Mocclans are more the Klingons of this universe. The Krill are closer to the Romulans. So in this universe the Klingons and Romulans banded together and formed an alliance so strong the Borg and the Federation had to team up to fight them.
@@Spoopball There is no direct comparison. Neither the Klingons nor the Krill have a “war religion”. The Klingons are simply a warmongering race, while the Krill are simply very religiously devout (and their religion tells them they are superior to nonbelievers; kind of a parallel to Islamic extremists). In the original series you’re correct on the Klingons, but the Romulans are largely an unknown. For that reason I’m comparing this show to the 90s shows. During the 90s shows (TNG, DS9, VOY) the Klingons held a very uneasy alliance with the federation born out of a combination of necessity and mutual respect, and because of different lifestyles it was maintained as a separate alliance, the Klingons did not actually join the federation. Politically this is a parallel to the Mocclans, who have an alliance with the Planetary Union but maintain their own fleet and operate independently and somewhat uneasily. Meanwhile the Romulans are openly hostile towards the Federation but not formally at war; a “you leave us alone, we’ll leave you alone” type of relationship. This is similar to the relationship the Union had with the Krill for season 1 and most of season 2. Now eventually the Romulans and Federation form an alliance to fight the Dominion War, but it remains a brittle alliance easily disrupted by the Romulans’ internal political strife after the war ends. This can be paralleled with the Krill, who form a brittle alliance with the Union to fight the Kaylon, but that alliance is easily broken by internal political strife within the Krill. Throughout the run of TNG the Romulans and Klingons make several attempts to form an alliance in secret in order to overpower the Federation in the event of open warfare. These attempts are all exposed by the Federation and the alliance never really forms. Similarly, the Krill and Mocclans succesfully form an alliance in order to overpower the Union. They just didn’t count on the Union forming an alliance with the Kaylon in response. Thus the “Federation” and “Borg” of this universe teamed up against the “Romulans” and “Klingons”.
It’s amazing how quickly you can rise through the ranks when you hold a vendetta. Telaya went from school teacher to leader of a planet in just over 2 years.
@@MichaelMiller-bs3tz The only thing trump is good at inheriting daddy's money and running business into bankruptcy 6 times. How is that a good businessman?
I took her remark of "our time in this realm is finite, Captain" to mean something along the lines of "Perhaps, but Ozymandias was long dead when the traveller came upon his stele. None of us can expect our works to last for ever, but if we allow impermanence to dissuade us from creating these works in the first place, then we will have failed before even reaching the first hurdle."
@stephenwood6663 Maintaining a stranglehold on the objectives right in front of you. There's almost as much power in that as maintaining measured and empathic responses over personal bias and feelings.
@@jlinkous05 Empathy in an uncaring universe can prove as destructive as it may be diplomatic. I was in Cologne, Germany the night of the "2015-2016 New Years Eve Assault"; those men, and millions like them, wouldn't have been in Germany, assaulting its female population while burdening their male counterparts with the debt burden of an inclusive welfare state, had bleeding-heart empaths like yourself not gutted it of reason and self-preservational instinct. It is now a self-loathing asylum, buffet, and bordello for the third world. Your attempts at "maintaining measured and empathic responses" made it a cesspool where most won't even celebrate their past, for fear of being called "Nazi". An open-mind (and society) is like a fortress with its drawbridge down and its doors rattling in the wind.
For those interested, Ozymandias was the Greek name of Ramesses The Great, notable amongst many things for having set up stele across his realm declaring his victory in the Battle of Kadesh, and proclaiming mighty works during the height of the Egyptian New Kingdom period. The New Kingdom declined relatively shortly after his death, with the precipitious and mysterious bronze age collapse.
I like moments like this. The show often makes sillier references than this (think Kelly's "I'm a Survivor"), but it's these more intellectual ones that serve to remind you that Ed isn't just a complete screw up, and he was top of his class at Union Point, and he's actually very good at his job.
Well, when we first meet Ed Mercer, he was completely heart broken over the break up of his supposedly perfect marriage and had resorted to drowning his sorrows. Before that, he was supposedly on his way to an Admiral's star.
Its funny Talea uses "light of command or in the darkness of servitude" Knowing full well what happens to Krills when they reach the light I wonder if that is a misswrite or a deliberate choice from the writers on this one :o
Maybe it’s an equivalent to “one day a lion is better than a lifetime as a sheep” so the light and dark is saying that it’s better to die young as a commander than to live an entire lifetime as a coward
no she ment it. bright bright and short (krill burn bright and shortly in light), or live a dull long life in the darkness. the krill's whole culture is about war, like the spartans.
It is also a hallmark of those who grasp at power unjustly. Just rule, just command, IS servitude. The difference between a despot and a king, if you will.
I think they're still carrying that affection for each other. And they would have been really great together, if he wasn't a human she was sent to seduce and capture for the Krill Gotta admire her dedication to her people over herself
Yeah, it's there and there is an amazing story between those two episodes we haven't been told. Ed did care and let that door remain open as a potential bridge for their peoples. But how did Telaya go from selling herself to vengeance to her 'official' front slipping and her care for Ed breaking through for a moment at times? To planning to smuggle him out to safety when she wanted him dead before? To going into a defensive panic at Ed not giving up at the offer to stand together with their child in front of the whole universe? How softly and weakly she said 'No' at first? How her voice cracked when speaking of their child as 'impure?' How tenderly, if guarded, she spoke of giving their daughter her beautiful name? She had to have gone through some heavy, deep stuff during that pregnancy and probably had a full crisis of faith. If Krill is the work of Avis, then she polluted that work and her government was at fault for promoting the means. She probably felt she had sinned by crossing the line when she didn't need to in order to hook Captain Mercer, then blamed the military and government for altering her body to enable her to conceive not only outside her divine species but with her brother's killer. Not only that, she made him that sandwich! That is a ton of guilt and anger. Now think about Telaya's reaction to Ed asking why she had their daughter and how powerfully she reacted. That wasn't belief. That was personal. Imagine Telaya back then with the caretaker as a nun who was called in for a special case when the simulation showed the impossible. Her offering comfort and solace to a woman in crisis who tried to terminate the baby growing inside her. Listening to Telaya's confession and how she fell, polluting her race and the work of Avis. How the military and government had no business experimenting with such methods to infiltrate the Union. Now imagine the caretaker asking if this may actually be Avis advancing his will. Because while Ed does not believe in Avis, he does not seem to actually deny anything. He simply accepts the universe to be whatever it may be. And the cards oddly fall exactly in the right way in his presence for things to unfold as they do. Because how else did Telaya end up the sole adult survivor of THREE entire Krill ships crossing Ed Mercer, one of which was while she was unknowingly carrying this child? Was Avid so weak that he couldn't ensure the impossible odds of nature and man to prevent this child from coming to be? Or was Avis so great that such odds meant nothing to him to ensure the child? I keep watching this episode, and the more I do the more I see Telaya wanting to say so much but is unable due to impossible circumstances. Best she can do is hint at them.
@@andyhines9070 really want to see a flashback episode (or at least a solid A plot) focusing on teleya and how she deals with this pregnancy (and maybe even giving more of her character’s background/upbringing).
Ok so this is something I slowly starting to realize about the Orville, and start trek most sci go and any show that truly takes advantage of its environment. If you do your job right you can create and environment that allows you to express so many wonderfully abstract ideas that are inspired by the infinite possibility that is space. From that concept so many philosophical and unique stories and parables and lessons has arisen from that random endless void. Whenever the Orville talks about concepts like “flatland” and world inhabited by shapes where what shape you are decides your lot in life. Or this very scene speaking of ozmandias, Star Trek had a lot of amazing stories that really challenge one’s perception of ethics, social constructs and imagination. Love this show so much and hopes it gets renewed for another season :)
@@sonicguyver7445 Agreed. She also has this tell. When asked a question that is too disturbing to answer truthfully she can't even lie about it. She leads the questioner to infer what her answer was when she did not actually give an answer. However by this time I think she can't deny it to herself anymore, but can't admit anything for external reasons we haven't been shown.
Teleya has about 3-4 episodes of screen time, yet she is more nuanced and likable than Kelly who had 3 F*cking season!!!!! Kelly cheats on Ed, and redirects the blame onto Ed Kelly became a god on a planet and says Sorry, I'm just a human, changes the course of their entire culture and history Kelly keeps Ed at bay and won't reconcile their relationship turning him into a SIMP Kelly encounters another Kelly from the past who loves ED, Present Kelly is sickened by how she used to be Kelly goes back to her time, and rejects ED, thus changing the fate of the Universe!!!! Teleya is a school teacher, she lost her brother in a war with the Union Teleya is a follower of Avis, she welcomes Ed to the church Teleya trusts Ed and hides the children in the classroom Teleya goes undercover to learn about the Union, goes deep cover and establishes a relationship with ED (yes she sleeps with him) Teleya and Ed crash lands on a planet, Ed Saves her life Teleya has a daughter with Ed and becomes Prime Minister of her planet Teleya secretly spares Ed's life You be the judge..... who had better chemistry with Ed?
Man I wish this show had more seasons. I loved how much the faction dynamics wildly shift by the end of the series. The status quo is entirely flipped on it's head.
I think Telaya knew exactly what she was saying. We were shown beggars and exotic dancers in the streets. Imagine how Telaya would have to survive while carrying an 'impure' child in her arms 'in the darkness of servitude.' That might be a very miserable, bleak existence for them both with no future. It is possible Telaya knows she's going to burn and it will be sooner than later, but her daughter will be safe and well.
@@steffanyschwartz7801 Yeah, Sure, She's Not Quoting Paradise Lost Or Moby Dick Every 5 Minutes, But She's Out For Revenge Over The Death Of Her Brother, And This Line Definitely Makes Her Look More Like Khan Because She Lets Her Hubris Cloud Her Judgment
I get what Ozymandias is going for as a warning, however the counter to this parable is that everything decays, not just the great and powerful. Unless you are specifically chasing power so that you will always be remembered its not really a good argument against any specific political decision.
That’s not the point of the poem. Percy is mocking the arrogance of warmongers with a superiority complex: Ramesses was a great conqueror who believed he was blessed by the Gods, but he eventually died and his kingdom is in ruins. Nothing remains of Pi-Ramesses. It decayed just like the house of the lowliest servant. Percy wrote the poem in the aftermath of the Napoleonic Wars: Napoleon died alone in exile two years after the poem was published, and his only legitimate son died childless.
@@thenablade858 I think I do address this point though, and its a bad point regardless. Nothing lasts forever, so the fact that he died and his kingdom decayed does not mean that Ramesses actions were not worthwhile at the time. Also, if they are both equal in death there is equally no point in not trying to achieve great conquest. You are also discounting the hundreds if not thousands of years where Pi-Ramesses did maintain a lasting legacy and his actions had a tremendous effect on the people living during that era. Its a very defeatist attitude. Also, many great figures of history have in fact stood the test of time and have massively influenced history in ways that will never not be relevant for as long as our current civilization exists or maintains any kind of knowledge of the past. It is impossible to predict whether or not you will succeed at becoming one of these untill you actually put your foot out and try to make your mark on history. I really doubt when Alexander the Great marched on Persia he was thinking 'I sure hope people never forget me even a million years from now, if they do it will mean I should have just stayed at home.'
You keep changing your post and everytime you do it removes my reply. This is the third time now. You have changed your initial statment from Percy 'makeing a point' to Percy 'makeing fun of' ancient conquerors. As if anything could be more self defeating. If he is trying to make fun of Ozymandias he is not suceeding very well, for all the reasons I mentioned earlier, not to mention the fact that he's breathing life back into the name even as he belittles it. The Egyptian peasants who didn't conquer are now just as dried up and forgotten as he is, which means there is no reason not to do the things he is makeing fun of for the reasons he gives. Making fun of Napoleon... I doubt we are going to forget him any time soon, and even when humanity eventually does it will still have no bearing or whether or not Napoleon was doing something worthwhile when he lived. Either way the poem is not a good argument in this scene.
I always took it to mean that the empty, ruined desert was the thing to look at and despair over. Dipshit ruined an entire nation in the end. It wasn't his death that caused the fall...it was everything he did while he was alive. Like teaching a child how to be a soldier...but not how to do anything otherwise for itself...even so much as feed itself. The instant you're gone...that individual dies. "This wasteland is my fault, because I was a shitty ruler."
I truly hope to see more seasons of the Orville if only to see that egg salad sandwich randomly plop on the science table. Though I also hope to see more of those necromorph like insects species come back into play. Even the original start trek, they never ran into a problem where a virus forcibly transformed a being into another species.
Her sentiment in my opinion is correct The Roman empire was not built in a day and it's better to burn up and shine brighter then anyone before you then to slowly shrivel up and fade away
The Roman Empire wasn’t built in a day, but once it was built it endured in one form or another for 2,000 years, from the founding of Rome to the fall of Constantinople. The Romans weren’t the sort to build temporary edifices to their transitory glory and vanity - they built to last. Their greatest achievements weren’t statues, they were roads and aqueducts and bridges that in some form or another endure to this day across Europe, and they were ideas and laws and social orders that transcended their nation and also continue to this day. Rome was a culture OBSESSED with endurance. It’s a bad example you gave there.
@@RogueShadows Well moreso what I meant was the phrase Rome wasn't built in a day and you are correct their obsession with endurance and survival but Rome was at various points in a very precarious situation and if caution or hesitation was chosen that Empire would not have existed The wars with Carthage the various civil wars hell the circumstances of the empire being formed from the dead carcass of the Roman republic could've doomed Rome as a civilisation to fall given certain choices being made differently but Irregardless my point wasn't about vanity and building monuments it was about striking while the iron is hot and not letting an opportunity slip through your fingertips because of hesitation
Eventually it will all fade away. Most people barely know anything about Roman leaders, the most famous one was Julius and that’s partially because of his infamous assassination. The poem isn’t about building civilizations to sustain people (like aqueducts, schools, hospitals etc) but the arrogance of rulers with a superiority complex who’s legacy is ultimately death and oblivion: Egypt never reached the power it had under Ramesses II, and it was eventually conquered by the Persians.
And what’s wrong with that? Desert lasts longer than any statue. The point is that Ramesses believed he was ‘blessed’ by the Gods, but Egypt never regained the ultimate power that it had during his reign after his death. It was eventually conquered by the Persians, then Alexander, the Romans etc.
That’s the point. Nothing lasts forever, and the Krill are incredibly arrogant and believe they are superior to everybody else just like Ozymandias/Ramesses did, but they are equal to the Union in that they are equal in death and eventual oblivion.
She basically fired back with 'it's better to burnout than fade away'. I.E. We're all going to die anyway, so it's better to try and aim as high as you can with what time you have.
No she didn’t. She understood perfectly. But what she values is radically different. She does not fear eventual obscurity of her mark on the universe, only that she never went far enough to have made a mark at all.
She probably said that so as to make it easier for Ed to understand her point, using language in his cultural lens in a world where daylight is natural
I don't like how they twisted the Bible verse about King Jesus who was the word The living word the son of the living God there wasn't no call for that. At the end I actor forget the character that actor will bow they need to Jesus and give an account for that it's statesman's like that. Get you completely out of how good the show is in into what the heck would that actor or actress thinking to agree to speak that line they should have said no to the director.
or, you know, they really don't have any interest in your deity. They may have their own deity of choice or even none at all. Your particular deity might be important to you, but it's not important to everyone. I have no deity and as far as I'm concerned when I die I will end and my atoms will eventually become something else. It's kind of comforting. But I won't care as I won't exist. And that's comforting too.
In this universe, the klingon were so bad, the borg teamed up with the federation
I thought the Moclans were the Klingons.
Mocclans are more the Klingons of this universe. The Krill are closer to the Romulans.
So in this universe the Klingons and Romulans banded together and formed an alliance so strong the Borg and the Federation had to team up to fight them.
@@jaanfo3874 it was my understanding the klingon were known for the war religion and Romulon= the war tech or did i just switch them in my head?
@@Spoopball There is no direct comparison. Neither the Klingons nor the Krill have a “war religion”. The Klingons are simply a warmongering race, while the Krill are simply very religiously devout (and their religion tells them they are superior to nonbelievers; kind of a parallel to Islamic extremists).
In the original series you’re correct on the Klingons, but the Romulans are largely an unknown. For that reason I’m comparing this show to the 90s shows.
During the 90s shows (TNG, DS9, VOY) the Klingons held a very uneasy alliance with the federation born out of a combination of necessity and mutual respect, and because of different lifestyles it was maintained as a separate alliance, the Klingons did not actually join the federation. Politically this is a parallel to the Mocclans, who have an alliance with the Planetary Union but maintain their own fleet and operate independently and somewhat uneasily.
Meanwhile the Romulans are openly hostile towards the Federation but not formally at war; a “you leave us alone, we’ll leave you alone” type of relationship. This is similar to the relationship the Union had with the Krill for season 1 and most of season 2. Now eventually the Romulans and Federation form an alliance to fight the Dominion War, but it remains a brittle alliance easily disrupted by the Romulans’ internal political strife after the war ends. This can be paralleled with the Krill, who form a brittle alliance with the Union to fight the Kaylon, but that alliance is easily broken by internal political strife within the Krill.
Throughout the run of TNG the Romulans and Klingons make several attempts to form an alliance in secret in order to overpower the Federation in the event of open warfare. These attempts are all exposed by the Federation and the alliance never really forms. Similarly, the Krill and Mocclans succesfully form an alliance in order to overpower the Union. They just didn’t count on the Union forming an alliance with the Kaylon in response. Thus the “Federation” and “Borg” of this universe teamed up against the “Romulans” and “Klingons”.
@@jaanfo3874 every religions extreme believes they are infinitely superior
It’s amazing how quickly you can rise through the ranks when you hold a vendetta.
Telaya went from school teacher to leader of a planet in just over 2 years.
It took less than that for a failed businessman and reality-show host to become POTUS. Politics is an unpredictable sea to sail.
@@danieldickson8591 not a fair comparison, because he tried the election thing out before, but probably was the one the show was shooting for
@@danieldickson8591 That's true.
@@danieldickson8591 Trump is a billionaire, if that is your definition of "failed businessman" then I wouldn't mine failing in that way.
@@MichaelMiller-bs3tz The only thing trump is good at inheriting daddy's money and running business into bankruptcy 6 times. How is that a good businessman?
Thats a fucking chilling line. She only cares about the present and doesnt care how her actions will be viewed when she is long dead
There are a depressingly large number of examples of the same thing in history.
Or even if her people will remain.
I took her remark of "our time in this realm is finite, Captain" to mean something along the lines of "Perhaps, but Ozymandias was long dead when the traveller came upon his stele. None of us can expect our works to last for ever, but if we allow impermanence to dissuade us from creating these works in the first place, then we will have failed before even reaching the first hurdle."
@stephenwood6663 Maintaining a stranglehold on the objectives right in front of you. There's almost as much power in that as maintaining measured and empathic responses over personal bias and feelings.
@@jlinkous05
Empathy in an uncaring universe can prove as destructive as it may be diplomatic. I was in Cologne, Germany the night of the "2015-2016 New Years Eve Assault"; those men, and millions like them, wouldn't have been in Germany, assaulting its female population while burdening their male counterparts with the debt burden of an inclusive welfare state, had bleeding-heart empaths like yourself not gutted it of reason and self-preservational instinct. It is now a self-loathing asylum, buffet, and bordello for the third world. Your attempts at "maintaining measured and empathic responses" made it a cesspool where most won't even celebrate their past, for fear of being called "Nazi".
An open-mind (and society) is like a fortress with its drawbridge down and its doors rattling in the wind.
For those interested, Ozymandias was the Greek name of Ramesses The Great, notable amongst many things for having set up stele across his realm declaring his victory in the Battle of Kadesh, and proclaiming mighty works during the height of the Egyptian New Kingdom period.
The New Kingdom declined relatively shortly after his death, with the precipitious and mysterious bronze age collapse.
I Think Reading Or Watching Watchmen Would Have Given Us The Same Context As Far As The Name Ozymandias Goes
@@Franandlar I’d hope people would just read the history, rather than rely on other fiction sources.
@@Anglomachian True, But The Name Is So Maligned With Watchmen That Most Likely That's The First Place They'll Go
@@Franandlar Why do you capitalize every word?
@@inoch07 I Have Disabilities And I'm Tired Of People Judging Me For My Typing, You Don't Like It, Too Bad
I like moments like this. The show often makes sillier references than this (think Kelly's "I'm a Survivor"), but it's these more intellectual ones that serve to remind you that Ed isn't just a complete screw up, and he was top of his class at Union Point, and he's actually very good at his job.
Well, when we first meet Ed Mercer, he was completely heart broken over the break up of his supposedly perfect marriage and had resorted to drowning his sorrows. Before that, he was supposedly on his way to an Admiral's star.
Its funny Talea uses "light of command or in the darkness of servitude"
Knowing full well what happens to Krills when they reach the light
I wonder if that is a misswrite or a deliberate choice from the writers on this one :o
Probably putting it in a way he understands.
Maybe it’s an equivalent to “one day a lion is better than a lifetime as a sheep” so the light and dark is saying that it’s better to die young as a commander than to live an entire lifetime as a coward
no she ment it. bright bright and short (krill burn bright and shortly in light), or live a dull long life in the darkness. the krill's whole culture is about war, like the spartans.
It is also a hallmark of those who grasp at power unjustly. Just rule, just command, IS servitude.
The difference between a despot and a king, if you will.
It could be a spiritual, or a metaphoric reference.
Telaya's counter at the end made me think of the Kurgan in Highlander. "It's better to burn out, than to fade away."
👅👅👅👅
I can understand how power can have a narcotic effect like a drug.
The Holy Dopamine Ghost via Placebo Faith works in not so mysterious ways.
power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
@@lordmech No...but go ahead and go with that.
@@bleirdo_dude I wouldn't know. I don't get that feeling from anything. Ever.
I think they're still carrying that affection for each other.
And they would have been really great together, if he wasn't a human she was sent to seduce and capture for the Krill
Gotta admire her dedication to her people over herself
Yeah, it's there and there is an amazing story between those two episodes we haven't been told. Ed did care and let that door remain open as a potential bridge for their peoples. But how did Telaya go from selling herself to vengeance to her 'official' front slipping and her care for Ed breaking through for a moment at times? To planning to smuggle him out to safety when she wanted him dead before? To going into a defensive panic at Ed not giving up at the offer to stand together with their child in front of the whole universe? How softly and weakly she said 'No' at first? How her voice cracked when speaking of their child as 'impure?' How tenderly, if guarded, she spoke of giving their daughter her beautiful name?
She had to have gone through some heavy, deep stuff during that pregnancy and probably had a full crisis of faith. If Krill is the work of Avis, then she polluted that work and her government was at fault for promoting the means. She probably felt she had sinned by crossing the line when she didn't need to in order to hook Captain Mercer, then blamed the military and government for altering her body to enable her to conceive not only outside her divine species but with her brother's killer. Not only that, she made him that sandwich! That is a ton of guilt and anger.
Now think about Telaya's reaction to Ed asking why she had their daughter and how powerfully she reacted. That wasn't belief. That was personal. Imagine Telaya back then with the caretaker as a nun who was called in for a special case when the simulation showed the impossible. Her offering comfort and solace to a woman in crisis who tried to terminate the baby growing inside her. Listening to Telaya's confession and how she fell, polluting her race and the work of Avis. How the military and government had no business experimenting with such methods to infiltrate the Union.
Now imagine the caretaker asking if this may actually be Avis advancing his will. Because while Ed does not believe in Avis, he does not seem to actually deny anything. He simply accepts the universe to be whatever it may be. And the cards oddly fall exactly in the right way in his presence for things to unfold as they do. Because how else did Telaya end up the sole adult survivor of THREE entire Krill ships crossing Ed Mercer, one of which was while she was unknowingly carrying this child? Was Avid so weak that he couldn't ensure the impossible odds of nature and man to prevent this child from coming to be? Or was Avis so great that such odds meant nothing to him to ensure the child?
I keep watching this episode, and the more I do the more I see Telaya wanting to say so much but is unable due to impossible circumstances. Best she can do is hint at them.
@@andyhines9070 really want to see a flashback episode (or at least a solid A plot) focusing on teleya and how she deals with this pregnancy (and maybe even giving more of her character’s background/upbringing).
Actually, the only reason they had what they had is that she volunteered to seduce and capture him because she wanted to avenge her brother.
Ok so this is something I slowly starting to realize about the Orville, and start trek most sci go and any show that truly takes advantage of its environment. If you do your job right you can create and environment that allows you to express so many wonderfully abstract ideas that are inspired by the infinite possibility that is space. From that concept so many philosophical and unique stories and parables and lessons has arisen from that random endless void. Whenever the Orville talks about concepts like “flatland” and world inhabited by shapes where what shape you are decides your lot in life. Or this very scene speaking of ozmandias, Star Trek had a lot of amazing stories that really challenge one’s perception of ethics, social constructs and imagination. Love this show so much and hopes it gets renewed for another season :)
I feel like Teleya has feelings for Ed and this whole thing where she is picking a fight with him is her weird way of reconciling those emotions.
I think it's more like active denial. She can't cope with her feelings so she instead lashes out and drives him away.
@@sonicguyver7445 Agreed. She also has this tell. When asked a question that is too disturbing to answer truthfully she can't even lie about it. She leads the questioner to infer what her answer was when she did not actually give an answer. However by this time I think she can't deny it to herself anymore, but can't admit anything for external reasons we haven't been shown.
@@sonicguyver7445 I absolutely agree on this with you.
Teleya has about 3-4 episodes of screen time, yet she is more nuanced and likable than Kelly who had 3 F*cking season!!!!!
Kelly cheats on Ed, and redirects the blame onto Ed
Kelly became a god on a planet and says Sorry, I'm just a human, changes the course of their entire culture and history
Kelly keeps Ed at bay and won't reconcile their relationship turning him into a SIMP
Kelly encounters another Kelly from the past who loves ED, Present Kelly is sickened by how she used to be
Kelly goes back to her time, and rejects ED, thus changing the fate of the Universe!!!!
Teleya is a school teacher, she lost her brother in a war with the Union
Teleya is a follower of Avis, she welcomes Ed to the church
Teleya trusts Ed and hides the children in the classroom
Teleya goes undercover to learn about the Union, goes deep cover and establishes a relationship with ED (yes she sleeps with him)
Teleya and Ed crash lands on a planet, Ed Saves her life
Teleya has a daughter with Ed and becomes Prime Minister of her planet
Teleya secretly spares Ed's life
You be the judge..... who had better chemistry with Ed?
*Seth unintentionally roasts a bald alien as Walter White*
Not only do i hope for season 4 & MORE, i also hope for more Telaya episodes.
Season 4....the "darkness" will make the Krill, Moclan, and Union rethink things
I really hope the Writers keep this captain character on point when I start watching the series in depth
One of the best scenes in any media that represents one of the hardest truths: you cannot reason with one motivated by spite.
THANK YOU!!! Finally someone that thinks of that poem the same way I do 😂
I wonder what she would have made of Sagan's Pale Blue Dot.
She has feelings for him.
...and she HATE that fact.
If She Does, She Has A Crappy Way Of Showing It...
@@Franandlar Conflicting feelings can often lead to crappy behavior.
@@Franandlarlook at their cultures and how everything is going on it’s no wonder she treats him bad
I choose the way of Ozymandis, Damn!
I love that I new about Ozymandias before wathcing this episode, and I recognized it almost immediately
Man I wish this show had more seasons. I loved how much the faction dynamics wildly shift by the end of the series. The status quo is entirely flipped on it's head.
An ironic statement about light and dark considering how the Krill live
I think Telaya knew exactly what she was saying. We were shown beggars and exotic dancers in the streets. Imagine how Telaya would have to survive while carrying an 'impure' child in her arms 'in the darkness of servitude.' That might be a very miserable, bleak existence for them both with no future. It is possible Telaya knows she's going to burn and it will be sooner than later, but her daughter will be safe and well.
I've had to learn this poem for my GCSE English exam
Telaya: The Orville's Version Of Khan
Mini Khan. Definitely not full Khan levels
@@steffanyschwartz7801 Yeah, Sure, She's Not Quoting Paradise Lost Or Moby Dick Every 5 Minutes, But She's Out For Revenge Over The Death Of Her Brother, And This Line Definitely Makes Her Look More Like Khan Because She Lets Her Hubris Cloud Her Judgment
@@steffanyschwartz7801 Ed May As Well Have Said "Telaya, I'm Laughing At The Superior Intelligence"
Or Dukat.
I get what Ozymandias is going for as a warning, however the counter to this parable is that everything decays, not just the great and powerful. Unless you are specifically chasing power so that you will always be remembered its not really a good argument against any specific political decision.
That’s not the point of the poem. Percy is mocking the arrogance of warmongers with a superiority complex: Ramesses was a great conqueror who believed he was blessed by the Gods, but he eventually died and his kingdom is in ruins. Nothing remains of Pi-Ramesses. It decayed just like the house of the lowliest servant. Percy wrote the poem in the aftermath of the Napoleonic Wars: Napoleon died alone in exile two years after the poem was published, and his only legitimate son died childless.
@@thenablade858 I think I do address this point though, and its a bad point regardless. Nothing lasts forever, so the fact that he died and his kingdom decayed does not mean that Ramesses actions were not worthwhile at the time. Also, if they are both equal in death there is equally no point in not trying to achieve great conquest. You are also discounting the hundreds if not thousands of years where Pi-Ramesses did maintain a lasting legacy and his actions had a tremendous effect on the people living during that era.
Its a very defeatist attitude.
Also, many great figures of history have in fact stood the test of time and have massively influenced history in ways that will never not be relevant for as long as our current civilization exists or maintains any kind of knowledge of the past. It is impossible to predict whether or not you will succeed at becoming one of these untill you actually put your foot out and try to make your mark on history.
I really doubt when Alexander the Great marched on Persia he was thinking 'I sure hope people never forget me even a million years from now, if they do it will mean I should have just stayed at home.'
You keep changing your post and everytime you do it removes my reply. This is the third time now.
You have changed your initial statment from Percy 'makeing a point' to Percy 'makeing fun of' ancient conquerors.
As if anything could be more self defeating. If he is trying to make fun of Ozymandias he is not suceeding very well, for all the reasons I mentioned earlier, not to mention the fact that he's breathing life back into the name even as he belittles it.
The Egyptian peasants who didn't conquer are now just as dried up and forgotten as he is, which means there is no reason not to do the things he is makeing fun of for the reasons he gives.
Making fun of Napoleon... I doubt we are going to forget him any time soon, and even when humanity eventually does it will still have no bearing or whether or not Napoleon was doing something worthwhile when he lived.
Either way the poem is not a good argument in this scene.
I always took it to mean that the empty, ruined desert was the thing to look at and despair over. Dipshit ruined an entire nation in the end. It wasn't his death that caused the fall...it was everything he did while he was alive.
Like teaching a child how to be a soldier...but not how to do anything otherwise for itself...even so much as feed itself. The instant you're gone...that individual dies.
"This wasteland is my fault, because I was a shitty ruler."
Honestly, they could just shine a planet sized light on to the planet and win the war against the Krill
I'm so sad that we won't get a resolution to this conflict since the show was canceled.
Good point well taken.... from the higher ground.
I don’t know how the heck you got that loading symbol on this comment, but it’s a fun trip down memory lane. Last I recall seeing that was in prep
@@lochness5524 🤣
I truly hope to see more seasons of the Orville if only to see that egg salad sandwich randomly plop on the science table.
Though I also hope to see more of those necromorph like insects species come back into play. Even the original start trek, they never ran into a problem where a virus forcibly transformed a being into another species.
You should finish season 3, you wont be dissapointed
Edit: TNG had an episode where a virus de-evolved the crew, so kind of similar
@More-reasons I don't think de-evolving counts though since it isn't a species becoming something different since its regressing
The sandwich comes back when it mattered most
This interaction was so Hard
i was really hoping she would see the good side and they would become a couple, can't say she would see the light because that's her death
Her sentiment in my opinion is correct
The Roman empire was not built in a day and it's better to burn up and shine brighter then anyone before you then to slowly shrivel up and fade away
The Roman Empire wasn’t built in a day, but once it was built it endured in one form or another for 2,000 years, from the founding of Rome to the fall of Constantinople.
The Romans weren’t the sort to build temporary edifices to their transitory glory and vanity - they built to last. Their greatest achievements weren’t statues, they were roads and aqueducts and bridges that in some form or another endure to this day across Europe, and they were ideas and laws and social orders that transcended their nation and also continue to this day.
Rome was a culture OBSESSED with endurance. It’s a bad example you gave there.
@@RogueShadows
Well moreso what I meant was the phrase Rome wasn't built in a day and you are correct their obsession with endurance and survival but Rome was at various points in a very precarious situation and if caution or hesitation was chosen that Empire would not have existed
The wars with Carthage the various civil wars hell the circumstances of the empire being formed from the dead carcass of the Roman republic could've doomed Rome as a civilisation to fall given certain choices being made differently but Irregardless my point wasn't about vanity and building monuments it was about striking while the iron is hot and not letting an opportunity slip through your fingertips because of hesitation
That’s all well and good, but you can’t use that mentality as a leader. You’re responsible for too many people to act vainly and arrogantly.
Eventually it will all fade away. Most people barely know anything about Roman leaders, the most famous one was Julius and that’s partially because of his infamous assassination. The poem isn’t about building civilizations to sustain people (like aqueducts, schools, hospitals etc) but the arrogance of rulers with a superiority complex who’s legacy is ultimately death and oblivion: Egypt never reached the power it had under Ramesses II, and it was eventually conquered by the Persians.
So shes going to hit New York with a space squid?
I feel like that “light” vs “darkness” contrast with light as positive and darkness as negative doesn’t make sense from a Krill
poor ed 😭
Think about it this way... It would've all been desert if the eponymous emperor hadn't commissioned that statue.
And what’s wrong with that? Desert lasts longer than any statue. The point is that Ramesses believed he was ‘blessed’ by the Gods, but Egypt never regained the ultimate power that it had during his reign after his death. It was eventually conquered by the Persians, then Alexander, the Romans etc.
He brings up that story but it could easily apply to his union.
That’s the point. Nothing lasts forever, and the Krill are incredibly arrogant and believe they are superior to everybody else just like Ozymandias/Ramesses did, but they are equal to the Union in that they are equal in death and eventual oblivion.
1:15 Sooo… you choose death!😂
Then you will go the way, of Ozymandius…..
Hmmm she sorta missed the point of what he was saying.
We she did think Belloq was the hero in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
She acknowledged the point but felt that since all things end it is better to have a moment of triumph.
She basically fired back with 'it's better to burnout than fade away'.
I.E. We're all going to die anyway, so it's better to try and aim as high as you can with what time you have.
No she didn’t. She understood perfectly. But what she values is radically different. She does not fear eventual obscurity of her mark on the universe, only that she never went far enough to have made a mark at all.
Every once in a while Seth isn’t funny, he’s just smart.
I still say she needs a bigger role.
Soooooo.... she chose to disapear and die
She should have listened to Ed.
so he banged that lizard right???
yes
There is no way to sugarcoat it, ed is chad
ed is a gigachad. he even has a daughter with her.
Shouldn't light dark be reversed cus they're krill
kek
She probably said that so as to make it easier for Ed to understand her point, using language in his cultural lens in a world where daylight is natural
light is still a good thing for the krill, just not too much of it
Seska really enjoys her plastic surgery, doesn't she?
You could always edit the title and spell "hubris" correctly.
I had to consult Merriam Webster to believe it. The englisch word "hubris" is nearer to greek than the german word "Hybris". Thanks for the hint.
I don't like how they twisted the Bible verse about King Jesus who was the word The living word the son of the living God there wasn't no call for that.
At the end I actor forget the character that actor will bow they need to Jesus and give an account for that it's statesman's like that. Get you completely out of how good the show is in into what the heck would that actor or actress thinking to agree to speak that line they should have said no to the director.
It ruined a otherwise good scene.
or, you know, they really don't have any interest in your deity. They may have their own deity of choice or even none at all. Your particular deity might be important to you, but it's not important to everyone. I have no deity and as far as I'm concerned when I die I will end and my atoms will eventually become something else. It's kind of comforting. But I won't care as I won't exist. And that's comforting too.