Great well thought out information. I guess you know Pat Puckett is a fan of your book The Started Colt and has referred to it on his channel. He's a terrific horseman with both knowledge, experience, ability and good sense. Looks like you're ridin' the same trail. Really enjoying your videos.
That's nice thing about having a wall full of them. Better chance of finding one you like that your horse does as well and looking cool at the same time. 😎
Thank you. I’ve never had a center hung. I only have 2 anyway. But it seems a little easier for me to use a little slower bit. . I am sure better as I get older and discovered that 90 percent of the problem with a horse is my hands. By the time I die hope to make less mistakes that over the years the horses I’ve ridden have put up with and made good horses despite my mistakes. Thank you for all you do. Wish I’d learned more from good hands years ago. God Bless the horses that have done well despite me.
I think that holds true for all of us, at least the ones that try to keep learning. The more you watch people interact with their horses, the more you realize what a forgiving animal they are and many times they figure it out in spite of us rather than because of us. This even holds true for some YT trainers. Brett makes me think deeper, I like that.
I like that you mention that mankind has been horseback 8-10k years. I like David Anthony’s book; The Horse, The Wheel, and Language. He makes a compelling argument that the folks that made economies of domesticated horses were likely riding horses with hackamores that wouldn’t leave any evidence in the skeletal remains of ancient ponies. I can’t imagine anyone could herd horses for long without being horseback themselves
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt You’ve clearly done your homework! I went down a fun rabbit hole a few years ago in an effort to understand where domesticated horses come from. After Anthony’s book I read the Gathas of Zarathustra, translated by Piloo Nanavutty, it’s more of a primary source to ancient Western culture via indo-Iranians.
according to most Ancient western and near east verbal histories God so loved man that he harnessed the south wind and gave it to man as a horse. I like the sound of that.@@PathologicallyPositive
So I’ve heard it said that the design of each different cheek piece, for instance the Santa Barbra vs the Las Crucis had a lot to say as well? Just from looking, it would seem the Santa Barbara will consistently seek out one specific balance point where as the las crucis wouldn’t so much?
the balance of the bit depends on the maker's skill and having proper ratios of purchase, shank, canon and mouth. a Santa Barbara and las cruces should both balance equally well. I think a video on how to check a bit's balance would be a great idea. The primary difference between the Santa Barbara and Las Cruces is the position of the canon or bar, forward hung or center hung. The forward hung bar and position of the rein attachment on the Santa Barbara make it a "slower" cheek. The center hung las cruces with the straight cheek and direct line at the rein attachment make it faster, more responsive cheek. The Las Cruces will require the horse to be faster footed and more "on the bit" whereas the Santa Barbara is slower and therefore more forgiving if the horse comes out of frame or if the rider is not as accurate in their hands.
They both do that, its just that the Santa Barbara does it slower. Remember the curb strap is involved in the action of both, both engagement and dis engagement.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt so I’m thinking more along the lines of, at what position does each bit find its center or neutral. If i place a santa barbra on on my palm it will, if built correctly rest at a 35-45° angle no? But a las cruces, because its center hung and straight up and down will with perfect balance stand straight up? And if this is the case doesn’t this generally encourage a horse, if light handed enough to seek the different neutral position, the horse in a las cruces would be more vertical no?
I wish he would answer this part of your question more because I am wondering too. I think you are right though, that the Las Cruces would make a horse more vertical, more "on the bit" just even in a resting position in their mouth. @@jedfgross
My understanding, which I got mostly from Pat Puckett's videos, is that the balance point is a function of how the mouthpiece is attached to the cheek piece (I'm talking spades, now) and it can/should be whatever you need it to be, depending on the horse you're riding/training. Some spade bit horses are naturally more vertical than others. Ex: Andalusians and Arabs are more vertical than most quarter horses will ever be. So you buy (or have made) a bit that balances where you need it to balance for the particular horse. A spade bit balanced for a more vertical horse would be very uncomfortable on a QH, etc. If I'm understanding PP correctly 😊
Thank you sir for the video! So have you used the las cruces cheek much? And personally do you find yourself using it over the santa Barbara? Thank you.
Yes, I prefer the Las Cruces (and have many) because I'm very methodical and slow handed. However at the beginning of the day, what I choose to ride the horse in depends on the days task and which bridle will be the most efficient to advance the horse that day.
Yes I have several that I use a lot. I prefer them on a trained horse over the SB. One is not better than the other nor does using one over the other make a better hand its just personal preference to the rider. Maybe because I learned to ride English first I prefer the straiter faster feel?
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt so in your opinion would it be wiser in most circumstances if I start the 2 rein in a Santa Barbara and continue in it after the 2 rein till what I consider a finished horse and then switch to the las Cruces? I hope I worded it enough to make sense. Thanks.
@@andrewcastillo9558 Im not sure why I answered that first question a second time, I guess Im so computer illiterate that I didn't realize or remember I had already answered. Anyway it doesn't make much difference, start or finish with either cheek use one use the other the horse will tell you what he prefers. Its pretty easy to make more of this than it really is, its just a bit its not nuclear fusion. I think a lot of people have bought into the idea that you only have one chance and if you mess up the horse will never make it blah blah blah, some people teaching this method of bridling have made a ton of money preaching that. The truth is you will mess up, Oh well, the horse will forgive you.
Bret at 8:14 you hold up a bit with a center hung hooded port mouthpiece that you have nothing good to say about LOL. But it's not clear (to me at least) what's wrong with it. Nor is it evident why that bit constitutes "reinventing the wheel."
Im sorry I dont know what that bit was...I won't watch the video...I want to help if I am disparaging about the bit then message me I will say my piece .
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Actually I've been trying to figure out how to message you (outside of youtube), but I can't find an email address for you online or on your website or on your patreon. Maybe because I'm not a paid patreon member at this point. Message you about something else -- leverage bit cheeks still, but not this particular comment.
@@epona9166 Davistraining83@gmail.com feel free. I will tell you that I am a father, a son, a husband, an employee and a child of God so no e-mail really makes much of a difference to me but the paid members do get first dibs. I enjoy a good debate so help yourself.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Ok, smart one. Why were bits invented? ...............Wrong. Try again. They are used as a means of controlling a horse through discomfort, pain, fear, and intimidation, or, in the horse's mind, the thread of the above. Get it. It doesn't matter how soft your hands are. Finesse, not fear. Digest that.
@@gerrycoleman7290 So what do you suggest? What method of control is non pain compliance? Or do you just ride bare back with nothing on the head at all?
You put this information in an easy to understand way. Makes more sense to me than most explanations I have heard. Thank you
thank you. Im glad it made sense to you. I sometimes manage to understand what I am talking about as well.
Great well thought out information. I guess you know Pat Puckett is a fan of your book The Started Colt and has referred to it on his channel. He's a terrific horseman with both knowledge, experience, ability and good sense. Looks like you're ridin' the same trail. Really enjoying your videos.
Thank you so much for the kind words. I sure am proud to have a fan of Pat's caliber
Terrific video for someone who doesn't have the variety of bits and cheeks Much appreciated
Glad you enjoyed
Glad you enjoyed it
That's nice thing about having a wall full of them. Better chance of finding one you like that your horse does as well and looking cool at the same time.
😎
A wall full of bits is a beautiful thing
Thank you. I’ve never had a center hung. I only have 2 anyway. But it seems a little easier for me to use a little slower bit. . I am sure better as I get older and discovered that 90 percent of the problem with a horse is my hands. By the time I die hope to make less mistakes that over the years the horses I’ve ridden have put up with and made good horses despite my mistakes. Thank you for all you do. Wish I’d learned more from good hands years ago. God Bless the horses that have done well despite me.
At least I’ve kept most light sided. Not fond of pedaling one.
Same goes for me
I think that holds true for all of us, at least the ones that try to keep learning. The more you watch people interact with their horses, the more you realize what a forgiving animal they are and many times they figure it out in spite of us rather than because of us. This even holds true for some YT trainers. Brett makes me think deeper, I like that.
Very informative.
Thank you Jan
Will you consider making a video that shows the different mouthpieces (regular spade, spoon spade, half breed, etc) based on horses build and carry?
working on it.
I like that you mention that mankind has been horseback 8-10k years. I like David Anthony’s book; The Horse, The Wheel, and Language. He makes a compelling argument that the folks that made economies of domesticated horses were likely riding horses with hackamores that wouldn’t leave any evidence in the skeletal remains of ancient ponies. I can’t imagine anyone could herd horses for long without being horseback themselves
That was a good book, I also enjoyed it.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt You’ve clearly done your homework! I went down a fun rabbit hole a few years ago in an effort to understand where domesticated horses come from. After Anthony’s book I read the Gathas of Zarathustra, translated by Piloo Nanavutty, it’s more of a primary source to ancient Western culture via indo-Iranians.
I see. And what did you learn? Anything other than the obvious?@@PathologicallyPositive
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Well, it all seems pretty esoteric to me, but I’m of the conviction that God loves horses!
according to most Ancient western and near east verbal histories God so loved man that he harnessed the south wind and gave it to man as a horse. I like the sound of that.@@PathologicallyPositive
Eso hombre - te felicito !
So I’ve heard it said that the design of each different cheek piece, for instance the Santa Barbra vs the Las Crucis had a lot to say as well? Just from looking, it would seem the Santa Barbara will consistently seek out one specific balance point where as the las crucis wouldn’t so much?
the balance of the bit depends on the maker's skill and having proper ratios of purchase, shank, canon and mouth. a Santa Barbara and las cruces should both balance equally well. I think a video on how to check a bit's balance would be a great idea. The primary difference between the Santa Barbara and Las Cruces is the position of the canon or bar, forward hung or center hung. The forward hung bar and position of the rein attachment on the Santa Barbara make it a "slower" cheek. The center hung las cruces with the straight cheek and direct line at the rein attachment make it faster, more responsive cheek. The Las Cruces will require the horse to be faster footed and more "on the bit" whereas the Santa Barbara is slower and therefore more forgiving if the horse comes out of frame or if the rider is not as accurate in their hands.
They both do that, its just that the Santa Barbara does it slower. Remember the curb strap is involved in the action of both, both engagement and dis engagement.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt so I’m thinking more along the lines of, at what position does each bit find its center or neutral. If i place a santa barbra on on my palm it will, if built correctly rest at a 35-45° angle no? But a las cruces, because its center hung and straight up and down will with perfect balance stand straight up? And if this is the case doesn’t this generally encourage a horse, if light handed enough to seek the different neutral position, the horse in a las cruces would be more vertical no?
I wish he would answer this part of your question more because I am wondering too. I think you are right though, that the Las Cruces would make a horse more vertical, more "on the bit" just even in a resting position in their mouth. @@jedfgross
My understanding, which I got mostly from Pat Puckett's videos, is that the balance point is a function of how the mouthpiece is attached to the cheek piece (I'm talking spades, now) and it can/should be whatever you need it to be, depending on the horse you're riding/training. Some spade bit horses are naturally more vertical than others. Ex: Andalusians and Arabs are more vertical than most quarter horses will ever be. So you buy (or have made) a bit that balances where you need it to balance for the particular horse. A spade bit balanced for a more vertical horse would be very uncomfortable on a QH, etc. If I'm understanding PP correctly 😊
Good shit .Thank you.
Thank you
Yup,Pat Puckett
Thank you sir for the video! So have you used the las cruces cheek much? And personally do you find yourself using it over the santa Barbara? Thank you.
Yes, I prefer the Las Cruces (and have many) because I'm very methodical and slow handed. However at the beginning of the day, what I choose to ride the horse in depends on the days task and which bridle will be the most efficient to advance the horse that day.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Okay, thank you for the explanation.
Yes I have several that I use a lot. I prefer them on a trained horse over the SB. One is not better than the other nor does using one over the other make a better hand its just personal preference to the rider. Maybe because I learned to ride English first I prefer the straiter faster feel?
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt so in your opinion would it be wiser in most circumstances if I start the 2 rein in a Santa Barbara and continue in it after the 2 rein till what I consider a finished horse and then switch to the las Cruces? I hope I worded it enough to make sense. Thanks.
@@andrewcastillo9558 Im not sure why I answered that first question a second time, I guess Im so computer illiterate that I didn't realize or remember I had already answered. Anyway it doesn't make much difference, start or finish with either cheek use one use the other the horse will tell you what he prefers. Its pretty easy to make more of this than it really is, its just a bit its not nuclear fusion. I think a lot of people have bought into the idea that you only have one chance and if you mess up the horse will never make it blah blah blah, some people teaching this method of bridling have made a ton of money preaching that. The truth is you will mess up, Oh well, the horse will forgive you.
Form and function
Bret at 8:14 you hold up a bit with a center hung hooded port mouthpiece that you have nothing good to say about LOL. But it's not clear (to me at least) what's wrong with it. Nor is it evident why that bit constitutes "reinventing the wheel."
Im sorry I dont know what that bit was...I won't watch the video...I want to help if I am disparaging about the bit then message me I will say my piece .
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Actually I've been trying to figure out how to message you (outside of youtube), but I can't find an email address for you online or on your website or on your patreon. Maybe because I'm not a paid patreon member at this point. Message you about something else -- leverage bit cheeks still, but not this particular comment.
@@epona9166 Davistraining83@gmail.com feel free. I will tell you that I am a father, a son, a husband, an employee and a child of God so no e-mail really makes much of a difference to me but the paid members do get first dibs. I enjoy a good debate so help yourself.
The only good bridle is no bridle at all. Think about it.
nonsense
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt That comment shows that you need to get out more. And that you have a lot to learn about horses and a whole lot to unlearn.
@@gerrycoleman7290 Fill me in. Unlearn me. Start a UA-cam channel and fix the world. Why is no bridle the only good bridle?
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Ok, smart one. Why were bits invented? ...............Wrong. Try again. They are used as a means of controlling a horse through discomfort, pain, fear, and intimidation, or, in the horse's mind, the thread of the above. Get it. It doesn't matter how soft your hands are. Finesse, not fear. Digest that.
@@gerrycoleman7290 So what do you suggest? What method of control is non pain compliance? Or do you just ride bare back with nothing on the head at all?