Smart to Use Rubber Bullets?: Into the Fray Episode 102:
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2016
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The use of rubber bullets for self-defense might prove to a District Attorney that you have tried everything to avoid using deadly force, but the question remains, "Why would you use less than lethal force against a deadly threat?"
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Not everyone wants to kill someone
Responsibly armed Americans do not want to kill, we want to stop the threat of someone trying to kill us.
The Opinionator exactly! I totally agree 👍
It sounds a lot better in court if you have 1 or 2 rounds of rubber first. You "might" suffer a knife wound, but the worst is over when the attacker is dead.
@The Opinionator
I'd say you're wrong and hopefully not dead wrong.
I don't know of a single law abiding citizen who carries for self defense or even police officers who "wants to kill someone". All of them are prepared for that day if it should ever come but not a single one is cherishing the idea of taking the life of another human being even if are justified by the law. However I know of some dirt bag gang bangers and thugs who wouldn't blink an eye and would boast about wanting to kill someone.
There's a difference in the category of "everyone".
If you ever find yourself in a life threatening situation, God forbid, where your life or the lives of your love ones are in imminent danger and you are in fear of your life then only the lawful use of deadly force will be effective in protecting you and your love ones by hopefully neutralizing the threat immediately.
And yet that "knife wound you might suffer" could cost you your life. That's why its called "deadly force".
Whose here coz of riot in america
Hahahah you got me dude
me 。
Me
I ammm
Me
A few less-lethal rounds in the chamber/magazine are a good idea for those of us who want enough force to stop a deadly threat, but would prefer to do so without killing the attacker EVEN IF deadly force is justified under the law.
100% agreed, I don’t know why rubber bullets aren’t mor commonly used
@@tylerdoop because when you have a deadly threat, you need to stop the threat immediately!
100% agree
@Poda Poramboku who said anything about taking a life?
Probably shouldn’t carry then carry a baton if you don’t wanna use deadly force to protect your life
I think this advise should be reconsidered. 90% of the time you pull out a pistol will deter an attacker. Of the 10% who would persist, most will be deterred from the pain of rubber bullets.
Same. Definitely something I think is less excessive, but at the same time, if I was ever in a situation that I needed to have a firearm, and need to use it, it’s likely a scenario that demands stopping power.
I definitely would rather see rubber bullets used in scenarios of unarmed invaders, but it’s only apparent when we’re watching the aftermath and thinking back. You never know what someone has on them until you pull yours out, and by that time, you’d better hope you have something that can save your life in your hands. :/
You forgot one factor, drugs. Drugs turn people into straight zombies dude.
@@ReedemedServantOfChristJesus good point
Wasn’t it mentioned in the video that attacker was shot with 2 rubber bullets and still continued to attack
@ReedemedServantOfChristJesus It doesn't even take drugs. I just watched a video of a woman who was shot in the face with a rubber bullet in a protest. She had a fat lip. I've had a fat lip just like it from being punched. I was not on drugs and I was not incapacitated. It made me really angry.
The rubber bullet is to get their attention and give them a chance to live, if they persue then they gave themselves a death sentence...
Not how it works idiot
@@Gaviid what do you expect from a radical bootlicker?
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
inflicting pain in the correct place will give you a much better chance of not needing to use what most consider a lethal round. lets be honest, even a rubber bullet can be lethal.
Even cold water
@@mohsenslim4395 sounds like you been hit with a frozen water slug before. Crap hurts don’t it
So if you are doing security and you see someone burglarizing or safe stealing catalytic converters should you use deadly force
@@jonathanwashington3469subdue him if easy, shoot em if he attacks you, chase after him, but don’t use deadly force when he’s running away let the perp go if it gets to that.
I mean, anything moving at 1,800 miles per hour is super lethal.
I never understood how these guys don't understand some ppl don't want to meet a lethal threat, none lethally. Yeah someone may be trying to kill me but I don't want to kill them I want to disable them. So there sir there is the reason why some ppl don't want to kill somebody even if they tried to kill you. Let that sink in....
I intend to carry the first two rounds rubber. The simple reason is this: While I am willing to kill to protect myself and my family, I'd rather not have to. So if two rubber rounds stop the attacker (which they most likely will. That shit hurts.) then great. If they don't, well then I've got hollow points lined up ready to finish the job. Plus, telling the attacker "That one was rubber, the next one is not" can be pretty convincing. Guns stop crime more often from their presence than they do from actually being fired. I'll do what I have to do, but nothing more.
You preached the Gospel my friend.
I'm right here with you bud
Nice fantasy ya got there. If a situation has escalated to the point where you have to draw a weapon, less than lethal isn't an option.
It's possible one might reconsider after getting whacked with a rubber bullet
Might want to make at least the first round less than lethal. The one in the chamber is usually the only one that fires in a negligent discharge. Might save a lot of dumbasses from blowing holes in themselves.
Interesting reason I hadn't thought of.
but a automatic won't cycle. then you have a jam.
9mm rubber pellet has enough energy to pierce a tire. If you seriously think that two-three of such, let alone 12g will not deter a knife-wielding assailant, you've been watching tv too much.
Well sometimes you shoot people with lethal bullets and you can shoot them 10 times and they still keep running
@@geometerfpv2804 why not set yourself up so you have a 99.99% chance of stopping your threat completely?
@@forensicwow1639 because some of us would rather solve an altercation as peaceful as possible and almost no one can take more than 2 rubber bullets and still be a threat
@@marvelcomics6111 no. You have a deadly threat you respond with deadly force.
@@forensicwow1639 agreed. But for situations like someone breaking in your house and running off with your stuff it would be handy to have some rubber bullets to neutralize them.
love how the only negative aspect of deadly force for this dude is the legal repercussions
There are cases where the victim defended themselves from someone who was brandishing a weapon and shouting threats at them while walking toward them angrily, but the court decided that they didn't wait until the attacker got close enough, so the victim was sent to jail. In cases like this, 2 rubber bullets would probably keep you out of prison. Like if someone was running toward you with a baseball bat, shooting them from 20 feet might put you in jail, but if your first 2 shots were rubber and they didn't back down, then your killing shot would have happened when they were closer. Of course the problem is that you don't know what kind of attack you are going to get when you are loading your gun, and 2 rubber shots, while they could keep you out of jail in some situations, won't do you any good if someone points a gun at you from 25 feet away. Your first shot needs to have a good chance of disabling them and no one in the world could convince me that a chunk of rubber is as disabling as a lump of lead. There is no sure-fire way to defend yourself and stay out of jail at the same time. This is one of those problems without a solution.
Went to the USCCA conference in Wisconsin last year and had a blast. Became a subscriber a couple weeks ago and really love the videos. Great work!
+TacticalCanner Thanks! Have you checked out the Concealed Carry Magazine?
+USCCA Yes. I got a free copy when I went to the conference and got the free online magazine. Look forward to getting the subscription when I complete my membership.
+USCCA Just became an official member yesterday. Looking forward to your magazine!
I am new to being a gun owner...sig 9mm . ill be using rubber bullets to practice shooting since I don't want to risk a stray bullet. other than that real ammunition going in.
Rubber bullets may not cycle the semi auto pistol. Its says that in their own description I have read. Maybe some brands will, But I would certainly want to test them.
@@johnstudd4245 Where can one find rubber bullets? I am struggling to find any.
@@smilecolorsan Go online and google "concepts in ammunition" and see what they have.
You should do some practicing with the ammo you want to use for self defense, or something very similar. To make sure your gun handles it with out any malfunctions and so you get accustomed to it. If you have a decent place to shoot you should not have to worry about a stray bullet. Never point your gun in a direction you do not want to shoot.
Buy some bulk full metal jacket ammo, it is cheap to practice with. Then buy some ammo specifically made for self defense, use some to make sure it functions well in your gun then keep the rest for self defense when needed, then maybe a new box every year and shoot the old stuff up. Although ammo will last for many years.
how about a situation were other family members residing in the single family dwelling are absolutely against lethal ammo but will allow firearms in the house if non-lethal ammo is used? What non-lethal ammo for a pistol or revolver is best for home defense when lethal ammo is banned?
You should make agreement you can live with if you ever had to prevent *_imminent_* *AND* otherwise *_unavoidable_* danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent.
I’m considering loading rubber bullets in the case the bullet travels through walls and hits someone innocent, as well as added protection in case the gun is ever used on me, or if the gun is picked up by an idiot and points it at his friend. Lets assume I use proper storage of the firearm.Thoughts?
Agree. Worried about the same thing.
They make home defense cartridges for pistols for that particular reason
@Poda Poramboku wound unless you hit a soft area of the body such as the eyes and face then we can see major injury that I’m unique cases may be deadly (facial bone fracture)
do yo know if they sell 44 mag rubber bullets and will they feed through a lever action rifle.
I might load the first round as less leathal and then Hollow point
I can't seem to find a dealer online that sells quality rubber bullets that will rapid fire like real ammo without the need to rechamber the next round. Any recommendations?
I totally agree with you Kevin. You saying stop the threat made me think of the tv show by ATSN. What do you think of that show?
Anyone know where you can buy rubber bullets that will fit in a standard pistol magazine? Want to purchase either a 9 mm or 10mm glock.
So what if you want to stop the looter(s) during or at the start of the act. Or someone bent on destruction, arson, or vandalism. All of the preceeding comments were based on a binary choice out of an attacker rather than dealing with an incapacited law enforcement force.
You wouldn’t shoot a looter unless they are trying to attack you
I carry daily and love the idea of a three round runner starter to the mag. I think we’re so caught up in those situations with insane psychotics that we assume that it will be like that if we ever have to draw. And it might be, but I’d bet mo eye that most cases are not. I also carry with an empty chamber and consistently practice like that as well. Improves the safety of carrying my gun around with me by 100% while highly unlikely I’ll ever need hat extra one to two seconds in any real situation statistically speaking. I’ve built a muscle memory to racking the chamber and very quickly on the draw.
I understand the safety issue of carrying unchambered. But, I saw a video where a couple were surprised by a group of men that started beating the guy of the couple. The point was made that if you are carrying and surprised, the time to draw and chamber your weapon could be too much.
@@mihai7192 I have taken that into great consideration. Basically what I feel is that the odds of being in that situation are very, very slim. So, when taking an insurance approach to the situation, I find more peace and benefit in having 100% safety at all times. Then, when I go to the shooting range, or I’m at home with an empty pistol dry practicing, I train my muscle memory to draw and chamber at the same time. It’s very easy to get that round chambered almost as fast as a chambered draw. And when I say “almost,” I’m not referring to drawing competition numbers, I’m referring to a real life situation where half a second is not going to make much of a difference in most situations that you will likely find yourself in. You can put that perspective into use for just about anything in life that you need to protect yourself from and if we lived in a chambered world, it would be rather interesting.
You need to put your gun away in the safe since you're so scared of it, get yourself some pepper spray works good for women
@@WaitWhatsMyName You’re a troll and an idiot. I’m not afraid of my pistol at all. I’m just not as stupid or on edge as you are.
I'm really back and forth with keeping a round chambered in my semi-automatic (M&P Shield) I use for CCW. Even with the trigger guarded with a rigid holster, I am somewhat concerned that if the butt gets caught on something and the firearm gets dislodged what may happen. Maybe my next CCW will be a pocket gun with a long trigger pull to try to avoid this scenario altogether. I really want to be safe.
I see less-lethal rounds as an intermediate step to using deadly force. It is more effective than a pepper ball gun, without requiring you to carry both at the same time. One tool that can do two jobs.
Good Advice Sir. Thank You
Wait- the law states a gun can only be used in self defense if fearing imminent death or great injury. So if you're being lawful, and you expect that if you don't pull the gun that death is probable, why bother with less than lethal and the outcome could be death for you? Seems like the person don't understand what a deadly threat is.
weareanonmyous wecannotbestopped you can get out of jail and live your life, you can’t however step out of that grave
thx well done
I like this guy ... get the job done quick and effective
Excluding the possibility for increased malfunctions with the use of rubber bullets. I'm not opposed to the idea of having the first two bullets be LTL. If you're looking to prove that you did everything possible to avoid killing someone then, do it. If someone stops after they've been shot by a handgun it's either a physiological stop or a nervous system hit, the former being the most likely. In that case, the person being shot isn't going to know immediately that they've only been shot with a LTL round. If they don't stop, than the time it takes to get to your lethal rounds in your mag would be minimal. You don't have to be Jerry Micalek to be able to pop off rounds quickly. All that being said, I'll stick with a full mag of critical duty and one in the pipe.
My uneducated and inexperienced opinion would be if rubber rounds have feeding issues, then having one in the chamber is the MOST you should have. It shows you tried to use non lethal, any accidental discharge (it happens) is less lethal, and it should remove most of the feeding problems.
I use buck shot, follow by slugs in my shotgun....if I have access to my 9mm gun” with hollow points” well it’s curtains for any attacker that decides to break in my house......you could get in trouble if you shoot them in the back.
So make sure they’re facing you
Crowd control is up to us now. It's June 2020 now. Police are not available in many areas. What is a good type of round for the unarmed crowd? .25 .38. .22 .32 available?
Forgot to add they have a UA-cam channel. "ATSN Stop the Threat"
If an assailant gets a hold of your firearm you may not want to be a victim of your own weapon.
I was unaware that victims care who owned the means of their torture. I was not.
Learn how to use it
Thats why you carry two
Well if it's loaded with rubber bullets it won't be so bad. Something to think about.
My fists are my rubber bullets. A Knife attacker is a gun situation every time
how efficient is a 9 mm rubber bullet? Does anybody know?
I think loading 2 or even three rubber bullets before the widow makers are up is a great idea.
What do you think about polymer bullets or balls
Yes.good advice.sub'd.thanks.B.Wills
may I I make a suggestion please: Re your "no single bullet out of a hand gun will stop a charging man" or words to that effect.... In the USMC war in the Philippians where the officers were using 38 cal pistols and even rifle bullets 30 cal when used against the Moro Natives who would bind there joints and only desire was to reach the trench the Marine's were firing from long enough to swing the manchette and cut the Marines heads off/ so the USMC went to 45 cal pistols and created leather neck protections (that's where the USMC got the name "leather Neck" from) ___________________________________________________________________________Anyway; In Korea the USMC charged en-mass by the Chinese carried the USMC 45 Cal and because the ballet is slow it got wound up in the vey thick cotton jackets so some moms sent their sons 357 revolvers and it went through the cotton vests leaving a small entry hole and blew out the back of the Chinese with a palm size hole. ____________________________________________________________________________Lets say that neither of these statistics solves that problem you mentioned ...what about then the 1000 Lb. Brown Bear Hunter who faces the same problem (1) few single shots will stop a brown bear in the torso or head,... even; so they shoot the charging animal in the right front leg / shoulder and he does go down where upon he pumps more led into him killing him. so ...couple of 45 cal shots in the right hip/leg do the trick????You can make exploding bullets easily enough but legal //????
i was thanking on getting some rubber bullets for a wail. but lookin at this and thankin about it made me thank thank if tha wouldn't work
If you assume a rubber bullet is not lethal, you need to think again. If a round goes through a wall to kill someone, which any lead or brass round will, expect to be tried for manslaughter. Decide what works and what you can life with. I have no intent of hitting a vital organ or going to prison for killing an innocent bystander.
Thinking about this for dog attacks. Yesterday, I used pepper spray on a pit bull that was biting my dog, that is untill the owner pushed me down for spraying his dog. He was lucky he got his dog off of mine, because option # 2 was my 380. By me not shooting the dog first, it allowed my dog to be hurt. For those not wanting to shoot an attacker with a knife, when seconds matter, hope you have a great insurance policy.
Rubber bullets aren't a good choice, if you live in a zone controlled by gangs, and if you defended yourself from a gangster and let him/her live, they may come back with more people or even chase you and find put where you live, I did the mistake to let somebody live, because I thought people needed a second chance to think about their action but I was wrong. Maybe you may not need always to kill somebody, but you must stop the threat quickly.
What about for home defense? Perhaps it's just a robber -- no weapon, no imminent death, but you don't necessarily want to get in a fist fight where anything can happen. Wouldn't rubber shotgun shells be ideal for home defense?
If all they do is property damage, plan on spending a portion of your life behind bars.
They the best Selfdefense Options, to keep you out of Jail, after Two Rounds on the Purpe... 90%of Purps will give up
purp lol
Go find a library.
I don’t really agree with that last statement. Yes stopping the threat is important but also preservation of life is important too. I’d rather give my attacker the chance to run and live than to take his life automatically
Why? Why is the preservation of someones life who is more than willing to take yours even a concern? From the legal aspect yeah, it’s less to deal with not killing someone. However, when you’re being threatened or viciously attacked by someone trying to take your life or property because of their own short comings, whether it be financial, morally, or mentally (only logical reasoning imo) then the last of your concern should be preserving their already lack luster existence.
@@DarkEquinox345 it’s really situational. And depends on the circumstances and the attacker himself. There are going to be times when lethal force is needed yes. But is it really that hard to load a few rubbers on top of your hollow points so if they keep coming you do have something that will end the threat? I always keep 2 non lethal rounds loaded and one chambered. And the rest hydroshocks. I don’t want to kill anyone even if they mean to take my own life, but if i have to I’m prepared. Plus it looks good in court.
@@bryce36 I can respect that. 🫡
Well i search fo.rubbet bullets because i afraid itbwas wrong to kill when we are attacked but thanks for explaining that it allowes
Once again, great advice!! Did it sound to you that perhaps that viewer just can't come to grips with actually shooting to kill??
I once killed a neighborhood kid I was jealous of with a blow to the throat..... and then I woke up. I never felt the same about killing as you imply you do since then. Decades later he broke up with his wife and shot himself. I did not feel better about him killing himself. I would feel safer with the viewer as a neighbor than you. It is unlikely a rubber bullet will penetrate an exterior wall.
@@geometerfpv2804 Just so you know, I do not, and I hope that I never have to take someone’s life. Gun owners must take that responsibility very seriously. We never take that lightly. The ONLY reason I would ever shoot/kill someone is if my life or the lives of others were in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured. If I fell that my life is about to end, then it comes down them or me. I’m go to pick me every single time.
As for taking the life of “some misguided kid” who wasn’t going to be violent, I would like to know just how many people do you think are able to read a criminal’s mind?? If a person, for whatever reason, CHOOSES to commit criminal acts, they are no longer “misguided youth”-they are now a criminal. I may feel bad for the criminals and their families, but I will be grateful that I am still alive. You may feel that I am being heartless, but you couldn’t be more wrong.
An alien gun that evaporates your blood in an instant. That would be wild
deadly threat and you shoot the attacker you are still going to jail, don't be fooled it's self defence, there is no such thing. and to add icing on the cake, if the attacker lives you will get sued.
It is ignorant to assume you cannot be sued by a dead felon than you can assume you will not get stung by a dead bee. Their relatives will sue you for wrongful death, just like they did OJ, regardless of what the police or criminal courts rule.
WhatsHappening783402 it's the same in Indiana
i was always told dead men tell no tales so they can only take your story if you shoot, shoot to kill
@WhatsHappening783402 you have a nice law there in texas, here in our country if you killed an intruder or robber you will be jailed
Will 1 rubber round be enough to convince the DA?
Exactly. Not every attacker is coming at you with an exposed knife. If excessive force is even remotely in question, having one rubber in there might be the thing that shows you didn't want to have to use lethal force. Intent is a big part of the legality.
This video answers the question you didn't know you need to ask?
Im actually here for reason. I live in the country as a contractor. I have to visit a lot of different properties with bulls. Some times they charge and make work impossible. Killing a customers bull is illegal. In my state even hitting somebody elses cow or bull on a road with you car is illegal. You have to pay the worth of there live stock. I some times fire in the air with success but some bulls simply dont care. Im very curious if rubber rounds would help deture them.
100% this. If you pull your gun it better be a dam good reason. If you know you have less lethal you are more inclined to possibly pull it when not absolutely needed. Please do not use rubber bullets. It will get you killed at worse and in jail at the least.
can someone translate this video in California Law
I understand this post is a yr or more old. On Facebook in one of my gun pages. We recently touched base on rubber bullets and shot gun pellets. We had almost over 400 people chiming in on their take and opinion. The main question everyone was asking is. Would a rubber round or pellets stop the threat. To be honest the only time i have seen rubber bullets or pellets being used is on a show called Lock Up and they seem to work but on the other hand the prisoners are not firing back. One person said about mixing his ammunition with lethal and non lethal rounds. I personally like this idea. Give the would be attacker two to three rounds of non lethal followed by lethal rounds. But before I do any thing is will take some serious thought and research.
I agree
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. No rubber bullets for me.
Lookup the Tueller Drill
you're supposed to bring these to a knife fight
Paul Stebelton Exactly. Bring a gun with rubber bullets to a gun fight.
Keep in mind that the attacker could also have a gun.
See in New Mexico we dont really have a self defense law its very vaguely worded so if i fired 2 rubber bullets and then fired a live round that means i took the time to not try to kill that person as stated in our self defense law
Proud USCCA member!!!
+Shane Bradbury Glad to have you as a member, Shane!
I totally see the rubber bullet issue , DA's are very quick to bring charges on people who protect themselves !!!
It depends on the situation. Out on the Indian Reservation a guy came toward his victims during a burglary. The shotgun blast killed him. The investigation was short and no charges were made.
most days when I leave my house I have a magazine loaded with a half dozen less lethal rounds, when I get to work or my destination I change mags to one loaded with lethal rounds. In my case it makes perfect sense to carry LTL rounds in transit, since I live out in the country down gravel roads and the LTL rounds are for protection against dogs while I ride my motorcycle. I know some people that carry ammonia to spray dogs, will just shoot the dogs with normal rounds, or carry the snake shot, personally most of the dogs I may need to use them against are family/farm dogs and are just protecting their property from unknown vehicles. The LTL rounds also save me having to hear my boss from complaining about removing all the pellets from snake shot or removing the bullet from the persons dog when they bring them in.
if thats the case why not pepper spray the dog instead?
Well-manufactured non-lethal ammo is capable of blowing a tire. The accuracy is on par with live ammo too.
The pain shock of these may be just as severe as hollow point, making no perp willing to fight on, and especially being able to shoot with any precision.
I'd say this type of ammunition is quite adequate for most if not all defence situations.
All rounds are lethal at close range; including rubber bullets. I would not use one for anything but the threat of death or grave injury. However, I would argue the shot of a hollow point reduces pain while a rubber one would facilitate it.
They're unreliable and don't cycle well if at all. Also, if you need to pull a weapon, the situation has already progressed past "non lethal"
That very handy I always did that in my shotgun the first 2 round where rubber
I don't want to kill anything!!
The only way I would ever take that step is if my wife or my kids where in a life
Situation
I'm just concerned about crowded areas. The round could go right through them and hit an innocent person.
My question is can you load a gun with both rubber bullets and regular bullets?
Maybe it's extra protection if he has kids are lost the gun. But I don't know if rubber bullets can kill are not. but hopefully better than lead bullets.
No thanks. It would be nice to think I can have the time to respond with less than lethal, but the fact is I cannot plan for that. With the number of times I have read about bad guys taking several rounds and continued fighting or ran away, I won't take that chance.
There's a difference between blunt force and piercing force. One is like getting hit with a sledgehammer, the other is like getting stabbed.
You're likely to be able to get stabbed dozens of times before dying and or becoming incapacitated. Getting hit with a sledge hammer though...standing is not likely at all.
Rubber bullets are blunt force. Normal bullets are piercing.
Do what you can live with. A rubber bullet to the gut is better than a shot to the head as a warning shot.
In some countries you're require to use two blanks before. Rubber bullets are better.
Brother Mouzone disagrees:
'Pellets in plastic. Rat shot. What you need be concerned about is what's seated in the chamber now: a copper-jacketed, hollow-point, 120-grain hot street load of my own creation. So you need to think for a just a moment and ask yourself: "What do I have to do before this man raise up his gun again?" '
It sounds like this video was just uploaded today in 2021.
For a man assailant, the sight of a gun can scare him away, if not the sound of even a rubber shot can cause him to runaway, and worse case hitting him with a few rubber rounds can definitely subdue him. & then have your way with him, take him down call & call the cops. That's better than taking a life that's not ours to take. Him going to jail for quite some time & dealing with the pains of rubber rounds hopefully teaches a lesson & hopefully won't come at you or anyone else fo giving him a 2nd chance at life especially if he's young, it's not worth killing him imo.
I'm a deep thinker
I'm a bit torn on it and I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. There's pros and cons with doing this and not doing it. It all depends on your situation and what you feel comfortable with. Every situation is different and a lot of "what ifs" go along with any situation you can come up with in your head. A lot (maybe most) of us want to just stop a threat with minimal repercussions - both legal and deadly. I like the idea of having 2 less than lethal rounds in as the first step to possibly stop an attack and not get anyone killed, but I get the arguments against it. If you think about it - cops have a whole arsenal on them from pepper spray, batons, Tazers, guns, bullet proof vests, and training - and they still get hurt or killed by whack jobs almost everyday. So nothing really can guarantee your safety.
If you are apprehensive about concealed carry in Condition 1 (no round in the pipe), then using your first round as a less than lethal (LTL) round makes perfect sense (assuming the LTL round reliably cycles the weapon)... if indeed you choose to put that LTL round in Condition 1.
A lot of folks like me do not feel comfortable having a lethal round in the pipe using a striker fire, no-external safety weapon. I work in pasture and woods a good bit. Wear a vareity of holsters, and have small children. Life happens. So the comfort level of a Condition 2 weapon for all other normal life scenarios makes more sense (for many many folks).
However, the advantages of having a round in the pipe is that you do not have to rack the weapon first of you need to draw/shoot your weapon as quickly as possible.
Obviously, Condition 1 loaded is pretty much ready to go at any time, makomg it much faster to fire off that first round. Further, if need be, you can use the weapon one-handed (no need to rack the slide). Yes, racking the slide one-handed on your belt or leg can be done, but still not theoretically as fast as a Condition 1 weapon.
Enter the less than lethal round as the first cartridge to be fired in a self defense situation...
Having a less than lethal round already chambered (in Condition 1) followed by a magazine of lethal rounds can bring the best of both worlds.
LTL round fired will rack the slide, even if shooting one handed. Its faster than having to manually rack the slide. It may take some getting used to, but its still an alternative way to carry.
I would feel much more comfortable carrying Condition 1 with a LTL round in the pipe as the first round. If there is an accidental discharge, GOD FORBID... it will be a less than lethal round going off.
It may cause some bodily harm if fired point blank range, but most likely its a survivable and non-critical event.
So... I think there is a place for LTL rounds being used in this fashion.
Furthmore, carrying like this can assist the historical Condition 2 carrier to feel comfortable moving to the Condition 1... over time, should they consider it.
Just a thought.
This 1:35 ~ 1:42 yes, but what's the point of it if you get arrested because of it?
because the alternative is being dead?
Here's the one issue neither the comments nor the video dealt with, if you can run a Tueller drill and get off more than two rounds, you're a better man than I am.
Not everyone wants to kill due to moral reasons.
This seems more like a personal moral obligation rather than anything to do with the law. If you pull out your gun, you are using deadly force and the rubber bullet argument is just an asterisk you have to hope the DA/jury goes for. You can’t even point your gun at someone without potentially catching an aggravated assault charge. If you’re actually in a life threatening situation with two rubber bullets, you also better be able to rapidly hit like 4/4 shots if you need to, which I’d bet the average gun owner cannot reliably do in a stressful situation
What rounds do you prefer for self-defense?
If I even pull my weapon, it is because I am in fear of my life or the lives of others. If my life or others are in danger why would I want anything other than a a defensive round in my handgun? I wouldn't!
Just because you are in fear of your life doesn't mean your life is in danger. That person wandering in the dark in your house may have been your brother visiting for the holidays but you didn't remember that before you lit him up. Or maybe it's your neighbor who was so drunk he went into the wrong house.
Ironically, public situations of armed robbery or active shooter are different and may be more suitable for real rounds.
K It is apparent that you know nothing about self defense. You always make sure of your target. You also don't know that I am a former police officer and I have had extensive training.
If my brother was coming to my house he would make sure that I knew he was coming second he would not be breaking into my house. As for the drunk neighbor. Since My closest neighbor is a mile from me. It is highly unlikely that he would come to the wrong house. Again even if he did, he would not be kicking the door in to get in what he thought was his own house.
Your what ifs are at best being ignorant of what self defense is, and the rules of safely owning guns. If you own guns go get some real training learn your state laws about self defense. Then come back and we can talk.
It's apparent you don't read well and don't realize think that you're just human and make mistakes all the time like every other human. Oh, and most Americans don't live in the boonies.
K
No apparently you think that everyone goes blindly shooting without knowing whom they are shooting at in a self defense situation. That is total ignorance of gun safety.
If you would had taken time to look it up, there are just about the same amount of people living in rural areas as live in urban areas. But you didn't, or you wouldn't have made such a uneducated talking point.
It is apparent that you nothing more than a troll, who probably lives in a town or city still in your mothers basement.
Since it is obvious that you and a gun control fruitcake I am through with you. Have a nice night in your safe place! (even though there is no such thing as a safe place.)
This gun control fruitcake troll who lives in his mom's basement has been to the desert twice so that folks like you can have the freedom to be ignorant and call names on UA-cam. I'm not mad though. Peace.
this guy use to get bullied in school ...
My plan is
1. always hike with bear dog to alert me of (black bear) bear on the trail
2. If I encounter a bear, walk away from bear but if bear persists
3. talk forcibly to bear- "Git bear, go away bear."
4. Scare bear with airhorn
5. fire rubber bullets from safe distance near bear to scare him
6. fire rubber bullets at bear if he charges
7. Deploy bear spray if he gets within 15 feet
8. fire close range rubber bullets into his body should he make contact
Why not just make the top 2 rounds non lethal? Best of both worlds.
"No single handgun round will stop an attack" 500 s&w won't even stop them?
I dare you to break into my home and test that theory! One shot with my gun single mass WILL STOP YOU DEAD! Kind of hard to attack me with no heart! The Cavatational damage my rounds do even within 4 inches of ANY organ is going to destroy that organ. It makes a 1 inch hole on one side of you and a 7 inch on the other!
I'm super Liberal and gave a Thumbs Up because his thoughts were simple and explained well (Thank you!). I imagine the Thumbs Down are from people who just didn't understand him, though I don't think he could have explained his thoughts any better.
I am one of those who don't agree with outright killing the attacker, many first time soldiers find it difficult to draw blood on someone.
what about the 9mm mace round ? hit in the chest with a 3 round burst of mace rounds then hollow points after that in the magazine. would those rounds be better than just rubber. they should stop an attacker
what happens if you intend to just use the mace rounds and accidentally squeeze that trigger a 4th time? suddenly your 3 round burst of deterrent just became unintended lethal force. Also do rubber bullets or mace rounds function in your pistol? Or are you going to have to run the slide after every shot?
@@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929
I asked an officer he said 3 mace rounds would be smart and I'd be better off in court after that. well practice is important. and deescalating. it would be a better outcome then if I put 3 hollows in him first. I have the rounds on back order. I plan to test them out at an outside range . I dont know if I will have to re rack every round. I have thought of that too.
@@donovanferreira88 interesting. Ive been told the opposite. And I dont know that in a high stress situation I would remember that I specifically have 2 or 3 or however many mace rounds and not stop shooting after those. Also as far as ive heard pointing a gun at someone not in need of shooting is aggravated assault, so I wouldn't want to point a gun at someone not in need of lethal force and then try and argue that its ok because I didnt have a lethal round in the chamber.
@@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929 ccw teacher said carry a knife. that's lethal. I plan to train with the 3 non lethal rounds. I already practice 3 round bursts. teacher said there's a difference in pointing and standing a gun ..I hope to never find out . I think its one less thing to carry like a mace can. I know they make blank tear gas and mace rounds but those revolvers can shoot live ammo. im hoping they are worth the money. I googled 9mm mace ammo and found them . id love to continue to ask and learn about it tho. thank you for your replies
@@donovanferreira88 If you specifically tailoring your training to include the idea of having those mace rounds thats better than the people talking about loading 1 or 2 less-lethals because they dont want to kill someone and calling it good.
There is another channel called active self protection that does breakdowns on violent encounters and he just did a video where muggers shot someone over a purse. Not saying that you should train to kill because of that but its something I would take into consideration that alot of muggers are nowhere as averse to causing harm as a lot of the people in this comment section saying how they think that rubber bullets are the perfect self defense tool.
ua-cam.com/video/CezO9Ep8Onw/v-deo.html
Yes you will be charged,its up to the state attorney to examine if a crime has been committed
that is a good point to understand... if your life is at risk then use deadly force and later on claim your justice and proof your true thank you
I ain't no killer but don't push me.
You stop ANY A ATTACKER BUT IN COURT YOU GONNA HAVE TO PROVE WHY YOU SHOT HIM IN THE HEAD in addition not every state gun law will permit ending dealy threats
I live in a country where real guns are extremely difficult to obtain but no laws on traumatic type pistols that shot a rubber bullet so I’m using that,Ekol Viper 2.5 Traumatico see how that goes......
I have two kiddos and wife. I just bought 10 Home defence bullets. They Less likely to go through walls and kill my family. I plan on putting one as warning shot when i carry. I also feel safer if some how that goes when not needed and Likely less injury. That's just me.
You know a warning shot is illegal right? Where exactly are you shooting this warning shot?
@@idkijs435 no it's not technically. Depends. Sometimes ppl have guns with no bullet's my G
Haha if anyone is approaching you trying to attack you with a knife shot to kill "they paid the band now they get to dance the dance" - ASP. People who are mentally crazy are not afraid death vs common criminals who robbed and steel. People who are suicidal more than not make furtive gestures in order to in order to force the defender or officer to shoot them. Someone who's insane is just going to run you down with no stop unless you make them stop, or disarm them but that means you must dive in and grapple over the weapon. And it's inevitable that you'll get cut in a edged weapon situation. Your skill-set and attitude will surely determine the outcome
If we can stop a threat with non-lethal force e.g. rubber bullets.... why not? Looks better in court should it come to that. Though in some studies they say rubber bullets can still cause death. The implication is you didn't intend to "kill" the threat....which makes it easier to argue...OF COURSE if the threats after being hit with the "non-lethal rounds" still are coming THEN swap in FMJ or JHP. Hav both?
THere are studies that say that "non-lethal" projectiles can be lethal because the rounds don't fly straight. E.g. officer was aiming for the torso and the round hit the protester in the face. Happened.
Over penetration? Use a lower velocity round IMHO....e.g. 45 ACP vs 9mm ...if one insists on not using "non-lethal"..
If the threat is there, I guess a quick dose of hollow 45 should cure the problem.
45acp...because shooting twice is just silly :)
The problem will follow you for the rest of your life. Ask Zimmerman.
Thank you sir👍
In romania only vagabonts street vagabonts gamgsters, small and big ones have such weapons, the rulest of us we are stuck with rubber bullets only
If I'm at my house I'll have 1 rubber in the chamber the rest is real 9mm, if you're still coming after the warning your done
How about 4 for self defense and the rest real bullets
I dont like the idea of rubber bullets for self defense.
BUT, there is one thing they might be very good for. If a kid gets your gun, it might save their life. After one shot, theyd most likely get scared and drop the gun. Or if someone disarms you, and tries to shoot you with your own gun, it might save YOUR life long enough to counter attack.....
Well this is dumb...
If a kid gets your gun it was not stored properly or even in many states legally. If your gun gets taken from you, you did not use it correctly in first place and you should not have one.
I’m looking at rubber bullets because in France if your life is threatened by someone you kill them or gravely injure them you will loose and very likely go to jail