New Ribbon Burner Forge
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 кві 2023
- I have been thinking about building a ribbon burner forge for several years. But thinking about it doesn't get the job done, so I ordered one thats ready to go right out of the box from Dark Star Forges. The decision to buy a ribbon burner forge vs building a ribbon burner for is really one based on preferring to spend my time in the shop forging and making videos instead of building a forge.
Not a sponsored video
darkstarforges.com/
/ darkstarforge
Blacksmith Supply: www.blacksmithsupply.com/
Use discount code "bear5"
Combat Abrasives - bit.ly/3r73P8d
Use code "Blackbear10" for a discount on your next order
Anvil provided by; Fontanini Anvil
www.stevefontaniniblacksmith.com
Precut blanks for forging available from:
www.blacksmithingblanks.com
use coupon code John at checkout.
My blacksmiths apron
www.Forge-Aprons.com use code BBF
Music sourced through Epidemic sound
www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
Become a Patron - / blackbearforge
Donate - www.paypal.me/BlackBearForge
Shop - www.blackbearforge.etsy.com
Web site - www.blackbearforge.com
Instagram - / blackbearfo. .
FaceBook - / john.blackbe. .
John Switzer channel - / johnswitzer
Some of my most used gear*
Canon EOS R6 Mirrorless Camera - adorama.rfvk.net/b3yZ7v
Canon EOS R Mirrorless Camera - adorama.rfvk.net/J50gq
Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L Lens - adorama.rfvk.net/6bb7yV
Canon RF 15-35mm f/2.8 L Lens - adorama.rfvk.net/rneRoG
Sony ZV1 point and shoot camera - adorama.rfvk.net/BXKMkJ
Rode Wireless Go microphone - adorama.rfvk.net/YggLRm
Deity V Mic D3 pro - adorama.rfvk.net/mxO51
Insta360 One X2 - www.insta360.com/sal/one_x2?i...
Insta360 Go2 - www.insta360.com/sal/go_2?ins...
Autel Evo II pro drone - auteldrones.com/?ref=HUB40s11...
Autel Evo Nano+ drone - auteldrones.com/?ref=HUB40s11...
*Links include affiliate links
Mailing address:
Black Bear Forge
P.O. Box 4
Beulah, CO 81023
Below you will find useful links that will help you in your journey as a blacksmith.
To find more information in blacksmithing in the US or to search for your local ABANA affiliate group visit.
www.abana.org/
Blacksmithing tools and supplies
Self contained air hammers - www.saymakhammers.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.oleoacresfarriersupply.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.piehtoolco.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.centaurforge.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.blacksmithsdepot.com/
General blacksmithing supplies - www.blacksmithsupply.com/
Square head bolts and lags - www.blacksmithbolt.com/
New anvils - www.oldworldanvils.com/
New anvils - www.nimbaanvils.com/
New anvils -
Industrial supplier - www.mcmaster.com
Tong blanks and tools - kensironstore.com/
Fire brick and refractory - refwest.com
Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.t yourself.
From what I've been able to learn, the ribbon burner being more fuel efficient, is more or less a myth. A few people have done proper testing with identical forge builds, but different burners, and the results are essentially the same. This makes sense, as there is only so many BTUs in a lb of propane. However, PRACTICAL efficiency vs THEORETICAL is something to consider. Venturi style burners tend to be "quick and dirty" builds, and are often difficult to tune to exactly the right fuel/air mix, so often run a bit rich. They also tend to have a narrow range where they work perfectly, then performance drops off a bit as you increase or decrease pressure. Blown ribbon burners give you the ability to tune them perfectly at any point on their range, so you get full efficiency. They also run at far lower pressure. Since small tanks tend to ice up and pressure drops as they get low on propane, the blown ribbon burner will still run for longer, not because it's more efficient, but because it doesn't leave as much "waste" propane in the tank. Lastly, most people build their first forge with a venturi burner. Those first forges tend to be flawed, unbalanced designs, that often burn more gas than needed. (Mine is definitely in this category, for now) Ribbon burners are usually used on 2nd or 3rd attempts, so they go into better built, better insulated forges, and presto, they use less gas. Regardless, that thing is a beauty, and should be a nice addition to the lineup.
Excellent thoughts on the subject, thanks for the input.
When I went from a standard Venturi to a ribbon burner, It was a world of difference when it came to propane. Only drawback was I had to switch to 2 instead of one to get the flow rate needed without freezing the propane tank. I went from having to have my propane at around 10-15th I to 3-5psi
I’m not sure that you would get equal efficiency if you can’t turn it off and on when doing your videos. That’s a lot of extra fuel being burned.
I watch yours and others videos like I am getting to visit a friend. The background noise make the visit more enjoyable. The background sound of the forge and to make it like There enjoying a little time with a good friend.
Great video work John! Looks like a great forge
So far I am enjoying it, even though there is a bit more start up process.
Everybody I've seen who talked about their ribbon burner forge has said that they're able to use lower pressure than a venturi to obtain the same heat, which is supposedly the reason for the quieter burn. They say only welding requires turning the pressure up.
I don't know if there was any audio editing involved, but this forge at least sounded quieter on video than the other.
I really hope you do a video of how to adjust the flame on this. I recently bought one and the person I got it from is zero help. I called and spoke to him and told him before I bought it I would have questions as I have only used a coal forge. Thank you for all that you do for the profession!
Thanks for showing us your new tool. I'm excited to see how it works for you!
If you prop that front brick, so the opening is on the bottom, you can slide long stock in and out, without moving the doors, which will result in higher chamber temperature and lower heat times. That's how I designed mine and it works a treat.
I work for a railroad in a heavy repair shop, they had a ribbon burner that ran on natural gas!
Tom was a friend that worked in that section of the shop!
I was always amazed!
I think most of you runs your going to like the ribbon burner forge!
I like the transitioning. Thanks for putting those little shots in of you taking it off the truck.
Now this dude is dripping with wisdom. A man with this much blacksmithing experience who knows he better let the experts in ribbon forging build it, instead of wasting his time trying to build one.
I built a ribbon burner and forge from scratch, because I can convince myself doing it the hard way is cheeper; and while I’m still learning all its quirks, I still really like it over the Venturi burner I was using before. I expect you’ll really enjoy using yours!
The smoothest way to light mine I’ve found is to use a ferro rod to light some steel wool and chuck it in, then turn on the air, then the gas. Previously, I had trouble with the air blowing out whatever I was using to light with, but the air just makes steel wool burn brighter.
Same - and mine came out nice and I LOVE it over the atmo-nozzle burners in the big Forge.
very interesting. Thank you John
Great Job with the new forge John, that's a good looking and working unit. Thanks for the information about the unit. Stay safe and keep up the good videos . Fred.
Cool new piece of equipment, looking forward to hearing it function in the future.
I built over 200 of these 25 years ago..... sold them from one end of NZ to the other.... still have my personal one (which was built to go on my truck so the fan is 12 volt DC)....
Our name for them was "linear burner"... works well... no jets to clog... they do need a power fail gas solenoid for safety. Mine all had piezo ignition built in and a two speed fan motor...easy to start too... I have made thousands of horseshoes in mine, and other things too...
I love my ribbon burner. I really haven't noticed much difference when it comes to fuel consumption, but I really don't pay too much attention to it. The reason I went to the ribbon burner is the quieter running and the evenness of heating I get. Hope you enjoy yours.
I built my ribbon burner a few years ago and I’m really impressed. I started with a N/A burner then quickly made it into a forced air burner. I really liked it, I seen 2775* F out of it. But it was a small forge. After learning about ribbon burners I decided it was time to build a new forge. They’re definitely not disappointing. Although mine puts a lot of heat out of the front door. But my burner is coming in at a steep angle creating a swirling flame, making a very even heat area.
What is the difference between a ribbon forge and an atmospheric forge?
@@glencrandall7051 Ribbon Burner has an air blower on it to blow the gas into the forge, the atmospheric brings outside air to mix with the gas in the burners. The ribbon burners usually have many small flames instead of 2 or 3 large ones.
Yeah I have 28 - 5/16” holes on my ribbon burner (which is a 8”x3” burner) and my N/A burner was a 1” pipe with a 1.75” flare on the end.
Basically 1 big opening vs multiple small openings. If you google it you will find many pictures of them that explains them quite well.
Good discussion and comparison.
Looks like a pretty slick set up!
I'm building the ribbon burner kit from Housemade; it's a side-mounted burner, but other than that very similar, so this was helpful. Thanks, as always.
That looks like a nice forge John, i'm sure it will serve you well.
I love that truck. Thanks for the pros and cons list. I don't have a designated space for any of my Maker hobbies so mobility is critical for all equipment. If I ever clean out the shed and get some lights in there, that's where I plan to stick everything. The garage is the designated home gym and I refuse to clutter it up with other stuff. The one reason I might opt to upgrade to the Ribbon in the future is that I hate spending longer on fit and finish than on the forging. I get antsy and start feeling like I'm wasting time and should move on to other projects. But that's all years down the road anyway.
Excited to hear how your experience with the new forge goes! I'm in the middle of putting together a ribbon burner forge myself (from a kit), I'm working in a small shed so having reduced dragon's breath will be a great benefit. Thanks for sharing, hope it works out well for you!
I have a really small gass forge, but the dragons breath is horrible on it. That might be an option as soon as I have access to power in my shop (which is currently outside and has to be moved back in after my work is done)
Thanks for this video John. I am considering a gas forge addition to my shop. I will be looking forward to seeing how it turns out for you.
Wow that's a beautiful forge. Hopefully you get great use out of it for many years to come my friend. Can't wait to see more videos soon. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Forge On. Fab On. Weld On. Keep forge lit
Keep Making. God Bless
Someone in one of the Facebook groups I'm in makes a round ribbon burner they claim that, if the blower goes out, it won't back up and explode. Part of me wants to try one of his forges, then i remember I don't have a shop yet. One day.
This looks like a great tool for your workshop. Its chamber is wide and allows pieces of various sizes. I needed to build 3 gas forges to get a good result on the last one. But I basically work with blades and the chamber needs to be narrow and deep. Congratulations!
That ribbon burner looks good, and Molly has been interested in similar by a gas forge builder in our town for some time. It will be most interesting to watch your progress, and am sure my daughter would echo my sentiments. This looks exciting and I am most happy for you, John. Have a good week! Best, Wendi 🌻
I have a few different forges and absolutely love my ribbon burner. I run a 40lbs propane tank and noticed I can run it at least 1/3rd longer then my 2 burner forge and roughly 2x longer then my single burner forge. Plus I don’t have an issue with icing on my tank.
Have enjoyed, learned
I’ve really been enjoying the recent videos where you’re exploring your options around the shop and trying new equipment.
Another excellent video sir.
Super exciting for your shop. I recall it has been years since you first talked about trying a ribbon burner. Here's hoping it really really helps your work somehow. Thanks for sharing!
thats a nice forge
i've just got a coal forge that i made out of chipper blades and coal from tractor supply. would be kinda cool to someday have a care in the small differences and advantages of multiple different forges
How well do you like tractor supply coal?
@@CarlJohnson-ry3gc rice coal burns way to fast, nut coal is decent, but absolutely no way to get a good forge weld. so..... eh, its what i got
I built a force air gas Forge runs on 2 1/2 PSI not sure on air psi or cfm works well for me interesting video thanks for sharing blessings to you and yours ✝️ stay safe
It seemed quieter than the other gas forge on video anyway. Thanks for sharing John!!!
Hello John
Gratulation to to the New Forge.
I wish a good New week take care
Yours Frank Galetzka
It’s amazing. I want one too but i’m on south korea, having delivery problem, so planning make one. But it is being hesitating being failure and choosing part for propane about safty.
I still like your c10 John i drive a 87 chevy v10. I hope the new forge works out for you godbless and be safe.
@BlackBearForge you can add a PID temperature controller for more accurate temperature control...as well, once it's setup properly, it will actually switch the gas off and on automatically, which results in increased fuel efficiency...there are numerous tutorial videos on UA-cam, but @TyrellKnifeworks has a really good step-by-step for adding a PID controller
I would love to see a day in the life of production blacksmithing.
Black Smith, hmmmm, forges me a reverse blade of peace sword.. hmmmm.. I beg you.
I like your truck
I love mine. Yes it takes longer to heat up, but the best forges ive ever seen take a minimum of 1 hour to heat up.
Great video!
Alway nice to get a new toy. Enjoy your day John.
Its always nice to get a turn key piece of equipment. I have built several pieces for my woodworking shop but most of the time I prefer something that is engineered and manufactured. A little forge noise is not going to bother my enjoyment of your videos.
Sorry for the unfinished comment. Have enjoyed, learned, and been inspired ny you for several years and finally became a member. Thanks for all your thought and effort. At my age (76), I probably shouldn't spend more money on a new forge. I really, really miss my side draft forge but it isn't practical where I now live. 8 years ago I bought a Majestic 3 burner with s side door. Very noisy, very hot, and too much scale. No way to adjust the air so I feel the flame is too oxidizing. Any advice would be appreciated. Dark Star's air is adjustable. Greatly looking forward to your experiences with the new forge.
No problem, its easy to hit that send button before you're ready. You might be able to add a choke to your burned air intake to reduce the air flow, but I'm no familiar with what those burners look like.
@@BlackBearForge That thought crossed my mind shortly after I sent the comment. I have a method to shut off the air flow when I'm not using one or two of the burners. I will try to use one of those to control the air flow into the burner. Thanks John.
John, I know you said the decibels are about the same, but it honestly sounded quieter on the video volume. I don’t think it will be an issue having it run constantly while filming.
King
A great tool for the shop,
Like a new pair of shoes, keep the old pair just in case.
What a wonderful video thanks man :)
You're welcome
Друг! Когда возникает необходимость узнать расход газа, нужно просто поставить счётчик газа и померять расход либо за час либо за одинаковый рабочий день!
All three forges I’ve built have been ribbon burners. I like being able to dial in exactly the flame I want by adjusting the air and the gas.
In researching it, it seemed that getting an atmospheric forge to run right required that I buy a burner or fiddle around getting the shape of the flare etc. just right. Since I prefer to make what use, I opted for the ribbon burner… the last one I built has angled ports so there are no hot spots…
i haven't yet seen really any difference between ribbon and regular. The problem with the ribbon burner is that the main reason why you need forced air flow is because it itself is such an enormous parasitic airflow obstacle.
A noise canceling mic can help with the forge noise
Will be interesting long term to see your evaluation
I run a single burner Chilli forge and go against their recommendation of not gating the openings, it helps with economy and heat efficiency
I have sliding bricks like this ribbon forge, just open when lighting and re-lighting to save explosion
I like the idea of the gap at the top of the gates on this ribbon forge
Great video as always 👍
Thanks!
Thank you
One comment on the Chili Forge: I have one, have used it for almost ten years, and I have never had to run it wide open. I usually run it at 7 psi at about 30° open (out of 90°). I typically only use 1 burner of the two for most knives, bottle openers and steak turners. I have the back end partially blocked by a fire brick (1x6 gap). I use both burners when I am making long blades to austenize and quench. Dragons breath is usually not a big deal. Maybe the mass of what you are typically working with (2 or 3 hold fasts) needs two burners at full throttle, but I have never seemed to need that, even when working on 3"x7" cable damascus (both valves at 30°). Maybe you are running yours too hard??
I rarely run the Chile Forge a full pressure. Then its only for forge welding. Altitude also plays a part at 6500 feet, anything less than 21 psi won't reach welding tempo for mild steel.
@@BlackBearForge Ah, I wondered about that. I'm only at 2200. Thanks for your channel!
Looks awesome!
How are you handling carbon monoxide buildup in the shop?
On previous video left ideas on quick bolt sorters
Seems not as noisy to me. Could be that your decibel meter is just noting overall sound energy and the noise just sounds less annoying to me. Also, depends on the scale. Most apps are going to use A weighted scale but it might be different on the C scale which is used for measuring industrial noise. It really does not matter. At that volume the apparent noise is what is important anyway. It is up to your senses, what sounds better. I'm surprised with all the extra brick and steel it is not less noisy but then it has a forced air induction noise to add to the burner noise. Have fun with your new tool.
Realizing that I wasn't getting younger, I bought and installed a Harbor Freight pickup bed hoist to make my life easier and prevent any further back injury toting heavy things and I highly recommend it. Consider adding one of these (to me) essential tools to your repertoire.
Thank you again for an informative video. I’m about to outgrow my “dirt box” forge and have been trying to figure out what to replace it with. A member of my state’s blacksmith organization recommended the Chili Forge. He said it would get up to welding temperatures. I am a little concerned about the wool breaking down and me breathing it in. What are your thoughts on wool vs brick?
The wool lining does heat up faster and they are well coated from Chile Gorge. Any damage in use is pretty easy to coat over. I have done lots of forge welding in the Chile Forge, so they are certainly up to the task.
Its bs that you had to pay full price for that! They just got a ton a free advertising, I’d never heard of a ribbon burner forge now I’m interested.
Good news about the forges being on wheels: if you want to work with the power out, you can just bring in the old forge.
Also, i would probably wire in a power switch for the blower rather than needing to plug and unplug the extension cord constantly. Maybe a switched outlet on the cart with a longer power cord.
Thats my plan
The larger opening I'm sure will be nice. That is what I constantly fight with my gas forge. How big is the opening?
I also like the hard lining, even though it takes a little longer to heat up
5 Months to late 😉
Mr Blackbear John not to name him would have been real nice as looking at this is like the unimaginable Holliday present good for you looking forward to see how you find it .Thanks Take Care Enjoy
I've worked in a home built ribbon burner forge and one thing the owner said is that they can run at low fuel psi because the blower creates the pressure.
That might be comparable sound in person but on the video it definitely sounds much quieter than the Chili 🌶️ Forge sounded on video when you had it running on video so unless that’s editing it is quieter
An inline flow meter can help you determine fuel economy.
I was playing in my forge just yesterday and was wondering if there is any kind of foot controlled valve that a person can put on their propane line to decrease fuel consumption when you’re at the anvil?
I have never seen one done with a foot valve, but I have seen smaller secondary burners that essentially serve as a pilot light so the forge re lights easily.
I don't think it will work with a blown burner, but there are "idler circuits" that do pretty much that. Essentially the fuel line has a shut-off valve, but there is a small line that bypasses the valve with a small needle valve to control flow. Shutoff open, the forge runs full throttle. Shutoff closed, only a small amount goes through the needle valve, and the forge "idles". Rigging some sort of foot controls shouldn't be that difficult for it.
Which forge did you get? Is that the medium one?
It is the medium size
I’m shore no one will mine the forge raw like u said it’s more realistic
And if one of my fellow cubs hahahaha do mind come on guy the easy we help make his job the more vids we get wow
Do you still like the forge after 10 months? Have you forge welded in it? I am looking for the do everything gas forge, because i am not able to use a coal forge. My wife has respiratory issues.
Yes i do. I haven't done any welding in it yet, but it should do well for that
Thanks for letting me know. Happy Easter!
I'd love to see how quickly and efficiently this gets up to welding temp vs. the other one. Thank you for all the great content.
Looks like a nice unit Presumably if it has some kind of solenoid controlling gas glow, you could hook up a foot pedal to a potentiometer or something of the sort to go from an idle flow to keep it warm to full flow for working temperature. Might not be applicable in your setup other than for background noise, but for guys on a smaller bottle, it definitely helps with consumption. Works a bit like the adjuster on a gas range unit but hands free.
I wonder if you can run it on natural gas??? I also wonder if you could run the chilli forge on natural gas ???
meh...the power hammer is louder than the forge..lol. Personally I don't mind the forge noise!!
Thanks
Would have been wise to explain what a ribbon burner forge is to us non-blacksmiths. Sure, there is google, but then if I leave the video to google it...
Instead of one or two or three burners, a ribbon burner has dozens of holes bored or formed into a block. It gives you a wall of fire if you will. A wide even heat source.
Over the years John's tried to explain things extensively. But as the years have passed. The explanations aren't quite at a first day beginners level. And honestly, that would make all of the videos longer. I would guess that its our fault if there is fault. He has gotten used to our questions. With over 200 thousand followers, quite a few of us have been around for a few years. He still attempts to thoroughly explain everything, but on a bit higher level. He doesn't spend a tremendous amount of time on equipment. He does however spend time on and make videos centered around the handtools. This channel is more about the craft.
I joined the iforgeiron forums. Now over there, they get snippy and snarky if you haven't done your homework. They want you to be mildly educated before you ask a question. The payback comes in the wealth of knowledge you can search through there.
Hopefully you'll subscribe and stick around. And go to his channel and browse through the videos. He's shared a ton with us. And I hope John continues to make videos for years to come. Come along for the ride!
I'm thinking about getting a gas forge for myself. I would imagine it would be better for your health than coal smoke which is starting to bother me. Thanks for the video, looking forward to watching you use it.
Unless you use extra oxygen(both fan and venturi burner draw same 21% oxygen from air) it wont run any more efficient or hotter than venturi burner. To heat up certain amount of space you need certain amount of gas -doesn't matter what type of burner you use as long as it mixes gas and air optimally and its large enough to deliver that amount.
Honestly with the mic on you, you could narrate during forging.. we will hear you.
With the forge being a constant noise source you could use a noise reduction plug in on your audio track. That would make your Voice Over pop while reducing the roar of the forge. Just don’t over do the reduction or you will sound like a robot.
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🥃🥃🥃☕️☕️☕️👍👍👍🍻🍻🍻👀👀👀🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I would like to know how hard is it to get a neutral flame. The forge I have now burns all the carbon up and leaves cold shut like cracks.
@catchesstripes: How did you trace your cold shut /shunt problem to a root cause of the forge burning up all the carbon? I'm seeing a similar but not same problem.
I think i got a hernia just watching you lift it out of the bed 😖
I prefer voice overs.