[REAL ATC] MD-80 DELTA CRASH at La Guardia Airport
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2015
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Radio frequencies of TWR and GND facilities. March the 5th involving a Delta MD-80 aircraft running out of runway 13 at La Guardia Airport. No one suffered severe injueries.
La Guardia airport got closed instantly since a ground vehicle reported the situation. Planes getting ready to depart were hold on their positions and planes arriving were deviated to nearby airports.
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Anyone else on a marathon of these videos?
Boy do i binge watch that stuff for days now :D
Yup this and infinite flight on my phone lol
Erik Walker i clearly have no life. I’ve been watching for days.
I’m addicted. I so need therapy! 😏
Just can’t stop!
The short version is that the Captain applied reverse thrust before the nose wheel touched down. The left engine initially went into full reverse faster than the right engine, causing the aircraft to start veering left (no nose wheel steering to counteract this with the nose still in the air). The Captain also applied much more reverse thrust than recommended, reaching an EPR of roughly 2.0 on a landing where a target reverse thrust of 1.3 EPR is the recommended value. The aircraft also experienced "rudder blanking" due to the excessive EPR, which caused the rudder to have reduced effect.
During the landing the First Officer can be heard on the CVR saying: "out of reverse", "come out of reverse", "*come out of reverse*!". The FO stated that he suspected rudder blanking.
Source on that? Would be interested to see it. Cheers!
Is everybody died?
@Graxster
Good info, thank you.
@Zena Puma
There were no fatalities.
24 people suffered minor injuries.
I'm a complete amateur, but I love aircraft. Love to fly, TSA not so much, lol. I would love to be an observer at MCO. Is that possible?
Car 100 did a hell of a job instantly recognizing the situation and communicating the urgency of it
Ive watched about four of these and can officially add atc to list of jobs I don’t ever wanna do
Every one I watch makes me regret not going after aviation. I'd even be happy in ATC.
@@bbbbbbb51 As someone on a binge of these videos considering getting into aviation... to quote the great Leonardo DiCaprio... I concur!
To the people saying the ATC was "flustered," the reason he keeps asking people to repeat is because there was a lot of fog and he could not visually see what happened. He did a good job handling the situation.
I was wondering about that. It was obvious that he couldn't see it.
That explains why he didn't close it himself
@Skytivity does the ATC voice sound like the ATC who talked to Sully?
@@fastkarr8256 Absolutely not.
@@sludge4125 did to me, sludge. Maybe it’s just the NY accent.
4979 : Tower ? Is the airport closed ?
Twr : Stand by
4979 : Pretty sure I've my answer now
Literally everything goes wrong at LaGuardia
Yeah, remember the water main break there that kept one terminal down for a few days. I think that was last fall. I was forced to fly through there on a connection last winter, and just knew I was gonna have to take the f'g shuttle in freezing cold weather. Then you have to walk up a steep flight of stairs to get to the next terminal. I know it was built during the prop plane days, but this is the largest metro city in the US. No excuse for the cluster that is La Guardia, and I place a lot of blame on unions for the mess.
@@yaimavol haha, yep. Funny story, our crew room wifi went down and it was going to take the njny port authorities 2 months to get union IT guys out to fix it. We climbed through the ceiling and reset the router ourselves.
Just for some context, the Pilot-in-Charge basically drew the reverse thrusters back too far and too early, meaning they lost control of the rudder (along with icy conditions) causing them to skid off uncontrollably
I have never heard of to far on the thrust reverses, on the 80 they are open or closed…
@@mwash5779 the MD-80 has bucket reversers mounted on the tail.
From what I read, it seems that there is an EPR (engine pressure ratio) limitation on the amount of reverse thrust that can be used on a contaminated runway.
This is most applicable to aircraft with tail-mounted engines since the use of more reverse thrust would cause more of an airflow disturbance upstream of the rudder; making the rudder way less effective.
And of course, a contaminated runway is when the rudder is needed the most to maintain center-line since the braking action/nose wheel steering is diminished.
@@mwash5779 TR's were activated before the nose wheel touched down, the left engine initially went into full reverse faster than the right engine, causing the aircraft to start veering left (no nose wheel steering to counteract this with the nose still in the air). The Captain also applied much more reverse thrust than recommended, reaching an EPR of roughly 2.0 on a landing where a target reverse thrust of 1.3 EPR is the recommended value. The aircraft also experienced "rudder blanking" due to the excessive EPR, which caused the rudder to have reduced effect.
They got into action as soon as they knew what happened. I don't know why people are giving them a hard time. They didn't know what had happened at first and they didn't want to assume the worst because everything was ok just a second ago. I think we can all agree when I say this could have been a lot worse and it's not like ATC just left them out there and told them hate to be you right now.
Delta Air Lines Flight 1086 was a scheduled Delta Air Lines domestic passenger flight between Atlanta and New York's LaGuardia Airport. On March 5, 2015, the McDonnell Douglas MD-88 (not MD-80) aircraft veered off the runway shortly after landing at LaGuardia Airport in New York City. The plane ran up the seawall berm and struck the perimeter fence, sliding along it for approximately 940 feet (290 m) before coming to rest with the nose of the aircraft hanging over the berm above Flushing Bay. There were no fatalities, although 24 people suffered minor injuries. The aircraft was seriously damaged. The final report by the NTSB found the probable cause of the accident was the pilot's "inability to maintain directional control of the airplane due to his application of excessive reverse thrust, which degraded the effectiveness of the rudder in controlling the airplane’s heading."
I’m amazed that major airports don’t have live video feeds along the runways so tower oper. can actually see what is happening on the runways at all times.
Generally the tower controllers at major airports don't need video feeds because they have large windows that they can look out and observe the runways directly.
@@NathanGracie-Raitt didn't work in this case.
Actually watching and understanding the video (particularly the reports of RVR and braking conditions) would quickly reveal that the conditions at La Guardia that day were clearly hard IMC. If they're reporting braking action they've either got heavy rain or, more likely for the time of year in New York, snow. If they're reporting RVR then visibility is already guaranteed less than a mile, and given the two RVRs were different by 2000 ft it was probably rapidly changing just over the length of the runway.
Of course the Tower controller would be able to see if the weather is good. That's why the tower controllers have glass windows and aren't put in a bunker. This guy obviously couldn't, and was relying on pilot reports to tell whether aircraft successfully vacated. Cameras, for the exact same reasons, probably wouldn't help much either.
@@juliocamacho8354 - The visibility that day was only 4,500 feet. That's why the LaGuardia tower couldn't see what happened to the plane. You do realize that video cameras also can't see through fog, right?
@@puma.will.pounce7590 Kinda depends on the camera doesn't it :)
The firefighter commander ordered the airport closed twice and still the ATC does not get it. That guy has difficulty with sudden changes in his environment. That is pretty serious when you want to be an ATC.
Agreed
Just seemed, yeah reluctant to make such a big move. But the reality is, you can't be taking off and landing planes when your emergency crews are already in use.
Yes, he was over his head quick and it didn't sound like any supers were stepping up to take control. I avoid La Guardia at all costs. Worst airport in the US.
I'm not familiar with La Guardia but as an ATC I can tell you that we can have a lot of trouble receiving communications from ground vehicles. If the diesel engine's running, the vehicle's moving, and the guy(s) driving it have a window open it can be the next thing to impossible. Even at full noise, e.g. take-off, a cockpit is a relatively quiet environment so transmissions come through much more cleanly. Ground vehicles not so much.
That being said, I'm not familiar with this airport or this particular situation. All I'm saying is sometimes it can be hard to hear transmissions from ground vehicles.
I'm no expert. Just my opinion. I thought the chaotic radio chatter threw ATC off his game. Not that he wasn't up to the task.
Not a complaint, just an observation... the firefighter in me just couldn't let it go... it is NOT Tug1 that is talking to the tower... it is TRUCK 1... as in fire department truck. Very likely from the LaGuardia crash crew. Just thought I would point that out. Otherwise an awesome capture of a real event in real time.
Yeah, most of this guys captions are wrongo.... :P
Thanks for the correction. That was bugging me as well.
atcdude067 - you’re more than welcome to whine somewhere else if you’re not happy here.
moponi - Lol!! The irony!
I did not get it before I found this comment. Thanks.
So, now it makes sense: "Truck1 and company" is probably a number of fire vehicles. But "Tug1 and company" did not make much sense - why should a group of tugs go to the scene of the accident?
In the early 2010s I worked a job at my local major airport, we took lunch every day at 12, and I can remember hearing Delta 1999 cleared for takeoff every day.
Airline crews are some impressive people, whether they’re working in the cockpit or the cabins. But the airport ground crews and ATCs are no less impressive. All of these incredibly complex systems involved in commercial flight-and each component of those systems are also complex systems, among them human beings-and this is going on across the world 24/7. Given all of this, it’s still a remarkably safe way to travel, far, far safer than the drive you have to take to _get_ to the airport. Thank you to all those involved. You’re the anonymous heroes who save people and planes every day by simply doing your jobs well.
Can we all also understand that this incident is used for teaching A LOT.
There was a slow evacuation, pilot error on landing, Slow response by emergency, and many communication failures.
While everyone did their best, this made it a lot safer
Always amazed how it goes to chaos immediately between ground and tower units like they don't believe what each other is seeing/saying.
The aircraft touched down at 11:02 am with the main landing gear close to the runway centerline. The MD-88 veered off the left side of the runway shortly after touchdown, about 3,000 feet (910 m) from the approach end of the runway, on a heading approximately 10 degrees left of the runway heading. The MD-88 skidded left across the snowy airfield until about 4,100 feet (1,200 m) from the approach end of the runway, when the aircraft ran up the berm and the left wing struck the airport perimeter fence. It then was forced back onto a heading parallel with runway 13, and continued sliding in this direction for another 900 feet (270 m) along the perimeter fence, before coming to rest about 5,000 feet (1,500 m) from the approach end of runway 13, with the nose of the aircraft hanging over the berm. The left wing of the aircraft destroyed approximately 940 feet (290 m) of airport perimeter fence. The aircraft sustained significant structural damage. There was major damage to the left wing's leading edge, leading edge slats, trailing edge flaps, and spoilers. The left wing fuel tank was breached near the outboard end of the outboard flaps. The front radome and weather radar were heavily damaged, and damage to the underside of the fuselage extended from the front of the aircraft all the way back to the left front passenger door. The nose landing gear well and the main electronics bay also were damaged. Delta subsequently declared the aircraft a hull loss, making the accident the 37th hull loss of a McDonnell Douglas MD-80.
did poeple die?
@@pepega5560 No
You can hear a guy say "Holy shit" very faintly at 3:15 when they see the crash.
Superb catch.
I almost like the ATC transcripts in real time versus how they're edited now. The time in between calls adds to the suspense.
What a confused airport.
R.C. Collins u should see Newark it’s a whole diffrent planet
Doesn’t make them look good at all does it. Are they not trained for emergencies?
You don't even know the half of it.
Are the sight lines that bad there? Tower couldn’t see the aircraft off the runway themselves?
@@Briggie if you listened closely, one plane needed to get de-iced again. NJ/NY area can have some pretty bad snow storms that can really mess with visibility.
Just a note - "TUG -1" is actually TRUCK - 1 - not from crash rescue Afct push tugs are either for regular acft (TUF) or heavy acft (Super Tug). Once out of the gate/alleyway they mmmove with the permission of GND control
CDDAR. 😎
It's not a tugboat? That's just awful.
Robb Hodges Lol I wondered wtf is an aircraft tug doing there...
This channel gets nearly every transcription wrong from the recordings. It's very frustrating to see so may words misheard. "He seems to go to 13" is "Red Team go to 13"
Only know of Vegas: ua-cam.com/video/Jv1kmuFOhWk/v-deo.html
Horror movie stuff.
Love how you show the airport so we can actually see what’s happening
Car 100 seems to be the only one with a handle on the situation, ATC flustered
Absolutely!
ATC not as professional as others.
It sounds like he couldn't see the runway, fog or some such. Was giving advice to landing aircraft on previous landed aircraft.
Would have been relying on his radar screen.
Delta 1086 would have appeared to have stopped on the runway from his perspective, while he's cleared the other Delta (1999?) in.
Not sure how the ground car knew there was a problem before him though
The ATCS reported rollout RVR of 3500- meaning the accident location ( if the location in the video is correct) was not visible from the tower. It’s also worth noting the RVR is about 15’ off the ground- visibility from the tower to surface is often worse.
I’d say there’s a lot going on in the tower at that time wouldn’t call him unprofessional
You really do a great job on these, and I enjoy your channel.
+Eric Francis Thank you very much Eric! I really appreciate your words. That's exactly why I do this. Not only entertainment but also learning something else about aviation :D
Nice video! I like the way you annotate the chart in real time so we can see what is going on during the communications.
Great to see you back. Beautiful night footage!
new favorite channel
+okkcomputer Thank you!!!
Ur a moron!
okkcompute
@@Swindy1794 Porsche 987, Tower, request to change your callsign in order to call anyone a moron
Really like this channel. I want to be an air traffic controller when I'm older and love to listen to the communication between the pilot and air traffic controller especially in these situations.
Good luck to you on following your dream of becoming an air traffic controller. Keep working hard in school, be responsible in college and maybe even take some flight lessons. The career of an air traffic controller is very rewarding financially, you will earn your pay, that's for sure. It's also a career where good, hard working individuals have job security:)
Hi there, just wanted to check in on you really quick. Are you still into aviation and ATC trying to follow your dreams? :-)
We live in very strange times with covid and stuff. I sincerely hope you're doing well. Keep following your dreams, wish you all the best!
Hey Dylan did you ever become an air traffic controller?
Cause of the accident was the pilot's "inability to maintain directional control of the airplane due to his application of excessive reverse thrust, which degraded the effectiveness of the rudder in controlling the airplane’s heading.
But if it was already on the ground and slowing, the rudder wouldn't have any effectiveness at slower speeds. Was maybe one of the engines thrusting harder than the other and it forced the plane to yaw?
@@EVAUnit4A giggity
@@EVAUnit4A due to his application of excessive reverse thrust, which DEGRADED the effectiveness of the rudder
@@blackhatter011
I didn't read the official report on the accident, so I'm assuming the thrust on one engine didn't drop below the other, the steering wheel didn't suddenly shift, or there wasn't an unexpected crosswind.
So it’s basically pilot error?
I've listened to an awful lot of these and there is way too much confusion for such a major airport. Controller is lost.
LaGuardia in a nutshell
I have to agree how a md80 runs off runway into embankment and no one noticed for that long is confusing. Is the tower not able to see that part of runway?
Tim Howard conditions were extremely low visibility with a low ceiling that day, meaning the tower could not see clearly, which is why car 100 on the ground team often are their eyes during high traffic & inclement weather
@@timhoward7852 Tim, the RVR was reported as 4500 feet. Notice where the Tower is located, and their distance from the crash site. Also, the Tower is 240 feet above the ground, making the slant-range visibility even more difficult to see the airplane.
Just based on what you're hearing isn't everything that happened in the world of that Tower controller at the time. They know a lot more than you think they do, regardless of how it sounds. Also, @WeedWhacker2010 and @Zac Young were correct that it takes time to notice, and that visual check of a landing aircraft may not have been a priority at the time, as spotting crashed aircraft is not the primary function of a Tower Controller.
Also, you need to understand all that the Tower Controller was telling approaching/departing aircraft. It would give you clues as to whether or not the Tower could even see the event.
Tower Controller and Ground Controllers perform different functions. In this clip, we hear both Tower Traffic and Ground Traffic. There are multiple ways for you to communicate with each of those controllers to pass necessary information. Just because information was passed doesn't mean that you'll hear it on frequency. Most of that information will be kept off frequency, specifically so that "Tower" and "Ground" can direct traffic. Directing traffic is their primary function.
The frequencies you're hearing are specifically to direct traffic, not pass other information not relevant to direction of traffic on airport taxiways ("Ground"), or direct approaching air traffic or holding departing traffict ("Tower").
Give ATC a break. They have a more difficult job than you think. After you've walked a mile in their shoes, maybe then people can lay credence to your comment.
was an MD-88, but great channel, I just discovered this. Subbed.
Here comes the youtube comment section that has worked as ATC for 40+ years, knows this airport in and out, is well versed in every situation possible and knows regulations that they can site it in their sleep.
You might be surprised
so people involved in avaiation dont watch youtube videos! that be a dissapointment to this channel and the hundreds of others on here
Nallid best comment of the week right here... haha
Keyboard Man
@Rata 4U Consider it from another perspective. Car 100's driver spots a crashed airliner off the runway, gets a shocked look, and blurts out an emphatic "Runway 13 is CLOSED!!" As in, there's major shit happening here, everybody STOP! Due to the poor audio quality and the chaotic nature of the event, ATC doesn't get the urgency of the statement. "Runway 13 is closed?" As in, he doesn't get it. A bit later, he doesn't get it again. "Runway 13 is closed?" ATC seemed rather slow on the uptake to me during this incident. He had plenty of indications that an airport-closing event was afoot. "Delta 1086 . . . Delta 1086 . . . Delta 1086 . . . " Helllooooo! Anybody home?
Why does the guy in the tower sound like he just can't believe what he heard and has to ask for a repeat of everything told to him?
No, he simply did Not copy what car 100 said. Communication on ground is often very interrupted.
To ensure accuracy between transmissions. The Tenerife disaster is an example of why that is necessary.
also, can't he see from the tower? la guardia has such a small land area you can easily see the whole airport from the tower.
@@Lucas-pe6fg If the map in the video is correct, the terminal is between the tower and the crash site. Probably obstructed sightlines.
@@johnpalmer3848 been to LGA many times. it is a tiny (landwise) airport and the tower is VERY tall
Subscribed. Great animations!
The tower didn't pass on to the other aircraft that the airport was closed. You would think he would do that. He had no contact with the crashed aircraft and was not aware or did not investigate what happened to it. The car on the ground was the one closing runways and informing of the crash. The tower guy seemed a bit lost.
The car on the ground does not get to make the call as to whether or not the airport is closed. He can advise, but that call is made in the tower. And it had not been made.
We probably don't have all parts of the communications, at about 8:09 tower confirms to ASQ4979 that the airpport is closed.
@@laceybarkley5739 Cars are normally numbered in order of importance. Car 1 is likely gonna be the airport manager/boss, head of ops, or like the fire chief or some other very important high up position who likely does have the authority to close the airport. He didn't ask the tower. He told the tower. This would indicate he's got the power to do so. Different airports work differently.
oyvey you vote for trump by any chance?
@@proto12qs I wish I was an American to vote for trump
This entire audio is an exercise in how NOT to handle an emergency situation. No one is communicating anything meaningful and mass confusion reigns.
@Brandon BP No one got injured though?
@Brandon BP Who were they?
@@junkonakamura3441 There were no deaths or significant injuries.
What do you expect from this airport?
@Brandon BP 132 souls, 24 minor injuries, 0 deaths. where did you get that from?
OMG! God bless these dedicated professionals on the ground who serve in the interest of the safety of the flying public.
For EVERYONE complaining about the captions. 1. The uploader doesn't have to put them there. He did a lot of work. He could leave you to the joys of UA-cam's auto-caption. Show a little appreciation. 2. You understood what was being said? Yes? So what's your problem? 3. Suppose for a moment the uploader isn't a native English speaker. Ask yourselves how well you could caption garbled radio traffic in another language?
Thanks for your support!
09:12 reads "Tug1 - He was talked 13 but we don't [...]" - i believe this might be... "We were told 13, but we don't see anything down there" - Great channel keep it up!
yeah, more of his captions are wrong than right.
atcdude067 youre so cool dude
Explosive Mayhem thanks, you must be like 6?
atcdude067 five, actually. You get a gold star for effort
thanks! :)
There must have been heavy fog as it was obvious there was a lot of confusion at first given the time it took for everyone to figure out what happened, particularly Tower.
Tower could not see the incident.
Its Truck 1 not Tug 1, I guess its the airport Fire Chief..
Great Videos.
Fantastic channel!
'um bank rim' was how you heard "embankment?
English is not his first language, give him a break
@@MrQuestionyourself How do you turn annotations on?
Some times I like to pause the video to uncover what you thought they said, and laugh at what you hear sometimes. ;-P Great work man, keep it up.
it's actually kind ridiculous how bad this dude is at making these...
quigly pigly And laugh at what he heard? Maybe English isn’t his first language. Try and listen to this type of conversation in a foreign language and see how “perfect” you are :)
Car100 is the hero we needed.
nope lol. poor communication
Is VAS another Kennedy Steve? I recognize that guy's voice. No nonsense get it done type. Love it.
The plane wasn't evacuated for more than 17 minutes after the crash even though firefighters told the crew that there was a fuel leak
It did look pretty darn cold outside....
The thing with emergencies is they are clusters from the moment it goes south. Now 17 minutes is plenty of time to get out.
Tower likely couldn't reach them because normally VHF1 antenna is on the belly of the plane. So once they went off it's in the mud.
Unless there was a puddle of fuel where the exit slide would have been. In such a case I guess it would have been safer to let firefighters prepare for a safe passenger exit procedure first.
Usually they blast the plane with anti-inflammatory foam if there's even a drop of fuel leaking before they'll let passengers off. Then they'd have to get passenger buses in place because as I understand this was NYC in the winter during bad conditions. Too cold to have everyone waiting outside.
ikr i fell for it too
At 9:13 Truck 1 said "We were told 13 but we didn't see anything down there."
It was pro visibility and the plane was landing on 13 so he could not see to the end of the rwy most likely.
At the time he says that he's almost at the threshold of 13. The plane was nearly at the end of 13 and the tower couldn't see it, so I'm assuming the visibility was poor and he just couldn't see it from that distance
In all of my time paying attention to aviation, I don't recall the last time Runway 13 was used as the landing runway at LGA. In other words, does Runway 4 at LaGuardia not have an ILS system? (Normally with winds from the east, Runway 4 would be the arrival runway and Runway 13 would be the departure runway, rather than the reverse.)
I get anxious just thinking about flying commercially. I love watching these though. thanks for putting these together!!
Thanks. Very interesting
A couple of transcription comments:
1:07, "Wind Check" is almost certainly not DAL2319. Voice sounds much more like DAL1086 (on approach)
3:08, LGA Tower says "Number 1 for the field." (not "it's you")
3:12 "Braking action reported good..."
4:37 I believe car 100 says "Tower... Red Team to go onto 13"
5:40 "Delta 1999 I'll have the uh... climb instructions.. correction, the go around instructions for you, just a moment."
8:23 "I will have further for you shortly."
Tug 1 should be "Truck 1" everywhere
8:45 - 8:55 (2 calls) "Truck 1 and company..."
there are other errors in the Truck 1/Ground interactions...
9:24 "...on the embankment" (not "on the uh, bank rim.")
svyt Thank you very much, friend! :)
svyt Also at 07:45 - "...we *understand* the airport is closed"
+VASAviation - How come did they take so long to start the evacuation?
@@biarosini2579 There were good reasons. It was not negligence.
Great video as always but correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds more like "Truck 1" as opposed to "Tug 1".
+Timothy Hickey You're not the first that comment that. He definitely says TRUCK 1 :D
+Timothy Hickey Truck 1 is a fire truck...
I like how car 100 takes over by force going from the ground control to the head of the airport in seconds.
I’m new to these videos - very interesting but I have one question. The ones I’ve watched seem to be a lack of information to hand for example phone numbers / contacts/ flying school details / certain procedures seem a bit uncertain or unclear? Is this normal? On the other hand everyone seems extremely calm and professional during most incidents. Organised chaos?
Im hearing "Truck 1" as in ladder truck one...
I'm guessing no ASDE at the airport but thats crazy how if it wasn't for ground vehicles the tower didn't know what happened, and where's the communication between local and ground control? I can't say I have any idea about emergency procedures at LGA but it seemed sloppy the response.. but then again it was extremely bad weather so....
I assume just low vis, made it so he couldn't see the plane. I'm surprised no planes on the ground relayed the information though as im sure there were planes taxiing that saw it.
All the departures were taxiing from the terminal to RY04. Departing aircraft would have never been near the runway excursion, nor would they have even faced it. The previous arriving aircraft is not in this video, so it's safe to assume he was already clear of the area as well. So there's no one to see it.
As for where the communication between local and ground are, that's not happening on the radio, so the ATC feed that recorded this could not have heard it. Likewise any communication between the tower (any position) and the airport operations or emergency services.
Mr_ATC it was really bad weather and vis was very low they couldn’t see anything
As I read in a comment here, why did the left side reverse thrust take effect more quickly than the right? Was that pilot or design flaw? (granted that reverse thrust was applied too early and too much) Just wondering about the apparent imbalance
Love your channel! Perhaps a stupid question... why do the trucks tell the tower that the runway/airport is closed, instead of "we need to close the runway/airport" -- because it is not in effect closed until the tower stops clearing for arrivals and departures? Thanks!
+Tanya J Hello Tanya! Thanks for the comments. Those trucks are Airport Authorities or Airport Operations and have even more authority than the Control Tower. So, if they want to close the airport, Tower has to.
I honestly believe CAR100 could have been more clear from the very beginning. By stating "13 is closed" that does not give enough information to the tower. If CAR100 started with, "Tower, CAR100, There is an aircraft off of runway 13, we need fire rescue, runway is closed" Tower would have got it immediately.
+uscgswimmer1 He is giving the critical piece of information telling the tower controller to stop all landings and take-offs. Emergency vehicles will be crossing both runways and of course the arrival runway is blocked. Ground control manages traffic on the ground.
+uscgswimmer1 The priority is to stop it happening to another aircraft then roll firetrucks.
Agree, this is an atrocious display of emergency call etiquette. Totally out of control, no comms, no detail,, no direction, no control totally an example of what not to do
Also of transcription
Idk why I watch these cause when I have to travel by plane this is all I think about 😩
This could use some more accurate subtitles of the audio. A lot of errors in it, but its still excellent.
7:46 is "We understand the airport is closed", not "we are [...] the airport is closed"
How long did they take to react?! OMG
The guy identified in the captions as "TUG1" is actually saying "Truck 1" the call sign for the lead crash equipment at LGA.
I know this is an older video, but I miss the little graphics showing where all of the emergency vehicles are located on the field.
To me it seems odd that they dont have SOP's for declaring field emergencies at La Guardia. When the BA 777 crashed at the end of the runway at heathrow, the controller running tower declared an emergency and had a very specific call out of the details, location and gave emergency vehicles instructions. It took the car dude like 5 goes to get to the part where he said they'd crashed. Seems like time lost and risky to other aircraft.
Pretty crazy that tower isn't able to see both runways, including the crashed plane. I would have expected tower to take control of the situation, but tower did almost nothing. :O
The visibility was so low that tower couldnt see the runways from where they are at.
Airport is operated by NY Port Authority, not FAA/ATC. Port Authority employee closed the airport.
Tower controller tried his best, but got no response form aircraft. Pilots had their hands full trying to save lives.
Great job to all. I’m wondering if approaching flights would be diverted to Kennedy, Newark or would they just circle?
The pilots would contact their company for instructions. The remaining fuel would be the primary factor.
He literally says truck loud and clear
VASAviation:OH HE MUST BE SAYING TUG!
Correct
VASAviation - wrong, truck1=airport fire truck
Exactly
VASAviation - so then why the fuck u call him tug
There is seriously something wrong with you spazzing out like you did over a wrong word.
love the videos but yall need to work on your captions lol
My god! You people complaining about the captions, shut up! He gets it! Maybe English isn't his first language. Just open your ears, who cares!? It's a UA-cam video, not closed captions for a TV program.
Subscribed
Perhaps I'm missing something but would it not have been much more clear if Car 100 said that an aircraft had crashed before stating that the runway was closed. People seem to be blaming the tower but I think the confusion was reasonable given the cryptic messages from Car 100.
“Cryptic Message”
“Runway closed”…. How can it be “cryptic”???? ‘Runway’ = place where things with wings leap into sky… ‘closed’ = ‘GEE, NOT OPEN?’
They serve Sullenburgers in the McDonald's in La Guardia airport
Can I get those in a combo?
@@dalethelander3781 of course you can. It's the Sullenburger/Yusupov Menu
The drink it comes with is called The Husdon.
@@luckygamer05it's like Fiji Water, but instead it's from the Hudson
Are they made from bird strike left overs?
VSA I'm new at this and don't understand some of the terminology, but am learning. The graphics really help. I could listen to this all night and day. Live NW on ORD and listen to them all the time. How do you catch these emergencies? I've never heard on live.
Well, thank god dude... jesus.
***** I want to hear it in real time.
Good evening from St John Parish, Louisiana 3 Dec 20.
Tug1 sounds an awful lot like "truck1" to me
I have to say the ATC was all over the place, it's like they've never dealt an emergency before or even trained for it.
staff are trained to deal with emergencies using Simulations so they know how to deal with it.
Reminds me of my early days with chuck Yeager flight seminar...you bit the farm
VASAviation is better than Ambien (not saying your videos are boring, just relaxing and interesting!) to help you sleep. And you don't hold press conferences you don't remember this way! :)
Car 100 seems to be the only one with their shit together. Maybe he should have been in the tower instead of Controller Clueless.
agreed
Question from an aviation non-expert: is audio quality as bad as this in practice and if so, isn't it hard to catch all the numbers as they're speaking this fast?
Yes the audio is always like this but remember to pilots the numbers and calls make sense and it is easier to hear numbers when you already know what they mean. To someone that is just listening in to these conversations a lot of it is meaningless and so harder to hear without the added context
Sometimes higher up it sounds better
The audio quality isn't as bad as this in practice. This audio is picked up from some enthusiast's antenna, which isn't in a place that gives great reception.
I like how he called Delta 1999 after handing him off 2 minutes prior
Perhaps making sure 1999 is really off frequency and being handled by departure before he starts communicating with someone else.
9:10 "We were told 13 but we didn't see anything down there" (only because I noticed you're updating the captions).
According to the NTSB investigation update issued on April 2, 2015, investigators found that Delta's MD-88 pilot operational materials (manuals) contained guidance recommending that pilots limit the reverse thrust engine pressure ratio (EPR) to 1.3 when landing on "contaminated" runways, i.e., runways with increased levels of risk related to deceleration and directional control. The investigation has found that the EPR was at 1.9 at six seconds after touchdown, however, based on readout from the flight data recorder. The investigation also found that, upon landing, brake pressure increased in a manner consistent with autobrake application.
According to a Wall Street Journal article published March 9, 2015, "Pilots and air-safety experts have long known that when the MD-88s reversers are deployed, its rudder, or large vertical tail panel intended to help turn the nose, sometimes may not be powerful enough to control left or right deviations from the center of runways.
The final report by the NTSB found the probable cause of the accident was the pilot's "inability to maintain directional control of the airplane due to his application of excessive reverse thrust, which degraded the effectiveness of the rudder in controlling the airplane’s heading. Flight number DL1086 is no longer in us :D
It makes me laugh thinking about the pilots on Delta 2522 at 5:27 just tuning in and not knowing whats going on...
True... 2522 is like "Hey Guys! I'm here" ... ATC: "Go away" lol
So this whole video, description and comments doesn't clear up for me why the MD-80 crashed. Did the pilot sneeze and steer off the runway or what?
Dᴏᴡʟᴘʜᴡɪɴ www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1602.pdf read pages 11-12
VASA - you have many, many captions that are incorrect. I started to write them down, but there are just too many that are wrong.
Roger.
There should be a count down when there is no noice for more than 3 seconds.
How the heck can ATC do mental countdown to 3 when they doing million other things at the same time.
I assume "we got a 3-4" means an aircraft has gone off the runway?
Yes, it means an Aeroplane Incident.
Is there any protocol if an aircraft does not respond after multiple calls from tower? I feel like after six calls for response after around 45 seconds to a minute after a supposed landing is a bit too long to not realize something is wrong. Feels like the tower should have asked for a check (from another tower or somewhere else. Maybe even radar or something idk) or something after the third call that went silent.
There’s only so much when you can do when you’re the local controller and can’t physically see the aircraft in question or have them on radar. They sort of just expect that you’re either doing something particularly intensive on final/landing roll or have gone to ground without permission and the ground controller can yell at you when you come up with them. Plus, no one had said anything to the local controller about this accident, despite the fact that I’m like 99% sure the ground guy knew because you can hear him go “holy shit!” at 3:15
Why no information in the description? This was not up to par with your usual videos. Question: why couldn't the tower see the 31 approach end with the plane off the runway? Too many questions on this one.
Atc was like say again say again until pilots said hey were coming
Listening to this (which is painful), I’m wondering if there is a supervisor in the tower.
Tip put the flight number in the subject or description radio traffic talking to different Delta jets that way keep track of the one that crashed
Negative.
This business is about visibility, sometimes the tower can't see the runway! Even thought it's still above minimums for pilots to land! It's takes teamwork and precision on everyone's part to keep the opera in play! When you don't exit the runway (delta) and don't tell them (TWR), the play comes to a halt!