New Discount Codes - Get £50 off your order with Heatable, use link bit.ly/3QJGo11 (Affiliate) and enter voucher code CAMERON50 at the payment stage! Alternatively use the above link with voucher code NESTCAMERON to get a *free Nest Thermostat* included with your order worth £215! UPDATE! A couple of days after my installation, the installer got back in touch saying that he needed to come back and fit a plume kit - As far as I can tell, Heatable had checked over the install and had determined that a plume kit did in fact need to be fitted as the flue was within 300mm of an internal corner which is not allowed based on Viessmann's instructions. While this does now mean I have a relatively unattractive plume kit, it does go to show the benefit of using a company like Heatable who will check over the install and make sure it complies. Had this not happened I'd have been none the wiser until potentially I needed to claim on the Viessmann warranty and could have had an issue because it wasn't installed in accordance with their instructions.
I'm glad you had a better experience with Heatable than me, used them after seeing this video and wanting a Viessmann boiler, took a week and 3 heating engineers before the job was complete and it was meant to be a straight swap out. The first engineer took the old boiler off the wall and left at lunchtime on day 1 as the new boiler hadent arrived yet leaving the old boiler just dumped in my driveway (I didnt even know until I went out and saw it sitting there after he left), second engineer arrived 2 days later, was friendly but drilled a new flue hole almost hitting the tails from the meter to the consumer unit. He got the boiler installed but didnt know how to do the wiring on it so left me with it on a long wire going to a plug and permanent live on the the switched boiler feed and an error message on the display, it was that this point I just finished the wiring myself (already fitted a tado) and read the manual enough to work out how to put the boiler in the correct mode to clear the error message. 3rd engineer came round the next day to fix the wiring but I'd already done it. Heatable also sent me a non wifi magnaclean at about a 3rd of the price and when I phoned up they claimed no one had it in stock, I checked and my local city plumbing (where the boiler had come from) had plenty so I went and picked it up and sent the bill to Heatable. Heatable were always pleasent to speak to on the phone but was a bit of a rigmoral for something that should have been a 1 day job. So nice to have all that Vicare info in Home Assistant though :)
Many thanks for making a really great video. I'm about to have installed a Vitodens 100-W B1HF 32kW System by a Viessmann approved company who have informed me that yes, it comes with a 10 year warranty provided that you have it serviced every year (£100) and if you miss a year that's the end of the 7 / 10 / 12 year cover. I looked it up on Viessmann's website and in the "Terms and Conditions" this is actually correct ! on the 100-w you get 7 years and then pay £210 or £270 to take the warranty to 10 or 12 years.
I have this boiler, and love it (connected through a nest thermostat -its opentherm compliant). Connect it through home assistant and you will get SOO much data you didn't know existed!
Cheers for this, decided to go with a 100-W and phoned them to directly attach notes to my order to ensure weather comp is setup. Will also watch the installer like a hawk to ensure its connected. I bought the NEST to go along with it.
Used heatable to replace my backwall boiler to exact same viesmann. Heatable gave fixed price and no hassle. Oh yes this boiler runs smooth and worth paying the price.
21:40 this reminds me of the kitchen in my grandparents' new house that they moved into in 2021 - it's a lot newer (2017) but there was a space where the cabinets were a bit lacking and they actually managed to find the original guy and got him to put extra matching cabinets in, I like things like that haha
Hi Cameron. Thanks for your in-depth videos explaining the reasons why you do certain things at a practical level. Looking forward to the networking videos at the new house. A quick question for you or anybody else who knows. From what I can tell the Viessmann Vitodens 050-W does not natively support opentherm but rather uses its own proprietary eBUS protocol. Did you manage to get the boiler working with an opentherm thermostat? I have installed a Viessmann Vitodens 111-W and was wondering whether the Google Nest v3 learning thermostat can directly control the boiler using the opentherm connections and fully modulate it etc. and receive the boiler's data for Nest's learning algorithms to process. It currently controlled by an on/off thermostat. I have a 5 core flex running between the boiler and the thermostat, and so the wiring is in place for a quick swap.
No worries, the Viessmann 050-W definitely supports OpenTherm, I set it up with a Nest in my Nest install video. You might be thinking of Valiant who have a proprietary protocol.
Also shout out from one OCDer to another, the people who did mine installed the cheapest fused spur in town which lasted five minutes before I replaced it with the same brand as everything else in the place.
I've got this boilers big brother the Vitodens 100, slightly older model than yours since it's been in for about 8 years. It's honestly been absolutely flawless up until April when it stopped producing hot water properly. Turns out the heat exchanger was totally clogged and had to be replaced. Had an interesting chat with the engineer that I got to fix it where he asked if we'd had a system flush and we had. He said it was a common problem that the rubber hoses on the inside of the boiler can degrade and the lining of those hoses can clog the heat exchanger. We ended out stripping the boiler including taking the hoses off and they were completely clogged too so they had to be flushed out too. Wasn't a cheap job at all so hopefully they've fixed it in later models, but it's something to look out for when its being serviced. Just get the engineer to check the hoses and see if they're still 'rubbery' if that makes sense, mine sounded and felt like they were full of gravel.
Yeah, that was a known issue from when they switched to rubber hoses. Thankfully they identified the problem and have moved back to copper pipes on the newer boilers.
@@camerongray1515 Ah thats good news, shame they didn't properly acknowledge the issue but at least its reverted back on newer models. I'd definitely replace mine with a new Viessman if I had to though, apart from the hoses it's been fantastic.
Sounds like you have the earlier model WB1C with the rubber flow and return hoses they were actually quite easy to remove and clean and refit they do not actually degrade but just collect the dirt from the system you can tell when you squeeze hoses as you say it feels like it’s full of gravel, As an engineer I can remove clean the hoses and refit them within two hours it should not be an expensive job also the heat exchanger for the hot water can be simply flushed out all pressure washed I haven’t replaced one as of yet
Get in - over an hour of “rambling” - a nice bottle of Rioja on standby - I’ve clicked like before I’ve even watched - keep up the excellent work. I have absolutely no intention of changing my Vaillant boiler, but looking forward to the video anyway.
We had pit boiler changed 2 or 3 years ago now. But we just had the gas engineer round the corner do it as he has serviced it anyway five years. His family and a couple of employees do it all. Much more trustworthy I find. We didn't get a smart one though as we don't have a thermostat in the hallway anyway. It's just more hassle and cost to us to make it all smart. But it would be cool to do and have those motorised valves on the radiators so I could use an app to control them.
just watching your video as i,m thinking of getting a weissmann boiler , the 1 gang squishy box that you are referring to is a pvc box , they do come in 2 versions square edged and rounded , i get your ocd , i,m an electrician and you seem very clued up on your wiring well done .
ooh - separated HW and heating gas consumption. Thats a nice one. I do have smart gas meter but I wanted a way to separate out usage to compare HW and heating which it doesn’t do. Thats really tempting. other boiler on my shortlist is the worcester-Bosch 4000 30kw. I do have tado which annoying doesn’t do opentherm in the UK but I’m hoping to get the extension kit to enable opentherm.
Thanks for the very useful video! 'Just a side note as of November 2023. Heatable are sending out Magnaclean Micro 2 filters, not the Pro 3 shown in this video. Their website and your order still show a picture of a Pro 3, and as such, I have just had a conversation with them and they are replacing the Micro 2 with a Pro 3 (worth £100 more than the Micro 2).
Hi, nice video. Great job however I need some further advice if you can spare few minutes answering the below. I have exactly the same Ideal Isar He35 boiler that needs to go and would like to get this exact Viessmann 050-W boiler. Trying to quote for one I have hit a snag and it is due to my flat being on the 2nd floor of a building. Heatable refused to quote me as, according to them, the external access is required to install flue. Any chance you could share what floor is your flat on, and if it is on the 2nd floor or above, what flue was used? Some other boiler installers also claim that without access they will not be able to supply me with Viessmann however I suspected that they simply might have some sort of deal with Worcester Bosch or Baxi as quite a lot of them trying to convince me to install WB Greenstar 4000. Cheers
Interesting, I'm ground floor so access wasn't an issue. I'm not an expert, but it looks like Baxi (and maybe Worcester Bosch) offer special flue kits that can be installed and sealed correctly purely from inside which is why I imagine installers are specifically offering those. Looks like Viessmann don't offer such a flue so they'd need access externally to fit and seal it.
I considered the wiser system however I didn't really need the individual zone control so it wasn't necessarily worth the extra cost for me, for larger properties it does seem like a good option.
Very true. Their opinion is worth listening to, a good installer doesn't want their name marred by a bad product. Sadly most people get caught up with the marketing guff when they are thinking about getting the job done and then they think the fitter is tyring it on when the recommend something else.
I'm a bit late to the party but I have a question on the 050. When it was first installed it would ramp up really quickly to heat the radiators, however the 'engineer' who recently completed the first service has left it in a lower state of tune where it cycles at a much lower rate initially so the radiators take longer to heat up. D'you know how to return it to the original 'ramp up' setting?
They're from the MK Dimensions line and aren't too outrageously priced when compared to things like their Edge and Aspect line which are extortionate! It's a slightly weird system to order as they come in two parts - you order the "functional module" in either black or white which is the actual socket/switch then you order the front plate separately in the finish you want. The catalogue here details all of the products and their respective part numbers: buildings.honeywell.com/content/dam/hbtbt/en/documents/downloads/MKDimensions_Brochure_UKMK432-0721-EN_FINAL.pdf. You'll notice the part numbers for the metal front plates have a asterisk on the end, you either replace with with "B" or "W" depending on if you want the trim to be black or white, you'd usually match this to the colour of functional module that you chose.
@@camerongray1515 awesome, will look into it. thanks so much for the info. I'll be moving from oil to gas house soon so was interested in this video.. Also I have a tado I'd be taking with me - I checked if my UK tado would work with opentherm boiler but looks like I need an EU extension box, the UK one I have wont have the bus connectors and only supports legacy relay on/off :( Do really like tado system so will prob hunt out the right ext box.
Yeah, the Tado OpenTherm thing is really annoying. I think it's because some EU countries (Netherlands I think) require OpenTherm now. Even more infuriatingly, companies like Valiant don't offer OpenTherm boilers and instead use their proprietary eBUS protocol. Except they do sell a module to provide OpenTherm, but only in the Netherlands! They apparently claim that using this module in a UK boiler will invalidate the warranty. This is the exact reason I immediately ruled out any Valiant boilers from my shortlist.
@@camerongray1515 The Wireless Receiver box I fitted in my UK flat a couple of years back does have OpenTherm terminals and the tado "Manual for Professional Installers - For the Starter Kit - Wireless Smart Thermostat V3+" shows how to hook it up and configure it in the initial setup. I am using the digital bus to connect to my Worcester Bosh Greenstar 30CDi, but that connects to the same two "digital bus" terminals in the Wireless Receiver box - it's just a config setting in tado setup to select OT or one of the various digital bus standard used by the boiler manufacturers. I'm very pleased with tado, using TRVs and a few wireless thermostats in the rooms, along with the schedules in the app provides full zonal control and remote (including out of home) control without any special plumbing or wiring.
Interesting, I think previously Tado did offer OpenTherm on their Expansion box and I think their wired thermostat may support it but their current wireless option doesn't unfortunately. Tado does look like a good option but I'm still figuring things out around it, I'm not a huge fan of the fact that they don't really offer any official API documentation.
How have you found this system since you had it installed? I was looking at the same system as you but with tado as they also do the room zoning (seems to be very useful if you are working from home + modulation so it keeps the usage down).
Just had my one changed went for Worcester Bosch 25kw, £1400, all in local heating engineer using for the passed 12 years, the boiler wasn't band new only 6 months old,
Does the app work outside your home wifi environment ? Just trying to understand if manual ON/OFF could be done remotely ? without a thermostat and reciever
How is the boiler holding up? Im currently at a crossroads and cant decide between a Worcestor Bosch or Viessman! Both reputable and have their pros and cons. I'd welcome to hear from anyones experiences with either.
Excellent video thank you for uploading this invaluable information for us and a good boiler choice too I think you should now do a follow-up video after having used it during the cold spell and tell us what you think and your thoughts on it? ?? That will make another excellent video
Thank you for the video , can I ask , when your boiler starts up does it make a racket rather like a plane getting ready to take off , I dont know if this is normal amd before I ask the company who will no doubt say it is I thought I'd ask you . Thanks
It definitely makes noise and ramps up since it'll initially run the burner at high power to get everything up to temperature quickly before settling down. It it's particularly loud or anything though.
Just had my Vitodens 100 installed through boiler central today. Interestingly enough I mentioned OpenTherm to my fitter also and similar to you he did not know what that was (I'm also based up in Scotland). A bit of time pouring through the wiring diagrams on the Nest and boiler manuals (and checking your videos again!) and it's all set up successfully now. With both our experiences coinciding I wonder how many OpenTherm ready boilers are actually just not connected up in that way?
Yeah, it seems ridiculously common, think mine is the only boiler I've actually seen connected up for OpenTherm in person which is absolutely ridiculous! As far as I'm aware, the BoilerPlus regulations that I mentioned don't apply in Scotland so it may be a lack of education/reluctance to try new things up here but it's infuriating given the clear benefits of OpenTherm. I've noticed huge benefits from it - my flat heats up super quickly but once it's at temperature I barely notice when the boiler turns on to top up the heat, whereas previously I could easily notice the temperature fluctuations throughout the day.
@@camerongray1515 Totally agree there. The one thing I would say about the experience though was that there was no ego and a genuine response to learn. Myself and the installer looked through the installation manual and worked through it and got it to work. I could very well have imagined it going the other way where there would have been a refusal try another way to work through it and we would have both come away unhappy as I would not have accepted the job that was completed.
That's good, I was pleasantly surprised with my engineer as well - when he walked into me being nosey looking at what he was doing while he'd been out at the van he was happy to show me around and talk through what he was doin. He was also no way offended by me asking about OpenTherm and when I asked him if he could fit the flex for OpenTherm so that I could replace the thermostat later he was happy to do it but also had no issue with the idea of me taking the front off the boiler to do it myself (even showing me how to do it). A far cry from what I expected which would have been "I'm the mighty gas engineer, you lowly member of the public shouldn't even look at the boiler, let alone change a thermostat yourself"
@@camerongray1515 Great, in the weeds on this conversation but to add to your video there was no "connector" on my 100 boiler on the switched contacts. To wire for OpenTherm we just had to connect directly to the OpenTherm contacts on the boiler to the Nest, no other changes were made. The only thing I have found with my Nest (I previously had a 2nd gen Nest) is that the app now has an additional circle for hot water control. Where as the thermostat control changes to orange when the heating goes on (and the boiler fires) the hot water control is always showing as orange and on. I just need to get used to it as I think it indicates the temperature and not that the boiler is always firing and heating water. I don't know if you see the same on yours?
Can't wait for you to get a cheap thermostat, put Tasmota on it after replacing the microcontroller that should be pin compatible but you end up needing to make an adapter for it to shift the pins around, all so you can use Node-RED to change the temperature with your TV remote!
Haha, unfortunately I'm probably going to need to go for an off the shelf product, likely something like a Nest. While I'd love to have something totally locally hosted, I'd have to compromise on the boiler modulation logic that products like Nest will provide. I'd still integrate it with Node-RED although it'll mostly just be for automated home/away type stuff.
Why are contractors morning people ..... :D The guy came to fix my fridge yesterday and turned up at 7:15 !!!! I still had the towel round me from the shower!
Hi, thanks very much for this video. I went through all this about 10 years ago now and interesting to see how things have changed. Particularly interested in the control system though and OpenTherm. Have you found any good multizone systems based on smart TRVs? I have one I built about 10 years ago out of eq3 MAX valves and an open source smart home controller. It's great although the valves have been discontinued so looking at a modern equivalent ideally using OpenTherm somehow but there doesn't seem much out there. Nest etc is all very well but fundamentally flawed in my opinion because it can only control the bolier rather than the individual rads. Would love to hear your thoughts
There are a couple of options that would let you use OpenTherm with smart TRVs - It turns out that Tado does seem to support OpenTherm although only on their wired thermostat where you'd need to extend the OpenTherm connection to wherever you want the thermostat to be, the wireless models with a separate receiver doesn't support OpenTherm in the UK. Systems such as Drayton Wiser and Honeywell Evohome also allow the use of smart TRVs with OpenTherm. For me I've been in two minds over it - I'd be interested to see how beneficial smart TRVs actually are from an energy saving perspective. For me I don't have a huge property so all of the rooms are in use - the most benefit I'd really get would be to stop heating the bedroom during the day so that it's cooler in the evenings and I'd need to get much better at keeping internal doors closed. The internal walls also aren't insulated (often there isn't insulation between floors in a house as well) so you're still going to end up losing heat into other rooms throughout the day from this. There will definitely be some energy savings if there's rooms that you never use, but I don't think it would really be enough of a saving to justify the cost for my size of property (although I'm willing to be proven wrong). My thinking for Nest is that with OpenTherm, you need the Thermostat to be good at handling load compensation which Nest is well known for doing whereas with those other systems, they don't have as much of a proven track record with this, especially with the additional complexity of adding in multiple rooms at different temperatures while optimising the flow temperature. The Drayton Wiser system for example was launched with OpenTherm support but this only operated as on/off control until an update in 2019 - I just don't want to risk getting a system where the load compensation is a bit of an afterthought. Although admittedly, since I'd be producing a video of installing whichever system I go for, I suspect Nest would have a more universal appeal than a lesser-known system which is why I'm leaning towards it (although still not set on Nest for sure yet). I've also considered potentially doing something a bit DIY where I have generic smart TRVs in the bedroom and en-suite and simply close and open them on a timer, then just have the nest operate as normal. This would give me 99% of the benefit of going for a full on smart TRV system since realistically my only use case would be not heating the bedroom once I'm out of bed.
@@camerongray1515 Thanks for this - interesting, and understand where you are coming from. My house is a reasonable size and quite tall because it's a terrace, and so I do only really want the bedrooms heated for an hour or so in the morning. However if I do for some reason want to heat them at another time it's great to be able to dial up the temp in any given room and it immediately calls the boiler for heat. I think as you say if you want the load compensation to work well you need to keep the system simple. It is interesting to me that after all this time we don't really have a definitive solution to this. Maybe it's a uniquely British thing, in the US they seem to use more central HVAC plants and there is very little control in each room bar a mechanical vent. I did some calculations when I installed my system and I'm sure it saved gas and money but it's so long ago now any savings I made are now taken for granted! Thanks for the all the videos, will look forward to seeing where you go next
If you’re looking into Nest, I got the Nest E - they’re great! The heat link unit is also much nicer looking if it’s on show, and the thermostat is a desktop type and looks very sleek on a shelf. Perfect for combi boilers! Also cheaper! :)
The Nest E does look like a nice product, especially for DIY install where you just want to replace an existing wired programmer on the wall without needing to get into the wiring at the boiler since you can easily leave the heat link on show. For me I'd probably just go for the full on Nest since I actually enjoy fiddling about with the wiring so I'd have the heat link next to the boiler. I'd then be able to reuse the 3 core and earth cable to the hallway to power the nest thermostat.
Thanks for a really informative video. Is the Nest voucher code still valid though? I've just tried and it says it has expired, though it accepted the £50 code. Wasn't sure if I needed a smart thermostat but a free one would seal the deal!
The Nest discount code originally expired at the start of the month (and I forgot to remove it) - I've just spoken to Heatable and I'm pleased to say that they've extended it "into November" so it should work for you now 🙂
@@camerongray1515 Brilliant! The very nice man on the Heatable live chat allowed me to use your code this afternoon, and the installation is booked for Monday. All a very positive experience so far 😃Time to watch your Nest video now to pick up some usage tips.
A combi will heat hot water on demand so you don't need to set up any sort of schedule for hot water. You can adjust the hot water temperature on the boiler, generally lower temperatures will use less energy so you just need to see how low you can set it while still getting hot enough water from taps and shower and where the shower has enough pressure (if you set it too low your shower may not mix in much cold water and therefore the flow might be reduced). Personally I have my hot water temperature set to 55c. For heating you will set a timer/thermostat and can also change the temperature of the water in the heating system on the boiler. Generally speaking a lower heating water temperature will be more efficient however if you set it too low you may find that rooms either never reach the desired temperature or they take too long to heat up. Again it's just a case of playing with different values and seeing how you find it. 50c is probably a good starting point then adjust as you see fit.
The next thing you need to get is a RCBO CU. If you want a recommendation for someone in Edinburgh let me know! Changed mine over last year to a Fusebox setup and was about £500.
It's something I've been considering but more of a "nice to have" rather than something I need urgently - the current board is still serviceable, albeit not super neat. If I was definitely going to be staying here for another 5-10 years then I'd probably do it but I can't really say that for sure. Realistically the boiler would have needed to be changed anyway if I were to sell in the future whereas the CU is unlikely to be an issue. I suppose I just have a general dislike of having to get contractors in to do anything - probably why I put off getting the new boiler for almost 5 years!
Them ideal isar boilers is what gave ideal a bad name my mam had one and it was terrible constant breakdowns ideal is spot on now my friend has a ideal logic and its been fine for years I'm a baxi man tbh had a baxi back boiler for years and never let me down i upgraded to a baxi 830 not long ago and its been ok for now
Man I wish you'd done this video when I had mine changed in 2014 🙂. The front off the boiler thing is annoying, I eventually discovered whoever was last in mine here hadn't even done the screws up properly.
It's connected to Vicare if that's what you mean but this was something I set up myself so it's not connected to anything by the installer. I just have this so that I can pull stats from the boiler such as the gas consumption into my own database using Home Assistant.
I looked into it but could never quite get my head around it. I ended up just going for a Nest connected up over OpenTherm to give modulating load compensation control. I also feel this potentially fits my needs better than weather compensation as my requirements for heating are often quite sporadic - I am away from home quite a lot of the time. So with load compensation I can heat the flat up quickly if it's really cold after being away for some time with the heating off but then it can modulate the boiler down to a lower level when the rooms are close to the set temperature.
Presumably no scope to fit weather compensation? Viessmann’s weather compensation, even the basic version is very highly regarded. Not to be too critical with the heating engineer as it looks like a good install, but they should have been aware of Opentherm as it has been around in various guises since 1996, and particularly in the middle of a gas crisis should not be fitting on-off controls.
The boiler does support weather compensation so I'd be able to add it by connecting an outdoor temperature sensor. I saw the connections for it when he had the boiler open (Officially need to get someone in to connect it. Although if the front was ever to accidentally fall off the boiler, it wouldn't be too hard to add myself 😉). Only thing I'd maybe need to think about is that the wall that the boiler is next to gets direct sunlight for a lot of the day so I'm not sure if this could cause issues with the reading that the sensor would get.
@@camerongray1515 🤔 If you haven’t got somewhere to shade the sensor, or a north/north-east/north-west wall I’d probably stick with OpenTherm. Having had both though (Nest OpenTherm with an Intergas boiler and weather compensation with an Ideal Logic), I’d probably choose weather compensation as I think the energy savings are higher, but both provide improved comfort and steady temperatures, at least once you get your head round the fact that the radiators are unlikely to be piping hot.
Would like the ability to set my heating temp via an app. Just have a manual dial on my outside condensing oil boiler, I'll find out if I've adjusted it down too far come winter. :-) Like urban plumber and heat geeks channels. Summer definitely the best time to replace a boiler. Nest controls probably going to be most popular for a video?
That's my thinking around the controls, there's a few different options I've been looking at, some with nice open APIs.etc however as you said, Nest is likely to do very well as a video, my Hive install video still gets really good views over winter! Then with the fact I'm currently wired up for on/off control, I could go into proper detail explaining the difference between OpenTherm and On/Off control and show people how to install it both ways!
I did a lot of thinking after I went the viessman / Nest route. I would now elect for individual room control over a big bang overall solution like nest, using tado smart rad controls. A lot more control, a lot more efficient too
This is still a consideration as individual room control sounds like a good idea in principle although realistically I don't have that big a place so not sure how essential it is. The most I could really do is run the kitchen at a lower temperature and not heat the bedroom during the day, although this would also require me to change my behaviour as I tend to leave internal doors open. I likely wouldn't go for Tado due to the lack of OpenTherm support without importing an EU receiver (although they do mention OpenTherm on the wired thermostat's product page so I'd need to do more research into this). Something like Drayton Wiser could be an option although not sure if it'll be worth the additional cost and likely a less successful video.
I've had a Viessmann 200W Weather Compensation Combination Boiler 13 years old, after 13 years new flow switch and new outside temperature monitor, just had burner spark probe and flame out probe, burner door gasket, I'm going to fit low energy Grundfoss pump, after I give the system a flush, then fit a Internet WiFi unit in February, So 13 years old quite good, only regular service by Viessmann every year, i buy parts from Viessmann Direct now part of Viessmann, its handy to have parts available so engineer doesn't have to make many call outs some parts come from Germany take 10 day's,
Another really interesting video 😀 I assume when you setup the new thermostat you will go with something that works with your Node-RED setup? Also, that app looks really interesting but it would be great to extract the data locally instead! Perhaps you could put it on your wall mounted touchscreen somehow?
I just tried the HomeAssistant integration and I couldn't really see much information, in particular related to the gas consumption. That said, I never seem to be able to get my head around HomeAssistant - it just doesn't seem to match the way my brain works. I'll maybe give it a go again or alternatively I should be able to build something in Node-RED as the API seems pretty clearly documented. As for a new thermostat, I don't know if I'll necessarily be able to go fully locally hosted since most decent OpenTherm options are cloud based and while I could build something there's no way I'd be able to do proper load compensation to the same level as a proper heating controls company. I suspect I'll end up with something cloud based but then I'd at least have a couple of API calls to do simple things like turn the heating on/off from within Node-RED and maybe to control temperatures.
@@camerongray1515 Was it the ViCare integration you tried? Must have been, it's the only one! I think from memory I had a bit of a mare getting this to work and needed API Keys, authentication etc. It works well now, and can fully visualise when it's modulating, etc. Probably too much data tbh I have the E3_Vitodens_100_BHC_0421 Ref Gas consumption, there are many sensors monitoring heating and hot water consumption, current day/month/year etc (sensor.vicare_hot_water_gas_consumption_current_day, sensor.vicare_hot_water_gas_consumption_last_seven_days) Agree, 'home assistant' is a nightmare from a usability perspective - it's a massive learning curve. Temperature / Heating controls are however easy,.. Node-Red is a godsend for this!
Been able to get it working now, my home assistant instance was out of date and for some reason this meant it was only showing a couple of entities from the vicare integration, after updating it it's now showing everything including the consumption data - going to be interesting to play about with this now!
You'd really just need to find the source of the leak to be honest, maybe look at ceilings for any weird staining that could indicate a leak above the ceiling although if the leak is below your ground floor then you're probably going go either need to start lifting floors or get in a specialist leak tracing company. Only other thing I can think of is check all of the connections on your radiator including the bleed valve and the nut on the opposite side from the bleed valve and give them a bit of a tighten - with heating leaks in particular, water can often evaporate from the hot fittings before it falls to the ground so a radiator can be leaking without ever leaving a trace on the floor below it.
Being a "competent person" you are allowed to remove the case from your own boiler in your house to access the electrics. You have to be Gas Safe to work on gas appliances in other people's properties. Just follow the boilers manufacturers instructions and you'll be fine.
The last time we had a boiler fitted, a dedicated electrician came and resolved the electrical work later on in the day. Think it's a bit wrong expecting the gas engineer to do it.
I suppose it depends on the amount of work required, if a new circuit was required for example then they should absolutely get an electrician in, but for something simple then IMO it's something they should be able to do themselves safely, otherwise to do something simple like replace a faulty motorised valve or pump you're going to need both an electrician and a plumber when the actual electrical work involved is basically just swapping over some wires. I'd view it the same as any joinery work being required - for simple stuff like cutting a bit out of a cupboard, then the installer should be able to do it (as they did here) however if the work required a huge amount of work to box a new boiler in or required alterations to a stud wall, I'd expect them to get a joiner in.
I didn't say that, I said that in the same way that a heating engineer should be able to do basic control wiring, they should be able to do basic joinery work themselves but if more advanced work was required then I'd expect them to get a joiner in. I have no issue with getting specialists in if required or if it is outside of someone's comfort zone, but sometimes I feel like trades silo themselves to ridiculous levels - a friend of mine recently had a plumbing company refuse to fix a leak because they'd have had to cut into a ceiling to access pipework.
I recently had a Ideal Vogue 32 MAX installed. Wanted my existing Nest Learning thermostat (3rd gen) set up to work with my new boiler. Electrician didn't have clue what he was doing. Connected the Nest OT connections up to the 240v inputs in the boiler. Thankfully no damage done to the Nest, but I had to expain to him that there are low voltage OT connections in the boiler, he didn't even know they were there. 😲 It's all fine now, with Weather Compenstation also installed, will see how that works out when the weather takes a dip.
Ouch! Good on Nest for presumably designing the heat link to be able to deal with such idiocy! This is why I tend to always do things myself - I find it too hard to trust contractors not to do things like this, I find it crazy that DIYers are often more up to date with modern standards than people who should be experts in it.
@@camerongray1515 I could not agree more Cameron. When it became clear that he had no experience with OT I politely suggested that "Google is his friend" so he could look it up on his phone, but nope! Could not be bothered. Shocking!! Most annoying. Also, heating engineer had no idea what Boiler Plus was, though to be fair, this new standard will be required for compliance only in England, A date has not yet been set to Bring Boiler Plus standard to Scotland
@@camerongray1515 Oh, and I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Electrician connected the two OT wires from the heat link into the swithiched live inputs for CH and DHW, so no 240v was passed back to the Nest. I think that would have blown the Nest to bits. I've been inside my Nest Heatlink, it does not have protection against idiocy, I just got lucky
That would make a bit more sense if boiler plus isn't a thing in Scotland yet since there's probably no rush to install OpenTherm controls since people tend to never move unless they're basically forced to but I still find it crazy that you can have a job and be totally oblivious to the changing landscape of your industry. I come from a technology background and I'm terrified of getting left behind if I don't keep up to date with things!
@@camerongray1515 Indeed!! My installer is a nice guy from the same well-to-do housing estate as me, but when I mentioned Boiler Plus to him he just said "ah!! regs, not my thing, I let the office deal with all that sort of thing" I mean... WTF! right!!
Had mine installed 3 days ago and asked for it to be wired up for open therm when i found out that the engineer was going to wire up for on/off. Now i find that you can not turn of the preheat function which seems counter productive. Does anyone know if there is a solution for this?
I made a video installing Nest for OpenTherm on mine and found the same issue. With Nest I worked out that setting the Nest to think that it was connected to a System Boiler rather than a Combi worked to disable preheat: ua-cam.com/video/gZcy0sruFfA/v-deo.html. If you're using a different type of control then you'd need to look into your control settings to see if you can do similar. Equally, I'm not sure how much gas the preheat necessarily uses so it may also be worth setting up the ViCare app and look at the gas consumption for a day when you didn't use any hot water or heating to see how much the preheat actually uses - I keep meaning to re-enable preheat while I go away for a couple of days to check this out of curiosity.
one thing i can tell right away is that that boiler would probly not have been enough for me. cuz i like thaking quite long warm showers idk how many litres that thing is but im guessing its not to much, unless ur using this for room heating only then it would probly be enough
It's a "combi" boiler so doesn't store water - it heats it on demand. With this one being a 30kW model it should be more than enough for a powerful shower, I checked mine this morning and while it was feeding a shower at a pretty high flow rate and decent temperature it was only running at round 40% so should be more than enough for a hot shower, even in winter when the water coming into the boiler is cold,
This is amazing - thank you for the information. I will definitely look at this way of doing this. Thought a local installer was the only way to do it The only problem, I have is that I don't trust/like Google .. I'd want to use Tado - but that sounds like a bad idea from what you say. No way google though .. :(
It was definitely a lot more convenient than faffing around with local installers. As for Tado, it looks like the Tado wired thermostat might support OpenTherm but it'll require a cable between the boiler and the thermostat, the wireless one doesn't. There are also other options that support OpenTherm but aren't Google, namely Drayton Wiser and Honeywell Evohome
@@camerongray1515 oh thanks! I’m not as good as you with the wiring (I have a PhD in physics and should know! Which makes it all the more annoying. ) so I’d be really stuck without seeing this. Thank you. You’ve saved me a load of faffing about! [I think this is my first comment on your channel I’ve been subscribed for years now, and I’ve always loved the content you put on - thanks!]
talk about overselling lol!! I can show you three installs done by Heatable that are worser than worse! And for the record it’s more likely for a larger company to fold over a smaller independent that provides a far better quality of install.
I'm only providing my experience, I could equally show a tonne of dreadful installs by non-heatable companies, both big and small. Ultimately there is always a risk no matter what company you go for. What I liked here was that heatable review the job so it's not left to the installer to mark their own homework. In my case, the installer (who I equally could have hired as an independent contractor) failed to install the plume management kit which turned out to be required by viessmann's instructions due to the proximity to an internal corner. This was picked up by heatable when they reviewed the job and they sent the installer back to rectify the issue. Had I hired the contractor independently, I'd have been none the wiser about the lack of plume management kit and would probably only have found out if it caused an issue at a future service or warranty claim. Heatable ultimately use independent contractors, they just provide an extra layer of oversight and support on top. And in terms of which is more likely to fail, your claim has a big "citation needed" over it, my logic is that a small company with one person can easily shut down and reopen under a different name to get away from legal action, much harder to do if you're a large company.
You are so wrong in saying that a local Gas engineer would mess up the installation, it is proven that the big nationwide boiler installation company has the most horror installs , as local company we have to fix shit after big companies like IHeat , Heatable , Glowgreen , Boxt . I can guarantee that a local gas engineer has more reputation to protect that this subcontractors working for the big boys .
At no point did I say that "a local gas engineer will mess up the installation." Realistically there are benefits to both options. My logic here was that if I were to have had an issue, my contract legally speaking would have been with Heatable who are a much larger company vs a small company where the risk is that they fold and disappear. I was also able to pay on credit card to gain additional protection in the event of any issues. I'm in no doubt that you perform very good installs, but as a consumer it's extremely difficult to differentiate between a company I can trust and one I can't - my parents for example have always used a couple of very well known, long standing, well reviewed local companies yet when I installed a Hive thermostat for them, I came across some of the most dreadful wiring I've seen, amongst all other sorts of bodgery hidden away where my parents wouldn't have seen it. There is also admittedly a level of convenience - I just needed to get the boiler installed after putting it off for years and having very limited time to mess around getting quotes and hoping people would turn up. With this I literally booked it in a couple of days before, and it was all completed within a day. It also turned out that Heatable performed additional checks after the install was completed - at the time of installation the installer didn't install the plume management kit as the flue exit was far enough away from windows/air vents. What the installer hadn't considered was that it was too close to an internal corner to meet the manufacturer's instructions. Heatable spotted this during their final checks/sign-off of the install and sent the installer back to rectify and it and install the plume management kit, had I hired the installer directly, the plume management kit would have likely never been installed.
Regarding heatable absorbing costs of unexpected problems, i absolutely guarantee it will be the poor bastard throwing the boiler at the wall who has to absorb the costs, not heatable.
I think it's a bit of both - Heatable pay the installer a fixed fee for the install (around £400 for a combi swap if I remember correctly) but barring a few sundries, heatable provide the parts that end up being required. So sure for the installer, some jobs will be a bit more time consuming but equally others will be relatively quick. From a customer perspective it makes things a lot more predictable. I actually now have a decent example from this job of where heatable came in invaluable. When the installer fitted it, he didn't install a plume kit. After I published this video, Heatable inspected the install photos (or at least I presume this is what happened) and determined that a plume kit should have been installed as the flue was within 300mm of an internal corner which is against Viessmann's instructions. Heatable supplied a plume kit and sent the installer back to fit it. This plume kit costs around £80 but didn't cost me any extra. Additionally, as far as I can tell, it was Heatable that flagged up the lack of plume kit, had I gone directly with the installer, I probably still wouldn't have a compliant install and would be none the wiser until I end up having issues with Viessmann's warranty in the future as it wasn't installed in line with their instructions.
A small local installer is always better than some giant faceless company. Your local guy will care about their reputation and will be trading on word of mouth. The bigger company don't care. You're just a number. If it goes wrong you'll moan for a bit, maybe leave a bad review and it'll be swallowed up by all the others. You have no idea how good the installer is before they turn up, you only know how good the sales team are. Glad it went well for you though
That's very fair, my fear was that I've seen plenty dreadful work from local installers, for example, my parents had used a reputable local installer to replace some motorised valves. I ended up later installing a new thermostat for them and found the standard of the wiring that had been left behind was shocking (ua-cam.com/video/9L2kKI7e0GE/v-deo.html ) yet my parents had no idea since it was buried under the floor so they would have happily recommended the company. My logic with going through Heatable was that if there was a problem with the installer, I'd at least have a company to go to about it rather than it just being me against a single installer, Heatable could then send a different installer to rectify issues. It also allowed me to pay by credit card which offers section 75 protection whereas a lot of local installers would want paid by cash/bank transfer which offers no protection.
@@camerongray1515 You used a large company and got bad wiring too. I would tell people to pay attention to the job being done regardless of who's doing it. A lot of local installers accept cards now. Since covid I'd actually say most do now. Your local installer will also use local suppliers and will spend the income locally rather than some company that buys in bulk direct from foreign manufacturers. Heatable have pallets of your boiler direct from Viessmann. They save on buying in equipment then match the prices local guys with more links in the chain charge and pocket the difference.
With the bad wiring, that was absolutely the case, however at least if I wasn't willing to fix it myself, I could have spoken to Heatable about it. In fact, it turned out that the installer hadn't installed the plume management kit which was actually required due to my flue being too close to an internal corner. This was only identified by Heatable when they reviewed the job photos that had been submitted and sent the installer back a couple of days later. Had I gone with the installer themselves then nobody would have picked up on the non-complaint installation until years later at a servicing/inspection/warranty claim where the cost of fixing it would likely have landed on me. As for keeping an eye on the contractor, I agree, however I was working from home at the time so was tied to my desk most of the day so couldn't be there for the whole process. Also since I was wanting to review the process as if I was a normal customer who probably knows nothing about heating systems, I didn't want to get too involved except for the final point when I needed the OpenTherm flex connected. Then when it comes to the supplier, the boiler and all parts came from Plumbase who delivered everything in the morning (and promptly crashed their van into a lamppost...) so while it's not a local independent merchant, it's not coming directly from Heatable. I suspect most local installers would buy from a similar place.
@@camerongray1515 The 300mm rule is gas regs not a manufacturer recommendation and the installer really should have known that so yes in this instance having someone review the job helped. I view the huge installers like amazon. You may get the same product but its at the cost of the local economy. I wouldn't use them if it was avoidable.
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UPDATE! A couple of days after my installation, the installer got back in touch saying that he needed to come back and fit a plume kit - As far as I can tell, Heatable had checked over the install and had determined that a plume kit did in fact need to be fitted as the flue was within 300mm of an internal corner which is not allowed based on Viessmann's instructions. While this does now mean I have a relatively unattractive plume kit, it does go to show the benefit of using a company like Heatable who will check over the install and make sure it complies. Had this not happened I'd have been none the wiser until potentially I needed to claim on the Viessmann warranty and could have had an issue because it wasn't installed in accordance with their instructions.
Hi, nice video.... the Discount codes seems expired. Would you be able to provide the new ones? thanks
I'm glad you had a better experience with Heatable than me, used them after seeing this video and wanting a Viessmann boiler, took a week and 3 heating engineers before the job was complete and it was meant to be a straight swap out. The first engineer took the old boiler off the wall and left at lunchtime on day 1 as the new boiler hadent arrived yet leaving the old boiler just dumped in my driveway (I didnt even know until I went out and saw it sitting there after he left), second engineer arrived 2 days later, was friendly but drilled a new flue hole almost hitting the tails from the meter to the consumer unit. He got the boiler installed but didnt know how to do the wiring on it so left me with it on a long wire going to a plug and permanent live on the the switched boiler feed and an error message on the display, it was that this point I just finished the wiring myself (already fitted a tado) and read the manual enough to work out how to put the boiler in the correct mode to clear the error message. 3rd engineer came round the next day to fix the wiring but I'd already done it. Heatable also sent me a non wifi magnaclean at about a 3rd of the price and when I phoned up they claimed no one had it in stock, I checked and my local city plumbing (where the boiler had come from) had plenty so I went and picked it up and sent the bill to Heatable. Heatable were always pleasent to speak to on the phone but was a bit of a rigmoral for something that should have been a 1 day job. So nice to have all that Vicare info in Home Assistant though :)
Many thanks for making a really great video.
I'm about to have installed a Vitodens 100-W B1HF 32kW System by a Viessmann approved company who have informed me that yes, it comes with a 10 year warranty provided that you have it serviced every year (£100) and if you miss a year that's the end of the 7 / 10 / 12 year cover.
I looked it up on Viessmann's website and in the "Terms and Conditions" this is actually correct !
on the 100-w you get 7 years and then pay £210 or £270 to take the warranty to 10 or 12 years.
I have this boiler, and love it (connected through a nest thermostat -its opentherm compliant). Connect it through home assistant and you will get SOO much data you didn't know existed!
does it adjust flow temperature as it approaches the desired temperature? I also have tado TRVs which I’m hoping can work alongside that independently
Cheers for this, decided to go with a 100-W and phoned them to directly attach notes to my order to ensure weather comp is setup. Will also watch the installer like a hawk to ensure its connected. I bought the NEST to go along with it.
I had a Viessmann Vitodens (different model) installed 8 years ago and it has never missed a beat since.
Excellent video. I’m having the same boiler and is being installed on Monday. Thank you so much for all the tips and advice.
Used heatable to replace my backwall boiler to exact same viesmann. Heatable gave fixed price and no hassle. Oh yes this boiler runs smooth and worth paying the price.
21:40 this reminds me of the kitchen in my grandparents' new house that they moved into in 2021 - it's a lot newer (2017) but there was a space where the cabinets were a bit lacking and they actually managed to find the original guy and got him to put extra matching cabinets in, I like things like that haha
Hi Cameron. Thanks for your in-depth videos explaining the reasons why you do certain things at a practical level. Looking forward to the networking videos at the new house.
A quick question for you or anybody else who knows.
From what I can tell the Viessmann Vitodens 050-W does not natively support opentherm but rather uses its own proprietary eBUS protocol. Did you manage to get the boiler working with an opentherm thermostat? I have installed a Viessmann Vitodens 111-W and was wondering whether the Google Nest v3 learning thermostat can directly control the boiler using the opentherm connections and fully modulate it etc. and receive the boiler's data for Nest's learning algorithms to process. It currently controlled by an on/off thermostat. I have a 5 core flex running between the boiler and the thermostat, and so the wiring is in place for a quick swap.
No worries, the Viessmann 050-W definitely supports OpenTherm, I set it up with a Nest in my Nest install video. You might be thinking of Valiant who have a proprietary protocol.
Also shout out from one OCDer to another, the people who did mine installed the cheapest fused spur in town which lasted five minutes before I replaced it with the same brand as everything else in the place.
I've got this boilers big brother the Vitodens 100, slightly older model than yours since it's been in for about 8 years. It's honestly been absolutely flawless up until April when it stopped producing hot water properly. Turns out the heat exchanger was totally clogged and had to be replaced. Had an interesting chat with the engineer that I got to fix it where he asked if we'd had a system flush and we had. He said it was a common problem that the rubber hoses on the inside of the boiler can degrade and the lining of those hoses can clog the heat exchanger. We ended out stripping the boiler including taking the hoses off and they were completely clogged too so they had to be flushed out too. Wasn't a cheap job at all so hopefully they've fixed it in later models, but it's something to look out for when its being serviced. Just get the engineer to check the hoses and see if they're still 'rubbery' if that makes sense, mine sounded and felt like they were full of gravel.
Yeah, that was a known issue from when they switched to rubber hoses. Thankfully they identified the problem and have moved back to copper pipes on the newer boilers.
@@camerongray1515 Ah thats good news, shame they didn't properly acknowledge the issue but at least its reverted back on newer models. I'd definitely replace mine with a new Viessman if I had to though, apart from the hoses it's been fantastic.
Sounds like you have the earlier model WB1C with the rubber flow and return hoses they were actually quite easy to remove and clean and refit they do not actually degrade but just collect the dirt from the system you can tell when you squeeze hoses as you say it feels like it’s full of gravel, As an engineer I can remove clean the hoses and refit them within two hours it should not be an expensive job also the heat exchanger for the hot water can be simply flushed out all pressure washed I haven’t replaced one as of yet
Thanks for the detailed report. Good to see your real world experience of Heatable and Viessmann.
Get in - over an hour of “rambling” - a nice bottle of Rioja on standby - I’ve clicked like before I’ve even watched - keep up the excellent work. I have absolutely no intention of changing my Vaillant boiler, but looking forward to the video anyway.
We had pit boiler changed 2 or 3 years ago now. But we just had the gas engineer round the corner do it as he has serviced it anyway five years. His family and a couple of employees do it all. Much more trustworthy I find.
We didn't get a smart one though as we don't have a thermostat in the hallway anyway. It's just more hassle and cost to us to make it all smart. But it would be cool to do and have those motorised valves on the radiators so I could use an app to control them.
just watching your video as i,m thinking of getting a weissmann boiler , the 1 gang squishy box that you are referring to is a pvc box , they do come in 2 versions square edged and rounded , i get your ocd , i,m an electrician and you seem very clued up on your wiring well done .
ooh - separated HW and heating gas consumption. Thats a nice one. I do have smart gas meter but I wanted a way to separate out usage to compare HW and heating which it doesn’t do. Thats really tempting. other boiler on my shortlist is the worcester-Bosch 4000 30kw. I do have tado which annoying doesn’t do opentherm in the UK but I’m hoping to get the extension kit to enable opentherm.
Thanks for the very useful video! 'Just a side note as of November 2023. Heatable are sending out Magnaclean Micro 2 filters, not the Pro 3 shown in this video. Their website and your order still show a picture of a Pro 3, and as such, I have just had a conversation with them and they are replacing the Micro 2 with a Pro 3 (worth £100 more than the Micro 2).
Hi, nice video. Great job however I need some further advice if you can spare few minutes answering the below.
I have exactly the same Ideal Isar He35 boiler that needs to go and would like to get this exact Viessmann 050-W boiler. Trying to quote for one I have hit a snag and it is due to my flat being on the 2nd floor of a building. Heatable refused to quote me as, according to them, the external access is required to install flue. Any chance you could share what floor is your flat on, and if it is on the 2nd floor or above, what flue was used? Some other boiler installers also claim that without access they will not be able to supply me with Viessmann however I suspected that they simply might have some sort of deal with Worcester Bosch or Baxi as quite a lot of them trying to convince me to install WB Greenstar 4000.
Cheers
Interesting, I'm ground floor so access wasn't an issue. I'm not an expert, but it looks like Baxi (and maybe Worcester Bosch) offer special flue kits that can be installed and sealed correctly purely from inside which is why I imagine installers are specifically offering those. Looks like Viessmann don't offer such a flue so they'd need access externally to fit and seal it.
Hi Cameron
Thanks for your great video.
Did you do a follow-up video on how to upgrade to OpenTherm please?
Excellent video, one of the best I have seen for a install review.
Great video Cameron. I'd love to see a follow-up video where you convert to OpenTherm.
What a great video!, thank you. I am looking at the 100w, have you considered the wiser opentherm system?
I considered the wiser system however I didn't really need the individual zone control so it wasn't necessarily worth the extra cost for me, for larger properties it does seem like a good option.
Most local gas fitters will fit whatever boiler you want. They will have a preference, but will fit what you want.
Very true. Their opinion is worth listening to, a good installer doesn't want their name marred by a bad product. Sadly most people get caught up with the marketing guff when they are thinking about getting the job done and then they think the fitter is tyring it on when the recommend something else.
I'm a bit late to the party but I have a question on the 050. When it was first installed it would ramp up really quickly to heat the radiators, however the 'engineer' who recently completed the first service has left it in a lower state of tune where it cycles at a much lower rate initially so the radiators take longer to heat up.
D'you know how to return it to the original 'ramp up' setting?
Can you control heating and hot water from the app? Or you have that separate thermostat they are selling? Bit confused I am.
Thank you for explaining open therm. big help. Frank in Ireland
Really like the sockets and spur, what kind are they? Had a quick look at mk ones online but couldn’t see same model
They're from the MK Dimensions line and aren't too outrageously priced when compared to things like their Edge and Aspect line which are extortionate! It's a slightly weird system to order as they come in two parts - you order the "functional module" in either black or white which is the actual socket/switch then you order the front plate separately in the finish you want. The catalogue here details all of the products and their respective part numbers: buildings.honeywell.com/content/dam/hbtbt/en/documents/downloads/MKDimensions_Brochure_UKMK432-0721-EN_FINAL.pdf. You'll notice the part numbers for the metal front plates have a asterisk on the end, you either replace with with "B" or "W" depending on if you want the trim to be black or white, you'd usually match this to the colour of functional module that you chose.
@@camerongray1515 awesome, will look into it. thanks so much for the info.
I'll be moving from oil to gas house soon so was interested in this video.. Also I have a tado I'd be taking with me - I checked if my UK tado would work with opentherm boiler but looks like I need an EU extension box, the UK one I have wont have the bus connectors and only supports legacy relay on/off :( Do really like tado system so will prob hunt out the right ext box.
Yeah, the Tado OpenTherm thing is really annoying. I think it's because some EU countries (Netherlands I think) require OpenTherm now. Even more infuriatingly, companies like Valiant don't offer OpenTherm boilers and instead use their proprietary eBUS protocol. Except they do sell a module to provide OpenTherm, but only in the Netherlands! They apparently claim that using this module in a UK boiler will invalidate the warranty. This is the exact reason I immediately ruled out any Valiant boilers from my shortlist.
@@camerongray1515 The Wireless Receiver box I fitted in my UK flat a couple of years back does have OpenTherm terminals and the tado "Manual for Professional Installers - For the Starter Kit - Wireless Smart Thermostat V3+" shows how to hook it up and configure it in the initial setup. I am using the digital bus to connect to my Worcester Bosh Greenstar 30CDi, but that connects to the same two "digital bus" terminals in the Wireless Receiver box - it's just a config setting in tado setup to select OT or one of the various digital bus standard used by the boiler manufacturers. I'm very pleased with tado, using TRVs and a few wireless thermostats in the rooms, along with the schedules in the app provides full zonal control and remote (including out of home) control without any special plumbing or wiring.
Interesting, I think previously Tado did offer OpenTherm on their Expansion box and I think their wired thermostat may support it but their current wireless option doesn't unfortunately. Tado does look like a good option but I'm still figuring things out around it, I'm not a huge fan of the fact that they don't really offer any official API documentation.
How have you found this system since you had it installed? I was looking at the same system as you but with tado as they also do the room zoning (seems to be very useful if you are working from home + modulation so it keeps the usage down).
Just had my one changed went for Worcester Bosch 25kw, £1400, all in local heating engineer using for the passed 12 years, the boiler wasn't band new only 6 months old,
Well here I am, sweating of my balls off in 30c heat, watching a 60min video on a boiler
Does the app work outside your home wifi environment ? Just trying to understand if manual ON/OFF could be done remotely ? without a thermostat and reciever
How is the boiler holding up? Im currently at a crossroads and cant decide between a Worcestor Bosch or Viessman! Both reputable and have their pros and cons.
I'd welcome to hear from anyones experiences with either.
Excellent video thank you for uploading this invaluable information for us and a good boiler choice too
I think you should now do a follow-up video after having used it during the cold spell and tell us what you think and your thoughts on it? ?? That will make another excellent video
Thank you for the video , can I ask , when your boiler starts up does it make a racket rather like a plane getting ready to take off , I dont know if this is normal amd before I ask the company who will no doubt say it is I thought I'd ask you . Thanks
It definitely makes noise and ramps up since it'll initially run the burner at high power to get everything up to temperature quickly before settling down. It it's particularly loud or anything though.
Just had my Vitodens 100 installed through boiler central today. Interestingly enough I mentioned OpenTherm to my fitter also and similar to you he did not know what that was (I'm also based up in Scotland). A bit of time pouring through the wiring diagrams on the Nest and boiler manuals (and checking your videos again!) and it's all set up successfully now. With both our experiences coinciding I wonder how many OpenTherm ready boilers are actually just not connected up in that way?
Yeah, it seems ridiculously common, think mine is the only boiler I've actually seen connected up for OpenTherm in person which is absolutely ridiculous! As far as I'm aware, the BoilerPlus regulations that I mentioned don't apply in Scotland so it may be a lack of education/reluctance to try new things up here but it's infuriating given the clear benefits of OpenTherm. I've noticed huge benefits from it - my flat heats up super quickly but once it's at temperature I barely notice when the boiler turns on to top up the heat, whereas previously I could easily notice the temperature fluctuations throughout the day.
@@camerongray1515 Totally agree there. The one thing I would say about the experience though was that there was no ego and a genuine response to learn. Myself and the installer looked through the installation manual and worked through it and got it to work. I could very well have imagined it going the other way where there would have been a refusal try another way to work through it and we would have both come away unhappy as I would not have accepted the job that was completed.
That's good, I was pleasantly surprised with my engineer as well - when he walked into me being nosey looking at what he was doing while he'd been out at the van he was happy to show me around and talk through what he was doin. He was also no way offended by me asking about OpenTherm and when I asked him if he could fit the flex for OpenTherm so that I could replace the thermostat later he was happy to do it but also had no issue with the idea of me taking the front off the boiler to do it myself (even showing me how to do it). A far cry from what I expected which would have been "I'm the mighty gas engineer, you lowly member of the public shouldn't even look at the boiler, let alone change a thermostat yourself"
@@camerongray1515 Great, in the weeds on this conversation but to add to your video there was no "connector" on my 100 boiler on the switched contacts. To wire for OpenTherm we just had to connect directly to the OpenTherm contacts on the boiler to the Nest, no other changes were made. The only thing I have found with my Nest (I previously had a 2nd gen Nest) is that the app now has an additional circle for hot water control. Where as the thermostat control changes to orange when the heating goes on (and the boiler fires) the hot water control is always showing as orange and on. I just need to get used to it as I think it indicates the temperature and not that the boiler is always firing and heating water. I don't know if you see the same on yours?
Can't wait for you to get a cheap thermostat, put Tasmota on it after replacing the microcontroller that should be pin compatible but you end up needing to make an adapter for it to shift the pins around, all so you can use Node-RED to change the temperature with your TV remote!
Haha, unfortunately I'm probably going to need to go for an off the shelf product, likely something like a Nest. While I'd love to have something totally locally hosted, I'd have to compromise on the boiler modulation logic that products like Nest will provide. I'd still integrate it with Node-RED although it'll mostly just be for automated home/away type stuff.
Why are contractors morning people ..... :D The guy came to fix my fridge yesterday and turned up at 7:15 !!!! I still had the towel round me from the shower!
At that point I'd probably still be asleep! I've been caught in the shower by delivery drivers more times than I'd like to admit!
Hi, thanks very much for this video. I went through all this about 10 years ago now and interesting to see how things have changed. Particularly interested in the control system though and OpenTherm. Have you found any good multizone systems based on smart TRVs? I have one I built about 10 years ago out of eq3 MAX valves and an open source smart home controller. It's great although the valves have been discontinued so looking at a modern equivalent ideally using OpenTherm somehow but there doesn't seem much out there. Nest etc is all very well but fundamentally flawed in my opinion because it can only control the bolier rather than the individual rads. Would love to hear your thoughts
There are a couple of options that would let you use OpenTherm with smart TRVs - It turns out that Tado does seem to support OpenTherm although only on their wired thermostat where you'd need to extend the OpenTherm connection to wherever you want the thermostat to be, the wireless models with a separate receiver doesn't support OpenTherm in the UK. Systems such as Drayton Wiser and Honeywell Evohome also allow the use of smart TRVs with OpenTherm.
For me I've been in two minds over it - I'd be interested to see how beneficial smart TRVs actually are from an energy saving perspective. For me I don't have a huge property so all of the rooms are in use - the most benefit I'd really get would be to stop heating the bedroom during the day so that it's cooler in the evenings and I'd need to get much better at keeping internal doors closed. The internal walls also aren't insulated (often there isn't insulation between floors in a house as well) so you're still going to end up losing heat into other rooms throughout the day from this. There will definitely be some energy savings if there's rooms that you never use, but I don't think it would really be enough of a saving to justify the cost for my size of property (although I'm willing to be proven wrong).
My thinking for Nest is that with OpenTherm, you need the Thermostat to be good at handling load compensation which Nest is well known for doing whereas with those other systems, they don't have as much of a proven track record with this, especially with the additional complexity of adding in multiple rooms at different temperatures while optimising the flow temperature. The Drayton Wiser system for example was launched with OpenTherm support but this only operated as on/off control until an update in 2019 - I just don't want to risk getting a system where the load compensation is a bit of an afterthought.
Although admittedly, since I'd be producing a video of installing whichever system I go for, I suspect Nest would have a more universal appeal than a lesser-known system which is why I'm leaning towards it (although still not set on Nest for sure yet). I've also considered potentially doing something a bit DIY where I have generic smart TRVs in the bedroom and en-suite and simply close and open them on a timer, then just have the nest operate as normal. This would give me 99% of the benefit of going for a full on smart TRV system since realistically my only use case would be not heating the bedroom once I'm out of bed.
@@camerongray1515 Thanks for this - interesting, and understand where you are coming from. My house is a reasonable size and quite tall because it's a terrace, and so I do only really want the bedrooms heated for an hour or so in the morning. However if I do for some reason want to heat them at another time it's great to be able to dial up the temp in any given room and it immediately calls the boiler for heat. I think as you say if you want the load compensation to work well you need to keep the system simple. It is interesting to me that after all this time we don't really have a definitive solution to this. Maybe it's a uniquely British thing, in the US they seem to use more central HVAC plants and there is very little control in each room bar a mechanical vent. I did some calculations when I installed my system and I'm sure it saved gas and money but it's so long ago now any savings I made are now taken for granted! Thanks for the all the videos, will look forward to seeing where you go next
If you’re looking into Nest, I got the Nest E - they’re great! The heat link unit is also much nicer looking if it’s on show, and the thermostat is a desktop type and looks very sleek on a shelf. Perfect for combi boilers! Also cheaper! :)
The Nest E does look like a nice product, especially for DIY install where you just want to replace an existing wired programmer on the wall without needing to get into the wiring at the boiler since you can easily leave the heat link on show. For me I'd probably just go for the full on Nest since I actually enjoy fiddling about with the wiring so I'd have the heat link next to the boiler. I'd then be able to reuse the 3 core and earth cable to the hallway to power the nest thermostat.
Thanks for a really informative video. Is the Nest voucher code still valid though? I've just tried and it says it has expired, though it accepted the £50 code. Wasn't sure if I needed a smart thermostat but a free one would seal the deal!
The Nest discount code originally expired at the start of the month (and I forgot to remove it) - I've just spoken to Heatable and I'm pleased to say that they've extended it "into November" so it should work for you now 🙂
@@camerongray1515 Brilliant! The very nice man on the Heatable live chat allowed me to use your code this afternoon, and the installation is booked for Monday. All a very positive experience so far 😃Time to watch your Nest video now to pick up some usage tips.
Damn I’ve missed the offer now!
i need help i'm now in Europe country the my problem i never used a combi in my life what is the right way to make it heat
and dont take alot of power
A combi will heat hot water on demand so you don't need to set up any sort of schedule for hot water. You can adjust the hot water temperature on the boiler, generally lower temperatures will use less energy so you just need to see how low you can set it while still getting hot enough water from taps and shower and where the shower has enough pressure (if you set it too low your shower may not mix in much cold water and therefore the flow might be reduced). Personally I have my hot water temperature set to 55c. For heating you will set a timer/thermostat and can also change the temperature of the water in the heating system on the boiler. Generally speaking a lower heating water temperature will be more efficient however if you set it too low you may find that rooms either never reach the desired temperature or they take too long to heat up. Again it's just a case of playing with different values and seeing how you find it. 50c is probably a good starting point then adjust as you see fit.
The next thing you need to get is a RCBO CU. If you want a recommendation for someone in Edinburgh let me know! Changed mine over last year to a Fusebox setup and was about £500.
It's something I've been considering but more of a "nice to have" rather than something I need urgently - the current board is still serviceable, albeit not super neat. If I was definitely going to be staying here for another 5-10 years then I'd probably do it but I can't really say that for sure. Realistically the boiler would have needed to be changed anyway if I were to sell in the future whereas the CU is unlikely to be an issue. I suppose I just have a general dislike of having to get contractors in to do anything - probably why I put off getting the new boiler for almost 5 years!
Them ideal isar boilers is what gave ideal a bad name my mam had one and it was terrible constant breakdowns ideal is spot on now my friend has a ideal logic and its been fine for years I'm a baxi man tbh had a baxi back boiler for years and never let me down i upgraded to a baxi 830 not long ago and its been ok for now
Man I wish you'd done this video when I had mine changed in 2014 🙂. The front off the boiler thing is annoying, I eventually discovered whoever was last in mine here hadn't even done the screws up properly.
Is your boiler connected to the Viessmann network ? so they can see how your boiler is working.
It's connected to Vicare if that's what you mean but this was something I set up myself so it's not connected to anything by the installer. I just have this so that I can pull stats from the boiler such as the gas consumption into my own database using Home Assistant.
Love these long videos, shame about that wiring but at least it's sorted. Thanks for sharing the experience :)
did you consider weather composition?
I looked into it but could never quite get my head around it. I ended up just going for a Nest connected up over OpenTherm to give modulating load compensation control. I also feel this potentially fits my needs better than weather compensation as my requirements for heating are often quite sporadic - I am away from home quite a lot of the time. So with load compensation I can heat the flat up quickly if it's really cold after being away for some time with the heating off but then it can modulate the boiler down to a lower level when the rooms are close to the set temperature.
Presumably no scope to fit weather compensation? Viessmann’s weather compensation, even the basic version is very highly regarded. Not to be too critical with the heating engineer as it looks like a good install, but they should have been aware of Opentherm as it has been around in various guises since 1996, and particularly in the middle of a gas crisis should not be fitting on-off controls.
The boiler does support weather compensation so I'd be able to add it by connecting an outdoor temperature sensor. I saw the connections for it when he had the boiler open (Officially need to get someone in to connect it. Although if the front was ever to accidentally fall off the boiler, it wouldn't be too hard to add myself 😉). Only thing I'd maybe need to think about is that the wall that the boiler is next to gets direct sunlight for a lot of the day so I'm not sure if this could cause issues with the reading that the sensor would get.
@@camerongray1515 🤔 If you haven’t got somewhere to shade the sensor, or a north/north-east/north-west wall I’d probably stick with OpenTherm. Having had both though (Nest OpenTherm with an Intergas boiler and weather compensation with an Ideal Logic), I’d probably choose weather compensation as I think the energy savings are higher, but both provide improved comfort and steady temperatures, at least once you get your head round the fact that the radiators are unlikely to be piping hot.
Would like the ability to set my heating temp via an app. Just have a manual dial on my outside condensing oil boiler, I'll find out if I've adjusted it down too far come winter. :-)
Like urban plumber and heat geeks channels. Summer definitely the best time to replace a boiler.
Nest controls probably going to be most popular for a video?
That's my thinking around the controls, there's a few different options I've been looking at, some with nice open APIs.etc however as you said, Nest is likely to do very well as a video, my Hive install video still gets really good views over winter! Then with the fact I'm currently wired up for on/off control, I could go into proper detail explaining the difference between OpenTherm and On/Off control and show people how to install it both ways!
I did a lot of thinking after I went the viessman / Nest route. I would now elect for individual room control over a big bang overall solution like nest, using tado smart rad controls. A lot more control, a lot more efficient too
This is still a consideration as individual room control sounds like a good idea in principle although realistically I don't have that big a place so not sure how essential it is. The most I could really do is run the kitchen at a lower temperature and not heat the bedroom during the day, although this would also require me to change my behaviour as I tend to leave internal doors open. I likely wouldn't go for Tado due to the lack of OpenTherm support without importing an EU receiver (although they do mention OpenTherm on the wired thermostat's product page so I'd need to do more research into this). Something like Drayton Wiser could be an option although not sure if it'll be worth the additional cost and likely a less successful video.
I've had a Viessmann 200W Weather Compensation Combination Boiler 13 years old, after 13 years new flow switch and new outside temperature monitor, just had burner spark probe and flame out probe, burner door gasket, I'm going to fit low energy Grundfoss pump, after I give the system a flush, then fit a Internet WiFi unit in February,
So 13 years old quite good, only regular service by Viessmann every year, i buy parts from Viessmann Direct now part of Viessmann, its handy to have parts available so engineer doesn't have to make many call outs some parts come from Germany take 10 day's,
an* internet
*days
Another really interesting video 😀
I assume when you setup the new thermostat you will go with something that works with your Node-RED setup? Also, that app looks really interesting but it would be great to extract the data locally instead! Perhaps you could put it on your wall mounted touchscreen somehow?
Home Assistant supports vitodens boilers. It's incredible the detail you get from this unit.
I just tried the HomeAssistant integration and I couldn't really see much information, in particular related to the gas consumption. That said, I never seem to be able to get my head around HomeAssistant - it just doesn't seem to match the way my brain works. I'll maybe give it a go again or alternatively I should be able to build something in Node-RED as the API seems pretty clearly documented. As for a new thermostat, I don't know if I'll necessarily be able to go fully locally hosted since most decent OpenTherm options are cloud based and while I could build something there's no way I'd be able to do proper load compensation to the same level as a proper heating controls company. I suspect I'll end up with something cloud based but then I'd at least have a couple of API calls to do simple things like turn the heating on/off from within Node-RED and maybe to control temperatures.
@@camerongray1515 Was it the ViCare integration you tried? Must have been, it's the only one! I think from memory I had a bit of a mare getting this to work and needed API Keys, authentication etc. It works well now, and can fully visualise when it's modulating, etc. Probably too much data tbh
I have the E3_Vitodens_100_BHC_0421
Ref Gas consumption, there are many sensors monitoring heating and hot water consumption, current day/month/year etc (sensor.vicare_hot_water_gas_consumption_current_day, sensor.vicare_hot_water_gas_consumption_last_seven_days)
Agree, 'home assistant' is a nightmare from a usability perspective - it's a massive learning curve. Temperature / Heating controls are however easy,.. Node-Red is a godsend for this!
Been able to get it working now, my home assistant instance was out of date and for some reason this meant it was only showing a couple of entities from the vicare integration, after updating it it's now showing everything including the consumption data - going to be interesting to play about with this now!
Maybe add a link to the Urban Plumbers video to the description.
Good idea, I've added them in now!
Any ideas how to fix small system leak? Preasure Goes down from 1.5 bar to 0.8 over 4 weeks and cant locate the leak :(
You'd really just need to find the source of the leak to be honest, maybe look at ceilings for any weird staining that could indicate a leak above the ceiling although if the leak is below your ground floor then you're probably going go either need to start lifting floors or get in a specialist leak tracing company. Only other thing I can think of is check all of the connections on your radiator including the bleed valve and the nut on the opposite side from the bleed valve and give them a bit of a tighten - with heating leaks in particular, water can often evaporate from the hot fittings before it falls to the ground so a radiator can be leaking without ever leaving a trace on the floor below it.
Being a "competent person" you are allowed to remove the case from your own boiler in your house to access the electrics. You have to be Gas Safe to work on gas appliances in other people's properties. Just follow the boilers manufacturers instructions and you'll be fine.
The last time we had a boiler fitted, a dedicated electrician came and resolved the electrical work later on in the day. Think it's a bit wrong expecting the gas engineer to do it.
I suppose it depends on the amount of work required, if a new circuit was required for example then they should absolutely get an electrician in, but for something simple then IMO it's something they should be able to do themselves safely, otherwise to do something simple like replace a faulty motorised valve or pump you're going to need both an electrician and a plumber when the actual electrical work involved is basically just swapping over some wires. I'd view it the same as any joinery work being required - for simple stuff like cutting a bit out of a cupboard, then the installer should be able to do it (as they did here) however if the work required a huge amount of work to box a new boiler in or required alterations to a stud wall, I'd expect them to get a joiner in.
@@camerongray1515 But if you were having a new boiler boxed in you would not need an electrician ?
I didn't say that, I said that in the same way that a heating engineer should be able to do basic control wiring, they should be able to do basic joinery work themselves but if more advanced work was required then I'd expect them to get a joiner in. I have no issue with getting specialists in if required or if it is outside of someone's comfort zone, but sometimes I feel like trades silo themselves to ridiculous levels - a friend of mine recently had a plumbing company refuse to fix a leak because they'd have had to cut into a ceiling to access pipework.
I recently had a Ideal Vogue 32 MAX installed. Wanted my existing Nest Learning thermostat (3rd gen) set up to work with my new boiler. Electrician didn't have clue what he was doing. Connected the Nest OT connections up to the 240v inputs in the boiler. Thankfully no damage done to the Nest, but I had to expain to him that there are low voltage OT connections in the boiler, he didn't even know they were there. 😲 It's all fine now, with Weather Compenstation also installed, will see how that works out when the weather takes a dip.
Ouch! Good on Nest for presumably designing the heat link to be able to deal with such idiocy! This is why I tend to always do things myself - I find it too hard to trust contractors not to do things like this, I find it crazy that DIYers are often more up to date with modern standards than people who should be experts in it.
@@camerongray1515 I could not agree more Cameron. When it became clear that he had no experience with OT I politely suggested that "Google is his friend" so he could look it up on his phone, but nope! Could not be bothered. Shocking!! Most annoying. Also, heating engineer had no idea what Boiler Plus was, though to be fair, this new standard will be required for compliance only in England, A date has not yet been set to Bring Boiler Plus standard to Scotland
@@camerongray1515 Oh, and I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Electrician connected the two OT wires from the heat link into the swithiched live inputs for CH and DHW, so no 240v was passed back to the Nest. I think that would have blown the Nest to bits. I've been inside my Nest Heatlink, it does not have protection against idiocy, I just got lucky
That would make a bit more sense if boiler plus isn't a thing in Scotland yet since there's probably no rush to install OpenTherm controls since people tend to never move unless they're basically forced to but I still find it crazy that you can have a job and be totally oblivious to the changing landscape of your industry. I come from a technology background and I'm terrified of getting left behind if I don't keep up to date with things!
@@camerongray1515 Indeed!! My installer is a nice guy from the same well-to-do housing estate as me, but when I mentioned Boiler Plus to him he just said "ah!! regs, not my thing, I let the office deal with all that sort of thing" I mean... WTF! right!!
Had mine installed 3 days ago and asked for it to be wired up for open therm when i found out that the engineer was going to wire up for on/off.
Now i find that you can not turn of the preheat function which seems counter productive. Does anyone know if there is a solution for this?
I made a video installing Nest for OpenTherm on mine and found the same issue. With Nest I worked out that setting the Nest to think that it was connected to a System Boiler rather than a Combi worked to disable preheat: ua-cam.com/video/gZcy0sruFfA/v-deo.html. If you're using a different type of control then you'd need to look into your control settings to see if you can do similar. Equally, I'm not sure how much gas the preheat necessarily uses so it may also be worth setting up the ViCare app and look at the gas consumption for a day when you didn't use any hot water or heating to see how much the preheat actually uses - I keep meaning to re-enable preheat while I go away for a couple of days to check this out of curiosity.
one thing i can tell right away is that that boiler would probly not have been enough for me. cuz i like thaking quite long warm showers idk how many litres that thing is but im guessing its not to much, unless ur using this for room heating only then it would probly be enough
It's a "combi" boiler so doesn't store water - it heats it on demand. With this one being a 30kW model it should be more than enough for a powerful shower, I checked mine this morning and while it was feeding a shower at a pretty high flow rate and decent temperature it was only running at round 40% so should be more than enough for a hot shower, even in winter when the water coming into the boiler is cold,
@@camerongray1515 That actually pretty good. Thanks for explaining and giving info.
This is amazing - thank you for the information. I will definitely look at this way of doing this. Thought a local installer was the only way to do it The only problem, I have is that I don't trust/like Google .. I'd want to use Tado - but that sounds like a bad idea from what you say. No way google though .. :(
It was definitely a lot more convenient than faffing around with local installers. As for Tado, it looks like the Tado wired thermostat might support OpenTherm but it'll require a cable between the boiler and the thermostat, the wireless one doesn't. There are also other options that support OpenTherm but aren't Google, namely Drayton Wiser and Honeywell Evohome
@@camerongray1515 oh thanks! I’m not as good as you with the wiring (I have a PhD in physics and should know! Which makes it all the more annoying. ) so I’d be really stuck without seeing this. Thank you. You’ve saved me a load of faffing about! [I think this is my first comment on your channel I’ve been subscribed for years now, and I’ve always loved the content you put on - thanks!]
Price of energy right now its depressing they're not installing OT on combi's by default
Pity there wasn’t an easy way of controlling it if the 3rd party control fails 🤦, I preferred the controls on the front (or the mrs does )
talk about overselling lol!! I can show you three installs done by Heatable that are worser than worse!
And for the record it’s more likely for a larger company to fold over a smaller independent that provides a far better quality of install.
I'm only providing my experience, I could equally show a tonne of dreadful installs by non-heatable companies, both big and small. Ultimately there is always a risk no matter what company you go for. What I liked here was that heatable review the job so it's not left to the installer to mark their own homework. In my case, the installer (who I equally could have hired as an independent contractor) failed to install the plume management kit which turned out to be required by viessmann's instructions due to the proximity to an internal corner. This was picked up by heatable when they reviewed the job and they sent the installer back to rectify the issue. Had I hired the contractor independently, I'd have been none the wiser about the lack of plume management kit and would probably only have found out if it caused an issue at a future service or warranty claim.
Heatable ultimately use independent contractors, they just provide an extra layer of oversight and support on top. And in terms of which is more likely to fail, your claim has a big "citation needed" over it, my logic is that a small company with one person can easily shut down and reopen under a different name to get away from legal action, much harder to do if you're a large company.
Watching none professionals on heating is hilariously bad 😂
what was wrong then?
Viessmann Vitodens 050-W is like £3k installed now :(
great video hoping to get the same boiler with heatable looks good a install cameron
I like your videos
You are so wrong in saying that a local Gas engineer would mess up the installation, it is proven that the big nationwide boiler installation company has the most horror installs , as local company we have to fix shit after big companies like IHeat , Heatable , Glowgreen , Boxt .
I can guarantee that a local gas engineer has more reputation to protect that this subcontractors working for the big boys .
At no point did I say that "a local gas engineer will mess up the installation." Realistically there are benefits to both options. My logic here was that if I were to have had an issue, my contract legally speaking would have been with Heatable who are a much larger company vs a small company where the risk is that they fold and disappear. I was also able to pay on credit card to gain additional protection in the event of any issues. I'm in no doubt that you perform very good installs, but as a consumer it's extremely difficult to differentiate between a company I can trust and one I can't - my parents for example have always used a couple of very well known, long standing, well reviewed local companies yet when I installed a Hive thermostat for them, I came across some of the most dreadful wiring I've seen, amongst all other sorts of bodgery hidden away where my parents wouldn't have seen it.
There is also admittedly a level of convenience - I just needed to get the boiler installed after putting it off for years and having very limited time to mess around getting quotes and hoping people would turn up. With this I literally booked it in a couple of days before, and it was all completed within a day. It also turned out that Heatable performed additional checks after the install was completed - at the time of installation the installer didn't install the plume management kit as the flue exit was far enough away from windows/air vents. What the installer hadn't considered was that it was too close to an internal corner to meet the manufacturer's instructions. Heatable spotted this during their final checks/sign-off of the install and sent the installer back to rectify and it and install the plume management kit, had I hired the installer directly, the plume management kit would have likely never been installed.
Regarding heatable absorbing costs of unexpected problems, i absolutely guarantee it will be the poor bastard throwing the boiler at the wall who has to absorb the costs, not heatable.
I think it's a bit of both - Heatable pay the installer a fixed fee for the install (around £400 for a combi swap if I remember correctly) but barring a few sundries, heatable provide the parts that end up being required. So sure for the installer, some jobs will be a bit more time consuming but equally others will be relatively quick. From a customer perspective it makes things a lot more predictable.
I actually now have a decent example from this job of where heatable came in invaluable. When the installer fitted it, he didn't install a plume kit. After I published this video, Heatable inspected the install photos (or at least I presume this is what happened) and determined that a plume kit should have been installed as the flue was within 300mm of an internal corner which is against Viessmann's instructions. Heatable supplied a plume kit and sent the installer back to fit it. This plume kit costs around £80 but didn't cost me any extra. Additionally, as far as I can tell, it was Heatable that flagged up the lack of plume kit, had I gone directly with the installer, I probably still wouldn't have a compliant install and would be none the wiser until I end up having issues with Viessmann's warranty in the future as it wasn't installed in line with their instructions.
A small local installer is always better than some giant faceless company. Your local guy will care about their reputation and will be trading on word of mouth.
The bigger company don't care. You're just a number. If it goes wrong you'll moan for a bit, maybe leave a bad review and it'll be swallowed up by all the others.
You have no idea how good the installer is before they turn up, you only know how good the sales team are.
Glad it went well for you though
That's very fair, my fear was that I've seen plenty dreadful work from local installers, for example, my parents had used a reputable local installer to replace some motorised valves. I ended up later installing a new thermostat for them and found the standard of the wiring that had been left behind was shocking (ua-cam.com/video/9L2kKI7e0GE/v-deo.html ) yet my parents had no idea since it was buried under the floor so they would have happily recommended the company. My logic with going through Heatable was that if there was a problem with the installer, I'd at least have a company to go to about it rather than it just being me against a single installer, Heatable could then send a different installer to rectify issues. It also allowed me to pay by credit card which offers section 75 protection whereas a lot of local installers would want paid by cash/bank transfer which offers no protection.
@@camerongray1515 You used a large company and got bad wiring too. I would tell people to pay attention to the job being done regardless of who's doing it.
A lot of local installers accept cards now. Since covid I'd actually say most do now.
Your local installer will also use local suppliers and will spend the income locally rather than some company that buys in bulk direct from foreign manufacturers. Heatable have pallets of your boiler direct from Viessmann. They save on buying in equipment then match the prices local guys with more links in the chain charge and pocket the difference.
With the bad wiring, that was absolutely the case, however at least if I wasn't willing to fix it myself, I could have spoken to Heatable about it. In fact, it turned out that the installer hadn't installed the plume management kit which was actually required due to my flue being too close to an internal corner. This was only identified by Heatable when they reviewed the job photos that had been submitted and sent the installer back a couple of days later. Had I gone with the installer themselves then nobody would have picked up on the non-complaint installation until years later at a servicing/inspection/warranty claim where the cost of fixing it would likely have landed on me.
As for keeping an eye on the contractor, I agree, however I was working from home at the time so was tied to my desk most of the day so couldn't be there for the whole process. Also since I was wanting to review the process as if I was a normal customer who probably knows nothing about heating systems, I didn't want to get too involved except for the final point when I needed the OpenTherm flex connected.
Then when it comes to the supplier, the boiler and all parts came from Plumbase who delivered everything in the morning (and promptly crashed their van into a lamppost...) so while it's not a local independent merchant, it's not coming directly from Heatable. I suspect most local installers would buy from a similar place.
@@camerongray1515 The 300mm rule is gas regs not a manufacturer recommendation and the installer really should have known that so yes in this instance having someone review the job helped.
I view the huge installers like amazon. You may get the same product but its at the cost of the local economy.
I wouldn't use them if it was avoidable.
Complete anorak.