of players in wotlk private servers are warrior/paladin/dk and i usually see them top rankings... The combo arms warrior/holy paladin destroys rule arena.. I find it difficult to place them same tier with all the other classes u mentioned... Ofc u say pvp generally and not only arenas but still....
@@goldenmemes51 I would say it's one of the top comps, idk if S or A tier since there are so many viable comps out there, but definitely a solid choice
Hey , aiming to tryhard 2s/3s at launch WOTLK , what would you advice between Arms or UH DK or Feral from ur knowledge and experience ? ( I do not have any play style , 2.8 LS exp on retail aiming to tryhard ladder in 2s then in 3s on WOTLK S5 )
out of these 3, I would probably give the edge to DK - it has many comps it can run in 2s (with healers, ret/preg, shadow priest) and in 3s (TSG, SP, Affli) so even if you are unsure who you'll be playing with, you should have no big issues looking for arena partners, and DK is overall really solid in any pvp situation...but arms and feral are really good too, you wouldn't go wrong picking one of them either
Bro do you even know the game ? :D lol What you mean Assasination rogue nobody plays at PvP :D hahahah and the shaman have wind sear which is 5 sec cd and its ultimate.
Assa is way better than people think, especially because nobody really plays it. It has a great sustain dmg + mortal strike effect. If you play with a priest who focuses on instant dispels, the worse mobility isn't an issue. I personally think that it's worth playing DeadlyP in MH and Wound(auto Cripple) in OH, so you can Shiv the cripple whenever you need, kite, restealth and get the dmg bonus after every restealth. You mostly want to kill the healer so you dmg him as much as you can, when he gets away, you kite the enemy dps, restealth and jump on the healer again.
that can totally be the case with some specs - ppl just don't play it...thanks for the tips, I will have to go back to this comment once I try Assa myself 😄
I played all of wrath arena and sub is trash until later in the expansion. Assassination will be the main spec first season of wrath 110%.
@@BigD4ddyK Imma give it a go one of these days on Warmane's Furious season to see how it does
Yeah ngl i checked out the second Assa was thrown in with Combat, Assa is not Sub by any means it does not have the control or burst windows of it but it can absolutely shine as a spec in the grand scheme it has way better sustained damage and at the end of the day pressure can win games as much as burst windows can , Spriest with Assa Rogue for example in 3s is insane pressure its only real downside is that it lacks the mobility sub has , if it wasnt for that it'd probably be a lot more widely used as it does some nearly as well as sub except you exchange that burst for sustained damage , especially in earlier seasons with lower gear it really shines when Sub cant get its hands on a ton of ArP
@@BigD4ddyK sub is not trash at any point in the expansion
As a retribution paladin who had a sub rouge on his side and reached 2189 elo with this duo with around 1000 ranked match / seasion experience I can say this list is totally correct. What I have noticed as a personal experience is that the matchup is more decisive than talent specification when you play arena 2v2. We had heavy fight with
Desc / Affli Lock or Balance Druid + Element Shaman,
Holy Paladin or DC Priest or Restro Druid + Arms Warrior or Unholy DK,
Frost Mage / Sub Rouge / Marksman Hunter + Disc Priest,
SH Priest + Sub Rouge,
Affli Lock + DC Priest,
Frost Mage - Affli Lock,
Marksman Hunter + Holy Paladin,
Arms Warrior + Unholy DK,
But we prepared for all kinds of scenarios with a CC, Cooldown and Proc / Burst Route and macro keys when you need to do many things in one moment (wing+trinket for example). Ah... that were good times.
Ret+Rog is probably my most favorite 2v2 comp ever on most expansions - amazing control over the game, damage, but also incredible survivability and offhealing, I wish I would find a rogue player that I could play with on a high level 🥺 the anticomps you named sound exactly like what I would expect, thanks for your feedback!
@@MEYTRIX This comps were hard sometimes, but it was always depending on the players or the gear, maybe luck. I don't say that they were our oblivious counters, but strong matchups for real (Except the UH-DK Arms Warrior, there is nothing that we can do :DDD). As you wrote the R Paladin S Rouge has so many good synergy, we were relying on them to deal with the odds.
My lovely comp... 😁
its strange you say nobody playing assa, cause if you look warmane the best 2 3v3 team rogues are both assa
classic andies have no clue what they're in for. its not 2008 anymore.
I gotta check those leaderboards more, thanks for letting me know!
Hey man, this is the best tier list i've watched so far - fast, direct and a lot of info in a short video! In your opinion, what are the best 2's comp for SHADOW PRIEST? Is it any good with rogue?
Hey, thanks for a nice compliment! SP + Rog is definitely a very good comp, also with frost mage - those 2 comps can easily fight for the top ranks, you can also play with an UH DK - it’s not as good as the previous ones, but still solid
Orangemarmalde played arcane in 2v2 and won the MLG finals with it, and his opponent also played arcane, how is this overlooked in literally every tier list. The fact is mage/disc priest is S tier comp for 2v2.
I think classes like that (where it’s mostly about burst dmg) tend to be weaker over time since ppl learn and can predict when it’s coming, so they pop their defs in time…that’s why some specs that used to be OP 13 years ago when players didn’t know nearly as much about the game won’t be as good now
Bursty comps will be undervalued because everyone is used to playing with baubles of true blood/skeleton keys on private servers. Such comps are not so good if you're prepared for them it also means good players aren't going to play those comps because they know people will use those items
@@MaXiMoS54 exactly what I think
I'm looking to play casual pvp in WOTLK (mainly solo bgs). I was leaning towards a melee class and was torn between Warrior and Ret Pally for my character boost but it seems like for solo pvp content, its preferable to go with a caster? Now I'm undecided between the both melee classes I already mentioned and SPriest/Ele shammy. If it's not asking too much, which would you recommend out of both melees, both casters and just one if you had to pick one?
for solo, you definitely don't wanna go warrior (especially arms) since it's a spec made for playing with a pocket healer, so ret would be way better in most instances, and both SP or Ele could work great, they both also have solid offhealing, great AoE, Ele does more AoE damage via Chain lightning straight up, while SP relies on DoTs so it's up to personal preference - what playstyle you like better
@@MEYTRIX I think I prefer the play style of a SPriest but apparently it falls off in Cata though? And priest has no other dps spec. What’s your opinion on Locks? They seems fun to play casually, good in bgs(?) and normally has at least one viable spec throughout each expansion/patch?
@@jac_91 yeah, lock would be a safer bet long-term if you only play a dps, SP is really nerfed in Cata, but super strong on WotLK...but lock is also pretty bad on Cata, only really viable in affliction spec in 3s and BGs, you have some solid comps for 2v2, but it's not such a good option
@@MEYTRIX I think I’ll probably go spriest. By the time that Cata is out, I’ll have more than enough time to level another character and blizzard will probably have another character boost available too. Thanks for the advice, appreciate it
@@jac_91 I’ve been playing SPRIEST and it’s a blast. I highly recommend it. Just be prepared to get facerolled in bgs by warriors, palis and dks in any bg other than AV. I’m hoping it’s just Prepatch but most bgs are majority those 3 classes. You can 1v1 them seperately but up against a Zerg you get chewed up in seconds. In arena though I was blasting literally any class with a good healer. So fun.
Arcane Mages C-tier? RIght. Considering you're speaking about multiple aspects of PvP.
I guess you haven't played much WoW then to know how insane bursty they are (can be). Yes they are *Very* squishy even having ice block and if a geared hunter see you, dead in two seconds. But to put the *best* caster for killing healers and put them in C-tier...lost for words really and btw no, I don't main Mage in Classic Wrath. I main Rogue accually.
Here is some friendly reality check when it comes to BGs (too many YT videos only focus on Arena): ua-cam.com/video/kle9_B3Mveg/v-deo.html
A montage video by a youtuber made in random BGs against players that have no gear and no idea how to play is definitely not a reality check, you can make any class look OP like that 😅 and any average pvper will know when the burst is coming and use either their defensive CDs on time or LoS, so arcane might be good for those casual RBGs, duels or low mmr arena, but there are way better specs imo
@@MEYTRIX In other words, focuson only on Arena as 95% of all YT content creators do, as I said. Well I won't stand it against you and enjoy your niche gameplay with the minority of super min/maxers and their elitist jerk mentality. I don't mind Arenas but it's 2022, don't need to prove anything this time around like you did back in 2009.
And calling rated bgs casual, well I stop there. Plus it's super fun and a good chucnk of the game as well. Sad part is too many only view pvp in WoW as endless E-sport/Arena.
I'm a 43yo gamer, played mmo's since 2001 (Daoc) and WoW since the betas 2005, with breaks ofc, so I think it's safe to say I do know a thing or two as well 😂
*EDIT:* I see you give your hearts to like 98% of your comments, well those who agree with you, classic (lmao).
If you really think Rbgs are just casual, then I would love to see how you manage a 15 vs 15 fight in ex AB. Show your "oh my so good 1 shot macros" in arenas. Well won't help much in a big fight. Yes it will help if you know your class but learning how to pillar hump 24/7 and win a 2vs2 or 3vs3 fight compared to winning a game (or know how to turn around a losing one) where it's 15 vs 15 skilled and geared people with good classes/setups. So I'll let you live your dream in arena that if you're good at that, you're a "pvp God" 🤣
Lastly, this "just a random guy making a youtube video with gear vs those with not" that many do accually but the point is, he's a quite known good pvp player in the community. Strangly enough he doesn't have too manhy subs, maybe not focusing on it too much, having a life or w/e. I could bet money that he would kick your hide easily regardless of class.
Leaving with these final words: Some people who is not brainwashed buy the UA-cam meta slave juice they try sell their copy/paste "experience" from others, know better ^^
Very good tier list only thing i would Change places is mm to S and Sp to strong A.
Assa is just good A tier combat is ok B tier .
Arcane is Strong B tier. Very bursty.
Overall very good pvp wrath tiet list. (The best tier list i ve ever seen)
Thanks for the feedback! I can imagine the bursty classes like arcane being especially better in nom rated or low mmr pvp where opponents underestimate their CDs, MM is usually strong, but sp is rarely as good as on WotLK, so I gave him extra points in comparison to Cata or TBC
Is this tier list in all phases of game?
it's an overall look at the past year of my experience on these servers, ofc you have servers like Warmane with a progressive Blackrock realm which changes over time - not only population-wise, but also in terms of the activity during the cycle and in different aspects of the game
rdru in Wotlk used to play in top comps, for example LSD
B tier
Boomkin was total shit
A tier
why?
And ofc muti-prep rogues. This spec was dominating in Wotlk, much stronger and easier to play than sub
Many specs that were good 13 years ago are gonna be countered way more easily with the knowledge we have nowadays, but you are right about r druids, I remember Season Glad was r druid on my server years ago, I could have put it in A, boomkin is especially good I’d say on lower mmrs where he can burst opponents down unexpectedly, but also has a high skill ceiling where you can do some insane plays with all the CC and offheals even high on the ladder
I’ve read that SP falls off throughout the xpac. I want to play it in retail but it feels so underwhelming.
casters are definitely better early on, since most melees scale with better gear - Shadowmournes, trinkets etc., but in reality - most people won't have the BiS PvE gear anyway, even when ICC comes out, it takes time to farm it, so I think you should be good with SP
Okay thanks so much for your reply man
man picking a class is so difficult for me. I've been leveling 3 different ones to see what clicks; warlock(23)/hunter(22)/rogue(10). Everybody ranks sub rogue S but my memory of playing rogue in wrath was really bad so I am very apprehensive about leveling it again. I get they *can* do a lot of burst damage, which can be hard to survive for some (cloth) classes however iirc they are essentially a glass canon that instantly shatters the moment anyone can attack them. I am also trying to make my picks so that I can play them well into cata too, but idk what to do.
Very true, rogue is a glass canon - if they catch you with no defs or trinket - you are dead…I might move rogues to A tier just because of how squishy they are outside of CDs, but they are extremely OP on Cata, especially the last season…as far as class picking, that’s rly personal, try looking at some videos of gameplay and see what u like the most
@@MEYTRIX Is that with or without the Legendary Daggers? From footage of cata I've seen so far rogues do about the same damage as they do in wrath. hitting for less than 10k normally meanwhile feral looks broken as fuck. 10k rip ticks, 40k Ferocious bites. just the damage alone from a feral not even accounting for their CC/defensives/self-healing is insane. Not sure what makes rogue so OP in cata.
@@boredgamer7841 ferals are broken, you are right, especially on early - on Vicious and Ruthless seasons...Rogues with legendaries and Bone Link trinkets - those trinkets alone proc for around 40k AoE dmg, and it procs pretty often
try warrior or shaman maybe
How is assassination rogue C tier? Sub is only good at the end of the expansion. I played envenom assassination rogue at 2400+ rating back in WOTLK. No one plays Sub the first couple of seasons.
good to know! I've never seen much of Assa rogues, but I have mostly played on WF season, thanks for your insights!
No one plays survival hunter but I feel like they are secretly broken n pvp, crazy cc and dots. Unbeatable in 1v1s
I would love to see someone come up with specs like survival, fury warrior, demo lock and so on, make them look viable and prove us wrong, that would be awesome, and I am sure there is some potential with few of those specs
Have you ever heard about hybrid prot ret Pala build? It's beyond S tier....
Ofc! I have a guide on it on my channel 😄 it’s great, but still struggles against casters (just like ret), and ofc does a but less dmg compared to ret, so I wouldn’t say it’s top OP, but it certainly deserves the S tier IMO
actually later into the expansion ppl will play aff over destro any day. the dmg and selfsustain is better than destro especially later into the xpac with more gear
destro still struggles with being tunneld and not being able to cast meanwhile
how you dont put feral into s-tier is a myth to me. Insane mobility, insane damage (early aswell as late into the xpac), good def aswell as insane cc
literally outperforms any other a-tier spec by a mile aswell some of the specs you put into s-tier
Thanks for your feedback! Destro doesn’t mind interrupts as much though, since he uses 2 schools of magic, eg. you get kicked on Fear, but you can still cast destro spells, feral is really good, might get in S-tier too, I am comparing it a lot to the Cata expansion where feral is totally insane, so it’s not as amazing on LK compared to that, but debatable, could have made it in S instead of the squishy rogues for instance
@@MEYTRIX well thank you for taking the time to engage into a dialouge:)
I know about destro having 2 spellschools but even with that their damage is easily avoidable. Once their pet dies twice(which isnt unusual) theyll have an even harder time. Dont get me wrong, they do insane dmg, but everyone knows it and no player over 1400 will stand there and let a lock freecast
As aff you have more tools to survive (Haunt/drainlife/Corruption heal etc.) aswell as enemies having like 0 chance to avoid your damage
Once we get into s7/8 aff will at least in 3s outperform destro by default like it was back then
just think with ferals dmg, their surviv with having SI now, aswell as intant heals/clones and maim being a real stun
i just think itd make sense to put them into s-tier
Very good points, I am always glad to see some other players’ perspective, and what you are saying makes perfect sense
Shouldn't that problem not be fixed by LSD? And why play affliction in arenas, when you can play shadowpriest?(disarm, dispersion, unremovable dmg mitigation with shadowform > Pet SL) The one is vastly nerfed, the other buffed against melees. Pretty sure you will face a ton of melees like its on retail. Warriors with 50% MS(its really still 50%? not 25% in pvp right?) you won't heal anything against that and TSG makes sure you are slowed by chains to 95% in the middle of the arena and 50% while at pillars by uhdks desecration and both warrior and dk are basicly immune to fears, so spamming fears isn't really viable.
How much better do you have to play to overcome all of this? Melees and their ms are hardcountering affliction. Destro lock at least can still burst one through absorbs with chaos bolt ifit ever gets off and dot will take too much time to work you won't survive that against any expierenced TSG or lets say i do not see many wins with that strategy when destro is so much better, just stay in sight of the elemental shaman and your healer thats quite enough, if they focus you as lock.
Think demo works quite well in arenas.
ua-cam.com/video/3KSGr00iVR0/v-deo.html - notice how long the stun lasted on demo meta while hellfire was doing the job, not exactly high rated arena, tbh, tho, its easy to avoid by running until meta is off.
ua-cam.com/video/UHS5Hp2u298/v-deo.html - demo can do much dmg, while tanky, too and seems to be a great pic 2s in early stages of the game.
If anything demo is very underrated in most Tier lists i saw, so far.
I remember how squishy affliction and destro was in original wotlk in s5 and how hard TSG countered it. I would suggest to play something else as a class if you wanna do arenas early, but demo seems quite viable and fun, until high rated.
@@zeusapollo6504 good thinking, but talking about demo - those videos were shot against people obviously new to arena, nobody plays so bad in a comp that has never been viable
Awesome vid thanks
Thank you
What is better and more fun for play warr or mage for pvp?:D
they are both super-fun to me, especially on WotLK, it's just different kind of fun...but I prefer warrior since mages are always OP at least in 1 spec, while warriors sometimes suck on other expansions - and you can play arms or prot in pvp on WotLK
Warr is only good to play if you have a holy paladin babysitting you, if not you're basically a sitting duck and it loses to most melee classes 1v1
@@MaXiMoS54 true, I am comparing it to Cataclysm warrior a lot, where it rly sux in 1v1, so even WotLK warrior is a good upgrade compared to that
Bm hunters are super fun and easy to play, I was able to reach 1850+ in starter gear with a same geared enh shaman. /blackrock s8 and this was in last week/
cool, I've never played BM on wotlk, but it is usually the easier spec to play, so you just confirmed it to me
sub rogue in wotlk should be around B tier. Super squishy in 3v3, doesnt excel in 1v1 anymore, only viable in 2v2.
Actually true, it is super squishy, especially if caught in a stun or with no defs ready
No D rank? You could've segmented classes more by utilizing it :/
Nah, if I take so much into consideration, it’s really hard, cause where do you put a class that owns in arena but sucks in world pvp or duels…I might go deeper in a ranking where I specifically judge the classes only in 1 pvp bracket in the future
Well that sounds good :) more videos from you :D
We can really see that you are experienced about wotlk pvp so we appreciate your opinion
He kept D rank in his pants
@@Swagful777 😏😏
Retri is trash. Its true they have great dps and burst but they are too easily countered to be useful
you are about to be eat your words when you see some of my upcoming ret pvp videos 😏
@@MEYTRIX don´t get me wrong, I´m a pretty high rated player on my paladin that I´ve had since vanilla classic. And yes, you can delete scrubs no doubt. But if you face off against a somewhat good player, you´re gonna get countered. Wings, HoF, sac, buffs.. it can all be easily dispelled or stolen from a dps class who´s primary dmg is derived by amazing buffs.
It´s because of that reason I dlslike retri paladins in pvp, you´re top tier among sheep but the small dog among the wolves pretty much. I look forward to you proving me wrong on this one :)! I will wear critical glasses when watching the video though ;)
@@oJackOfSpades haha, good points, I always make sure to be rebuffing and even using trash buffs to make it harder for enemies to dispel, don't forget you have some talents that make it less likely to get dispeled and also - each dispel press takes a GCD away from your opponent, so it's not without a cost!
@@MEYTRIX Agreed. As opposed to earlier expansions where you could potentially trick people by applying lower rank buffs at a low mana cost and win by attrition, this is no longer avaible. Hence why I feel like paladins are so vulnerable against casters with dispells.
Like you said you can fill up your buff bar with a bunch of nasty, misc buffs just to make it harder for the caster, however I find that you normally get dispelled while in a CC anyway as a setup rather than as an offensive strat during the culmination of setup/kill. Anyway looking forward to that video!
about to own some soy priests
You forgot to comment on a bear.
oh fkin bear feral is the most bulky thing in the game - defend a base in a BG forever with that bs spec!
Im agree almost with every spec except Assa, sub is way better but i think assa is B-A Tier
Can go high with ret, sp, disc, enh, resto(sham) and ele in 2s
In 3s at the moment on warmane its the spec with the best rating form rogues
Btw im finally 2k warmane player :D
Eeey, congrats! 😎 rogue, especially assa and combat, is something I wanna get into more on WotLK for sure, thanks for your insights!
kinda agree with your list except ret
ret is da godx and I will prove it to everyone once WC comes out! 😏
What counters unholy death knights in wotlk?
Hunter, ret and preg, maybe warrior
@@MEYTRIX Nah, those classes have no chance against unholy dk but ret pala is gonna take 20 mins of 1v1 to beat.
Unbeatable for unholy dk is shadow priest, Frost mage, aff warlock and maybe destro lock
@@Zeralop lock would get smoked just by popping the gargoyle alone, unless ofc the lock is able to LoS like crazy etc, but then even the aforementioned hunter can just shoot max range and be untouchable
@@MEYTRIX You don't need too much Los, and I'm talking 1v1 in normal circumstances, like arena, or in front of orgrimmar.
Also, I forgot to mention another spec, elemental shaman. You can't beat him cuz he can outheal your dmg in melee range. He will never oom and he can kill you when ur cds are. Down, but its gonna take 20 mins or so.
@@MEYTRIX and affliction warlock can kill you in melee range aswell. He will heal too much, use void walker for shield and deal too much dmg to outheal it.
Marksman - S tier. Max skilled MM is a monster. it just scales very high with skill (like rogue).
Protwarr - S tier. You havent heard of the full arp crit oneshots and mass spell reflect ? in full icc/rs pve gear this is one of the most insane specs in the game. Oneshots hard and has tons of stuns and silences. pure carnage with 0-500resilience.
Fire - A tier, needs gear and can wreck melee and caster alike. kinda random, but very strong esp in 3v3.
Arcane - A tier. Really good with a rogue for oneshots. Its weaker than the other two mage specs but it is better than Moonkin for sure.
Assassin - A tier, very strong vs plate esp with a SP or DIsc. thats all, just tunnel warriors and palas and win.
BM - A tier, its quite strong spec, especially the 50/21 (readines) with wolf/ravager works wonders.
Survival - A tier with pala or priest imo. feels quite strong
Prot pala - A tier. With Rsham it has a really solid comp that can give hard time to warr/pala and has good matchups vs pretty much anything that isnt mage/priest.
Frost DK - A tier. super good with hpala in 2s. can setup almost 100% guaranteed kills with hungering cold+hoj combos.
Rdruid and Rsham - both A tier. no healer is under A tier in wotlk. Both are really good healers for warlock in 2s and 3s .
Demon - B tier. its all about paladin and turnevil. its very hard counter and pala is meta. otherwise it really wrecks melee and the burst is quite insane if u can land a full immolation aura ontop of people its GG.
Moonkin - B tier. Its too squishy without many def cds. it can dish out insane dmg in BGs but in arena its just very hard to deal with all the melees on steroids and one mistake can cost you alot.
Fury warr and Holy priest are C tier.
that is ofcourse s8 with access to icc and rs pve gear. some of these specs are worse in earlier seasons (like prot warr,fire mage) but some are better (BM hunt, ENH sham)
that's the thing - comparing specs across all seasons with different gear available + including all kinds of PvP, it's kinda hard to be fair to everyone...but thanks a lot for your input, I gotta get you for a future video! :D
Can't wait for Destro.
WotLK destro will destroy some pu***
H Pala and a war were so broken🤦
Crazy broken
Im a newbie at wow but this doesnt seem logic to me. 90% of players in wotlk private servers are warrior/paladin/dk and i usually see them top rankings... The combo arms warrior/holy paladin destroys rule arena.. I find it difficult to place them same tier with all the other classes u mentioned... Ofc u say pvp generally and not only arenas but still....
It is also mostly arms+holy on Wrathful season, it’s not as impressive early on
@@MEYTRIX i see. i dont really know. As i told im newbie. I just say what i saw on servers i tried. Its nice i see u respond to comments.
@@gtopsiss sure, I like to discuss with other ppl too and hear your guys' experiences and opinions 😎
@@MEYTRIX is h pal dk still s tier early wrath ? I’m scared to play them and easily get discouraged
@@goldenmemes51 I would say it's one of the top comps, idk if S or A tier since there are so many viable comps out there, but definitely a solid choice
Hey , aiming to tryhard 2s/3s at launch WOTLK , what would you advice between Arms or UH DK or Feral from ur knowledge and experience ? ( I do not have any play style , 2.8 LS exp on retail aiming to tryhard ladder in 2s then in 3s on WOTLK S5 )
out of these 3, I would probably give the edge to DK - it has many comps it can run in 2s (with healers, ret/preg, shadow priest) and in 3s (TSG, SP, Affli) so even if you are unsure who you'll be playing with, you should have no big issues looking for arena partners, and DK is overall really solid in any pvp situation...but arms and feral are really good too, you wouldn't go wrong picking one of them either
Fury and Blood belong in D tier
There were already some ppl in the comments that would disagree about Blood 👀
Prot pal S 👌
With R Sham only though! And lacks the insane flash of light offhealing 😣
please do a pve list :D
I would need help of a seasoned pve veteran for that 🤔
Mage frost without hast and mana regen saison 5 6 is very bad , every heal should be top A only Hpal top s
interesting, I still saw frost mages owning in 2v2 in early WotLK on private servers, but that's just my experience
cmon give some respect to prot warrior revenge proc can easily oneshot is it just my opinion?
revenge hits like crazy, but you will have to fight melees to proc it
Ya pretty rough against casters like no chance lol
btw love youre vids man can u make a guide to unholy dk please
@@lalramchhani4157 thank youuuu ☺ Unholy DK was next on my list to make a PvP guide on, but idk, it's soooo time consuming 😔
Yea i feel u man if u do make ill make a fresh unholy dk based on. Ur guide big. Fan here :)
Pls give me the lien for download server lichking😁
Just go to whatever server’s website you wanna play on, they all have their download links
I will play WoW in 6months :)))
why wait for so long?
PvP Tierlist 2vs2! not good for a duel!
pvp destro and demonology for me
affli is just a boring playstyle still very good
Aff is boring, you are right, but I really miss some special ability on Demo, feels strange not even having Hand of Guldan 😞
Bis pve gear arcane can one shoot in opener
With 1 arcane blast?
Ret higher than Unholy DK? Maybe in ur dreams lol
any day!
Bro do you even know the game ? :D lol
What you mean Assasination rogue nobody plays at PvP :D hahahah
and the shaman have wind sear which is 5 sec cd and its ultimate.
I have met some some assa rogues since, thanks for your respectfully written comment with constructive criticism and your experiences :)