Science Says "Good Mornings" Will Wreck Your Back!
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- "Famous" Physical Therapists Bob Schrupp and Brad Heineck present: Science Says "Good Mornings" Will Wreck Your Back!
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I had a bad back for over two decades. In the past year I started doing some of these "bad exercises" and they have made a world of difference for me.
I've literally brought clients out of rehab from back injuries and taught them these lifts. It relieved sciatic pain and allowed them to start running and biking again. This is where old and new PTs are split. I'm entering PT programs now, and every PT Ive talked to under 50 understands the importance of hinging and squatting.
Yeah this is what they taught the old school PTs, to be afraid of motion and movement
My physio told me to do good mornings.
@@benjamingardner3314 can sciatic pain really be relieved with goodmorning?
@@princekiki33 muscles around can get stronger and help, but not heal
“This is going to injure you because it applies stress to the body.” How do you think every single strength training exercise makes someone stronger? By eliminating all stress?
Haha exactly I don't understand why that argument is always used. "iT iNcReAseS StResS" Like no shit, that's kind of the point.
He just could have worded it better, but what he meant is "applying stress to your joints/spine". We get stronger by applying stress to the muscle, but doing the same to joints leads to the complete opposite effect, over time.
@@kateru376 can’t apply stress to muscles without applying stress to joints. And applying stress to joints makes them more robust just like with muscles or bones
@@natebackunbroken Applying stress to joints can lead to serious injury, -if the tension is applied in a bad form, and/or too much weight- e.g internal rotation of the shoulders while lifting. Same principle applies to any other joint, if the tension applied to a joint is either too heavy or in a bad form.
If it were that simple, no one would be wasting time worrying about form, since " applying stress to joints makes them more robust", which is only true if it's done in a correct form, and leads to serious injury if not.
@@kateru376 i completely agree that if the weight is too much for the person to handle at the time, injury becomes more likely. But the body adapts to load and form. If you are able to slowly and progressively load a movement (even with what’s considered “bad form”), the body is very capable of adapting to the stresses applied to it. The jefferson curl is a great example. It’s common to say that lifting with a rounded back is dangerous- but if we lift with a rounded back progressively with appropriate weight management, this movement becomes a great way to increase the capacity of the lower back.
Good Mornings hurt your lower back because people do it wrong.
What they demoed in the vid was an awful good morning
right? i was hoping it was just a video on how to do them properly
@@bianceesterhuyse604 You said it yourself. They don't lift. Weird how they don't have experience on the thing they're talking about.
@@bianceesterhuyse604 They're not lifters. A physical therapist giving lifting advice is like a chemist giving baking advice.
@@bianceesterhuyse604 Could be but they're still wrong. They're form is awful.
Also an rdl or a good morning are the exact same lift with a different placing of the bar but you don't see a lot of people whining about rdls. That means that most people just don't know how to perform it.
Those guys don't know how to to proper good mornings.
By the looks of them they have not been in the gym that often.
You can ruin your back if you do the exercise WRONG!!!
If you do it right way it will benefit and strengthen your lower back muscles and your whole core.
So if you don't know how to do these exercises,stay away from them,if you do...keep on rocking!!!
They weren’t demonstrating the good morning exercise nor the kettle ball swing properly. Form was way off. That’s why the back will experience issues. Good mornings are effective and will not cause back injuries.
Love these guys, but this was a miss.
First. Good mornings are a very advanced exercise. They require a LOT of mobility in your hips, and a straight back. If you can’t go all the way down because you don’t have enough mobility in your hips, you should not do good mornings with weight. You need to train your mobility. They also require a lot of glute strength that beginners don’t have. A lot of time, that leads to compensating with the lower back, which leads to injury. You need to learn the mechanics of the movement before adding weight (like any other exercise), or you are ensuring that you get hurt.
Second. When barbell rows are done correctly, they aren’t likely to put extra strain on the lower back because your entire posterior chain is engaged and many muscles share the load. Of course the second any part your posterior chain gives out, your lower back is forced to take on most of the weight, and that is when injury is almost guaranteed to happen.
Pendlay rows have a much higher chance of lower back injury than regular barbell rows because they are performed as explosively as possible, so it’s a lot easier to forget to engage the other muscles in the posterior chain before picking up the weight.
Kettlebell swings were the most ridiculous part of this video. Most people do them wrong, but a physical therapist should know how to do kettlebell swings! It’s a simple movement. It’s not a squat.
You start the movement with about a 45 degree angle (or whatever angle it takes to get the kettlebell at or right behind your butt), then, hinging at your hips, you explosively drive the kettlebell until you are straight up. The kettlebell swings from the momentum of your hip drive like a bar floats up when you do a clean from your hips
If you rush into an exercise that is above your skill level you will get hurt. Poor mechanics will lead to you getting hurt. Fatigue is not an excuse to sacrifice form. If you are too tired to continue doing an exercise properly, you need to stop.
You aren’t even doing the exercise Correctly
Yeah... this ain't it. No inherently "bad" exercises. If you respect load management and recovery, any exercise can be "good". If you don't, any exercise can be "bad". We gotta stop promoting fear around the spine. It is strong and resilient and can adapt just like the rest of the body.
so bruce didnt respect the exercise when he broke his back
@@WM-mu8ep He mentioned in his book that he didn't warmup when he did 135 for reps in the good morning exercise. That's why he recommended to take your warmup seriously
How about sit-ups? I hear they're terrible for the spine.
Good night to these guys.
*mistakes barbell for dumbbell*
Yeah I’m gonna go ahead and not take lifting advice from these guys
Technically a barbell is just a giant dumbbell
@@iamfuckingyourwaifuandther2743 elongated*
@@iamfuckingyourwaifuandther2743 i personally take 2 barbells and dumbbell curl them just to really make a statement
I’ve never in my years of training have seen such horrendously bad form for a good morning and a kettlebell swing, dear lord. If you do those exercises like Brad and Bob are demonstrating them, you most definitely will hurt yourself. I’m horrified 😂
Is this satire?
Anyone trained by these 2 will most definitely get injured and fast. And nice job simulating the barbell resting on your neck 🤦🏻♂️
When the title had "Science Says", I was expecting to see citations of scientific papers.
😂😂😂
A citation?
@@JusDion No. plural as in , more than one.
@@markstuber4731 he was asking what a citation is
@@aha3411 I don't know how you could possibly not know that.
If true, then he should have used a complete sentence.
First time I've ever disagreed with these guys. It's fundamental misunderstanding of correct form. How do you get off the toilet if you can't hip hinge? There are multiple studies that say the opposite, when done correctly. I'm happy to instruct you on the way it should be done, I use it specifically with rehabbing clients in the gym and most PTs agree with compound lifting (done right) helps with injury prevention.
Repetitions are to form only, which is why video, buddy, or trainer who knows correct form should be looking out for you. I tell all clients, a max is the most weight or repetitions with correct form. Anything else is a waste of your time and reinforcing improper form.
Finally, specificity is crucial. What are you training for? If it's longevity, crank up weights maybe once every other month on deadlift, and still prioritize motion and form. I'm just shocked you don't understand a loaded hip hinge with everything else you've been so informative about. Hinges are done backwards, not forwards. If your back hurts when you try to hip hinge, you have a mobility issue. Try to sprint. Can you hit any kind of speed? Can you jump without pain, jump for distance and stay balanced? All good things come from violent hip extension, and every athlete from every sport uses it in some form or another.
@@benjamingardner3314 Unless it's an easy isolation. Like with a rear delt fly, I start controlled and then once I can't use good form I'll use a bit more swinging and momentum to go beyond failure. On a squat though obviously not
At some point in your life you are going to have to bend over at the hips and pick something up while keeping your legs almost straight, such as when you unload your grocery cart in a crowded checkout aisle where there isn't room to bend at the knees. Or can you imagine a waitress trying to set a table without bending over and instead going down into a deep knee bend while serving customers? That would be absurd. It is better to train for such an event with light resistance and perfect form to avoid injury when suddenly having to perform the task in the real world. The Good Morning exercise is actually very good for your back when done with proper form, light resistance, and slow progression. If you can't bend over without pain currently it means that Good Mornings are something that you need to start working on to restore proper function to your lower back and hamstrings. But hey, what do I know? I only have more than FIFTY YEARS of experience in the exercise/rehabilitation field.
Deadlifts, goodmornings, & squats cured my constant sciatica. A better exercise to go against is the 1 arm swing.
That's right! My husband and I recently learned about Louie Simmons and have been looking into his training styles. We started implementing good mornings and box squats into our training and our knees and backs are getting stronger and don't have any pain at all.
Lol how are you going to do a bend over barbell row with straight legs, a horizontal back, pulling towards the shoulders?!? You'd better be doing it with a broomstick because any appreciable weight would put your center of mass past your toes and you would fall forward. Bent knees, back at around a 45 degree angle and pull towards your abdomen.
Some of the strongest backs in the world were build supplementing with good mornings
This should be called “How to never ever perform a Good Morning”. In Good Mornings, Bent Over Rows, Squats or Deadlifts the weight always goes up and down in a perfect vertical line over your feet.
What about pendlay rows? That is done with straight legs, a horisontal back and bar to chest.
@@kakefisk hips go backwards, the weight should go up over your feet, this happens almost automatically because otherwise you can fall over
Tell me you don’t understand the SAID principle and injury mechanisms without telling me you don’t understand the SAID principle and injury mechanisms.
As a new PT, this was painful to watch…
Brad's not demonstrating the good morning properly. Lead with the hips; don't bend at the waist.
Bless them, but physical therapists are notorious for missing the mark on strength training advice and instruction.
Love you guys but your form on both those exercises is embarrassing. No wonder it hurts your lower back .
i think you guys are great, but mostly if not completely wrong about this. Key is to lift an appropriate amount of weight, and to stick within safe rom for you, increasing rom as it improves
Videos like this are why the dislike counter was so important
Bro do these guys even lift bro?
this is pretty silly, they are showing the lift with bad form and any excercise can cause injury with bad form
the only way you can get injured during these excercises is with too much weight for you to handle and or with bad form
Bob Schrupp and Brad Heineck, physical therapists, discuss the risks associated with the "Good Mornings" exercise and similar movements that can potentially harm the back.
They argue that exercises requiring bending over, such as Good Mornings and bent-over rows, put excessive stress on the lower back, particularly the L5-S1 disc, which is most prone to herniation.
They emphasize that even with proper form, the physics and biomechanics involved in these exercises result in a high torque force on the lower back, which can lead to injury over time.
The therapists suggest that many people may start with good form but lose it as they fatigue, increasing the risk of injury. They question the logic of using risky body mechanics in the gym when such movements are discouraged in work environments.
They advocate for alternative exercises that can strengthen the same muscle groups without putting the lower back at risk, emphasizing that there are safer ways to achieve the same fitness goals.
Thanks for that!
Nothing sadder than someone who's got decades of experience being wrong.
These guys dont do any exercises
this video shows a lack of understanding of how to execute these exercises properly.
Avoiding load in the spine in the knees is not the smartest idea imo. When you lift a heavy box one time you’re gonna load the spine and pull something because your spine is that weak. You also act like the human body is so fragile and all stress should be avoided: all exercise is a form of stress that the body has to recover from and as a result, adapt to. Exercise will also keep your muscle mass from withering away and keep decent bone density as you get older. You’ll be super glad that you avoided all kinds of stress, that in reasonable amounts would make your body that much durable, when you break bones slipping down and things like that 😂
“Science says” but no studies listed...
Yeah this is absolute bro science
You're DEF going to have the knees slightly bent, engaging glutes and setting properly before doing any of these moves. Heavy loads, locked knees and no core stabilizing = a disaster waiting to happen.
He said, "it's an issue. We're lookin at it." And moved on to the next exercise. This video is useless. I no longer have faith that anything these guys say is correct. Does Canada have schools, or like do they still pass down "knowledge" from ancestor to ancestor by word of mouth as they don't yet have a written language?
These two ham & egger’s couldn’t direct traffic on a one-way street!
Agreed. They're hopeless.
Your form was bad in both examples of bent over rows and good mornings. It makes all the sense in the world why you feel that way. Anyone watching this, the first thing that's horrible was the fact he rested that weight on his neck. The barbell shouldn't ever rest on your neck.
You guys demonstrated the wrong way to do all 3 exercises. The way you showed is bad for your back, but its not bad if proper form is used
When it comes to barbell rows and kettlebell swings, isn’t it safe to perform these exercises as long as your center of mass still remains through your mid foot?
Good mornings are only an issue with the way you're performing them lol. A trained PT, with a history of strength training, would be a better reference. It's not just a hinge. You pull your hips back and sit into it essentially. Think butt back, not head down. Knees should be bent some. You also should be bracing your core, which you are not doing. Do this inccorectly and the risk is higher, but literally every exercise on the planet carries some risk. Standing up in the morning carries risk. This is bad fear mongering by people who don't life weights. I like your other content, but I got here after knees over toes guy reccomended seated good mornings. I deadlift 600+ pounds and would use good mornings as part of my warm up.
I know a PT with degrees from duke, oxford and yale, who rows with 400-500lbs, in the fashion done in this video. Consult people in this field, and those who degrees who actively compete in strength sports before giving awful advice lol.
I don't think he knows how to perform any of the exercises,......and he doesn't do them and has a bad back already 😂😂😂😂😂
When you do a good morning you never go past parallel. Having a strong to brace with is what stops your back being injured. People get hurt doing good mornings because they do them wrong and they don’t know how to brace there core. Any exercise can hurt you if you do it wrong.
These guys’ form are terrible! That’s why the exercises turn to shit!
It's all about scaling the exercises to a manageable difficulty level. The best way to prevent injury is to train to be strong in positions where you are weak.
Okay so I fractured my L1 vertebrae a little over 8 months ago and it absolutely wrecked my physical life. Good Mornings are one of the exercises that have genuinely helped me a great deal. The difference before and after adding them to my daily routine is incredible.
Exactly. This video is sooo incredibly mis informing. It shows these guys have zero exp with weight training and view from a limited modality.
Bruh, so you wrecked your back and now you mean that good mornings have saved you??😂
A piece of advice... let your back recover and than try stressing it with such exercises...
@@wildeoscar5242 he obviously let his back heal, to a point that he could lift and make it stronger. Most people have weak backs, from sitting, lack of exercise etc, this is the reason for their back going out or improper movements in life...I could go on. Get your back strong is the lesson
I started doing resistance band good mornings a couple of weeks ago and now my back has never felt better. I was always in a little pain while doing kettlebell swings even though my form is pretty good, so I think I’ll just stick to band good mornings instead.
Wow, I will look these banded ones up. I believe if done for strength with low moderate weight, this is the exercise I need. Been doing just w broomstick to perfect form and my back feels really good. Some weight and my posterior chain will be very happy with this functional exercise vs. wagging a ball between my knees 😆
Did you do them seated or standing?
Good morning done with awful technique maybe
Yeah because you guys are ripped and super strong
The difference is that a good morning must be a hinge exercise like a deadlift or a kettlebell swing. If you aren't hinging, you'll damage your back. I love banded good mornings with a monster band. Always makes me feel great.
Love the videos guys. I agree about weighted good morning, I just recommend Broom stick good mornings.
But the technique for all these exercises are incorrect, especially the kettlebell swing. That's a squat and shoulder raise, not a hip hinge movement guys.
They did say they never do them and may have improper technique
@@francisrivas9497 no....they don't understand weightlifting hence confusing bad forms as correct. All bad forms is harmful, but to say bent over row is bad is laughable.
Francis Rivas then they shouldn’t be telling people not to do them. There’s no exercise you should be doing if your form is shit. Can’t take anything these guys say seriously after this video
They doing bad forms on the bent over rows
they broke bruce lee's back
Stressing the back is not bad. Obviously, I’m talking about appropriate stress (stimulus) followed by proper recovery. Stress can be beneficial. LEARN TO BREATHE AND BRACE! Nobody talks about this. LEARN TO BREATHE AND BRACE!
I'm in more pain from hearing the jokes at the beginning lol
*Only kidding*
The OPPOSITE of what you are saying is true. These guys do not seem to understand weight lifting at all
I understand this comment, But we have worked with a lot of low back pain patients and studied how the low back experiences forces and the results with associated medical research on the topic. I wish you well. Brad
@@BobandBrad Here is why your video title is 100% incorrect. The Title would be correct if it had said "Good Mornings CAN hurt you, IF done incorrectly", same for squat, deadlift, even bicep curls. The Exercise is NOT the problem, as most can be done in a way that hurts or harms. The DIFFERENCE and thus the actual PROBLEM, is HOW. So Technique, too much weight, prog too many weeks w same movement, I could go on and on w the variables. You guys are coming from 1x modality and do NOT understand how it can be done correctly for benefit of the posterior chain, so you made a video that says it WILL hurt your back VS it can. Big difference and its irresponsible!
The law of accommodation will always prevail when given the right resistance for the trainee. I'm a powerlifter/ strongman and good mornings have helped me recover from being hit by a car while crossing the road. You just have to make sure you are executing the exercise correctly and are loading according to your strength. Yes they do have a limiting factor for most people as it takes a while to learn proper form. Just make sure you listen to your body and don't push too far on these exercises. Yet they do have a place in the program. If you don't train these compromised positions when you find yourself in them you will be in a world of hurt. Remember weak things break.
Also guys, are you saying you can never use your back for anything? Not using a muscle can be cause for just as many injuries as using muscles incorrectly.
Well yeah if you do it with terrible form like you guys, you'll hurt your back. Do any exercise with poor form and you're asking for trouble
Bruce Lee injured his back doing the Good morning Exercise and had a serious impact on him
Any lift can injure you if you go to heavy. Do things safely and with a lift like this don't over do it. This isn't an exercise you push the limits of.
Clowns
I do good mornings with 110kg, do i have back pain? Back problems? Absolutely not. Don't demonize movements... This statements causes kinesiophobia (incapacitating fear of movement) in the general population, we humans are highly adaptable systems capable of handling load in any movement if it is dosed progressively. So move freely without fear!!!
The first video I can easily say you guys are completely on this one. Someone doing any exercise incorrectly can injure themselves. Fellas, the form you are showing would hurt anyone. You’re typically spot on so one incorrect vid isn’t the end of the world
I love your videos, but this is the first one I've seen that's just on it's face wrong, and I'd dare say even stupid.
I think there's an argument to be made about good mornings being unnecessarily dangerous, and you can just swap it out for RDLs. But to say you shouldn't lift with a bent back ever is just ignorant imo. If you train in that position you'll get stronger in that position. And if you avoid it entirely you'll be weak in that position. So you might say just avoid that position entirely, except in the real world you're going to end up in that position at some point. Examples when you're picking up odd shaped items when moving, restraining my big dog while he's between my legs, pulling someone up from a ledge, etc. Not to mention all the weird positions you might end up in playing various sports (playing a game of pick up basketball you might tilt over and get in a compromised position)
I think it's much better to understand the limitations of the movement pattern and get strong in any position rather than just pretend like it can be avoided entirely.
Errors in this video…
1. He has bar in High-bar position
2. He is bending his spine, instead of sliding hips back and keeping spinal tension
Correct Statements
1. Even with perfect form, muscle fatigue will cause breakdown in form with this exercise
You are doing good mornings completely wrong!!! Please do not scare people away from this exercise. Proper good mornings are NEVER EVER done with straight legs, it is not lower back isolation movement, you are suppose to start the movement with the bending with your knees, following the bend with your pelvis and drive the whole movement with your hamstrings and glutes. If you have even done deadlifts, this is precisely the same movement except the weight is on the top.
This whole segment is a straw man argument against good mornings.
Im sure they could show how science prove yoga is the worst excersise in 10 minutes too 😂.
Its about good posture and good knowledge amd selfawareness when doimg them amd when to stop of fatique loses your performamce
Kinesiophobia: an irrational fear of physical movement and activity resulting from a feeling of vulnerability.
So many exercises can cause injury if they are not done properly. Most people don’t have body awareness, which makes a lot of movements dangerous.
Bent over rows are fine. Your form (I am guessing) is exaggerated. The load on bent over rows and kb swings should always be in the hamstrings.
this is probably for those who cant do a proper good morning or has a back problem...
There is no such thing as a safe lift if you do it wrong. These demos merely demonstrate the wrong way to do it.
im sorry but you guys are wrong, good mornings are a great exercice for lower back if not the best
I was told good mornings sitting on a bench with light weight is helpful and safer then doing them standing or with a bar over your head any truth to this ?
You are correct- Bruce Lee wrecked his back doing good mornings
if you have weak back muscles, you're going to get injured trying to do these out of the blue.... i would imagine the majority of those "studies" are on people of "average" fitness who would sprain an ankle buttoning up their shirts
The only thing worse than the logic and approach of this video is the sound quality
I love how everyone in the comments are chiropractors, physical therapists, and anatomy professionals.
Regular viewer of yours but dont agree how the barbell rowing and good morning is done as per u demonstrated 😩
At least be able to perform these excercises before you critice them.
Bro do not listen to dudes who can't even do the exercise in question correctly
Watch this channel, then watch kneesovertoes channel....aka ATG,
Good mornings makes for a strong and muscular back actually
Everything these guys said in the video. Do the opposite.
But don't you want to be strong in those positions so you don't hurt yourself? Just like training knees over toes you can't avoid it your whole life so might as well be strong in that position so when it happens you don't hurt yourself.
It's all about progression and posture. If your body is compensating and your not able to perform it with no weight, you shouldnt add weight. Its a proceed with caution like any time you lift anything
Exactly. Strengthening your lower back is crucial. Especially if you're sitting in an office all day.
Well yeah it increases stress, how else are you suppose to get stronger?
You guys are great, my absolute favorites!
It is progressive start with low weight when you have no muscles in upper glutes and when the muscle develops you can progress the weight
Example of too much theory and no practical
Bentover barbell rows caused me to pull a muscle.
For you, clearly You were not taught properly.
i dont understand anything west of time
what does your cumulative experience say?
Boys, you’ve missed the mark on this one
So much misinformation in this video.
GOOD MORNING VERY GOOD FOR STRENGH BACK
So what the back muscles for
Just do band good mornings instead