@@junkoenoshima2756 mhm agree but it was meant to point out that these need extra attention im pretty sure, not that they are also a part of it because they already were. But if it feels like that then we should stop doing that :)
Yes but trans people POC people werent included for a really long time so adding them to the flag is a reminder that theyre still here and it is like an apology to all thoose people for not including them alot before, like how people wanna throw out trans people or how POC LGBTQ were opressed by white LGBTQ and not accepted
With this one it's a bit awkward. I think it's come through coincidentally as the black is related with HIV+ people from an individual flag (I think I'm remembering right) and the black stripe coming from that one from Pennsylvania Shaaba referenced. It's a coincidence that hasn't been through. As someone that falls under the both the B and the T the chevron feels a bit othering.
Yeah. They did/do have higher rates of infection in many places but this is just... Directly associating poc with a horrific disease that claimed to many lives and can affect almost anyone.
As a black person who's questioning their sexuality and gender identity, it feels like I would be segregated from the rest of the lgbtq+ community because I'm black. Why do I need an entirely new stripe to represent me? Does that mean I wouldn't be included in the rainbow flag? But if the rainbow flag is supposed to represent the entire community why am I being singled out? Just because I'm black?? What does the colour of my skin have to do with my sexuality/gender identity? Like I get that's not the intention behind the flag but that's how it's being interpreted, at least to me anyways.
I'm white, but I'm trans and I completely agree with you. I feel like I should be able to feel at home in the rainbow, without the need to add a new stripe just for me. Trans BIPOC are already singled out and attacked on the streets, why do we have to single them out somewhere they should blend in?
I'm not black, but I am still a person of colour and I'd like to maybe clarify that as far as I know, this flag is not used for another community, but rather as a new look on the general LGBTQ+ flag LGBTQ+ POC were always part of the community and every flag, however, people ignored and belittled us, with racism still existing in these sort of spaces and people not considering how different countries get to experience LGBTphobia. The stripes were added not to say that we are separate, but to remind everyone that LGBTQ+ POC exist and are an important part of the community, it's used as a highlight, to remember that when we fight for our rights we fight for all, and we listen to everyone. I am questioning on both as well, however as it stands I have experienced racism from everywhere, including the LGBTQ+ community, and knowing that even in opressed groups people still get to be discriminatory to those who are different it feels like an important addition to me, because it makes me feel considered when others use it. That's how I interpret it at least, of course, if you want to express being in the community in any other way you're free to, specially if it reminds you as another sort of opression
sounds like something a middle-aged white man would say, and it really does cover everything. it’s inclusive too, and the entire community uses it. edit: happy pride month!
Black as a symbol for those who are HIV+ feels off for me to. 1) its not been clearly identified (I had no idea black stood for HIV+) 2) people living with HIV today are thriving! HIV is not a death sentence, people live full and incredible lives 3) When I think of HIV I think of the red ribbon 4) It can get really exhausting to always see the reminder of the atrocities of the AIDS crisis and how we lost millions of people due to bad policy and political neglect. I totally agree we can't forget this, but it keeps the shame and idea that HIV is a "gay virus"
Omg please look at how much hiv meds cost! Not everyone who gets hiv dies from it nowadays but poor people who can't afford medicine do. (Simalar situation for insulin)
Yes! I’m surprised no one else has brought up that HIV and other sexual transmitted diseases can be passed on by heterosexual individuals as well! Adding the black stripe to the flag makes it seem as only us LGBT+ individuals get it :(
Actually, the black stripe was originally added for those who died of HIV during the early 80's when there was no treatment. It stood for all those who had lost their lives because the government refused to do anything until it started affecting straight people. So yes, it originally stood for those who died from HIV.
Do you have any thought on effective ways to push towards inclusion symbolcally? I feel like over the years the rainbow flag has been increasingly become associated with gay white men. I've found it less powerful to me personally as a gay white man, as a sort of symbol of the disparity within our worlds and within the external perception of LGBT+. This video itself is super great as it recontextualizes my perceptions of the rainbow flag by more voices. But I'd like to find a way to remind people of the broader reality of those who may need more lifting up within the LGBT+ space.
These people are kinda saying that the rainbow flag didn’t represent all of these people in the first place. The rainbow flag represents all people who are either not cis or not straight. The rainbow flag represents all lgbtqia+ people! Not just gay people. That has never changed and it sometimes confuses me why people see the need to change the inclusion of people who are not gay. Just because you are straight but also trans does not mean the flag doesn’t represent you. It represents all and it always has. So we should keep it that way.
@@schiffelers3944 not really, the + is just a stand-in for QIA as far as im aware, straight trans people are absolutely included but because theyre trans, not straight
This might sound controversial, but the black and brown stripes are such an American thing to add to the flag, I'm brown and everyone in my country is brown, so raising that flag will mean absolutely nothing here, because everyone is brown, or raising this flag in countries with black people as the majority will also give it no meaning. The original flag was made to represent all lgbt people, not just from America.
On the surface it may appear like adding these two colours includes lgbt poc who are involved in the community, but it reinforces the notion that lgbt poc weren't there in the first place, from my perspective I found it harder to relate in terms of coming out, accepting myself in my own community and in the lgbt community entirely, when the majority of my lgbt peers were white and didn't have the same experience with coming out as I did - simply based on background race etc. by only recently adding the colours that include the black and brown stripes - like you said there is no use in places that aren't seemingly white dominated - personally the lack of representation for lgbt poc will continue the notion that the poster child for being lgbt is white.
@@jupssubs Its like they're trying to single out the darker colored people. As a white person how I see this is they want to make the community recognise them more, but people already did. Its strange and kinda stupid how they did it. I just like to use the original rainbow flag, because oldies are goodies.
I think it's just to think more about the black transgender woman that batteled for the lgbtq+ right , we wouldn't be here without them and it's cool that they have their own colors on the flag ( sorry for the bad english it's not my first language)
@@StarEatsRocks yes but that would be in america aswell I know the us has an effect on other countries but still. The queer community isn’t just struggling in the us and isn’t just developing in the us
This is the first time that I've heard someone mention asexuality first in their list of 'other' sexualities. It felt so good not the be an afterthought if you get what I mean
Isla Hooper ye i feel u I’m lesbian and definitely not ace But I noticed that a lot of people often forget that ace ppl are a part of the lgbtq community And the fact ppl never acknowledge ace ppl upsets me
I agree, I think officially, the rainbow one should be the main one. All of the other variations can exist too, it's fun to have a very specific one just for your group, but I think having the rainbow one to represent everyone is the most important. Plus, it's a bit iffy with countries other than America using that one, racially, because Americans seem to think that their idea of race is how the rest of the world uses it? And it really just doesn't work, because for a lot of people, this idea of all 'black' or 'brown' people being represented in one group just doesn't work, the majority of people in the world have a darkish skin tone that white Westerners might consider black or brown, but they would more likely find their ethnicity / national / local identity as much more important.
Dude, that's a super cool point! I didn't even think about that. The rainbow is universally accepting, whereas the progress flag might really only be relevant in a few countries. Thanks for sharing! 🏳️🌈❤️
Also, is there anything more inclusive than a rainbow? It’s shows the spectrum of light, doesn’t represent any skin color or country or religion. And everyone loves rainbows.
Agreed. I work for COC - an organization in the Netherlands that fights for equal rights for the LGBT+ community - but I hear how they're not going to change the flag anytime soon because it just doesn't seem to be necessary. The colorful rainbow - that doesn't represent white people, but just everyone in general - is enough.
I remember seeing this and thinking, “well if there’s a black stripe and brown stripe, where’s the stripes for Asian ethnicities and Native Americans ect?”
I said this too, back when this first happened and my smartass mouth said the Asians and the Native Americans can just use the red and yellow stripes to serve double duty. I was quickly called a racist. LOL.
@@rainbowroom24-7-52 I believe this is an innocent slip up but that does sound racist... when I say I'm yellow I don't mean I'm yellow in the literal sense. Plus both the asians and native Americans have a history of being labelled these colours so to say for us to just use one of the colours from the flag is racially insensitive and puts us in a position where we're not valuable enough for our actual skin tone to be used on the flag. The brown strip is divisive and I hate it every time I see it. (the og black strip for HIV/AID I stan)
People underestimate the importance of having a SIMPLE flag. We need main designs that can be mass produced. This is part of why I was also a huge pro for the lesbian flag redesign (among many other reasons ofcourse). The orange made it easier to be made and recognized for anything from small busineses woth less ink colors available to big busineses that have more separate colors to use. This isn't any different. The rainbow is recognizable and simple to reproduce on ANYTHING.
I like the rainbow flag not because of what the individual bars mean, but because of what the symbolism of a rainbow itself means. Optimism and diversity. A wide spectrum of people flying under one flag for one cause. The cause: to be treated as equals in this confusing and wild ride called life without feeling shame for oneself. And that is why we call it pride. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Great point. Perhaps a better flag for your points would have a gradient rainbow rather than discrete stripes. The stripes focus many (not all) people's minds on the trees rather than the forest - "what does each stripe mean?". If gender is a spectrum, that implies a continuous variation, not a countable number of big steps. Then rather than fighting over the meaning of a given stripe and when new stripes are needed or not, we could just focus on the broader message of inclusion and fuzzy boundaries between categories.
I feel kinda the same about that. Skin colour has nothing to do with lgbt+ and the original rainbow is already meant to represent the whole spectrum of lgbt+, therefore automatically including trans people and every other sexuality and gender identity and _everyone_ who falls under the spectrum, so adding and pointing them out separately doesn't sit right with me.
It's true that skin colour doesn't have anything to do with it, but the experience poc have with their sexuality and gender is gonna be different than a western white person due to cultural differences. In the white western world we have the binary of gender accepted as norm, as well as heterosexuality. While in some other cultures, three or more genders are more widely accepted, so obviously their experience will be different. Racism will also have an effect on one's experience. For example, I read this wonderful article about a black trans man. Black women are often stereotyped as aggresive and masculine, so before he realised he was trans, he had to over perform being feminine to compensate for racism, which made is so much more difficult when he realised he was trans. Sorry for the long comment lol, it's an aspect of the lgbtq community that I'm passionate about, and is often ignored
@@tregenzat1178 A long with what someone replied the lgbtq+ flag is universal and black and brown races are not 'minority' everywhere! So the extra stripe is just there to segregate. Lgbtq+ is everyone who identifies with it.
I disagree that ethnic rights and queer rights aren't the same thing. They're both directly connected to systematic queering for the benefit of the ruling class. On the other hand, highlighting oppressed ethnic groups in particular rather than using a universal symbol of humanity (the rainbow) to express what should be done seems unhelpful.
@i think i might have aids As far as I know, the reason for the inclusion of ethnic minorities was to raise awareness of racism within the LGBT+ community, and to acknowledge the unique struggles that LGBT poc have. Black trans-women are especially at risk of violence against them. I think that there's occasion where it's appropriate to use the inclusive flag; people seem especially tempted to use it now because of the protests going on globally.
In the same way that "Black lives matter" implied that they aren't included in "all lives?" Because neither of those is true. Drawing attention to those who face marginalization from within the queer community isn't othering them, it's saying that progress requires we bring them to the same status cis white gay people have already gained.
@@pjaypender1009 i see what you mean, but it’s not the same. a more accurate analogy would be if there was a petition to try and add a black and brown stripe to the official us flag. the implication being that “the black and brown stripe represents nonwhite americans, and the rest of the flag represents normal americans”
@@you_just no, it's not. The purpose of the flag of a country is not remotely like the purpose of a Pride flag. It's absurd for the same reason a straight pride flag is absurd.
I can agree with how nice it is to have the "this matters too" part, but the rainbow flag is inclusive to all and has been here for so long. It holds so much meaning and history to people of The LGBTQ+ community and their allies. So no, personally, I don't want the amazing rainbow flag to be replaced with that one :))))) Amazing video Shaaba! And happy almost pride month to everyone 🥰🥰
If people don't support the "new flag" it won't take off just stay with the rainbow pride flag :/ we know what it stands for it has meaning and it has history just keep it as is :)
I think, from what I know, the color minority thing was a USA thing that started not long ago. Like... I don't get why we can't just bring back the OG flag with the trans stripes. Cause tbh I don't mjnd the trans stripes being added on the side.
I also like the normal rainbow because now anything rainbow is also gay Which is great because a rainbow isn’t always gay so closeted people can have something
@@Cdog-vl3gk right? You can wear your flag with pride without letting the whole world know. In Form of an umbrella or pin, necklace etc as long as it has 6 of the rainbows colours on it it's the gay flag without actually being the gay flag. While most people won't look twice the ones that are like you will know without you having to out yourself. Wich is how I meet some of my then (lgbtq+) friends in highschool tbh. So no I wouldn't want it changed.
I mean the rules of vexilolgy says that only 3 colours shall be used, now the basic pride flag pushes this a lot but it is a rare example that works especially since all the colours go together, however the new one just doesn’t work the black brown just stick out like a sore thumb and the pink and blue stuff are already on there so with the new shades it’s just like no ew.
Guys, the flag is for ALL lgbt+ people, no matter the race, religion etc. Therefore we shouldn’t have to add stripes for race, it takes the meaning away
As a nonbinary person, I prefered thinking I was part of the 'rainbow' rather than having trans as a seperate thing. Not all non-binary people are trans, but some are, so it feels weird to see it separated from something that already felt intersectional.
Same. I personally don't mind being called trans but tbh I don't know whether I would actually call myself trans or not. This means seeing the flag makes me feel awkward
@@gaming_xiu8102 Yes the label does fall under the trans category but some nb people don't feel comfortable saying they're trans so they don't use that label ^^
@@enbypotato but trans isn't about comfort, that's like identifying as cis because you're not comfortable being gay, but you are gay. Nb people are trans and saying they can pick and choose is hurtful to trans people
Thanks for watching and sharing your views! I wanted to make a quick note: when I first made this video, the use of the actual 6-striped LGBT+ flag to support NHS workers wasn't a common thing, but it's seemingly become quite frequent now. I agree, it's not very nice or useful to use the rainbow flag instead of the rainbow arch for healthcare support. There are more substantial ways we can be supporting the NHS (voting, funding, etc) and there are more adequate symbols that can be used that preserve the rainbow flag to reflect LGBT+ support and safe spaces x
@@Stettafire No. They didn't "steal" the rainbow, they stole the precise shape and configuration of the pride flag. A rainbow is a separate thing that can co-exist. More problematic is that NHS had started an initiative where staff who had taken training in compassionately working with LGBTQ+, and has additional training regarding LGBTQ+ issues related to healthcare - were issued a pin to wear which had the pride flag and NHS on it. When "I support NHS rainbows got conflated with the rainbow pride flag those pins became essentially worthless in notifying people that "this person is an ally and understands your needs" because it became misunderstood as "I support NHS", and they were made widely, and now you see them on people who do not have that additional training, and have not been vetted as people who will provide a safe space. On a more general level, yes, it's lovely to see pretty rainbows all around, but it used to tell me something about the attitude of the people displaying it. Not only are they LGBTQ+, or allies, but they're willing to publicly state that. Of course we support the NHS, staff. And it's valuable to show that, and remind people that we're going to get through this, but there was no need to appropriate and muddle the meaning of a well known symbol.
a typical rainbow goes in the order ‘red, orange, green, blue, indigo, violet’. a typical (original) pride flag goes in the order ‘pink, red, orange, yellow, green, light blue, blue, purple’. a modern pride flag goes in the order ‘red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple’ so there are som differences, but it’s definitely irritating people using either of the pride orders to support the nhs to be honest
@@mia_crxn9397 the nhs doesn’t have a flag. kids started drawing rainbows as support & putting them in their windows. which led to flags with rainbows on being made which is fine. what isn’t fine is people buying lgbt flags & using them as “nhs flags” & sellers repurposing lgbt flags as “nhs flags” for profit.
As a bisexual trans person, before this progress flag started being more prominent, I felt comfortable using the rainbow pride flag to represent both of my identities. Now with it being considered to replace the rainbow pride flag, it made me feel like a part of me that I grouped together before we're meant to more separate and that with this flag, me being trans was somehow meant to be more important to me as being bisexual, which just isn't true. All aspects of my identity and everyone else's should be treated equally and I feel like this is something the progress flag fails to do by choosing 3 groups already meant to be represented by that rainbow flag and putting them in a place to look more important than other groups.
it’s kinda just cramming different things together to try and seem more accepting, but in the process making things worse, i’ll definitely be sticking with my rainbow flag :/
Thank you! Though I automatically assumed the Latinxes, natives, and mixed people were all lumped into the brown (I am native btw) Though I feel that race shouldn’t be included on the pride flag
@@tahraethestoryteller6079 I feel the same! And as a mixed person myself (black/white mixed if you're curious), I'm not really brown, I'm more honey-caramel color. It's kinda hard to hard to explain it lol, but I'm definitely not brown. Like- you can't just slap two colors on a flag and be like "We're being inclusive", because at the same time, their kind of excluding other POC that don't comply with those colors. That is why it is so important to have a simple flag, so _everybody_ is including. They're also excluding trans people, since that their implying (all though not intentionally) that Transgender people are a separate thing from the LBGTQ+. sorry for this little tangent lol
Hearing people or seeing people always disagree with aro/ace being a part of the lgbt+ spectrum really hurts, because as some who is ace, it was such a big thing for me to come to terms with and figure out “what was wrong with me” and so many people don’t understand it and think it is fake. I shouldn’t have to include this but I’m also biromantic, but so many people would say I wouldn’t be a part of lgbt+ if I was just ace.
@@ceoofclowning766 Biromantic means bisexual but exclusively in a romantic way and not in a sexual way. You can add the -romantic suffixe After every orientation like homoromantic, panromantic etc... You can be Biromantic and asexual, gyneromantic and demi-sexual, aromantic and homosexual etc ^^'
Ace is 1 million percent valid as a part of LGBTQ+ just by itself. People who dont understand this community don't understand all that the flag and community stands for and represents. Ace is valid.
As a trans man, this flag has always felt rather, odd to me... Like it was telling me I wasn't *really* part of the lgbt community until now, and a lot of my friends feel that it's separating them for being asian, like it's saying they aren't as much a part of the lgbt community because they aren't black or white. Personally, this flag feels like it's separating us, and saying we aren't really equal
@@imahallucination4422 I find, being a trans gay Japanese man already makes me feel different enough, singling that all out by changing a flag no one had issue with just makes it worse. Thankfully I haven't seen anyone much using this flag more recently, but that could be because we're in the middle of a global pandemic and couldn't exactly hold pride this year. And no worries about your english, it was perfect
Was the black and brown striped supposed to represent us east asians too? Because I always felt like this was meant for black, indigenous and south asians... I might be wrong because im japanese brazilian but I kinda felt like those colors were meant to represent dark skinned ppl and not light skinned POC
Everyone let’s just appreciate Shaaba’s courage to do such a controversial video: I think this one is even more than just general gay videos, so huge props
I like 🏳️🌈 more too, Shabba said what I was thinking, it really makes it seem like people of colour and trans people are not already part of pride, and I'm a person of colour myself. The intentions were good, but it really can't replace our flag. Also, I agree, it IS King Namjoon. didn't expect likes...thx to the 11 ppl!
I'm a trans person and feel othered by the flag for the exact reasons Shaaba talked about. I've never spoken up about it tho because I didn't want to be called a bigot for feeling that way
I mean the mainstream lgbtq movement has sidelined trans and POC folks. I don’t see an issue with making it explicit that they’re part of the community. Also, y’all don’t know how racist white gays can be.
It feels like "Look, it's everyone! AND ALSO DON'T FORGET ABOUT TRANS AND RACES" And I just. I already want to be in the flag, and I DON'T need to be on it TWICE! If you're a minority race, gay, and trans, aren't you on it three times?
The rainbow flag ALREADY represented everyone inside the community. It was never JUST gay. You might see people using it as just a gay flag, but I think the rainbow always represented everyone. The rainbow is everyone, you don't need to put them on there.
yea, i explained this more in a stand alone comment, but i’m an asian trans guy and get othered a lot for it. i’m sick of it and i’m sick of being used as “LOOK WERE DIVERSE AND INCLUSIVE THIS IS A PLACE FOR EVERYONEEE UWU” like ok i’m just tryna live my life and pass high school, i’m not some social justice achievement badge
The black and brown stripe on the flag makes it seem like not all poc are now part of LGBT community by default. LGBT has nothing to do with race, its all about sexuality and gender identity
It doesnt bother me if they use the rainbow that's a different symbol but there are people flying pride flags in support of the nhs who if their kid came out and gay or trans they would kick them out and I dont think that's right
I agree, that does suck. There's a nuanced difference between the two symbols: the NHS rainbow and the pride flag, and it's tricky if people don't use that correctly x
Yea I don't think there's anything wrong with using the rainbow for the NHS atm. throughout history the rainbow has been a sign of hope and promise, first in the bible and then adopted by the lgbtq+ comunity, (possibly other groups as well, I'm not entirely sure). Because the meaning of the rainbow is hope, I'd say that any group/organisation/comunity facing hardship should be able to use the symbol to represent that
"The original flag has lost its meaning" No it hasn't, we just need to remind people of its meaning and its long history. I do fear that the original flag is going to be erased or replaced. I loved your point about a rainbow being a spectrum so it inherently encompasses all identities. This is such a great video, thank you for explaining it so eloquently!
As a white, cis woman, I have kept my mouth shut because it's not about me. But I have always felt resistant to the additions as I always thought the point of the standard rainbow flag WAS inclusivity, so adding to it really only confused the issue. Glad to hear I wasn't too far off the mark, even if my vote is not the one that matters in this matter. As always, my ears are open on how to be a better ally.
yeah that’s one thing i was thinking abt. the rainbow flag is for every part of the lgbtq+, and there are also different flags for specific sexualities/gender identities.
It's like what Shaaba said about the flag representing LGBTQ+ people as a spectrum. So by adding a new section for trans people and POC, you're essentially trying to separate them into different groups, which isn't really the point (in my opinion, anyway).
Queer POC and trans people: Hello yes, we can't help but notice that we are often left out of conversations around LGBT+ issues and are also often lacking in representation. People: *ignores this, adds stripes to a flag* Queer POC and trans people: Umm... we appreciate the gesture, but adding more colors to the flag doesn't actually address the issues we outlined before...
Yes this is correct - especially as one of the top comments said that it kind of feels like we’re being used as just a prop for “progressiveness” which by the way I totally agree with.
“Actions speak louder than flags.” Wish large corporations would take this to heart. If they used just a small fraction of their wealth to support the lgbt community instead of trying to profit off us, we could be in a much better place for lgbt rights worldwide.
@@eMorphized To bad these mega corporations don't care. I don't typically buy merchandise because these companies feel disingenuous by tokenizing us by only doing things during June.
My school was “celebrating” pride WEEK not pride MONTH and a whole bunch of str8 kids put that (the thumbnail) as their pfp. Like bro... all of us are there. None of us should feel left out of the flag. Back to my school story: I get it, they think they’re supporting us, but it’s wrong. I put my pfp as pan and proud and my teacher made me change it smh. She said it’s “inappropriate” and “disturbing” to my classmates. A kid and my class pretended to be pan (she’s not) and it’s so disrespectful ! I hate my school and I want to drop out.
What?! This is stupid pan is inappropriate? You're teacher (sorry if I used the wrong you're I'm young) is so dumb I'm for my graduation my teacher let me wear a dress even I was born in this awful body (male) and he was chill about it I hope he's ur teacher in the future:) Sorry if this all over the place it's late and I'm not exactly good at telling story's anyway have a good day
@@Ghostiiie aww awful body? Don't worry, you can like anything you want and be a guy, I know I used to feel like I had to be a boy to like what I liked, but now I'm proud to be a woman who secretly enjoys armpit farts, where's no nonsense clothing, has short, manageable hair, whereas no makeup, never wears a dress, never wears frills or place of any type, hates magical girls and loves anything that includes big robots with big guns and big explosions go boom and samurai and ninja going at it in battle, but one absolutely nothing to do with a romance saga. I hope you soon find comfort within yourself, I believe in you ✊❤️
Oml since they are already trying to change it, why not add the bi, lesbian,ace,etc flags to it??? Make it even more complicated, unnecessary, and ugly -.-
ahhhhhh but you see!!!111! just stack the flags on top of one another like some sort of weird Tetris abomination! In all seriousness though as a trans person I do see the idea with it but I thing the better way of going about it is to rather than divide out gender identities and sexual identities try to push out more the idea that trans people exist as a part of the lgbt community as well. pretty much just the same points made in the video, its well intentioned but it really doesn't help anything.
I recently bought the progress flag to display on my house during pride and protests, specifically because I live in a white straight neighborhood where people probably don't understand that the pride flag includes everyone, and I want to make them think about it. Plus I wanted to have the pride and trans flag combined in one in the hope that other trans people feel supported should they happen to see it. I do agree with you though, this flag should not replace the pride flag and everyone is already included.
The "new" flag is a little ugly... I get that it stands for things that need to be said, but (as a guy who likes to study flags) i find it too hard to look at. The rainbow is very nice to look at, and everyone can recognize it.
Exactly! And this flag also has zero representation for the disabled members of the community. We're always forgotten about. I mean most of the pride events aren't even accessible to us! And when people do talk about disability it's always with pity. 'Hide it away!' 'It's a bad thing!' I'm disabled, it sucks sometimes but it's a part of me and it's made me a stronger person and I'd like to be able to show it without getting nothing but pity.
It sucks that disabled people get ignored just because it's an issue we cant do too much about. The only thing is I dont think it needs to be part of the flag. Just like race and HIV it is it's own problem and not really part of LGBT. I get the flag is about loving and accepting everyone but its really about sexual orientation and gender, not just any minority. I'm not trying to attack or ignore anyone here so sorry if your upset =)
I’m nb and gay and I actively use this and the classic. I use the classic more just around the house and the progress one on the exterior of my place. I do so because 1) it makes me feel seen as an NB in a community where even other queer people say I don’t exist 2) I feel it shows my active support for the additional oppression pocs face and 3) where I live, people are absolutely just putting NHS on top of the classic flag even when they are incredibly homophobic, they are not just drawing cute rainbows. By using this flag I can show that this is an actual safe space for people not homophobic people trying to take the flag because they can.
The flag was made for LGBT, adding race and HIV+ representation etc just feels forced and is taking away from what the flags about. Sexual orientation and gender has nothing to with race or having HIV etc, so why combine it? If you start adding more and more categories to the the flag it won’t be effective at representing the LGBT community anymore. A symbol is only good at representing something if it’s easy to see what it represents, people are gonna get confused with what all the colours mean and question what the flag is actually representing, I don’t even know what all the colours mean. Also, I like how the rainbow is used to support the NHS. The rainbow represents hope, joy and happiness it’s not specific to the LQBT community, like you said, the rainbow flag is what represents LGBT🏳️🌈. copy righting rainbows is just as silly as trying to copy right the sun. No one “owns” the sun.
The only problem I'm having with rainbow representing the NHS is there are people buying pride flags when we've fought so hard for this to be a symbol of our community. Also, there is a difference between a rainbow and a pride flag (Rainbows have 7 stripes, the pride flag has 6) Other than that, I'm fine with it.
@@alyssap737 I think the rainbow only has 6 colors because indigo doesn’t actually count because it’s wavelengths are usually just purple and blues wavelengths overlapping
@@Your_Native_Mothman yeah, I think they only made it 7 in the first place because Pythagoras said there was a link between colour waves and music waves and there’s 7 notes in an octave. (Could be Internet bullshitw tho)
oh my god thank you so much for mentioning asexuality!!! i’m aspec and have experienced aphobia in the form exclusion from some of my own friends so it’s really nice to see that some people outside the aspec community support us
When people suggested permanently replacing the flag with these versions, I felt very similar to you. Putting the black and brown stripe immediately felt like it didn't make sense to me. Of course POC and trans people should have more representation and have their own space in our activism. But there will always be something missing, because aspects like disability or many others can just not be all represented. Except they can be. With all the colours that make up any other colour, with the spectrum of the rainbow which doesn't highlight or prioritise anyone but always says: You are included, whichever identity you have. This is for you as it is for others. I always had a hard time acknowledging these other flags as replacement and you put my thoughts into words perfectly here.
@@audios.by.g I know you probably mean well, but really think through what you just said. Do you really believe that POC aren't at all present in the LGBTQ+ community? Obviously that's a silly thing to think - there are plenty of people who are both LGBT+ and POC, and these are the people who face both racism, homophobia (or any other -phobias that apply to them), and sometimes even sexism moreso than anyone who belongs to only one minority group. Essentially, the point is to show solidarity with those who are affected by the compound effects of intersectional bigotry. At least, that's always been my interpretation of the flag.
As a black, non-binary, trans masculine individual I like the progressive flag as a limited edition thing, but the current flag is supposed to be inclusive of all and we need to remember that and drill that into the heads of those who don’t want to be inclusive.
I think the rainbow shaped, 7 colour nhs symbol is great, but when people use the rectangular, 6 colour flag it starts to erase our community and everyone who has fought and died for our representation.
Also the NHS pins are now getting confusing, we had a rainbow one for equal opps to show support and make LGBT people aware that practitioner is safe to talk to, but now they are getting very similar if not the same badges to say thanks for being in the NHS, I would be worried I would mistake this for the safe person one and potentially end up in an uncomfortable situation (not all Doc's are good with me being Trans the original pin helps identify who would be)
Honestly the NHS deserves its own flag. They’ve worked so hard, with so little funding, and they don’t deserve a repurposed flag (if people use the pride flag for the NHS that is)
I love the idea but i agree that the original rainbow flag includes everybody, no matter what and there's individual flags which are used, use them in those instances.
I was really interested to hear your reasons and I liked the way you explained it. As a trans and gay person I exclusively use the progress pride flad because I find it shows both my identities.
When I first saw the "progress flag" I just felt confused by it. I didn't understand why trans individuals and people of color needed to have their own stripes when I felt that both parties were already included in the pride flag. Plus, as a trans man the progress flag makes me feel like I wasn't part of the community before and for a brief moment made me question myself. Idk, guess I'm just not a fan. I think it's cool as a piece of art if you use it to being attention to the struggles of trans individuals and people of color but I personally won't use the flag, I simply don't see a need to.
@@sirhellhound3074 Great your homophobic ass is back! Stop commenting on LGBT videos just cause you want attention! You are clearly pissed, cause you didn't get your straight pride parade.
Honestly, the progressive flag makes me feel less welcome. If it is separating trans people from the rest but not showing support for non-binary people, it makes it seem like nb people aren't included at all. I've recently been dealing with a lot of confusion about my gender and have started to accept that I am non-binary. Even if you say that nb is included in the trans community, it still feels like it's trying to separate trans people.
Exactly like not all non binary people identify as trans which just makes it even more awkward for them because it feels like people are saying: "Yes your non binary and you fall under the label falls under the trans catergory so therefore you are trans" Idk that's how it feels personally but like honestly if I get called trans I wouldn't get mad just feel confused because Idk if I would personally call myself trans
@@enbypotato its important to note that the term transgender refers to anyone who doesn't identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth. trans is an umbrella term.
@@animatedbun-gaming3315 Yes but that doesn't mean all non binary people call themselves trans. They aren't forced to just because their label falls under the trans catergory. Maybe I worded something wrong in my last comment idk.
@@enbypotato I'm nonbinary myself and have plenty of nonbinary friends who are apart of the trans community. Personally I have never heard of anyone who identifies as nonbinary and not trans. They're a very small percentage and shouldnt speak on behalf of the entire nonbinary community.
As a trans girl I just want to exist as a female that is part of the LGBTQ+ community. I just like the rainbow flag and don’t want to be separated from my LGBTQ+ homies.🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ Trans rights my people! 🏳️⚧️ Edit: holy shit it’s me 2 years later woah! But I think the flag is actually cool (my opinion changed, crazy). People conflate gay people with the rainbow flag and think of trans people as a whole different thing so as someone here replying mentioned, I think it’s cool that there’s more trans (and poc) visibility in the flag
Im a cis white woman so admittedly my opinion doesn't matter much here but I don't like the progress flag; pretty much for the reason shaaba stated. I also don't like the NHS rainbow nonsense. The NHS has a logo and people are now buying pride flags and flying them for the NHS, not for pride. I feel like we could very easily get to the point where the rainbow is taken away from us.
Of course your opinion matters. Your opinion matters a lot because we need straight cis people to accept us. Otherwise, that would be 're point in protests
As a POC pan, I have always loved the rainbow flag. It’s all encompassing, regardless of your skin color, race, ethnicity, health, religion and any other thing. It speaks louder with its simplicity because by showing none specifically, it actually shows all. As much as I love the meaning of the other flag, people can pry my rainbow out of my cold dead hands.
@Kate Seal I don’t find it offensive. I just like the other one better because as I said, by not giving particular focus to a skin color or gender identity, it theoretically gives equal focus to all. That being said however, in the gap of a year between my original comment and writing this, I am more aware of how trans people and LGBT+ POC are ignored by the cis and/or non-POC LGBT+ people. I also realize that without trans POC, LGBT+ rights most likely wouldn’t have reached where it is at present. Still, I don’t really think just including two POC stripes and a trans flag is going to do much about acknowledging the efforts of trans POC in gaining us of our rights. To really make people understand/ acknowledge/ remember what trans POC have done for our community, people need to be taught (by schools, by themselves or by other LGBT+ people) of this part of our history, otherwise I fear some folks might count this as special treatment. Also, even if we add the trans flag for gender, I don’t really see the point of adding skin color to a flag meant for gender, sexualities and romantic orientation. Not to mention, and I might sound kind of bigoted, but if we include skin color, why can we not add some symbol for other queer minorities such as physically disabled or neurodivergent LGBT+ people? Or say, Muslim or Hindu queers in terms of religion. I mean, I see even less of them in the queer media than I do POC or trans people or trans POC (which is not to say that they are well represented or even represented). And there are so many ‘variations’ of queer representation that we will always be missing one or the other if we do try to add all of them in a space as small as a flag or a pin or a bracelet. And if we do end up having different flags (again, not to say we are going in that direction, but I hope you get me), it would be just as confusing as the terms and acronyms are getting for a lot of people, even if it is helping another lot of people. Or maybe this is just me overthinking things. Either way, I personally think anything representing a community as diverse as ours should be kept as simple as possible. However, all that being said, I’d say use whichever of the flags that makes you happy and more inclusive. As there are POC, trans people, and trans POC on both sides of the opinion, I don’t think you could go wrong with getting either one or both of the flags. Note: By POC I mean queer POC. Also, I don’t know if I mentioned this, but I don’t think adding the trans flag and these stripes does anything to increase trans or queer POC visibility.
By trying to be inclusive this flag actually just does the opposite. Adding the extra stripes separates Trans and POC people from the LGBT community as if they aren't already an important part of it, the rainbow flag stands for everyone, that's why it was made.
But the point is to show black and brown ppl matters and they’re so IMPORTANT even tho they were excluded from the community by white gays. And still face discrimination.
@@eypu999 ok but what about >other< ethnicities? Black people do are important, but what about indigenous and yellow people? They suffer from the same and were not included in the flag! The new flag simply deletes everything not pasted on it, and implies that both trans and black people weren't included in the rainbow to begin with
I really like Gilbert Baker's flag with 9 stripes, the last one he designed. It includes the original pink and turquoise, and he added a lilac stripe for diversity. I think the meaning behind all the stripes is important, and what makes the flag amazing. It also looks really pretty and I wish it would be used more
Getting philosophical here, but the rainbow in general means equality, the opposite of chaos, and to add more colors to the rainbow metaphorically means you've got equality and a few added exceptions, which would make it seem like there's no longer an equality and it's just a list now
Oh dw it will never replace the rainbow flag. The progress flag for me is just a temporary thing--especially during these times. Pride Month just started but the Black Lives Matter movement is relevant today because of George Floyd's murder. So to me, the Progress flag is important today. At least, for these times, so I'm using the flag to mix Pride movement and BLM movement rn. You can use whatever flag that represents your identity or your morals, or just these times. The rainbow flag will always be the basis of the flag and will be the LGBTQ+ flag for all time. Other variations are just there to bring awareness for certain scenarios. I doubt that any variation will actually replace the rainbow, but each variation IS rooted and made, from and to call out respectively, problems that need awareness
Thanks for sharing, and completely agree, I too have been using the progress flag at this current moment in light of the black lives matter movement, super important topically x
I agree with what you said about being a limited edition. It's good and relevant now, but the rainbow flag is universal and timeless, and also a base for other limited edition flags in the future. Limited edition flags can become very prevalent in their time, and I'm ok with that, but they have a ticking clock of how long they're relevant for and that's ok. They're helpful in their time.
I saw a few pride flags during pride month and all the people around me just thought it was for the NHS and that made me so annoyed because the pride flag is used to raise awareness in a way and now it can't be used for that because people don't really know what it means because of the NHS
also if its the 'progress flag' for the rest of the future, that kinda implies that we'll never get to a point where every one in the community is equal
Also they don't necessarily want to take it, the government wearing the rainbow NHS pins (that show someone is safe to talk to about LGBT things) have pushed it I think
What you said about only trans being represented on the flag is what hit me in the wrong way too. How about putting a bi flag on there? Or pan? Those are two identities that can be surpressed in a lot of circles. Why not add the non-binary flag when some of the NB community dont feel at home under the trans umbrella? And you can keep going. Singling out specific parts of the community is exactly what the rainbow flag is supposed to PREVENT
I agree with you, I felt that something wasn't right but couldn't put my finger on what it was, and since I'm white I just preferred not to say anything. And yes the problem is that it make it seems like trans people and people of colours were not included in the classic one. (also it look messy, from an artist point of view) But I'm not against it as a specific flag, like all the other one (obviously, seeing my icon), just not as a replacement.
That's because, for a long time, transpeople and POC *were* treated like they were not included by other parts of the community. Racism and transphobia are still big problems in the LBG part of the community.
its a very difficult conversation. I don't like the proposed new flag, the rainbow is fine. I believe if you were going to have a flag for the NHS the sea blue ish colour which represents the NHS colour scheme would have been better. Ultimately no one can really "copyright" a rainbow stripe flag. As an NHS worker myself i'm honestly getting a bit annoyed with the clapping. A good portion of them voted for a garbage government. They have done this stupid clapping whilst NOT socially distancing, with multiple people that do not live in their households. It worked the first time and meant a lot to us, but now its just meaningless. In northern Ireland our government LAUGHED when they turned down our payrise, after years of a payfreeze, years of inequality between nhs trusts here and in England. The very same hung government that did no work for over 2 years and got full pay.
I am not an NHS worker but I hate the clapping and always have a little. I agree with you about the fact they voted for an awful government and are not socially distancing. May I bring up babies and people with sensory issues? Though I do not work for anyone or the NHS, I do have autism. A thing that comes with my autism is that I have sensory issues. I have these issues with all my senses, but my sensory issues are worst BY FAR when it comes to my hearing. Sensory issues with hearing is VERY common amongst people with autism, and you find it with people who don't too. Babies don't like loud noise either and it doesn't help that babies go to bed around 8pm... that sound familiar? That's when they clap. Also... why are people setting off fireworks? Especially now, when at 8pm the sun is very much still out and you can't see the fireworks. We have 5 small animals and they get TERRIFIED when the fireworks go off. It scares me too. Please just do something like donating money instead... this clapping does more bad than good imo.
people are actual hanging up actual pride flags to support the NHS and another flag which the NHS made during pride for lgbtq+ NHS workers which is just the pride flag that says NHS on it. this is what annoys me if it where a regular rainbow, or just the drawn ones that a lot of people are using, it wouldn't be an issue. A rainbow has 7 colours and the pride flag has 6
@@tigs8441 I signed it. There's another one that has more traction, too: chng.it/RsH64gWNNX I wasn't really sure what was going on, so if anyone reading this is confused: www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2020/05/06/should-the-lgbt-community-call-out-nhs-appropriation-of-rainbow-flag/#5c66a26ad544
I absolutely agree! Adding in the other stripes makes it seem like they were not already included. This definently feels “other”ing ESPECIALLY to me as an asexual, there is already a ton of that and makes it worse to feel like even when they “add” more diversity you still aren’t included and aren’t special enough or included already.
Though I agree that the rainbow-shaped flag can be and is being used without direct "competition" with the rectangular, six-striped pride flag, many people and brands are now repurposing pride flags and accessories as merchandise for supporting front-line workers. It frustrates me that people who might not be all that inclusive of the LGBTQ+ community are now using our symbol whilst denying its history. When people use the pride flag for supporting front-line workers without knowing that there is a difference in between the rainbow-shaped symbol and the rectangular flag, it feels very erasing.
I didnt know a lot about this "progress" flag before this video, (I'm a transman from the U.S) but I know my gender therapist has SO many pride stickers all over his badge and he agrees with all your points.
As a trans man I find the new flag kind of offensive since it makes me feel like I'm not included in LGBTQ+ and makes me feel separate and not on equals with others
This is such a relief. THANK YOU! I thought maybe I was the only one who disliked it. And maybe I'm whiny, but why are there black and brown stripes but no acknowledgement of autistics at all? What, autistics just don't exist in the LGBTQ+ community? Talk about being marginalized. [end "sarcasm with a serious purpose" mode]
The reason for the black and brown stripes are for people who fought and where oppressed maybe including a disability stripe would be nice but if you added just autism and nothing else people would be mad your not including other disabilities
@@gracie5463 That was kind of my point. You can't have a color for everything, for every intersectionality. If you add extra colors to represent a few special types of LGBTQ+ people, then why not special colors for all the various sorts, all the different intersections.
I don't really have an opinion on this topic, I just know that I am grateful that this is the direction the movement is going. When I was a young woman, even showing the flag, as it was, was dangerous and pride was hardly a concept regarding the LGBTQ+ community. I just turned 53.
Non-binary trans person here. I really like the progress flag. While I understand that the original pride flag did include trans people, I also realize that trans people have often been left out and have faced more discrimination than cis-gay people. For these reasons, I think the progress pride flag is important because it is explicit representation and inclusion of trans people in the Queer community. I don't think the progress flag should replace the pride flag. I think they should be used in tandem with one another.
Yes, I agree. I don't get why people think it erases anything, its literally including more people because we have been left out everything. People don't understand that we live in a world where people are going to just see the rainbow flag and not think of anything else but gay, cisgender, white people.
I really appreciate this breakdown, as a teacher doing best as a straight white male, I’ve wanted to have multiple flags, a black lives matter and trans flag, and upon seeing this flag, I realized it combined the ones I wanted. (Also I had lost my previous rainbow flag when switching classrooms) as I appreciate your voice I hope you would still give your blessing for me having it in class, I’ve helped students make BLM shirts, at some point I do want to ask one of my colleagues what they think about the trans colors and see if they feel represented
I realize this reply comes very late, but I would talk to your students about it. I know I feel othered as a queer POC when I see this flag being used as a default flag fro the community, and if you have trans or non-white students, this could be what they feel too.
Honestly I agree with her saying it shouldn’t replace the original one, but I don’t think it’s inherently harmful to use it if you don’t have the space. Altought I am not privileged enough to have the ability of seeing the pride flag displayed in a class, I would’ve loved the one with the black and brown stripes over the one without it. Ik asking Lgbt ppl of color and white lgbt ppl about their thoughts on it might be awkward, but maybe you could make an exercise where everyone write their thought about it? Or you could merge it (the question) in your lecture.
I also think that the progress flag would be hard to replicate subtly. I know some people who aren't out enjoy drawing landscapes or making bracelets using the colors of the rainbow flag or their specific pride flag. But this flag has 11 colors and two different patterns, the stripe and the chevron. It'd be difficult to create something that means nothing to those outside to the community but everything to those inside
My thought is, why not go back to what the original flag was designed to be? Something to me feels weird that we lost 2 colors in the original because of color availability. If hot pink was more available, then they could have stayed with 8, and splitting the colors would have been easier because we still maintained the even numbers.
You worded this so perfectly!! I think this pride flag is great for specifically trans poc if they choose to use it, however it shouldn't be used replace the original flag. What's bothering me is the number of pride flags I've seen used to support the nhs without people understanding the history behind it. Which I do partly blame government for
I do agree with you a lot .I feel like it might be kind of a "LOoK We ArE sO InClUsIvE".I think that they probably were meaning well,but I hope it doesn't replace the 6 stripe pride flag.I hope it stays as a variation.The original pride flag is supposed to represent everyone .It represents all gender identities and all sexualities and orientations.I feel like it does kinda seperate trans people and pocs from the rest. It does kinda say that pocs weren't represented before.Everyone is valid and represtented.I do also agree that it is so difficult to use that flag.great video btw!
The whole point of the rainbow is that it's all inclusive. To add colors to the rainbow flag, is a massive redundancy.
Exactly plus adding new colours feels like they weren't included before which feels wrong
I think I've comment on one of your comments before.
@@fartedonmyfamlastnight2243 It's possible, I watch a lot of LGBT+ content.
@@junkoenoshima2756 mhm agree but it was meant to point out that these need extra attention im pretty sure, not that they are also a part of it because they already were. But if it feels like that then we should stop doing that :)
Yes but trans people POC people werent included for a really long time so adding them to the flag is a reminder that theyre still here and it is like an apology to all thoose people for not including them alot before, like how people wanna throw out trans people or how POC LGBTQ were opressed by white LGBTQ and not accepted
I don't like that the black is supposed to represent ethnic minorities and also HIV+ people, as it sort of inadvertently groups the two together.
Didn't think about this, but I understand your point x
oh damn, that's super problematic. Not a fan of that at all, and glad I learned more about it
With this one it's a bit awkward. I think it's come through coincidentally as the black is related with HIV+ people from an individual flag (I think I'm remembering right) and the black stripe coming from that one from Pennsylvania Shaaba referenced.
It's a coincidence that hasn't been through. As someone that falls under the both the B and the T the chevron feels a bit othering.
that was also my first thought!
Yeah. They did/do have higher rates of infection in many places but this is just... Directly associating poc with a horrific disease that claimed to many lives and can affect almost anyone.
As a black person who's questioning their sexuality and gender identity, it feels like I would be segregated from the rest of the lgbtq+ community because I'm black. Why do I need an entirely new stripe to represent me? Does that mean I wouldn't be included in the rainbow flag? But if the rainbow flag is supposed to represent the entire community why am I being singled out? Just because I'm black?? What does the colour of my skin have to do with my sexuality/gender identity? Like I get that's not the intention behind the flag but that's how it's being interpreted, at least to me anyways.
You make such a good point!
I’m black too and I agree. If you have two add two entire stripes to clarify that non white people exist in your community then somethings wrong
I'm white, but I'm trans and I completely agree with you. I feel like I should be able to feel at home in the rainbow, without the need to add a new stripe just for me. Trans BIPOC are already singled out and attacked on the streets, why do we have to single them out somewhere they should blend in?
@@soulgazer11 this!! ^
I'm not black, but I am still a person of colour and I'd like to maybe clarify that as far as I know, this flag is not used for another community, but rather as a new look on the general LGBTQ+ flag
LGBTQ+ POC were always part of the community and every flag, however, people ignored and belittled us, with racism still existing in these sort of spaces and people not considering how different countries get to experience LGBTphobia. The stripes were added not to say that we are separate, but to remind everyone that LGBTQ+ POC exist and are an important part of the community, it's used as a highlight, to remember that when we fight for our rights we fight for all, and we listen to everyone.
I am questioning on both as well, however as it stands I have experienced racism from everywhere, including the LGBTQ+ community, and knowing that even in opressed groups people still get to be discriminatory to those who are different it feels like an important addition to me, because it makes me feel considered when others use it.
That's how I interpret it at least, of course, if you want to express being in the community in any other way you're free to, specially if it reminds you as another sort of opression
my thoughts on all of this is that well-intended doesn't always = good
There is a saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
EXACTLY. I love that they tried to include more things but it just feels worse. They tried and it has great intentions but I don't like it.
It was made for a contest it was never made to be the new flag
The racism in the comments speaks volumes.
Couldn't agree more
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 6 band Rainbow flag covered everything.
sounds like something a middle-aged white man would say, and it really does cover everything. it’s inclusive too, and the entire community uses it.
edit: happy pride month!
cheese toasties you’re literally agreeing with them. Why the insult???????
I think the 7 stripes flag is better, but I mean, it's just my opinion and it's one stripe
@@lemonade9874 wait, what'd they say as an insult? and they seemed to be on the same side-
coffee addiction they said it sounds like something a middle aged white man would say idk it’s sound like calling someone a boomer in a way
Black as a symbol for those who are HIV+ feels off for me to.
1) its not been clearly identified (I had no idea black stood for HIV+)
2) people living with HIV today are thriving! HIV is not a death sentence, people live full and incredible lives
3) When I think of HIV I think of the red ribbon
4) It can get really exhausting to always see the reminder of the atrocities of the AIDS crisis and how we lost millions of people due to bad policy and political neglect. I totally agree we can't forget this, but it keeps the shame and idea that HIV is a "gay virus"
Omg please look at how much hiv meds cost! Not everyone who gets hiv dies from it nowadays but poor people who can't afford medicine do. (Simalar situation for insulin)
Yes! I’m surprised no one else has brought up that HIV and other sexual transmitted diseases can be passed on by heterosexual individuals as well! Adding the black stripe to the flag makes it seem as only us LGBT+ individuals get it :(
Thank you for the information
Actually, the black stripe was originally added for those who died of HIV during the early 80's when there was no treatment. It stood for all those who had lost their lives because the government refused to do anything until it started affecting straight people.
So yes, it originally stood for those who died from HIV.
Talk about tone deaf design. The flag has been made by people who have no basic clue of design theory
As an LGBT POC, the brown stripe honestly just makes me feel like a prop to seem more progressive.
same
Same here and I do not like it at all.
kylie katcarter thats exactly how I feel
Do you have any thought on effective ways to push towards inclusion symbolcally? I feel like over the years the rainbow flag has been increasingly become associated with gay white men. I've found it less powerful to me personally as a gay white man, as a sort of symbol of the disparity within our worlds and within the external perception of LGBT+.
This video itself is super great as it recontextualizes my perceptions of the rainbow flag by more voices. But I'd like to find a way to remind people of the broader reality of those who may need more lifting up within the LGBT+ space.
@@jsrodman the gay flag is all inclusive.
These people are kinda saying that the rainbow flag didn’t represent all of these people in the first place. The rainbow flag represents all people who are either not cis or not straight. The rainbow flag represents all lgbtqia+ people! Not just gay people. That has never changed and it sometimes confuses me why people see the need to change the inclusion of people who are not gay. Just because you are straight but also trans does not mean the flag doesn’t represent you. It represents all and it always has. So we should keep it that way.
There's also a green & bluish flag similar in pattern to the lesbian flag that some people use for gay men specifically, but it's not as common.
@@llinhir I totally love it and actually try to normalize it in my sphere. It's cuter than the rainbow flag in my opinion.
Aren't straights secretly represented by the + (all the other diversities in sexual orientation)?
i’m not sure, but i don’t think there’s any straight people represented unless they are not cis or if they are ace/aro
@@schiffelers3944 not really, the + is just a stand-in for QIA as far as im aware, straight trans people are absolutely included but because theyre trans, not straight
This might sound controversial, but the black and brown stripes are such an American thing to add to the flag, I'm brown and everyone in my country is brown, so raising that flag will mean absolutely nothing here, because everyone is brown, or raising this flag in countries with black people as the majority will also give it no meaning. The original flag was made to represent all lgbt people, not just from America.
yeahh omg
On the surface it may appear like adding these two colours includes lgbt poc who are involved in the community, but it reinforces the notion that lgbt poc weren't there in the first place, from my perspective I found it harder to relate in terms of coming out, accepting myself in my own community and in the lgbt community entirely, when the majority of my lgbt peers were white and didn't have the same experience with coming out as I did - simply based on background race etc. by only recently adding the colours that include the black and brown stripes - like you said there is no use in places that aren't seemingly white dominated - personally the lack of representation for lgbt poc will continue the notion that the poster child for being lgbt is white.
@@jupssubs Its like they're trying to single out the darker colored people. As a white person how I see this is they want to make the community recognise them more, but people already did. Its strange and kinda stupid how they did it. I just like to use the original rainbow flag, because oldies are goodies.
I think it's just to think more about the black transgender woman that batteled for the lgbtq+ right , we wouldn't be here without them and it's cool that they have their own colors on the flag ( sorry for the bad english it's not my first language)
@@StarEatsRocks yes but that would be in america aswell
I know the us has an effect on other countries but still. The queer community isn’t just struggling in the us and isn’t just developing in the us
This is the first time that I've heard someone mention asexuality first in their list of 'other' sexualities. It felt so good not the be an afterthought if you get what I mean
Isla Hooper ye i feel u
I’m lesbian and definitely not ace
But I noticed that a lot of people often forget that ace ppl are a part of the lgbtq community
And the fact ppl never acknowledge ace ppl upsets me
Yeah
Same.
SAME
Same
I agree, I think officially, the rainbow one should be the main one. All of the other variations can exist too, it's fun to have a very specific one just for your group, but I think having the rainbow one to represent everyone is the most important. Plus, it's a bit iffy with countries other than America using that one, racially, because Americans seem to think that their idea of race is how the rest of the world uses it? And it really just doesn't work, because for a lot of people, this idea of all 'black' or 'brown' people being represented in one group just doesn't work, the majority of people in the world have a darkish skin tone that white Westerners might consider black or brown, but they would more likely find their ethnicity / national / local identity as much more important.
Dude, that's a super cool point! I didn't even think about that. The rainbow is universally accepting, whereas the progress flag might really only be relevant in a few countries. Thanks for sharing! 🏳️🌈❤️
Also, is there anything more inclusive than a rainbow? It’s shows the spectrum of light, doesn’t represent any skin color or country or religion. And everyone loves rainbows.
yeah, it's very western-centric. I hadn't thought about that.
Race isn't a sexuality.
Agreed. I work for COC - an organization in the Netherlands that fights for equal rights for the LGBT+ community - but I hear how they're not going to change the flag anytime soon because it just doesn't seem to be necessary. The colorful rainbow - that doesn't represent white people, but just everyone in general - is enough.
I feel like the more we add to our flag, the more exclusionary it becomes. The rainbow is for the LGBT+ community, emphasis on the +.
Technically you could just call it the + community
Thank you. As an ace, people don't think I exist.
@@shia5394 Yeah.
I'm getting real tired of all these extra letters.
Rainbows represent the spectrum of color, so the same logic would apply for the very first rainbow LGBTQ+ flag, right?
@@shia5394 don't let those people win
I remember seeing this and thinking, “well if there’s a black stripe and brown stripe, where’s the stripes for Asian ethnicities and Native Americans ect?”
As someone whose Native American I thought the brown strip accepted us. It’s true that not all of us are dark but a lot of us are.
@@Redstar24_ as an arab i felt excluded, i'm yellow not brown. It felt like they knocked down other poc to boost their own inclusion.
I said this too, back when this first happened and my smartass mouth said the Asians and the Native Americans can just use the red and yellow stripes to serve double duty. I was quickly called a racist. LOL.
Rainbow Room honestly, I imagine they’d use a light cream or peach and maybe a more bronze brown for Asian and Native American people respectively
@@rainbowroom24-7-52 I believe this is an innocent slip up but that does sound racist... when I say I'm yellow I don't mean I'm yellow in the literal sense. Plus both the asians and native Americans have a history of being labelled these colours so to say for us to just use one of the colours from the flag is racially insensitive and puts us in a position where we're not valuable enough for our actual skin tone to be used on the flag. The brown strip is divisive and I hate it every time I see it. (the og black strip for HIV/AID I stan)
People underestimate the importance of having a SIMPLE flag. We need main designs that can be mass produced. This is part of why I was also a huge pro for the lesbian flag redesign (among many other reasons ofcourse). The orange made it easier to be made and recognized for anything from small busineses woth less ink colors available to big busineses that have more separate colors to use. This isn't any different. The rainbow is recognizable and simple to reproduce on ANYTHING.
Into The Void it’s literally part of the rules of vexilogy if you look on r/vexilolgy they will SHIT on anything slightly messy
i er am jfk unless it's a pretty mess, like tibet or that Chilean flag with gradients everywhere
@@eddie-roo yes well there are exceptions, but that lgbtq+ flag sure ain’t it
i er am jfk yep, that chevron is awful
I like the rainbow flag not because of what the individual bars mean, but because of what the symbolism of a rainbow itself means. Optimism and diversity. A wide spectrum of people flying under one flag for one cause. The cause: to be treated as equals in this confusing and wild ride called life without feeling shame for oneself. And that is why we call it pride. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
You said it perfectly. Yours should be the end-all-be-all of the conversation imho
👏👏👏
Great point.
Perhaps a better flag for your points would have a gradient rainbow rather than discrete stripes. The stripes focus many (not all) people's minds on the trees rather than the forest - "what does each stripe mean?". If gender is a spectrum, that implies a continuous variation, not a countable number of big steps. Then rather than fighting over the meaning of a given stripe and when new stripes are needed or not, we could just focus on the broader message of inclusion and fuzzy boundaries between categories.
The pride flags are bad. Make them all one flag that looks like ohio.
I feel kinda the same about that. Skin colour has nothing to do with lgbt+ and the original rainbow is already meant to represent the whole spectrum of lgbt+, therefore automatically including trans people and every other sexuality and gender identity and _everyone_ who falls under the spectrum, so adding and pointing them out separately doesn't sit right with me.
It's true that skin colour doesn't have anything to do with it, but the experience poc have with their sexuality and gender is gonna be different than a western white person due to cultural differences. In the white western world we have the binary of gender accepted as norm, as well as heterosexuality. While in some other cultures, three or more genders are more widely accepted, so obviously their experience will be different. Racism will also have an effect on one's experience. For example, I read this wonderful article about a black trans man. Black women are often stereotyped as aggresive and masculine, so before he realised he was trans, he had to over perform being feminine to compensate for racism, which made is so much more difficult when he realised he was trans.
Sorry for the long comment lol, it's an aspect of the lgbtq community that I'm passionate about, and is often ignored
@@tregenzat1178 A long with what someone replied the lgbtq+ flag is universal and black and brown races are not 'minority' everywhere! So the extra stripe is just there to segregate. Lgbtq+ is everyone who identifies with it.
I disagree that ethnic rights and queer rights aren't the same thing. They're both directly connected to systematic queering for the benefit of the ruling class. On the other hand, highlighting oppressed ethnic groups in particular rather than using a universal symbol of humanity (the rainbow) to express what should be done seems unhelpful.
Tregenza T all colours are included in this flag, and each colour can face un acceptance from any colour too :(
@i think i might have aids As far as I know, the reason for the inclusion of ethnic minorities was to raise awareness of racism within the LGBT+ community, and to acknowledge the unique struggles that LGBT poc have. Black trans-women are especially at risk of violence against them. I think that there's occasion where it's appropriate to use the inclusive flag; people seem especially tempted to use it now because of the protests going on globally.
this flag just feels like they tried to go "everyone is here!" when the previous flag already covered everyone
In the same way that "Black lives matter" implied that they aren't included in "all lives?"
Because neither of those is true.
Drawing attention to those who face marginalization from within the queer community isn't othering them, it's saying that progress requires we bring them to the same status cis white gay people have already gained.
Did it tho-
@@pjaypender1009 i see what you mean, but it’s not the same. a more accurate analogy would be if there was a petition to try and add a black and brown stripe to the official us flag. the implication being that “the black and brown stripe represents nonwhite americans, and the rest of the flag represents normal americans”
@@you_just no, it's not. The purpose of the flag of a country is not remotely like the purpose of a Pride flag. It's absurd for the same reason a straight pride flag is absurd.
@@pjaypender1009 I think you just dont get what they mean
“The rainbow is a spectrum” exactly! Aaah you beautiful soul, thank you for this video it was lovely to watch.
Glad you enjoyed it! x
I can agree with how nice it is to have the "this matters too" part, but the rainbow flag is inclusive to all and has been here for so long. It holds so much meaning and history to people of The LGBTQ+ community and their allies. So no, personally, I don't want the amazing rainbow flag to be replaced with that one :)))))
Amazing video Shaaba! And happy almost pride month to everyone 🥰🥰
Happy almost pride month to you too! x
@@shaaba Aaaaaaa TY!
If people don't support the "new flag" it won't take off just stay with the rainbow pride flag :/ we know what it stands for it has meaning and it has history just keep it as is :)
Guys. It might be June for y'all four more minutes for meee!
I think, from what I know, the color minority thing was a USA thing that started not long ago. Like... I don't get why we can't just bring back the OG flag with the trans stripes. Cause tbh I don't mjnd the trans stripes being added on the side.
visually i just think the original one's prettier. the new one just looks kinda messy and slapped together if you get my vibe?
I also don't think the one with black and brown stripes are pretty either
Yeah, the original rainbow flag actually looks, well, good
I also like the normal rainbow because now anything rainbow is also gay
Which is great because a rainbow isn’t always gay so closeted people can have something
@@Cdog-vl3gk right? You can wear your flag with pride without letting the whole world know. In Form of an umbrella or pin, necklace etc as long as it has 6 of the rainbows colours on it it's the gay flag without actually being the gay flag. While most people won't look twice the ones that are like you will know without you having to out yourself. Wich is how I meet some of my then (lgbtq+) friends in highschool tbh.
So no I wouldn't want it changed.
I mean the rules of vexilolgy says that only 3 colours shall be used, now the basic pride flag pushes this a lot but it is a rare example that works especially since all the colours go together, however the new one just doesn’t work the black brown just stick out like a sore thumb and the pink and blue stuff are already on there so with the new shades it’s just like no ew.
Guys, the flag is for ALL lgbt+ people, no matter the race, religion etc. Therefore we shouldn’t have to add stripes for race, it takes the meaning away
As a liberal, I'm ashamed of the liberal side listening to 12-year-old sjw Twitter users
@@otakumangastudios3617 those teens don’t know what they’re talking about
@@-inightmare-371 unfortunately so.
@@otakumangastudios3617 I am a conservative, let’s now fight.
@@BlitzDinkabooming ok?
Hot dog is a sandwich. Fight me
As a nonbinary person, I prefered thinking I was part of the 'rainbow' rather than having trans as a seperate thing. Not all non-binary people are trans, but some are, so it feels weird to see it separated from something that already felt intersectional.
Same. I personally don't mind being called trans but tbh I don't know whether I would actually call myself trans or not. This means seeing the flag makes me feel awkward
How are not all nb people trans when trans means not identifying as the gender you were assigned to at birth and that's exactly what nb is?
@@gaming_xiu8102 Yes the label does fall under the trans category but some nb people don't feel comfortable saying they're trans so they don't use that label ^^
@@enbypotato but trans isn't about comfort, that's like identifying as cis because you're not comfortable being gay, but you are gay. Nb people are trans and saying they can pick and choose is hurtful to trans people
@@magneteater6067 dude that's literally not the definition. The definition is not identifying as the gender you were at birth.
Thanks for watching and sharing your views! I wanted to make a quick note: when I first made this video, the use of the actual 6-striped LGBT+ flag to support NHS workers wasn't a common thing, but it's seemingly become quite frequent now. I agree, it's not very nice or useful to use the rainbow flag instead of the rainbow arch for healthcare support. There are more substantial ways we can be supporting the NHS (voting, funding, etc) and there are more adequate symbols that can be used that preserve the rainbow flag to reflect LGBT+ support and safe spaces x
Are people really dumb enough to think the NHS is "stealing" the rainbow? I think you'll find we "stole" it from nature, FML!
@@Stettafire um.... Did you watch the video??
She said it should be celebrated...
@@Stettafire No. They didn't "steal" the rainbow, they stole the precise shape and configuration of the pride flag. A rainbow is a separate thing that can co-exist.
More problematic is that NHS had started an initiative where staff who had taken training in compassionately working with LGBTQ+, and has additional training regarding LGBTQ+ issues related to healthcare - were issued a pin to wear which had the pride flag and NHS on it.
When "I support NHS rainbows got conflated with the rainbow pride flag those pins became essentially worthless in notifying people that "this person is an ally and understands your needs" because it became misunderstood as "I support NHS", and they were made widely, and now you see them on people who do not have that additional training, and have not been vetted as people who will provide a safe space.
On a more general level, yes, it's lovely to see pretty rainbows all around, but it used to tell me something about the attitude of the people displaying it. Not only are they LGBTQ+, or allies, but they're willing to publicly state that.
Of course we support the NHS, staff. And it's valuable to show that, and remind people that we're going to get through this, but there was no need to appropriate and muddle the meaning of a well known symbol.
I personally like that flag but it should not become *the* flag. The rainbow flag is good enough, we dont need to make it complicated
I like the look of the new flag too, but I agree.
I don’t have a problem with the nhs using the rainbow in a arch I don’t like how people are buying pride flags to use to represent the nhs
@Aputsiaq Malakiassen The healthcare system in the UK
a typical rainbow goes in the order ‘red, orange, green, blue, indigo, violet’. a typical (original) pride flag goes in the order ‘pink, red, orange, yellow, green, light blue, blue, purple’. a modern pride flag goes in the order ‘red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple’ so there are som differences, but it’s definitely irritating people using either of the pride orders to support the nhs to be honest
@@mia_crxn9397 the nhs doesn’t have a flag. kids started drawing rainbows as support & putting them in their windows. which led to flags with rainbows on being made which is fine. what isn’t fine is people buying lgbt flags & using them as “nhs flags” & sellers repurposing lgbt flags as “nhs flags” for profit.
O m f g yes.
As a bisexual trans person, before this progress flag started being more prominent, I felt comfortable using the rainbow pride flag to represent both of my identities. Now with it being considered to replace the rainbow pride flag, it made me feel like a part of me that I grouped together before we're meant to more separate and that with this flag, me being trans was somehow meant to be more important to me as being bisexual, which just isn't true. All aspects of my identity and everyone else's should be treated equally and I feel like this is something the progress flag fails to do by choosing 3 groups already meant to be represented by that rainbow flag and putting them in a place to look more important than other groups.
exactly its leaving out so much plus it a bit flashy im my opinion
Yea it seems like they are seperating trans and poc from all the others with this flag
ngl it’s also kind of ugly because the trans flag colors don’t mix well with this rainbow flag
it’s kinda just cramming different things together to try and seem more accepting, but in the process making things worse, i’ll definitely be sticking with my rainbow flag :/
I'm a bi trans guy, and I completely agree.
"Here! We added a black and brown stripe to be more inclusive!"
Mixed people, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans: *_ight imma head out_*
Thank you!
Though I automatically assumed the Latinxes, natives, and mixed people were all lumped into the brown (I am native btw)
Though I feel that race shouldn’t be included on the pride flag
@@tahraethestoryteller6079 I feel the same! And as a mixed person myself (black/white mixed if you're curious), I'm not really brown, I'm more honey-caramel color. It's kinda hard to hard to explain it lol, but I'm definitely not brown. Like- you can't just slap two colors on a flag and be like "We're being inclusive", because at the same time, their kind of excluding other POC that don't comply with those colors. That is why it is so important to have a simple flag, so _everybody_ is including. They're also excluding trans people, since that their implying (all though not intentionally) that Transgender people are a separate thing from the LBGTQ+.
sorry for this little tangent lol
@@tahraethestoryteller6079 stop saying Latinx, it's considered a racial slur
@@piretiris8223 why would it be considered a racial slur? im latina myself and im genuinely curious
@@ro4498 Latins can't pronounce 'x' the way americans do
Hearing people or seeing people always disagree with aro/ace being a part of the lgbt+ spectrum really hurts, because as some who is ace, it was such a big thing for me to come to terms with and figure out “what was wrong with me” and so many people don’t understand it and think it is fake. I shouldn’t have to include this but I’m also biromantic, but so many people would say I wouldn’t be a part of lgbt+ if I was just ace.
I'm bi, and I agree ace belongs!
Can I know what does biromantic means please i am still confused about my identity
@@ceoofclowning766 Biromantic means bisexual but exclusively in a romantic way and not in a sexual way. You can add the -romantic suffixe After every orientation like homoromantic, panromantic etc...
You can be Biromantic and asexual, gyneromantic and demi-sexual, aromantic and homosexual etc ^^'
@@painslut thanks for explaining that
Ace is 1 million percent valid as a part of LGBTQ+ just by itself. People who dont understand this community don't understand all that the flag and community stands for and represents. Ace is valid.
As a trans man, this flag has always felt rather, odd to me... Like it was telling me I wasn't *really* part of the lgbt community until now, and a lot of my friends feel that it's separating them for being asian, like it's saying they aren't as much a part of the lgbt community because they aren't black or white. Personally, this flag feels like it's separating us, and saying we aren't really equal
@@imahallucination4422 I find, being a trans gay Japanese man already makes me feel different enough, singling that all out by changing a flag no one had issue with just makes it worse. Thankfully I haven't seen anyone much using this flag more recently, but that could be because we're in the middle of a global pandemic and couldn't exactly hold pride this year. And no worries about your english, it was perfect
Am I like the only trans person who likes this flag lmao
Was the black and brown striped supposed to represent us east asians too? Because I always felt like this was meant for black, indigenous and south asians... I might be wrong because im japanese brazilian but I kinda felt like those colors were meant to represent dark skinned ppl and not light skinned POC
I don't really understand usa's racial categories
@@umi2751 the flag isn't meant for non Americans I think... idk tho
Everyone let’s just appreciate Shaaba’s courage to do such a controversial video: I think this one is even more than just general gay videos, so huge props
i like this 🏳️🌈 way more. it looks better, and i hope it doesnt get replaced
me tooo im hoping it doesnt get replaced
Yeah :/
I like 🏳️🌈 more too, Shabba said what I was thinking, it really makes it seem like people of colour and trans people are not already part of pride, and I'm a person of colour myself. The intentions were good, but it really can't replace our flag.
Also, I agree, it IS King Namjoon.
didn't expect likes...thx to the 11 ppl!
bruh my phone can't render the rainbow flag so it just shows these two emojis together: 🏳,🌈
@@larsswig912 my keyboard doesnt have it so i search it on google and copy it, at least it doesn't separate.
So I'm a pea and a spud? Nearly a full meal.
gotta get your five a day! x
At the very least, you're a snack 👉👉
Yeah all you need now is the sausage
Yus :0
People have called me a bigot before for saying that the "progress" flag feels othering, I 100% agree with this video.
I'm a trans person and feel othered by the flag for the exact reasons Shaaba talked about. I've never spoken up about it tho because I didn't want to be called a bigot for feeling that way
When I first saw the new flag I immediately thought "wait does this mean the old flag didn't include these people"
Yess
Exactly my thoughts
Tbh, it does. Includes trans. Includes everyone, less cishets.
But yes cis queer ppl or STRAIGH gender queer ppl, tho.
I mean the mainstream lgbtq movement has sidelined trans and POC folks. I don’t see an issue with making it explicit that they’re part of the community. Also, y’all don’t know how racist white gays can be.
It feels like "Look, it's everyone! AND ALSO DON'T FORGET ABOUT TRANS AND RACES" And I just. I already want to be in the flag, and I DON'T need to be on it TWICE! If you're a minority race, gay, and trans, aren't you on it three times?
The rainbow flag ALREADY represented everyone inside the community. It was never JUST gay. You might see people using it as just a gay flag, but I think the rainbow always represented everyone. The rainbow is everyone, you don't need to put them on there.
Kiki M. They meant POC within the LGBT community
yea, i explained this more in a stand alone comment, but i’m an asian trans guy and get othered a lot for it. i’m sick of it and i’m sick of being used as “LOOK WERE DIVERSE AND INCLUSIVE THIS IS A PLACE FOR EVERYONEEE UWU” like ok i’m just tryna live my life and pass high school, i’m not some social justice achievement badge
The black and brown stripe on the flag makes it seem like not all poc are now part of LGBT community by default. LGBT has nothing to do with race, its all about sexuality and gender identity
*and gender identity
Are you denying that POC were once excluded from it?
It doesnt bother me if they use the rainbow that's a different symbol but there are people flying pride flags in support of the nhs who if their kid came out and gay or trans they would kick them out and I dont think that's right
I agree, that does suck. There's a nuanced difference between the two symbols: the NHS rainbow and the pride flag, and it's tricky if people don't use that correctly x
Yeah I went through a little village where I have never seen pride flags before and they were outside most houses
If I could describe it. It feels like when someone is waving at you, you wave back, but they were actually waving at the person besides you.
Yea I don't think there's anything wrong with using the rainbow for the NHS atm. throughout history the rainbow has been a sign of hope and promise, first in the bible and then adopted by the lgbtq+ comunity, (possibly other groups as well, I'm not entirely sure). Because the meaning of the rainbow is hope, I'd say that any group/organisation/comunity facing hardship should be able to use the symbol to represent that
"The original flag has lost its meaning"
No it hasn't, we just need to remind people of its meaning and its long history. I do fear that the original flag is going to be erased or replaced.
I loved your point about a rainbow being a spectrum so it inherently encompasses all identities. This is such a great video, thank you for explaining it so eloquently!
As a white, cis woman, I have kept my mouth shut because it's not about me. But I have always felt resistant to the additions as I always thought the point of the standard rainbow flag WAS inclusivity, so adding to it really only confused the issue. Glad to hear I wasn't too far off the mark, even if my vote is not the one that matters in this matter. As always, my ears are open on how to be a better ally.
as a lesbian poc, *you couldn't have said it better.*
Hello my ratatoullie sibling
is that the noodle boi in your pfp?
4:07 Why would you need to add the trans flag to it when the rainbow pride flag pretty much represents the whole lgbtq+ community
yeah that’s one thing i was thinking abt. the rainbow flag is for every part of the lgbtq+, and there are also different flags for specific sexualities/gender identities.
It's like what Shaaba said about the flag representing LGBTQ+ people as a spectrum. So by adding a new section for trans people and POC, you're essentially trying to separate them into different groups, which isn't really the point (in my opinion, anyway).
Ikr
It makes me feel SSOOO so separated...i am a baby trans male and i feel like shit lmao
@@random6579 :) Gl coming out! The internet is here for you
Queer POC and trans people: Hello yes, we can't help but notice that we are often left out of conversations around LGBT+ issues and are also often lacking in representation.
People: *ignores this, adds stripes to a flag*
Queer POC and trans people: Umm... we appreciate the gesture, but adding more colors to the flag doesn't actually address the issues we outlined before...
Yes this is correct - especially as one of the top comments said that it kind of feels like we’re being used as just a prop for “progressiveness” which by the way I totally agree with.
Poc have literally nothing to do with the lgbt flag/community
“Actions speak louder than flags.”
Wish large corporations would take this to heart. If they used just a small fraction of their wealth to support the lgbt community instead of trying to profit off us, we could be in a much better place for lgbt rights worldwide.
In fact, supporting a cause is good PR, much better PR than just showing solidarity. So it would actually give them even more profits.
@@eMorphized To bad these mega corporations don't care. I don't typically buy merchandise because these companies feel disingenuous by tokenizing us by only doing things during June.
It's genuinely so validating to hear the asexual flag mentioned in this video. It feels like such a rare occurance
yes I felt so represented and happy
@@someone28833 Same
I'm not ace, but I wish you were represented in lgbtq videos more, you are equally valid.
@@loading8434 naww thank you ^^
Ace gang 🖤🤍💜
My school was “celebrating” pride WEEK not pride MONTH and a whole bunch of str8 kids put that (the thumbnail) as their pfp. Like bro... all of us are there. None of us should feel left out of the flag.
Back to my school story: I get it, they think they’re supporting us, but it’s wrong. I put my pfp as pan and proud and my teacher made me change it smh. She said it’s “inappropriate” and “disturbing” to my classmates. A kid and my class pretended to be pan (she’s not) and it’s so disrespectful ! I hate my school and I want to drop out.
What?! This is stupid pan is inappropriate? You're teacher (sorry if I used the wrong you're I'm young) is so dumb I'm for my graduation my teacher let me wear a dress even I was born in this awful body (male) and he was chill about it I hope he's ur teacher in the future:)
Sorry if this all over the place it's late and I'm not exactly good at telling story's anyway have a good day
@@Ghostiiie thank you and I hope so too! Have a great day as well! ☺️
Y’all are lucky to have a school that acknowledges pride
But how is pan inappropriate?!?!
@@Ghostiiie aww awful body? Don't worry, you can like anything you want and be a guy, I know I used to feel like I had to be a boy to like what I liked, but now I'm proud to be a woman who secretly enjoys armpit farts, where's no nonsense clothing, has short, manageable hair, whereas no makeup, never wears a dress, never wears frills or place of any type, hates magical girls and loves anything that includes big robots with big guns and big explosions go boom and samurai and ninja going at it in battle, but one absolutely nothing to do with a romance saga. I hope you soon find comfort within yourself, I believe in you ✊❤️
@@otakumangastudios3617 i think she’s a trans girl
Oml since they are already trying to change it, why not add the bi, lesbian,ace,etc flags to it??? Make it even more complicated, unnecessary, and ugly -.-
lgbtq+ barcode flag *facepalm*
I just wanna say, the bi flag is pink, blue, and purple. The flag had those colors. I wanted to point that out
it can have a gazillion stripes!
ahhhhhh but you see!!!111! just stack the flags on top of one another like some sort of weird Tetris abomination!
In all seriousness though as a trans person I do see the idea with it but I thing the better way of going about it is to rather than divide out gender identities and sexual identities try to push out more the idea that trans people exist as a part of the lgbt community as well. pretty much just the same points made in the video, its well intentioned but it really doesn't help anything.
Oh-ho-ho. You should see the polyamorous flag.
Another thing I think the rainbow flag represents is how lgbtq+ is natural just like how the rainbow is a natural occurance.
I recently bought the progress flag to display on my house during pride and protests, specifically because I live in a white straight neighborhood where people probably don't understand that the pride flag includes everyone, and I want to make them think about it. Plus I wanted to have the pride and trans flag combined in one in the hope that other trans people feel supported should they happen to see it. I do agree with you though, this flag should not replace the pride flag and everyone is already included.
The "new" flag is a little ugly... I get that it stands for things that need to be said, but (as a guy who likes to study flags) i find it too hard to look at. The rainbow is very nice to look at, and everyone can recognize it.
A good idea, but executed poorly.
@@dandaves9792 not even a good idea atp
the color scheme is pretty abrasive
Exactly! And this flag also has zero representation for the disabled members of the community. We're always forgotten about. I mean most of the pride events aren't even accessible to us! And when people do talk about disability it's always with pity. 'Hide it away!' 'It's a bad thing!' I'm disabled, it sucks sometimes but it's a part of me and it's made me a stronger person and I'd like to be able to show it without getting nothing but pity.
As a person with a hidden disability i agree with you so much! Why do people forget we exist? Somehow nobody talks about us and our issues!
It sucks that disabled people get ignored just because it's an issue we cant do too much about.
The only thing is I dont think it needs to be part of the flag. Just like race and HIV it is it's own problem and not really part of LGBT. I get the flag is about loving and accepting everyone but its really about sexual orientation and gender, not just any minority.
I'm not trying to attack or ignore anyone here so sorry if your upset =)
I completely agree with you there
I’m nb and gay and I actively use this and the classic. I use the classic more just around the house and the progress one on the exterior of my place. I do so because 1) it makes me feel seen as an NB in a community where even other queer people say I don’t exist 2) I feel it shows my active support for the additional oppression pocs face and 3) where I live, people are absolutely just putting NHS on top of the classic flag even when they are incredibly homophobic, they are not just drawing cute rainbows. By using this flag I can show that this is an actual safe space for people not homophobic people trying to take the flag because they can.
Huh?
The flag was made for LGBT, adding race and HIV+ representation etc just feels forced and is taking away from what the flags about. Sexual orientation and gender has nothing to with race or having HIV etc, so why combine it? If you start adding more and more categories to the the flag it won’t be effective at representing the LGBT community anymore. A symbol is only good at representing something if it’s easy to see what it represents, people are gonna get confused with what all the colours mean and question what the flag is actually representing, I don’t even know what all the colours mean. Also, I like how the rainbow is used to support the NHS. The rainbow represents hope, joy and happiness it’s not specific to the LQBT community, like you said, the rainbow flag is what represents LGBT🏳️🌈. copy righting rainbows is just as silly as trying to copy right the sun. No one “owns” the sun.
The only problem I'm having with rainbow representing the NHS is there are people buying pride flags when we've fought so hard for this to be a symbol of our community.
Also, there is a difference between a rainbow and a pride flag (Rainbows have 7 stripes, the pride flag has 6)
Other than that, I'm fine with it.
@@alyssap737 I think the rainbow only has 6 colors because indigo doesn’t actually count because it’s wavelengths are usually just purple and blues wavelengths overlapping
Just wait until elon musk or mrbeast buy the sun
@@Your_Native_Mothman yeah, I think they only made it 7 in the first place because Pythagoras said there was a link between colour waves and music waves and there’s 7 notes in an octave. (Could be Internet bullshitw tho)
I got chills when you said “actions speak louder than flags”.
oh my god thank you so much for mentioning asexuality!!! i’m aspec and have experienced aphobia in the form exclusion from some of my own friends so it’s really nice to see that some people outside the aspec community support us
I'm aspec as well and feel your pain. Sending digital hugs!
When people suggested permanently replacing the flag with these versions, I felt very similar to you. Putting the black and brown stripe immediately felt like it didn't make sense to me. Of course POC and trans people should have more representation and have their own space in our activism. But there will always be something missing, because aspects like disability or many others can just not be all represented. Except they can be. With all the colours that make up any other colour, with the spectrum of the rainbow which doesn't highlight or prioritise anyone but always says: You are included, whichever identity you have. This is for you as it is for others. I always had a hard time acknowledging these other flags as replacement and you put my thoughts into words perfectly here.
Bro skin colour isn’t a sexuality
💯
It’s for representation of POC people who don’t get that much recognition
@@11037_dr yeah but they’re not part of the lgbt community
@@audios.by.g yes but it was for minorities
@@audios.by.g I know you probably mean well, but really think through what you just said.
Do you really believe that POC aren't at all present in the LGBTQ+ community? Obviously that's a silly thing to think - there are plenty of people who are both LGBT+ and POC, and these are the people who face both racism, homophobia (or any other -phobias that apply to them), and sometimes even sexism moreso than anyone who belongs to only one minority group.
Essentially, the point is to show solidarity with those who are affected by the compound effects of intersectional bigotry.
At least, that's always been my interpretation of the flag.
As a black, non-binary, trans masculine individual I like the progressive flag as a limited edition thing, but the current flag is supposed to be inclusive of all and we need to remember that and drill that into the heads of those who don’t want to be inclusive.
I think the rainbow shaped, 7 colour nhs symbol is great, but when people use the rectangular, 6 colour flag it starts to erase our community and everyone who has fought and died for our representation.
agreed! (also really love your username!) x
@@shaaba Thanks!
Also the NHS pins are now getting confusing, we had a rainbow one for equal opps to show support and make LGBT people aware that practitioner is safe to talk to, but now they are getting very similar if not the same badges to say thanks for being in the NHS, I would be worried I would mistake this for the safe person one and potentially end up in an uncomfortable situation (not all Doc's are good with me being Trans the original pin helps identify who would be)
Honestly the NHS deserves its own flag. They’ve worked so hard, with so little funding, and they don’t deserve a repurposed flag (if people use the pride flag for the NHS that is)
hi💗 if you feel a bit uncomfortable about the pride flag being used for the nhs, sign this petition: chng.it/6cHvWzPj
I love the idea but i agree that the original rainbow flag includes everybody, no matter what and there's individual flags which are used, use them in those instances.
I was really interested to hear your reasons and I liked the way you explained it. As a trans and gay person I exclusively use the progress pride flad because I find it shows both my identities.
When I first saw the "progress flag" I just felt confused by it. I didn't understand why trans individuals and people of color needed to have their own stripes when I felt that both parties were already included in the pride flag. Plus, as a trans man the progress flag makes me feel like I wasn't part of the community before and for a brief moment made me question myself. Idk, guess I'm just not a fan. I think it's cool as a piece of art if you use it to being attention to the struggles of trans individuals and people of color but I personally won't use the flag, I simply don't see a need to.
why do lgbt need flags at all. Its because yall want attention.
@Grayson Land oh shit, im fucking dying. oh no. i think you killed me with that response.
@@sirhellhound3074 My man, I think you're in the wrong video comment section. Go stir the pot elsewhere, only chill vibes here.
@@sirhellhound3074 You know why we need flags. You're only asking because you want attention.
@@sirhellhound3074 Great your homophobic ass is back! Stop commenting on LGBT videos just cause you want attention! You are clearly pissed, cause you didn't get your straight pride parade.
Honestly, the progressive flag makes me feel less welcome. If it is separating trans people from the rest but not showing support for non-binary people, it makes it seem like nb people aren't included at all. I've recently been dealing with a lot of confusion about my gender and have started to accept that I am non-binary. Even if you say that nb is included in the trans community, it still feels like it's trying to separate trans people.
non-binary people are included, the white stripe on the trans flag is for non-binary people.
Exactly like not all non binary people identify as trans which just makes it even more awkward for them because it feels like people are saying: "Yes your non binary and you fall under the label falls under the trans catergory so therefore you are trans"
Idk that's how it feels personally but like honestly if I get called trans I wouldn't get mad just feel confused because Idk if I would personally call myself trans
@@enbypotato its important to note that the term transgender refers to anyone who doesn't identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth. trans is an umbrella term.
@@animatedbun-gaming3315 Yes but that doesn't mean all non binary people call themselves trans. They aren't forced to just because their label falls under the trans catergory. Maybe I worded something wrong in my last comment idk.
@@enbypotato I'm nonbinary myself and have plenty of nonbinary friends who are apart of the trans community. Personally I have never heard of anyone who identifies as nonbinary and not trans. They're a very small percentage and shouldnt speak on behalf of the entire nonbinary community.
As a trans girl
I just want to exist as a female that is part of the LGBTQ+ community. I just like the rainbow flag and don’t want to be separated from my LGBTQ+ homies.🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
Trans rights my people! 🏳️⚧️
Edit: holy shit it’s me 2 years later woah! But I think the flag is actually cool (my opinion changed, crazy). People conflate gay people with the rainbow flag and think of trans people as a whole different thing so as someone here replying mentioned, I think it’s cool that there’s more trans (and poc) visibility in the flag
I’m on iOS 12 so I have the ugly version of the trans flags that’s just white
Having your own flag next to the pride flag is always the correct way to go imo if you want to highlight your identity.
@@eMorphized I got a pan flag next to a trans one
🏳️🌈🧡💛🤍💙🖤
Hell yeah!
Im a cis white woman so admittedly my opinion doesn't matter much here but I don't like the progress flag; pretty much for the reason shaaba stated.
I also don't like the NHS rainbow nonsense. The NHS has a logo and people are now buying pride flags and flying them for the NHS, not for pride. I feel like we could very easily get to the point where the rainbow is taken away from us.
yeah its sad but we canr let that happen by just making a new flag
Of course your opinion matters. Your opinion matters a lot because we need straight cis people to accept us. Otherwise, that would be 're point in protests
*Claps hands* Capitalism is a bitch~
Companies are not your friends~
Dont worry! Your opinion matters and I agree with you completely
Please don’t feel like your race, gender or sexuality doesn’t matter. It really does.
As a POC pan, I have always loved the rainbow flag. It’s all encompassing, regardless of your skin color, race, ethnicity, health, religion and any other thing. It speaks louder with its simplicity because by showing none specifically, it actually shows all. As much as I love the meaning of the other flag, people can pry my rainbow out of my cold dead hands.
You’re a frying pan of color?
@@allisond.46 Finally someone understands my identity without having to explain myself!
@Kate Seal I don’t find it offensive. I just like the other one better because as I said, by not giving particular focus to a skin color or gender identity, it theoretically gives equal focus to all. That being said however, in the gap of a year between my original comment and writing this, I am more aware of how trans people and LGBT+ POC are ignored by the cis and/or non-POC LGBT+ people. I also realize that without trans POC, LGBT+ rights most likely wouldn’t have reached where it is at present.
Still, I don’t really think just including two POC stripes and a trans flag is going to do much about acknowledging the efforts of trans POC in gaining us of our rights. To really make people understand/ acknowledge/ remember what trans POC have done for our community, people need to be taught (by schools, by themselves or by other LGBT+ people) of this part of our history, otherwise I fear some folks might count this as special treatment. Also, even if we add the trans flag for gender, I don’t really see the point of adding skin color to a flag meant for gender, sexualities and romantic orientation. Not to mention, and I might sound kind of bigoted, but if we include skin color, why can we not add some symbol for other queer minorities such as physically disabled or neurodivergent LGBT+ people? Or say, Muslim or Hindu queers in terms of religion. I mean, I see even less of them in the queer media than I do POC or trans people or trans POC (which is not to say that they are well represented or even represented). And there are so many ‘variations’ of queer representation that we will always be missing one or the other if we do try to add all of them in a space as small as a flag or a pin or a bracelet. And if we do end up having different flags (again, not to say we are going in that direction, but I hope you get me), it would be just as confusing as the terms and acronyms are getting for a lot of people, even if it is helping another lot of people. Or maybe this is just me overthinking things. Either way, I personally think anything representing a community as diverse as ours should be kept as simple as possible.
However, all that being said, I’d say use whichever of the flags that makes you happy and more inclusive. As there are POC, trans people, and trans POC on both sides of the opinion, I don’t think you could go wrong with getting either one or both of the flags.
Note: By POC I mean queer POC.
Also, I don’t know if I mentioned this, but I don’t think adding the trans flag and these stripes does anything to increase trans or queer POC visibility.
@I spend way too much time on the internet So we area all equal members of the rainbow, but some are more equal.
By trying to be inclusive this flag actually just does the opposite. Adding the extra stripes separates Trans and POC people from the LGBT community as if they aren't already an important part of it, the rainbow flag stands for everyone, that's why it was made.
But the point is to show black and brown ppl matters and they’re so IMPORTANT even tho they were excluded from the community by white gays. And still face discrimination.
It doesn't do that at all, this is a dumb bad faith argument.
@@eypu999 ok but what about >other< ethnicities? Black people do are important, but what about indigenous and yellow people? They suffer from the same and were not included in the flag! The new flag simply deletes everything not pasted on it, and implies that both trans and black people weren't included in the rainbow to begin with
Wow ace was mentioned-
I feel so honored
I really like Gilbert Baker's flag with 9 stripes, the last one he designed. It includes the original pink and turquoise, and he added a lilac stripe for diversity. I think the meaning behind all the stripes is important, and what makes the flag amazing. It also looks really pretty and I wish it would be used more
Saaame!!! ❤💝💛💚💙💜💗
Totally agree, it's the one I prefer to use
Getting philosophical here, but the rainbow in general means equality, the opposite of chaos, and to add more colors to the rainbow metaphorically means you've got equality and a few added exceptions, which would make it seem like there's no longer an equality and it's just a list now
Oh dw it will never replace the rainbow flag. The progress flag for me is just a temporary thing--especially during these times. Pride Month just started but the Black Lives Matter movement is relevant today because of George Floyd's murder. So to me, the Progress flag is important today. At least, for these times, so I'm using the flag to mix Pride movement and BLM movement rn.
You can use whatever flag that represents your identity or your morals, or just these times. The rainbow flag will always be the basis of the flag and will be the LGBTQ+ flag for all time. Other variations are just there to bring awareness for certain scenarios. I doubt that any variation will actually replace the rainbow, but each variation IS rooted and made, from and to call out respectively, problems that need awareness
Thanks for sharing, and completely agree, I too have been using the progress flag at this current moment in light of the black lives matter movement, super important topically x
I agree
The rainbow represents a light spectrum, which has an essentially infinite amount of colors in it
I agree with what you said about being a limited edition. It's good and relevant now, but the rainbow flag is universal and timeless, and also a base for other limited edition flags in the future. Limited edition flags can become very prevalent in their time, and I'm ok with that, but they have a ticking clock of how long they're relevant for and that's ok. They're helpful in their time.
Walking down the street I literally saw ‘NHS’ painted over the actual pride flag and it pissed me off so much.
Can you explain to me?
Lauren James Explain what?
@Aputsiaq Malakiassen NHS is the British health care system
I saw a few pride flags during pride month and all the people around me just thought it was for the NHS and that made me so annoyed because the pride flag is used to raise awareness in a way and now it can't be used for that because people don't really know what it means because of the NHS
@@teganpilling it made me laugh as i saw rainbows in windows of known homophobes ,they didnt even know they were flying the pride flag.
also if its the 'progress flag' for the rest of the future, that kinda implies that we'll never get to a point where every one in the community is equal
True
It is nice that they are showing that if you are a poc you are accepted too, but a skin colour isn’t actually part of LGBT plus community
Love or hate the pride flag its pretty crappy for the nhs to take something that has represented the lgbtq+ for the past 42 years
Also they don't necessarily want to take it, the government wearing the rainbow NHS pins (that show someone is safe to talk to about LGBT things) have pushed it I think
Crappy for the LGBT community to 'appropriate' the flag from the Incas as well.
Rainbows have existed since light has. You cant steal shit that was made when the universe first existed.
@@sirhellhound3074 rainbows have 7 stripes the pride flag has 6
:/
What you said about only trans being represented on the flag is what hit me in the wrong way too. How about putting a bi flag on there? Or pan? Those are two identities that can be surpressed in a lot of circles. Why not add the non-binary flag when some of the NB community dont feel at home under the trans umbrella? And you can keep going. Singling out specific parts of the community is exactly what the rainbow flag is supposed to PREVENT
Just came out as trans to my friend on minecraft- so yea- it went well and she supports me
Aww (I'm 3 months late but) congrats ^^
I agree with you, I felt that something wasn't right but couldn't put my finger on what it was, and since I'm white I just preferred not to say anything. And yes the problem is that it make it seems like trans people and people of colours were not included in the classic one. (also it look messy, from an artist point of view)
But I'm not against it as a specific flag, like all the other one (obviously, seeing my icon), just not as a replacement.
That's because, for a long time, transpeople and POC *were* treated like they were not included by other parts of the community. Racism and transphobia are still big problems in the LBG part of the community.
its a very difficult conversation. I don't like the proposed new flag, the rainbow is fine. I believe if you were going to have a flag for the NHS the sea blue ish colour which represents the NHS colour scheme would have been better. Ultimately no one can really "copyright" a rainbow stripe flag.
As an NHS worker myself i'm honestly getting a bit annoyed with the clapping. A good portion of them voted for a garbage government. They have done this stupid clapping whilst NOT socially distancing, with multiple people that do not live in their households. It worked the first time and meant a lot to us, but now its just meaningless.
In northern Ireland our government LAUGHED when they turned down our payrise, after years of a payfreeze, years of inequality between nhs trusts here and in England. The very same hung government that did no work for over 2 years and got full pay.
Totally agree, thanks so much for sharing. Sorry to hear your thoughts on the clapping too - completely justified of course x
I am not an NHS worker but I hate the clapping and always have a little. I agree with you about the fact they voted for an awful government and are not socially distancing.
May I bring up babies and people with sensory issues? Though I do not work for anyone or the NHS, I do have autism. A thing that comes with my autism is that I have sensory issues. I have these issues with all my senses, but my sensory issues are worst BY FAR when it comes to my hearing. Sensory issues with hearing is VERY common amongst people with autism, and you find it with people who don't too. Babies don't like loud noise either and it doesn't help that babies go to bed around 8pm... that sound familiar? That's when they clap.
Also... why are people setting off fireworks? Especially now, when at 8pm the sun is very much still out and you can't see the fireworks. We have 5 small animals and they get TERRIFIED when the fireworks go off. It scares me too. Please just do something like donating money instead... this clapping does more bad than good imo.
hi💗 if you feel a bit uncomfortable about the pride flag being used for the nhs, sign this petition: chng.it/6cHvWzPj
people are actual hanging up actual pride flags to support the NHS and another flag which the NHS made during pride for lgbtq+ NHS workers which is just the pride flag that says NHS on it. this is what annoys me if it where a regular rainbow, or just the drawn ones that a lot of people are using, it wouldn't be an issue. A rainbow has 7 colours and the pride flag has 6
@@tigs8441 I signed it. There's another one that has more traction, too: chng.it/RsH64gWNNX
I wasn't really sure what was going on, so if anyone reading this is confused:
www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2020/05/06/should-the-lgbt-community-call-out-nhs-appropriation-of-rainbow-flag/#5c66a26ad544
I absolutely agree! Adding in the other stripes makes it seem like they were not already included. This definently feels “other”ing ESPECIALLY to me as an asexual, there is already a ton of that and makes it worse to feel like even when they “add” more diversity you still aren’t included and aren’t special enough or included already.
Though I agree that the rainbow-shaped flag can be and is being used without direct "competition" with the rectangular, six-striped pride flag, many people and brands are now repurposing pride flags and accessories as merchandise for supporting front-line workers. It frustrates me that people who might not be all that inclusive of the LGBTQ+ community are now using our symbol whilst denying its history. When people use the pride flag for supporting front-line workers without knowing that there is a difference in between the rainbow-shaped symbol and the rectangular flag, it feels very erasing.
I didnt know a lot about this "progress" flag before this video, (I'm a transman from the U.S) but I know my gender therapist has SO many pride stickers all over his badge and he agrees with all your points.
As a trans man I find the new flag kind of offensive since it makes me feel like I'm not included in LGBTQ+ and makes me feel separate and not on equals with others
@Kate Seal it's upto everyone's own interpretation, there isn't really any big things about it, I say don't return it but you do what you want
I'm edging closer to the admittedly odd take that we need to popularize a gay flag to remind people that the pride rainbow is for everyone
There is ones where its similar to the lesbian flag but blue
Otto blue and green. It is really pretty. Slightly reminds of toothpaste and gum though.
Yeah, the only one I’ve seen is either the bear pride flag with brown stripes, or a blue gradient one inspired by one of the common lesbian flags.
This is a great idea! I'd probably go with something like the lesbian flag but shades of blue or something like that.
The irony of it all is that no matter how many colours you add to represent the full gay spectrum, all the lines are ALWAYS straight! XD
🏳️🌈
🏳️🌈
Yeah, a real redesign would be curvy, zigzagged, wavy lines, or something; maybe a combination of several different kinds.
🤣🤣🤣
not when's it's flying :)
This is such a relief. THANK YOU! I thought maybe I was the only one who disliked it.
And maybe I'm whiny, but why are there black and brown stripes but no acknowledgement of autistics at all? What, autistics just don't exist in the LGBTQ+ community? Talk about being marginalized. [end "sarcasm with a serious purpose" mode]
The reason for the black and brown stripes are for people who fought and where oppressed maybe including a disability stripe would be nice but if you added just autism and nothing else people would be mad your not including other disabilities
Because autism has nothing to do with lgbtq+. They can’t have a color for everyone born with disabilities and such.
@@gracie5463 That was kind of my point. You can't have a color for everything, for every intersectionality. If you add extra colors to represent a few special types of LGBTQ+ people, then why not special colors for all the various sorts, all the different intersections.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" the video
I don't really have an opinion on this topic, I just know that I am grateful that this is the direction the movement is going. When I was a young woman, even showing the flag, as it was, was dangerous and pride was hardly a concept regarding the LGBTQ+ community. I just turned 53.
Non-binary trans person here. I really like the progress flag. While I understand that the original pride flag did include trans people, I also realize that trans people have often been left out and have faced more discrimination than cis-gay people. For these reasons, I think the progress pride flag is important because it is explicit representation and inclusion of trans people in the Queer community. I don't think the progress flag should replace the pride flag. I think they should be used in tandem with one another.
Yes, I agree. I don't get why people think it erases anything, its literally including more people because we have been left out everything. People don't understand that we live in a world where people are going to just see the rainbow flag and not think of anything else but gay, cisgender, white people.
I really appreciate this breakdown, as a teacher doing best as a straight white male, I’ve wanted to have multiple flags, a black lives matter and trans flag, and upon seeing this flag, I realized it combined the ones I wanted. (Also I had lost my previous rainbow flag when switching classrooms) as I appreciate your voice I hope you would still give your blessing for me having it in class, I’ve helped students make BLM shirts, at some point I do want to ask one of my colleagues what they think about the trans colors and see if they feel represented
I realize this reply comes very late, but I would talk to your students about it. I know I feel othered as a queer POC when I see this flag being used as a default flag fro the community, and if you have trans or non-white students, this could be what they feel too.
Honestly I agree with her saying it shouldn’t replace the original one, but I don’t think it’s inherently harmful to use it if you don’t have the space. Altought I am not privileged enough to have the ability of seeing the pride flag displayed in a class, I would’ve loved the one with the black and brown stripes over the one without it.
Ik asking Lgbt ppl of color and white lgbt ppl about their thoughts on it might be awkward, but maybe you could make an exercise where everyone write their thought about it?
Or you could merge it (the question) in your lecture.
I also think that the progress flag would be hard to replicate subtly. I know some people who aren't out enjoy drawing landscapes or making bracelets using the colors of the rainbow flag or their specific pride flag. But this flag has 11 colors and two different patterns, the stripe and the chevron. It'd be difficult to create something that means nothing to those outside to the community but everything to those inside
i like how in the badround it says
DONT GROW UP
IT'S A TRAP
The LGBT sandwich: lettuce, guacamole, bacon, and tomato.
Don’t forget the + sauce !
Now I'm hungry and it's 5 hours too late for a midnight snack DX
@@bandamani right in time for an early breakfast though? XD
Never been more proud to be bacon
I'm lettuce and sauce!
Hey! I’d like to say that as a trans person, I completely hate the new flag, the rainbow is much prettier anyway
My thought is, why not go back to what the original flag was designed to be? Something to me feels weird that we lost 2 colors in the original because of color availability. If hot pink was more available, then they could have stayed with 8, and splitting the colors would have been easier because we still maintained the even numbers.
You worded this so perfectly!! I think this pride flag is great for specifically trans poc if they choose to use it, however it shouldn't be used replace the original flag. What's bothering me is the number of pride flags I've seen used to support the nhs without people understanding the history behind it. Which I do partly blame government for
Fair, and agreed! x
She said ace and bi one right after the other and soon said non-binary and so my picture is the unrepresented trio 😂
I'm bi and non binary
@@jonahdavis6917 sameeee
I do agree with you a lot .I feel like it might be kind of a "LOoK We ArE sO InClUsIvE".I think that they probably were meaning well,but I hope it doesn't replace the 6 stripe pride flag.I hope it stays as a variation.The original pride flag is supposed to represent everyone .It represents all gender identities and all sexualities and orientations.I feel like it does kinda seperate trans people and pocs from the rest. It does kinda say that pocs weren't represented before.Everyone is valid and represtented.I do also agree that it is so difficult to use that flag.great video btw!
I couldn't agree with you more Shaaba! 🏳️🌈