Also, I feel like the truama of when I dated a guy who invited me to come to his house to play video games (my special interest) and then got annoyed with me as he was hoping to get physical whilst all I wanted to do was ACTUALLY PLAY VIDEO GAMES LIKE HE SAID has never left me.
I'm fortunate to have married a woman with ADHD. That almost bridges the gap between our own conditions since in addition to Autism I have ADHD (non-responsive). She's in MENSA and she even thinks that I'm smarter than her. We never run out of things to talk about. When we met we began a conversation that has just never stopped. 32 years. I only recently found out that I'm Autistic but I've been researching it for twenty years. That started when my cousin who has been diagnosed as Autistic told me that I am too. I tried to get an assessment but the professional I spoke with refused to do it. He more or less said that I don't seem Autistic.
I relate so much to practically everything that you said!! Why did I never get a copy of the rules to this game, which everyone else seems to know?? 🤣 I’ve just found your channel and I’ve got to say, you are a gem, and a brilliant one at that - and you totally deserve to be fully loved and appreciated in all the ways that make you happy! It may not be easy to find the people who are right for you in this sea of normie mediocrity that the dating pool seems to be, but I believe the key is to never give up or close yourself off to finding the right person, but do allow yourself take breaks from trying when you feel the need to. There’s a whole world of weird people out there, and sometimes it takes a while to find someone with the right kind of weird to complement your kind of weird in just the right way. 💞
Dating men is exhausting. But if you want to get them to talk about themselves all you need to do is ask them questions about themselves. My problem is that they don't reciprocate. So I end up knowing everything about them and they haven't asked me a single thing about myself by the end of the date.
I'm a woman and i feel the same. It comes off as them being rude/not wanting to bother learning social skills better, but then I always hear men's perspective that they think it's too hard to talk to women, so i just wind up feeling bad and confused
As a guy, this is actually my "strategy" for initially conversing with women and getting to know them. Any piece of information related to myself is repackaged and contextualized in ways that make them interested by relating it to them. If I want to tell a woman what my favorite movie is, I'll ask her what her favorite film is first and then give my thoughts about *her* favorite film while only referencing mine through comparing and contrasting what I like through her interests. I don't interpret as her being "self-interested" though and generally-speaking I find women to be way easier to talk to than men. I mean even my platonic friends tend to be women because they are usually just... more interesting? I don't wanna be one of those men who shit-talk other men, buuuuut unfortunately a lot of them don't reciprocate because there isn't much going on in their heads.
@@cda6590 The strat with the movie thing is a good one, I'll have to remember that. A lot of women would appreciate this approach in conversation, so it sounds like you're steering right. 😌 It's nice to know people think this stuff out.
@@anitachamberlain3391 It's always disappointing when I hear from other autistic girls/women that their overall experience with other autistic boys/men has been negative. It worries me that gen Z males are at least partly being brainwashed into demonizing and deposing of his potentially greatest ally he could hope for in the form of autistic women in general. My "strategy" is really just a tactic of treating them like they're people. No weirdness of putting them on a pedestal or "negging" (do people still use that word?) to counterfeit the opposite. Being autistic, I at the very least had to learn through experience what was explicitly stated in a close friendship. It wasn't until I had the opportunity to get to know and befriend a handful of autistic women (mostly online) who, in their own individual ways, made it their mission to help me in whatever ways they could.
After being very cruelly dumped by the girl that I believed to be the love of my life, only for her to start talking to new guys not even 4 days later. I'm officially done with relationships. I just want to enjoy my hobbies, my peace and quiet, my solitude, and have nothing to do with people again for a good long while.
I've never been on a date in my life, but I really want to change that this year. part of me is happy that I'm already an adult so I understand myself a lot better but still...wish me a LOT of luck, I guess lol
Good luck!! I honestly started dating around 22 years old and had my first kiss at 25 (which felt like kissing a wall xD) and Im 27 now and still virgin (and that's okay) At first I felt a lot of shame for starting so late in life but I realized that (specially being neurodivergent) it was best thing I could have done since now I know my self better and I know the dangers of people trying to get advantage of you and toxic relationships (in friendships in my case) so I'm much more aware and prepared for the dating world and not as susceptible for abuse I'm thinking of starting again dating since now I know I'm audhd and demi and I'm going to be as upfront as possible since that's who I am and I shouldn't be ashamed for it ❤
I find it impossible to enjoy the company of someone who isn't on the spectrum to some degree, and for dating someone we have to have a shared interest as well or I just find it too difficultfinding stuff to talk about or do together. At this point (early 30's) I just can't really be bothered, if someone I click with happens to cross my path then so be it, otherwise its just far too exhausting to be in the dating game
I tried to date an allistic once and the communication gap was just too vast. Even after discovering I was autistic, I was expected to do all these things in the relationship to accomodate her needs and make her comfortable (which, to be clear, I didn't and still do not have any issue with that), but she refused to do a single thing to accomodate my autism. I was constantly having to absorb a lot more sensory information than I was comfortable with because she found my preferred date ideas boring, but I couldn't even have a breathmint after going out to eat because she didn't like the smell of mint. I'm thankful I'm at least queer because every time a man has even attempted to ask me out has left me viscerally uncomfortable because they all seem to think they can woo me by disrespecting my boundaries. And like you said, they never had anything interesting to say! I had a coworker spend over a YEAR trying to get close to me and work his way up to asking me out and all I learned about him was that he was a single dad. I knew nothing about his hobbies, his favorite shows and movies, nothing. If I ever tried to prod for that information, he would turn the conversation around to ask more about me and avoid answering the question. Like how do you expect me to be attracted to you when you refuse to let me know anything about you?! I'm more than happy to cut men out of the dating pool entirely until they get their acts together.
When it comes to relationships and dating I have kind of given up on it. I just like my own personal space too much and feel that would be disrupted if there was someone else living with me. I actually prefer being alone. Don't get me wrong though I would love some company but it isn't a big deal.
If I ever moved back in with a romantic partner I think I would suggest the idea of separate bedrooms. I am drawn to the notion of being romantically involved with another... just not to the point that I would sacrifice my own private space. Plus, you could have like mini-sleepovers in each other's rooms 'n stuff. It'd be neat.
I think being in a relationship is something that I really crave but it's very annoying because i find the dating rules persay are very limiting, they don't make any sense to me, very inflexible to each others need and what we want out of relationship, they instill us to feel shame about who we are and if there was more freedom to be weird and different but find ways to accomidate each other, we (as a society) could have more fulfilling relationships
You've accurately described my own autistic dating experience in one single video. At this point I've resigned myself to being alone for the rest of my life living my best life as a crazy dog lady to be honest!!
When you were talking about when to like approach asking them to hang out or not knowing what's in their head, or why haven't they like suggested we hang out is that because they don't like me or they haven't thought about it. I totally get that struggle. When is it appropriate to ask them to hang out? I don't always know. I like knowing what people do with their lives, because then I'm aware of, if you're not texting me, it might be because you haven't wanted to or you're busy or you forgot or something like that, because then it's like I know why. Most people on their phones most of the day so if that person isn't texting you is that because they're scrolling or they're making food or they're talking to someone else who's with them. For me it's a guessing game, unless I ask.
A coffee is a low investment date. If the date is off and chemistry sucks, then you don't have to sit through it anyone than it has to. A dinner is longer process as you have to wait for a check, you eat, ect. It's time and convince
Am not currently in the dating game, and never was much good at it, but I do know the solution for how to progress an online text exchange to an irl meeting. The answer is to use autistic bluntness. Screw the natural flow of conversation and just non-sequitur it, preferably with a time and venue already in mind.
My problem is, I just don't care enough about it, to try anymore. I've not had trouble dating or finding people since I was in school. But now... Well, I've got fibro. So a lot of the time, I'm dealing with pain. I also find it really hard to get excited about meeting new people. I don't know whether I'm depressed, or what. But I just can't seem to get into the right headspace... But then I get lonely, and it's like.. Fuck, I gotta get on this shit :? Then more often than not, I just don't.
Since I was so late diagnosed I have dated an amount of women in the upper double digits. And I have very little to show for it. It’s hard to start dating ND people, when you’re undiagnosed and have no concept of what that is. I just kept trying. So there definitely are difficulties as a man as well. I just don’t know how to phrase them in a good way, but they mostly have to do with gender roles and being undiagnosed.
IMHO the only way to make this somewhat easier is finding someone that shares your interests, then you can at least skip small talk. Otherwise, this is one of the most difficult things for a ND person. And considering the dating situation in the west, it's a frigging disaster.
>And considering the dating situation in the west Can you think of counterexamples in the Eastern Hemisphere where they aren't also experiencing troubles? Maybe it's not always the same underlying mechanisms driving people apart, but it seems to be happening basically worldwide.
Anyone who says that women have it easy in dating clearly hasn’t been listening very closely to women. Many of the difficulties women face in dating are _different difficulties_ than the ones men have, and so it’s hard _in different ways_ than it is for men, but… plenty of problems I’m glad I don’t have, even if I don’t like having the ones I do have, and I wish more men would pay attention to that reality. (I think they here the “wall of messages where it’s ‘my turn’” thing (or however you phrased that), and think “I wish I had that many messages!”, and maybe they do wish for that, but they completely ignore everything else that goes with that. It frankly sounds pretty awful to date men as a woman, and I wish more men would realize that - and do the work to _change_ it. Because that would make it better for everyone. (Note: I’m obviously specifically speaking mostly within the heteronormative context for this, and not even addressing the added layer of autism, which I acknowledge is a whole other layer on top of everything else, which I don’t yet grok fully the implications of, especially as it may distinguish itself in gendered ways.)
There was a woman autistic content creator that got 7200 likes on her dating profile in one day, whereas men I’ve read on average will get around 1 left swipe per week. Obviously this is an extreme case, but it shows the difference in difficulties between the sexes. From a completely heteronormative viewpoint of course. NT men in general behave awfully so I would never want to date a person like that, and there is a strong gender role aspect to that.
I would not trust people on dating apps to be honest I find them even more undressworthy than People in the comment section of UA-cam at least the UA-cam commenters are at a distant especially when they say some creepy stuff But on dating apps they could be in your town and you could end up meeting them in real life
My partner and I met online 8.5 years ago and instantly connected like we’d known each other our whole lives, and this year we discovered we’re both autistic, which made a lot of sense 😊❤ having a partner doesn’t necessarily mean you have to get married and have kids!
that instant almost telepathic connection to someone is just magic, I have only experienced it four times in my life and it seems to be a complete green flag for being a forever friend/partner
I just recently had someone who I'd met for the first time ask me irl to go on a walk to talk about psychology (since I told him I'd studied it), which I took at face value in the moment and then proceded to get small-talk messages daily for four days straight without making an actual appointment for a walk, which did not add up to me and gave me such anxiety that I had to sent a message to clear things up, saying I had truly meant to go for a walk just as friends to talk about something interesting. But that is also scary because I get unsure if I'm correct in my assesments or not (and even if you are correct, it's always played up as if you are not). Had to talk it through with someone to actually feel confident enough to make my clarification. This is why single men generally give me anxiety, whether I like them or not, which sucks because I would like to marry one someday🙃
I can't speak to the NT side of this equation, and there are almost certainly significant subsets of ND guys that this won't apply to, but a lot of ND guys have a tendency to assume that we don't have the right to signal our intentions (or even, in some sense, to have intentions) until we've proven ourselves as friends. Friendship is seen as a prerequisite to romance and it's seen as shallow womanizing to pursue any romantic element to a relationship before the platonic element is on firm ground (we've been in high school boys locker rooms, and heard our moms' and teachers' horror stories about men who are just in it for the one night stand, and so we assume that we must invest significantly in a relationship before romance is even on the table in order to establish that we aren't that type of guy). Plus, there's often a fair bit of soul searching about whether the relationship is even feasible long-term (if we aren't fairly certain that it is, even hinting that we're interested feels like womanizing). Of course, having no self-consciousness or social skills, we likely are significantly worse at concealing our interest than we realize. There's a significant part that RSD plays, and also an element of what I've heard ND women call "fear of being perceived": we want to keep things on a level where if you aren't interested, in the best case you'll not even register our interest, and in the worst case you'll deliberately ignore it: if you feel it necessary to tell us explicitly that you're not interested it's taken as a signal that we've made you feel threatened and have been far too forward. And even once we've decided that we've reached the point where we're allowed to think about any romantic aspect to the relationship, we have absolutely no clue how to make the transition.
Interesting! I must say that as a ND woman, I do appreciate it when it is made clear that someone is not trying to womanize me, it at least makes me feel like a person instead of an object. I'm sure NT women notice and appreciate it too. Respect is very charming. But I can understand the difficulties ND men experience. It doesn't help if ND women like me are then so anxious. Personally, I sometimes find myself wishing for clear and graceful courting rules, like the ones that are portrayed in movies about old england high society and such. Today's dating culture feels like the wild west, even to the NT's if I should believe some of my girlfriends, so us ND's are truly out of luck haha. Luckily I am a girl of faith and I'm always hopeful and believe that God is more than able to pair me up with someone who's right for me in a manner that would make it all work out. I hope you find someone suitable as well, for we all deserve a companion. Good luck!
@@fabiennedenberg4777 I have too little of a clue relationship-wise to be sufficiently in touch with modern dating culture to say much about it except for observations from afar, but one issue that certainly feeds into it is that kids aren't really given a sense of positive structure regarding relationships (they weren't, at least, when elder millennials like me were teens, and I don't see any evidence that the situation has improved); there's a whole list of don'ts, but the only thing on the "do" list is "wing it". The NT's are somewhat better at winging it and tend to start by throwing out the list of don'ts, and a lot of the higher-masking NDs follow them out of peer pressure. The lower-masking NDs, and the remaining high-masking NDs cling to the negative structure of the don't list, and do their best to scratch together a "do" list on their own, but it is often predicated on a misunderstanding of the psychology of the other gender where likely reactions are halfway understood but underlying reasoning is not. Most of the romantically well-adjusted NDs I know had an upbringing with at least one of the following three properties: 1) Long ago (e.g, boomers) 2) Rural 3) Religious with traditional gender roles explicitly taught All three of which tend to correlate with the kind of positive structure I'm talking about. About the worst case for ND males as far as having a clue romantically is an upbringing with the following factors: 1) Good relationships with adults, poor relationships with peers. 2) A religious environment that is generally theologically conservative, but egalitarian or ambivalent on gender roles. 3) A school environment in which most teachers are female secular feminists. Factors 2) and 3) introduce a double list of don'ts with very few dos. 1) Ensures that the kid will tune out everything but 2) and 3) (though getting dating advice from young NT peers isn't really the best thing either). Whichever side of the culture wars you come down on, the conflict itself messes up kids worse than either side alone. Young men raised in such an environment are completely romantically passive, and while they generally try to show respect, they don't necessarily have a clue as to what will come across as respectful (thus spiking your anxiety with mixed signals, born, often as not, of mixed feelings). Assuming the guy you talked about in your original post fits this profile, he likely: 1) Had at least half a crush on you (might be reserving judgement on the other half until item 3 was taken care of). 2) Identified a potential shared hyperfixation (if you ended up together, he might have something he could infodump to his wife about without boring her to tears! He might even get infodumps back!) 3) Wanted to make sure the shared hyperfixation was real, then make sure a viable friendship was possible, then try for a relationship (if he could figure out how to make that transition). 4) Didn't want to ask you about scheduling that walk too soon lest he come across as indecently eager. 5) When you asked him for clarification of his feelings, probably felt he had come across as indecently eager and needed to hurry up and leave you in peace.
Do you think this anxiety would be lessened if the man in question was also on the spectrum and you had established with him a pattern of his direct style of communication?
Yea possibily, but it would have to be a good fit in general still of course, since no two people on the spectrum are the same, so in that regard it's not too much different than from dating an NT perhaps. I think in general what would calm me down is someone with sincerity, clear ethics, good emotional intelligence and clear communication. You can generally feel this off of people (at least I can) and it calms me because it means I don't have to be so self-protective and/or do all the heavy lifting in the relationship. All my friends have those traits in common also.
I need my date/partner to be direct or I’m exhausted guessing all the time and missing signals/upsetting them on accident! Also I have trust issues because I can sense things and pick up on red flags to easy now after being abused so much. :/ Also everytime I have tried a coffee date it’s automatically considered Ick and I’m ignored! Women are also hard to deal with too being autistic/adhd
I'm autistic and I actually NEVER dated anyone before. I've been single my whole life. I hope I find my Sonic and be his Amy but I'm not sure if he's out there. I feel like my autism is the reason why I'll never get a boyfriend. I feel like I'm cursed. The number one thing that I want in a boyfriend is that he needs to understand my autism. Also he has to be good looking too!
Unfortunately, men may sometimes stare at women during dates for various reasons, including physical attraction, admiration, curiosity, social norms, lack of awareness, and biological factors. Often, this happens without conscious thought. It's worth noting that women can also stare at others; it's not exclusive to men. Parenthetically when I'm out, I occasionally notice myself looking at people. To avoid this, I take steps like angling my body away, sitting with my back to them, and focusing on my phone, as I understand that staring can make others uncomfortable.
Okay, but if you’re on a date with me, say something while you do it. Like I’m not talking random guy on the train, I’m talking I’m sat in front of them having to carry the entire conversation while they stare and stay quiet
Sure, I understand where you're coming from. It's definitely important to stay engaged and keep the conversation flowing on a date. I've never been on a date myself, so I appreciate your perspective.
As a bit autistically leaning (is that even a word?) man I find it really hard to find the balance between "staring" and making her nervous and avoiding eye contact too much and coming of as uninterested or too shy 😅
(The bastard who doesn't admit it Is you, Dana, I mean, you liked that's boy's personality or mental's health condition? Because if it's the second then it doesn't make sense...)
But still... we may not be at all very diferent... we both have traumas with people of the opposite sex, you made yourself a lesbian as a result of that and I gave up on dating because of that, I mean... you even claimed that you felt overexert because of being a woman and I feel the same because of being a man... You are VERY different of me, don't get me wrong, but in these details you are just like me...
Very interesting topic. I don’t have any exes, and have been married since age 20. I knew nothing, and dating that one, was exhausting, and exhilarating. They had relationship experience, where I had none, and that was both good, and bad.
I hate "hi" or "hi how are you" messages because it's basically asking me to do all the heavy lifting. It's like asking somebody to start a conversation with them. I hate the idea of new style dating on apps... It's like you have to market yourself, heck no! Sounds like a nightmare.. What if someone saw me on there that I knew IRL and I was trying to look all alluring, aaaah 🫣 Maybe I'm just old now IDK
Everyone hates "hi" messages, but realistically that's just the way you start a conversation. You would not approach someone on the street by reciting a poem would you? It's "hi", and "how are you" and THEN a conversation can ensue. It's not fair to expect much more without demonstrating willingness to engage in a conversation yourself also. Keep in mind most messages will be just ignored.
not sure if they have Hiki where you're at but have you tried any of the autistic-specific dating apps yet? I live in a big city and check it periodically, but there's still only the same few people on there... dating is essentially one big social game, so makes sense why we hate it 😂 I also think most don't take it seriously... like you said, they're there to hang out and just have fun or whatever, meanwhile I'm trying to have someone in my life for the long term and get to know them deeply. I just don't see the point in wasting my time on a fleeting connection. I also like to talk to only one person at a time and it feels like much more of a time/energy investment for me than the other person 🫤 I agree, don't like generic "hi how are yous" or shallow compliments... I'll only message someone if I can start a convo about something substantial on their profile. I find going on the actual dates nerve-wracking too, especially if it's a noisy/busy location 😅 half the time I'm so nervous I barely eat.
Being a potentially autistic guy who is waiting to be diagnosed. Dating women is just tough by default but is brutal if you're neurodivergent. She is automatically more social than me and would even prefer to eat out which costs more money, her actions just don't make sense and you have to mind read, inconsistent emotions between dates, she loses romantic interest if you take things slowly and she probably thinks you don't like her when I just don't like sleeping around, you have to consider you're likely not the only guy she is dating especially now with online dating because I've seen women's dating profiles and the amount of attention they can get is insane and finally, some women still act traditional when it suits them. For example I had a woman offer to pay for her coffee on the first date, fast forward to the second date she expects me to pay the full bill at the restaurant. And yes there were further dates. The single life is simply more rewarding for me by not being chaotic that I don't think I want to return to dating.
I haven't been diagnosed but I highly suspect that I could be autistic - If so that would explain a lot - I don't know what the fuck I'm doing to be honest regarding dating , I feel like I'm years behind where I should be given my age , I don't really know how to even begin.
Pretty simalar to my dating app experiences, dating apps are horrible but I have no idea of any other way. Relatable to the guy thing too, I use to allow men to message me but it's never worth it, they would have to work 10x as hard but they never would xD. I gave up bothering with the apps thought, caring for a elderly dog 24/7 and her son who has separation anxiety so I wouldn't be able to go on a date even if I could get one 🙃
@@UnvisibleGirl A man with self esteem who knows self worth will not work 10X harder to attract a woman that doesn't want him in the first place. The right woman for him will want a partnership, not for him to kill himself trying to attract her.
@@aaacomp1 Have you ever looked at the messages decent-looking women receive on dating apps? "Work ten times as hard" is still a pretty low bar. You're swinging at the wrong target here and clearly already have a list of pre-arranged responses ready to dish out under the assumption that this random girl is one of "those women." All you've really done, my brother, is give her yet another example of some random dude on the internet randomly interjecting some slightly off-putting comment and made us look ever-so-slightly weaker as a group.
Yeah there is a fundamental difference between dating as a Male Autistic and a Female Autistic. But that's more has to deal with gender roles and that it's much easier for women to be a passive participant in a date and a relationship
@@Noemi-u2m not sure who you've been dating men are expect to ask for the dates, decide where you are going, follow up after the date, and carry the conversation. Most of the time it feels like you are doing a marketing presentation
Also, I feel like the truama of when I dated a guy who invited me to come to his house to play video games (my special interest) and then got annoyed with me as he was hoping to get physical whilst all I wanted to do was ACTUALLY PLAY VIDEO GAMES LIKE HE SAID has never left me.
I'm fortunate to have married a woman with ADHD. That almost bridges the gap between our own conditions since in addition to Autism I have ADHD (non-responsive). She's in MENSA and she even thinks that I'm smarter than her. We never run out of things to talk about. When we met we began a conversation that has just never stopped. 32 years. I only recently found out that I'm Autistic but I've been researching it for twenty years. That started when my cousin who has been diagnosed as Autistic told me that I am too. I tried to get an assessment but the professional I spoke with refused to do it. He more or less said that I don't seem Autistic.
As a person who can have anxiety/panic attacks at the thought of talking face to face to someone, the whole idea of a date is genuinely terrifying.
I relate so much to practically everything that you said!! Why did I never get a copy of the rules to this game, which everyone else seems to know?? 🤣 I’ve just found your channel and I’ve got to say, you are a gem, and a brilliant one at that - and you totally deserve to be fully loved and appreciated in all the ways that make you happy! It may not be easy to find the people who are right for you in this sea of normie mediocrity that the dating pool seems to be, but I believe the key is to never give up or close yourself off to finding the right person, but do allow yourself take breaks from trying when you feel the need to. There’s a whole world of weird people out there, and sometimes it takes a while to find someone with the right kind of weird to complement your kind of weird in just the right way. 💞
Dating men is exhausting. But if you want to get them to talk about themselves all you need to do is ask them questions about themselves. My problem is that they don't reciprocate. So I end up knowing everything about them and they haven't asked me a single thing about myself by the end of the date.
I'm a woman and i feel the same. It comes off as them being rude/not wanting to bother learning social skills better, but then I always hear men's perspective that they think it's too hard to talk to women, so i just wind up feeling bad and confused
As a guy, this is actually my "strategy" for initially conversing with women and getting to know them. Any piece of information related to myself is repackaged and contextualized in ways that make them interested by relating it to them. If I want to tell a woman what my favorite movie is, I'll ask her what her favorite film is first and then give my thoughts about *her* favorite film while only referencing mine through comparing and contrasting what I like through her interests.
I don't interpret as her being "self-interested" though and generally-speaking I find women to be way easier to talk to than men. I mean even my platonic friends tend to be women because they are usually just... more interesting? I don't wanna be one of those men who shit-talk other men, buuuuut unfortunately a lot of them don't reciprocate because there isn't much going on in their heads.
@@cda6590 The strat with the movie thing is a good one, I'll have to remember that. A lot of women would appreciate this approach in conversation, so it sounds like you're steering right. 😌 It's nice to know people think this stuff out.
😂
@@anitachamberlain3391 It's always disappointing when I hear from other autistic girls/women that their overall experience with other autistic boys/men has been negative. It worries me that gen Z males are at least partly being brainwashed into demonizing and deposing of his potentially greatest ally he could hope for in the form of autistic women in general.
My "strategy" is really just a tactic of treating them like they're people. No weirdness of putting them on a pedestal or "negging" (do people still use that word?) to counterfeit the opposite.
Being autistic, I at the very least had to learn through experience what was explicitly stated in a close friendship.
It wasn't until I had the opportunity to get to know and befriend a handful of autistic women (mostly online) who, in their own individual ways, made it their mission to help me in whatever ways they could.
It's definitely hard to "read between the lines", when you can barely even read the lines themselves.
After being very cruelly dumped by the girl that I believed to be the love of my life, only for her to start talking to new guys not even 4 days later. I'm officially done with relationships. I just want to enjoy my hobbies, my peace and quiet, my solitude, and have nothing to do with people again for a good long while.
I've never been on a date in my life, but I really want to change that this year. part of me is happy that I'm already an adult so I understand myself a lot better but still...wish me a LOT of luck, I guess lol
You not missing anything, lol.
Good luck!! I honestly started dating around 22 years old and had my first kiss at 25 (which felt like kissing a wall xD) and Im 27 now and still virgin (and that's okay)
At first I felt a lot of shame for starting so late in life but I realized that (specially being neurodivergent) it was best thing I could have done since now I know my self better and I know the dangers of people trying to get advantage of you and toxic relationships (in friendships in my case) so I'm much more aware and prepared for the dating world and not as susceptible for abuse
I'm thinking of starting again dating since now I know I'm audhd and demi and I'm going to be as upfront as possible since that's who I am and I shouldn't be ashamed for it ❤
I find it impossible to enjoy the company of someone who isn't on the spectrum to some degree, and for dating someone we have to have a shared interest as well or I just find it too difficultfinding stuff to talk about or do together. At this point (early 30's) I just can't really be bothered, if someone I click with happens to cross my path then so be it, otherwise its just far too exhausting to be in the dating game
I tried to date an allistic once and the communication gap was just too vast. Even after discovering I was autistic, I was expected to do all these things in the relationship to accomodate her needs and make her comfortable (which, to be clear, I didn't and still do not have any issue with that), but she refused to do a single thing to accomodate my autism. I was constantly having to absorb a lot more sensory information than I was comfortable with because she found my preferred date ideas boring, but I couldn't even have a breathmint after going out to eat because she didn't like the smell of mint.
I'm thankful I'm at least queer because every time a man has even attempted to ask me out has left me viscerally uncomfortable because they all seem to think they can woo me by disrespecting my boundaries. And like you said, they never had anything interesting to say! I had a coworker spend over a YEAR trying to get close to me and work his way up to asking me out and all I learned about him was that he was a single dad. I knew nothing about his hobbies, his favorite shows and movies, nothing. If I ever tried to prod for that information, he would turn the conversation around to ask more about me and avoid answering the question. Like how do you expect me to be attracted to you when you refuse to let me know anything about you?! I'm more than happy to cut men out of the dating pool entirely until they get their acts together.
When it comes to relationships and dating I have kind of given up on it. I just like my own personal space too much and feel that would be disrupted if there was someone else living with me. I actually prefer being alone. Don't get me wrong though I would love some company but it isn't a big deal.
If I ever moved back in with a romantic partner I think I would suggest the idea of separate bedrooms. I am drawn to the notion of being romantically involved with another... just not to the point that I would sacrifice my own private space. Plus, you could have like mini-sleepovers in each other's rooms 'n stuff. It'd be neat.
I think being in a relationship is something that I really crave but it's very annoying because i find the dating rules persay are very limiting, they don't make any sense to me, very inflexible to each others need and what we want out of relationship, they instill us to feel shame about who we are and if there was more freedom to be weird and different but find ways to accomidate each other, we (as a society) could have more fulfilling relationships
You've accurately described my own autistic dating experience in one single video. At this point I've resigned myself to being alone for the rest of my life living my best life as a crazy dog lady to be honest!!
When you were talking about when to like approach asking them to hang out or not knowing what's in their head, or why haven't they like suggested we hang out is that because they don't like me or they haven't thought about it. I totally get that struggle. When is it appropriate to ask them to hang out? I don't always know. I like knowing what people do with their lives, because then I'm aware of, if you're not texting me, it might be because you haven't wanted to or you're busy or you forgot or something like that, because then it's like I know why.
Most people on their phones most of the day so if that person isn't texting you is that because they're scrolling or they're making food or they're talking to someone else who's with them. For me it's a guessing game, unless I ask.
A coffee is a low investment date. If the date is off and chemistry sucks, then you don't have to sit through it anyone than it has to. A dinner is longer process as you have to wait for a check, you eat, ect. It's time and convince
Am not currently in the dating game, and never was much good at it, but I do know the solution for how to progress an online text exchange to an irl meeting.
The answer is to use autistic bluntness. Screw the natural flow of conversation and just non-sequitur it, preferably with a time and venue already in mind.
My problem is, I just don't care enough about it, to try anymore.
I've not had trouble dating or finding people since I was in school. But now... Well, I've got fibro. So a lot of the time, I'm dealing with pain. I also find it really hard to get excited about meeting new people.
I don't know whether I'm depressed, or what. But I just can't seem to get into the right headspace... But then I get lonely, and it's like.. Fuck, I gotta get on this shit :? Then more often than not, I just don't.
Since I was so late diagnosed I have dated an amount of women in the upper double digits. And I have very little to show for it. It’s hard to start dating ND people, when you’re undiagnosed and have no concept of what that is. I just kept trying. So there definitely are difficulties as a man as well. I just don’t know how to phrase them in a good way, but they mostly have to do with gender roles and being undiagnosed.
IMHO the only way to make this somewhat easier is finding someone that shares your interests, then you can at least skip small talk. Otherwise, this is one of the most difficult things for a ND person. And considering the dating situation in the west, it's a frigging disaster.
>And considering the dating situation in the west
Can you think of counterexamples in the Eastern Hemisphere where they aren't also experiencing troubles? Maybe it's not always the same underlying mechanisms driving people apart, but it seems to be happening basically worldwide.
@@cda6590Yeah, I was going to ask if it’s really any better in Europe, besides having much better public transportation.
Anyone who says that women have it easy in dating clearly hasn’t been listening very closely to women. Many of the difficulties women face in dating are _different difficulties_ than the ones men have, and so it’s hard _in different ways_ than it is for men, but… plenty of problems I’m glad I don’t have, even if I don’t like having the ones I do have, and I wish more men would pay attention to that reality. (I think they here the “wall of messages where it’s ‘my turn’” thing (or however you phrased that), and think “I wish I had that many messages!”, and maybe they do wish for that, but they completely ignore everything else that goes with that. It frankly sounds pretty awful to date men as a woman, and I wish more men would realize that - and do the work to _change_ it. Because that would make it better for everyone.
(Note: I’m obviously specifically speaking mostly within the heteronormative context for this, and not even addressing the added layer of autism, which I acknowledge is a whole other layer on top of everything else, which I don’t yet grok fully the implications of, especially as it may distinguish itself in gendered ways.)
There was a woman autistic content creator that got 7200 likes on her dating profile in one day, whereas men I’ve read on average will get around 1 left swipe per week. Obviously this is an extreme case, but it shows the difference in difficulties between the sexes. From a completely heteronormative viewpoint of course. NT men in general behave awfully so I would never want to date a person like that, and there is a strong gender role aspect to that.
I would not trust people on dating apps to be honest I find them even more undressworthy than People in the comment section of UA-cam at least the UA-cam commenters are at a distant especially when they say some creepy stuff But on dating apps they could be in your town and you could end up meeting them in real life
Christopher Eccleston is definitely my favorite. I know that’s far from the point of the video, but he’s so under appreciated that I had to say it.
Being autistic and attempting to date... My guess is that dating with another autistic person could NOT be always the best strategy...
My partner and I met online 8.5 years ago and instantly connected like we’d known each other our whole lives, and this year we discovered we’re both autistic, which made a lot of sense 😊❤ having a partner doesn’t necessarily mean you have to get married and have kids!
that instant almost telepathic connection to someone is just magic, I have only experienced it four times in my life and it seems to be a complete green flag for being a forever friend/partner
a friend of mine worked at Sonic! she was a rollerskating waitress.
I just recently had someone who I'd met for the first time ask me irl to go on a walk to talk about psychology (since I told him I'd studied it), which I took at face value in the moment and then proceded to get small-talk messages daily for four days straight without making an actual appointment for a walk, which did not add up to me and gave me such anxiety that I had to sent a message to clear things up, saying I had truly meant to go for a walk just as friends to talk about something interesting. But that is also scary because I get unsure if I'm correct in my assesments or not (and even if you are correct, it's always played up as if you are not). Had to talk it through with someone to actually feel confident enough to make my clarification. This is why single men generally give me anxiety, whether I like them or not, which sucks because I would like to marry one someday🙃
I can't speak to the NT side of this equation, and there are almost certainly significant subsets of ND guys that this won't apply to, but a lot of ND guys have a tendency to assume that we don't have the right to signal our intentions (or even, in some sense, to have intentions) until we've proven ourselves as friends. Friendship is seen as a prerequisite to romance and it's seen as shallow womanizing to pursue any romantic element to a relationship before the platonic element is on firm ground (we've been in high school boys locker rooms, and heard our moms' and teachers' horror stories about men who are just in it for the one night stand, and so we assume that we must invest significantly in a relationship before romance is even on the table in order to establish that we aren't that type of guy). Plus, there's often a fair bit of soul searching about whether the relationship is even feasible long-term (if we aren't fairly certain that it is, even hinting that we're interested feels like womanizing). Of course, having no self-consciousness or social skills, we likely are significantly worse at concealing our interest than we realize. There's a significant part that RSD plays, and also an element of what I've heard ND women call "fear of being perceived": we want to keep things on a level where if you aren't interested, in the best case you'll not even register our interest, and in the worst case you'll deliberately ignore it: if you feel it necessary to tell us explicitly that you're not interested it's taken as a signal that we've made you feel threatened and have been far too forward.
And even once we've decided that we've reached the point where we're allowed to think about any romantic aspect to the relationship, we have absolutely no clue how to make the transition.
Interesting! I must say that as a ND woman, I do appreciate it when it is made clear that someone is not trying to womanize me, it at least makes me feel like a person instead of an object. I'm sure NT women notice and appreciate it too. Respect is very charming.
But I can understand the difficulties ND men experience. It doesn't help if ND women like me are then so anxious. Personally, I sometimes find myself wishing for clear and graceful courting rules, like the ones that are portrayed in movies about old england high society and such. Today's dating culture feels like the wild west, even to the NT's if I should believe some of my girlfriends, so us ND's are truly out of luck haha.
Luckily I am a girl of faith and I'm always hopeful and believe that God is more than able to pair me up with someone who's right for me in a manner that would make it all work out. I hope you find someone suitable as well, for we all deserve a companion. Good luck!
@@fabiennedenberg4777 I have too little of a clue relationship-wise to be sufficiently in touch with modern dating culture to say much about it except for observations from afar, but one issue that certainly feeds into it is that kids aren't really given a sense of positive structure regarding relationships (they weren't, at least, when elder millennials like me were teens, and I don't see any evidence that the situation has improved); there's a whole list of don'ts, but the only thing on the "do" list is "wing it". The NT's are somewhat better at winging it and tend to start by throwing out the list of don'ts, and a lot of the higher-masking NDs follow them out of peer pressure. The lower-masking NDs, and the remaining high-masking NDs cling to the negative structure of the don't list, and do their best to scratch together a "do" list on their own, but it is often predicated on a misunderstanding of the psychology of the other gender where likely reactions are halfway understood but underlying reasoning is not. Most of the romantically well-adjusted NDs I know had an upbringing with at least one of the following three properties:
1) Long ago (e.g, boomers)
2) Rural
3) Religious with traditional gender roles explicitly taught
All three of which tend to correlate with the kind of positive structure I'm talking about.
About the worst case for ND males as far as having a clue romantically is an upbringing with the following factors:
1) Good relationships with adults, poor relationships with peers.
2) A religious environment that is generally theologically conservative, but egalitarian or ambivalent on gender roles.
3) A school environment in which most teachers are female secular feminists.
Factors 2) and 3) introduce a double list of don'ts with very few dos. 1) Ensures that the kid will tune out everything but 2) and 3) (though getting dating advice from young NT peers isn't really the best thing either). Whichever side of the culture wars you come down on, the conflict itself messes up kids worse than either side alone. Young men raised in such an environment are completely romantically passive, and while they generally try to show respect, they don't necessarily have a clue as to what will come across as respectful (thus spiking your anxiety with mixed signals, born, often as not, of mixed feelings).
Assuming the guy you talked about in your original post fits this profile, he likely:
1) Had at least half a crush on you (might be reserving judgement on the other half until item 3 was taken care of).
2) Identified a potential shared hyperfixation (if you ended up together, he might have something he could infodump to his wife about without boring her to tears! He might even get infodumps back!)
3) Wanted to make sure the shared hyperfixation was real, then make sure a viable friendship was possible, then try for a relationship (if he could figure out how to make that transition).
4) Didn't want to ask you about scheduling that walk too soon lest he come across as indecently eager.
5) When you asked him for clarification of his feelings, probably felt he had come across as indecently eager and needed to hurry up and leave you in peace.
Do you think this anxiety would be lessened if the man in question was also on the spectrum and you had established with him a pattern of his direct style of communication?
Yea possibily, but it would have to be a good fit in general still of course, since no two people on the spectrum are the same, so in that regard it's not too much different than from dating an NT perhaps. I think in general what would calm me down is someone with sincerity, clear ethics, good emotional intelligence and clear communication. You can generally feel this off of people (at least I can) and it calms me because it means I don't have to be so self-protective and/or do all the heavy lifting in the relationship. All my friends have those traits in common also.
It’s really unfortunate that any time you actually take the time to think about what to say, it never gets a response. It’s exhausting.
I need my date/partner to be direct or I’m exhausted guessing all the time and missing signals/upsetting them on accident!
Also I have trust issues because I can sense things and pick up on red flags to easy now after being abused so much. :/
Also everytime I have tried a coffee date it’s automatically considered Ick and I’m ignored! Women are also hard to deal with too being autistic/adhd
I'm autistic and I actually NEVER dated anyone before. I've been single my whole life. I hope I find my Sonic and be his Amy but I'm not sure if he's out there. I feel like my autism is the reason why I'll never get a boyfriend. I feel like I'm cursed. The number one thing that I want in a boyfriend is that he needs to understand my autism. Also he has to be good looking too!
Unfortunately, men may sometimes stare at women during dates for various reasons, including physical attraction, admiration, curiosity, social norms, lack of awareness, and biological factors. Often, this happens without conscious thought. It's worth noting that women can also stare at others; it's not exclusive to men.
Parenthetically when I'm out, I occasionally notice myself looking at people. To avoid this, I take steps like angling my body away, sitting with my back to them, and focusing on my phone, as I understand that staring can make others uncomfortable.
Okay, but if you’re on a date with me, say something while you do it. Like I’m not talking random guy on the train, I’m talking I’m sat in front of them having to carry the entire conversation while they stare and stay quiet
Sure, I understand where you're coming from. It's definitely important to stay engaged and keep the conversation flowing on a date.
I've never been on a date myself, so I appreciate your perspective.
As a bit autistically leaning (is that even a word?) man I find it really hard to find the balance between "staring" and making her nervous and avoiding eye contact too much and coming of as uninterested or too shy 😅
"I am a bastard but at least I admit it AT LEAST I ADMIT IT" Spliknot "My plague" 2001
(The bastard who doesn't admit it Is you, Dana, I mean, you liked that's boy's personality or mental's health condition? Because if it's the second then it doesn't make sense...)
But still... we may not be at all very diferent... we both have traumas with people of the opposite sex, you made yourself a lesbian as a result of that and I gave up on dating because of that, I mean... you even claimed that you felt overexert because of being a woman and I feel the same because of being a man... You are VERY different of me, don't get me wrong, but in these details you are just like me...
Very interesting topic. I don’t have any exes, and have been married since age 20. I knew nothing, and dating that one, was exhausting, and exhilarating. They had relationship experience, where I had none, and that was both good, and bad.
I hate "hi" or "hi how are you" messages because it's basically asking me to do all the heavy lifting. It's like asking somebody to start a conversation with them.
I hate the idea of new style dating on apps... It's like you have to market yourself, heck no! Sounds like a nightmare.. What if someone saw me on there that I knew IRL and I was trying to look all alluring, aaaah 🫣 Maybe I'm just old now IDK
Everyone hates "hi" messages, but realistically that's just the way you start a conversation.
You would not approach someone on the street by reciting a poem would you?
It's "hi", and "how are you" and THEN a conversation can ensue.
It's not fair to expect much more without demonstrating willingness to engage in a conversation yourself also.
Keep in mind most messages will be just ignored.
not sure if they have Hiki where you're at but have you tried any of the autistic-specific dating apps yet? I live in a big city and check it periodically, but there's still only the same few people on there...
dating is essentially one big social game, so makes sense why we hate it 😂 I also think most don't take it seriously... like you said, they're there to hang out and just have fun or whatever, meanwhile I'm trying to have someone in my life for the long term and get to know them deeply. I just don't see the point in wasting my time on a fleeting connection. I also like to talk to only one person at a time and it feels like much more of a time/energy investment for me than the other person 🫤
I agree, don't like generic "hi how are yous" or shallow compliments... I'll only message someone if I can start a convo about something substantial on their profile.
I find going on the actual dates nerve-wracking too, especially if it's a noisy/busy location 😅 half the time I'm so nervous I barely eat.
Being a potentially autistic guy who is waiting to be diagnosed. Dating women is just tough by default but is brutal if you're neurodivergent. She is automatically more social than me and would even prefer to eat out which costs more money, her actions just don't make sense and you have to mind read, inconsistent emotions between dates, she loses romantic interest if you take things slowly and she probably thinks you don't like her when I just don't like sleeping around, you have to consider you're likely not the only guy she is dating especially now with online dating because I've seen women's dating profiles and the amount of attention they can get is insane and finally, some women still act traditional when it suits them. For example I had a woman offer to pay for her coffee on the first date, fast forward to the second date she expects me to pay the full bill at the restaurant. And yes there were further dates. The single life is simply more rewarding for me by not being chaotic that I don't think I want to return to dating.
I haven't been diagnosed but I highly suspect that I could be autistic - If so that would explain a lot - I don't know what the fuck I'm doing to be honest regarding dating , I feel like I'm years behind where I should be given my age , I don't really know how to even begin.
Have you done a vid on "how do you make friends"? asking for a friend ... ;)
Pretty simalar to my dating app experiences, dating apps are horrible but I have no idea of any other way. Relatable to the guy thing too, I use to allow men to message me but it's never worth it, they would have to work 10x as hard but they never would xD. I gave up bothering with the apps thought, caring for a elderly dog 24/7 and her son who has separation anxiety so I wouldn't be able to go on a date even if I could get one 🙃
why would any man want to work 10X harder to be with a woman? Your partner should be your comfort, not your 2nd full time job.
@@aaacomp1 I mean if they trying to attract me( at least from my experance ), basicly takes a lot for me to like a guy as a posed to women or enbies
@@UnvisibleGirl A man with self esteem who knows self worth will not work 10X harder to attract a woman that doesn't want him in the first place. The right woman for him will want a partnership, not for him to kill himself trying to attract her.
@@aaacomp1 You arnt listening so leave me be
@@aaacomp1 Have you ever looked at the messages decent-looking women receive on dating apps? "Work ten times as hard" is still a pretty low bar. You're swinging at the wrong target here and clearly already have a list of pre-arranged responses ready to dish out under the assumption that this random girl is one of "those women."
All you've really done, my brother, is give her yet another example of some random dude on the internet randomly interjecting some slightly off-putting comment and made us look ever-so-slightly weaker as a group.
Your hairs like my hair except my hair is straight
By the way are you feeling better from your burnout 😊
Interesting.
Yeah there is a fundamental difference between dating as a Male Autistic and a Female Autistic. But that's more has to deal with gender roles and that it's much easier for women to be a passive participant in a date and a relationship
It's usually women carrying the conversation and doing the emotional labor and planning of things in straight relationships.
@@Noemi-u2m not sure who you've been dating men are expect to ask for the dates, decide where you are going, follow up after the date, and carry the conversation. Most of the time it feels like you are doing a marketing presentation
A 21 year old dating a 16 year old is illegal at least where I live. I’m sorry if what you went through was grooming
Age of consent in (I think) most of europe is 16.
Though it is often a bit frowned upon when the age difference is more than like two years.