@@IsaacSnyder-s9v check the official Klipper documentation for "Enhanced delta calibration". I recommend to scale up the calibration print for better results.
i have V400 and i have set print speed to 250, print acceleration to 4000. this has helped me a lot to get better prints. changing Acceleration had the biggest impact for me. i had seen you were using default settings for this in your video. Also you may try setting top/bottom pattern to zig zag. I would be very interested to see if this resolves your issue.
Thanks for commenting! I was printing at low speed (120) - not sure about acceleration tbh. But thanks for this tip! Atm I am working on my Calibration video after I have setup "original" Klipper (see also other video). After that I want to do another snowflake and I hope it will be much better...
I agree with @mastermaker666, that your print looks under extruded. I have a Hatchbox Alpha delta printer (an older printer) and I do not have this problem. I use a 0.4mm nozzle, and Cura 5.4.0. My "spokes" vary from 1.84 to 1.88mm. I could be wrong, but I attribute this variance to the very long bowden tube setup the HB Alpha has. I envy the V400's direct drive configuration. I would recommend researching your line width settings. But before you do that, get your printer calibrated (which it looks like you are doing, but specifically look at your extruder's steps per unit of measure calibration), then move to filament calibration. Generally, the order for filament calibration is bed adhesion to print temperature to flow rate to retraction to print speed settings. There is much debate about this topic in the 3d printing community, but I believe that the line width (in Cura, Quality->Line Width) should be something slightly greater than the nozzle diameter. I believe the Simplify 3D folks suggested 0.48 for a 0.4 nozzle. With that set, print a 20mm calibration cube with 2 walls (Cura: Walls->Wall Line Count) with 0 top and bottom layers (Cura: Top/Bottom->Top Layers, Bottom Layers). Measure the width of the walls of the cube from the top. You can adjust filament density or flow rate settings to get the right wall (and therefore line) width. You can look at the width and placement of the walls from the bottom and make adjustments for elephant feet and the like. Consider settings like: Initial Layer Height, Initial Layer Line Width, Initial Layer Horizontal Expansion, Initial Layer Flow, and so on. That's your flow rate stuff, so move forward to calibrate your retraction and print speed settings. Once you have that, then try the, "SnowFlake" print again and see how things look. I look forward to hearing about your results. Good luck!
Thanks for commenting! Yes I am already trying to deal with it. It will depend on what exactly you want to do with the printer. If you are out for technical parts and you need precision of less than +/- 0.1mm, then I assume you will need to do the next step and upgrade to original klipper (not the FLSUN Version of Klipper). I have already done a video on that one - how to do that. At the moment there is again an offer for the printer at tomtop... not sure if this is interesting for you or from where you from... if you are from Europe, that may be interesting for you.
@@Artbyebob Well, not the worst choice! A Voron is also on my list and for sure will be next, when the V400 is dialed in (2-6months I assume). A Voron will have so much more content also for my little channel. Also looking forward to that - funny how similar personal interests can be!
It's the same problem that I (and others) had with the Rostock V2. The Rostock was fair at making doo-dads, not good at all in making compliant parts. And just out of curiosity, has FLSun been of any use at all? They were completely useless as they couldn't even be bothered to replace the bad SD card that they included with the printer.
Thank you for your comment. In my community the enhanced delta calibration was already done (more than once). The issue does not disappear, maybe it gets a little bit better.
@@sebastianlopezalejos Yes, maybe that is a good idea for new content. I think about that. It will take me at least 10 days (more likely 2weeks), as I have atm no access to my V400.
Oh wow... and here I wanted to upgrade to the V400 becasue I cannot figure out why my Super racer is doing this.... I do not have the Data logged as you do, but I clearly noticed that prints always have an "Open" side. I moved away from Cura as Prusa slicer set to 40% overlap sort of fixes the problem for me. but I think i loose quality becasue of this. also printing PETG slower than an Ender3, not cool. I do hope there is some sort of answer here... for now then I will only upgrade the SR with the V400 Effector and wait for this problem to be settled.
Have you started using Cura 5.4 yet? I am running that now, and it seems to be much better than all other versions of Cura. However, I have not yet performed any precision test as you have. Thank you.
Those top surfaces look very under-extruded, the cheat fix for under extrusion is to increase line width by 0.1-0.2(any line width up to 50-60% larger than the nozzle usually don't affect accuracy in any noticeable way so 0.6 lines out of a 0.4 nozzle is usually unproblematic) and flow in 5-10% increments and print again, then repeat as needed until the problem is sufficiently fixed or things start looking too over extruded(at which point you obviously choose the last setting that wasn't too over extruded).. Bit odd that it's under extruding as every v400 seem to have over extrusion issues rather than under extrusion issues....
Hey Thomas! Thanks for commenting on my video. A you mean the top layer of the surrounding area of the snowflake, right? Yes, those could be better, but this was not my original problem. Basically my problem was/ is that the print is too wide on some areas. When filming this, I had too much width by 0.2mm up to 0.4mm. Meanwhile I updated to original Github Klipper and did the full Setup/Calibration (well not the full one, but more than 80% I would say...). My accuracy increased to a deviation of 0 to max. 0.20 - 0.25mm (I would say closely doubled the precision). So already better but not yet perfect. Once I have time for the toplayers, I will come back for your comment, thanks!!
@@craftingmat5425 Have since bought a V400 and I may have a fix for the split walls. Use an odd number of lines for the walls, appears to be a delta quirk where 3 lines of simultaneous non-cartesian movements needed for every single nozzle position translated into a cartesian coordinate system causes issues with even numbers. Was using 3 lines but was having bleed-through issues but no split walls so upped the number to 4, and I started getting split walls, upped the number of lines to 5 and the splits went away. Also found that I would get shades of splits when printing something that was exactly 2 walls thick(ie 5 lines+5lines with no infill between), lowering the thickness by one line width so that I would get a line printed in the middle rather than a line on either side of the middle, bringing the line number back to an odd number and those also went away....
No I am pretty sure it is not the slicer. Today I will upload my next video - I updated to original Klipper. I did not yet Calibrate my Printer, but I think the precision will be better after that. Thanks for your comment - appreciated!
I recently was working on a model with quite big top layer (circle, 25cm diameter) and was facing similar issues, in my case I had a bit of underextrusion in some areas of the print bed, no matter how many top layers I used (tbh I stopped after using 6). After multiple calibrations and tests (and kilograms of filament...) I don't think that there's a solution to that that would include calibration, unless there's some other form of calibration we don't know about. The weird part in my case is that the issue is usually happening every 2 infill lines (when using monotonic infill), and happens every single line when using archimedean chords infill. Did you have any breakthrough with this issue? I'm ready to say that it's a delta thing and we won't be able to fix it, but I really don't want to loose the rest of hope I still have!
Interesting. I have a FLSUN QQ-S Pro and developed a star pattern which consists of 3 lines, of single layer height, for each "arm". I performed the basic bed curvature calibration and when printing this object I observed no gaps whatsoever. The outer lines are printed first with the inner line printed afterwards and it fits perfectly. The fact that the anomaly occurs at 120 degree spacing suggests it is definitely a motion artifact. I wasn't quite clear whether the affected "arms" fall mid-way between the vertical towers where the position is defined by two adjacent towers and there is a relative positioning error between them? Maybe you can develop some additional test shapes to exercise this idea?
Hello Neil, thanks for your comment. No, the defect is not exactly midways between two towers. It is one arm left or one arm right of it (depending if running Cura 4 or Cura 5). I think it is a precision topic. When checking this issue with Simplify3D I found out that the calibration snowflake (which was not my design in the first place) in fact is designed to have a size of 1,75mm thickness of each arm - meaning, there is already a 0.15mm gap designed in the middle of each arm. Basically, the printer is not translating 1,75mm 3D Model to 1,75mm in reality but up to 2.20mm in reality -> this is a precision issue. Again: It should measure 1,75mm... but it is not. It is at least 1.8mm and if the precision-glitch is striking... it is even more (like 2.20mm (resulting in a visible gap), which is close to 0.5mm - which I consider by no stretch of imagination "ok"). My printer does not extrude too much, I calibrated it accordingly.
Did you try a slower print speed. I've got two of these printers and I'm about 200 prints along, they quality has been impressive but the Cura z-hop command is not used by Klipper. Flsun's solution is 10% lower flow, but some prints have to run at 250mm/sec or they get punted off the build plate.
Thanks for your comment! Yes, this was printed (very) slow at 120mm/s (it is also mentioned in the video). I think I will go with original Klipper soon... I have found hints that this will improve a lot. I will also do another video when I do that (so a bit more content for my channel). But I cannot do this now, this will happen in next 2-3 weeks I guess.
@@craftingmat5425 please see my comment. Don't look like i tagged you correctly. I'm willing to work with you and do what it takes to resolve this as I have spent countless hours on my QQs pro trying to fix this and my brand new Super Racer has the same exact issue.
@@craftingmat5425 the only thing that helped so far with my QQs pro is giving the C tower carriage bearings a lot more play, which is not a good solution as I can't print fast then.
I don't own a Delta printer but if I had to guess, I would blame rounding errors somewhere in the conversion from orthogonal axis to the delta configuration.
Thanks for your comment. Yes that is possible. Up to now I do not see a better solution than going with a "proper" klipper. I think it will either dramatically improve with original klipper or it will be completely done. By the way - the original snowflake was not my design. And I found out, that it already has a gap by design. The proper measurement should be 1,8mm (where I see the gaps, it has around 2,1-2,2mm). Surprisingly it was not created to have 4x the nozzle size (4x0.4mm = 1.6mm), it is 4x0.4mm plus 0.2mm in the middle as a gap. So to be clear on this one -> the gap should be either visible at all of the snowflake arms/beams or it should not be visible, but the size should be 1.8mm on each and every arm/beam. I am looking forward to the original klipper test. I will do at least 2 new videos on the klipper install and the calibration of the printer. Once that is done I will repeat the Snowflake test.
That is exactly what I have concluded after switching every part of my QQs pro that could possibly effect this. Plus buying a SuperRacer which had the same problem. My bed slinger has the same problem, tho not nearly as bad. I think there are rounding errors when 2 or more motors have to move together at the same time with bed slingers. Obviously on a delta all three move together all the time which probably is what makes it worse on a delta. Marlin and Klipper did not help at all for me.
@@natewipf5064 Fun fact: I am working as Dept.Head of a company producing high precision bonders for semiconductor industry. I do this as a profession. We have a saying for that: "Any movement done is wrong" -> meaning once we move one motor, we correct the movement after OpticalInspection confirmation. Of course we have several methods to make movements precise, but in the sub-micron area air gets thin (as we say in Germany). On the snowflake it is obvious that the issue gets larger the more off-center the head is placed - at least I did never see the gap in the center, it was always on the outside of the arms/beams/rays of the snowflake. Due to geometry rules, the movement in the outside of the workarea requires much smaller movement of the according axis/motors involved -> means: The movement precision is maybe not enough. Still my guess here was that it will significantly improve with original klipper, when I can use full klipper functionality (including ADXL345 input shaping). But maybe I am wrong. I was very optimistic before your comments... now not so sure anymore.
@@craftingmat5425 what do you consider "original" klipper? Is it different then the current klipper version? I have tried the current klipper version with both my delta and ender 3 bed slinger with basically the same outcome. Enhanced calibration and input shaping disabled and enabled, Just one enhabled, both enabled, every combination I could dream up with every setting i enabled or disabled in klipper that I could think of that could make a difference and even a bunch that I knew wouldn't help just to see if anything changes. I have to say that this was done before I found your video, I was using a 200 by 5mm rectangle. No matter what I changed the rectangle was always 0.3mm to 0.5mm wider on the right side of the bed vs the left(also the width change didn't occure at the outer edges. It started at the center of the bed. until I switched from slicing with Cura to slicing with Prusa and bam.. the wider part switches to the left side of bed. Cura prints clockwise, Prusa prints counterclockwise. Please someone explain what's going on here if it's anything related to configuration and calibration? Another wrench in the mix; giving the C tower carriage bearing more play fixes this issue, width difference is down to only 0.05 which is acceptable to me, this does not completely fix your snowflake tho, still get small gaps tho not nearly as bad. But no matter what I do I cannot switch the wider part to the left side of the bed except by printing counterclockwise vs clockwise. Somebody knows what's going on here. Who are you?
@@natewipf5064 By "original" Klipper I mean not the molested FLSUN Version of Klipper. Klipper is open source and is constantly developed further. I want to have the real thing, not the Klipper FLSUN "tuned". Not sure when I can start off with it. Maybe I will start this weekend with it. It will for sure take me a week if I additionally create some video footage for my channel. And it is not completely free of risk. Wasted already 2 days on some research on RhaspberryPi flashing/backup methods (without getting me somewhere lol).
@Crafting Mat Hello. I'm fighting accuracy issues with my QQs pro and Super Racer that I bet is the same issue. With me I print a 200mm by 5mm rectangle left to right. The right side is always 0.3 to 0.4mm wider than the left side., When sliced with cura and printing clockwise. When sliced with Prusa or most other slicers that print counterclockwise the wider side of the rectangle is on the left side. When printing the rectangle front to back it's within 0.05mm, which is acceptable to me. And for you guys that will say 3d printers can't be that acurate, my out of the box ender 3 s1 pro has 0.02 accuracy with this same rectangle easy shmeasy every single time. If my deltas can't do at least 0.06 I will throw them in the trash and stick to bed slingers and corexy
Hi Nate, thanks for your comments! I assume that there is some inaccuracy with deltas. But meanwhile I am quite sure that it is a matter of calibration - therefore my main guess atm is to go for original klipper. This is also what I will do next on my channel. I have strong indication that after original klipper install including proper calibration it will be fixed. For the QQs - I think this is not clipper afaik? I think Klipper is lightyears ahead of e.g. any marlin spin-off... not sure if Delta can be calibrated well enough with something else than Klipper. Info: I will need more time for my "Klipper-Video"... because it seems not to be that easy and filming each and every step will be painful... also I could not yet start with it as I am not home right now... I assume it will take me another 2 weeks to get this done.
Thanks a lot for commenting! I mentioned it in several comments already: My next step will be to install original klipper. Also I will do all possible calibration (original clipper can do more). On those 2 topics I will do 2 videos. I am pretty sure that my issues are gone after that and the V400 is then precise and fast. But it has to stand the test of time (2-3 weeks most likely...).
Thanks for commenting! Well, at the moment I do not yet have a result. I assume the FLSUN Klipper Version has an issue. At least all I read points to this direction. This is why my next video will deal with installing original Klipper to the Speeder - how you do that and what to know and so on. After that I will do another Video about how to calibrate everything (maybe also with an ADXL345 device). In between maybe... but for sure when all that is done I will again print the Snowflakes and see, if this really was the issue. Unfortunately I cannot do this right now. I will need at least 2 weeks until first (next) video will be out.
@@craftingmat5425 I can confirm now that I have the same issue with my QQs pro and my brand new Super Racer. Super Racer is on marlin from factory I believe. QQs pro I have tried the oem firmware, marlin and klipper with the same accuracy issues. Specifically a 200mm by 5mm rectangle that's wider on the right vs the left by 0.3mm. The crazy part is is that when I slice it with Prusa instead of cura the wider part is on the left vs the right. I have figured out the cura prints clockwise and Prusa prints counterclockwise. I have only tested your snowflake on my QQs pro tho I assume the issues are related to my 200mm by 5mm rectangle. The only thing that helps on my QQs pro is designing more play into the C tower carriage bearings. I'm unable to do that on the superRacer do to linear rails so can't test for that. I printer your snowflake with loose bearings on C tower too. I still have the gaps but not nearly as bad and width dimensions on oposing legs are within 0.05mm. Without loose bearings they are 0.3mm off. I printer the snowflake on my ender 3 too and I'm afraid it shows the same result tho not nearly as bad. And I had to lower extrusion value to make the gaps apear... 1oclock leg, 4oclock, 7 oclock, and 10ovlock all have gaps. Barely visible but I can force the walls apart. The dimensions are pretty accurate tho. The legs without gaps are only 0.06mm narrower then the ones with gaps. Huge difference from my deltas which have differences over 0.4mm on some legs.
Wow - you already tried Klipper on the QQ? I assume this took a lot of time then. I would not mind the gap (lol), but I would like to see the accuracy. The gap only pointed me clearly to the accuracy problem... maybe in 2-3 weeks I am done with my Klipper Test. I am very optimistic, that this will clear the issues. Hope to see you in the comments then again, Nate!
@craftingmat5425 can you do a video on enhanced delta calibration please that would be very beneficial to community i am willing to donate a 100 dollars for that video.
Very polite from you. Unfortunately, I do not have time at the moment (hence there are no new videos). May I know what is the exact issue for you according to Delta Calibration? I have already done a Video where I also did delta calibration ("FLSUN V400 Calibration running on original Github Klipper").
Fixed it with enhanced delta calibration for Klipper.
How?
@@IsaacSnyder-s9v check the official Klipper documentation for "Enhanced delta calibration".
I recommend to scale up the calibration print for better results.
i have V400 and i have set print speed to 250, print acceleration to 4000. this has helped me a lot to get better prints. changing Acceleration had the biggest impact for me. i had seen you were using default settings for this in your video. Also you may try setting top/bottom pattern to zig zag. I would be very interested to see if this resolves your issue.
Thanks for commenting!
I was printing at low speed (120) - not sure about acceleration tbh. But thanks for this tip!
Atm I am working on my Calibration video after I have setup "original" Klipper (see also other video).
After that I want to do another snowflake and I hope it will be much better...
I agree with @mastermaker666, that your print looks under extruded.
I have a Hatchbox Alpha delta printer (an older printer) and I do not have this problem. I use a 0.4mm nozzle, and Cura 5.4.0. My "spokes" vary from 1.84 to 1.88mm. I could be wrong, but I attribute this variance to the very long bowden tube setup the HB Alpha has. I envy the V400's direct drive configuration.
I would recommend researching your line width settings. But before you do that, get your printer calibrated (which it looks like you are doing, but specifically look at your extruder's steps per unit of measure calibration), then move to filament calibration. Generally, the order for filament calibration is bed adhesion to print temperature to flow rate to retraction to print speed settings.
There is much debate about this topic in the 3d printing community, but I believe that the line width (in Cura, Quality->Line Width) should be something slightly greater than the nozzle diameter. I believe the Simplify 3D folks suggested 0.48 for a 0.4 nozzle. With that set, print a 20mm calibration cube with 2 walls (Cura: Walls->Wall Line Count) with 0 top and bottom layers (Cura: Top/Bottom->Top Layers, Bottom Layers).
Measure the width of the walls of the cube from the top. You can adjust filament density or flow rate settings to get the right wall (and therefore line) width.
You can look at the width and placement of the walls from the bottom and make adjustments for elephant feet and the like. Consider settings like: Initial Layer Height, Initial Layer Line Width, Initial Layer Horizontal Expansion, Initial Layer Flow, and so on.
That's your flow rate stuff, so move forward to calibrate your retraction and print speed settings. Once you have that, then try the, "SnowFlake" print again and see how things look.
I look forward to hearing about your results.
Good luck!
Watching with interest..new subscriber. Thinking about buying this printer..
Thanks for commenting!
Yes I am already trying to deal with it.
It will depend on what exactly you want to do with the printer. If you are out for technical parts and you need precision of less than +/- 0.1mm, then I assume you will need to do the next step and upgrade to original klipper (not the FLSUN Version of Klipper). I have already done a video on that one - how to do that.
At the moment there is again an offer for the printer at tomtop... not sure if this is interesting for you or from where you from... if you are from Europe, that may be interesting for you.
@@craftingmat5425 I’m looking t building a Voron now lol
@@Artbyebob Well, not the worst choice! A Voron is also on my list and for sure will be next, when the V400 is dialed in (2-6months I assume). A Voron will have so much more content also for my little channel. Also looking forward to that - funny how similar personal interests can be!
It's the same problem that I (and others) had with the Rostock V2. The Rostock was fair at making doo-dads, not good at all in making compliant parts.
And just out of curiosity, has FLSun been of any use at all? They were completely useless as they couldn't even be bothered to replace the bad SD card that they included with the printer.
You must do an enhanced delta calibration for improve your accuracy
You should do a video on how to do it, it could be very beneficial for beginners
yes, enhanced delta calibration helped me with the same problem.
No it don't would help. i did 15 enhanced delta calibrations too... only the separations are on other places...
Thank you for your comment. In my community the enhanced delta calibration was already done (more than once). The issue does not disappear, maybe it gets a little bit better.
@@sebastianlopezalejos Yes, maybe that is a good idea for new content. I think about that. It will take me at least 10 days (more likely 2weeks), as I have atm no access to my V400.
Oh wow... and here I wanted to upgrade to the V400 becasue I cannot figure out why my Super racer is doing this.... I do not have the Data logged as you do, but I clearly noticed that prints always have an "Open" side. I moved away from Cura as Prusa slicer set to 40% overlap sort of fixes the problem for me. but I think i loose quality becasue of this. also printing PETG slower than an Ender3, not cool. I do hope there is some sort of answer here... for now then I will only upgrade the SR with the V400 Effector and wait for this problem to be settled.
Have you started using Cura 5.4 yet? I am running that now, and it seems to be much better than all other versions of Cura. However, I have not yet performed any precision test as you have. Thank you.
Those top surfaces look very under-extruded, the cheat fix for under extrusion is to increase line width by 0.1-0.2(any line width up to 50-60% larger than the nozzle usually don't affect accuracy in any noticeable way so 0.6 lines out of a 0.4 nozzle is usually unproblematic) and flow in 5-10% increments and print again, then repeat as needed until the problem is sufficiently fixed or things start looking too over extruded(at which point you obviously choose the last setting that wasn't too over extruded)..
Bit odd that it's under extruding as every v400 seem to have over extrusion issues rather than under extrusion issues....
Hey Thomas! Thanks for commenting on my video.
A you mean the top layer of the surrounding area of the snowflake, right? Yes, those could be better, but this was not my original problem.
Basically my problem was/ is that the print is too wide on some areas. When filming this, I had too much width by 0.2mm up to 0.4mm. Meanwhile I updated to original Github Klipper and did the full Setup/Calibration (well not the full one, but more than 80% I would say...). My accuracy increased to a deviation of 0 to max. 0.20 - 0.25mm (I would say closely doubled the precision). So already better but not yet perfect.
Once I have time for the toplayers, I will come back for your comment, thanks!!
@@craftingmat5425 Have since bought a V400 and I may have a fix for the split walls.
Use an odd number of lines for the walls, appears to be a delta quirk where 3 lines of simultaneous non-cartesian movements needed for every single nozzle position translated into a cartesian coordinate system causes issues with even numbers.
Was using 3 lines but was having bleed-through issues but no split walls so upped the number to 4, and I started getting split walls, upped the number of lines to 5 and the splits went away.
Also found that I would get shades of splits when printing something that was exactly 2 walls thick(ie 5 lines+5lines with no infill between), lowering the thickness by one line width so that I would get a line printed in the middle rather than a line on either side of the middle, bringing the line number back to an odd number and those also went away....
Other slicer better? Try SuperSlicer or Prusa Slicer, maybe better?
No I am pretty sure it is not the slicer.
Today I will upload my next video - I updated to original Klipper. I did not yet Calibrate my Printer, but I think the precision will be better after that.
Thanks for your comment - appreciated!
I recently was working on a model with quite big top layer (circle, 25cm diameter) and was facing similar issues, in my case I had a bit of underextrusion in some areas of the print bed, no matter how many top layers I used (tbh I stopped after using 6). After multiple calibrations and tests (and kilograms of filament...) I don't think that there's a solution to that that would include calibration, unless there's some other form of calibration we don't know about. The weird part in my case is that the issue is usually happening every 2 infill lines (when using monotonic infill), and happens every single line when using archimedean chords infill.
Did you have any breakthrough with this issue? I'm ready to say that it's a delta thing and we won't be able to fix it, but I really don't want to loose the rest of hope I still have!
Interesting. I have a FLSUN QQ-S Pro and developed a star pattern which consists of 3 lines, of single layer height, for each "arm". I performed the basic bed curvature calibration and when printing this object I observed no gaps whatsoever. The outer lines are printed first with the inner line printed afterwards and it fits perfectly.
The fact that the anomaly occurs at 120 degree spacing suggests it is definitely a motion artifact. I wasn't quite clear whether the affected "arms" fall mid-way between the vertical towers where the position is defined by two adjacent towers and there is a relative positioning error between them? Maybe you can develop some additional test shapes to exercise this idea?
Hello Neil,
thanks for your comment.
No, the defect is not exactly midways between two towers. It is one arm left or one arm right of it (depending if running Cura 4 or Cura 5).
I think it is a precision topic.
When checking this issue with Simplify3D I found out that the calibration snowflake (which was not my design in the first place) in fact is designed to have a size of 1,75mm thickness of each arm - meaning, there is already a 0.15mm gap designed in the middle of each arm.
Basically, the printer is not translating 1,75mm 3D Model to 1,75mm in reality but up to 2.20mm in reality -> this is a precision issue. Again: It should measure 1,75mm... but it is not. It is at least 1.8mm and if the precision-glitch is striking... it is even more (like 2.20mm (resulting in a visible gap), which is close to 0.5mm - which I consider by no stretch of imagination "ok").
My printer does not extrude too much, I calibrated it accordingly.
Did you try a slower print speed. I've got two of these printers and I'm about 200 prints along, they quality has been impressive but the Cura z-hop command is not used by Klipper. Flsun's solution is 10% lower flow, but some prints have to run at 250mm/sec or they get punted off the build plate.
Thanks for your comment! Yes, this was printed (very) slow at 120mm/s (it is also mentioned in the video).
I think I will go with original Klipper soon... I have found hints that this will improve a lot.
I will also do another video when I do that (so a bit more content for my channel). But I cannot do this now, this will happen in next 2-3 weeks I guess.
@@craftingmat5425 please see my comment. Don't look like i tagged you correctly. I'm willing to work with you and do what it takes to resolve this as I have spent countless hours on my QQs pro trying to fix this and my brand new Super Racer has the same exact issue.
@@craftingmat5425 the only thing that helped so far with my QQs pro is giving the C tower carriage bearings a lot more play, which is not a good solution as I can't print fast then.
I don't own a Delta printer but if I had to guess, I would blame rounding errors somewhere in the conversion from orthogonal axis to the delta configuration.
Thanks for your comment.
Yes that is possible. Up to now I do not see a better solution than going with a "proper" klipper. I think it will either dramatically improve with original klipper or it will be completely done.
By the way - the original snowflake was not my design. And I found out, that it already has a gap by design. The proper measurement should be 1,8mm (where I see the gaps, it has around 2,1-2,2mm). Surprisingly it was not created to have 4x the nozzle size (4x0.4mm = 1.6mm), it is 4x0.4mm plus 0.2mm in the middle as a gap. So to be clear on this one -> the gap should be either visible at all of the snowflake arms/beams or it should not be visible, but the size should be 1.8mm on each and every arm/beam.
I am looking forward to the original klipper test. I will do at least 2 new videos on the klipper install and the calibration of the printer.
Once that is done I will repeat the Snowflake test.
That is exactly what I have concluded after switching every part of my QQs pro that could possibly effect this. Plus buying a SuperRacer which had the same problem. My bed slinger has the same problem, tho not nearly as bad. I think there are rounding errors when 2 or more motors have to move together at the same time with bed slingers. Obviously on a delta all three move together all the time which probably is what makes it worse on a delta. Marlin and Klipper did not help at all for me.
@@natewipf5064 Fun fact: I am working as Dept.Head of a company producing high precision bonders for semiconductor industry. I do this as a profession. We have a saying for that: "Any movement done is wrong" -> meaning once we move one motor, we correct the movement after OpticalInspection confirmation. Of course we have several methods to make movements precise, but in the sub-micron area air gets thin (as we say in Germany).
On the snowflake it is obvious that the issue gets larger the more off-center the head is placed - at least I did never see the gap in the center, it was always on the outside of the arms/beams/rays of the snowflake. Due to geometry rules, the movement in the outside of the workarea requires much smaller movement of the according axis/motors involved -> means: The movement precision is maybe not enough.
Still my guess here was that it will significantly improve with original klipper, when I can use full klipper functionality (including ADXL345 input shaping).
But maybe I am wrong.
I was very optimistic before your comments... now not so sure anymore.
@@craftingmat5425 what do you consider "original" klipper? Is it different then the current klipper version? I have tried the current klipper version with both my delta and ender 3 bed slinger with basically the same outcome. Enhanced calibration and input shaping disabled and enabled, Just one enhabled, both enabled, every combination I could dream up with every setting i enabled or disabled in klipper that I could think of that could make a difference and even a bunch that I knew wouldn't help just to see if anything changes. I have to say that this was done before I found your video, I was using a 200 by 5mm rectangle. No matter what I changed the rectangle was always 0.3mm to 0.5mm wider on the right side of the bed vs the left(also the width change didn't occure at the outer edges. It started at the center of the bed. until I switched from slicing with Cura to slicing with Prusa and bam.. the wider part switches to the left side of bed. Cura prints clockwise, Prusa prints counterclockwise. Please someone explain what's going on here if it's anything related to configuration and calibration? Another wrench in the mix; giving the C tower carriage bearing more play fixes this issue, width difference is down to only 0.05 which is acceptable to me, this does not completely fix your snowflake tho, still get small gaps tho not nearly as bad. But no matter what I do I cannot switch the wider part to the left side of the bed except by printing counterclockwise vs clockwise. Somebody knows what's going on here. Who are you?
@@natewipf5064 By "original" Klipper I mean not the molested FLSUN Version of Klipper. Klipper is open source and is constantly developed further. I want to have the real thing, not the Klipper FLSUN "tuned".
Not sure when I can start off with it. Maybe I will start this weekend with it. It will for sure take me a week if I additionally create some video footage for my channel. And it is not completely free of risk. Wasted already 2 days on some research on RhaspberryPi flashing/backup methods (without getting me somewhere lol).
@Crafting Mat
Hello. I'm fighting accuracy issues with my QQs pro and Super Racer that I bet is the same issue. With me I print a 200mm by 5mm rectangle left to right. The right side is always 0.3 to 0.4mm wider than the left side., When sliced with cura and printing clockwise. When sliced with Prusa or most other slicers that print counterclockwise the wider side of the rectangle is on the left side. When printing the rectangle front to back it's within 0.05mm, which is acceptable to me. And for you guys that will say 3d printers can't be that acurate, my out of the box ender 3 s1 pro has 0.02 accuracy with this same rectangle easy shmeasy every single time. If my deltas can't do at least 0.06 I will throw them in the trash and stick to bed slingers and corexy
@CraftingMat. If you print the 200mm by 5mm square I will print your snowflake and we will see if the issue persists
Hi Nate, thanks for your comments!
I assume that there is some inaccuracy with deltas.
But meanwhile I am quite sure that it is a matter of calibration - therefore my main guess atm is to go for original klipper. This is also what I will do next on my channel. I have strong indication that after original klipper install including proper calibration it will be fixed.
For the QQs - I think this is not clipper afaik? I think Klipper is lightyears ahead of e.g. any marlin spin-off... not sure if Delta can be calibrated well enough with something else than Klipper.
Info: I will need more time for my "Klipper-Video"... because it seems not to be that easy and filming each and every step will be painful... also I could not yet start with it as I am not home right now... I assume it will take me another 2 weeks to get this done.
Most likely I already printed that... Not sure if it was 200mm... as for now I cannot do that (not home as said). Which 3d Model do you have in mind?
@@craftingmat5425 i could find out this too on the snowflake. It is depent on the print direction where the gaps are...
That draw back of delta. I cant even make it match to xyz of equal length. Especially onn 1.8degree stepper.
I would like to recommend to use 1 to 3 stepper ratio gear to increase resolution.
Thanks a lot for commenting!
I mentioned it in several comments already: My next step will be to install original klipper. Also I will do all possible calibration (original clipper can do more). On those 2 topics I will do 2 videos. I am pretty sure that my issues are gone after that and the V400 is then precise and fast. But it has to stand the test of time (2-3 weeks most likely...).
So whats result
No one could help for now
Thanks for commenting! Well, at the moment I do not yet have a result. I assume the FLSUN Klipper Version has an issue. At least all I read points to this direction. This is why my next video will deal with installing original Klipper to the Speeder - how you do that and what to know and so on.
After that I will do another Video about how to calibrate everything (maybe also with an ADXL345 device).
In between maybe... but for sure when all that is done I will again print the Snowflakes and see, if this really was the issue.
Unfortunately I cannot do this right now. I will need at least 2 weeks until first (next) video will be out.
we will get this done... we know what to do and I guess I simply will do it. In 2 weeks we will know I assume. THX for commenting!
@@craftingmat5425 I can confirm now that I have the same issue with my QQs pro and my brand new Super Racer. Super Racer is on marlin from factory I believe. QQs pro I have tried the oem firmware, marlin and klipper with the same accuracy issues. Specifically a 200mm by 5mm rectangle that's wider on the right vs the left by 0.3mm. The crazy part is is that when I slice it with Prusa instead of cura the wider part is on the left vs the right. I have figured out the cura prints clockwise and Prusa prints counterclockwise. I have only tested your snowflake on my QQs pro tho I assume the issues are related to my 200mm by 5mm rectangle. The only thing that helps on my QQs pro is designing more play into the C tower carriage bearings. I'm unable to do that on the superRacer do to linear rails so can't test for that. I printer your snowflake with loose bearings on C tower too. I still have the gaps but not nearly as bad and width dimensions on oposing legs are within 0.05mm. Without loose bearings they are 0.3mm off.
I printer the snowflake on my ender 3 too and I'm afraid it shows the same result tho not nearly as bad. And I had to lower extrusion value to make the gaps apear... 1oclock leg, 4oclock, 7 oclock, and 10ovlock all have gaps. Barely visible but I can force the walls apart. The dimensions are pretty accurate tho. The legs without gaps are only 0.06mm narrower then the ones with gaps. Huge difference from my deltas which have differences over 0.4mm on some legs.
Wow - you already tried Klipper on the QQ? I assume this took a lot of time then.
I would not mind the gap (lol), but I would like to see the accuracy. The gap only pointed me clearly to the accuracy problem... maybe in 2-3 weeks I am done with my Klipper Test. I am very optimistic, that this will clear the issues. Hope to see you in the comments then again, Nate!
Cura on this printer is no good, I use orca slicer and had no more problems
@craftingmat5425 can you do a video on enhanced delta calibration please that would be very beneficial to community i am willing to donate a 100 dollars for that video.
Very polite from you. Unfortunately, I do not have time at the moment (hence there are no new videos).
May I know what is the exact issue for you according to Delta Calibration?
I have already done a Video where I also did delta calibration ("FLSUN V400 Calibration running on original Github Klipper").
Author watch this video shows hot to set input shaper and calibration properly
"Обзор FLSUN V400 - Где амазинг спеед?"
Tune the belts
У вас сильная недоэкструзия материала.