We have the 200 35Kw weather comp combi, it is an excellent bit of kit with very good build quality and components (SS heat exchanger and minimal plastic bits which are prone to pinhole leaks on many makes). The weather comp means that you don't have an internal thermostat which means that the house temperature doesn't yo-yo up and down as the thermostat clicks in and out. The external sensor means that the boiler ups the rad temp and flow rates as it cools down outside and vice versa which means the house temp stays stable. Longer burner run times at a low modulation also reduces the number of burner starts which improves efficiency. All in all a very capable machine and recommended
Viessmann is the best! I’ve been to their Germany factories twice! I’ve been selling them for Ferguson in the USA for over 15 years. It always comes down to the installation so you can expect to pay a lot for a professional job. There are a lot of hacks out there that really don’t know what they’re doing. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Don't underestimate Italian boilers.The majority of combil boilers should last over ten years if serviced regulary.
I went with the viessmann vittodens 100w combi after watching your video and a couple of others in Sep 20 to replace a valiant system boiler that had a corroded aluminium heat exchanger. Took out the header and their water tank so less pipe runvolume and more cupboard space. Had engineer fit it after I did the wet side. It's been through winter and the house is transformed. I also fitted the Honeywell evo home smart system. By programming timings and temps in rooms so the coming on is staggered nkt all at once and running the boiler output temp at 66 C I am getting great efficiency. Did not do weather comp as smart system fitted AND we have 2ft thick walls..... so the outside weather takes days to come in, I think smart system is better than single point weather comp in a Victorian house. The 6:1 modulation works very well though I run with 1 bar on display after coming down from 6 on start up. I am in a 5 bed house so for smaller houses the 200 series with a larger modulation range would be needed to prevent cycling inefficiency. I get some inefficiency as the boiler will go to one bar then infrequently cycle. A 10 to 1 modulation on my 35kw unit would probably be ideal but happy with improvement I have and I can adjust the load with the smart system as it cycles when I have fewer than 5 radiators open to heat. More than 5 no cycling so far. Great video. I was a Worcester Bosch fan but now Viessmann fan after cutting open the failed aluminium heat exchanger to determine the failure more of the old boiler. It was gunged up and corroded. Hopefully ss will work for 20 years.
Good vid again.And thank you for being upfront and honest about the "sponsorship" side as many youtubers seem to forget to overtly let the audience know.
Always nice to have an efficient “working” boiler. Look forward to the install video. You do great work and manage to video and present it really well. Thoroughly enjoying following your restoration process.
Samina Ali Go onto the which magazine and check their reviews they are the best you can probably buy I think and I have five in service at the moment all have been brilliant
Hi Tim and fam! Great video! 👌👌👌👌 Can I just correct a couple of small errors for your audience? Small things, but, you do not necessarily need to use the 4 pipe option in order to enable the weather compensation. 4 pipe option just makes it slightly easier. Viessmann sell a 'cylinder demand relay box' that can be use to wire a normal y plan system as a w plan. Or an s plan system as hot water priority. Not a big deal for most heating engineers. Secondly I know this vid is old now, but weather compensation will absolutely suit your house. The boiler will still be able to achieve those high temperatures and the weather compensation has different curves you can select so it will o ly drop in flow temp when you house doesn't need red hot rads. If fact I would argue it needs it more as most savings are to be had getting the initial flow temp of 75 odd degrees down.. Anyway.. great vid still and keep em coming!! 👌👌👌
Great video as always. I have a Vitodens 200-W 35kW and Vitocell 200-V 250L plus weather comp and the Vitotronic 100 7-day programmer. Truthfully I have mixed feelings about the system. The hardware itself is exceptional. The house is always the perfect temperature. Our heating bills are very low thanks to all the cleaver features mentioned in this video. Viessmann customer support were very helpful when we had issues with the Vitocell making a humming noise. So why the mixed feelings? 6 months after the warranty expired on the Vitodens 200 the PCB broke. Cost of replacement: £650 + VAT. My plumber genuinely asked me if he should just install a new boiler as it would cost a similar amount and I’d get a new warranty. Those are conversations I never expected to have when fitting a system of this quality and expense. In fairness to Viessmann, my plumber, who is a Viessmann approved installer, said he had never seen this happen on another boiler. That’s all well and good but it hurts to be the exception to the rule and Viessmann didn’t treat my misfortune with anything but the standard approach.
Did your boiler fail at 10 years & 6 months? You should have had a 10 year guarantee from Viessmann if the boiler was fitted by an approved Viessmann installer.
I agree with metallitech get it fixed. The PCB thing is a complete con. It should never cost that much. There are loads of people with a soldering iron who will do a cheap repair and often put in a more reliable relay.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. In the future I am guessing that weather comp will be a regulatory requirement. You should really have the 200 if weather comp is an issue, since on that one you can even edit the curve. But you seem to understand it well and I am sure that Viessmann wanted to give you the 100 because they are promoting it quite hard at the moment. I have the 100 with weather comp. It's a good boiler. The board was a dud but they replaced it quickly. Their service seems excellent.
We’ve got one of them boilers So far it’s good, we’ve had it 2 years, we had renovations, and it had some problems, the plumber had to replace the pcb or something!
Great video, thank you. I have a Victorian 3 bed terrace (1300 sqft). Currently have a conventional system. I am in the process of full renovation and the boiler is pretty old (although works fine). Previously the house was HMO with 4 bedrooms (sink in each), utility room (with sink), downstairs WC (with sink), upstairs WC (with sink) and then the bathroom (with sink, bath taps and shower) oh and a kitchen obviously. There are currently more radiators than you can shake a stick at! I will be removing all sinks from bedrooms. The WC/utility will be knocked into one with the sink being a butler sink where people will also wash their hands so only one set of taps. The upstairs WC/bathroom will be knocked through also so another sink gone. My question is now with 6 sinks being lost and a reduction in rads (due to getting a multi fuel burner in lounge) do I even need to have the huge system? My plan ATM will be new large combi (preferably baxi) in the utility, the kitchen will be next door and bathroom directly above so there won't be any long 'deadpipe'. Just looking for you advice please.
All heating systems without a buffer in between the heat source and the point of use have an issue with maximising efficiency. The simple truth is that, like a car, there is an optimum temperature (or speed) setting at which the boiler is getting the most out of each unit of fuel/gas etc.. I have a pellet boiler, but would never consider installing one without a heat store. Your solution has no buffer, thus modulating temperature output is a solution to as you put it ‘having to run flat out’. However, compared with a buffered system, your boiler will rarely operating at optimum temperature/burn, but at least you will not be going to the other extreme. Good video.
Well I do have the 500l buffer sat behind the garage still..... :-) Did look at tieing it in to the new boiler but weighing up the benefit v floor space decided against it. Saving it for a future renewables project.
I look forward to you installing that in your system one day, I am a great believer in systems which are simple and do not have diverter/3way valves. As you mention, understating how your house works with respect to heat absorption and thermal inertia is key, adding insulation is always the best option before sizing of heat output. I have over 2500 sqft of living space in my home and a 15KW pellet boiler. I spent more on insulation than I did on the heating system and now reap the rewards.
My boiler also has a significant turndown ratio, but although the theory and designed capability of the boiler may be possible, the question remains on how to optimise the boiler cycle time and heat output. When it comes to solid fuel and biomass, you are burning something that cannot just be modulated as in a gas or oil burner. In large scale power plants this problem was overcome by having multiple burners that could be switched on or Goff, as well as pulverising the fuel (coal) to a fine powder in order to make it act as a fluid. I heat over 300 sqm using a 15Kw boiler working for no more than 6 hours per day in winter. It operates at maximum output and I empty the 2 soft capacity ashtray 4 times per year and burn between 4 and 5 tonnes of granules per year. The ash is white/grey..... if you ever have black ash from such a burner, you are clearly not burning all of the carbon.... thus your burner is not operating at optimal output. The solution is to introduce a dynamic inertia into the system to both optimise heat source efficiency and provide simpler control of the heat usage, complicated turndown functionality is a compromise when the heat usages is unbalanced against the heat source. I prefer to keep things simple.
We absolutely love our (Utica) high efficiency propane boiler!! It was a very difficult choice.. wood, geothermal, etc.. but, gas made the most sense for us too.. we’re looking at Runtal Radiators.. do you think you could do a quick video on radiator options? Love the videos man! Thanks!
Four pipe system is no good technilogical overkill, you can have weather compensation on a two pipe system. Room stats ,thermorad valves is all you need . I have been in the industry over 2o years
Thanks for the information Tim, Watch nearly every video on the channel (wife's sick of your voice haha) but its giving us great insight and confidence on the full renovation in 6months were about to do on a 70s property. The info on the pipe system has just helped narrow down the boiler for our rad/underfloor heating, but a question is whats the red thing next to the boiler?. Keep up the good work!
Hi I'm moving to a house with well water. Using salt water softener. Which boiler is going to be good for my condition. Because I read this water is not good for rubber seals. And it's very corrosive. Thank you
Yes it has gone to a new home. I feared the loading process, especially when I saw the size of the lorry. Fortunately he had a powered pallet truck and with a bit of help went up the bumpy lane to the main road no problem.
Awesome! It Looks Very-Nice !!! :-) You Guys are By-Far one-of-My-Favorite YT-Channels !!! -- When it has been a few Days - without a New-Video - it Hurts! ;-)
@@andrewmillwardwatford9410 Andrew do you know if there is a common failure point on the PCB? On other boards it is quite common for capacitors to let go but normally 15-20 years plus - just repaired my PCB on a Gloworm 50 FF - one capacitor had let go but I changed all of them (bugger the expense) - total repair cost about £5 - 1/2 of which was postage and I now have a load of capacitors in my come in handy drawer that will probably never get used.
Does anyone know how the running costs compare with a combi vs a system boiler and tank. Do unvented tanks cost a lot to keep warm? We have a 3 bed house with 2 bathrooms. Thinking of installing underfloor heating just downstairs. Thanks in advance!
Hi tim another great video, have watched them all can’t get enough. Just after some advice if you have a minute. I have a single skin porch on my house and it’s consistently damp and mouldy what would be the best idea to do? Stud it out insulate then plaster or can you recommend anything else? Thanks
First thing is to establish if it is 'damp' or condensation forming inside. I wouldn't start insulating until you can ensure moisture isn't coming through or up the walls. If it is then best to sort that first, that will depend on many things like, is it painted, rendered, breathable, dpc, etc. Usually if dap showing higher up the wall then condenstaion or gutter at fault.
Sad to see the biomass go, it looked like a nice set up. What were the main reasons you got rid? I ask as a plumber who has a new build rural house, currently in the fuel decision making stage. Great videos too! Cheers.
Big heating demand and no bulk storage or auto feeding so manually handling 1000kg pellets a month in plastic bags. It also took up much needed space in the now converted garage. It was a great install but better suited in an outbuilding rather than a utility. If i did it again I’d rather put my money in to insulation (and airsource) unfortunately big old houses don’t suit many eco options. 🙁
Just read it’s a new build, I would guess it would be to efficient for a dedicated biomass setup as you probably don’t need such high flow temps as we did.
@@TheRestorationCouple Thank you. I've been swaying from airsource to biomass for weeks now. I appreciate your reply. All the best with the Viessmann, definitely a good choice there. Cheers
Hi thank you for this video. Can you pin an update. How is the boiler so far? Smooth sailing? Any issue we should be aware of? I am thinking of getting this boiler. An update would be appreciated Thanks George
The logic behind the four pipe system, the outside temp compensation sensor, and temp modulation thing sounds a bit iffy. First, if the room temp is relatively warm, the room thermostat will send the hot water to the cylinder via two way valve, until such time as the cylinder stat turns the boiler off. So where’s the point of a whole lot of expense on extra piping and control gear. Second, if it’s cold outside, it’ll be cold inside, so the rads will take longer to heat the room up, and this will be controlled by the normal boiler thermostat. No need for any outside temp measurements. Third, like most machines, boilers and pumps work most efficiently at full load, when the flue is up to temp and recovering most heat. The analogy with driving a vehicle is totally bogus, as that has wind resistance to cope with. Besides which eve this analogy doesn’t hold water, as Motor magazine did a test about thirty years ago, driving vehicles around a track, one at a constant speed and one where they accelerated upto high speed then coasted with engine off to low speed, with the aim of matching the pace between the two, and the latter proved to be more efficient. Seems like a lot of extra, needless expense done for the benefit of the boiler manufacturers and installers, for minimal if any gain, leaving behind a whole load of extra things to go wrong in years to come.
A lot of incorrect assumptions. Weather comp gives hot rads when the weather is cold and warm when its warm outside. Result is perfect home temperature. Viessmann can be installed as a four pipe so no control valves and wiring are needed. Alternatively an extra part allows it to work as a two pipe.
did you look at intergas boilers? I am considering one, there is very little info about them online, but they have been popular in holland for years. They fully condense at all temperatures, have only four moving parts, can be used as a combi or system boiler just by changing the settings, and they have apparently never had a heat exchanger failure. I'm very tempted after experiencing several big brand boilers in various properties over the years, all of which have disappointed. I'm wondering if they cropped up in your discussions, and if so what made you decide against one?
Spencer Wilton The Intergas is a good boiler. Very simple but you have to have a mag filter to get the warranty. Ideal boilers now have a built in filter and a long warranty. The good news is that boilers are generally more reliable than ever but before you make up your mind check out the cost of a a couple of random spares such as a new PCB and a fan. That way when the warranty runs out you will have some idea of which is cheapest for spares.
i've just had a new boiler fitted last week, a logic max 30. i've noticed the heating coming on even though ive set the thermostat to be on the lowest temp (5 degC). this means the house is around 20 degC when im not in or when the rads should be off. why is this?
Is it your room thermostat set to 5deg? I would suggest at the very least changing the programmer to only be on at the times you want it. Then look at whatever thermostat issue there might be.
@@TheRestorationCouple yes the room stat is set to 5 degC. the programmer has only 2 options both are on lol (i cant program it to be off. i have to do that manually). one is to be on at the comfort temp. which i set to 19.5 and the other one is eco temp 5 degC. my problem is when its at eco temp the rad are still warm/ hot and the room temp is around 19 :/
Can anyone confirm that you should keep the filling loop flexi physically disconnected when not in use, I've read in lots of forums that it should, but whenever you see a boiler video it's always installed 24/7?
It’s a water bi law that means it should be disconnected at all times when not in use to insure there can be no cross contamination of drinking water with the central heating water, they have to have a non return valve in as standard and it would be very unlikely this happening but your local water company will charge a small fortune to clean the mains water if it ever got into it! Same kind of bi laws that state your shower hose cannot get into the bath water why that silly hook stops the hose from moving as far as you need it too and why a outside tap needs a none return valve too. But of course no one ever disconnects the thing me included 😂
ZanderKane Yes, in theory, it should be disconnected but few people do it. The contamination is one thing but, if the isolating valves (x2) are letting by the system can be over-pressured and dripping water out of the pressure relief valve. Water regs are there to stop contamination and waste of water.
Yes, the rules are, quite rightly, there for the benefit of the water board, but IMV the main issue with these always permanently installed filling loops is that people don't know how to use them properly - leading, as you say, to over-pressurising the system and early failure. They are the absolute bane of my life in our rentals where I am for ever having to replace scaled up boilers way before they are due. Once the over-pressure valve has been 'blown' that first time that just about appears to sign the death warrant for the boiler as the valve hardly ever reseats properly thus leading to constant pressure loss, followed by constant topping up - the regular operating of the filler valves to then over-pressurise the boiler and leading to them not being closed properly further exacerbating the whole issue resulting in the system entering into an expensive death-spiral from thereon in. I came across a possible solution to the issue a few days ago (but, typically, have mislaid the link now!). Somebody is making a device which is intended to be permanently installed for filling purposes but the operator has to keep pressing on a plunger to operate the valve. The boiler could still be over-pressurised with this scheme but at least in theory the filling loop can't be left insufficiently closed. I guess only tie would tell as to whether the valve seat seal on this system would have sufficient longevity to ultimately be a good long term solution...
So for those who are not from the UK the "first floor" is what others call the second floor. Their first floor is not the floor at ground level which you first walk onto when entering a house, the second floor you reach entering a house is their so called first floor because of logic.
Government are making cars unreliable now, as well as boilers, with their unreasonable demands for max 'efficiency'. Though from what I understand the Viessmann is pretty good.
Note to self do not bother with government supported so called greener energy schemes or devices. The visseman boilers are the flavour of the month with many installers. Many installers are pushing this branded boiler as the cream of crop as very often installer strike deals with manufacturers to push their products. Even the chap that services my boiler really rates them. I suppose only time will tell because 5-10 years ago is was Worcester Bosch that people were raving about and now time spent has shown that they were not all that.....maybe too this will be the case with Visseman....who knows but all initial signs appear good. Good to see you have decided to rip out the monster and go for something that is actually worth while having and more practical in this day and age. I have never had any first hand experience with using this brand of boiler so will look forward to seeing how it works out for your guys. If it ticks all the boxes for your home, then it can't be bad!
My mum and dad have a Vailiant boiler installed and after only a few years it went from bad to worse and now they wish they never had the thing installed. Yet in a rental I used to live in 10 years ago it had the older more mechanical type Valiant boiler installed and that was very good and no real issues. So like with anything it can be luck of the draw. I suppose the two market leaders now are Worcester Bosch and now Viessman but for reliability and technology Viessman are just pipping Worcester Bosch to the post.
@Mashud Ahmed I had a Valliant combi I'm the late 90's. It ran on LPG. When natural gas became available a couple of years later, I had it fitted to run on that. It broke down within a couple of years and I was advised to scrap it at under 6 years old. It put me off the brand. I often wonder if the conversion was the problem, or whether having moved on to a different engineer who had no experience with the brand was a factor. With hindsight I wish I'd got a second opinion from someone more familiar with the brand. I think you should have any brand of boiler worked on by someone familiar with that brand. I got a Baxi replacement around 2004-5 and it's still going with only a replacement of a control board and one or two minor issues since. Annual services are essential! Two old Wocester Bosch 28i models from 2003 as well in other properties - replaced one a year ago, the other still going well.
We have the 200 35Kw weather comp combi, it is an excellent bit of kit with very good build quality and components (SS heat exchanger and minimal plastic bits which are prone to pinhole leaks on many makes). The weather comp means that you don't have an internal thermostat which means that the house temperature doesn't yo-yo up and down as the thermostat clicks in and out. The external sensor means that the boiler ups the rad temp and flow rates as it cools down outside and vice versa which means the house temp stays stable. Longer burner run times at a low modulation also reduces the number of burner starts which improves efficiency. All in all a very capable machine and recommended
Have had a Viessmann Vitodens 222 for 3 years now, and it is excellent (superb performance/consumption/reliability)
How's it running mate? It doesn't have an immersion heater is that an issue for you?
Viessmann is the best! I’ve been to their Germany factories twice! I’ve been selling them for Ferguson in the USA for over 15 years. It always comes down to the installation so you can expect to pay a lot for a professional job. There are a lot of hacks out there that really don’t know what they’re doing. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Don't underestimate Italian boilers.The majority of combil boilers should last over ten years if serviced regulary.
I went with the viessmann vittodens 100w combi after watching your video and a couple of others in Sep 20 to replace a valiant system boiler that had a corroded aluminium heat exchanger. Took out the header and their water tank so less pipe runvolume and more cupboard space. Had engineer fit it after I did the wet side. It's been through winter and the house is transformed. I also fitted the Honeywell evo home smart system. By programming timings and temps in rooms so the coming on is staggered nkt all at once and running the boiler output temp at 66 C I am getting great efficiency. Did not do weather comp as smart system fitted AND we have 2ft thick walls..... so the outside weather takes days to come in, I think smart system is better than single point weather comp in a Victorian house. The 6:1 modulation works very well though I run with 1 bar on display after coming down from 6 on start up. I am in a 5 bed house so for smaller houses the 200 series with a larger modulation range would be needed to prevent cycling inefficiency. I get some inefficiency as the boiler will go to one bar then infrequently cycle. A 10 to 1 modulation on my 35kw unit would probably be ideal but happy with improvement I have and I can adjust the load with the smart system as it cycles when I have fewer than 5 radiators open to heat. More than 5 no cycling so far.
Great video. I was a Worcester Bosch fan but now Viessmann fan after cutting open the failed aluminium heat exchanger to determine the failure more of the old boiler. It was gunged up and corroded. Hopefully ss will work for 20 years.
Just had a vitodens 50 installed.Brilliant.
Good vid again.And thank you for being upfront and honest about the "sponsorship" side as many youtubers seem to forget to overtly let the audience know.
Always nice to have an efficient “working” boiler. Look forward to the install video. You do great work and manage to video and present it really well. Thoroughly enjoying following your restoration process.
Viessmann are GREAT boilers. Have one here. Very very reliable. Awesome design and build quality
How long have you had your viessman boiler and has it broke down at all? Also is it a combi?
Samina Ali Go onto the which magazine and check their reviews they are the best you can probably buy I think and I have five in service at the moment all have been brilliant
Have 1 two years , the 100w..
Love it…
Hi Tim and fam!
Great video! 👌👌👌👌
Can I just correct a couple of small errors for your audience?
Small things, but, you do not necessarily need to use the 4 pipe option in order to enable the weather compensation. 4 pipe option just makes it slightly easier.
Viessmann sell a 'cylinder demand relay box' that can be use to wire a normal y plan system as a w plan. Or an s plan system as hot water priority. Not a big deal for most heating engineers.
Secondly I know this vid is old now, but weather compensation will absolutely suit your house. The boiler will still be able to achieve those high temperatures and the weather compensation has different curves you can select so it will o ly drop in flow temp when you house doesn't need red hot rads. If fact I would argue it needs it more as most savings are to be had getting the initial flow temp of 75 odd degrees down..
Anyway.. great vid still and keep em coming!! 👌👌👌
Very good to see you sounding a lot happier Tim! Looking forward to the EPDM.
I've never taken a interest in boilers or heating but found this fascinating. Glad your getting your home snug for winter. Another fantastic video
Great video as always.
I have a Vitodens 200-W 35kW and Vitocell 200-V 250L plus weather comp and the Vitotronic 100 7-day programmer. Truthfully I have mixed feelings about the system. The hardware itself is exceptional. The house is always the perfect temperature. Our heating bills are very low thanks to all the cleaver features mentioned in this video. Viessmann customer support were very helpful when we had issues with the Vitocell making a humming noise. So why the mixed feelings? 6 months after the warranty expired on the Vitodens 200 the PCB broke. Cost of replacement: £650 + VAT. My plumber genuinely asked me if he should just install a new boiler as it would cost a similar amount and I’d get a new warranty. Those are conversations I never expected to have when fitting a system of this quality and expense.
In fairness to Viessmann, my plumber, who is a Viessmann approved installer, said he had never seen this happen on another boiler. That’s all well and good but it hurts to be the exception to the rule and Viessmann didn’t treat my misfortune with anything but the standard approach.
Next time see if you can get the board repaired. It probably was a relay switch or a capacitor; cost of replacement part being a few pounds.
Did your boiler fail at 10 years & 6 months? You should have had a 10 year guarantee from Viessmann if the boiler was fitted by an approved Viessmann installer.
The warranty was shorter than that. 3 or 4 years I believe. I don’t think the 10 year warranty existed back then.
I agree with metallitech get it fixed. The PCB thing is a complete con. It should never cost that much. There are loads of people with a soldering iron who will do a cheap repair and often put in a more reliable relay.
metallitech , well said I’ve repaired a few before and its very often just a relay switch which costs only £2.75!
Never heard of Viessmann boilers... but hope to find out in the next video what's under the bonnet that makes them so good
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
In the future I am guessing that weather comp will be a regulatory requirement.
You should really have the 200 if weather comp is an issue, since on that one you can even edit the curve. But you seem to understand it well and I am sure that Viessmann wanted to give you the 100 because they are promoting it quite hard at the moment. I have the 100 with weather comp. It's a good boiler. The board was a dud but they replaced it quickly. Their service seems excellent.
excellent video ... certainly helped me understand some key issues I'm thinking about with selecting a new boiler ... great stuff!
We’ve got one of them boilers
So far it’s good, we’ve had it 2 years, we had renovations, and it had some problems, the plumber had to replace the pcb or something!
Great video, thank you.
I have a Victorian 3 bed terrace (1300 sqft). Currently have a conventional system. I am in the process of full renovation and the boiler is pretty old (although works fine). Previously the house was HMO with 4 bedrooms (sink in each), utility room (with sink), downstairs WC (with sink), upstairs WC (with sink) and then the bathroom (with sink, bath taps and shower) oh and a kitchen obviously. There are currently more radiators than you can shake a stick at!
I will be removing all sinks from bedrooms.
The WC/utility will be knocked into one with the sink being a butler sink where people will also wash their hands so only one set of taps.
The upstairs WC/bathroom will be knocked through also so another sink gone.
My question is now with 6 sinks being lost and a reduction in rads (due to getting a multi fuel burner in lounge) do I even need to have the huge system? My plan ATM will be new large combi (preferably baxi) in the utility, the kitchen will be next door and bathroom directly above so there won't be any long 'deadpipe'.
Just looking for you advice please.
Fit the Viessmann 200 and live happy
you chose a good one. Viessmann is good
All heating systems without a buffer in between the heat source and the point of use have an issue with maximising efficiency. The simple truth is that, like a car, there is an optimum temperature (or speed) setting at which the boiler is getting the most out of each unit of fuel/gas etc..
I have a pellet boiler, but would never consider installing one without a heat store. Your solution has no buffer, thus modulating temperature output is a solution to as you put it ‘having to run flat out’. However, compared with a buffered system, your boiler will rarely operating at optimum temperature/burn, but at least you will not be going to the other extreme. Good video.
Well I do have the 500l buffer sat behind the garage still..... :-) Did look at tieing it in to the new boiler but weighing up the benefit v floor space decided against it. Saving it for a future renewables project.
I look forward to you installing that in your system one day, I am a great believer in systems which are simple and do not have diverter/3way valves. As you mention, understating how your house works with respect to heat absorption and thermal inertia is key, adding insulation is always the best option before sizing of heat output. I have over 2500 sqft of living space in my home and a 15KW pellet boiler. I spent more on insulation than I did on the heating system and now reap the rewards.
V200 has 17 : 1 modulation and no buffer is needed.
My boiler also has a significant turndown ratio, but although the theory and designed capability of the boiler may be possible, the question remains on how to optimise the boiler cycle time and heat output. When it comes to solid fuel and biomass, you are burning something that cannot just be modulated as in a gas or oil burner. In large scale power plants this problem was overcome by having multiple burners that could be switched on or Goff, as well as pulverising the fuel (coal) to a fine powder in order to make it act as a fluid.
I heat over 300 sqm using a 15Kw boiler working for no more than 6 hours per day in winter. It operates at maximum output and I empty the 2 soft capacity ashtray 4 times per year and burn between 4 and 5 tonnes of granules per year. The ash is white/grey..... if you ever have black ash from such a burner, you are clearly not burning all of the carbon.... thus your burner is not operating at optimal output.
The solution is to introduce a dynamic inertia into the system to both optimise heat source efficiency and provide simpler control of the heat usage, complicated turndown functionality is a compromise when the heat usages is unbalanced against the heat source. I prefer to keep things simple.
We absolutely love our (Utica) high efficiency propane boiler!! It was a very difficult choice.. wood, geothermal, etc.. but, gas made the most sense for us too.. we’re looking at Runtal Radiators.. do you think you could do a quick video on radiator options? Love the videos man! Thanks!
You chose the best.
Four pipe system is no good technilogical overkill, you can have weather compensation on a two pipe system. Room stats ,thermorad valves is all you need . I have been in the industry over 2o years
Could this whole set-up, including the tank, be installed in an attic of a 1950s end-of-terrace?
You went for a 35kW unit; what size of house do you have? How many bathrooms and how many radiators?
Not actually heard of this brand before, every plumber i've ever spoken too always suggests Valiant.
It's an extremely famous one.
@@francescomaestrelli7515 Not over here afaik.
Vailant....not Valiant
@@jonnygunner65 Actually it's Vaillant
BMJT
Ha ha ...that’ll teach me......kitchen and bathroom fitter as well.
I was too speedy for my own good.
Thanks for the information Tim, Watch nearly every video on the channel (wife's sick of your voice haha) but its giving us great insight and confidence on the full renovation in 6months were about to do on a 70s property. The info on the pipe system has just helped narrow down the boiler for our rad/underfloor heating, but a question is whats the red thing next to the boiler?. Keep up the good work!
Expansion vessel. Needed in sealed systems. (Unvented)
Did you look at thermaskirt?, if you did why didn’t you use it, just about to start my own Victorian renovation.
Hi I'm moving to a house with well water. Using salt water softener. Which boiler is going to be good for my condition. Because I read this water is not good for rubber seals. And it's very corrosive. Thank you
These boilers are excellent, did you manage to sell the old one in then end? Would of loved to see a video trying to load that thing into a lorry.
Yes it has gone to a new home. I feared the loading process, especially when I saw the size of the lorry. Fortunately he had a powered pallet truck and with a bit of help went up the bumpy lane to the main road no problem.
Awesome! It Looks Very-Nice !!! :-)
You Guys are By-Far one-of-My-Favorite YT-Channels !!!
-- When it has been a few Days - without a New-Video - it Hurts! ;-)
Thanks for your reply.
For those in the office listening with just their right earbud in..... The Plumber is in the left earbud.... :D
😂 oops! It was on the backup camera behind me so no mic!
Are they also going to reach out to you when the £500 pcb needs replacing?
Well I guess so if it's within the next 10 years ;-)
It's not just the costs it's the lead time on parts. Two week wait on the dhw heat exchanger.... pretty poor tbh.
Philip Tomkins
I’m in Brighton on the south coast of England and I can get the parts for the viessmann boiler the very next day
Next day for all parts from Viessmann direct. Pcb for the one hundred is about 300 pounds I think.
@@andrewmillwardwatford9410 Andrew do you know if there is a common failure point on the PCB? On other boards it is quite common for capacitors to let go but normally 15-20 years plus - just repaired my PCB on a Gloworm 50 FF - one capacitor had let go but I changed all of them (bugger the expense) - total repair cost about £5 - 1/2 of which was postage and I now have a load of capacitors in my come in handy drawer that will probably never get used.
I think Viessmann should do a promo code for the release of your install video ;) ;) ;)
I think probably Viessmann paid for the gas boiler ! So much gushing about how wonderful Viessmann are !
Yeah, it was a collaboration
Does anyone know how the running costs compare with a combi vs a system boiler and tank. Do unvented tanks cost a lot to keep warm? We have a 3 bed house with 2 bathrooms. Thinking of installing underfloor heating just downstairs. Thanks in advance!
Didn't want to go for openterm? Just want to switch mine 100W and looking for a good video to show how.
Great update 👍🏻
Hi tim another great video, have watched them all can’t get enough.
Just after some advice if you have a minute. I have a single skin porch on my house and it’s consistently damp and mouldy what would be the best idea to do? Stud it out insulate then plaster or can you recommend anything else? Thanks
First thing is to establish if it is 'damp' or condensation forming inside. I wouldn't start insulating until you can ensure moisture isn't coming through or up the walls. If it is then best to sort that first, that will depend on many things like, is it painted, rendered, breathable, dpc, etc. Usually if dap showing higher up the wall then condenstaion or gutter at fault.
The Restoration Couple thanks Tim appreciate it
Sad to see the biomass go, it looked like a nice set up. What were the main reasons you got rid? I ask as a plumber who has a new build rural house, currently in the fuel decision making stage. Great videos too! Cheers.
Big heating demand and no bulk storage or auto feeding so manually handling 1000kg pellets a month in plastic bags. It also took up much needed space in the now converted garage. It was a great install but better suited in an outbuilding rather than a utility. If i did it again I’d rather put my money in to insulation (and airsource) unfortunately big old houses don’t suit many eco options. 🙁
Just read it’s a new build, I would guess it would be to efficient for a dedicated biomass setup as you probably don’t need such high flow temps as we did.
@@TheRestorationCouple Thank you. I've been swaying from airsource to biomass for weeks now. I appreciate your reply. All the best with the Viessmann, definitely a good choice there. Cheers
Hey what did you do with the old boiler was it difficult to sell?
yankeydoodle101 it was sold
Is your new boiler electric, propane or natural gas? Otherwise, a very good video!
Natural.
Hi thank you for this video. Can you pin an update. How is the boiler so far? Smooth sailing? Any issue we should be aware of? I am thinking of getting this boiler. An update would be appreciated Thanks George
The logic behind the four pipe system, the outside temp compensation sensor, and temp modulation thing sounds a bit iffy.
First, if the room temp is relatively warm, the room thermostat will send the hot water to the cylinder via two way valve, until such time as the cylinder stat turns the boiler off. So where’s the point of a whole lot of expense on extra piping and control gear.
Second, if it’s cold outside, it’ll be cold inside, so the rads will take longer to heat the room up, and this will be controlled by the normal boiler thermostat. No need for any outside temp measurements.
Third, like most machines, boilers and pumps work most efficiently at full load, when the flue is up to temp and recovering most heat. The analogy with driving a vehicle is totally bogus, as that has wind resistance to cope with. Besides which eve this analogy doesn’t hold water, as Motor magazine did a test about thirty years ago, driving vehicles around a track, one at a constant speed and one where they accelerated upto high speed then coasted with engine off to low speed, with the aim of matching the pace between the two, and the latter proved to be more efficient.
Seems like a lot of extra, needless expense done for the benefit of the boiler manufacturers and installers, for minimal if any gain, leaving behind a whole load of extra things to go wrong in years to come.
Sound like you've not a clue what your talking about
Matt Mackenzie - Well perhaps you could illuminate me with your obvious expertise.
A lot of incorrect assumptions. Weather comp gives hot rads when the weather is cold and warm when its warm outside. Result is perfect home temperature.
Viessmann can be installed as a four pipe so no control valves and wiring are needed. Alternatively an extra part allows it to work as a two pipe.
Why did you choose not to fit a combi?
Size of house and the fact we already had an almost new cylinder for DHW.
Are you on oil or gas or more to the point does the boiler come in oil or gas 👍
Gas. Not sure on oil options as we swapped out from oil the year we moved here.
did you look at intergas boilers? I am considering one, there is very little info about them online, but they have been popular in holland for years. They fully condense at all temperatures, have only four moving parts, can be used as a combi or system boiler just by changing the settings, and they have apparently never had a heat exchanger failure. I'm very tempted after experiencing several big brand boilers in various properties over the years, all of which have disappointed. I'm wondering if they cropped up in your discussions, and if so what made you decide against one?
They did come up and our installer has installed them before. No reasons against, we just went on the positive reviews of the Viessmanns.
Spencer Wilton
The Intergas is a good boiler. Very simple but you have to have a mag filter to get the warranty. Ideal boilers now have a built in filter and a long warranty. The good news is that boilers are generally more reliable than ever but before you make up your mind check out the cost of a a couple of random spares such as a new PCB and a fan. That way when the warranty runs out you will have some idea of which is cheapest for spares.
Do they have plastic hydro parts ?
Yes.
i've just had a new boiler fitted last week, a logic max 30. i've noticed the heating coming on even though ive set the thermostat to be on the lowest temp (5 degC). this means the house is around 20 degC when im not in or when the rads should be off. why is this?
Is it your room thermostat set to 5deg? I would suggest at the very least changing the programmer to only be on at the times you want it. Then look at whatever thermostat issue there might be.
@@TheRestorationCouple yes the room stat is set to 5 degC. the programmer has only 2 options both are on lol (i cant program it to be off. i have to do that manually). one is to be on at the comfort temp. which i set to 19.5 and the other one is eco temp 5 degC. my problem is when its at eco temp the rad are still warm/ hot and the room temp is around 19 :/
Sounds like you have the programmer set to constant comfort temperature instead of auto/timed
al50481 thanks for your reply. It’s all sorted now. Was wired incorrectly
Can anyone confirm that you should keep the filling loop flexi physically disconnected when not in use, I've read in lots of forums that it should, but whenever you see a boiler video it's always installed 24/7?
Funny, I asked the same thing to the installer. Tbh can’t remember his answer but I think it’s one of those should be done but never is type things. 🙄
It’s a water bi law that means it should be disconnected at all times when not in use to insure there can be no cross contamination of drinking water with the central heating water, they have to have a non return valve in as standard and it would be very unlikely this happening but your local water company will charge a small fortune to clean the mains water if it ever got into it! Same kind of bi laws that state your shower hose cannot get into the bath water why that silly hook stops the hose from moving as far as you need it too and why a outside tap needs a none return valve too. But of course no one ever disconnects the thing me included 😂
ZanderKane
Yes, in theory, it should be disconnected but few people do it. The contamination is one thing but, if the isolating valves (x2) are letting by the system can be over-pressured and dripping water out of the pressure relief valve. Water regs are there to stop contamination and waste of water.
Yes, the rules are, quite rightly, there for the benefit of the water board, but IMV the main issue with these always permanently installed filling loops is that people don't know how to use them properly - leading, as you say, to over-pressurising the system and early failure. They are the absolute bane of my life in our rentals where I am for ever having to replace scaled up boilers way before they are due.
Once the over-pressure valve has been 'blown' that first time that just about appears to sign the death warrant for the boiler as the valve hardly ever reseats properly thus leading to constant pressure loss, followed by constant topping up - the regular operating of the filler valves to then over-pressurise the boiler and leading to them not being closed properly further exacerbating the whole issue resulting in the system entering into an expensive death-spiral from thereon in.
I came across a possible solution to the issue a few days ago (but, typically, have mislaid the link now!). Somebody is making a device which is intended to be permanently installed for filling purposes but the operator has to keep pressing on a plunger to operate the valve. The boiler could still be over-pressurised with this scheme but at least in theory the filling loop can't be left insufficiently closed. I guess only tie would tell as to whether the valve seat seal on this system would have sufficient longevity to ultimately be a good long term solution...
Great video as usual. What’s the cost of one of these plus the install?
About 2 to 4 k depending on work required
So for those who are not from the UK the "first floor" is what others call the second floor. Their first floor is not the floor at ground level which you first walk onto when entering a house, the second floor you reach entering a house is their so called first floor because of logic.
Government are making cars unreliable now, as well as boilers, with their unreasonable demands for max 'efficiency'. Though from what I understand the Viessmann is pretty good.
vitodens who the hell thought up that name?
Note to self do not bother with government supported so called greener energy schemes or devices. The visseman boilers are the flavour of the month with many installers. Many installers are pushing this branded boiler as the cream of crop as very often installer strike deals with manufacturers to push their products. Even the chap that services my boiler really rates them. I suppose only time will tell because 5-10 years ago is was Worcester Bosch that people were raving about and now time spent has shown that they were not all that.....maybe too this will be the case with Visseman....who knows but all initial signs appear good.
Good to see you have decided to rip out the monster and go for something that is actually worth while having and more practical in this day and age. I have never had any first hand experience with using this brand of boiler so will look forward to seeing how it works out for your guys. If it ticks all the boxes for your home, then it can't be bad!
My mum and dad have a Vailiant boiler installed and after only a few years it went from bad to worse and now they wish they never had the thing installed. Yet in a rental I used to live in 10 years ago it had the older more mechanical type Valiant boiler installed and that was very good and no real issues. So like with anything it can be luck of the draw. I suppose the two market leaders now are Worcester Bosch and now Viessman but for reliability and technology Viessman are just pipping Worcester Bosch to the post.
@Mashud Ahmed I had a Valliant combi I'm the late 90's. It ran on LPG. When natural gas became available a couple of years later, I had it fitted to run on that. It broke down within a couple of years and I was advised to scrap it at under 6 years old. It put me off the brand. I often wonder if the conversion was the problem, or whether having moved on to a different engineer who had no experience with the brand was a factor. With hindsight I wish I'd got a second opinion from someone more familiar with the brand. I think you should have any brand of boiler worked on by someone familiar with that brand. I got a Baxi replacement around 2004-5 and it's still going with only a replacement of a control board and one or two minor issues since. Annual services are essential! Two old Wocester Bosch 28i models from 2003 as well in other properties - replaced one a year ago, the other still going well.
German made! :p
No sound on jason's explanation...
Should be. It wasn’t recorded on the main cam and mic so poor quality but thought still worth including.
@@TheRestorationCouple i was interested in what he had to say but couldnt hear anything...ill try it later with my headphones in...👍
German boiler when a U.K. manufactured boiler would have served you well.
Yes , you should have chosen a british boiler Ideal or baxi which have french made heat exchangers and Danish pumps (Danfoss)
They are crap, needed new PCB after 3 years.
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Free boiler?
Help pay for nappies.
Too much waffle.