Hi Mark! Thanks for the indepth review. I recently upgraded to the Profitec 600 from a Gaggia Classic and I am loving the consistent taste of my shots now. I'm also having fun trying to get the right microfoam for latte art! In the video, you state the steam pressure gets up to 2 bars when you set it at 272 degrees. I have mine set at 267 degrees and get from 1 to 1.5 bars steam pressure. I make 3-4 lattes in the morning. Do you recommend I change my steam boiler temperature to 272? I have had my brew boiler set to 199 degrees...maybe I'll set it to 200 degrees to match yours and see if I notice any taste differences!
Hi Lisa, Thank you for the comment! Coming from the Classic you've got to love the ability to brew and steam simultaneously and the rock solid brew temps. My steam boiler is set to 270F (that's t2 on the PID control) which is max setting. Not unusual to see the display indicate 272 now and then. There is some variation in pressure/temperature relationship based on altitude above sea level. Raising your t2 to 270 will increase the steam power. Personally I like the extra power and I recommend you give it a try. If you feel it's too much you can always dial it back. Marc
I purchased this machine from WLL and I like it very much! One thing that prospective buyers should keep in mind is that the manual says that one should not descale the machine oneself because descaling requires partial disassembly of the machine. This means that every few years one should ship this huge machine to a dealer and pay them for descaling. The time and cost of this should be factored in your decision. I wish there was a video for those of us who are technically inclined showing how to descale the machine ourselves.
I ordered a Gaggia Classic Pro a few months ago from you guys - have enjoyed making lattes every morning so much that I just ordered one of these Pro 600s from you today. Already time to upgrade! There should be a check mark when we order to have Marc sign the back of our new machines 🤣. Great video as always!
Lol! If you liked the Gaggia Classic Pro you are going to love the Pro 600 so much. It's a huge upgrade! You'll cut your latte prep time by 70% plus have rock solid brew temps. Did you go with flow control on the 600? Enjoy your new machine and thanks for your kind comment! Marc
I posted a review of this machine in November (shown in this video) and my opinion hasn't changed a bit. I love it and can't imagine ever needing to upgrade for any reason. 18g of coffee in --> awesomeness out.
@@ajvdwest To be honest, this video is way more in-depth than anything I could write. This machine doesn't do anything poorly (or less than excellently, in my opinion). There are some missing features from a higher end machine, but nothing I care about or want. As an example, I have no interest in plumbing in a machine, so the reservoir-only setup is perfect for me. This machine took any variables associated with the machine itself away, so now I have upped my game with a high-end scale, a distribution tool, and so forth to get my other variables more consistent.
I love my Pro 600! I bought mine from another retailer due to a significant difference in shipping cost. I would highly recommend this machine to anyone. I had a Expobar Office programable that I bought from WLL 16 years ago which failed after 3 years and made a deal with WLL to replace it with a refurbished Expobar Offic Lever. I had that machine for 12 years and it was great, but I wanted more steam capacity and the control that a PID machine provided. So I bought the Pro 600 and it has certainly been a great machine that produces wonderful espresso.
Marc, I notice in all your videos when you are showing off machines that do all sorts of beverages, you use different size/style cups/mugs for different drinks. Maybe you could do a video talking about the optimal mugs/cups/glasses for different types of drinks for a newbie like myself who is just getting into the game. Food for thought :)
Matt A hi, thanks for the suggestion. I need to do better and not take those newer to the game for granted. Do check out the playlist on our channel. A couple that are specifically designed for newbies - especially the quick tips! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage You are doing a great job, that's why I subscribed. These were just some basic questions that anyone that's been working with these machines and other types of coffee drinks already know. All I've ever had was just a straight Americana coffee, so I don't know anything else. I just want to make sure when I get my Academia that I have all the right glasses and such to start really diving into it. Also, for 2019 will Gaggia be releasing new versions of their line? Are there new machines in 2019 that would compete with the Academia? I won't be ready to buy one of these machines for a few months yet, so I'm trying to make the most informed decision.
Hi Matt, I do not anticipate new Gaggia machines in the Accademia class. Currently, there is the Babila which is very similar to the Accademia - maybe a more contemporary design of the front panel: www.wholelattelove.com/gaggia-babila-one-touch-coffee-and-espresso-machine Marc
Hi great video! I purchased this machine and the only thing I hate is the low water notification… unless my machine is faulty as I get no warning before I pull a shot it happens every time part way through a shot so I have to abandon the shot and top up and start again. Really gives me the rage 😅
Hi Marc, I plan to use this as my next upgrade as I think this is the perfect option for a non-plumbable machine. What I need to know is that if Baratza Sette 270Wi will be a capable enough grinder for this machine or should I definitely check out the likes of T64.
Hey Mark I purchased my pro 600 from WLL and the machine is very well made. the only thing I noticed is that in the video you state that the steam wand comes with four holes, but mine only has two. love the machine any ways!
Hi DD, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Pro 600 and of course your patronage! So this video is an older one - since being made Profitec changed the steam tip. Marc
Hi Mark, I enjoyed watching your video. I bought a Profitec Pro 600 a month ago. It came with a 2 holes steam wand tip. As you mentioned in your video, 4 holes is better than 2 holes. Can you tell where can I purchase one. I am in Canada. Thank you.
Comparing the Profitec Pro 500 & 600 (both PID): Do you think there is a big difference, when the same drink is made on the machines, meaning, is the quality of the shot the same as well as the microfoam such that one cannot taste/see any difference? Thanks alot for your help, Marc!
@whole latte love: an answer here would be greatly appreciated. Also... a comparison of the temperature stability of the brew group would be also amazing! Cheers :)
Hi Mark! I love watching your reviews! Could you help me out: I am coming from a Rocket Appartamento (nice machine) but would like better steam pressure and better ability to deal with dialing in new coffees (flow control - available for all 3 profitec machine correct?). Will the heat exchanger Pro500 suffice for me? Will the Pro600 give me better steam being a dual boiler? Will the Pro700 give me any better value or functionality assuming I don’t plan to plumb the machine? Thanks, Andreas
Hi Andreas, Thanks for the questions and your kind comments! Flow control is available on all Profitec machines with E61 group. If you really want to bump up the steam power the 600 or 700 is the way to go. The 500, 600 and 700 are all PID brew temp controlled a drantaic improvement in brew temp accuracy over the Appartamento. The Pro 600 and Pro 700 feature best in class steaming power capable of running at near 2 bar of pressure in the service boiler. The 500 does fine but as a heat exchange boiler machine increasing the boiler temp for higher steam power results in higher brew temps and it maxes out at about 1.4 bar. Beyond plumbability, the key differences between the 600 and 700 are the rotary pump in the 700 vs. vibration pump in the 600 and larger boilers in the 700. Rotary pumps have a higher potential flow rate of about 11g/s. Vibration pump machines run at about 8g/s. In my experience higher flow rates are beneficial when using darker roasted beans or beans beyond peak freshness. The rotary pump is quieter. Both machines can make drinks rapidly back to back but if you anticipate steaming larger amounts of milk the 700 has more reserve. I hope that helps in your decision. Marc
Hi JJP, Thanks for the kind comment and question! For best results with the Pro 600 I recommend an espresso focused grinder with flat burrs at least 50mm in size. The Eureka Mignon Specialita is a good choice with 55mm burrs, 2 timed presets or manual grinding in a compact package. A step up are the Ceado E5Pro or E6P. Both use larger 64mm burrs and featured mostly machined components while some Mignon components are forged. The E5Pro is manual with no timed presets. The E6P has 2 timed presets plus manual grinding. Hope that helps! Marc Eureka Mignon Specilita has tons of color options: www.wholelattelove.com/search?q=specialita Ceado E5Pro: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e5-pro-espresso-grinder Ceado E6P: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e6p-electronic-dosing-grinder-v2
Ah, I wish (and maybe someday) .. but please keep showing the machines that I can't afford! I think I have narrowed my choice down to an Office Lever Plus or a Brewtus IV-P, just can't decide if I really need dual boilers, but plumbing is a real option.
GS Jester Office lever is one of the best bang for the buck machines. If in for the long game a plumbed machine is a wonderful machine. And ps. We helped design it. Not as refined as Profitec/ECM machines but very capable! Marc
Hi Mark, thanks for the great video! I have 2 questions. Is it true that pressure on vibra machines must be (2bar) higher than on rota? Because Vibra have pulsating pressure. And the second question - I dont like combination of chrome and black on pro 600. Is it possible to get side panels in chrome? Thanks!!!
Hi AB, Thanks for the questions. We set vibration pump machines OPV to produce 10 bar on a machine pressure gauge with a backflush (blind) basket in the PF. That gets you max 9 bar at the group. Rotary pumps with higher flow rates (11g/s vs. 8g/s on vib) are set to 9 bar on the machine gauge which gets you 9 at the group. Pro 600 panels... We only have black but they can be switched out by end user. Hope that helps! Marc
Great review! Will you review the Lelit Bianca? That has got to be the most bang for buck considering it´s a flow profiling machine for about 1850 english pounds, here in Europe anyway!
Hi venwin25, You are welcome! Thanks for the question. It's about 15 minutes for the machine to fully heat up. That's been my experience and Profitec's recommendation. A little faster than some other DB machines as the steam boiler is smaller at 1L. For comparison the steam boiler on the Pro 700 is 2L. Marc
hi, can you tell something about energy consumption and how much energy you save when temporarily switching off the steam boiler when not needed? How would consumption compare to for example a Bezzera Magica?
Hi VV, Thanks for the question. A lot of variables involved in power consumption. If not using the steam boiler I would turn it off - will save power! Marc
can you fill the tank without removing it? i mean, just use a pitcher of water to pour into the tank, or is that not recommended?? I cant use it if I have to remove the tank to refill, no clearance under cabinets for that.
Hey Mike, thanks for the question. The Pro 600 is an excellent value in dual boiler machines. If you compare the 600 to the Bianca up close the 600 has a higher build quality.
Hi, Marc, thanks for the excellent video. Do you need a 20A wall socket for the power source or is 15A source enough? What would be the maximum wattage of the machine when you use the two boilers, brewing and steaming, at the same time?
Hi James, You are welcome and thanks for the question. Maximum draw of the machine is 1400 watts which equals ~11.5amps. The machine is setup so heating elements will not operate simultaneously. 15A circuit should be sufficient but 20A is recommended. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc - I question your reply - firstly the label behind the drip tray says 2400w. Secondly, if only one element operates at any given time, it would not be possible to pull a shot and steam at the same time! Can you please clarify?
Hey Mark, love your videos! I recently bought this machine and was wondering on how to descale it but I can't seem to find any Information about this on the internet. The manual says to bring it to a service center but on the Pro 500 and 700 it has instructions for descaling. Do you know why that is? My retailer told me it's fine to just descale it like any other machine but I'm really hesitant since I don't find any information about this online. I have fairly hard water (~20 dhg -> some german index which stands for "german level of hardness" so you probably don't know what that means but just as a reference) and I'm using a BWT pad to reduce the hardness and it does come down to 5-8 dhg. It's not too bad but I think it would still be good to descale it every once in a while or not? Does it have something to do with the boilers being made out of stainless steel? Thanks in advance!
Hi FV, Thanks for the kind words on the videos! Manufacturers generally advise against home users descaling dual boiler machines due to the risk of scale particles dislodging and plugging up other parts of the machine and because draining the boilers is more involved than on machines with HX or single boilers. Scale plugging during descaling generally happens only with neglected machines. Like a machine used in a hard water environment for a long period with no water treatment to reduce hardness and no regular descaling. At 20 degrees German your water is rather hard so you're doing the right thing using the BWT Bestsave pad filter. Be sure and replace the pad on schedule and that water in reservoir has enough residence time in reservoir before use. If using the pad filter properly you should have little to no scale forming. Stainless boilers can be descaled. After some use, you can get an idea on whether scale is occurring by removing the mushroom valve and inspecting for evidence of scale. I don't recommend home users descale dual boilers. That because I'll say go ahead and do it and somebody with a neglected machine will have problems brought on by descaling and blame me. With all that, If someone is 100% certain they don't have anything beyond very light scale - like next to none then descaling should not be a problem. In your shoes I'd talk to your retailer and get their recommended procedure for descaling the machine. There are many ways to do it, but if you run into trouble they might be somewhat accountable if you run into a problem and you followed their procedure. In our shop, boilers are generally removed for descaling but that's mostly for machines which have been neglected and show evidence of more aggressive scale deposits. Hope that helps. Marc
I’m considering this or the Pro 500. I’m thinking the thermal energy available should be higher with a 2l high temperature boiler than a 1l high temperature plus a 0,75l low temperature boiler. So the back-to-back shot capacity should be greater. Or am I missing something?
Hi Arvid, Thanks for the question. Don't forget in a DB machine like the 600 each boiler has its own heating element. The Pro 500 has a single element. The 600 can run at higher steam pressure in it's service boiler - up to ~2 bar. Also, changing the pressure/temperature of the service boiler has no impact on brew temps. On the 500 if you adjust the PID for a lower brew temp you also decrease pressure/temp in the main steam producing section of the boiler. Marc
Hi Marc. Thanks for the video review. How is the quality of the espresso shots in the 600? Can you compare the quality of the espresso shots on the pro 600 compared to the pro 700 and ECM synchronica- all other variables equal ? I’m down to choosing between these three machines. I plan to use water reservoir only (not plumbed).
Hi KQ, Sorry for the delayed response! Bummer you don't want to plumb! Plumbing the Pro 700 or Synchronika gets you the line pressure pre-infusion which opens up the next level of brewing. Also can help make shots more consistent as pre-infusing can reduce channeling thru the puck. If you didn't already know the 700 and Synchronika have identical brewing systems. So no difference in potential shot quality. The 600's brewing system is nearly identical to the others with same boiler and hydraulics to the group. Big difference with 600 is vibration pump with a rotary pump in the others and no plumbability so no pre-infusion. All can do pre-wetting of the coffee when working of reservoir dropping an once or so of water on the puck from group and residual pressure in boiler. If not plumbing all are IMO capable of comparable shot quality. There are some opinions on rotary vs.vibe pump shots but it's incredibly subjective. Vibe pumps build up pressure slower. Rotary pumps may be a little more consistent with pressure. Changing grind and/or technique can cancel out any advantages of one over the other. At the end of the day I prefer rotary pump machines. They are robust and have a more pleasing sound than vibe pumps. Marc
Hey Mark! After watching this vid, as well as your vids on flow control... I'm leaning towards ordering the Profitec Pro 600 w/ Flow Control. Watching your vids leads me to 3 questions? Does the Pro 600 w/ Flow Control still have the 2 bars of pressure for steaming just like the one in this vid? On WLL the Pro 600 w/ Flow Control shows a 2 tip wand, unlike the 4 tip wand in your vid here, does this mean I'm required to purchase 4 steam tip separately? And is there anything else that is potentially different between the Flow Control model and the one in this vid that may not be immediately obvious? Lastly, are there ever sales on WLL for these models? I've seen Rocket's go on sale, but I'm leaning towards Profitec for Flow Control + Steam Power.
Hi Jeremy, Thanks for the questions! The current Pro 600 does have the same best in class steaming power at about 2 bar in the service boiler. I believe the current 600 has a 2 hole steam tip - unfortunately I cannot quickly confirm that is the case. If you want the 4 hole and it comes with the 2 you would have to purchase the 4 hole but it's not required. The only difference with flow control 600 is the mushroom valve and the E61 mounted pressure gauge. Sales on these models are incredibly rare. We do offer "Latte Rewards" which I think on the 600 gets you $50 towards a future purchase, free shipping and 3 year warranty. I don't get involved in the sales aspect of these machines. But, you can def call our coffee experts 585-924-7170 for details. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for your reply. I ended up calling and talking with one of the sales reps who put together a really great package deal for me to get everything I wanted plus a nice discount. Looking forward to receiving my machine in the next week or so.
Oh hi Marc, Two questions. Any grinder/machine packages going to exist on the 600? Looking to make the plunge into the prosumer world. Would this unit be too complicated for someone with no experience? I'm trying to avoid the urge to upgrade to a nicer machine.
Hi JK, Love the Oh hi Marc! My kids say that all the time :) Contact us here: www.wholelattelove.com/contact-us And I'm sure a package can be worked out. The Profitec Pro T64 grinder in the video is perfect with this machine. As far as too complicated... What a dual boiler machine gets you is far less complication than a single boiler machine. Brew temps are always accurate and there's no screwing around with surfing temps like you'd have on a single boiler. Plus steam is always available and gosh darn powerful on this one. If you have not done manual steaming before there is a learning curve to that but it's far, far better than what you'll get on cheap entry level appliances. If you want to go nicer the best options are the Pro 700 or next level finishing of the ECM Synchronika. Marc
Hey Marc. How does the Pro 600 do with back to back shots? If we were to make five or six in a row, for example, what would the reasonable rebound time between them be? If I spent 30’seconds or whatever steaming milk between them, would the machine be ready to go? I don’t love the look of the black side panels, but the 600 seems to be a decent compromise in price between the 500 and 700.
Hi James, Thanks for the question. Have to be honest I have not tested rapid fire back to back shots on the Pro 600 but in theory IMO it will be fine. Brew boiler is 25oz and you'll be taking about 3-4oz out for a double shot. It has a 1000 watt element. Between that and the mass of boiler plus group one would expect relatively quick rebound. Marc
Hi Mark, I am reading many things about coffee flavours, how to better achieve the best from coffee etc. I always wondered, is it worth it to spend 2k euro for a machine like this ( a part from the esthetic obviously )?
Hi Leonida, If serious about espresso they are worth it. These machines are beautiful and built to run for decades. Making exceptional espresso is all about controlling variables like brew temp, pressure, coffee dose and grind. That's what machines at this level can do. There are espresso appliances which cost far less. Many use undersized pressurized filter basket brewing systems which are incapable of the same quality. They have poor control of brew temp and pressure, cannot brew and froth milk at the same time and have a build quality that'll put them in the garbage within a few years. Marc
So you are saying that, if I'd buy Breville Barista Express, even if I don't care of brewing and frothing milk at the same time, even if with Barista u can have control of pressure, grind size and timing, this machine ( a part from how amazing it looks ) it's still worth it despite the difference in price, for the consistency it offers and the years of work it can sustain. Am I right?@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for the time u spend in replying
Hey Mark, As always, great video. A question about steam pressure on this machine... How far do you have to turn the steam knob to achieve full steam pressure output on the 600 vs. 700? I hear on the 600 it’s 1 or more full rotations, whereas on the (2019) 700, it’s a mere quarter turn? Also does that rotation amount change on these machines if you’ve set the PID for the steam boiler at 1.5 vs. 2 bar? Thoughts? Thanks!
Hi Christopher, Thanks for the questions. Both machines have "sprung" valves. There was a recent upgrade to the 700 valves so down to about a quarter turn from off to full open. Valves on 600 are under one full turn from off to full open. I'd say between 1/2 and 3/4. With higher pressure setting you will get more steam with same valve opening but more pressure does not change the amount of turn required to go from closed to open. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi, I’m a true novice. I finally figured out grinding etc to get right amount. I softened my water, put it in the water basket/ holder on my profitec 600, turned on my machine, the PID read 115....and the went to ‘FIL’. I tried turning on and off several times, but the same. I pulled the lever up, but some cold water came out from the center, not the steam or water spout. Can you advise? Psyched to get going!
Hi Charles, Sounds like the machine needs to go through filling the boiler startup routine. Here's the procedure from page 23 of the manual: 5.1 Fill Mode On the PID-display will be signed “Fill”. This is for filling the coffee boiler. To fill the coffee boiler, position the brew lever upwards for at least 30 seconds at a time. The coffee boiler and the steam / hotwater boiler are now filled. The sign “Fill” must be expire after filling 30 seconds. If there is still a pump noise, the filling of the steam/ hot water boiler is still being completed. 1. If the pump stops and the PID display turns off while the boilers are filled, you have to refill fresh water in the water tank. 2. If there is enough water in the water tank again, the pump starts to operate again. 3. As soon as both boilers are filled with water, the pump will become quiet. Both boilers are now being heated in succession whereby the coffee boiler has priority. 4. The PID display will show the current temperatures of both boilers alternately (see chapter 3.3). 5. The machine is ready for coffee preparation as soon as the PID display indicates the pre-set nominal temperature of 93°C (199,4 °F factory setting). The machine is ready for steam/ hot water dispension as soon as the PID display indicates the pre-set nominal temperature of 129°C (264,2 °F factory setting) or the boiler pressure gauge indicates a value of about 1.5 bars. 6. Manual boiler venting is not necessary because the PRO 600 contains a professional anti-vacuum valve, which automatically vents the boiler during the heat-up phase. 7. The machine is now ready for use If needed here's a link to the PDF of the complete Pro 600 machine manual: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/3/3b/Profitec_Pro_600_User_Manual.pdf Hope that helps! Should you need further assistance contact our tech support here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us Marc
Hi Mark, Please explain if may I upgrade P600 with special valve on top öffentlich group to manually change flow? Do P600 offer electronic settings of preinfusuon time?
Hi Marc, do you know if there will be upgrade for 2019 model of the 600 like thoses on the 700 (Ergonomic wear free rotary valve)? I like those on the 700. My Breville Dual-boiler is in repair (did 7 years with it, not bad but selenoid valve is to replace with group head as 3 out of 4 screw broke into it...) I’m looking to upgrade this year. So far I’m looking into the 600, 700 and also the bezzera duo DE. I’m affraid of the space needed from the 700 on the countertop vs my current Breville though. Would love to see a side to side size compare.
Hi M, Sorry for delayed response - a little sick the last couple of days. Anyway, here's a link to video of the 600 and 700 side by side: ua-cam.com/video/bB0eg0hG638/v-deo.html The 600 has sprung valves like the 700. Seven years is a good run for a Breville DB. It's a fine product but more appliance than machine. You'll find the 600 and 700 are very user serviceable. The Bezzera is a little more complex. Marc
Hi Mark, if you are using the pro 600 vs the pro 500 to pull a shot and steam milk at the same time what’s the difference in temperature stability between the two machines and would it make a big difference in the taste of the shot? I guess another way to ask it is, if you’re using the 500 to steam and pull a shot the same time how much does the temperature fluctuate and will that be evident in the shot?
Hi Levi, Love the name. My first grandson is named Levi! Really not much difference at all in stability. Only using about 3oz/90ml of water out of the heat exchange section of the Pro 500. The brewing system has a large thermal mass between exiting the boiler and the moving thru the E61 group. Not enough time for temp to drop enough in the boiler from steaming to affect brew temp. I think it would be very difficult to detect any difference in the shot.Marc
Hi Marc, I'm owner of a Pro 600. I'm intersted in PID calibration. Do you have custom PID setting at WLL for this machine. Especially I'm intersted in brew temperatur offset (E1) as there is much discussion about calibrating this offset. If you have, will your settings differ from mine because I'm from europe -> 230V voltage Best regards Cord
Hi Cord, Thanks for the question. We do not have a custom setting for the brew boiler offset. We leave as set by Profitec. In my experience there is little reason to change unless your machine is operating outside of typical room temperatures. Ambient temps can have an affect as the E61 acts as a heat sink. Not too long ago I did a test where I held a wet rag on an E61 group for about 10 seconds then quickly did a Scace brew temp test. That 10 seconds of wet rag on the group dropped the Scace temps by ~10F. Now a wet rag pulls out a lot more heat than air but operating a machine in a 60F room vs an 85F room is sure to make a difference in actual temps in the group. On a side note be very careful going into those technical PID settings. Not a big deal to change the brew boiler offset if you know what you're doing but things can get weird if you change the P, I or D settings. Marc
Hi naomi, Thanks for the question. Since this video was made in January Profitec changed to shipping the Pro 600 with a 2 hole tip as described in the specifications of this page: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine You can inquire about availability of a 4 hole accessory tip with our customer support dept. at 585-924-7170
I'm considering the Pro 500. I know it's not a dual boiler machine, but a heat exchanger machine. How does it compare to this 600? It's for home use, 2 to 4 shots per day on average. I know in heat exchangers, I need to flush the system to flush those too hot water out. Besides that, is there any downsides, as both uses vibration pump? Need info on performance, reliability, etc. I've read reviews even the 500 series has very consistent temperature with the help of PID. Can I adjust the brew pressure intl the 500 like this 600 one shown? To always brew at 9 bar?
Hi WK, Thanks for the question. As the Pro 500 is PID temp controlled it does not need a cooling flush as you would in non-PID HX machines. What the 600 gets you is even greater brew temp stability with a dedicated boiler. Also has more steam power than the 500 as it runs at about 2bar of pressure inn the steam boiler. Marc
Hi Aurelio, Thanks for the comment. Both are fine machines. Size is nearly identical as the Pro 600 is built on the same chassis as the 500. If doing more milk drinks I recommend the 600 for the extra bump in steaming power. Let me know if you have any more questions. Or, you can speak directly with our coffee/espresso experts by phone/chat/email: www.wholelattelove.com/contact-us Marc
Hi Mazen, Thank you for the comment. If you go to this page and scroll down to videos a bunch of videos on the Brewtus with comparisons to a variety of machines: www.wholelattelove.com/expobar-brewtus-iv-r-with-rotary-pump Marc
Hi Anel, Thanks for the question. Rocket Espresso makes decent machines. Prices vary in markets around the world but in general for similar feature set Profitec machines are lower in price than comparable Rocket's. Regardless of machine, I give Profitec a slight edge in overall quality while Rocket is heavier on the branding of their machines. Good example is comparing the Profitec Pro 400 to the Rocket Appartamento. In US market the Pro 400 runs ~$250 less than the Appartamento. The Pro 400 has 3 level temperature control while the Rocket is single temp controlled by pressure stat with larger temperature fluctuations. Check them out here: Profitec Pro 400: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-400-espresso-machine Rocket Appartamento: www.wholelattelove.com/products/rocket-espresso-appartamento-with-black-panels Hope that helps! Marc
Hi GO! The Pro 500 is one of my favorite HX boiler PID machines. The Pro 600 takes you to dual boilers and best in class steaming power with up to ~2 bar. With individual boilers you can adjust steam boiler temp/pressure without changing the brew temp as you would on the 500. If that's important to you then answer is yes. Marc
Can you please comment on the steam volume in boilers and steaming capacities. in particular, the comparison between the profitec 500 with 2L boiler plus 2+ Ltr reservoir for coffee... vs dual boiler of 0,75 Ltr + 1Ltr steam boiler in the 600, which would run out of "steam" when making cappucinos in a line? and any test of how many cups of cappucinos before either runs out of steam?
Hi r, Thanks for the question. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of the Pro 500 and 600 including current pricing: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NTk5MzY1MDIzNSwxNTQ2MDQxMDk4Mjk5 While the 500 has a larger boiler it runs at a lower pressure than the 600 which features best in class steaming power running at ~2 bar max compared to the 500 with ~1.4 bar max. Recovery after steaming milk for a cappuccino is fast on both machines - they'd be back up to full steam pressure well before you'd be finished pouring milk for the cappuccino, grinding/tamping/loading for the next shot and refilling your milk pitcher. Understand neither machine is intended for commercial use. If steaming large amounts of milk rapidly back to back for extended periods you may eventually see a small drop in pressure but not something I've tested as it's not an intended use. Marc
Marc, can you provide some information as to the pros/cons or advantages/disadvantages of a 1L steam boiler (Pro 600) vs. the 2L steam boiler on the Pro 700? I am looking for the best value purchase. I am upgrading from a Silvia and looking to pull consistently good shots of espresso and also be able to steam Soy Milk with good results. I have considered the Synchronika and Pro 700, but given that I have no experience with Prosumer machines I am concerned with how to make a decision which offers me the best value. I should also add that I only make 2 cappuccino's a day for my wife and I. So, 4 pulled shots a day. Thanks!
Hi Michael, The larger steam boiler boiler gives you more steaming capacity and faster recovery to full boiler temp after steaming. Honestly though if doing 2 cappuccino a day the 1 liter boiler in the 600 will not hold you back in any way. The brew boiler in the 600, 700 and Synchronika is the same. Only difference is the pump. 600 is vibration (like the Silvia) other are rotary. 600 is reservoir fed only while the others can be plumbed or reservoir fed. Unless you want to plumb your machine or want the smooth sound of rotary pump the 600 will serve your needs IMO. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions and I'd be happy to answer. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the response. It makes perfect sense. A few other questions: I am looking for something that will be durable and not require any maintenance outside the home, unless it literally breaks. I know that is difficult, and outside maintenance is always a possibility, but I want to mitigate that risk as much as I can. Would something like the Pro 700 or Synchronika be more durable, or less durable, or the same as the Pro 600? Things like the pump type maybe? I have also considered the Linea Mini (much more expensive I know) due to it's simpler design and commercial parts but I am not sure if the extra cost is justified for someone like me. Also, you talk about line infusion on the Synchronika and I like that idea. I just don't know if I need it. In general I don't really care about plumbing in but would be willing if it resulted in better coffee. In general I like the idea of pre-infusion. The Lelit Bianca looks nice but it isn't widely available and that concerns me. Anyway, I really am asking if the Pro 600 has the same characteristics as the 700 and Synchronika in terms of durability and maintenance. Thanks again for the response and for your great reviews. It is much appreciated.
The Pro 600 does have the same durability as the 700. As to maintenance, if you want trouble free operation the single most important thing is feeding a machine good water that will not cause scale. Scale is the number one problem for any machine. The guys who design Profitec machines come from a service background so simple, reliable and easy to service is important to them. It's an attribute which has propelled their machines to some of the most highly regarded in the field. LM machines are well regarded but when they need service it can be tough and they are not as user serviceable as Profitec/ECM machines. Not everyone needs line pressure pre-infusion. But if your coffee journey takes you places like high-end single origin coffees you may find yourself wanting it. Plumbing a machine makes it very easy to provide excellent no-scale water quality with an in-line filter system like this: www.wholelattelove.com/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package No scale and pressure control. If you go with a reservoir machine like the 600 do treat your water with an in tank pad filter or ion-exchange pitcher. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks again for your response. Since I roast my own coffee and only drink Organic coffee, my choices for beans are limited. So, the world of Single Origin Coffees, which if I understand it correctly means the beans come from the same farm, and often the same tree, is probably out of reach for me. If I understand you then the pre-infusion would be less valuable in terms of its impact on taste. So, my real choice is between a machine like the LMLM, which LM says is serviceable exclusively in my home, or something like the Pro 600 which if it really broke might have to be shipped to you for servicing. I don't really care about plumbing in, unless it would have a dramatic effect on the taste. And, where I live the water is soft and we have never had scale issues. I confirmed this with my Town water people. But, we still take precautions like using Brita pitchers for now, and maybe someday in the future getting a below the sink filter system to get the Brita pitchers off of the counter. Thanks again for the help. Michael
Alexander Lee steam boiler is smaller, less detail in casework, 600 is not plumbable so no line pressure preinfusion , vibration pump instead of rotary. Marc
Hi B, Thanks for the request. Many Scace tests off camera with same result. Brew temp is solid. I have not removed the connection to group to look for a restrictor. I'll check with out service techs. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks marc, when you say brew temp is solid, what are the numbers and if there are any peaks? e.g if you were pulling a 1:2 shot or 1:1.5 shot whats the starting temp and if it peaks whats that temp and finally the ending temp. Trying to decide if the HX hump is diminished with this kit or not! cheers.
I've had my Profitec 600 from WLL for only a few months, and I've noticed the steam valve is very squeaky (super loud). Is that normal? Or is this something that needs to be fixed to keep my machine safe?
Hi JJ, Thanks for the question and please excuse my delayed response - I've been on vacation and offline for a week. Quickest way to support for your machine is a call to our tech support pros. Contact info here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us Squeaking can happen but I would not say it's normal. It may be an indication of scaling or wear in the valve components but hard to say for sure. Regardless of cause it's highly unlikely your machine is unsafe! Here's a link to an expanded diagram of the Pro 600: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/e/ed/PRO_600_Parts_Diagram.pdf Exploded view of valve is shown in drawing 6. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the reply Marc! I located your video on how to remove the handles from the steam valve. After doing so, I used a little food safe oil to lubricate the threading of the handles and that solved the issue. It looks like there was just too much friction on the threading. Back in business with no squeaking now!
Hey Marc thanks for your very interesting videos and helping advises. I proud owner of a new pro 600. Compared to my old e61HX machine I have the feeling that the pro 600 needs longer time for stable group temp @ about 1h. You had I nice measurement data compare group heat up times of pro 500vs bz10 vs Giotto. Do have such group temp measurement for the heat up of pro600 as well for me to compare? Is it possible with new machines that there remain s particals from the production process within thermo cycle of e61 which may slow down the heat up process? Best regards Cord
Hi 84cord, Thanks for the comment and question. An hour for full heating to stable seems very long! While HX machines might heat a bit faster due to the higher temps in boiler. It should not take an hour on a Pro 600 if everything is operating properly. I think it's unlikely there are left over particles from production but it's not out of the question. I've been to Profitec's production facility in Italy and every machine is tested after building. If you purchased the machine from us it was prepped again with full test of temp/flow prior to shipping. You could check flow rate from the group to verify. With no PF in place and machine warmed up measure how much water you get in milliliters from the group in 20 seconds. Divide volume by 20 to get grams per second. It should be in a range of ~8-12g/s. If below 8g/s there may be an obstruction. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hey Marc, thanks for your fast reply. I measured exact 7,4g/s for several times. Do you think this is still acceptable or should I contact Profitec? Best regards Cord
84cord let me check flow rate on a pro 600 here. I may have made a slight error and given you flow rate reference more typical for a rotary pump machine and not vibration pump like 600
Hi 84cord, Just ran 3 flow tests. Ran pump for 20 seconds and weighed water output. Results were 163g, 164g and 160g for flow rates of 8.2g/s, 8.2g/s and 8g/s. While your rate is .6g/s slower I doubt that is enough to indicate any restriction in the thermosiphon. Your rate difference from mine could be measuring error. I doubt it has anything to do with a longer heat up time. Are you 100% certain your machine is taking 60 minutes to reach stable temp? For faster heatup of the brew boiler you could turn off the steam boiler as described on page 25 of the Pro 600 manual: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/3/3b/Profitec_Pro_600_User_Manual.pdf Another tactic for faster heatup is running blank shots thru the brew circuit Marc
Hi Timothy, Thanks for the question. The 600 has larger boilers (same brew boiler used in the Pro 700), E61 brew group and much higher working steam pressure. The brew boiler in the 300 is low volume and mounted over the group. On the 600 brewing is controled via the lever of the E61 group. On the 300 it's a switch to start/stop brewing. More specs and videos about the 300 available here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/all/products/profitec-pro-300-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Samefor the 600 is located here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions! Marc
I have the same dilemma. I am sold on the build quality of Profitec, just not sure if the 600 is worth the upgrade. I think the 600 gives me (1) a nicer looking machine; (2) sprung valves; and (3) greater steam capability. I never was too clear on how the different brew groups might affect shot quality. Am I missing anything else? Thanks!!
Hi AN, Yes it is possible. Then there are machines like this which have that feature out of the box: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-de-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Even has adjustable color highlighting of clear panels on sides of machine. Marc
This machine is a couple hundred bucks too much for that size of steam boiler. The specs are basically identical to the Quick Mill QM67 Evo and 20 secs to steam 6oz is on the slow side which is on par with the QM which people complain is a slow steamer.
Gustavo Sanchez the QM67 build quality does not look like the Profitec. Look for under the hood picture of both and compare how component are laid out and assembled, that speak for itself... Also QM67 use cooper boiler vs stainless on profitec. My personal taste goes to quality vs just the lowest price.
I want this and my wife wants the breville oracle touch. I even offered to wake up and make her the drink, but alas I will be a breville oracle owner soon. Booo
Hi TC, I feel for you as I live your situation! Happy wife = happy life. Maybe mention you get to choose the next one? At some point the Breville appliance will fail and a repair will not be worth the cost. The Pro 600 is a machine built to a much higher standard. Very easy DIY repairs - it's reasonable to expect decades of service from machine grade products. The Breville will have been in the dump for a long time by then! Marc
Hi V, this screen type is very common on espresso machines and used by many manufacturers. It's lower cost, durable and gets the job done - a K.I.S.S. part. There are some machines out there using more advanced touchscreens like the Bezzera Matrix: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-de-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Marc
Hi Aj, The video includes test results like time to steam to temp and boiler recovery after steaming. I'm fairly certain no other video on this machine goes into details like the stainless mushroom valve (by the way far better than chromed valves in some competing machines). The video covers specs and features like extra functions available via the PID controller and how to use them. I mention the casework is nice but you can have better in the Pro 700 or Synchronika if that's important to you. I mention the machine is not plumbable. Do you want me to say that's a fault? For some it could be. For others it's not. I mention the machine has no internal venting of moisture with the steam boiler vacuum relief valve vented to the drip tray. Many competing machines leave this open and vent moisture internally every time the machine warms up. I show you the machine and you can make up your own mind. I stand behind everything I say. I could have gone further and told you how Profitec goes into extra details in finishing the machine. Like the internal welded seams of the drip tray which are polished. Many competing machines simply spot weld these parts and leave the welds bare. Or talk about the chassis design which has a continuous solid rail front to back. Many competing machines weld on the drip tray support which leave them susceptible to damage in shipping. If I sound like I'm a fan of this machine it's because I am. I've worked with and been under the hood of most every prosumer level domestic machine currently available in the US market. IMO this machine and others by Profitec stand out with reliable K.I.S.S. design, innovations like the stainless mushroom and best in class steam power. It's up to you if you want to see it as a sales pitch. If there's something else you'd like to know about the Pro 600 please ask here and it would be my pleasure to provide you with a detailed answer. Marc
Hi Mark! Thanks for the indepth review. I recently upgraded to the Profitec 600 from a Gaggia Classic and I am loving the consistent taste of my shots now. I'm also having fun trying to get the right microfoam for latte art!
In the video, you state the steam pressure gets up to 2 bars when you set it at 272 degrees. I have mine set at 267 degrees and get from 1 to 1.5 bars steam pressure. I make 3-4 lattes in the morning. Do you recommend I change my steam boiler temperature to 272?
I have had my brew boiler set to 199 degrees...maybe I'll set it to 200 degrees to match yours and see if I notice any taste differences!
Hi Lisa, Thank you for the comment! Coming from the Classic you've got to love the ability to brew and steam simultaneously and the rock solid brew temps.
My steam boiler is set to 270F (that's t2 on the PID control) which is max setting. Not unusual to see the display indicate 272 now and then. There is some variation in pressure/temperature relationship based on altitude above sea level. Raising your t2 to 270 will increase the steam power. Personally I like the extra power and I recommend you give it a try. If you feel it's too much you can always dial it back.
Marc
I purchased this machine from WLL and I like it very much! One thing that prospective buyers should keep in mind is that the manual says that one should not descale the machine oneself because descaling requires partial disassembly of the machine. This means that every few years one should ship this huge machine to a dealer and pay them for descaling. The time and cost of this should be factored in your decision. I wish there was a video for those of us who are technically inclined showing how to descale the machine ourselves.
@@nothingbutlove3449 my understanding is that distilled water is not ideal for brewing coffee and it may also damage your machine by corroding it.
I ordered a Gaggia Classic Pro a few months ago from you guys - have enjoyed making lattes every morning so much that I just ordered one of these Pro 600s from you today. Already time to upgrade!
There should be a check mark when we order to have Marc sign the back of our new machines 🤣. Great video as always!
Lol! If you liked the Gaggia Classic Pro you are going to love the Pro 600 so much. It's a huge upgrade! You'll cut your latte prep time by 70% plus have rock solid brew temps. Did you go with flow control on the 600? Enjoy your new machine and thanks for your kind comment!
Marc
I posted a review of this machine in November (shown in this video) and my opinion hasn't changed a bit. I love it and can't imagine ever needing to upgrade for any reason. 18g of coffee in --> awesomeness out.
Hi Matt, Thanks for sharing your opinion of the Pro 600 - it's appreciated! Very helpful for others considering a purchase!
Marc
Where is your review posted? This is more a sales pitch, would love to see an actual review..
@@ajvdwest To be honest, this video is way more in-depth than anything I could write. This machine doesn't do anything poorly (or less than excellently, in my opinion). There are some missing features from a higher end machine, but nothing I care about or want. As an example, I have no interest in plumbing in a machine, so the reservoir-only setup is perfect for me. This machine took any variables associated with the machine itself away, so now I have upped my game with a high-end scale, a distribution tool, and so forth to get my other variables more consistent.
I love my Pro 600! I bought mine from another retailer due to a significant difference in shipping cost. I would highly recommend this machine to anyone. I had a Expobar Office programable that I bought from WLL 16 years ago which failed after 3 years and made a deal with WLL to replace it with a refurbished Expobar Offic Lever. I had that machine for 12 years and it was great, but I wanted more steam capacity and the control that a PID machine provided. So I bought the Pro 600 and it has certainly been a great machine that produces wonderful espresso.
I bought it together with the grender T64 to weeks a go.
We are very satisfied. the machine is easy to deal with, even for my wife
Hi jv, Pro 600 and T64 is a fine combo! Thanks for sharing your experience.
Marc
Marc, I notice in all your videos when you are showing off machines that do all sorts of beverages, you use different size/style cups/mugs for different drinks. Maybe you could do a video talking about the optimal mugs/cups/glasses for different types of drinks for a newbie like myself who is just getting into the game. Food for thought :)
Matt A hi, thanks for the suggestion. I need to do better and not take those newer to the game for granted. Do check out the playlist on our channel. A couple that are specifically designed for newbies - especially the quick tips!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage You are doing a great job, that's why I subscribed. These were just some basic questions that anyone that's been working with these machines and other types of coffee drinks already know. All I've ever had was just a straight Americana coffee, so I don't know anything else. I just want to make sure when I get my Academia that I have all the right glasses and such to start really diving into it. Also, for 2019 will Gaggia be releasing new versions of their line? Are there new machines in 2019 that would compete with the Academia? I won't be ready to buy one of these machines for a few months yet, so I'm trying to make the most informed decision.
Hi Matt, I do not anticipate new Gaggia machines in the Accademia class. Currently, there is the Babila which is very similar to the Accademia - maybe a more contemporary design of the front panel: www.wholelattelove.com/gaggia-babila-one-touch-coffee-and-espresso-machine
Marc
Hi great video! I purchased this machine and the only thing I hate is the low water notification… unless my machine is faulty as I get no warning before I pull a shot it happens every time part way through a shot so I have to abandon the shot and top up and start again. Really gives me the rage 😅
Hi Marc, I plan to use this as my next upgrade as I think this is the perfect option for a non-plumbable machine. What I need to know is that if Baratza Sette 270Wi will be a capable enough grinder for this machine or should I definitely check out the likes of T64.
Hey Mark I purchased my pro 600 from WLL and the machine is very well made. the only thing I noticed is that in the video you state that the steam wand comes with four holes, but mine only has two. love the machine any ways!
Hi DD, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Pro 600 and of course your patronage! So this video is an older one - since being made Profitec changed the steam tip.
Marc
Hi Mark, I enjoyed watching your video. I bought a Profitec Pro 600 a month ago. It came with a 2 holes steam wand tip. As you mentioned in your video, 4 holes is better than 2 holes. Can you tell where can I purchase one. I am in Canada. Thank you.
Very informative as usual Mark 👍
Hi AMM, Thanks for the comment!
What a dream machine. One day!
Hi T, It's very nice!
Marc
Comparing the Profitec Pro 500 & 600 (both PID): Do you think there is a big difference, when the same drink is made on the machines, meaning, is the quality of the shot the same as well as the microfoam such that one cannot taste/see any difference? Thanks alot for your help, Marc!
@whole latte love: an answer here would be greatly appreciated. Also... a comparison of the temperature stability of the brew group would be also amazing!
Cheers :)
Hi Mark! I love watching your reviews! Could you help me out: I am coming from a Rocket Appartamento (nice machine) but would like better steam pressure and better ability to deal with dialing in new coffees (flow control - available for all 3 profitec machine correct?). Will the heat exchanger Pro500 suffice for me? Will the Pro600 give me better steam being a dual boiler? Will the Pro700 give me any better value or functionality assuming I don’t plan to plumb the machine? Thanks, Andreas
Hi Andreas, Thanks for the questions and your kind comments! Flow control is available on all Profitec machines with E61 group. If you really want to bump up the steam power the 600 or 700 is the way to go. The 500, 600 and 700 are all PID brew temp controlled a drantaic improvement in brew temp accuracy over the Appartamento. The Pro 600 and Pro 700 feature best in class steaming power capable of running at near 2 bar of pressure in the service boiler. The 500 does fine but as a heat exchange boiler machine increasing the boiler temp for higher steam power results in higher brew temps and it maxes out at about 1.4 bar. Beyond plumbability, the key differences between the 600 and 700 are the rotary pump in the 700 vs. vibration pump in the 600 and larger boilers in the 700. Rotary pumps have a higher potential flow rate of about 11g/s. Vibration pump machines run at about 8g/s. In my experience higher flow rates are beneficial when using darker roasted beans or beans beyond peak freshness. The rotary pump is quieter. Both machines can make drinks rapidly back to back but if you anticipate steaming larger amounts of milk the 700 has more reserve. I hope that helps in your decision.
Marc
Hi Mark! Great video about profitec pro 600. Do you have preferred grinder for this machine or any brand will bring same result?
Hi JJP, Thanks for the kind comment and question! For best results with the Pro 600 I recommend an espresso focused grinder with flat burrs at least 50mm in size. The Eureka Mignon Specialita is a good choice with 55mm burrs, 2 timed presets or manual grinding in a compact package. A step up are the Ceado E5Pro or E6P. Both use larger 64mm burrs and featured mostly machined components while some Mignon components are forged. The E5Pro is manual with no timed presets. The E6P has 2 timed presets plus manual grinding.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Eureka Mignon Specilita has tons of color options: www.wholelattelove.com/search?q=specialita
Ceado E5Pro: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e5-pro-espresso-grinder
Ceado E6P: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e6p-electronic-dosing-grinder-v2
Ah, I wish (and maybe someday) .. but please keep showing the machines that I can't afford! I think I have narrowed my choice down to an Office Lever Plus or a Brewtus IV-P, just can't decide if I really need dual boilers, but plumbing is a real option.
GS Jester Office lever is one of the best bang for the buck machines. If in for the long game a plumbed machine is a wonderful machine. And ps. We helped design it. Not as refined as Profitec/ECM machines but very capable!
Marc
Hi Mark,
Great review as always 👍
I got a question about the vibratory pump's noise, is it possible to hear it on your videos?
Dostlar's C I have the Pro 600 since 2 Months now and its pretty quiet. It is not as quiet as a linea mini but at a resonable level.
Have you got knowledge regarding claim factor 600 vs 700 depends on manufacturing place Italy vs Germany?
Hi Mark, thanks for the great video! I have 2 questions. Is it true that pressure on vibra machines must be (2bar) higher than on rota? Because Vibra have pulsating pressure. And the second question - I dont like combination of chrome and black on pro 600. Is it possible to get side panels in chrome? Thanks!!!
Hi AB, Thanks for the questions. We set vibration pump machines OPV to produce 10 bar on a machine pressure gauge with a backflush (blind) basket in the PF. That gets you max 9 bar at the group. Rotary pumps with higher flow rates (11g/s vs. 8g/s on vib) are set to 9 bar on the machine gauge which gets you 9 at the group.
Pro 600 panels... We only have black but they can be switched out by end user.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Great review! Will you review the Lelit Bianca? That has got to be the most bang for buck considering it´s a flow profiling machine for about 1850 english pounds, here in Europe anyway!
Hi A, Unfortunately I don't have one to review :(
Marc, for this machine, what is the approximate time from powering on to reach brew and steam temp? Thanks for another in depth video.
Hi venwin25, You are welcome! Thanks for the question. It's about 15 minutes for the machine to fully heat up. That's been my experience and Profitec's recommendation. A little faster than some other DB machines as the steam boiler is smaller at 1L. For comparison the steam boiler on the Pro 700 is 2L.
Marc
hi, can you tell something about energy consumption and how much energy you save when temporarily switching off the steam boiler when not needed? How would consumption compare to for example a Bezzera Magica?
Hi VV, Thanks for the question. A lot of variables involved in power consumption. If not using the steam boiler I would turn it off - will save power!
Marc
can you fill the tank without removing it? i mean, just use a pitcher of water to pour into the tank, or is that not recommended?? I cant use it if I have to remove the tank to refill, no clearance under cabinets for that.
Do you need to do a cooling flush on this PID machine?
Hi KM, No you do not need to do a cooling flush on this dual boiler machine.
Q: Is there any dual-boiler, E61 machine that's less expensive? This seems like a great value.
Actually, it seems like the Lelit Bianca is at about the same price and is also a dual-boiler, E61 machine.
Hey Mike, thanks for the question. The Pro 600 is an excellent value in dual boiler machines. If you compare the 600 to the Bianca up close the 600 has a higher build quality.
Great machine and a nice video my friend.
Hi HSR, Thank you for the comment!
Cheers,
Marc
Are there any advantages or disadvantages to having a vertical boiler with vertical heating element vs horizontal boiler and element?
Did you use the 2 Holes Steam Tip for the video...it looks like a 4? thanks
Hi Marc, Current Pro 600 machines do come with 2 hole steam tip. Back when this video was made they came with a 4 hole tip.
Marc
Hi, Marc, thanks for the excellent video. Do you need a 20A wall socket for the power source or is 15A source enough? What would be the maximum wattage of the machine when you use the two boilers, brewing and steaming, at the same time?
Hi James, You are welcome and thanks for the question. Maximum draw of the machine is 1400 watts which equals ~11.5amps. The machine is setup so heating elements will not operate simultaneously. 15A circuit should be sufficient but 20A is recommended.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc - I question your reply - firstly the label behind the drip tray says 2400w. Secondly, if only one element operates at any given time, it would not be possible to pull a shot and steam at the same time! Can you please clarify?
Hey Mark, love your videos! I recently bought this machine and was wondering on how to descale it but I can't seem to find any Information about this on the internet. The manual says to bring it to a service center but on the Pro 500 and 700 it has instructions for descaling. Do you know why that is? My retailer told me it's fine to just descale it like any other machine but I'm really hesitant since I don't find any information about this online. I have fairly hard water (~20 dhg -> some german index which stands for "german level of hardness" so you probably don't know what that means but just as a reference) and I'm using a BWT pad to reduce the hardness and it does come down to 5-8 dhg. It's not too bad but I think it would still be good to descale it every once in a while or not? Does it have something to do with the boilers being made out of stainless steel? Thanks in advance!
Hi FV, Thanks for the kind words on the videos!
Manufacturers generally advise against home users descaling dual boiler machines due to the risk of scale particles dislodging and plugging up other parts of the machine and because draining the boilers is more involved than on machines with HX or single boilers. Scale plugging during descaling generally happens only with neglected machines. Like a machine used in a hard water environment for a long period with no water treatment to reduce hardness and no regular descaling. At 20 degrees German your water is rather hard so you're doing the right thing using the BWT Bestsave pad filter. Be sure and replace the pad on schedule and that water in reservoir has enough residence time in reservoir before use. If using the pad filter properly you should have little to no scale forming. Stainless boilers can be descaled. After some use, you can get an idea on whether scale is occurring by removing the mushroom valve and inspecting for evidence of scale. I don't recommend home users descale dual boilers. That because I'll say go ahead and do it and somebody with a neglected machine will have problems brought on by descaling and blame me. With all that, If someone is 100% certain they don't have anything beyond very light scale - like next to none then descaling should not be a problem. In your shoes I'd talk to your retailer and get their recommended procedure for descaling the machine. There are many ways to do it, but if you run into trouble they might be somewhat accountable if you run into a problem and you followed their procedure. In our shop, boilers are generally removed for descaling but that's mostly for machines which have been neglected and show evidence of more aggressive scale deposits. Hope that helps.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage wow, that actually helps a lot! Thanks so much for your very detailed answer!!
I’m considering this or the Pro 500.
I’m thinking the thermal energy available should be higher with a 2l high temperature boiler than a 1l high temperature plus a 0,75l low temperature boiler. So the back-to-back shot capacity should be greater.
Or am I missing something?
Hi Arvid, Thanks for the question. Don't forget in a DB machine like the 600 each boiler has its own heating element. The Pro 500 has a single element. The 600 can run at higher steam pressure in it's service boiler - up to ~2 bar. Also, changing the pressure/temperature of the service boiler has no impact on brew temps. On the 500 if you adjust the PID for a lower brew temp you also decrease pressure/temp in the main steam producing section of the boiler.
Marc
Hi Marc. Thanks for the video review. How is the quality of the espresso shots in the 600? Can you compare the quality of the espresso shots on the pro 600 compared to the pro 700 and ECM synchronica- all other variables equal ? I’m down to choosing between these three machines. I plan to use water reservoir only (not plumbed).
Hi KQ, Sorry for the delayed response! Bummer you don't want to plumb! Plumbing the Pro 700 or Synchronika gets you the line pressure pre-infusion which opens up the next level of brewing. Also can help make shots more consistent as pre-infusing can reduce channeling thru the puck. If you didn't already know the 700 and Synchronika have identical brewing systems. So no difference in potential shot quality. The 600's brewing system is nearly identical to the others with same boiler and hydraulics to the group. Big difference with 600 is vibration pump with a rotary pump in the others and no plumbability so no pre-infusion. All can do pre-wetting of the coffee when working of reservoir dropping an once or so of water on the puck from group and residual pressure in boiler. If not plumbing all are IMO capable of comparable shot quality. There are some opinions on rotary vs.vibe pump shots but it's incredibly subjective. Vibe pumps build up pressure slower. Rotary pumps may be a little more consistent with pressure. Changing grind and/or technique can cancel out any advantages of one over the other. At the end of the day I prefer rotary pump machines. They are robust and have a more pleasing sound than vibe pumps.
Marc
Has Profitec 600 adjustable pre infusion time like Lelit Elizabeth'?
Can I compare this to the orchestrale nota? I’m having trouble deciding between the two /:
Hey Mark! After watching this vid, as well as your vids on flow control... I'm leaning towards ordering the Profitec Pro 600 w/ Flow Control. Watching your vids leads me to 3 questions? Does the Pro 600 w/ Flow Control still have the 2 bars of pressure for steaming just like the one in this vid? On WLL the Pro 600 w/ Flow Control shows a 2 tip wand, unlike the 4 tip wand in your vid here, does this mean I'm required to purchase 4 steam tip separately? And is there anything else that is potentially different between the Flow Control model and the one in this vid that may not be immediately obvious? Lastly, are there ever sales on WLL for these models? I've seen Rocket's go on sale, but I'm leaning towards Profitec for Flow Control + Steam Power.
Hi Jeremy, Thanks for the questions!
The current Pro 600 does have the same best in class steaming power at about 2 bar in the service boiler.
I believe the current 600 has a 2 hole steam tip - unfortunately I cannot quickly confirm that is the case. If you want the 4 hole and it comes with the 2 you would have to purchase the 4 hole but it's not required.
The only difference with flow control 600 is the mushroom valve and the E61 mounted pressure gauge.
Sales on these models are incredibly rare. We do offer "Latte Rewards" which I think on the 600 gets you $50 towards a future purchase, free shipping and 3 year warranty. I don't get involved in the sales aspect of these machines. But, you can def call our coffee experts 585-924-7170 for details.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for your reply. I ended up calling and talking with one of the sales reps who put together a really great package deal for me to get everything I wanted plus a nice discount. Looking forward to receiving my machine in the next week or so.
Oh hi Marc, Two questions.
Any grinder/machine packages going to exist on the 600?
Looking to make the plunge into the prosumer world. Would this unit be too complicated for someone with no experience? I'm trying to avoid the urge to upgrade to a nicer machine.
Hi JK, Love the Oh hi Marc! My kids say that all the time :) Contact us here: www.wholelattelove.com/contact-us And I'm sure a package can be worked out. The Profitec Pro T64 grinder in the video is perfect with this machine. As far as too complicated... What a dual boiler machine gets you is far less complication than a single boiler machine. Brew temps are always accurate and there's no screwing around with surfing temps like you'd have on a single boiler. Plus steam is always available and gosh darn powerful on this one. If you have not done manual steaming before there is a learning curve to that but it's far, far better than what you'll get on cheap entry level appliances. If you want to go nicer the best options are the Pro 700 or next level finishing of the ECM Synchronika.
Marc
Hey Marc. How does the Pro 600 do with back to back shots? If we were to make five or six in a row, for example, what would the reasonable rebound time between them be? If I spent 30’seconds or whatever steaming milk between them, would the machine be ready to go? I don’t love the look of the black side panels, but the 600 seems to be a decent compromise in price between the 500 and 700.
Hi James, Thanks for the question. Have to be honest I have not tested rapid fire back to back shots on the Pro 600 but in theory IMO it will be fine. Brew boiler is 25oz and you'll be taking about 3-4oz out for a double shot. It has a 1000 watt element. Between that and the mass of boiler plus group one would expect relatively quick rebound.
Marc
Hi Mark, I am reading many things about coffee flavours, how to better achieve the best from coffee etc.
I always wondered, is it worth it to spend 2k euro for a machine like this ( a part from the esthetic obviously )?
Hi Leonida, If serious about espresso they are worth it. These machines are beautiful and built to run for decades. Making exceptional espresso is all about controlling variables like brew temp, pressure, coffee dose and grind. That's what machines at this level can do. There are espresso appliances which cost far less. Many use undersized pressurized filter basket brewing systems which are incapable of the same quality. They have poor control of brew temp and pressure, cannot brew and froth milk at the same time and have a build quality that'll put them in the garbage within a few years.
Marc
So you are saying that, if I'd buy Breville Barista Express, even if I don't care of brewing and frothing milk at the same time, even if with Barista u can have control of pressure, grind size and timing, this machine ( a part from how amazing it looks ) it's still worth it despite the difference in price, for the consistency it offers and the years of work it can sustain. Am I right?@@Wholelattelovepage
Thank you for the time u spend in replying
That's what I'm saying.
Thank u Mark. Have a good evening. From Milan. @@Wholelattelovepage
Hey Mark,
As always, great video. A question about steam pressure on this machine... How far do you have to turn the steam knob to achieve full steam pressure output on the 600 vs. 700?
I hear on the 600 it’s 1 or more full rotations, whereas on the (2019) 700, it’s a mere quarter turn?
Also does that rotation amount change on these machines if you’ve set the PID for the steam boiler at 1.5 vs. 2 bar?
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Hi Christopher, Thanks for the questions. Both machines have "sprung" valves. There was a recent upgrade to the 700 valves so down to about a quarter turn from off to full open. Valves on 600 are under one full turn from off to full open. I'd say between 1/2 and 3/4. With higher pressure setting you will get more steam with same valve opening but more pressure does not change the amount of turn required to go from closed to open. Hope that helps!
Marc
Whole Latte Love Thanks Mark. Appreciate the clarity!
Hi, I’m a true novice. I finally figured out grinding etc to get right amount. I softened my water, put it in the water basket/ holder on my profitec 600, turned on my machine, the PID read 115....and the went to ‘FIL’. I tried turning on and off several times, but the same. I pulled the lever up, but some cold water came out from the center, not the steam or water spout. Can you advise? Psyched to get going!
Hi Charles, Sounds like the machine needs to go through filling the boiler startup routine. Here's the procedure from page 23 of the manual:
5.1 Fill Mode On the PID-display will be signed “Fill”. This is for filling the coffee boiler. To fill the coffee boiler, position the brew lever upwards for at least 30 seconds at a time. The coffee boiler and the steam / hotwater boiler are now filled. The sign “Fill” must be expire after filling 30 seconds. If there is still a pump noise, the filling of the steam/ hot water boiler is still being completed.
1. If the pump stops and the PID display turns off while the boilers are filled, you have to refill fresh water in the water tank.
2. If there is enough water in the water tank again, the pump starts to operate again.
3. As soon as both boilers are filled with water, the pump will become quiet. Both boilers are now being heated in succession whereby the coffee boiler has priority.
4. The PID display will show the current temperatures of both boilers alternately (see chapter 3.3).
5. The machine is ready for coffee preparation as soon as the PID display indicates the pre-set nominal temperature of 93°C (199,4 °F factory setting). The machine is ready for steam/ hot water dispension as soon as the PID display indicates the pre-set nominal temperature of 129°C (264,2 °F factory setting) or the boiler pressure gauge indicates a value of about 1.5 bars.
6. Manual boiler venting is not necessary because the PRO 600 contains a professional anti-vacuum valve, which automatically vents the boiler during the heat-up phase. 7. The machine is now ready for use
If needed here's a link to the PDF of the complete Pro 600 machine manual: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/3/3b/Profitec_Pro_600_User_Manual.pdf
Hope that helps! Should you need further assistance contact our tech support here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Marc
Hi Mark,
Please explain if may I upgrade P600 with special valve on top öffentlich group to manually change flow?
Do P600 offer electronic settings of preinfusuon time?
Hi NM, No flow control is manual.
Marc
Hi Marc, do you know if there will be upgrade for 2019 model of the 600 like thoses on the 700 (Ergonomic wear free rotary valve)? I like those on the 700. My Breville Dual-boiler is in repair (did 7 years with it, not bad but selenoid valve is to replace with group head as 3 out of 4 screw broke into it...) I’m looking to upgrade this year. So far I’m looking into the 600, 700 and also the bezzera duo DE. I’m affraid of the space needed from the 700 on the countertop vs my current Breville though. Would love to see a side to side size compare.
Hi M, Sorry for delayed response - a little sick the last couple of days. Anyway, here's a link to video of the 600 and 700 side by side: ua-cam.com/video/bB0eg0hG638/v-deo.html The 600 has sprung valves like the 700. Seven years is a good run for a Breville DB. It's a fine product but more appliance than machine. You'll find the 600 and 700 are very user serviceable. The Bezzera is a little more complex.
Marc
Hi Mark, if you are using the pro 600 vs the pro 500 to pull a shot and steam milk at the same time what’s the difference in temperature stability between the two machines and would it make a big difference in the taste of the shot? I guess another way to ask it is, if you’re using the 500 to steam and pull a shot the same time how much does the temperature fluctuate and will that be evident in the shot?
Hi Levi, Love the name. My first grandson is named Levi! Really not much difference at all in stability. Only using about 3oz/90ml of water out of the heat exchange section of the Pro 500. The brewing system has a large thermal mass between exiting the boiler and the moving thru the E61 group. Not enough time for temp to drop enough in the boiler from steaming to affect brew temp. I think it would be very difficult to detect any difference in the shot.Marc
Hi Mark. Is it possible to replace the valves with the Pro 's 700 or the joystick of the Synchronika?
Hi Dostlar's, Thanks for the question. Sorry it is not. :(
Marc
Hi Marc, I'm owner of a Pro 600. I'm intersted in PID calibration. Do you have custom PID setting at WLL for this machine. Especially I'm intersted in brew temperatur offset (E1) as there is much discussion about calibrating this offset. If you have, will your settings differ from mine because I'm from europe -> 230V voltage
Best regards
Cord
Hi Cord, Thanks for the question. We do not have a custom setting for the brew boiler offset. We leave as set by Profitec. In my experience there is little reason to change unless your machine is operating outside of typical room temperatures. Ambient temps can have an affect as the E61 acts as a heat sink. Not too long ago I did a test where I held a wet rag on an E61 group for about 10 seconds then quickly did a Scace brew temp test. That 10 seconds of wet rag on the group dropped the Scace temps by ~10F. Now a wet rag pulls out a lot more heat than air but operating a machine in a 60F room vs an 85F room is sure to make a difference in actual temps in the group. On a side note be very careful going into those technical PID settings. Not a big deal to change the brew boiler offset if you know what you're doing but things can get weird if you change the P, I or D settings.
Marc
I did not get the 4 hole tip in my purchase from WLL. It was a 2 hole. Can it be sent to me? I’d prefer the 4.
Hi naomi, Thanks for the question. Since this video was made in January Profitec changed to shipping the Pro 600 with a 2 hole tip as described in the specifications of this page: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
You can inquire about availability of a 4 hole accessory tip with our customer support dept. at 585-924-7170
I'm considering the Pro 500. I know it's not a dual boiler machine, but a heat exchanger machine. How does it compare to this 600? It's for home use, 2 to 4 shots per day on average.
I know in heat exchangers, I need to flush the system to flush those too hot water out. Besides that, is there any downsides, as both uses vibration pump?
Need info on performance, reliability, etc. I've read reviews even the 500 series has very consistent temperature with the help of PID.
Can I adjust the brew pressure intl the 500 like this 600 one shown? To always brew at 9 bar?
Hi WK, Thanks for the question. As the Pro 500 is PID temp controlled it does not need a cooling flush as you would in non-PID HX machines. What the 600 gets you is even greater brew temp stability with a dedicated boiler. Also has more steam power than the 500 as it runs at about 2bar of pressure inn the steam boiler.
Marc
Hi Mark great review as usual...Pro 500 pid or Pro 600 any opinions? I’m between these two... 3 or 4 lattes a day...I’m a newbie.. thanks
Hi Aurelio, Thanks for the comment. Both are fine machines. Size is nearly identical as the Pro 600 is built on the same chassis as the 500. If doing more milk drinks I recommend the 600 for the extra bump in steaming power. Let me know if you have any more questions. Or, you can speak directly with our coffee/espresso experts by phone/chat/email: www.wholelattelove.com/contact-us
Marc
Thanks for the insights Marc!!! Waiting for the 2019 best espresso machines video!
@@aureliocastro6478 You are welcome! Any particular category of machine for inclusion in Best of '19?
Hmm I would like to see HX and DB, also it would be cool to have another for accessories 👌
Aurelio Castro will def include HX and DB. So far accessory of the year is Leveler specifically The Jack by Asso Coffee. But the year is young!
Marc
Thanks for the video. Can you compare Expobar Brewtus LEVA EB-61 1 GR 2 BOILERS PID with Profitec 600
Hi Mazen, Thank you for the comment. If you go to this page and scroll down to videos a bunch of videos on the Brewtus with comparisons to a variety of machines: www.wholelattelove.com/expobar-brewtus-iv-r-with-rotary-pump
Marc
How is this compared to Rocket espresso machines?
Hi Anel, Thanks for the question. Rocket Espresso makes decent machines. Prices vary in markets around the world but in general for similar feature set Profitec machines are lower in price than comparable Rocket's. Regardless of machine, I give Profitec a slight edge in overall quality while Rocket is heavier on the branding of their machines. Good example is comparing the Profitec Pro 400 to the Rocket Appartamento. In US market the Pro 400 runs ~$250 less than the Appartamento. The Pro 400 has 3 level temperature control while the Rocket is single temp controlled by pressure stat with larger temperature fluctuations.
Check them out here:
Profitec Pro 400: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-400-espresso-machine
Rocket Appartamento: www.wholelattelove.com/products/rocket-espresso-appartamento-with-black-panels
Hope that helps!
Marc
Hi Marc! Is the extra money worth it to upgrade from a P500 to P600?
Hi GO! The Pro 500 is one of my favorite HX boiler PID machines. The Pro 600 takes you to dual boilers and best in class steaming power with up to ~2 bar. With individual boilers you can adjust steam boiler temp/pressure without changing the brew temp as you would on the 500. If that's important to you then answer is yes.
Marc
Can you please comment on the steam volume in boilers and steaming capacities.
in particular, the comparison between the profitec 500 with 2L boiler plus 2+ Ltr reservoir for coffee... vs dual boiler of 0,75 Ltr + 1Ltr steam boiler in the 600,
which would run out of "steam" when making cappucinos in a line? and any test of how many cups of cappucinos before either runs out of steam?
Hi r, Thanks for the question. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of the Pro 500 and 600 including current pricing: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NTk5MzY1MDIzNSwxNTQ2MDQxMDk4Mjk5
While the 500 has a larger boiler it runs at a lower pressure than the 600 which features best in class steaming power running at ~2 bar max compared to the 500 with ~1.4 bar max. Recovery after steaming milk for a cappuccino is fast on both machines - they'd be back up to full steam pressure well before you'd be finished pouring milk for the cappuccino, grinding/tamping/loading for the next shot and refilling your milk pitcher. Understand neither machine is intended for commercial use. If steaming large amounts of milk rapidly back to back for extended periods you may eventually see a small drop in pressure but not something I've tested as it's not an intended use.
Marc
I see the brew pressure is adjustable so What’s the best brew pressure?
9psi
Is the Color of the PID Display Light white or blue? Hard to tell from the video
Hi 34, It's blue.
Marc
Marc, can you provide some information as to the pros/cons or advantages/disadvantages of a 1L steam boiler (Pro 600) vs. the 2L steam boiler on the Pro 700? I am looking for the best value purchase. I am upgrading from a Silvia and looking to pull consistently good shots of espresso and also be able to steam Soy Milk with good results. I have considered the Synchronika and Pro 700, but given that I have no experience with Prosumer machines I am concerned with how to make a decision which offers me the best value. I should also add that I only make 2 cappuccino's a day for my wife and I. So, 4 pulled shots a day. Thanks!
Hi Michael, The larger steam boiler boiler gives you more steaming capacity and faster recovery to full boiler temp after steaming. Honestly though if doing 2 cappuccino a day the 1 liter boiler in the 600 will not hold you back in any way. The brew boiler in the 600, 700 and Synchronika is the same. Only difference is the pump. 600 is vibration (like the Silvia) other are rotary. 600 is reservoir fed only while the others can be plumbed or reservoir fed. Unless you want to plumb your machine or want the smooth sound of rotary pump the 600 will serve your needs IMO. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions and I'd be happy to answer.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the response. It makes perfect sense. A few other questions: I am looking for something that will be durable and not require any maintenance outside the home, unless it literally breaks. I know that is difficult, and outside maintenance is always a possibility, but I want to mitigate that risk as much as I can. Would something like the Pro 700 or Synchronika be more durable, or less durable, or the same as the Pro 600? Things like the pump type maybe? I have also considered the Linea Mini (much more expensive I know) due to it's simpler design and commercial parts but I am not sure if the extra cost is justified for someone like me. Also, you talk about line infusion on the Synchronika and I like that idea. I just don't know if I need it. In general I don't really care about plumbing in but would be willing if it resulted in better coffee. In general I like the idea of pre-infusion. The Lelit Bianca looks nice but it isn't widely available and that concerns me. Anyway, I really am asking if the Pro 600 has the same characteristics as the 700 and Synchronika in terms of durability and maintenance. Thanks again for the response and for your great reviews. It is much appreciated.
The Pro 600 does have the same durability as the 700. As to maintenance, if you want trouble free operation the single most important thing is feeding a machine good water that will not cause scale. Scale is the number one problem for any machine. The guys who design Profitec machines come from a service background so simple, reliable and easy to service is important to them. It's an attribute which has propelled their machines to some of the most highly regarded in the field. LM machines are well regarded but when they need service it can be tough and they are not as user serviceable as Profitec/ECM machines. Not everyone needs line pressure pre-infusion. But if your coffee journey takes you places like high-end single origin coffees you may find yourself wanting it. Plumbing a machine makes it very easy to provide excellent no-scale water quality with an in-line filter system like this: www.wholelattelove.com/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package No scale and pressure control. If you go with a reservoir machine like the 600 do treat your water with an in tank pad filter or ion-exchange pitcher.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks again for your response. Since I roast my own coffee and only drink Organic coffee, my choices for beans are limited. So, the world of Single Origin Coffees, which if I understand it correctly means the beans come from the same farm, and often the same tree, is probably out of reach for me. If I understand you then the pre-infusion would be less valuable in terms of its impact on taste. So, my real choice is between a machine like the LMLM, which LM says is serviceable exclusively in my home, or something like the Pro 600 which if it really broke might have to be shipped to you for servicing. I don't really care about plumbing in, unless it would have a dramatic effect on the taste. And, where I live the water is soft and we have never had scale issues. I confirmed this with my Town water people. But, we still take precautions like using Brita pitchers for now, and maybe someday in the future getting a below the sink filter system to get the Brita pitchers off of the counter. Thanks again for the help. Michael
I have a Pro 700. What did they have to sacrifice on the 600 to get it to a lower price point?
Alexander Lee steam boiler is smaller, less detail in casework, 600 is not plumbable so no line pressure preinfusion , vibration pump instead of rotary.
Marc
Scace test on multiple runs please.
Does it have a restrictor as well for the upper inlet pipe?
Hi B, Thanks for the request. Many Scace tests off camera with same result. Brew temp is solid. I have not removed the connection to group to look for a restrictor. I'll check with out service techs.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks marc, when you say brew temp is solid, what are the numbers and if there are any peaks? e.g if you were pulling a 1:2 shot or 1:1.5 shot whats the starting temp and if it peaks whats that temp and finally the ending temp. Trying to decide if the HX hump is diminished with this kit or not! cheers.
I've had my Profitec 600 from WLL for only a few months, and I've noticed the steam valve is very squeaky (super loud). Is that normal? Or is this something that needs to be fixed to keep my machine safe?
Hi JJ, Thanks for the question and please excuse my delayed response - I've been on vacation and offline for a week. Quickest way to support for your machine is a call to our tech support pros. Contact info here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Squeaking can happen but I would not say it's normal. It may be an indication of scaling or wear in the valve components but hard to say for sure. Regardless of cause it's highly unlikely your machine is unsafe! Here's a link to an expanded diagram of the Pro 600: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/e/ed/PRO_600_Parts_Diagram.pdf Exploded view of valve is shown in drawing 6.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the reply Marc!
I located your video on how to remove the handles from the steam valve. After doing so, I used a little food safe oil to lubricate the threading of the handles and that solved the issue. It looks like there was just too much friction on the threading. Back in business with no squeaking now!
Can you easily customize the side panels to let's say wood inlays?
Hi 3, Yes they can be replaced and it's fairly easy to do!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the quick answer. Do you have custom parts in your shop?
Hey Marc thanks for your very interesting videos and helping advises. I proud owner of a new pro 600. Compared to my old e61HX machine I have the feeling that the pro 600 needs longer time for stable group temp @ about 1h. You had I nice measurement data compare group heat up times of pro 500vs bz10 vs Giotto. Do have such group temp measurement for the heat up of pro600 as well for me to compare? Is it possible with new machines that there remain s particals from the production process within thermo cycle of e61 which may slow down the heat up process? Best regards Cord
Hi 84cord, Thanks for the comment and question. An hour for full heating to stable seems very long! While HX machines might heat a bit faster due to the higher temps in boiler. It should not take an hour on a Pro 600 if everything is operating properly. I think it's unlikely there are left over particles from production but it's not out of the question. I've been to Profitec's production facility in Italy and every machine is tested after building. If you purchased the machine from us it was prepped again with full test of temp/flow prior to shipping. You could check flow rate from the group to verify. With no PF in place and machine warmed up measure how much water you get in milliliters from the group in 20 seconds. Divide volume by 20 to get grams per second. It should be in a range of ~8-12g/s. If below 8g/s there may be an obstruction.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hey Marc, thanks for your fast reply. I measured exact 7,4g/s for several times. Do you think this is still acceptable or should I contact Profitec?
Best regards Cord
84cord let me check flow rate on a pro 600 here. I may have made a slight error and given you flow rate reference more typical for a rotary pump machine and not vibration pump like 600
Hi 84cord, Just ran 3 flow tests. Ran pump for 20 seconds and weighed water output. Results were 163g, 164g and 160g for flow rates of 8.2g/s, 8.2g/s and 8g/s. While your rate is .6g/s slower I doubt that is enough to indicate any restriction in the thermosiphon. Your rate difference from mine could be measuring error. I doubt it has anything to do with a longer heat up time. Are you 100% certain your machine is taking 60 minutes to reach stable temp? For faster heatup of the brew boiler you could turn off the steam boiler as described on page 25 of the Pro 600 manual: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/3/3b/Profitec_Pro_600_User_Manual.pdf
Another tactic for faster heatup is running blank shots thru the brew circuit
Marc
hi! in the market for an espresso machine, what are the main differences between the 600 and 300?
Hi Timothy, Thanks for the question. The 600 has larger boilers (same brew boiler used in the Pro 700), E61 brew group and much higher working steam pressure. The brew boiler in the 300 is low volume and mounted over the group. On the 600 brewing is controled via the lever of the E61 group. On the 300 it's a switch to start/stop brewing. More specs and videos about the 300 available here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/all/products/profitec-pro-300-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Samefor the 600 is located here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks a lot, you guys are awesome!
I have the same dilemma. I am sold on the build quality of Profitec, just not sure if the 600 is worth the upgrade. I think the 600 gives me (1) a nicer looking machine; (2) sprung valves; and (3) greater steam capability. I never was too clear on how the different brew groups might affect shot quality. Am I missing anything else? Thanks!!
But is that sticker on the group removable??
Hi M, Yes it is.
Marc
Can you remove the side panel and use glass or polycarbonate to enjoy the engineering beauty inside?
Hi AN, Yes it is possible. Then there are machines like this which have that feature out of the box: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-de-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Even has adjustable color highlighting of clear panels on sides of machine.
Marc
what is the cost difference
Gayle Rose Thanks for the ?.Can you clarify which machines?
Marc
This machine is a couple hundred bucks too much for that size of steam boiler. The specs are basically identical to the Quick Mill QM67 Evo and 20 secs to steam 6oz is on the slow side which is on par with the QM which people complain is a slow steamer.
Gustavo Sanchez the QM67 build quality does not look like the Profitec. Look for under the hood picture of both and compare how component are laid out and assembled, that speak for itself... Also QM67 use cooper boiler vs stainless on profitec. My personal taste goes to quality vs just the lowest price.
I want this and my wife wants the breville oracle touch. I even offered to wake up and make her the drink, but alas I will be a breville oracle owner soon. Booo
Hi TC, I feel for you as I live your situation! Happy wife = happy life. Maybe mention you get to choose the next one? At some point the Breville appliance will fail and a repair will not be worth the cost. The Pro 600 is a machine built to a much higher standard. Very easy DIY repairs - it's reasonable to expect decades of service from machine grade products. The Breville will have been in the dump for a long time by then!
Marc
Why such an advanced machine still using Casio type of screen 🤔
Hi V, this screen type is very common on espresso machines and used by many manufacturers. It's lower cost, durable and gets the job done - a K.I.S.S. part. There are some machines out there using more advanced touchscreens like the Bezzera Matrix: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-de-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Marc
Wish I liked that reservoir access, but I don't.
Bryan Jensen get a plumbed machine like the Pro 700 or Synchronica and never fill a reservoir! Also - line pressure pre-infusion with those.
Marc
This sounds more like a sales pitch than a review.
Hi Aj, The video includes test results like time to steam to temp and boiler recovery after steaming. I'm fairly certain no other video on this machine goes into details like the stainless mushroom valve (by the way far better than chromed valves in some competing machines). The video covers specs and features like extra functions available via the PID controller and how to use them. I mention the casework is nice but you can have better in the Pro 700 or Synchronika if that's important to you. I mention the machine is not plumbable. Do you want me to say that's a fault? For some it could be. For others it's not. I mention the machine has no internal venting of moisture with the steam boiler vacuum relief valve vented to the drip tray. Many competing machines leave this open and vent moisture internally every time the machine warms up. I show you the machine and you can make up your own mind. I stand behind everything I say. I could have gone further and told you how Profitec goes into extra details in finishing the machine. Like the internal welded seams of the drip tray which are polished. Many competing machines simply spot weld these parts and leave the welds bare. Or talk about the chassis design which has a continuous solid rail front to back. Many competing machines weld on the drip tray support which leave them susceptible to damage in shipping. If I sound like I'm a fan of this machine it's because I am. I've worked with and been under the hood of most every prosumer level domestic machine currently available in the US market. IMO this machine and others by Profitec stand out with reliable K.I.S.S. design, innovations like the stainless mushroom and best in class steam power. It's up to you if you want to see it as a sales pitch. If there's something else you'd like to know about the Pro 600 please ask here and it would be my pleasure to provide you with a detailed answer.
Marc
Beautiful. I'm trying not to have a wandering eye..... I gotta get outta here!
Hi Y, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
What, no flow control?
Hi Bill, Correct. This video was made prior to flow control being available for E61 machines.
Marc